I need some info on social classes in England today for my half-term paper, so if anyone can tell me some web pags where to research, or give me some info in general I'd be very grateful ! You know, how it's been in the past, whether the society is still divided into classes, or if the gap is dissapearing etc. Thanks in advance !
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Is England still a class society ? Info needed.
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Where to start? Britain is a very divided country, it is no longer just divided by the traditional perceived class structure, but by a whole new range of classes. Those who have money are not necessarily the former aristocratic and even bourgeoise elements of society. Far from it. Money is everywhere and nowhere, everything has a value, both first and second hand. Society is bankrupt in places. There is a new sub-culture that isn't actually new but is a different slant on the old. Traditional working-class values have been forgotten. There is no respect anymore. It's fucking sad, and I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
jaysus, you've just confused the poor lad/lass
Anyway, yes, the UK is still extremely divided. Its getting worse yearly. The old system of Lower/Middle/Upper is gone, the economic system of A/B/C1/C2/D/E doesn't even work anymore - you have stinkingly rich underclass and poor middle class people
I'd use a Marxist analysis for this but since your country has been Socialist free for only a short time this would not be safe.
Now to be extremely controversial.
Tim is right, england is divided in many many ways. The newest way it is divided is religiously. There are clear areas, particular in the major cities, where people of different ethnic backgrounds are divided, not just in terms of where they live, but also in how they live, the way they think soceity should be, etc etc. The RAce riots of 2001 showed this, and i think it is just a question of time before such riots happen again. We live in a time of obscene politcal correctness, where christmas is banned in shopping centres for fear of offending ethnic minorities, and issues like this will ultimately divide society.
Economically, i think we are less divided than the past. As we move away from the manufacturing industry, towards a more service based economy, the idea of conflict between unions and employers will decline. Also, the "working class" as we know it will evolve. I think this happens globally. Government has become more egalitarian and redistrutionist, so much as with the cultural and social characterisitics of the groups that make it up, which, are un turn the historical legact of pre modern conditions. Well thats what i read.
Originally posted by twist I'd use a Marxist analysis for this but since your country has been Socialist free for only a short time this would not be safe.
Actually we're nostalgic about those days already. Socialism wasn't the bad bit, national and religious opression were. Also I'm at a traditionally leftist faculty. But enough about me, back to you people :D.
Didn't Prince Charles just make the news with some comments about people reaching above their station.
Originally posted by oldmonkey It's fucking sad, and I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
Well i am UPPER WORKLESS CLASS.This is hard to achieve and most people cannot attain such HIGH status.The idea in BRITAIN is to pretend to WORK,but cash in hand and other dubious WORK ETHICS are the NORM.I actually earn LESS per year than i used to PAY in TAXES.This is why the YOUTH have it sussed more than people of my age.But i am LEARNING.My dad worked HARD and LONG HOURS all his life.Had NOTHING when he died.But when i leave this MORTAL COIL my sons will INHERIT my VISA BILL.More chance of paying it off than me.I think DIGITAL MIKE is MIDDLE SPREAD
class like BARNEY.SHUGZV is LOWLIFE WORKING CLASS and JEFF is OUT OF HIS HEAD class but being AMERICAN this is no LOSS.They are several HARD working NOOL's here from BRITAIN
which is a CREDIT to them.But at the end of the day ONE has to make ENDS meet.When i lost my OPERATING job on MAINFRAME and MID-RANGE computers UP NORTH this type of work all but disappeared.Now i want a STRESS free work environment so i do just enough to get by.Hellish sometimes....3 months off in SUMMER!Enough time for a MID-LIFE CRISIS(when the BEER runs out).
Regards ROCKET MICK
MIDDLE SPREAD as in waistline, however DIGI Trace working it off me, the places she puts those picked onions 
Originally posted by oldmonkey I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
you have no idea how lucky you have it, tim. i'd trade places with you in a second. :(
Originally posted by Uncle Liam Now to be extremely controversial. We live in a time of obscene politcal correctness, where christmas is banned in shopping centres for fear of offending ethnic minorities, and issues like this will ultimately divide society.
Well I support banning any religious signs in public places, especially when one religion is obviously biased. And Christmas is one of such signs. Religion is a personal issue. And it's more important to back up this point of view in the wake of an increasing number of various religionis recently. Besides there is a great deal of people who are not religious. Religion must be separated from the state in every point. The state should just provide the religions with freedom to function within their temples and societies.
By the way, when they were composing the Statute of the European Constitution, they ommited eventually the line about "being based on Christian values". Because there are various religions in Europe and thus it's fair.
After your title page you can have a page with only a Bernard Sumner quote. Not quite sure of the exact wording since I lack access to the quote at this very moment but can get it quickly. Bernard was talking about what it was like to form a band back in the Joy Division days.
It goes something like this....
"The music scene was very cliquish back then. Magazine and the Buzzbocks were very middleclass and since we were working class we stuck out quite a bit. Ian especially."
Originally posted by Uncle Liam We live in a time of obscene politcal correctness, where christmas is banned in shopping centres for fear of offending ethnic minorities, and issues like this will ultimately divide society..
Where on earth do you live, that this could happen?! Thankfully we've just a tad more common sense in the South. Regents Street and Oxford Street for starters bare testimony to this.
Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Uncle Liam> We live in a time of obscene politcal correctness, where christmas is banned in shopping centres for fear of offending ethnic minorities, and issues like this will ultimately divide society..
Where on earth do you live, that this could happen?! Thankfully we've just a tad more common sense in the South. Regents Street and Oxford Street for starters bare testimony to this.
As does city centre Manchester with the presence of xmas lights , christmas german market , christmas farmers market, christmas fuckin works parties in me local already ! a big fuck off santa inflatable , xmas lights in me local asian deli , the imminent arrival of tone deaf scallys and their rendition of we wish you a merry xmas ad-infinitum , Bolton has succumbed , Wigan next week , City of Salford lights are up , Tescos have got the Easter eggs in and you can get a summer holiday booked for 2006 , xmas has hit the north west in it's usual fashion and that stalwart of Mancunian PC attitude Bernard Manning is accepting Christmas coach party bookings at his Embassy club .
And Santa if you are reading , litle garymac would like a Graham Greene first edition , The power and the Glory ..please :D
Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by oldmonkey I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
you have no idea how lucky you have it, tim. i'd trade places with you in a second. :(
"You never had it so good, the favourite phrase of those who always had it better."
Originally posted by Garymac As does city centre Manchester with the presence of xmas lights , christmas german market , christmas farmers market, christmas fuckin works parties in me local already ! a big fuck off santa inflatable , xmas lights in me local asian deli , the imminent arrival of tone deaf scallys and their rendition of we wish you a merry xmas ad-infinitum , Bolton has succumbed , Wigan next week , City of Salford lights are up , Tescos have got the Easter eggs in and you can get a summer holiday booked for 2006 , xmas has hit the north west in it's usual fashion and that stalwart of Mancunian PC attitude Bernard Manning is accepting Christmas coach party bookings at his Embassy club .And Santa if you are reading , litle garymac would like a Graham Greene first edition , The power and the Glory ..please :D
Nail on the head. The only thing that's missing is the Valentine's cards in WH Smith.
Originally posted by twist "The music scene was very cliquish back then. Magazine and the Buzzbocks were very middleclass and since we were working class we stuck out quite a bit. Ian especially."
hmmm what about the Beatles and the Sex Pistols? working class sons... :D 
We`re a nation of football hooligans,drug dealers,alcoholics and arseholes-and thats just the upper classes! 
Originally posted by Pizda > Originally posted by AgentWood> > > > Originally posted by oldmonkey> I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
you have no idea how lucky you have it, tim. i'd trade places with you in a second. :(
"You never had it so good, the favourite phrase of those who always had it better."
yeah, our healthcare system rocks, man.
and our inner cities. off the chain!
and things are only bound to get better over the next four years! i'm poopin' out sunshine!
Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by Pizda> > > > Originally posted by AgentWood> > > > > > > Originally posted by oldmonkey> > > I for one would get out tomorrow if I could.
you have no idea how lucky you have it, tim. i'd trade places with you in a second. :(
"You never had it so good, the favourite phrase of those who always had it better."
yeah, our healthcare system rocks, man.
and our inner cities. off the chain!
and things are only bound to get better over the next four years! i'm poopin' out sunshine! Actually, stuff over here has gone straight down a steep hill. I came back to Philadelphia two nights ago, only to hear about a school shooting in which three students were shot. The transportation system, already bad enough, might cut Sunday service altogether. And, the value of the US dollar is going down. If you check the exchange rate between the US and Canadian dollar, you'll see it's changed since the summer.
Jarvo,
Santas grottos and other such things have been banned in shopping centres around birmingham.
I always thought it was divided in Britain like this:
Royals Everyone Else The Irish Tony Wilson
:p
Originally posted by This blue-eyed boy that wants to be And, the value of the US dollar is going down. If you check the exchange rate between the US and Canadian dollar, you'll see it's changed since the summer.
Yes, the days where you would go up north and rape our stores and restaurants may finally be over, thanks to your government's extreme deficit and debt.
Many economists and businessmen in Canada are worried by the sudden raise of value the canadian dollar gets because it usually hurts our exportations and a big part of our economy is based on exportations.
On the other hand, many other people, like myself, are happy with this situation because it gives us a stronger capacity to buy foreign products and to travel.
Also, it will help our professional sports team compete with american ones.
Oh wait, we don't have any pro sports left anymore!!!! 
I've been seeing tv stories of more and more Canadians shopping in America for the holidays. It's nice that we may start fixing our trade deficit, but if this dollar decline continues, sheesh it may be treated like rubles. Oh well, our economy should show strong signs of continued after this financial quarter, but the media hype of the declining dollar seems to be a self-propagating story. The more hype of the weak dollar, the more and more countries switch to euros in their coffers rather than dollars. It'll be funny to see if China (whose economy continues to grow and their thirst for importing goods is growing as well) will un-peg the yuan to the dollar, because the purchasing power of their currency is hurting. Oh well, our companies ransacking and looting Iraq will give us some more money...
Once again I am amused by Uncle Liam’s “Analysis”. For many (and I suspect UL to be one) the “unfortunate rise in political correctness” is mearly a way of bemoaning the fact that you cant make jokes with Women/Homosexuals/Ethnic Minorities as the punch-line.
There is nothing obscene about allowing Women equal workplace rights. There is nothing obscene about allowing Homosexual couples to fair inheritance & taxation rights There is nothing obscene about allowing Traveller Children go to School against the bigotry of local Communities.
The “banning of Christmas” is horseshit. From now until January 6th, you wont be able to escape trees, adverts, lights, tv programmes, products, houses all filled with Christian joy and cheer Just because some town councils don’t formally acknowledge it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but I (after Liam) digress.
The banning of Christmas and the like, is NOT the cause of Race Riots. Ever notice how the Riots ALWAYS take place in working class areas Liam? Just a funny coincidence that Race issues from Burnley to South Central are always (not nearly always, but ALWAYS) tied closely to class issues.
You don’t find a Millionaire White Banker bemoan his Millionaire Asian Computer expert neighbours new Mercedes. You do on the other hand, find people on the breadline bemoan their neighbours meagre social gain if they feel hard done by. Governments will play the race card any day ahead of a deeper examination of their economic policy. (As a Marxist Dinosaur, I must now clarify that to a reasonable extant anyone who works for a living weige is termed “working class”, Its not a term reserved for Miners and Steelworkers.)
Government is not more “egalitarian” than ever before, in social or economic terms. Id like UL to explain the basis of this broad and stupid statement.
Economically: Ireland has the highest rich poor divide in the world according to the UN, (Britain the 9th). The move away from manufacturing to service provision (the manufacturing is still being done somewhere “globally” lets not forget) is just a move from one form of conditions to another. Where would you prefer to work: a call centre or a factory floor? To me there isn’t much difference. Regressive taxes are rife as both countries take their competitive (but not efficient) place in the international market. Council, Water, & Bin Tax along with the move toward fees and loans for everything from health to education are the preferred alternative to progressive taxation. In Ireland & Britain, the rich are incentivesed with Tax breaks, the poor are incentivesed with a dollop of fear & a kick up the arse.
Socially: Both sides of St Georges Channel, we have seen the degradation of communities. Few people in urban areas give a toss about their neighbours (and usually don’t have the time to), people rarely walk on streets, preferring to lock themselves up in cars. Ireland has the most amount of playstations per capita IN THE WORLD. Im sure Britain isn’t far behind. Around the country a whole new standard of illiterate Muppet is being grown. Social space is negligible in these parts too. Architecture and planning is a matter of “how many can we fit in” and nothing more. Aesthetically, there is little to show in The Uk and Ireland – bar the architecture of spectacle. Yesterday, our evening newspaper explained that one property developer in Dublin made €1million a month on the value of 1 idle site since 1998. Most young Irish families are virtual slaves to property developers, both parents working ever increasing hours to pay off ever increasing debt that lines the vat cats via ever increasing property prices. Communities are empty because everyone is off earning. Racism is rife in the UK and Ireland, Homelessness and Drug addiction too, oh, - and lets not forget, that Britain is still a Monarchy!
These are our “modern” conditions.
www.who-owns-britain.com www.monbiot.com
p.s. Liam, heres a good place to start (its where id argue from were I a young Conservative)“the rich poor divide has increased, but the economy is growing to such an extent that we can all have a good quality of life”
