JD/NO v The Cure

The other day I was informed that a friend of mine passed away. I immediately played Chance.

This got me to think, who's music means more to me. Although I love both bands I find JD/NO more relevent and meaningful. Just MHO.

I have to think it's a bit like "who did you discover first, the Stones or the Beatles?": whoever first made an impact on you with their music (JD or the Cure) is likely to be the band you'd prefer over the other "rival" group. Or it could just be whichever you found more to your liking after listening to both. For me, I like JD better, but the Cure is still pretty damn good (I realize it's sacrilage to be a fan of the Cure around here :D )

Joy Division first, but The Cure come a close second (well their early stuff does.)

Gillian could beat up Lol Tolhurst any day

I listened to NO first. Having seen The Cure twice I am amazed out how good they are live. I always consider their live songs better than the studio. Watching Robert perform The Kiss brings up imagines of Hendrix. Having spent most of this summer listening to NO live I know that technically they are not as technically perfect live, Bernard's vocals being the weakest spot. however, NO is more intune to the audience. But as someone once said, you will never see a football shirt at a Cure concert. Likewise, a NO gig is more of a celebration.

But like I posted, Atmosphere will be played as they roll my remains out of the church.

I am a fan of both NO and the Cure, but I liked the Cure a few years before NO. Both seem to have different sounds, and I like both bands for different reasons. The Cure - better lyrics, better keyboard lines (with Rodger), and Porl's guitar. NO - the songs are more fun, the bass is much higher in the mix, you can always remember the members.

Originally posted by dub Gillian could beat up Lol Tolhurst any day

Agreed. i wish somebody would.

I saw the Cure twice for the Disintigration tour and was very impressed with Robert Smith's voice. Seeing them lived convinced me that he's quite a good singer. Although neither he or Bernard Sumner are precise singers, I believe that Robert has more control when it counts (live).

Bernard has genuine warmth and as I described in another post, sounds and looks to me like an average person living out his dream. I can easily relate to him. I've never seen New Order live, except for the 3 16 and 5 11 DVDs, and maybe some other footage over the years. In my opinion his movements and "dancing" are quite embarrassing. The way he sticks out his lips reminds me of the white man overbite (a white man trying too hard and it shows). I wish he'd practiced his moves in a mirror years ago, but if he's gone to far like this I don't think he's going to change. Regardless, I think New Order is an extremely cool and respectable outfit and I'm proud to be a huge fan. Back to Bernard's singing. He's much better in the studio than live. "Your Silent Face" is a beautiful song while watching the live version from Finsbury Park 2002 my girlfriend (she's recently been introduced to New Order) and I were looking at each other when Bernard sang. Very poor vocal performance. I felt bad for him.

Anyway, I like both groups very much. I can relate to New Order a bit better and Electronic is right up my ally. New Order is a very dignified group but I almost wish I hadn't see Bernard on stage because he kind of ruined my idealized vision of this ultra-cool group.

But that is what makes NO so cool--they do not give a shit what they look like. No "shell" or image or facade. Just play the music for it is all that matters. Bernard is not afraid to tell anyone to fuck off.

I have never heard of a band that experimented with sound and songs live as much as NO. I never heard the Cure say "this is a new song bear with us if you will." Nor have them play a song long before it has been finalized and released. Robert is a perfectionist. But perfection losses the beauty and art of a song in creation.

Ever hear The Forest in a raw form??? But we can watch Temptation being played for like the third time. TPK is another example. The epitome of tech/acoustic song performed live as part of its development.

Does not matter what they look like, what they wear and how bad they dance. Its the music. As band as NO sounds live is as bad as the Cure is in the studio. I am waiting for the new album and will fly to the UK to see NO live. And Bernard better suck on vocals or it won't be a real NO experience.

Originally posted by dub Gillian could beat up Lol Tolhurst any day

ha ha ha ha!!

What's become of that old pisshead anyway? Didn't he join REM or something?

(below - that's surely him on the right!!) :p

i just got my friend "closer" as a birthday present, he never heard joy div. before, and his comments were right on the money. "his voice is so bad, its beautiful, and that bass sound fun". roberts voice is beautiful as well, bernards got a good voice too, but i cant compare the three bands because essentially they are so different and i love all three for different reasons, but the cure's music has always meant more to me. at my funeral i want cure being played as well as joy division, but id rather hear new order at a party...

Originally posted by kamar khan i just got my friend "closer" as a birthday present, he never heard joy div. before, and his comments were right on the money. "his voice is so bad, its beautiful, and that bass sound fun". roberts voice is beautiful as well, bernards got a good voice too, but i cant compare the three bands because essentially they are so different and i love all three for different reasons, but the cure's music has always meant more to me. at my funeral i want cure being played as well as joy division, but id rather hear new order at a party...

Indeed, whenever I hear NO's singles, I always think about going out to a party - of course, it helped that once, at this goth night at a club in philly, the DJ played both TPK and Confusion -87. With the Cure, I think about sitting in my room with my 8-year old boom box playing a CD of theirs. Then again, I did hear Hot, Hot, Hot at another philly goth night a year ago, and it didn't work well as dance music.

I can't judge Bernard as a singer cause he didn't want be a singer.They chose him as lead singer cause they wanted to carry on and Bernard was the less worst.Ian was their singer not Bernard. I like some Cure stuff for example In Between Days,Boys don't Cry,Pictures of You,Killing an Arab,Friday I'm in Love.But they don't have New Order's tenderness and that simplicity which makes them unique.

To me it's a little strange to have a favorite group where for whatever reason, you can't analyze their singer.

Originally posted by Joshua B To me it's a little strange to have a favorte group where for whatever reason, you can't analyze their singer.

My favorite group is called Joy Division so I can judge Ian but not Bernard.

Yet you've made over twenty-two hundred posts on NewOrderOnline.com?

Originally posted by Joshua B Yet you've made over twenty-two thousand posts on NewOrderOnline.com?

22K whoa that's almost 16 thousand more than shug, that's a damn good accomplishment

Originally posted by Joshua B Yet you've made over twenty-two thousand posts on NewOrderOnline.com?

And 25,000 posts in joydiv.com

Originally posted by Hooky's Red Kimono > Originally posted by Joshua B> Yet you've made over twenty-two thousand posts on NewOrderOnline.com?

And 25,000 posts in joydivision.com

Is there a "www.joydivision.com"? Probably something to do with sex toys....or David Hasselhoff.....or Yanni, just something wierd that's for sure

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by Hooky's Red Kimono > Originally posted by Joshua B> Yet you've made over twenty-two thousand posts on NewOrderOnline.com?

And 25,000 posts in joydivision.com

Is there a "www.joydivision.com"? Probably something to do with sex toys....or David Hasselhoff.....or Yanni, just something wierd that's for sure

If you want to buy some vibrators click here

Originally posted by kamar khan roberts voice is beautiful as well

beautiful? not to come off like an ass, but it always sounds like he has a sinus infection.

barney's voice is pretty good when he is ON, and almost as good when he is off because you know he is out there DOING it for the sake of doing it. he sings his balls off.

So Robert sounds like he has a sinus infection but Bernard doesn't?

there are various resonators that have an effect on vocal timbre. robert sings straight from the nose, while barney does a better job at blending...

For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.

I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.

Interestingly enough, when I first got into New Order I thought Bernard's voice was a lot more pleasing to the ear than Ian's, a bit more natural perhaps. Of course, I was listening to Republic at that time :D so I guess he had certainly developed over the years.

At any rate, I think the fact that each is still around in some form or another (New Order and the Cure) is a testament to the fact that they don't know when to quit...erm, they are musical legends that will last a lunchtime.....shit, I lost my train of thought

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 Interestingly enough, when I first got into New Order I thought Bernard's voice was a lot more pleasing to the ear than Ian's, a bit more natural perhaps. Of course, I was listening to Republic at that time :D so I guess he had certainly developed over the years. At any rate, I think the fact that each is still around in some form or another (New Order and the Cure) is a testament to the fact that they don't know when to quit...erm, they are musical legends that will last a lunchtime.....shit, I lost my train of thought

The Cure lasting a lifetime :barf: they have been around for too long already

Originally posted by twist For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.

I went to see the Cure in 2000 in Camden, and everyone, at least on the lawn, was singing to "From the edge of the deep green sea" and clapping along with Simon's bassline in "A Forest".

Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you > Originally posted by twist> For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.> > I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.

I went to see the Cure in 2000 in Camden, and everyone, at least on the lawn, was singing to "From the edge of the deep green sea" and clapping along with Simon's bassline in "A Forest".

Does Simon cover Peter's bassline yet ?

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you> > > > Originally posted by twist> > For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.> > > > I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.>

I went to see the Cure in 2000 in Camden, and everyone, at least on the lawn, was singing to "From the edge of the deep green sea" and clapping along with Simon's bassline in "A Forest".

Does Simon cover Peter's bassline yet ? It was more like he extended the bassline over 5 minutes. But, aside from the Cure, hasn't that bassline - not the exact notes, but the pattern of intervals - been used over and over again by countless bassplayers? I am not coming in defense of the fact that Simon "borrowed" the bassline, but the line itself, in my opinion, is rather trite. Plus, after just watching Trilogy, Simon doesn't play Hooky's role of lead guitar in the Cure. He's merely the "bass player," but one that plays more than 5 notes.

Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you> > > > Originally posted by twist> > For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.> > > > I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.>

I went to see the Cure in 2000 in Camden, and everyone, at least on the lawn, was singing to "From the edge of the deep green sea" and clapping along with Simon's bassline in "A Forest".

Does Simon cover Peter's bassline yet ? He's merely the "bass player," but one that plays more than 5 notes.

Do you play bass to confirm this?

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you> > > > Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart> > Originally posted by Androgynous kid with a camera that follows you> > > > Originally posted by twist> > For someone that picked up the vocals to carry on I salute Bernard. Just list to Taras Schnnekennkoio when he attempts to sing ceremony. Anyone who did not know him would think that english was a second or third language for him. But his voice and singing has improved with every release. I think they are pretty damn good now. Unfortunately, he does not have the stamina to make them sound good for an hour live. But it appears that the experimental phase of NO live has ended and the celebration/party band era is in full swing. his vocals do not matter so much. You get to see THEM live.> > > > I was thinking about this while listening to the Apollo show. You can hear the crowd singing along. What a great mood for everyone. Never heard others singing at a Cure concert unless they were really Popin' Out.>

I went to see the Cure in 2000 in Camden, and everyone, at least on the lawn, was singing to "From the edge of the deep green sea" and clapping along with Simon's bassline in "A Forest".

Does Simon cover Peter's bassline yet ? He's merely the "bass player," but one that plays more than 5 notes.

Do you play bass to confirm this? No, but I've played other instruments. And, if you just watch where he puts his fingers on the neck and frets of the bass, he does play more than 5 notes, although, when he tries to play below his knees, he looks incredibly awkward.

Originally posted by sean there are various resonators that have an effect on vocal timbre. robert sings straight from the nose, while barney does a better job at blending...

Again, I like both Robert's and Bernard's voices, but I have a different opinion of their singing techniques. I don't think Robert sounds nasely at all, and I think Bernard uses his head voice a lot.

Originally posted by Joshua B > Originally posted by sean> there are various resonators that have an effect on vocal timbre. robert sings straight from the nose, while barney does a better job at blending...

Again, I like both Robert's and Bernard's voices, but I have a different opinion of their singing techniques. I don't think Robert sounds nasely at all, and I think Bernard uses his head voice a lot.

do your best robert smith impression. to get his big, intense, sometimes soaring vocals you have to constrict the muscles in your neck and force loads of pressure into your nasal cavities.

barney blends his head, nose, and some throat... he sings more relaxed, though his pitch control leaves a lot to be desired.