political question

GNU...walk away....I've seen them like this before....just back away smiling....tomorrow send her flowers and apologize for, well whatever you can think of by then. Do this, we may live.

check yer mail in a min bonz

Walk away? Moi?

I don't underestimate the people on this site one bit... remember, I'm the Bush voter/American who can't tell a washer from a dryer, so who am I to have an opinion? But if you have facts, bring 'em on... they'd be a refreshing and welcome change from the Bushitlerchimpoilnazi stuff I hear every single day. Dazzle me with your brilliance, people.

I posted in response to the original question, which, frankly, doesn't show a lot of political sophistication; ie, "the poor" should vote for whomever promises them welfare and a "safety net." My question: why should I, and other po' folk, continue to believe people who have poured billions into the welfare state with jack shit to show for it? Why do I pay thousands a year to send my kids to Catholic school? 'Cause I refuse to send my children to a school system on "Academic Watch" despite the fact it spends $10,000-plus per student, per year. Just looked it up, actually: $11,767 per pupil in 2000-01.

I do respect your opinion, Bonzette, and I defy you to find a personal slight in my original post; now let's tend to the original question.

P.S. Just reread the post Bonzette quoted, and for the life of me I do not see where I belittled anyone here. Sure, my respect for Mr. Campbell is shot for the old "they're all liars and Nazis" cop-out line, but my respect for all others remains intact.

While waiting for Bonzette, I'll share another observation: I'm supposedly the one underestimating other people, and yet who is saying:

"poorly educated...therefor too dumb to work that out....and also due to lack of education"

"All the poorly educated working class people..."

"Its a matter of intelligence and education."

"Patriotism works well with the less brainy."

"religious fundamentalism"/"old tyme relijun"

"I almost believe in segregation for the stupidest 10-15% of the population...or at very least cut their bits off so they can't squirt out the next generation of morons."

Clue: It ain't me.

errrrr in NI they ARE (OK not all...just the most important ones...the non nazi's get 3 votes per election) all Liars and Nazis

right down to public speeches on the need for "ovens"

And notwithstanding some fair digs on the belittling thing. You can't belittle stupid people....you can only belittle an intelligent person by calling them stupid. If you actually ARE stupid,s it's description. Saying I'm an apalling Bass dude would be belittling me, saying I can't drive a dog sled for shit would not :)

78681 wrote: Steve-o...rednecks don't live in Ohio...

they live in TEXAS...I get to see them all the time...

i'm tempted to ask what does come from Ohio....but seriously fear that someone would answer "Steers and Queers".

Bonzette wrote:

I studied politis for 5 years and it's what i have my degree in.

You studied it for FIVE years and you still can't spell it?

Steve Campbell wrote:

78681 wrote: Steve-o...rednecks don't live in Ohio...

they live in TEXAS...I get to see them all the time...

i'm tempted to ask what does come from Ohio....but seriously fear that someone would answer "Steers and Queers".

Devo came from Ohio, and that is ALL you need to know on that subject.

there are stupid white people who dress badly, listen to bad music, have poor taste overall, and like to yell EVERYWHERE! call them white trash, or rednecks, or dumb assholes... it doesnt matter.

to oversimplify it's all a matter of thinking is good mentality versus everbody KNOWS what is right and thinkin' too much is bad mentality... and Republicans are getting the lowest common denominator vote, which included alot of poor people... thinking/ trying to be rational is for "fags", you know!

I work with a lot of union people, and almost all the more immature, laziest, uneducated guys out of the group are all totally for Bush, they identify with him cause he is not some stuck up "liberal" snob faglover like Kerry... what kind of sense does that make. Bush is as probably anti- common worker/union than any president in 80 years!!! Bush never even had to work for anything... he practically did nothing for 15 years, and it is debatable what his first "job" was...

BIGINOIL wrote:

Bonzette wrote:

I studied politis for 5 years and it's what i have my degree in.

You studied it for FIVE years and you still can't spell it?

Thanks for that. I am one of those working class people with a poor education. (and in a rage- hammering those letters home, not really looking at it properly:) )

Gnu Odor wrote: While waiting for Bonzette, I'll share another observation: I'm supposedly the one underestimating other people, and yet who is saying:

"poorly educated...therefor too dumb to work that out....and also due to lack of education"

"All the poorly educated working class people..."

"Its a matter of intelligence and education."

"Patriotism works well with the less brainy."

"religious fundamentalism"/"old tyme relijun"

"I almost believe in segregation for the stupidest 10-15% of the population...or at very least cut their bits off so they can't squirt out the next generation of morons."

Clue: It ain't me.

I was actually making refernce to a series of your posts, i just clicked on that one. We could be on here forever arguing about politics. That was not the point of my response to you. I'm not here to pick over the bones of stuff, as above. We are here to discuss things, whether in a light hearted manner, or serious manner, but always with a sense of sarcasm.

My point about your post was, not what your political taste is, but that i found some of the post rather patronising, and undermining, not in a funny way. I'm not trying to have a massive argument about it. That's how it came across to me.

pumped full of drugs wrote: there are stupid white people who dress badly, listen to bad music, have poor taste overall, and like to yell EVERYWHERE!

One more vote for "people are stupid," then. White people in particular, apparently.

So, if people in general are so stupid, why can't the libs/Dems trick more of them into voting for them?

Bonzette wrote: My point about your post was, not what your political taste is, but that i found some of the post rather patronising, and undermining, not in a funny way. I'm not trying to have a massive argument about it. That's how it came across to me.

I'm truly sorry to have come across that way, but I am sincerly curious as to just what about my posts was so "patronising and undermining"? -- especially in light of the other posts quoted above.

Seriously, show me.

Someone else starts a political thread, and the one person who disagrees with the premise is the one singled out as being "patronising" and that's supposed to end the whole discussion.

Gnu Odor wrote:

Bonzette wrote: My point about your post was, not what your political taste is, but that i found some of the post rather patronising, and undermining, not in a funny way. I'm not trying to have a massive argument about it. That's how it came across to me.

I'm truly sorry to have come across that way, but I am sincerly curious as to just what about my posts was so "patronising and undermining"? -- especially in light of the other posts quoted above.

Seriously, show me.

Someone else starts a political thread, and the one person who disagrees with the premise is the one singled out as being "patronising" and that's supposed to end the whole discussion.

Then i apologise if it was the main thread that you were making reference to! It was not clear, and sounded to me that you were making reference to those that had contributed in some way to thread after. I know some of us were serious in our posts,and that we were only making light comments etc. trying to be accepted.

I never wanted to argue about it. I just had to respond how i felt as i know how seriously i take my politics. Whether as part of my job, watching my shit football team in the freezing cold (Arsenal), or having a general chit chat on here.

i know i'm oversimplyfing and stereotyping, but I tend to find that white people tend to be arrogant in America, especially poor white people because they think that cause they are "white" they are number #1 people in America and the world. and because christianity is the "right" religion and white people and amercians are the "true" followers of jesus they are the most self-righteous... no matter what they are number #1 and anything they do or think is justified, fuck everybody else. I'm #1! ... i"m white, I'm American, and jesus loves me! are not i lucky?

errrrrrr it's not like your beloved leader won with an 80% majority dude.

Stupid white men....hmmmmmm often wondered about that myself, fairly sure all races are capable of producing fucktards.

i suppose white folks comes in for it because of there collective herd force of stupidity. weight of numbers. the same can be said of "my" lot here....they get the blame for everything (even the 3% of stuff that actually wasn't their fault (these days anyway))...because there's more of em and when they take a collective hissy fit it fucks the country over.

And at very least you should have to pass a basic (and I mean basic, not fucking mensa....just prove you're smarter than your shoe) before you vote or run for office. Take GWB.....man refutes science as the devils work. yet has his finger on the trigger of science's most deadly, and quite possible evil, creation. He also leader of one of the most technologically advanced societies on Earth. you know what it's like, it's like those dweeb managers that everywhere has these days.....no clue about the actual product or function of the organization, but he's a trained manager. Anyone who's ever worked with one of them (OK, there be a few that are OK, they obviously cheated), has a word for them. And it's more than likely "cunt", although "chocolate teapot fucking twat" is another one. His willful ( I hope) ignorance of the things he's got to decide about is fucking scarey,

Quick straw poll for those outside the US....

Would you agree with the following......

The Us, by means of it's political speeches and even it's television and cinema output, seeks to portray itself as the most free of all nations, a standard by which others should be judged, and a great bunch of all round wholesome good guys who've never done anything even slightly dodgy. But yet, a quick look behind the "wizzards curtain" shows a picture of a place where freedom's not doing all that high on the agenda, and in fact some downright opressive olicies[1].

Yes / no?

And would it bother you less if they weren't so damned false about it.

And no I am not a hater of all things American, rather fond of the place and many of it's fine inhabitants...I just have genuine difficulty recconciling anyting that I understand as sense with some of what I see happening there.

[1]and that is DECIDEDLY aimed at both camps in the US...i've heard the loons on the "left2 over there. strange lot.

Steve Campbell wrote: errrrrrr it's not like your beloved leader won with an 80% majority dude.

Stupid white men....hmmmmmm often wondered about that myself, fairly sure all races are capable of producing fucktards.

i suppose white folks comes in for it because of there collective herd force of stupidity. weight of numbers. the same can be said of "my" lot here....they get the blame for everything (even the 3% of stuff that actually wasn't their fault (these days anyway))...because there's more of em and when they take a collective hissy fit it fucks the country over.

And at very least you should have to pass a basic (and I mean basic, not fucking mensa....just prove you're smarter than your shoe) before you vote or run for office. Take GWB.....man refutes science as the devils work. yet has his finger on the trigger of science's most deadly, and quite possible evil, creation. He also leader of one of the most technologically advanced societies on Earth. you know what it's like, it's like those dweeb managers that everywhere has these days.....no clue about the actual product or function of the organization, but he's a trained manager. Anyone who's ever worked with one of them (OK, there be a few that are OK, they obviously cheated), has a word for them. And it's more than likely "cunt", although "chocolate teapot fucking twat" is another one. His willful ( I hope) ignorance of the things he's got to decide about is fucking scarey,

Steve, :)

Bonzette wrote: I know some of us were serious in our posts,and that we were only making light comments etc. trying to be accepted.

I never wanted to argue about it. I just had to respond how i felt as i know how seriously i take my politics. Whether as part of my job, watching my shit football team in the freezing cold (Arsenal), or having a general chit chat on here.

I don't want to argue either, and I still want to be pals. Maybe more... OK, not more.

I believe you take your politics seriously and I'd love to hear your thoughts; the usual "Thatcher's a cunt and I hope she dies an agonizing death" doesn't count as meaty political discussion in my book. But that's as much as anyone will say.

I am disturbed by the elitist mindset that "everyone is stupid except me and people who think like me." Take an example from another thread. Here in ultramegaliberal Cleveland, the schools hand out free breakfasts and lunches all summer long when school is out. Why? Because, silly, those stupid negroes are obviously incapable of pouring their own children a bowl of cereal in the morning so we, the state, have to do it for them. Now who's being condescending? I don't give a flaming fuck what color your skin is, feed your own damn family.

(And yes, I contribute to charity above and beyond my taxes.)

Mr Campbell, you need to start another thread before politics tears us apart:D

Gnu Odor wrote:

Bonzette wrote: I know some of us were serious in our posts,and that we were only making light comments etc. trying to be accepted.

I never wanted to argue about it. I just had to respond how i felt as i know how seriously i take my politics. Whether as part of my job, watching my shit football team in the freezing cold (Arsenal), or having a general chit chat on here.

I don't want to argue either, and I still want to be pals. Maybe more... OK, not more.

I believe you take your politics seriously and I'd love to hear your thoughts; the usual "Thatcher's a cunt and I hope she dies an agonizing death" doesn't count as meaty political discussion in my book. But that's as much as anyone will say.

I am disturbed by the elitist mindset that "everyone is stupid except me and people who think like me." Take an example from another thread. Here in ultramegaliberal Cleveland, the schools hand out free breakfasts and lunches all summer long when school is out. Why? Because, silly, those stupid negroes are obviously incapable of pouring their own children a bowl of cereal in the morning so we, the state, have to do it for them. Now who's being condescending? I don't give a flaming fuck what color your skin is, feed your own damn family.

(And yes, I contribute to charity above and beyond my taxes.)

You're a happily married man! or not?????

Fair play. I understand (you're wrong though:D )joke. Have a feeling that one day, we will get to have a sit down, long chat, sorry, argument, about Politics.

Of course friends.:p

Steve Campbell wrote: Quick straw poll for those outside the US....

Would you agree with the following......

The Us, by means of it's political speeches and even it's television and cinema output, seeks to portray itself as the most free of all nations, a standard by which others should be judged, and a great bunch of all round wholesome good guys who've never done anything even slightly dodgy. But yet, a quick look behind the "wizzards curtain" shows a picture of a place where freedom's not doing all that high on the agenda, and in fact some downright opressive olicies[1].

Yes / no?

Yes. However, (1) I personally don't have any input into our television and cinema output, and (2) what the fuck are our political leaders supposed to say? When can I expect to hear you complain that Kim Jong Il's not yet come on TV and announced, "You know, our country's really a shithole and I'm sorry."

I do believe we are among the most free of all nations, and I have no idea about this "wizard's curtain" you keep babbling about. Give me details, man ... I live here, perhaps I could clarify your impression. On another forum, challenged about his view of diminishing rights, some git was complaining that he can no longer take a cigarette lighter on an airliner. Well, sorry, but before you blame Bushitler, why not take a look at the real religious fundamentalist sitting next to your trying to light his fucking shoe bombs? There is real oppression in the world and people would rather jabber about evil Bush, who will be out of office in 2009, period.

And don't give me the usual "I like individual Americans, but I hate America" cop-out.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Maybe one of you smarties like Agentwood or Blue Order can sort this one out for me, but why is it that so many Republicans supporters are people like poor farmers and wage laborers, even though Democrats are more in favor of welfare and a social security net that would help support and subsidize those same poor people! Guess it just proves that family values and olde tyme relijun are more important to some people than having enough money to support their non-aborted children.

*wades into the thick of the discussion*

I'm Republican on my voting card, but not,uh, one of those "old tyme relijun" types. If you really want to get down to what I am, then "Conservative Centrist" is a bit more appropriate title. I vote according to my logic, and the best path I feel is necessary that follows my own personal code of ethics. Occasionally, I've had to go with the lesser of two questionable candidates in elections.

I'm not a fan of welfare because of the working class area I grew up in and seeing people sitting idle-like on the check they got every first of the month and not doing anything further with themselves. Generations have begot generations who have sat on their checks, and don't look for gainful employment. Rare is an instance someone would actually try to make a useful member of themselves from that kind of mucked "we'll pay you for being bone idle" thing. No amount of scholarship nor outreach nor caring can change people content with what they've been given.

I don't particularily enjoy the hardline " let's make this government one religion-based pool" either. I voted to keep Bush in office for reasons that were based on strategy not weeping sentimentalism for some ignorant bans on freedoms I think the government has no right to say yea or nay to.

I don't agree with any radical right or left wing politics, and I certainly don't agree to endless bloodletting on either side all in the sake of "We're the better party". Too much of the government has become "Let's have a fight and not get anything done because we're too full of ourselves", but there are people making differences, and conservative level-headed people at that.

The blame does not fall (solely) to the people who vote, but also the people who don't vote. Our leadership isn't based on a mandatory 100%. We get such pitiful turnouts for local, state and national elections it is sickening! It's not a lack of education, it's a lack of caring. People think their problems will be solved by someone else, or they just don't care enough to stand up and say "That's not right, let's make a change there".

It's never really mattered (in essence) who we've had in office, as they all make bumbling mistakes and fools of themselves. It's more like the people have waned from caring, and in that, people just don't work as hard to keep everything in checks and balances. People forget their rights, people forget this is a nation for the people, by the people - and they screw themselves by not pitching in to help that along.

"You know, our country's really a shithole and I'm sorry."

Y'konw....the first elected leader who says that gets my vote to get re-elected.

not having a fight about this...you don't see it the way we do out here. Fair point about korea....but I don't have korea korea korea korea korea on my tv all day.....again you cops the wort of the reaction by being there more.

Melly....what you said about them spending all day fighting instead of doing anything.....welcome to how we do things in NI :D

melly (msh) wrote:

I'm Republican on my voting card, but not,uh, one of those "old tyme relijun" types. If you really want to get down to what I am, then "Conservative Centrist" is a bit more appropriate title. I vote according to my logic, and the best path I feel is necessary that follows my own personal code of ethics.

All I can think of when you guys talk about that election I hink of that episode of south park where the conculde that very often most elections come down to a choice between a douche and a turd.

Of course we're chums, Bonzette. You're welcome to come over any time ... I'll work out some way to smuggle you into our repressive country.

I would say you're wrong, but I still have no idea where you stand, really. It seems you do social work, so that's a start.

I am sorry to see so much cynicism and self-loathing, especially among the younger set. I know to get along as a white American these days I'm supposed to say AmeriKKKa is evil, white people are stupid, etc. But I won't. I see these high school kids skipping out of school to hit the "Drive Out the Bush Regime" rally, where the organizers are wearing their damn hammer and sickle badges (true story). These kids are young, they're sincere about their feelings, and they're being played by the Workers World Party. They've never lived in anything but total freedom and prosperity and squander it by hating themselves and their own culture.

And Steve, you're still a pussy. Answer my question.

Steve Campbell wrote: "You know, our country's really a shithole and I'm sorry."

Y'konw....the first elected leader who says that gets my vote to get re-elected.

not having a fight about this...you don't see it the way we do out here. Fair point about korea....but I don't have korea korea korea korea korea on my tv all day.....again you cops the wort of the reaction by being there more.

Melly....what you said about them spending all day fighting instead of doing anything.....welcome to how we do things in NI :D

Steve, you got mail baby!

Bonz

Steve Campbell wrote: "You know, our country's really a shithole and I'm sorry."

Y'konw....the first elected leader who says that gets my vote to get re-elected.

not having a fight about this...you don't see it the way we do out here. Fair point about korea....but I don't have korea korea korea korea korea on my tv all day.....again you cops the wort of the reaction by being there more.

But see, Campo, that's my point. Iran, Syria, North Korea, Iraq, Zimbabwe, etc. and all their respective tyrants all get a pass, and why? 'Cause you don't have to hear about them, and so they don't have any bearing on how you feel about yourself. Tyranny is fine because it's self-contained within its own borders, but arrogance -- that's unforgivable and exportable.

eh?

Steve Campbell wrote: eh?

I've got the giggles-seriously! I can't stop laughing.