D.I.Y. advise required

Out of all my fellow Noolers...I'm hoping some of you will have some decorating experience and be able to help me out.

The problem is that the paint on the textured ceilings is peeling off, so repainting is not an option until the old stuff is removed, as it's so bumpy scraping it off is a stupidly time consuming task, using a steamer on it has helped slightly but it's still a nightmare. Anyone got any tips?

Taking the artex or whatever the crap is off to the level of the original plaster is a possibility but from what little I know likely to be even more of a pain to do. though least it will look better once it's done?!?!?

HELP! Cheers

best to pull down the whole house.

and build again.

Minx wrote: is a stupidly time consuming task, using a steamer on it has helped slightly but it's still a nightmare. Anyone got any tips?

yeah one final one. roll your purple sleeves up and get stuck in lazy arse.

Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

or,you could always look in yellow pages for a decorator,

have someone repair it and stucko ceiling it.if its rainy over there, get it done soon.my ceiling is stucko (not the flaky kind) its strong n everything but i don'tknow,kinda ask around....

gazman wrote: Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

I don't advise this, as the dust from plaster would make an even greater mess, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing, not to mention it getting in your lungs.

Try wetting down the ceiling with water spray, this might not work if the paint is a high gloss but should if its flat paint. But unfortunately, good elbow grease and a good metal paint scrapper is the best way to do this.

Also, you dan't have to scrap off ALL the paint, only the stuff that is flaking, or soon to be flaking off. Good luck

Personally I would simply get a roller and apply some poly ripple. This stuff sticks to poor surfaces well, and will mask minor imperfections. Its available from all good DIY stores.

I am not an expert in decorative paints but I work with industrial one and at the first glance I can say your new paint could be not compatible with an old coat, erm.... something like that.

EdelBrock wrote:

gazman wrote: Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

I don't advise this, as the dust from plaster would make an even greater mess, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing, not to mention it getting in your lungs.

It was a joke,

Can you post a picture as it would be better to understand your issue....

King John Honest John wrote:

Minx wrote: is a stupidly time consuming task, using a steamer on it has helped slightly but it's still a nightmare. Anyone got any tips?

yeah one final one. roll your purple sleeves up and get stuck in lazy arse.

I'll have you know my overalls are are nice shade of navy blue (with assorted colours of paint splodges and dust and bits of pollyfiller and plaster)

EdelBrock wrote:

gazman wrote: Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

I don't advise this, as the dust from plaster would make an even greater mess, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing, not to mention it getting in your lungs.

Try wetting down the ceiling with water spray, this might not work if the paint is a high gloss but should if its flat paint. But unfortunately, good elbow grease and a good metal paint scrapper is the best way to do this.

Also, you dan't have to scrap off ALL the paint, only the stuff that is flaking, or soon to be flaking off. Good luck

That's what I thought and have been attempting,(*though can't use a flat metal paint scrapper on it as it's too bumpy)... it's just SO tedious:(

*Unless Do you mean try to remove the whole artex/cruddy stuff?

darran clarke wrote: Personally I would simply get a roller and apply some poly ripple. This stuff sticks to poor surfaces well, and will mask minor imperfections. Its available from all good DIY stores.

Not sure if the fact that the paint is so flaky wouldn't mean that it wouldn't adhere properly

Ask ROCKET

Or get Jemma to come round and do it

Leggy D wrote: Ask ROCKET

Or get Jemma to come round and do it

Best tip so far

Minx wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

gazman wrote: Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

I don't advise this, as the dust from plaster would make an even greater mess, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing, not to mention it getting in your lungs.

Try wetting down the ceiling with water spray, this might not work if the paint is a high gloss but should if its flat paint. But unfortunately, good elbow grease and a good metal paint scrapper is the best way to do this.

Also, you dan't have to scrap off ALL the paint, only the stuff that is flaking, or soon to be flaking off. Good luck

That's what I thought and have been attempting,(*though can't use a flat metal paint scrapper on it as it's too bumpy)... it's just SO tedious:(

*Unless Do you mean try to remove the whole artex/cruddy stuff?

Could you post a picture?

It sounds as if you have "popcorn" ceilings with paint coming off? Haven't seen that before....my guess is they used an oil based paint which does agree with popcorn ceilings....if so the popcorn needs to be stripped off, but hard to tell without a picture.....

EdelBrock wrote:

Minx wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

gazman wrote: Electric sander the ceiling,then plaster over the top of it,

I don't advise this, as the dust from plaster would make an even greater mess, you wouldn't be able to see what you're doing, not to mention it getting in your lungs.

Try wetting down the ceiling with water spray, this might not work if the paint is a high gloss but should if its flat paint. But unfortunately, good elbow grease and a good metal paint scrapper is the best way to do this.

Also, you dan't have to scrap off ALL the paint, only the stuff that is flaking, or soon to be flaking off. Good luck

That's what I thought and have been attempting,(*though can't use a flat metal paint scrapper on it as it's too bumpy)... it's just SO tedious:(

*Unless Do you mean try to remove the whole artex/cruddy stuff?

Could you post a picture?

It sounds as if you have "popcorn" ceilings with paint coming off? Haven't seen that before....my guess is they used an oil based paint which does agree with popcorn ceilings....if so the popcorn needs to be stripped off, but hard to tell without a picture.....

Tis my Ex's new flat that I'm working on, I'm at home now after escaping under the guise of figuring out what to do next on the Internet... It's definitely emulsion that's flaking off not gloss, but as to what the heck the stuff is underneath I'm not sure... prob artex????? I'll be heading back to try to tackle it soon so will take my camera with me...

Thanks for all the help

Surely the most sensible thing to do is to do a light skim of plaster over the artex, seal it with some watered down emulsion and then do a couple of layers of emulsion to finish it off nicely.

Why cant your ex sort this out for himself?? He doesnt sound like a gentleman, leaving manual labour to the fairer sex???

Scrapers are next to useless for removing paint from artex, and I've never found steamers much better. Try a wire brush to remove the worst flakes/lose paint, then wash celling in a solution of hot water and sugar-soap (available from good D.I.Y stores, or B&Q etc). As emulsion is a water based paint the hot water/sugar soap should clean it well enough to repaint, once flakes are removed. Sorry but no easy solutions, the main ingredients are hard work & elbow grease. A word of warning: Do you know how old the artex is? Artex applied prior to the mid 1970s may contain asbestos. So if you think it's that old don't fuck about with it, i.e sand it or break bits off it! After all the work involved you'll be chuffed when it's done; "I done that!" Good luck!

Kevin Smith wrote: Surely the most sensible thing to do is to do a light skim of plaster over the artex, seal it with some watered down emulsion and then do a couple of layers of emulsion to finish it off nicely.

Unfortunately the paint is far too flaky for the plaster to adhere to properly.

darran clarke wrote: Why cant your ex sort this out for himself?? He doesnt sound like a gentleman, leaving manual labour to the fairer sex???

What a terribly old fashioned view point.... He is helping of course, but I have more D.I.Y. knowledge and experience than him which is why I offered to help.

MIMX wrote: Scrapers are next to useless for removing paint from artex, and I've never found steamers much better. Try a wire brush to remove the worst flakes/lose paint, then wash celling in a solution of hot water and sugar-soap (available from good D.I.Y stores, or B&Q etc). As emulsion is a water based paint the hot water/sugar soap should clean it well enough to repaint, once flakes are removed. Sorry but no easy solutions, the main ingredients are hard work & elbow grease. A word of warning: Do you know how old the artex is? Artex applied prior to the mid 1970s may contain asbestos. So if you think it's that old don't fuck about with it, i.e sand it or break bits off it! After all the work involved you'll be chuffed when it's done; "I done that!" Good luck!

Yup, first thing I did was check for the date that asbestos was stopped.... fortunately the flats were built more recently so that's not an issue. I've got sugar soap left from doing the walls.. not sure if a wire brush might take off the 'points' of the artex/whatever finish and make it look worse Though I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Thanks

Minx wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Surely the most sensible thing to do is to do a light skim of plaster over the artex, seal it with some watered down emulsion and then do a couple of layers of emulsion to finish it off nicely.

Unfortunately the paint is far too flaky for the plaster to adhere to properly.

Are you sure? It would normally assimilate into the plaster and the plaster would grip the artex below it. If it's that loose, just use a wire brush and then skim it. Do you have a neighbour that is good at DIY for an opinion on this? Another alternative is to put a new plaster board up and slightly reduce the height of your ceiling.

Kevin Smith wrote:

Minx wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Surely the most sensible thing to do is to do a light skim of plaster over the artex, seal it with some watered down emulsion and then do a couple of layers of emulsion to finish it off nicely.

Unfortunately the paint is far too flaky for the plaster to adhere to properly.

Are you sure? It would normally assimilate into the plaster and the plaster would grip the artex below it. If it's that loose, just use a wire brush and then skim it. Do you have a neighbour that is good at DIY for an opinion on this? Another alternative is to put a new plaster board up and slightly reduce the height of your ceiling.

I was taught that in order to plaster correctly that the surface has to be 'sound' ie as clean, dust and flake free as is possible (obviously depending on the surface)

Alas no friendly skilled neighbours about to ask.

As far as fitting plaster board over it, skimming it and then painting it, I'm REALLY hoping to avoid having to do that as the task was just to paint the bloody thing.(ever wish you had never started something)

Thanks though

First, you don't really have plaster do you? Its drywall isn't it? Basically can you push a thumbtack in the wall? If so its drywall not plaster....it makes a big difference.

Second, you are right, the quality of the end product does depend on the drywall being fairly clean, but if you put on a thick coat of mud it wouldn't matter.....other than trying to make it not noticable.

I wouldn't just put drywall over drywall, as you need to attach it directly to the studs, especially on the ceiling. The only way to do it correctly would be to replace it completely. But that of course would be a last resort.

Where's that picture?

Sorry for not getting back sooner... Thanks for ALL the advise

The ceiling is probably finished..... (I left Rob to do it today as I was too ill to help)

Getting the paint off was near on impossible so we just removed all the crappy Artex stuff... found by trial and error the easiest way was to roller the ceiling with really hot water, (with a bit of washing up liquid in it, to act as a wetting agent) leave it for 10 mins repeat 3 times then just use a paint scraper to take it off back to the ceiling... plaster board AND plastered areas.

I wanted to then stick on a thin layer of plaster and skim it to a nice smooth surface, but Rob opted for the buying Artex and slapping that on route as he was sick to death of the whole thing and figured it would be quicker and easier. (well it is HIS flat )

Once again thanks guys

If you're done there, can you come round and help me finish my bathroom, please?

Igloo need patching up????

Send me the plane tickets and I'll see what I can do

Kevin Smith wrote:

Minx wrote:

Kevin Smith wrote: Surely the most sensible thing to do is to do a light skim of plaster over the artex, seal it with some watered down emulsion and then do a couple of layers of emulsion to finish it off nicely.

Unfortunately the paint is far too flaky for the plaster to adhere to properly.

Another alternative is to put a new plaster board up and slightly reduce the height of your ceiling.

Minx all done.. A kick waiting for the Contractor to show up as I'm typing. Just wrapping up two weeks of work that is ending up w/ Three floors and five apartments. Incl. collapsed ceiling :\party: Ideally no- body has to be living on site while the job is done. Depends on how much and what kind of Dust (Ceiling scape or fresh Drywall) is dealt w/ and time spent. Obviously a smooth finish is near impossible to achieve. There are Spay cans of sorts of the said Popcorn- type ceiling material as an option. GLuck

realy dont envy you on this one minx my dear, i spent six weeks doing my bedroom celing. aplied 13 coats of paint/p.v.a.solution, only to paper it and it cracked 4 hours later, peeled it all of the next day then applied some heavy duty stain stop paint, like none drip gloss, to it, and finaly three coates of emulsion later the bastard was finished:dead: hope it all went well

old lead foot wrote: the next day then applied some heavy duty stain stop paint, like none drip gloss, to it, and finaly three coates of emulsion later the bastard was finished:dead: hope it all went well

See there's the Fresco missed opportunity. Had a friend do similar. Worked for four weeks at removing the Spraytex (called Artex?! overseas w/ you). He sanded, cleaned, Painted and painted some more. Wasn't happy with the results. The slight shades variations under different lights. If it'd been Renaissance might've taken advantange..

Quite like the irregular satin smoothness that a painted, not rolled, surface can have. If it's just a repair of partial areas then the rolled nobbly material is avail in Bulk Pails, small spray just for the join between wall and ceiling. Or even commercially applied is an option. Minx. PS- wishes that you're feeling better.

Whoops, too late to give you my advice, but glad you got it sorted out.

old lead foot wrote: realy dont envy you on this one minx my dear, i spent six weeks doing my bedroom celing...

I regularly spend 12 hours on my bathroom floor.

Do I win £40?