UK Drivers do your bit NOW!

Sarah Kennedy was talking about this proposed car tax scheme on Radio 2. Apparently there is only one month left to register your objection to the 'Pay As You Go' road tax.

The petition is on the 10 Downing St website but they didn't tell anybody about it. Therefore at the time of Sarah's comments only 250,000 people had signed it and 750,000 signatures are required for the goverment to at least take any notice.

Once you've given your details (you don't have to give your full address, just house number and postcode will do), they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you'll have signed the petition.

The government's proposal to introduce road pricing will mean you having to purchase a tracking device for your car and paying a monthly bill to use it. The tracking device will cost about £200 and in a recent study by the BBC, the lowest monthly bill was £28 for a rural florist and £194 for a delivery driver. A non working mother who used the car to take the kids to school paid £86 in one month.

On top of this massive increase in tax, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times. They will also know how fast you have been going, so even if you accidentally creep over a speed limit in time you can probably expect a Notice of Intended Prosecution with your monthly bill.

If you are concerned about this Orwellian plan and want to stop the constant bashing of the car driver, please sign the petition on No 10's new website (link below) and pass this on to as many people as possible. Sign up if you value your freedom and democratic rights -

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax

done it last week Jem.

should be upto about 1.3 mills sigs by now.

It'll never happen Jem. Trust me.

I do find it a bit hard to swallow that 1.25% of the opulation are required to sign a petition before the government take any notice. That because its... erm... well bullshit.

Incidentally Jemma, where did you copy and paste that from?

bus passengers>>>>>> IGNORE!!!

10 Downing st

I've started a petition in favour of it like. While I'm here I want you lot paying a boat load of tax so I can get a nice pension when I decide to move back to England.

Cheers

In the spirit of devils advocate whats the main problem here, is it the information held or the cost?

Its at least a proposal to discourage car use, no one has taken a blind bit of notice to ideas like car pools, everyone bemoans public transport but half those people never use it (qualified statistic that). The planet is going down the tubes, our childrens children will thank us for this.

How do you stop people from using cars - hit them where it hurts - in the wallet.

As for the information, think of the positive uses that could be put to, helping to pinpoint murder suspects, find missing people, the benefit to town planning.

If you carry a phone your already trackable, this is the techno age you got to expect some downs with the ups, as long as you have nothing to hide whats the prob?

Im not saying that its right but it shouldn't be demonised like it is being.

Yes your right - i dont drive.

the goverment are a bit peaved that people found this link and voted ,,,whoes ides was it to do democracy?

the voting is now over a million but no reason to stop ,,,

i never realised.

Missy Jem wrote: they will send you an email with a link in it. Once you click on that link, you will be tracked. Somebody will know where you are at all times.

If you are concerned about the constant bashing of as many people as possible. Sign up if you value your freedom and democratic rights.

I've taken out all the boring stuff Jem, THIS is the real truth...

Possibly not the best time to tell you that the satellite I'm currently working on will provide GPS positioning data down to an accuracy of one metre.

Suggested uses are for highly accurate search and rescue beacons or automatic collision aviodance systems for cars, but most likely it'll just be what the compulsory transmitter on the dashboard of your car sends it's data to.

They can already do this without you knowing it,you even willingly carry the tracker round with you.

How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

Not as easy as it is to sit in a pool of on-board OAP's piss,tho Martin

Last time I was on a bus,five years or more ago I was carrying a large cuddly toy prezzie for my new born(a lion) And all the burds,and old dears were coming onto me,believe it or not...

I carry that lion with me everywhere now

It would be political suicide for any Government that tries to bring this daft scheme in..Won't happen.

Uncle Liam wrote: Incidentally Jemma, where did you copy and paste that from?

Another website I go on, why? It's relevant.

Boatraceface wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

It would be political suicide for any Government that tries to bring this daft scheme in..Won't happen.

"Political suicide" almost seems to have been adopted as central party policy for the current administration, no??!!

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

No chance mate if you live in London with Oyster. TfL/Mr Livingstone's baby can track you everywhere you go and if you want to pay cash and stay annoymous you get penalised by high fares. This will probably get rolled out for public transport fares across the UK in the next few years and Big Brother is definately watching you! Cheers!

Boatraceface wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

Not as easy as it is to sit in a pool of on-board OAP's piss,tho Martin

Last time I was on a bus,five years or more ago I was carrying a large cuddly toy prezzie for my new born(a lion) And all the burds,and old dears were coming onto me,believe it or not...

I carry that lion with me everywhere now

It would be political suicide for any Government that tries to bring this daft scheme in..Won't happen.

LOL! I love it when the daft old dears (sic) spend hours asking the driver where the bus goes when a 1ft sign tells them exactly the same destination! Cheers!

Doctor Clayhead wrote:

Boatraceface wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

It would be political suicide for any Government that tries to bring this daft scheme in..Won't happen.

"Political suicide" almost seems to have been adopted as central party policy for the current administration, no??!!

Can't argue with that,but will the ever tolerant British public stand for this on top of everything else? Doubt it..

The most baffling thing about this government for me, is how Prescott is still in a job? He must have some serious dirt on Blair & Brown,when they dismiss all the shit he's pulled with "oh,John is just John"

He should have been sacked half a dozen times at least. He must have photos of Blair being bummed..

Boatraceface wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote:

Boatraceface wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

It would be political suicide for any Government that tries to bring this daft scheme in..Won't happen.

"Political suicide" almost seems to have been adopted as central party policy for the current administration, no??!!

The most baffling thing about this government for me, is how Prescott is still in a job? He must have some serious dirt on Blair & Brown,when they dismiss all the shit he's pulled with "oh,John is just John"

He should have been sacked half a dozen times at least. He must have photos of Blair being bummed..

Never a truer word spoken in jest mate. In all honesty the only way to make politician's - of all persuasions, listen these days is through direct action - like gridlocking a motorway or major city centre or something and even then they'll still probably introduce road pricing. IMO it's nothing to do with saving the planet etc. as if the political will was really there we could have hydrogen/renewable energy powered vehicles in use by now. However Bush etc. and the oil barons want to milk every last bit of oil out of the earth before we shift to something more environmentally friendly. Also where are the incentives to shift to public transport from this government as outside London we still have clapped out buses in operation in our major cities and tram systems planned for Edinburgh, Liverpool and Leeds have been refused due to a lack of funding caused by this goverment blowing +£20bn on a Olympics we don't want/need. It's all about raising extra tax revenue and/or more worryingly tracking where you're goining IMO! Cheers!

Where can I sign to demand us public transport users not have to pay for using buses and trains? Why is it regarded as a big deal that people being asked to pay for something don't want to?

One thing that puzzles me is why right wing newspapers, suddernly turn into communists, demanding things be free at the point of use, when it comes to roads. Why aren't they campaigning against food-pricing, say?

Anyway, I'm sick of breathing in the horrible shite you drivers put into my air. About time you paid me compensation!

(I note a recent study found that children living near major roads suffer retarded lung development)

I'm in a minority of one here, aren't I?

Alan Paul Kitching wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: How's about if you value your freedom and democratic rights, take the fucking bus??!!

Ain't nobody'll be tracking you then. Easy to skip the fare, too......

No chance mate if you live in London with Oyster. TfL/Mr Livingstone's baby can track you everywhere you go and if you want to pay cash and stay annoymous you get penalised by high fares. This will probably get rolled out for public transport fares across the UK in the next few years and Big Brother is definately watching you! Cheers!

If you want anonynimity, just don't register your Oyster card - simple. It's suprising how idiot criminals sometimes attack people on buses after they've scanned their (registered) card, making it easy to catch them.

It's a stupid system anyway, in South London it's crap as it doesn't work on the overground and we don't have the tube. Plus you can never find a shop with a working Oyster machine to put any money on the wretched thing. Plus you can't find out how much money is on it till you've waited an eternity and borded the bus, then you find its run out.

404 error wrote: It's a stupid system anyway, in South London it's crap as it doesn't work on the overground and we don't have the tube.

Too right mate. As someone who works for TfL - one of the grunts not the bosses I'm affraid my staff travel pass is configured as Oyster pre-pay which means it's not valid on National Rail. Also it mystifies me why my boseese ensured Oyster pre-pay got installed at National Rail stations in NW London where the Underground runs almost parallel to them and do absolutely nothing about putting it in place for rail stations in South London? It could also be 2009/10 before it's on National Rail in London so why isn't Mr Livingstone etc. putting pressure on the rail operators to have it up and running ASAP? Cheers!

toll the whole country.

leave us out!!

King John Honest John wrote: toll the whole country.

leave us out!!

Practically Yanks now anyway ar'nt yers?

I can't vouch for anywhere else, but while the bus system in Stoke is crap (as it also was when I lived in Norwich and Aberdeen), here in Manchester the buses are so ridiculously cheap and reliable it almost makes me want to cry.

For example: last job involved commuting between Stoke, Manc and Brum = £60 a week in me petrol tank.

Now, post-car, I pay £3 for a weekly bus ticket to get to/from work.

Hallelujah! And I'm still to meet a total nutter on the bus yet.....

But doesnt the £3 weekly bus ticket put you in the hands of a lot of genuinely psychotic polish immigrants?

Uncle Liam wrote: But doesnt the £3 weekly bus ticket put you in the hands of a lot of genuinely psychotic polish immigrants?

Er, travelling up and down the Wilmslow Road I'm generally surrounded by students who, as far as I can tell, are neither Polish nor psychotic.

Perhaps I'm missing something?

The actual bus drivers...

Doctor Clayhead wrote: I can't vouch for anywhere else, but while the bus system in Stoke is crap (as it also was when I lived in Norwich and Aberdeen), here in Manchester the buses are so ridiculously cheap and reliable it almost makes me want to cry.

For example: last job involved commuting between Stoke, Manc and Brum = £60 a week in me petrol tank.

Now, post-car, I pay £3 for a weekly bus ticket to get to/from work.

Hallelujah! And I'm still to meet a total nutter on the bus yet.....

HELLO-is this BUS going to the G-MEX?

I can't DRIVE but find PUBLIC transport CRAP around where i live.Yet when i go to LONDON i rather ENJOY it.Till they chuck me OFF!

Jeremy Clarkson may be a nutter with a popshield for a hairdo, but he uttered much wisdom on this.

We already HAVE a fair system of road pricing, whereby, those who drive more, pay more, and those who choose appallingly inefficient vehicles pay through the nose, it's called fuel tax.

Based on that, rather obvious and correct assessment, it seems clear this has fuck all to do with transport and everything to do with building a national monitoring system to track people's movements. And given the Govt's record on IT realted things ( 12billion or so to Mr Gates from oour health service, for...well....erm fuck all actually, nothing, not a line of code, just selling off kidney machines to line that cunt's pockets), I think we can see a major fuck up becoming a truly biblical disaster.

What. this is truly bizarre. in effect this will mean that every road will be a toll road. have i got this right?

I even refuse to get an e-tag for the toll roads in Sydney.

King John Honest John wrote: toll the whole country.

leave us out!!

You're opting out of the Euro and sticking with the Giro.

Cheers

SiLeakHunt wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: toll the whole country.

leave us out!!

You're opting out of the Euro and sticking with the Giro.

Cheers

BTW...Krung thep, is a SERIOUS abbreviation, dare you to fit the full title into your avatar

Uncle Liam wrote: The actual bus drivers...

I think you'll find I'd be worried if I was an pedestrian, cyclist or another car driver, but as a passenger in the hands of (I agree!) wildly aggressive bus drivers I feel relatively safe.

Buses are pretty big and sturdy, y'know....

Doctor? wrote: Jeremy Clarkson may be a nutter with a popshield for a hairdo, but he uttered much wisdom on this.

We already HAVE a fair system of road pricing, whereby, those who drive more, pay more, and those who choose appallingly inefficient vehicles pay through the nose, it's called fuel tax.

Based on that, rather obvious and correct assessment, it seems clear this has fuck all to do with transport and everything to do with building a national monitoring system to track people's movements. And given the Govt's record on IT realted things ( 12billion or so to Mr Gates from oour health service, for...well....erm fuck all actually, nothing, not a line of code, just selling off kidney machines to line that cunt's pockets), I think we can see a major fuck up becoming a truly biblical disaster.

That's not really true though, fuel tax is a crude instrument, because it doesn't take into account _where_ you drive and _when_ you drive. Roads are a scarce resource that have to be rationed somehow. There's a difference in the value of driving on roads in central london in the rush hour, when everyone wants to use the space, and on a country lane which is otherwise empty. Fuel tax doesn't account for that, nor does it account for the fact that pollution pumped out in a crowded city causes far more harm to others than if its on a motorway miles from any housing.

Its like paying for food out of a general 'food tax' that ignores what you eat, where and when.

On the other hand, somehow I doubt that road pricing would be a 'revenue neutral' measure, i.e. I doubt fuel tax or road tax will go down when road pricing comes in. Just like if councils start charging by weight for rubbish collection I doubt council tax will go down. If people were able to trust the government on that I reckon there'd be much less opposition. With the opposition there is you are probably right that it won't work, it'll probably end up like the CSA, costing more to administer than it collects.

I really don't think its about 'tracking people's movements'. Frankly that seems mad to me. Tracking movements is just a side-effect of charging for something. Do you complain about the phone company knowing who you phone because they monitor that in order to know how much to charge? If you use a service you have to pay for it, and to pay for it people have to record that you've used it. If you don't want it recorded, don't use the service, simple.

Anyway, people seem addicted to driving, and no amount of charging seems to deter them, so it probably won't actually reduce congestion anyway. 40 years ago most people didn't drive, yet now somehow its become almost compulsory.

Doctor Clayhead wrote: I can't vouch for anywhere else, but while the bus system in Stoke is crap (as it also was when I lived in Norwich and Aberdeen), here in Manchester the buses are so ridiculously cheap and reliable it almost makes me want to cry.

For example: last job involved commuting between Stoke, Manc and Brum = £60 a week in me petrol tank.

Now, post-car, I pay £3 for a weekly bus ticket to get to/from work.

Hallelujah! And I'm still to meet a total nutter on the bus yet.....

£3 a week!?! it would more than that a day here in the south

hibster wrote:

Doctor Clayhead wrote: I can't vouch for anywhere else, but while the bus system in Stoke is crap (as it also was when I lived in Norwich and Aberdeen), here in Manchester the buses are so ridiculously cheap and reliable it almost makes me want to cry.

For example: last job involved commuting between Stoke, Manc and Brum = £60 a week in me petrol tank.

Now, post-car, I pay £3 for a weekly bus ticket to get to/from work.

Hallelujah! And I'm still to meet a total nutter on the bus yet.....

£3 a week!?! it would more than that a day here in the south

Yeah, my jaw hit the floor as well....great, innit?

Thing is, everyone drives between 8 and 9 because everyone starts work at 9.....so you will not drive folks off the roads at that hour.

Funny you mention phones, they too can trck you, a triangulation from 3 nearby masts will give your position to about 30m accuracy!!!