I could be naive because i was never goth, but i think joy division may be the 'godfathers'of goth. Quite ironic considering the lack of theatrics and they would not goths themselves but miserable bastards.
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The 'godfathers' of goth
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Jonathan wrote:
Discuss( Owen will like this one)
Who's Owen?
Having had a look at my copy of NME Originals:Goth, the first band mentioned are Siouxsie and the Banshees in a live review at the 100 Club. Many have claimed that they were the first, but some say Bauhaus. Who knows? Joy Division were considered a gothic band,(even Tony Wilson described them as such)
It's universally regarded that the albums which sowed the seeds for goth was 'Low' by Bowie and 'The Idiot' by Iggy Pop. But there are other influences as well (Black Sabbath, Pink Floyd, Velvet Underground, early Ultravox,Leonard Cohen etc)
Today, goth means Marylin Manson, Evanescence etc, but there's a bit more to it than that
Top 5 records to start off with
Bela Lugosi's Dead - Bauhaus Fat Man - Southern Death Cult (singer Ian Astbury joined the Cult) Marian - Sisters of Mercy The Hanging Garden - The Cure All Tomorrow's Parties - Velvet Underground (proto goth)
Alistair wrote: Would you consider yourself a goth Christopher?
Certainly not. I listen to all sorts of music,very few are considered goth:
Black Sabbath AC/DC Joy Division New Order The Smiths The Cure Led Zeppelin Depeche Mode Nirvana Red Hot Chilli Peppers NIN G N R Rolling Stones Public Enemy The Stooges The Ramones The Sex Pistols Aerosmith Manic Street Preachers Pink Floyd Motorhead Killing Joke U2 Sisters of Mercy Jane's Addiction Snow Patrol Prince & The Revolution Radiohead The Stone Roses The Libertines Oasis Pantera KT Tunstall Ozzy Osbourne The Prodigy Foo Fighters Franz Ferdinand
I don't wear any goth clothes (save a Sisters or Joy Division or NIN t-shirt and a black coat) and I don't wear the make up. Currently, I'm wearing a Snow Patrol t-shirt. But I enjoy some of the music, and reading about it.
JD are not goth in my eyes.
But funny thing is, that even The Chameleons are goth acording to some people.
Rian wrote: JD are not goth in my eyes.
In my eyes as well, the texture of the music had an influence on goth, but lyrically, they were straight and down to earth. Same with Killing Joke, another band considered goth.
I think of the Cure more as "godfathers" of Goth, and Joy Division as just a darker turn on the post-punk road that also led to New Wave and the embarassing Spandau Ballet-led "New Romantics". JD were a pivotal turn in that they certainly influenced goth with their imagery and lyrical concerns, but I don't think the average goth would see himself as a disciple of Ian Curtis. He's too busy applying his mom's eyeliner in the mirror of a seedy youth club to worry about Ian :p
When I think of Goth, I think of all that faux-Vampire bullshit imagery and Robert Smith-wannabes. Joy Division looked positively normal compared to some of the more gothic-embracing groups (thank God for that, of course) 
Christopher Owens wrote: Certainly not. I listen to all sorts of music,very few are considered goth:
Fair dos, was just asking :)
There's an indie record shop in Edinburgh 'Avalanche' where small contingents of young goths consistently hang around. It's like they're on some sort of 'goth-watch', with fresh waves of new goths relieving them (not in that way thankfully) after a few hours. I've never really seen the appeal of dressing myself up like a monochrome corpse! I think alot of them think they're being really "individualistic" but lets face it, they all look the same, talk the same, and like the same shit music! 
I really love meeting ones who claim to do 'black magic', it's like meeting a human from the 8th century.
You're not really wearing a Snow Patrol tshirt are you 
Get that binned mate, along with all their dreary plodding 'sensitive indie rock' records :D I'm wearing a Doves tshirt at the moment and proud!
Nah, JD werent the godfathers.The Apex of Goth though were the Sisters .A Goth`s dream you could describe them as.But then all the half assed copycat crap like Balaam And The Angel and, later, Fields Of The Nephilim made sure Goth would forever be a joke.
Alistair wrote:
Fair dos, was just asking :)
Sorry if you thought I was being rude.
Alistair wrote: I really love meeting ones who claim to do 'black magic', it's like meeting a human from the 8th century.
Aw no. Don't tell me there are ones like that.
Alistair wrote: You're not really wearing a Snow Patrol tshirt are you
And what do you suggest is wrong with Snow Patrol?
What 'dreary plodding sensitive indie rock' should I bin?
And you like Doves!?
Goth Incarnate.
Christopher Owens wrote:
And what do you suggest is wrong with Snow Patrol? What 'dreary plodding sensitive indie rock' should I bin? And you like Doves!?
Just fair warning, I don't find them so great myself, but slagging Doves on these boards will get you jumped faster than the frontman of My Chemical Romance in a Hot Topic.
I had a newspaper dated back to February 1980 with a Bauhaus interview where their leader drops that he really likes people like Ian Curtis and finds Joy Division the most fascinating performers due to their lack of make-up, fashion... all that fancy stuff. JD are very plain, that's what attracted him to them.
<-----------------How odd that I recently changed my avatar to one of Jonboy, with a quote of his from his Great Pop Things book.
Was The Birthday Party considered a "Goth" band over there? I know Nick had the hairstyle, but I'd never thought of them that way, more arty-type post-punk with stuff like Release The Bats, Big Jesus Trash Can, etc.
It's childish to admit that you're a Goth and it's more silly to let other people know that you're A Goth
I read in Marc Almond's autobiography how he wandered around cemeteries back in the late 70s, how he socialized with 'Goths' and, of course, he was a Goth himself in a way. Though I prefer the term Decadent, I guess because professionally and sprititually I felt closeness to the literary decadence (being the editor-in-chief I used to run a Decadent publishing house).
But what is that supposed to mean? 
That I had black shadows under my eyes and wore Bundeswehr jackets? Ha ha... :))
Goth Incarnate.
[darkgreen]Green[/darkgreen] wrote: <-----------------How odd that I recently changed my avatar to one of Jonboy, with a quote of his from his Great Pop Things book.
Was The Birthday Party considered a "Goth" band over there? I know Nick had the hairstyle, but I'd never thought of them that way, more arty-type post-punk with stuff like Release The Bats, Big Jesus Trash Can, etc.
I love your avatar and the explanation chit. Is this how Robert Smith looks like now? Or it's that guy from SM, Dr. Avalanche's helper?
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
[darkgreen]Green[/darkgreen] wrote: <-----------------How odd that I recently changed my avatar to one of Jonboy, with a quote of his from his Great Pop Things book.
Was The Birthday Party considered a "Goth" band over there? I know Nick had the hairstyle, but I'd never thought of them that way, more arty-type post-punk with stuff like Release The Bats, Big Jesus Trash Can, etc.
I love your avatar and the explanation chit. Is this how Robert Smith looks like now? Or it's that guy from SM, Dr. Avalanche's helper?
It's Jon Langford, of The Mekons, Waco Brothers, Pine Valley Cosmonauts, etc. He was indeed in the very band mentioned, though I think he also said about a third of the Leeds population was at one time or another. 
[darkgreen]Green[/darkgreen] wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
[darkgreen]Green[/darkgreen] wrote: <-----------------How odd that I recently changed my avatar to one of Jonboy, with a quote of his from his Great Pop Things book.
Was The Birthday Party considered a "Goth" band over there? I know Nick had the hairstyle, but I'd never thought of them that way, more arty-type post-punk with stuff like Release The Bats, Big Jesus Trash Can, etc.
I love your avatar and the explanation chit. Is this how Robert Smith looks like now? Or it's that guy from SM, Dr. Avalanche's helper?
It's Jon Langford, of The Mekons, Waco Brothers, Pine Valley Cosmonauts, etc. He was indeed in the very band mentioned, though I think he also said about a third of the Leeds population was at one time or another.
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Taboo # 7, still celebrating your BD?
Chugging Moutain Dew like it's going out of style...unfortunately, it's just Moutain Dew
Taboo # 7 wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Taboo # 7, still celebrating your BD?
Chugging Moutain Dew like it's going out of style...unfortunately, it's just Moutain Dew
Yo!!
Taboo # 7 wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Taboo # 7, still celebrating your BD?
Chugging Moutain Dew like it's going out of style...unfortunately, it's just Moutain Dew
Southern monkey!
For whoever put the picture of Duran Duran as Goth Incarnate on here. They weren't goths! Cunts maybe, but not goths. And I think Morrissey would have a heart attack at The Smiths being labelled as goths. Anyway, top goth songs/records to slash your wrists to:
A Funeral Party, Faith, One Hundred Years, Pornography - The Cure Voodoo Dolly, Juju, A Kiss in the Dreamhouse - Siouxsie and the Banshees Anything by Nick Cave
Haven't a clue who started it...
The Mission are my faves and :moon: to all you Mission haters!
Davey Druid and the Peagan Nut Munchers,used to sell out Stonehendge back in the 7th century, according to my sources-They all topped themselves before they turned 24 years old,in line with the rules of being Goth
goths have got into louder and heavier music now ut in the early days it was--banshees,bauhaus,cure some of my fav groups really i think siouxsie and robert smith's look with the hair and make-up must have influnced the goth look
I think a true goth band should be judged by its lyrics. My favourite ones are from The Figurehead by The Cure.
A hundred other words blind me with your purity Like an old painted doll in the throes of dance I think about tomorrow Please let me sleep As I slip down the window Freshly squashed fly
Those were the days. Utterly ridiculous.
geez, just remembered that awful fields of the Nephilim that kept on changin their name. to erm...Neffilim or something.
they floured up their outfits and hats at each gig with bags of homepride.
shockers!!!
craig's digitalwaters wrote: Haven't a clue who started it...
The Mission are my faves and :moon: to all you Mission haters!
the Mish. geez. that butterfly wheel song did well in the charts i seem to remember.
you're not serious though r ya?
The Mission weren't very good. Very dull tunes. Although I didn't mind the odd track. I got dragged along to a concert of theirs once by a mate who was a big fan. I wish their fans washed a bit more. They smelt mouldy.
John Cains wrote: The Mission weren't very good. Very dull tunes. Although I didn't mind the odd track. I got dragged along to a concert of theirs once by a mate who was a big fan. I wish their fans washed a bit more. They smelt mouldy.
and the Neff smelt floury
John Cains wrote: I think a true goth band should be judged by its lyrics. My favourite ones are from The Figurehead by The Cure.
A hundred other words blind me with your purity Like an old painted doll in the throes of dance I think about tomorrow Please let me sleep As I slip down the window Freshly squashed fly
Those were the days. Utterly ridiculous.
yep and the song ends with-'i will never be clean again'
figurehead is in my top 10 all time tracks by the way
bansheeman wrote:
John Cains wrote: I think a true goth band should be judged by its lyrics. My favourite ones are from The Figurehead by The Cure.
A hundred other words blind me with your purity Like an old painted doll in the throes of dance I think about tomorrow Please let me sleep As I slip down the window Freshly squashed fly
Those were the days. Utterly ridiculous.
yep and the song ends with-'i will never be clean again'
There's half a good album on Pornography. Songs like A Strange Day, Cold, One Hundred Years, The Figurehead aren't bad. Mind you, some of the lyrics are the stuff of bad poetry. It's a better album than Movement to be honest, which is New Order's worst, probably, although some of the songs sound better live if you've seen 3:16. Used to like the Banshees as well but I don't think they've done a decent album since A Kiss in the Dreamhouse, although haven't heard anything by them since the early 90s.
My mate who liked The Mission used to like the Neffs as well. I think he went to see them live. I think he wanted some free flour to make some bread.
your right about banshees.aint bothered with the rubbish they made in there later years. 1977-87 is my banshees stuff really
I saw the video for This Corrosion last night. Looks like the Sisters had just gotten off a marathon of Blade Runner and Black Rain before making that one.
