Where were you on September 11th 2001 when you heard the news?

in work.

I bought a copy of the M.E.N which had a small article about it, as it was breaking news.

I kept that newspaper.

Not beinbg funny but seeing as it happened on a Tuesday surely 90% of people's answers are gonna be "at my work" or "on my way to work" depending on which side of the Atlantic they live on.

For the record, I was at my work.

I was at work, noticed people watching the TV in the canteen, but it looked like a trailer for an action film and I didn't take much notice.

When I went back to my office everybody was talking about it and it took a while before I realised there had been a major incident.

I was in the lobby of a hotel in Monaco, waiting for a hire car to be delivered.

There was a big television in the reception area, showing Sky news. The place I was staying had no TV, so I was glad of the chance to catch up on the news. Initially, I thought the channel had changed to an adventure film – they had interrupted the broadcast to show the live footage from New York. When I realised what had happened, I grabbed a guy who was walking past and said ‘look’. Initially, he reacted like anyone else would when a stranger grabs him in a hotel lobby but as soon as he saw the TV he stopped and stood beside me. This was repeated may times and soon the area around the TV was full of people. I stood there for about an hour, then realised that the hire car would not be coming. I left the hotel and went to a local bar where I sat and watched for a while longer – until the second tower collapsed. The streets of Monaco were silent, everyone was just sat open-mouthed in front of the television.

The strangest thing about it for me was that I was supposed to be in NYC that day – I was all set to book the tickets and then changed my mind at the last minute.

I am the one in ten

Work experience at The Irish News.

Heard a huge commotion, went into the news office, and saw all the journalists gathered around the TV.

Diamond White wrote: I am the one in ten

I thought it was "one in three" sailor?

In a meeting at TGI's; we saw the second plane hit the tower live on CNN. What else can you say? It was the most awful and most unbelievable thing I have ever seen; and I hope I never do again.

I was in Comet in Huddersfield shopping for a new tv, every tv was showing it, put me off buying one on that day.

I was at work. They actually sent us home.

I was in bed. I woke up, watched neighbours, and it came on BBC.

Uncle Liam wrote: I was in bed. I woke up, watched neighbours, and it came on BBC.

liar! you missed out the "raided the fridge" bit.

If only. I do remember having a curry later though. After i got quite hammered in the pub.

Strangely, I was in the same place as when the Oklahoma bombings happened, at the home where I was a nanny. Without a television and trying to calm a 5 year old.

I was on a Risk Assessment course for my employer, the events of that day did kind of put 'assessing whether or not someone might trip over the water cooler' in perspective.

On my way to work - looking forward to telling co-workers how cool the Billy Idol concert was the night before.

Never did end up talking about the gig.

i was outside when the wife called,they saw the first plane hit the WTC and thought it was an accident, but when the second plane hit the other building, we knew it was not an accident or a stupid pilot. Wow,come to think of it its been 5 years already. I hope nothing like that would ever happen again. Cant forget videos of those people falling from the building/jumping, choosing death instead of severe heat.

I'd spent the night at a friend's house and we woke up quite late, something like 11:30 am. Went upstairs and his mom had left a message on their answering machine saying "Turn on the TV and see what's going on in the world today." We laughed and thought she was referring to us sleeping so long, but we turned on the tube and saw the news. Can't remember if the 2nd plane had hit by then (I think it had), so we watched until the towers collapsed.

heard the news when I was awake early that morn egtting ready to go to school

in a latin lesson, first days of high school

In a big Safety meeting at work with alot of other blokes,which happen periodically at our place...After the initial shock of what had just happened,the meeting turned into a discussion of who was of conscription age in the room if the call for war was to follow.Someone said conscription was 18-36 in this country..It was only in the hours that followed that it became clear it was a nutjob called Bin Laden responsible,and not the begining of WW3.Perhaps it was,it certainly did'nt help...

i watched it unfold from outside my job, i worked 2 blocks from WTC(I Work a block Closer now) it was insanity, the last 5 years have gone so fast. today it seems a lot of people are home from work, but there are tons upon tons of people down here, remembering, protesting, whatever... i did see a lot of people who lost someone, they are walking with pictures pinned to their clothes and i think those are the people i feel bad for today. i know one thing has changed in the last 5 years, for me anyway, america really turns me off, i dont know if its bush or the government in general but i dont feel the pride that i used to

In work! Someone rung me up and said to watch the TV. As we didn't have a TV in work we used the Internet. The news coming through was sporadic to say the least and the Net was on a go slow. ( Volume of Traffic?? ).

I managed to chat to someone in NY through Yahoo Messenger just before the second tower collapsed then they fell silent. I've always wondered if said person was alright.

El Jarvo wrote: I was at work. Remember it clearly. Sat at my desk when two lads came piling in saying they'd just seen the planes hit on Sky News in the Landmark hotel.

People probably won't remember this, but we were expecting a huge stockmarket crash the day before so, working for a bank, we were grateful to get that day over with.

And this went and happened the next day.

My sister was in Noo Yoik at the time. 15th floor of some uber hotel. They were alerted to the fact a plane had hit the first tower, and had all gone to the windows to see, so saw the second plane hit in slow motion. My sister's BA cabin crew. She was on the first BA flight back to Blighty about 4 or 5 days later. To say the atmosphere was tense and grim sounds like an understatement.

Jesus,talk about "getting back on the horse"! That must have been an awful flight home. I was at work in Salford when a customer come in and said a plane had hit one of the Twin Towers.Got home to watch it all unraveling on TV,unaware that anyone with a pinch of humanity would ever consider crashing them intentionally. The day the world turned to shit.

i was in bed. It must have been about one am. I had the radio on. I heard that a plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. At the time I didn't think it was such a big deal. I only became aware of the full extent of the attack at about six am when I got up.

I was in shock for a week.

Just starting work, Tuesdays and Fridays are our freight days and we start at 5:30 a.m. Our driver from Portland pulled in at 5:50 and wanted to know why we didn't have the radio on (we had no reason to turn it on really), so we did and tried to make sense of the various reports with no visual aid from the TV.

Any other day I'dve still been asleep, I don't usually rise until 6 am.

We wound up listening to the Howard Stern show, weirdly that was the station that came in best in our big warehouse that day. Great job by Howard and the rest of his staff on that day, I've gotta say.

I used to work in Dixons....... so we had wall to wall TV's, saw pretty much all of it. Staff from other shops came in to see it.

At home, listening to Orbital with my mate brad. Phone rings, and it's me ma telling me "WWIII just started". A couple of days later when my brain began to function, I backtracked my set-list and realised that when the first plane had hit, I had been listening to "Impact: The Earth is Burning".

Don't mind admitting I was terrified. Not of terrorists, I have a basic grasp pf statistics so they did not worry me in the least, no I was simply convinced it would be "nukes by teatime". All I could think was "fucking wonderful, you couldn;t have left it another fifty years could you, now when we die everything about us dies."

i had been taking a nap at my boyfriend's house in dunfermline. when i came out of the shower i checked the internet and saw the headlines on BBC news: twin towers fall. my heart jumped into my throat. i tried to get onto CNN but it was flooded and i couldn't get access. i turned on the beeb and saw one of the towers coming down. then i threw up.

I was on a 2pm -10pm shift at the place i was then employed at and had just started work.They had Radio 1 on and it started playing all this sombre music and i knew then something big had happened although i didnt't know what.A lot of my co workers hadn't seemed to notice all this sombre music on the radio.The thing was, the radio was coming over the tannoy and wasn't actually loud and clear enough to hear what the DJ (not sure but i seem to recall it was Chris Moyles who had the afternoon show at that time and for him to play serious sombre tunes meant soemthing was not right) was saying.So i could hear all this music but didn't know the news.Eventually a workmate came up and said "That's it now ,World War 3 is going to start" and he told me what had happened.

I felt sick and deeply shocked and struggled to make it through the remaining 7 hours of the shift.Didn't see the pictures until i got home about 10.30 pm.

I was on my way to work....actually I was going to PT (physically train) my Marines. Our shop is a 24 hour post and normally had MTV on at that time, but they cut out the videos to show footage of the twin towers. It was right after the first plane hit, and at first I thought it was some orwellian "war of the worlds" going on. It wasn't until the 2nd plane hit that we realized it was an attack.

Might be a different feeling for us, because at that moment I knew we were going to be sent off somewhere to fight. Called my wife to calm her, as she was worried about me being sent somewhere to fight an unknown enemy. I watched in horror as people jumped out their windows and live cell phone calls were being broadcasted. Quite honestly I was ready to jump on a C140 right then and there with my Marines and tear into who ever did this.

JHC

I was in my first full semester at Tri-County Technical College, I had an eight o'clock class that lasted until 9:30 (thus we didn't hear about the attacks at all). I went to check my email and somehow didn't see the big honking "New York Under Attack" headline on the side there.

Then I went to my History class later, still unawares. Our professor had given us an assignment the week before, to write about a historical event from the perspective of a newspaper story at the time, so when she came in and said "I guess you've all heard about the two planes that crashed into the Twin Towers, and the one that crashed into the Pentagon", it didn't register. I thought that this was a brilliant attempt on her part to make us realize the impact of historical events in a news format, for some reason. I guess it was just too hard to comprehend that something you only read about as being "the past" or "something that happens in Northern Ireland or the Mid-East" could happen here.

I was thinking about that this morning, it's something that I remember vividly. I fear that the actual event itself is being forgotten in a haze of patriotic fervor and revisionist history, and that someday we won't even mark the occasion as something of importance (think about the last time you spent a moment of silence on Pearl Harbor Day, Memorial Day, etc. It seems like any event from American history can be turned into an excuse for a barbecue these days). This generation that went through it as young adults won't, but the generations that come after will slowly start to lose sight of what happened and why. I think that's what I'm afraid of, more than some terrorists doing it again.

I was at work at the time, in St. Petersburg. And we didn't have a TV. Someone just mentioned around 7 pm, you know the Talib terrorists hijacked the airplanes in the States and exploded them. And I didn't think it was something extraordinary, just another hijacking. But when I got home all the TV footage was unleashed on me and I saw these astonishing shots of the airplanes hitting the skyscrapers - they were playing them over and over and then I saw how these buildings fell down - it was unbelievable.

I called right away to Texas.

I was on the way to a meeting with the facilities manager of a Reuters outpost in South London. I remember switching on Radio 1 to listen to Mark n Lard, and noticing them just playing music and sounding concerned.

When I got in the Reuters building, I noticed a lot of people milling around, and after sitting down for a while, was informed the meeting was cancelled, all employees running excitedly to the TV rooms. I ended up joining them in time to see one of the towers come down.

I got in the lift to go back to the car park, still in a state of disbelief, with some office junior saying 'its Saddam'.

I had an appointment with an American bank in the City that day, which i promptly cancelled.

Then I rounded up a few friends and went to the safest haven we knew, our local pub, and just watched the massive screens, totally transfixed. The pub quickly filled up as many of my friends got on the quickest available train, to escape the City.

I was on the way to work when a neighbor alerted to me the smoke at the WTC. Everybody assumed it was an accident, so i proceeded to work via the subway. When i arrived at my destination, it was pure mayhem. People evacuting buildings, and screaming. Cops were everywhere. I got to the photo shop right by the brooklyn bridge that i was working at that time. The owner decided to stay open because we were all trapped there anyway, and we started to get major media companies coming in because we were the closest photo shop open to the WTC. So here i was developing very disturbing photos(i'll spare you the details), while it started raining ashes. One fucker grabbed me and told me that i was going to war. After work, i went to the brooklyn promenade overlooking the manhattan skyline. There, i Ran into some buds and went to a ale house and drank the nite away.

I remember I was in a US history course during my senior year of high school and another teacher came in to tell our teacher to turn on the TV. He said that a plane had crashed into the twin towers. So, she turned on the TV and we watched what was going on. As we left the class, the tower fell. Two periods later, my English teacher tried to keep on teaching - he told us that this really wasn't that important - but after 20 minutes, we were told that we all had to leave school and go home. As soon as I got home, my mother asked, "What's the big deal?"

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote: I remember I was in a US history course during my senior year of high school and another teacher came in to tell our teacher to turn on the TV. He said that a plane had crashed into the twin towers. So, she turned on the TV and we watched what was going on. As we left the class, the tower fell. Two periods later, my English teacher tried to keep on teaching - he told us that this really wasn't that important - but after 20 minutes, we were told that we all had to leave school and go home. As soon as I got home, my mother asked, "What's the big deal?"

Sounds like your around a bunch of people with their heads up their asses....I'm sorry, i know it's your mother, but come on, "what's the big deal?" ????????? How about almost 3,000 Peaceful, American citezens with families, fathers/mothers, sisters/brothers, children, and friends. Their only fatal mistake was working in the tallest building inthe US. The lives of the people related to them will never be the same. How about asking one of the family or friends of these people "what's the big deal?".

Yeah, 3000 dead is hard to ignore.

Mind you, the good folks in the USA who funded (in great part) the deaths of WELL OVER 3000 terrorist victims here, seem to have managed to ignore it nicely. And of course, Bush did say he'd bomb ANY country who supported terrorism, well.....NORAID is a registered US charity, so the US Govt sanctions their activities. Work it out.

And of course, when Americans are killed, the UK sends troops to bomb fuck out of all and sundry. But when it's OWN citizens are killed.....they give their killers jobs in the Govt.

Still since a HUGE portion of Noraid's money came from NY, and in particular the NYPD and NYFD, I guess their god taught them a lesson 5 years ago.

Doctor? wrote: Mind you, the good folks in the USA who funded (in great part) the deaths of WELL OVER 3000 terrorist victims here, seem to have managed to ignore it nicely.

Ummmmmm.......terrorist-victims?????? Kind of an oxymoron isn't it? And when you say "here" do you mean England???

Please explain.

JHC

Victims of terrorism in Northern Ireland

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Mind you, the good folks in the USA who funded (in great part) the deaths of WELL OVER 3000 terrorist victims here, seem to have managed to ignore it nicely.

Ummmmmm.......terrorist-victims?????? Kind of an oxymoron isn't it? And when you say "here" do you mean England???

Please explain.

JHC

He means the well over 3000 victims of the IRA's operations throughout Ireland and Britain... which was well funded by Americans through Noraid.

Yop.

Not exclusive US funding of course, but then I do not recall that being a criterion.

Hmmmm....I'll look into that. If that is the case, guess it is a perfect example of people not knowing huh?

Doctor? wrote: Still since a HUGE portion of Noraid's money came from NY, and in particular the NYPD and NYFD, I guess their god taught them a lesson 5 years ago.

While I agree that the IRA was pretty fucked up, to generalize that the NYPD and NYFD got what was coming to them is quite a stretch. Certainly not all of them were IRA supporters, nor were most of the others who died in in those towers.

EdelBrock wrote: How about asking one of the family or friends of these people "what's the big deal?".

Interesting you bring this up.

Many families of victims are rather pissed off about how our government used the deaths of their loved ones to falsely justify a first-strike invasion of a foreign country. The current administration's response has been pretty much the same thing... "what's the big deal?"

Thinking back today, I think the U.S. government has done more to terrorize their own people over the past 5 years than any actual terrorist attacks could have.

EdelBrock wrote: Hmmmm....I'll look into that. If that is the case, guess it is a perfect example of people not knowing huh?

Well they sure as hell know now, I wish the lesson could have been less painful though.

UTV sent a crew to NYC in late sept 01. They asked in several Irish pubs, what would happen the next time the collecting tin came round. The general consensus was that the motherfuckers would be hard pressed to get out alive now that folks understood what was done with their money. The double or even triple irony is that the US dollars paid to the IRA invariably ended up in the hands of Middle Eastern arms merchants, many of whom have ties to the very groups the US has such a problem with right now.....and of course that those folks are never gonna attack Belfast cos their old mates are here.

I should point out the loyalist terroists received very little in the way of support from the USA. tho extremist groups in the UK like combat18 supported them quite a bit. Of course the loyalists were also too retarded to pull any proper terrorism off, instead prefering lesser attrocities, for instance the old grenade in the pub routine. (actually when a member of the Red Hand Commando tried this, and after pulling the pin and releasing the tortion grip ( what's the right word for that Pontiac?), he forgot to throw it in....all over Belfast were drawings of the "red stump of ulster" bearing the legend "no hand commando")

Mr disco 99 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: How about asking one of the family or friends of these people "what's the big deal?".

Interesting you bring this up.

Many families of victims are rather pissed off about how our government used the deaths of their loved ones to falsely justify a first-strike invasion of a foreign country. The current administration's response has been pretty much the same thing... "what's the big deal?"

Understand to a point. But after 9/11 things changed. Most importantly was the idea of reacting vs. being proactive.

The main idea in the 9/11 docudrama mentioned in another post is that Clinton didn't take down OBL....but that actually falls in line to old thinking, that we only condemn by reaction. After 9/11 Bush, whether right or wrong, tried a new method. To be proactive in small problems and attack them while they are small.

Of course there hasn't been a good median set on reactive/proactive thinking, but I think that will come in time....but only through mistakes.....as it is the only thing people really learn from.

JHC

Doctor? wrote: and after pulling the pin and releasing the tortion grip ( what's the right word for that Pontiac?)

It is commonly refered to as the "spoon"

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Thinking back today, I think the U.S. government has done more to terrorize their own people over the past 5 years than any actual terrorist attacks could have.

Exactly. That's the primary thing that's wrong with this country right now... meaningless stupidity like this...

I wish more people were awake to this unfortunate reality.

On my way to work. I missed work on Friday because of a bout of diverticulitis so when I realized how bad it really was I turned around and called in sick. When I first heard about it I thought that it was a small plane like a Cessna or a Piper that ran into the tower.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Thinking back today, I think the U.S. government has done more to terrorize their own people over the past 5 years than any actual terrorist attacks could have.

Exactly. That's the primary thing that's wrong with this country right now... meaningless stupidity like this...

I wish more people were awake to this unfortunate reality.

Failing to see how this adds to the Pope's thoughts.....so people have a better, simpler idea of threat levels......ohhhhhhh so terrorizing.....think I'll go hid under the bed now....give me a break.

EdelBrock wrote:

Mr disco 99 wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Thinking back today, I think the U.S. government has done more to terrorize their own people over the past 5 years than any actual terrorist attacks could have.

Exactly. That's the primary thing that's wrong with this country right now... meaningless stupidity like this...

I wish more people were awake to this unfortunate reality.

Failing to see how this adds to the Pope's thoughts.....so people have a better, simpler idea of threat levels......ohhhhhhh so terrorizing.....think I'll go hid under the bed now....give me a break.

Through this, the Department of "Homeland Security" is telling us how afraid we should be without giving any specific information as to what of or how to deal with it. Have you ever seen it below yellow? It looks scary when it's at "severe" but it doesn't really mean anything.

Personally I don't see how the government could possibly know how safe we really are from terrorists plotting against us.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Mr disco 99 wrote:

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Thinking back today, I think the U.S. government has done more to terrorize their own people over the past 5 years than any actual terrorist attacks could have.

Exactly. That's the primary thing that's wrong with this country right now... meaningless stupidity like this...

I wish more people were awake to this unfortunate reality.

Failing to see how this adds to the Pope's thoughts.....so people have a better, simpler idea of threat levels......ohhhhhhh so terrorizing.....think I'll go hid under the bed now....give me a break.

Through this, the Department of "Homeland Security" is telling us how afraid we should be without giving any specific information as to what of or how to deal with it. Have you ever seen it below yellow?

Personally I don't see how the government could possibly know how safe we really are from terrorists plotting against us.

How about this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4778575.stm

or is that not clear enough????

EdelBrock wrote: How about this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4778575.stm

or is that not clear enough????

Yeah I heard about that... some seriously fucked up people got caught trying to blow up some planes.

Great. Am I supposed to freak out now? Cancel my travel plans? Crawl under a rock?

I've said it before. The most important thing we can do to fight terrorism is to fight the terror that goes with it. We're supposed to be afraid to fly to the UK because of attempted acts of terrorism. This despite the fact that even with the supposed "severe" risk, statistically it's still far more dangerous to drive your car or smoke cigarettes. Attacks against airplanes and buildings work because they're very visible and have a high psychological impact. But we need to look beyond that and see things from a realistic perspective. We need to stop being afraid.

"We are under attack from islamic fascists who want to take away our freedom." --GWB

The government isn't helping.

I don't know about you but I'll be damned if I'm going to let anybody change my plans.

True, they win when you give in, it's something that those who have had this crap in their lives for a long time learn.

I was thinking about the things you list as more dangerous......

I wonder where international terrorism featured on the top 50 causes of death in the US in 2001 (or even on that very day). Surely Govt effort should be applied based on how many deaths are involved.....so let's bomb Phillip Morris and Macdonalds :D

It's all shite these threat levels....they just raise it when they wanna remind people to be scared so they can get some more Orwellian laws in place. Speaking of laws, does anyone else remember the US campaign against internment in NI? hypocrits of the very highest order.

I completely agree with you on that. We definately should not allow "terror" affect our day to day plans. When that has happened we truely have lost.

On note of the "color" system, it is not a new system. The military has had this in effect for many years. Since we can be picked out of a crowd (mainly because of haircuts), we are easy targets. It is a system to let us know, with simplicity, how to act in certian countries or what level of security we need on our bases. It has worked well in our world, so that it was improvised for terror alerts seems only common-sense.....but in the end I do understand what you were refering to.....but I blame media, as they survive on making people scared.....watch an episode of 20/20, 60 minutes, etc. and you'll never want to leave the house, breathe air, eat or drink anything.

Someone noted, after NY times leaked info on the international banks secretly giving info on large bank transactions in question, that the media has self-appointed itself the 4th branch of government....the only thing is no one can watch over it like the other 3 branches are.....a good point I think.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: How about this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4778575.stm

or is that not clear enough????

Yeah I heard about that... some seriously fucked up people got caught trying to blow up some planes.

Great. Am I supposed to freak out now? Cancel my travel plans? Crawl under a rock?

I've said it before. The most important thing we can do to fight terrorism is to fight the terror that goes with it. We're supposed to be afraid to fly to the UK because of attempted acts of terrorism. This despite the fact that even with the supposed "severe" risk, statistically it's still far more dangerous to drive your car or smoke cigarettes. Attacks against airplanes and buildings work because they're very visible and have a high psychological impact. But we need to look beyond that and see things from a realistic perspective. We need to stop being afraid.

"We are under attack from islamic fascists who want to take away our freedom." --GWB

The government isn't helping.

I don't know about you but I'll be damned if I'm going to let anybody change my plans.

The hotel in which i work is suffering its quitest september since 1992 (according to the owner of course) but this is because we've had over 300 cancellations from people after the latest bombs on planes threat.

So the terror thing is still playing a factor in peoples travel plans.

I was working in a tiny little village in the north lazio countryside, restoring the wall painting of an ancient mansion. When I heard the news I just wanted to go back home in Rome and feel safe.

Getting ready for my exams at Warsaw University. Afterseeing what's happened on telly i wasn't able to pay an attention at my exam.

I was at work - getting phone updates from my wife who was herself being updated by her mother who was looking after my son at our house. Tried getting on the various news sites but they were all swamped.

Went to watch Brighton v Southampton in the League Cup that evening - no-one gave a shit about the game. Looking round the ground it was hard to imagine that the estimated death toll at that time ammounted to over 50% of the crowd that night.

Over the next couple of days, it emerged that a respected poster on North Stand Chat was on the 90-somethingth floor and had died. A memorial fund was set-up and continues to support youth football in Sussex and New York. Every year the main fund raising event is a match between Brighton and Palace fans.

Had been out late the night before and, struggling through a vile hangover, I turned on the telly when I belatedly got up to check a footy result from the previous night which in some vague way affected Stoke. The 24 hour news had already kicked in on the BBC.

What I remember more clearly was watching the telly later that evening round at a mate's place. There was a lass there who I'd not met before, who introduced herself by showing off her new £500 coat. Someone then told me she was an Oxbridge graduate. She'd not seen any of the footage until now but had been told about falling bodies, the collapse of the towers and so on. When she first saw the people chucking them selves out she was laughing; later whooping when the towers tumbled. Someone asked her why she thought it was OK to laugh at this stuff.

"Because they're capitalists".

She wasn't the only person in the room with that point of view. Even with hindsight, and having seen the way that the events of that day have been used to justify all sorts of horrors, I have rarely been in the company of such a bunch of crass, unthinking wankers.

Not even when you've had a beer with me?

Seriously though, champagne socialists are the vilest of all humanity. Was there any further contact with these 'people' Martin?

Uncle Liam wrote: Not even when you've had a beer with me?

Seriously though, champagne socialists are the vilest of all humanity. Was there any further contact with these 'people' Martin?

yeah he married her.

I wouldnt have thought that ********* ******* was like that!

Uncle Liam wrote: Not even when you've had a beer with me?

Seriously though, champagne socialists are the vilest of all humanity. Was there any further contact with these 'people' Martin?

Nope, though I got very drunk and angry that night and didn't really hold back with what I thought about them, which I later got told earned me the moniker "angry 9/11 guy".

Less 'champagne socialists', more Total Fucking Arseholes.

Had just got back from work - half day as it was a Friday, stuck the TV on, just weird seeing it all happen... Remember a mate of mine down the pub that night being really paranoid, sure that the end of the world was nigh or something... Looking back now it all seems really surreal, hard to imagine actually having lived through the coverage as it happened...

Snorri xxx

Defo a Tuesday. I was on a training course at work, and the trainer hadn't turned up for some reason, so we were hanging around the reception area when I saw the TV. I'm not sure I still quite realise the enormity of what happened.

El Jarvo wrote:

Snorrimon wrote: Had just got back from work - half day as it was a Friday, stuck the TV on, just weird seeing it all happen...

That's one thing I'll never forget. It was a Tuesday.

Shows how quickly you forget... I stand corrected... Definitely saw it all at lunchtime though, so why I wasn't at work...

Snorri xxx

Snorrimon wrote:

El Jarvo wrote:

Snorrimon wrote: Had just got back from work - half day as it was a Friday, stuck the TV on, just weird seeing it all happen...

That's one thing I'll never forget. It was a Tuesday.

Shows how quickly you forget... I stand corrected... Definitely saw it all at lunchtime though, so why I wasn't at work...

Snorri xxx

Alehouse (with no telly)???

In New York. I didn't hear the news I heard the crash.

I win the shared tragedy game!!!!!!!!

J.A.K wrote:

Snorrimon wrote: Shows how quickly you forget... I stand corrected... Definitely saw it all at lunchtime though, so why I wasn't at work...

Snorri xxx

Alehouse (with no telly)???

Phew, that's that one sorted... Now, where was I and what was I doing at 2 am on 15th January 2003?

Snorri xxx

Smarra[gold]dona wrote: i watched it unfold from outside my job, i worked 2 blocks from WTC(I Work a block Closer now) it was insanity, the last 5 years have gone so fast. today it seems a lot of people are home from work, but there are tons upon tons of people down here, remembering, protesting, whatever... i did see a lot of people who lost someone, they are walking with pictures pinned to their clothes and i think those are the people i feel bad for today. i know one thing has changed in the last 5 years, for me anyway, america really turns me off, i dont know if its bush or the government in general but i dont feel the pride that i used to

Hey how long before you got internet back? Did you lose it? I remember about 8 pm that night number 7 world trade center fell and verizon's isp servers were in there. I didn't have internet at work or at school for a week.

It was tragic.

Also what was horrible was seeing all those damn missing posters all over the city afterwards. The women in hysterical tears running through the streets with pictures of their children. It was realy horrific. Just wow..

It's that kind of shit that everyone trying to make some sort of self-important "I remember where I was when I heard the news" connection to things as if it happened to them can't fake.

C-Ro wrote:

Smarra[gold]dona wrote: i watched it unfold from outside my job, i worked 2 blocks from WTC(I Work a block Closer now) it was insanity, the last 5 years have gone so fast. today it seems a lot of people are home from work, but there are tons upon tons of people down here, remembering, protesting, whatever... i did see a lot of people who lost someone, they are walking with pictures pinned to their clothes and i think those are the people i feel bad for today. i know one thing has changed in the last 5 years, for me anyway, america really turns me off, i dont know if its bush or the government in general but i dont feel the pride that i used to

Hey how long before you got internet back? Did you lose it? I remember about 8 pm that night number 7 world trade center fell and verizon's isp servers were in there. I didn't have internet at work or at school for a week.

It was tragic.

Also what was horrible was seeing all those damn missing posters all over the city afterwards. The women in hysterical tears running through the streets with pictures of their children. It was realy horrific. Just wow..

It's that kind of shit that everyone trying to make some sort of self-important "I remember where I was when I heard the news" connection to things as if it happened to them can't fake.

"I was there - everyone else fuck off".

Nope, that's not remotely self-important. But, then, that's just your schtick, innit?

C-Ro wrote: In New York. I didn't hear the news I heard the crash.

I win the shared tragedy game!!!!!!!!

Congratulations.

Did you lose anything other than your internet connection? I'm sure it was scary actually being there and all, but it doesn't make you special. We were all shocked/afraid/angry that day and we're all still here.

I grew up in New York and feel lucky to have been several hundred miles away.

Mr disco 99 wrote:

C-Ro wrote: In New York. I didn't hear the news I heard the crash.

I win the shared tragedy game!!!!!!!!

Congratulations.

Did you lose anything other than your internet connection? I'm sure it was scary actually being there and all, but it doesn't make you special. We were all shocked/afraid/angry that day and we're all still here.

I grew up in New York and feel lucky to have been several hundred miles away.

Yeah.. right... It doesn't make me special at all... In fact, I'm fucking saying the opposite.

but I don't see why people have to sit here and go through and try and place themselves at a point and time where they weren't. It's like all that "I am a Londoner" shit with regards to the 07/07/05. It's not strength and shared fucking tragedy. It's fucking "oh let's see how I can forge a connection when there's none there"

For example, this woman with whom I used to be friendly (until she said this--and it showed me what a smacked ass she was), was telling me about her experience on 09/11/01, saying how in Ottawa, they really felt the pain "that new yorkers were going through" because they were "one hour from the new york border"

That's fucking bullshit.

As for what I lost... I lost family the same as a fuck load of people from this area... does *THAT* make me win this fucking useless game now?

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

C-Ro wrote:

Smarra[gold]dona wrote: i watched it unfold from outside my job, i worked 2 blocks from WTC(I Work a block Closer now) it was insanity, the last 5 years have gone so fast. today it seems a lot of people are home from work, but there are tons upon tons of people down here, remembering, protesting, whatever... i did see a lot of people who lost someone, they are walking with pictures pinned to their clothes and i think those are the people i feel bad for today. i know one thing has changed in the last 5 years, for me anyway, america really turns me off, i dont know if its bush or the government in general but i dont feel the pride that i used to

Hey how long before you got internet back? Did you lose it? I remember about 8 pm that night number 7 world trade center fell and verizon's isp servers were in there. I didn't have internet at work or at school for a week.

It was tragic.

Also what was horrible was seeing all those damn missing posters all over the city afterwards. The women in hysterical tears running through the streets with pictures of their children. It was realy horrific. Just wow..

It's that kind of shit that everyone trying to make some sort of self-important "I remember where I was when I heard the news" connection to things as if it happened to them can't fake.

"I was there - everyone else fuck off".

Nope, that's not remotely self-important. But, then, that's just your schtick, innit?

Way to not get it, jackoff.

EdelBrock wrote:

This blue-eyed boy that wants to be wrote: I remember I was in a US history course during my senior year of high school and another teacher came in to tell our teacher to turn on the TV. He said that a plane had crashed into the twin towers. So, she turned on the TV and we watched what was going on. As we left the class, the tower fell. Two periods later, my English teacher tried to keep on teaching - he told us that this really wasn't that important - but after 20 minutes, we were told that we all had to leave school and go home. As soon as I got home, my mother asked, "What's the big deal?"

Sounds like your around a bunch of people with their heads up their asses....I'm sorry, i know it's your mother, but come on, "what's the big deal?" ????????? How about almost 3,000 Peaceful, American citezens with families, fathers/mothers, sisters/brothers, children, and friends. Their only fatal mistake was working in the tallest building inthe US. The lives of the people related to them will never be the same. How about asking one of the family or friends of these people "what's the big deal?".

She understands now. When it all happened, she was stuch at a train station in Trenton, NJ. When I got home from school, she wondered why I got home early and why I had to be sent home. I had to explain to her that two planes just crashed into the twin towers...

But my English teacher did really have his head up his arse. The TV was on in the classroom showing the news and he wanted us to be reading about Huckleberry Finn.

I was at work in a video-rental outfit (how quickly that line of business went down the tube). Bizarre day, cause I saw it in the window of a TV shop while I was out for morning tea-break, but it was just a load of burning buildings at that stage.

Being a video shop (mainly VHS at that stage), there was loty of tellies, but no TV. We managed to pick up dodgy telly pictures through an old ariel. Then people kept coming into the shop to have a chat about it. A shop like that attreacted lonely people who watched a lot of videos. They all needed to talk to someone about it all on the day in question. I remember a stock-broker type (with a beautiful leather satchel) coming in toward the end of the day, and he was emotionally wrecked cause he had just lost a fucking fortune. We werent sure if he was a rich junkie, or an actual broker, but either way, he had his fair share of marching powder that day. He was quite amusing.

Working in that shop (towards the end of my summer-job) was pretty terrible. Conditions were crap, and I was glad to get the Friday off for the day of mourning. I dont remember a whole lot more about that period, apart from the fact that in the immediate aftermath, people lost all critical control and the most bizarre places were closed to investigate anthrax attacks (hmm, I dont think that an Irish shopping centre is top of Osamas hit-list).

C-Ro wrote:

For example, this woman with whom I used to be friendly (until she said this--and it showed me what a smacked ass she was), was telling me about her experience on 09/11/01, saying how in Ottawa, they really felt the pain "that new yorkers were going through" because they were "one hour from the new york border"

That's fucking bullshit.

I agree totally.

You're right. I totally missed your point.

C-Ro wrote:

Also what was horrible was seeing all those damn missing posters all over the city afterwards.

in the life magazine 2001 yearly review, if you open the front page my friend stacey's missing poster is right in the middle of the inner cover. to make it worse, it was put up by her best friend, abi, whose father had been on united flight 11, the first plane to hit. i suppose she was putting up two posters that day. when i first saw it i wasn't expecting it at all, and needless to say i was a little verklempt. of all the thousands of missing posters, they had to choose hers.

Like it or not, it happened on telly. Like it or not, that's one of the defining 'communal' experiences we have. The London bombings didn't happen on live television, although something like - say - Hillsborough did, and like most others I remember both days as a 'witness'.

No-one's trying to appropriate anyone's 'pain', at least not in the contributions here as far as I can see. It's prosthetic memory, for sure, but then what isn't? Perhaps one ought to be amazed by how those images brought - and still bring - a mass outpouring of genuine shock and sympathy here in the UK, a country with an astonishing kneejerk loathing of America. Obviously, if we had similarly graphic broadcasts from Iraq on a daily basis things in the Middle East would be very different.

the main problem i have with the news coverage of 9/11 is the constant footage of the planes hitting the towers and the towers collapsing. you can't escape these images. i know the public enjoys 'rubbernecking,' but i wish more people would see it for what it is: watching the murder of over 2000 people. why must they show these pictures again and again? (except, of course, to get ratings. which perhaps answers my own question.)

Yeah i agree .And why inflate terrorists egos by constantly replaying those images?

AgentWood wrote: the main problem i have with the news coverage of 9/11 is the constant footage of the planes hitting the towers and the towers collapsing. you can't escape these images. i know the public enjoys 'rubbernecking,' but i wish more people would see it for what it is: watching the murder of over 2000 people. why must they show these pictures again and again? (except, of course, to get ratings. which perhaps answers my own question.)

Well, yeah, its displaced the Zapruder footage as the most (in)famous snuff film in the world, that's true. I think you underestimate people if you think the fascination with those images is purely voyeuristic. How do you make sense of the deaths of several thousand people? You simply can't, so you watch that footage again and again and again to try and make sense of it. You can't rationalise it with words cos it's beyond language - no poetry after Auschwitz and so on. Besides, those images are easy to watch on a multitude of websites, so its not like you can really blame TV networks for opportunistically broadcasting death porn when you can see it anytime with the click of a mouse.

And, I'll admit it, those images still fascinate me: I'm fucked if I know exactly why, mind.....

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

AgentWood wrote: the main problem i have with the news coverage of 9/11 is the constant footage of the planes hitting the towers and the towers collapsing. you can't escape these images. i know the public enjoys 'rubbernecking,' but i wish more people would see it for what it is: watching the murder of over 2000 people. why must they show these pictures again and again? (except, of course, to get ratings. which perhaps answers my own question.)

Well, yeah, its displaced the Zapruder footage as the most (in)famous snuff film in the world, that's true. I think you underestimate people if you think the fascination with those images is purely voyeuristic. How do you make sense of the deaths of several thousand people? You simply can't, so you watch that footage again and again and again to try and make sense of it. You can't rationalise it with words cos it's beyond language - no poetry after Auschwitz and so on. Besides, those images are easy to watch on a multitude of websites, so its not like you can really blame TV networks for opportunistically broadcasting death porn when you can see it anytime with the click of a mouse.

And, I'll admit it, those images still fascinate me: I'm fucked if I know exactly why, mind.....

theodore adorno had a point about auschwitz. after all, how can we truly view beauty and applaud humanity after the worst mass-murder in history. can we recover from 9/11? i don't know, but i think life will be different from now on.

you're right about the death porn on the internet. consider how many people watched the beheading of nick berg. however, it is rather insensitive to those who lost loved ones to show the WTC footage ad nauseam. i've always wondered what happened to todd and stacey between the time the towers hit and when they fell, and i can't even imagine what the family members are going through, seeing those images every day.

one thing i wonder: where are the stories about katrina and those who lost their lives due to miscommunication between government agencies? new york can rebuild itself...new orleans has a few decades before it must move to a new location. it's a dying city and a poor city. yet we seem to have forgotten what happened those days in september. we can learn from our experiences with katrina yet the news channels seem eerily silent on the issue.

C-Ro wrote:

Mr disco 99 wrote:

C-Ro wrote: In New York. I didn't hear the news I heard the crash.

I win the shared tragedy game!!!!!!!!

Congratulations.

Did you lose anything other than your internet connection? I'm sure it was scary actually being there and all, but it doesn't make you special. We were all shocked/afraid/angry that day and we're all still here.

I grew up in New York and feel lucky to have been several hundred miles away.

Yeah.. right... It doesn't make me special at all... In fact, I'm fucking saying the opposite.

but I don't see why people have to sit here and go through and try and place themselves at a point and time where they weren't. It's like all that "I am a Londoner" shit with regards to the 07/07/05. It's not strength and shared fucking tragedy. It's fucking "oh let's see how I can forge a connection when there's none there"

For example, this woman with whom I used to be friendly (until she said this--and it showed me what a smacked ass she was), was telling me about her experience on 09/11/01, saying how in Ottawa, they really felt the pain "that new yorkers were going through" because they were "one hour from the new york border"

That's fucking bullshit.

As for what I lost... I lost family the same as a fuck load of people from this area... does *THAT* make me win this fucking useless game now?

C-Ro, I understand you pain to some extent, as I run into people all the time that have asinine questions about me being in Iraq....like: "did you see anyone die?"; or "I saw on the news..." or "did you kill anyone?"...

At first I was really pissed off at these people....but overtime I realized that they really don't know what to say or ask. They really care, and really are concerned, and feel that they need to say something. It's like if your best friend's mother died...what do you say to her to make her feel that you care and are concerned...words can't explain, and yet you know you aren't feeling the same as she is about it (no matter how close you are to her mother).

I think this is what the "where were you" is all about...it gives people connection so that they can care, show that they care, and not forget...it would be much worse for people to ignore 9/11 anniversaries, wouldn't it?

JHC

Taking blood out of a patient...

It was appauling and inexcusable, but was I the only person not surprised that 9/11 happened?

Weirdly, I wrote a book about people getting angry and radicalised about the state of the world, with an ending that included a 9/11 event, a couple of years earlier.

Craig W wrote: but was I the only person not surprised that 9/11 happened?

No.

Craig W wrote: Taking blood out of a patient...

It was appauling and inexcusable, but was I the only person not surprised that 9/11 happened?

Weirdly, I wrote a book about people getting angry and radicalised about the state of the world, with an ending that included a 9/11 event, a couple of years earlier.

If you have ever read "Rendevous with Rama" Clarke, on the first page, cites that just after 9am on Sept 11 was the time when the greatest cataclysm ever to befall the Human race occurred. ( A whopping meteorite as it happens, thumping Italy and fucking the planet up a treat).

Mr disco 99 wrote:

C-Ro wrote:

For example, this woman with whom I used to be friendly (until she said this--and it showed me what a smacked ass she was), was telling me about her experience on 09/11/01, saying how in Ottawa, they really felt the pain "that new yorkers were going through" because they were "one hour from the new york border"

That's fucking bullshit.

I agree totally.

You're right. I totally missed your point.

It's ok..it was easy to miss. I was pissy, because I really do feel strongly about this shit, and that lead to me being even less coherent than usual.

i didn't even have internet connection back than.

They SAY they will not show the plane hitting the Pentagon from any of the dozens of colour FMV cameras coerving that face of the building beacause it would distress the relatives.

So the relatives of those on the two planes which struck the WTC are just a bunch of cunts and deserve to be distressed?

I smell something, something masculine, something bovine, something brown,

AgentWood wrote:

C-Ro wrote:

Also what was horrible was seeing all those damn missing posters all over the city afterwards.

in the life magazine 2001 yearly review, if you open the front page my friend stacey's missing poster is right in the middle of the inner cover. to make it worse, it was put up by her best friend, abi, whose father had been on united flight 11, the first plane to hit. i suppose she was putting up two posters that day. when i first saw it i wasn't expecting it at all, and needless to say i was a little verklempt. of all the thousands of missing posters, they had to choose hers.

God that's awful :(

Did the magazine donate all proceeds from that edition to charity? If not, they, like Michael Moore (and indeed the makers, sponsors and purchasers of advertising slots suring this weekend's apparent documentary) are guilty of profiting from terrorist actions.

I was SO shocked that day that the USAF were not airborne. ANd far more shocked when I found out they WERE, but that for some reason on THAT day, standard hi-jack intercept procedure was denied to them. The FAA like the CAA in the UK prohibits supersonic flight over any person, building or vehlicle....which broadly translates as "over land", HOWEVER, during an intercept the regulations are suspended and the aircraft are free to navigate at +mach1, this occured in several dozen cases in the years prior to 11/09/01 and yet on THAT day the interceptors were told to remain subsonic.....the upshot....the first fighter arriving 20 mins after the 2nd plane instead of 10 mins before the first.

Doctor? wrote: Did the magazine donate all proceeds from that edition to charity? If not, they, like Michael Moore (and indeed the makers, sponsors and purchasers of advertising slots suring this weekend's apparent documentary) are guilty of profiting from terrorist actions.

I was SO shocked that day that the USAF were not airborne. ANd far more shocked when I found out they WERE, but that for some reason on THAT day, standard hi-jack intercept procedure was denied to them. The FAA like the CAA in the UK prohibits supersonic flight over any person, building or vehlicle....which broadly translates as "over land", HOWEVER, during an intercept the regulations are suspended and the aircraft are free to navigate at +mach1, this occured in several dozen cases in the years prior to 11/09/01 and yet on THAT day the interceptors were told to remain subsonic.....the upshot....the first fighter arriving 20 mins after the 2nd plane instead of 10 mins before the first.

I'm surprised that it's taken until Page 5 of this thread for the stupid conspiracy mumblings to surface.

GlasVegas wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Did the magazine donate all proceeds from that edition to charity? If not, they, like Michael Moore (and indeed the makers, sponsors and purchasers of advertising slots suring this weekend's apparent documentary) are guilty of profiting from terrorist actions.

I was SO shocked that day that the USAF were not airborne. ANd far more shocked when I found out they WERE, but that for some reason on THAT day, standard hi-jack intercept procedure was denied to them. The FAA like the CAA in the UK prohibits supersonic flight over any person, building or vehlicle....which broadly translates as "over land", HOWEVER, during an intercept the regulations are suspended and the aircraft are free to navigate at +mach1, this occured in several dozen cases in the years prior to 11/09/01 and yet on THAT day the interceptors were told to remain subsonic.....the upshot....the first fighter arriving 20 mins after the 2nd plane instead of 10 mins before the first.

I'm surprised that it's taken until Page 5 of this thread for the stupid conspiracy mumblings to surface.

Indeed :)

my friend stacey, who was my pair in our boat on our high school crew team, used to write me psych notes and put them in my mailbox to get me hyped for our races. stacey died in tower one (she worked for marsh & mclennan) and i hope to god she was directly in the path of the plane and it killed her instantly so she didn't have to suffer, go through two hours of terror or, god forbid, jump.

in 2002 i was going through some of my high school things in storage and i came across a psych note stacey had written to me. i don't know why i kept that particular piece of paper. perhaps because i loved rowing so much, who knows. anyway, whenever i feel down i take out the note and read it. it always makes me smile and reminds me of the good times we had. it seems like just yesterday.

GlasVegas wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Did the magazine donate all proceeds from that edition to charity? If not, they, like Michael Moore (and indeed the makers, sponsors and purchasers of advertising slots suring this weekend's apparent documentary) are guilty of profiting from terrorist actions.

I was SO shocked that day that the USAF were not airborne. ANd far more shocked when I found out they WERE, but that for some reason on THAT day, standard hi-jack intercept procedure was denied to them. The FAA like the CAA in the UK prohibits supersonic flight over any person, building or vehlicle....which broadly translates as "over land", HOWEVER, during an intercept the regulations are suspended and the aircraft are free to navigate at +mach1, this occured in several dozen cases in the years prior to 11/09/01 and yet on THAT day the interceptors were told to remain subsonic.....the upshot....the first fighter arriving 20 mins after the 2nd plane instead of 10 mins before the first.

I'm surprised that it's taken until Page 5 of this thread for the stupid conspiracy mumblings to surface.

It's not a conspiracy mumbling, it's a simple question, I have no answer for it. It just seems that the people on the WTC aircraft have more important families or something.

If I was a conspiracy freak I would offer up some daft real reason like martians or something. This is the problem, there are so many muppets out there talking so much shite about this whole thing that any question asked, no matter how legitimate is ignored and labelled as paranoid spoutings.

Can YOU tell me why the planes were not alloed to go mach+?

Doctor? wrote:

Can YOU tell me why the planes were not alloed to go mach+?

because nobody (including the government) had any clue what was going on and were sitting there with their mouths open and their brains turned off?

AgentWood wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

Can YOU tell me why the planes were not alloed to go mach+?

because nobody (including the government) had any clue what was going on and were sitting there with their mouths open and their brains turned off?

That's certainly the most likely reason, after all we should never attribute to malice, that which is more easily explained by stupidity. The ODD bit is that on countless previous occassions, when nothing real was happening, interceptors chased down aircraft that were off-track at supersonic speed...I cannot remember the numbers, but I THINK it was around 28 times in the 5 years preceeding 11/09/01.

I would like to clarify my position on conspiracies....90% of what has been said (like for instance the entire WTC being wired for demolition without anyone noticing 100's of miles of det cord), is abject crap. But given Rumsfeld's statement that morning ("let's use this to clean it all up, related or not"), doesn't lead me to believe it was in the Bush administrations interests to make all that much effort to prevent this.

One interesting thing that DOES pique my paranoia gland is all the talk of cellphone calls. Surely Cellphones cause aircraft to lose control and crash, or are the airlines just telling you to turn them off for fun? Also, if it IS possible to call the ground perfectly from any height....why are so many airlines making a HUGE deal of their onboard cell ( a technology rolled out only in the last 2 years)? And one final point on the calls....I have NEVER called my mum and said "hi mum, this is Steve CAMPBELL". Then again, yanks are weirdos.

Doctor? wrote: One interesting thing that DOES pique my paranoia gland is all the talk of cellphone calls. Surely Cellphones cause aircraft to lose control and crash, or are the airlines just telling you to turn them off for fun? Also, if it IS possible to call the ground perfectly from any height....why are so many airlines making a HUGE deal of their onboard cell ( a technology rolled out only in the last 2 years)? And one final point on the calls....I have NEVER called my mum and said "hi mum, this is Steve CAMPBELL". Then again, yanks are weirdos.

Cellphones don't work from typical cruising altitude for pressurized jet transports (30-40,000 feet). I know because I accidentally realized mine was still turned on once and saw it had no signal over a pretty densely populated area. My plane didn't crash, of course, but I went ahead and turned it off anyway.

And yes, they emit radiation that could cause slight interference with navigation instruments. I imagine it's probably on the level of causing noticeable interference if every seat on the plane has a passenger with one turned on... nothing severe.

According to data released about the flight, when the hijackers took control of the plane they changed course and descended to a low altitude right away, perhaps to make themselves harder to track and shoot down, or perhaps so they could navigate visually. I'm guessing they were low enough to enable passengers' cellphones to be in range of radio towers on the ground.

Certainly a possibility, but then don't airliners handle like a canal boat at low alt?

It's just ODD is all. Especially someone giving their full name to their mum.

BTW, anyone else think that one in Pennsylvania was shot down? I rather suspect it was, and cannot fault the air force for doing it if it was. I believe one of the calls made from that plane contains a loud bang followed by a roar of air.....although I am not at ALL sure of the accuracy of my source on that.

Doctor? wrote: Certainly a possibility, but then don't airliners handle like a canal boat at low alt?

It's just ODD is all. Especially someone giving their full name to their mum.

BTW, anyone else think that one in Pennsylvania was shot down? I rather suspect it was, and cannot fault the air force for doing it if it was. I believe one of the calls made from that plane contains a loud bang followed by a roar of air.....although I am not at ALL sure of the accuracy of my source on that.

Airliners handle equally lousy at just about any altitude.

It makes sense to me that they'd go low if they only knew the very basics of flight control and either weren't skilled enough or didn't want to use navaids like GPS or radio. At that altitude pretty much all you'd see out the very horizontal perspective of a 757 cockpit window is haze, and you'd have to get much lower and probably reduce speed to be able to navigate by visual landmarks.

What's your source on the cellphone transcripts? That sounds either bizarre or made up to me.

The last cell call was a husband to the wife and ended with "Let's Roll", soon after the plane crashed. Though no one is for certian what happened, that is where the idea that the plane went down in a struggle between passengers and terrorists.

On your answer on the Mach 1or above question and why planes weren't there, I think is based on a major misconception of people. Here's a quote from Popular Mechanics article:

"In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent."

Hopefully this helps out a bit

Mr disco 99 wrote:

What's your source on the cellphone transcripts? That sounds either bizarre or made up to me.

Dunno, i think it came from the institute for co-operative research, but I cannot remember how they had flagged it (the colour code the more bizarre conspiracy nutter stuff)

I think you are probably right that they'd have descended and flown VFR, at least when approaching the target.

EdelBrock wrote: The last cell call was a husband to the wife and ended with "Let's Roll", soon after the plane crashed. Though no one is for certian what happened, that is where the idea that the plane went down in a struggle between passengers and terrorists.

On your answer on the Mach 1or above question and why planes weren't there, I think is based on a major misconception of people. Here's a quote from Popular Mechanics article:

"In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent."

Hopefully this helps out a bit

See, that is totally contrary to what I have previously read on the subject, but again, sources are everything. I am inclined to go with what you are saying.

One REALLY scary thing about the attacks is that they demonstrated that all the USA's air defence RaDAR looks outwards, and that for tracking the planes, they were mostly using civilian ATC RaDAR. Yipes, so back in the day, those Bears and Badgers coming over the pole were home free once they got through the border and over the US.

There were, (unreliable) reports of a single engined aircraft being seen in the vicinity of the downed plane, and other witnesses reported seeing it appear below the cloud deck, nose up and on full power....certainly consistent with damage, but also consistent with a nobhead at the controls.

I guess I'm going to be the "google" guy tonight but here's another addition in that same article:

"There was such a jet in the vicinity--a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet owned by the VF Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., an apparel company that markets Wrangler jeans and other brands. The VF plane was flying into Johnstown-Cambria airport, 20 miles north of Shanksville. According to David Newell, VF's director of aviation and travel, the FAA's Cleveland Center contacted copilot Yates Gladwell when the Falcon was at an altitude "in the neighborhood of 3000 to 4000 ft."--not 34,000 ft. "They were in a descent already going into Johnstown," Newell adds. "The FAA asked them to investigate and they did. They got down within 1500 ft. of the ground when they circled. They saw a hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. They pinpointed the location and then continued on." Reached by PM, Gladwell confirmed this account but, concerned about ongoing harassment by conspiracy theorists, asked not to be quoted directly."

If you are interested, it's link is: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

Perhaps more frightening is the most popular link on the Popular Mechanics website just below the 9/11 articles:

"Build a Colonial-Style Storage SHED"

EdelBrock wrote: I guess I'm going to be the "google" guy tonight but here's another addition in that same article:

"There was such a jet in the vicinity--a Dassault Falcon 20 business jet owned by the VF Corp. of Greensboro, N.C., an apparel company that markets Wrangler jeans and other brands. The VF plane was flying into Johnstown-Cambria airport, 20 miles north of Shanksville. According to David Newell, VF's director of aviation and travel, the FAA's Cleveland Center contacted copilot Yates Gladwell when the Falcon was at an altitude "in the neighborhood of 3000 to 4000 ft."--not 34,000 ft. "They were in a descent already going into Johnstown," Newell adds. "The FAA asked them to investigate and they did. They got down within 1500 ft. of the ground when they circled. They saw a hole in the ground with smoke coming out of it. They pinpointed the location and then continued on." Reached by PM, Gladwell confirmed this account but, concerned about ongoing harassment by conspiracy theorists, asked not to be quoted directly."

If you are interested, it's link is: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y

To be perfectly honest I was always dubious about this aircraft being military, because not ONE witness mentioned the most obvious thing about military aircraft......the NOISE!! An F16 is not a quiet plane ;)

PS....on pop mechanics site.....they say that the tonfoil hatters reckon that pic (clearly of a civilian aircraft...military tankers having odd bumps and bulges) smehow prove it was the military. WTF? Besides if it had been the USAF, they'd have missed.

Hmmm. Surely on a thread where people have raised the issue of respect for the victims relatives it seems a wee bit tasteless to then fumble about aimlessly in speculative conspiracy land. Everything you or I know about 9/11 is mediated, whether its from the TV, the 9/11 commission, the internet or Fox fucking Mulder. All the 'facts' that get cited are pretty much entirely relative. All this 9/11 factoid point scoring is just waffle....

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Hmmm. Surely on a thread where people have raised the issue of respect for the victims relatives it seems a wee bit tasteless to then fumble about aimlessly in speculative conspiracy land. Everything you or I know about 9/11 is mediated, whether its from the TV, the 9/11 commission, the internet or Fox fucking Mulder. All the 'facts' that get cited are pretty much entirely relative. All this 9/11 factoid point scoring is just waffle....

I thought we were being rather civilised really?

You're right though, everything is filtered.

What amuses the balls off me is the proper tinfoil hatters who dismiss the "official" line for tiny inconsistencies, then accept all manner of balls (the demonlition thing for instance) on purest fairy faith.

Mr disco 99 wrote: At that altitude pretty much all you'd see out the very horizontal perspective of a 757 cockpit window is haze, and you'd have to get much lower and probably reduce speed to be able to navigate by visual landmarks.

You have to use flaps to see what is in front of you. At a low speed, the nose is going higher as the tail is going down. As you have flaps down, you need more power but you won't get too much speed as the flaps lower the course of the plane.

This message is no part of a conspiracy theory about 9/11, it is just basics of flight.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Hmmm. Surely on a thread where people have raised the issue of respect for the victims relatives it seems a wee bit tasteless to then fumble about aimlessly in speculative conspiracy land. Everything you or I know about 9/11 is mediated, whether its from the TV, the 9/11 commission, the internet or Fox fucking Mulder. All the 'facts' that get cited are pretty much entirely relative. All this 9/11 factoid point scoring is just waffle....

I think it's a lot more approriate to talk about the political causes, implications, and effects--no matter how whacked out they are, than to try and forge a personal connection to something about which you know nothing and couldn't begin to empathize.

C-Ro wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Hmmm. Surely on a thread where people have raised the issue of respect for the victims relatives it seems a wee bit tasteless to then fumble about aimlessly in speculative conspiracy land. Everything you or I know about 9/11 is mediated, whether its from the TV, the 9/11 commission, the internet or Fox fucking Mulder. All the 'facts' that get cited are pretty much entirely relative. All this 9/11 factoid point scoring is just waffle....

I think it's a lot more approriate to talk about the political causes, implications, and effects--no matter how whacked out they are, than to try and forge a personal connection to something about which you know nothing and couldn't begin to empathize.

...which of course isn't remotely pompous......and you contradict yourself (again).....and so we begin again......yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.............

How photographic this one day was..

Was sitting in my dorm room freshman year after my 8-8:50 algebra & trig class, attemping to do my homework, technically easy, but I of course have difficulty with math. No TV and I'm being a good boy and staying off the web. Phone call, roommate's father, asking if he was there. Told him he went to class at 9 (was between 9-9:15), and he told me to turn on the TV, that a plane had hit the WTC and to have Mike (roomie) give him a call when he got in asap. Hung up, shruged, and turned on CNN. Gutted. I had the mental image of a hayseed Cessna (sp) pilot who knew fuck-all about navigation.

Saw the second plane hit, then ran to another kids room, where about half a dozen others were watching in shock. When the first tower fell, I remember laughing in horror and shock, hardly believing what I was seeing was a real event. Still remember the CNN newscaster as it fell "My god...there are no words.."

That was the only time in my life that I felt personally and globally threatened, that it really was "The End of the World, as we know it". That the Lower 48 of the US were under attack and Rochester, NY could be next for something equivalent or worse to what was happening in DC or NYC.

Footnote, remember talking to my on-again, off-again long distance g/f in Michigan, who had just woken up (this around 10 or 11), and she had the same disbelief reaction I did, the news not sinking in until she turned on her TV.

Horrific day in general. My school, of course, cancelled nothing. I had to go to my 4-6 writing & lit class where the prof was acting a cunt and tried to teach the class like nothing happened.

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote:

C-Ro wrote:

(The Good Doctor) Martin Fradley wrote: Hmmm. Surely on a thread where people have raised the issue of respect for the victims relatives it seems a wee bit tasteless to then fumble about aimlessly in speculative conspiracy land. Everything you or I know about 9/11 is mediated, whether its from the TV, the 9/11 commission, the internet or Fox fucking Mulder. All the 'facts' that get cited are pretty much entirely relative. All this 9/11 factoid point scoring is just waffle....

I think it's a lot more approriate to talk about the political causes, implications, and effects--no matter how whacked out they are, than to try and forge a personal connection to something about which you know nothing and couldn't begin to empathize.

...which of course isn't remotely pompous......and you contradict yourself (again).....and so we begin again......yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn.............

How is that pompus? It wasn't self-referencial in anyway at all.

Back to the original question...

Was assisting neighbour with installation of Freeview digital box and was scanning channels when ITV showed a plane hitting tower 2. Neighbour went on to next channel, I said "woh... go back, that's not a film, Crossroads should be on and that's about a crap Hotel in Birmingham". Watched dumbstruck for a few minutes and then finished the installation and went home to watch the rest in shock. Tried to finish decorating my bedroom whilst half watching what was going on. Stopped when the first tower fell, was just getting up to paint again when the other tower fell. Said a prayer that the sister of the then girlfriend had moved offices 2 weeks previous from one of the 2 towers.

remember it like it was yesterday,like most of you i was at work and it came over the radio that a plane (note a plane not a jetliner) had crashed into one of the towers. i can clearly remember saying "how does some dumb cunt flapp his plane into one of them towers??". to which there was musings of the pilot could have had heart attack,committed suicide and so on. then as the reports rolled in it became obvious that this was a world changing event,to which i sent the staff home as most seemed genuinley concerned. looking back now,those few hours during and just after the attack seem like a very bad dream and its still hard to belive that it has happened even now. ive often wondered if bin lardarse had known what a can of worms he was opening up for the islamic world if he had gone ahead,id heard (may be wrong) that they did not expect the towers to collapse but was overjoyed when they did. what a cunt,mind you if i was the pres at the time i would have nuked mecca to even it up.

I was in my second period math class when I heard the news. Another math teacher from the hall came in and told my teacher to turn the TV on. We were taking a quiz. It wasn't even a month after I started high school. A painful memory from my freshman year...