Americans Right to Bear Arms

FANTASTIC!

We chuck eggs at our politicians, and get punched in the face for our troubles.

Check this guy:

He's got a fucking nine mill strapped to his leg, and he's there to see the President. The sign he's holding refers to a famous quotation from Thomas Jefferson, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants". It's a favourite quote of some white power group or other.

And he's not even doing anything wrong!!!

I bet the situation would have changed quite rapidly if he'd drawn that bad boy.

The Report is as fascinating as it is Sad. BA is having more death threats than any other American President.

Err, but isn't there only the one

ShugZV wrote: What the fuck's happened to Chevvy Chase

He's turned into a slightly overweight, gun-toting Glenn Roeder??

Diamond 383 wrote: The Report is as fascinating as it is Sad. BA is having more death threats than any other American President.

Err, but isn't there only the one

And everyone (well, all the septics) said I was igorant and retarded to suggest he would be treated worse than whitey presidents are.

Yeah cause this is a real doozy of a threat:

"One day God is going to stand before you and judge you!" one protester shouted at him earlier this week.

As for the guy with the pistol? He tried to make the news and did it. Not seeing him try to draw it or anything. There have been plenty of left-wing crazies rushing in and making threats to Republicans as well... funny how it simply gets more news cause we are all uppity over Obama's race... take anything and make it because of race... maybe its cause of policy? just maybe?

You are therefor saying that his are the most objectionable policies in history?

There are no left wingers in the USA Edel, only "less right wing".

And that threat would be terrifying to a christian (meaningless to a rational human of course), so assuming the shouter was a god botherer, it was the most awful threat they could think of.

BTW......did anyone see the story about the guy being prosecuted for letting his daughter die, because instead of giving her insulin, he prayed that the sky fairy would heal her instead? Surely before he is found guilty of ANY kind of neglegence, the prosecution must first prove that he had no reasonable expectation of help from the aofrementioned deity. Should be an interesting case in that respect, prosecutors have to proove the non-existence, or at least non-involvement of god, the defence basically have to produce the alledged almighty, or a sworn deposition from him, in court in order to prove that prayer was just as reasonable a thing to do as calling 911. At any rate, with that fucktard for a parent, the poor little mite's probably better off now.

PS.....all of you outside the US probably do not realise what the 2nd ammendment is REALLY for.....it's to make sure the govt are more afraid of the people, than the people are afraid of the govt. This is basically a good thing, and while it does lead to guns being involved where they would not be in a more developed/literate nation, it has to be pointed out that criminals are unlikely to respect firearms laws, so a ban on guns would only affect the innocent, and those who would otherwise choose a firearm as the instrument of Darwin. Certainly it would be nice to think that fat fuck Brown would have cause to be scared, would it not? Stick that on your database big bro.

EdelBrock wrote: maybe its cause of policy? just maybe?

So assassination threats play a legitimate part in your politics?

What's wrong with his policies?

Diamond 383 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: maybe its cause of policy? just maybe?

So assassination threats play a legitimate part in your politics?

What's wrong with his politics?

Apparently he has some really derranaged and extremist policies like better healthcare for the non-rich, the fucking wanker!

I know loads of right-wing Americans and they we're all planning to hate his policies before they heard what they were. More than one of them confided in me that his term would likely end waaaaay before the full eight years.

He's got a very shadowy past, apparently.

I'd have more respect for Americans who just came out and said that they want the black cunt dead, rather than all this shit about his policies.

Just saying, like.

By us, our mighty president Sarkozy and key ministers receive 9mm bullets by the post.

sadly in england we only have the right to bare arms when it's sunny. thats why so few people are killed with guns. fact.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: and another thing...where the fuck was that picture taken???

you can't wear a holstered gun in Texas, and I thought we were the end all/be all for gun rights in the States???

You can wear a holstered gun, as long as EVERYONE can see it and the gun has a permit. (though I'm sure the police would hassle you every block or so). You need a special permit for a concealed weapon.

Diamond 383 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: maybe its cause of policy? just maybe?

So assassination threats play a legitimate part in your politics?

What's wrong with his policies?

So tell me how the qoute:

"One day God is going to stand before you and judge you!" one protester shouted at him earlier this week.

Is a threat towards an assasination? It simply states the a truth (if you believe in God). We will all be judged by God. It's similar to what I like to tell people randomly "I hope you get what you deserve". Its funny how many people take such an offense to that, which goes to show what they think they deserve, eh?

The quote isn't a death threat, but media taking a quote out of context to try to make it seem like something it isn't.

Its just the Dems playing the race card to try to advance a really poor and expensive health care program: if yer against it you must be a racist!

Pathetic, truely it is.

Doctor? wrote:

Diamond 383 wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: maybe its cause of policy? just maybe?

So assassination threats play a legitimate part in your politics?

What's wrong with his politics?

Apparently he has some really derranaged and extremist policies like better healthcare for the non-rich, the fucking wanker!

The spin on the "healthcare for the poor" is twisting issues. There already is a healthcare for the poor, its called the emergency room. Go to the local ER and its clogged with people that should be visiting regular doctors for stupid crap like colds and fevers. The idea that the poor don't have ANY healthcare is misleading. Is it CRAP, well yes it is, and no good for people that have a real emergency.

The price tag on Obama's plan is way too much, especially considering the problems we are having with the economy. Does something need to be done? Yes, but how about we first reduce costs within the hospitals and medicines. My daughter broke her arm and it cost $5,000! Fortunately I had insurance so it cost me $1000 out of pocket. The government paying outrageous prices will only get us deeper in debt quicker.

For the supposed poor that can't purchase health insurance, well that's Darwin in full effect. The last few years I have been scapping by, and I mean really scrapping by, and I still bought health insurance for my family, not the best, but it was reliable.

All people die, don't want to protect yerself, well fine by me... but I'm not paying for a lazy bastard who doesn't want to do anything with thier lives.

This country slowly rewards those that are irresponsible, its time people feel the effects and consquences for thier actions. Let it come tumbling all over thier heads.

Doctor? wrote:

PS.....all of you outside the US probably do not realise what the 2nd ammendment is REALLY for.....it's to make sure the govt are more afraid of the people, than the people are afraid of the govt. This is basically a good thing, and while it does lead to guns being involved where they would not be in a more developed/literate nation, it has to be pointed out that criminals are unlikely to respect firearms laws, so a ban on guns would only affect the innocent, and those who would otherwise choose a firearm as the instrument of Darwin.

:D

Good point about greedy AMERICAN drug companies, I could not agree more, they are profiteering vermin. As for health insurance, I kinda take that personally, because anyone with an ongoing thing like mine is, well, fucked. No insurer would pay out for ten years for the same condition, in fact they'd just refuse to let me renew, or let me renew but not payout because the condition was "pre-existing". Even without that, I cannot imagine having to spend months fighting to have a bill paid every time I sprain a wrist, it's not like insurance companies like to pay is it.

And as for healthcare being Darwin.....well, it doesn't penalise the right people, ecconomic matters in no way pertain to survival of the fittest, poor parents do not have poor children, if they did, it would make the American Dream a bit hard to attain. And it doesn't really matter if Cleetus dies from his syphillis, if he's already fathered 27 kids around the trailer park.

Oh and Colin didn't mean the sky fairy quote, he meant the one about "watering the tree of liberty", Although I'm not sure if Billy-Ray-Jim-Bo-Bubba-Bob there means that Satan's Negro is a patriot or a tyrant.

Doctor? wrote: Good point about greedy AMERICAN drug companies, I could not agree more, they are profiteering vermin. As for health insurance, I kinda take that personally, because anyone with an ongoing thing like mine is, well, fucked. No insurer would pay out for ten years for the same condition, in fact they'd just refuse to let me renew, or let me renew but not payout because the condition was "pre-existing". Even without that, I cannot imagine having to spend months fighting to have a bill paid every time I sprain a wrist, it's not like insurance companies like to pay is it.

And as for healthcare being Darwin.....well, it doesn't penalise the right people, ecconomic matters in no way pertain to survival of the fittest, poor parents do not have poor children, if they did, it would make the American Dream a bit hard to attain. And it doesn't really matter if Cleetus dies from his syphillis, if he's already fathered 27 kids around the trailer park.

Oh and Colin didn't mean the sky fairy quote, he meant the one about "watering the tree of liberty", Although I'm not sure if Billy-Ray-Jim-Bo-Bubba-Bob there means that Satan's Negro is a patriot or a tyrant.

I completely agree with you Cambo. Where Government needs to be in the healthcare system is in regulation NOT as an insurer. Preexisting conditions have been a loophole for many of the insurance companies, but there is a point to it also (but widely abused). You can't have a small percentage of people absorbing all the costs of the rest of the insurance holders, but at the same time, there should be a modified health insurance even if they won't insure you for the existing condition to take care of health outside the condition.

But the main issue is cost. Your preexisting condition is scary without insurance simply because of the costs you would have to pay on your own. There is an accepted silliness to our system. Once I hurt myself on a civilian job and went to the employers medical provider. The place forced me to take a bottle of Tylonol of 15 pills for $30 (and this was in 1995). Even when I refused, they stated point blank that they would charge the company even if I didn't take it so i might as well take it. Its this kind of price gouging that is just insane.

Fix that first, THEN talk about a government healthcare system... Obama puts the cart before the horse, on a very steep incline.

miss rita would not let thick as shit of pig people carry watering pistols never mind guns.

EdelBrock wrote:

So tell me how the qoute:

"One day God is going to stand before you and judge you!" one protester shouted at him earlier this week.

Is a threat towards an assasination?

It isn't. But the quote "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" is.

Trying to extend free healthcare for everybody in a wealthy country like yours is surely something that God would smile upon.

If I told anyone in the UK that they would be charged £5 for a broken arm, never mind £5k, they would be furious. In fact there is a charge at the A&E Units for anyone who appears there as a result of being in a car accident and it is very unpopular (or it might not apply any more, I've not heard of it for years).

The guy sitting next to me now had cancer last year. He paid a couple of hundred quid to have initial scans done privately then returned to the NHS for a major operation and all of his follow-on care. As he said to me last night; it's nice that all of his tax money came back to him when he needed it. And that's the point. Everyone pays in according to what they can afford and everyone gets the service that they need. Of course there will be people who contribute less than they should, and of course there will be people who need more than others.

To someone like me who's grown up to view world-class heathcare to be a fundamental right of citizenship, it seems barbaric to even contemplate withholding that heathcare from members of the community simply because they cannot afford to pay.

Nothing is perfect, there are flaws in our system and it could use more funding. But it's never let me or anyone I know down and I wouldn't change it for anything.

Good luck with opposing yours though. £5k to reset your daughters arm must seem a fair price to pay for your liberty or whatever it is you're defending.

EdelBrock wrote:

Doctor? wrote: Good point about greedy AMERICAN drug companies, I could not agree more, they are profiteering vermin. As for health insurance, I kinda take that personally, because anyone with an ongoing thing like mine is, well, fucked. No insurer would pay out for ten years for the same condition, in fact they'd just refuse to let me renew, or let me renew but not payout because the condition was "pre-existing". Even without that, I cannot imagine having to spend months fighting to have a bill paid every time I sprain a wrist, it's not like insurance companies like to pay is it.

And as for healthcare being Darwin.....well, it doesn't penalise the right people, ecconomic matters in no way pertain to survival of the fittest, poor parents do not have poor children, if they did, it would make the American Dream a bit hard to attain. And it doesn't really matter if Cleetus dies from his syphillis, if he's already fathered 27 kids around the trailer park.

Oh and Colin didn't mean the sky fairy quote, he meant the one about "watering the tree of liberty", Although I'm not sure if Billy-Ray-Jim-Bo-Bubba-Bob there means that Satan's Negro is a patriot or a tyrant.

I completely agree with you Cambo. Where Government needs to be in the healthcare system is in regulation NOT as an insurer. Preexisting conditions have been a loophole for many of the insurance companies, but there is a point to it also (but widely abused). You can't have a small percentage of people absorbing all the costs of the rest of the insurance holders, but at the same time, there should be a modified health insurance even if they won't insure you for the existing condition to take care of health outside the condition.

But the main issue is cost. Your preexisting condition is scary without insurance simply because of the costs you would have to pay on your own. There is an accepted silliness to our system. Once I hurt myself on a civilian job and went to the employers medical provider. The place forced me to take a bottle of Tylonol of 15 pills for $30 (and this was in 1995). Even when I refused, they stated point blank that they would charge the company even if I didn't take it so i might as well take it. Its this kind of price gouging that is just insane.

Fix that first, THEN talk about a government healthcare system... Obama puts the cart before the horse, on a very steep incline.

Either way, in the US I'd have been allowed to die, end of debate as far as I am concerned. Any country where people sit and watch others die has no place to preach on how to run a world. Let's hope nobody dear to you develops anything that exceeds your income when the insurers wiggle out of paying.

EdelBrock wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: and another thing...where the fuck was that picture taken???

you can't wear a holstered gun in Texas, and I thought we were the end all/be all for gun rights in the States???

You can wear a holstered gun, as long as EVERYONE can see it and the gun has a permit. (though I'm sure the police would hassle you every block or so). You need a special permit for a concealed weapon.

Yeah, and you can show up at a President Bush appearance with said holstered gun, no problem.

Sure you can.

Does anybody remember "Free Speech Areas"? Anybody?

EdelBrock wrote: The price tag on Obama's plan is way too much

Compared to what? Something really important, like, oh, I don't know, invading Iraq?

So how much have we spent in Iraq so far, anyway? And how much are we committed to spending until we leave?

And how much would achieving universal coverage cost us?

How much is "too much"?

EdelBrock wrote: Where Government needs to be in the healthcare system is in regulation NOT as an insurer. Preexisting conditions have been a loophole for many of the insurance companies, but there is a point to it also (but widely abused). You can't have a small percentage of people absorbing all the costs of the rest of the insurance holders, but at the same time, there should be a modified health insurance even if they won't insure you for the existing condition to take care of health outside the condition.

Really? There's a "point" to denying sick people the ability to get medical treatment? And what point is that? Following that logic, only the healthy should be able to get medical treatment.

Of course, if there's a profiteering middle-man bureaucrat-- let's call him an "insurer"-- standing between you and your doctor, and whose only function is to decide whether you can see a doctor or not, based solely on whether he can make a profit at the end of the day, then yes, it does make sense that pre-existing conditions should be excluded. They would sink the system if they were covered.

But denying sick people access to medical care? That makes sense to you? More sense than eliminating a middle-man whose sole function is to make a profit by excluding the sick and charging a fee to the healthy?

Right. What he said.

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

EdelBrock wrote: Where Government needs to be in the healthcare system is in regulation NOT as an insurer. Preexisting conditions have been a loophole for many of the insurance companies, but there is a point to it also (but widely abused). You can't have a small percentage of people absorbing all the costs of the rest of the insurance holders, but at the same time, there should be a modified health insurance even if they won't insure you for the existing condition to take care of health outside the condition.

Really? There's a "point" to denying sick people the ability to get medical treatment? And what point is that? Following that logic, only the healthy should be able to get medical treatment.

Of course, if there's a profiteering middle-man bureaucrat-- let's call him an "insurer"-- standing between you and your doctor, and whose only function is to decide whether you can see a doctor or not, based solely on whether he can make a profit at the end of the day, then yes, it does make sense that pre-existing conditions should be excluded. They would sink the system if they were covered.

But denying sick people access to medical care? That makes sense to you? More sense than eliminating a middle-man whose sole function is to make a profit by excluding the sick and charging a fee to the healthy?

???? Not sure what you are on about. There are times when a sickness is too far progressed that throwing money at it is no use. However, as in using Cambo's example, it makes no sense that the individual loses ALL coverage, even for things outside the terminal health issue.

I am not nessicarily against a government program for health care, but AGAIN, Obama is putting the cart before the horse.

FIRST regulation of medical and medicine charges needs to be brought under control. This needs to be implimented and give sometime to take hold in the market. Once this has stabalized, THEN the govt. should put in a health care system. Trying to complete both at the exact same time is too much to tackle all at once. It will become a complete mess and costs will spiral out of control.

Not to mention everyone should pay into the system. The welfare programs in our country need revamping as they are sucking our country dry, and this will only become another such one. If people don't pay into the system, then they don't get the coverage... that's how it should be.

Good Christian attitudes there.

And yeh, Jesus did look upon the lame and say "screw you, freeloaders".

What happens in the service? You're lying there in Iraq with your organs in the sand and the medic says "sorry buddy, your insurance doesn't cover this?". Or did each soldier receive slightly less pay than they otherwise would (sort of a tax), regardless of their rank, so that each soldier would have access to whatever medical care they needed, regardless of rank, but based purely on their needs?

Basic healthcare for all should really be considered as a bare minimum standard in order to call yourself a civilised nation. The costs are microscopic compared with the benefits, as well as compared to the enormous amounts it seems to be OK to spend killing innocents in their own country. What you don't want of course, is people getting tit-jobs on the Govt's coin as has been known to happen in the UK.

Just remember Edel, this is a personal issue for me, in ths US I would have been left to die, I'm less than eager to praise such a system.

PS: For the record, I've got a terribly painful condition Edel, but it's not fooking TERMINAL (in fairness, I found out about 18months ago that it's perfectly capable of killing me, but it's not the normal outcome of the thing). When I think of some of the things people live with every day, egg sized swellings in me pits and me groin that cause unbearable agony FROM TIME TO TIME, seems like getting off REALLY lightly.

When have I ever defended the current system?

I mentioned it needs to be fixed in a specific order, not the all-at-once plan like Obama is trying to do.

We could get a catostrophic mess set up by next year that would never get fixed in the next hundred years, or we could start the process of setting one up slowly and methodically, taking about 20 years to get the system full under way that actually WORKS.

The only people I don't care about are those that live life irresponsibly, don't even try to have any health insurance, and thier health problems are self-induced, yet when they get sick expect that everyone else should be responsible for them and pick up thier slack.
I doubt you or many others fit in that catagory Cambo.

political discussions like this always make me want to pee. i used to listen to talk radio for 8yrs just recently until february when i realized that a bunch of jackasses were about to elect someone who may just do worse than the previous person.

Comrade Shampanyov wrote:

EdelBrock wrote:

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: and another thing...where the fuck was that picture taken???

you can't wear a holstered gun in Texas, and I thought we were the end all/be all for gun rights in the States???

You can wear a holstered gun, as long as EVERYONE can see it and the gun has a permit. (though I'm sure the police would hassle you every block or so). You need a special permit for a concealed weapon.

Yeah, and you can show up at a President Bush appearance with said holstered gun, no problem.

Sure you can.

Does anybody remember "Free Speech Areas"? Anybody?

I remember Billy the fucking kid...stick that up your shitter and draw punk! :bandit:

Edel,I'm all for cliches,they are fantastic..But your beloved 'cart before the horse' is only applicable here on healthcare,outside the fascist elitist context for me. Never the twain shall meet.We could hammer out a million cliches... I know it's a bit different and somewhat gnarly bollocks in your neck of the woods,I've heard a bit of Radio 4,which makes me the new world authority on the matter hahaha

Fact is,we pay our taxes here and in return we get looked after if needs be,even if that promise may be a constant expensive struggle for government the NHS,the taxpayer and everyone involved..

It's the one service we socialists hold dear and don't mind paying for.It would be criminal to not look after WW2 vets for free for just one example..How do you look after yours?

Is Obama trying to usher it in over there?If he is then he is a truely a worthy president.

Some Tory politicians are coming out with rubbish that the NHS is no longer the envy of the world,but they would say that,tossers..Of course it is

Yours is a completely different culture in this regard. Taxes should be spent primarily on Defence(not offence,as it gets abused as) Healthcare,Education and Welfare(which needs a kick up the arse,granted) then infrastucture,development etc etc.In that order,then the job is right...The corrupt wankers get it wrong all over the gaff,but it's not that difficult.

The British system is grand, from what I understand. A proper healthcare system is good for the government to be involved in.

However, where Obama scares me is he is trying to set up a system without first properly solving the real problems plaguing our system.

1. Overpricing by doctors, hospitals and medicine companies

2. Healthcare companies allowed to toss isurers around like dried cow patties.

These need to be regulated properly first, and its such a mess over here, it would take 20years before it really took ahold of the system.

Putting in a British system now only complicated the mess we already have, not to mention that fraud, abuse and over-expense will make the public healthcare system costs fly into astronomical numbers.

Anyone who thinks the government can fix the system with this inplace need only look at our welfare system, which is completely abused and a mess. Why let the government have one mess it can't handle, when it could have two?