Battle of the albums..

With reference to Huntsmans thread, The lowest of lives seems to be striding ahead in the album popularity stakes..

Funny.. as much as i love LL, BrotherHood flows so effortlessly from start to end and the only track i occasionally skip is SOTN at the end.

I find LL quite dark and disturbing at times.

For me the albums seem to go head to head in quite a natural comparable form, as they perhaps rightly should being in order of release.

Movement v's PCL = fight those demons... LowLife v's Brotherhood = look heres "our" sound Technique v's Republic = "like a short fuse burning all the time" but oh how bright it burnt.... Grrrrrrready -

Not to say i dont like Grrready, on the contary its got some belters on it :)

But it doesnt have any NO peers i find it comparable to...

anyone disagree?

Perhaps the next one, Inta Don?

But also it appears we may have another transatlantic disconnect here. Your Brotherhood has SOTN? Mine doesn't. Mine has nine tracks, ending with Every Little Counts.

Thanks, Shug. Why in the world would they do that, I wonder?

Yea thats right,

On my original vinyl version it ends after 9 tracks, but grabbing the CD opportunity gave me SOTN

Incidently my cassette version of LowLife has about 14 version of Perfect Kiss on it, is this normal ???

Originally posted by Shug Patsy - they re-issued it here a couple of years ago and that copy has SOTN

The cd of Brotherhood always had SOTN on it Shug.

Originally posted by Inta Don Yea thats right,On my original vinyl version it ends after 9 tracks,but grabbing the CD opportunity gave me SOTNIncidently my cassette version of LowLife has about 14 version of Perfect Kiss on it, is this normal ???

The cassette always had the three versions of TPK from the FAC123 12" as extra tracks. The cd to this day does not.

I've just come over all perculiar,Listening to my new Substance 'B' sides disc 'The Kiss of Death' sounds magnificent and here's me thinking I didn't like this track that much,I had it all the time on the 12" but obviously didn't play that side very often. I think I previously said something like I only succumb to the charms of'The Perfect Kiss' occassionally, 'b' side or not this is the one for me,again apologies for being such a Johny come lateley again.

Backing up Muffy yes BrotherMonkey 'CD' has always had the State of our Nations on it. The vinyl, far superior in every respect, ends with Every Loser Wins... which is a far more satifsfying way to end the day.

It was somewhat of a surprise picking up the BrotherMonkey CD up a while ago to realise it was the full 12 inches of State of Muffy's Toilet rather than the clapped out 7" cut to ribbons fiasco. From 1986 to 2001 not knowing this is frankly embarrasing and can only hope I receive some compensation from Peter's Foot for my duress.

Movement is dog hairs. Powder and Liars is just fucking mad. Low-Light is a bobby belter for its dark world. Technical Lego makes you want to impress ladies. Republican makes you almost embarrased your friends know you own it. Getting Things Ready is 8 years late, and now there's no convincing them mates who know you own Republican Shield Generators.

But Republique yielded the pearls that are Regret and Special....

Therefore i shall never lose face over admitting i own a copy. :)

Originally posted by Huntsman Movement is dog hairs.Powder and Liars is just fucking mad.Low-Light is a bobby belter for its dark world.Technical Lego makes you want to impress ladies.Republican makes you almost embarrased your friends know you own it.Getting Things Ready is 8 years late, and now there's no convincing them mates who know you own Republican Shield Generators.

Is it possible to extract these 2 belters from the album and switch them with Shithouse and Slow Death Jam Butties?

After all, some fuckers just invented a time machine..... sorry no, my mistake, someone has just invented a clockwork radio.

Well, Huntsy, I've thought it would be nice to extract AOC, 586, and Loan Me a Bone from PLC, throw away the rest, and add them to Low Brow. What do you think?

We are in dire danger of getting into "greatest hits" terroritory here mefinks...

World was probably a better single (more commercial appeal) than anything off GR except Crystal. The rest of Republic, except Spooky, is crap.

Your right about PCL - its off it's head. Quality stuff. Technique makes me want to lie on a beach with a bottle of Amstel and a 2 day old copy of the Sun.

Originally posted by Patrick Well, Huntsy, I've thought it would be nice to extract AOC, 586, and Loan Me a Bone from PLC, throw away the rest, and add them to Low Brow. What do you think?

No no no! I think your doing PCL a big disservice there Patty. I'd rather grab Sunrise, LV, Subculture and add them to PCL to be honest.

I can't multi-task and process the amount of vibes and suggestions going around at the moment... rmember I'm trying to add up how many Temptations there is in the other post room and I can't even get in past 43 posts!!!

I have to agree with the grass snake about re-mixing up the tracks from PC&L and Low Burner... I like them both on their own merits and when all said and done, can occassionally sit through We all Sit!!!!!

I wouldn't dare touch LifeLine anyway, it would be like meeting a double of myself in Cuba and then getting cancelled out.

I might say you're doing the same to Low Brow, Seb. See discussion of This Time of Night and Face Up on the other thread.

We All Stand, Huntsy? My reaction to that track is more like We All Throw Up, I'm afraid.

Originally posted by Patrick I might say you're doing the same to Low Brow, Seb. See discussion of This Time of Night and Face Up on the other thread.

I agree that I am Patrick, I was just using it as defence of my new 2nd favourite album, PCL.

PCL is a bit weirdie isnt it? i love the more spatial sound. i wish new order did more albums like it. and its aged better than some of the their later stuff(apart from the vocals)....not polluted by that nasty nascent digital technology sound. oh and "we all stand" gets so much better after the 1st minute..just get over the braying vocals and youre away.

Ecstasy's probably my fave on there. Just coz it is fucked

estacsy`s fab i must say, its quite a feat, using a vododer without it sounding naff. ultraviolence would probably have benefitted from being vocodered, or having the vocal toned down in some way, or even just removing the vocal altogether. it would have made a fantastic creepy but groovy instrumental..

What about "The Village"?? i like that "jaunty" flavour :)

The Village Idiot is OK, Don. We can keep that one.

Originally posted by velocity girl PCL is a bit weirdie isnt it? i love the more spatial sound. i wish new order did more albums like it. and its aged better than some of the their later stuff(apart from the vocals)....not polluted by that nasty nascent digital technology sound.oh and "we all stand" gets so much better after the 1st minute..just get over the braying vocals and youre away.

Power, Corruption an a tasty pork pie please is the Order finally leaving behind the JD sound, finding their feet in their own right. The album is a masterpiece, bettered only by dancing naked in the summer rain or a kiss and a cuddle from your best girl! Yes, 'We All can't wait for it to finish' is no classic but the many highs outway that one low. My favourite Order album.

Originally posted by Muffy > Originally posted by velocity girl> PCL is a bit weirdie isnt it? i love the more spatial sound. i wish new order did more albums like it. and its aged better than some of the their later stuff(apart from the vocals)....not polluted by that nasty nascent digital technology sound.> oh and "we all stand" gets so much better after the 1st minute..just get over the braying vocals and youre away.

Power, Corruption an a tasty pork pie please is the Order finally leaving behind the JD sound, finding their feet in their own right. The album is a masterpiece, bettered only by dancing naked in the summer rain or a kiss and a cuddle from your best girl! Yes, 'We All can't wait for it to finish' is no classic but the many highs outway that one low. My favourite Order album.

Hmm they have done better, but the one redeeming factor of -'We all slouch' is the line. "Life goes on in this real life fantasy - Forever to be still, Breath held tight inside of me"

Inspired Barney, Inspired :)

When I first heard 'We are all Standing on the Shoulders of My Giant' Starring that bloke from 'When Henry Met Salad Cream' - William's Crystals... I thought, this is shit. The remark 'We all want it to finish' was true. However, as I have now grown old and have barnacles on the end of my teats, I love it. Its just plain freak worker. Off the wall, daft, punchy, creep world, un-New Ordery in a New Ordery kind of way, worm food, tablet witches, gravel monsters and just a tinge mighty mouse.

Similarly, Powder Puff Lies has these vital ingredients and the more I think about it the more I'm adverse to swapping between the Lowest Life Line. To quote the Pet Shop Shirt Lifters... it would be west end girl.

P.C.L. for me is New Order,everything elsle is just nearly as good. I can't believe you said that Patrician,if you want a war of attrition,I'm determined to fight to the death, in defence of P.C.L. Again metaphorically speaking I don't intend applying for a visa, boarding a plane and wandering across the country asking if anyone knows of your whereabouts.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© P.C.L. for me is New Order,everything elsle is just nearly as good. I can't believe you said that Patrician,if you want a war of attrition,I'm determined to fight to the death, in defence of P.C.L. Again metaphorically speaking I don't intend applying for a visa, boarding a plane and wandering across the country asking if anyone knows of your whereabouts.

Aha, the wise man speaketh! I too will fight all the way Shimbo, let's piss in the coffee of all who sully the majesty of the majestic PCL.

Though to be fair, pissing in coffee would probably make it taste a little less like shit!

Let us not forget they opted to play "Your Silent Face" again of late....

part homage to PCL perhaps.

Let battle commence,AOC, YSL, 586,Leave Me Alone, The Village are IMO the peak of their career, absolutely flawless, needs no correction and the others give you time to recover before being flawed again and are also quite good in ther own way.

Originally posted by Inta Don Let us not forget they opted to play "Your Silent Face"again of late....part homage to PCL perhaps.

Yeah, the version from the BBC session is brilliant.

Originally posted by Hank Wiseass© Let battle commence,AOC, YSL, 586,Leave Me Alone, The Village are IMO the peak of their career, absolutely flawless, needs no correction and the others give you time to recover before being flawed again and are also quite good in ther own way.

Their finest moment album wise, without a doubt.

Major Muffy,Hold the fort, I'll be back.

I would argue that Round and round, Run, Mr Disco, vanishing Point and Dream Attack are at least on a par.

But apart from that fully agree

(Yes Shimmo, really...)

Originally posted by Seb Briggs I would argue that Round and round, Run, Mr Disco, vanishing Point and Dream Attack are at least on a par.But apart from that fully agree(Yes Shimmo, really...)

Yes, Run and Dream Attack particularly are classics, but there's a certain magic about PCL that no other album has. I think it's the fact you can tell they're trying stuff that's new to them, whereas later on it was all second nature.

Muffy and Wank, don't misunderstand me, I too think that AOC, 586, and Leave Me Alone are pinnacular. It's just that there are some tracks that I'm less enthusiastic about.

None of these albums should be compared to other NO moments - they are all from their peculiar place in time. If anything, I would go for Technique - it paved the way for so much of the 90s music scene

I think everybody else must be taking a nap, Phil.

Muffy and Wank, once again I agree PCL has the highest highs, and YSF, Ultraviolence, and Ecstasy are better than I remembered, but it seems to me that the one element that is so essential that doesn't appear until Low Life are those lyrics that are like a hard slap in the face, for example, as I quoted yesterday, "You search your empty brain in vain."

Thats why i stand by Brotherhood as my all time fave album, for me it has the complete range of NO from up-tempo dancey tracks like the opener an blt, to the ridiculous and serious asitis, every second, alldaylong.

Technique, although im a hugely massive fan keeps the Ibiza sun'n'fun theme through the entire album and therefore does not appeal to have to same range as Brotherhood IMO.

Despite the sound problems, Inta Don?

Originally posted by Patrick Despite the sound problems, Inta Don?

yea.. thats a pisser the sound issue but i've grown accustomed to it in an almost... familiar way over the years!

Originally posted by Patrick Muffy and Wank, once again I agree PCL has the highest highs, and YSF, Ultraviolence, and Ecstasy are better than I remembered, but it seems to me that the one element that is so essential that doesn't appear until Low Life are those lyrics that are like a hard slap in the face, for example, as I quoted yesterday, "You search your empty brain in vain."

Patty you took those words from my mouth,"the highest highs" I had a post I was forming with those exact words. I just scanned up and down three times to see if I had posted it already and you were quoting me. I must admit what you said about the lyrics had me shifting in my seat a bit. The first post I ever wrote about New Order, posted elsewhere, was in response to a lot of negativity,especially re. Bernards lyrics, even before anyone had heard Getready. In it I alluded to how I always identified with Bernard and his dreams of owning a yacht, And I stated how lines from 'The Village' and 'Leave Me Alone' would live me for ever, as they conjured up an image of beaches, blue lagoons, paradise if you like, I also like the slightly more abstract language and the fact I still don't know what the hell he's banging on about, I don't want these mysteries that exist in my head solving, I just want them there. I will probably always consider these the 'highest highs' but yours and other's thoughts on the more bitter aspect of the later lyrics have got me thinking a bit, no bad thing. I'm glad to appreciate another level.

Sebb, I take on board your thoughts about Technique and if P.C.L. didn't exist I would probably be saying much the same thing about it, it's absolutely flawless needs no correction, perfection, except some of P.C.L. is more perfect. More human than human.

One other thing I meant to say about PCL, Wank, was that it certainly has a quality of pureness that was lost and never regained in later material, but as I said and I think you agreed, other new and important qualities entered.

As I've said many times now, Wank, I think Leave Me Alone is by far their best thing ever. And listening to 586 just makes me so happy.

I understand the defense of PCL.... AOC is one awesome song....Sounds very similar to the Cure's "Closedown" if you ask me though hehe...

My personal favorite is Movement. I'll probably get torn apart for this but as more of a JD fan you can understand where I'm coming from. DNE, Truth, ICB, Doubts Even Here create a claustrophobic sound that is still played heavily from by bedroom....

The absolute worst: REPUBLIC.

That whole album sounded dated the minute it was released....sure Regret is catchy tunewise, (lyrics stupid) and I dig Touched by the Hand of God (It came out around same time right?)

2 cents

Originally posted by Michele Racicot My personal favorite is Movement. I'll probably get torn apart for this but as more of a JD fan you can understand where I'm coming from. it was released....sure Regret is catchy tunewise, (lyrics stupid) and I dig Touched by the Hand of God (It came out around same time right?)

Wait a minute...... I should have known that only LOVE will tear me apart.....I feel safer in my opinion now.

Michele, Touched was 1987, Republic 1993.

Knowing how happy my own little ditties make me, I can imagine how good it must feel to have an album that goes from 586 to Your Silent Face, just imagine being in the studio going 'top that! world', and no-one has ever, yet. Did someone say P.C.L. was less influential on dance culture than Technique I'd argue that Technique was less influential on dance culture as House was already an unstoppable juggernaut by 1989. The formative years of those influenced would have been much earlier.

You know, Wank, just THINKING about Leave Me Alone makes me cry; I don't even have to actually hear the song; it's enough to just play it in my head.

I think I'm right that Fine Time was released the same week as Innercity's-Good Life. I was also a bit dubious on first hearing it, thinking are they jumping on a bandwagon or consuming themselves with something they had more right than anyone to be involved in.

Originally posted by Patrick You know, Wank, just THINKING about Leave Me Alone makes me cry; I don't even have to actually hear the song; it's enough to just play it in my head.

I think I speak for everyone in quoting the "and that's why I love you" line,cue some puke from Briggsy

Nah nah not at all Hank. Thats why I love New Order and their influences on me. No other group makes me feel any real emotion however much I may like them.

Leave Me Alone, Dream Attack, Blue Monday, Round and Round, Procession, Temptation, Ceremony, Crystal, Subculture, Ecstasy, Weirdo, Regret and Primitive Notion to name but a few all take me to different places in a way that no other music can.

Agree with you fully about PCL - certainly more influential on dance - I just slightly prefer the tunes of my faves of Technique - not much in it mind you.

Thanks, Wank, same to you for things like your earlier post about highest highs.

i hate to be a killjoy and i do really love PCL loads but really was it that influential? the only dance act ive ever heard rave about it is the chemical brothers. was it being cited alot by 80s dance acts/synthpoppers? cmon give me a history lesson...

VG, I think groups tend to cite Blue Monday (just a few recent acts include Twatboy Slim, Chems, Underworld, Pet Shops, Leftfield). And Blue Monday is obviously a bi-product of PCL

I think 808 state were quite pioneering as well with there approach to dance music.

Many parallels with NewOrder can be drawn.

well seb that`s what i thought, although i always felt that PCl and blue monday were quite different. much cooler to cite PCL if u ask me.. question; when did ACR start doing their indie/dance thing?

Originally posted by Inta Don I think 808 state were quite pioneering as well with there approach to dance music.Many parallels with NewOrder can be drawn.

Talking of 808 state - did you see whose going to be laying down some vocals on their new album...Billy Corgan

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i hate that fucker....oh well, 808State have been shit since Gorgeous anyway.

A sure sign your career is in the gutter......featuring Billy Corgan!

Headlines read-----2 Manchester Legends Suck Up To American Knob---Billy Pumpkin Ruins 2 Albums in one Year. Story on page 3

Originally posted by Shug > Originally posted by Seb Briggs> > > > Originally posted by Inta Don> > I think 808 state were quite pioneering as well with there approach to dance music.> > > > Many parallels with NewOrder can be drawn.>

Talking of 808 state - did you see whose going to be laying down some vocals on their new album...Billy Corgan

Fuck Me!!!! I thought they had split a couple of years ago

One member left - but the original 3 still remain - Andy, Darren and Graham - although I think one of the 3 is inside at the moment (i think i heard it said elsewhere). Andy and Darren generally turn up as DJs at various Mcr events - like the Badly Drawn Boy/Doves/Alpinestars NYE last year.

As for recording with Billy Corgan - if that's what it takes to be recognised by the public again, so what.

Originally posted by Shug Cheers for the info Phil

I like 808 quite a bit, their version of Electronic's Dissappointed is by far the best

I enjoy listening to ex:el a little bit but Gorgeous is the album from 808 I am most likely to play. I thought their track with Ian McCullough was excellent as well as Spanish Heart (of course). If 808State needed to be recognized they could produce Britney or N'Sync. Using Corgan is at least as bad as using one of those pop whores. Graham Massey did some good work with Bjork but they'll have to prove themselves to me after their last release, which I thought was terrrible. Those mixes of Pacific should have never been done.

Originally posted by Brian Geoghagan I enjoy listening to ex:el a little bit but Gorgeous is the album from 808 I am most likely to play. I thought their track with Ian McCullough was excellent as well as Spanish Heart (of course). If 808State needed to be recognized they could produce Britney or N'Sync. Using Corgan is at least as bad as using one of those pop whores. Graham Massey did some good work with Bjork but they'll have to prove themselves to me after their last release, which I thought was terrrible. Those mixes of Pacific should have never been done.

spanish heart wasn't on Gorgeous - it was on ex:el

I know. I have a problem with run-on sentences when writing email/messages on forums. With EX:EL on vinyl and disc it's hard to forget. I was grouping together the 2 guest vocalists with 808 i like the best (oops is another good one). Do you agree that Gorgeous has aged better than EX:EL?

Originally posted by phil > Originally posted by Shug> > > > Originally posted by Seb Briggs> > > > > > > Originally posted by Inta Don> > > I think 808 state were quite pioneering as well with there approach to dance music.> > > > > > Many parallels with NewOrder can be drawn.> > >

Talking of 808 state - did you see whose going to be laying down some vocals on their new album...Billy Corgan

Fuck Me!!!! I thought they had split a couple of years ago

One member left - but the original 3 still remain - Andy, Darren and Graham - although I think one of the 3 is inside at the moment (i think i heard it said elsewhere). Andy and Darren generally turn up as DJs at various Mcr events - like the Badly Drawn Boy/Doves/Alpinestars NYE last year.

As for recording with Billy Corgan - if that's what it takes to be recognised by the public again, so what.

Oh yes - 808 State - them were the days - were you there at Castlefield Arena back in 1996 when they did a huge free outdoor gig? We were one of the bands who supported them, Graham invited us to do a set, top geezer and that.... - in fact, if you have the DON SOLARIS album (massively underrated) you'll see that there's a pic of one of our drums on the back of the CD ...cool eh?

Amusing profile pic mart(i)an

seems topping the 1000 postings mark has bought out yer vicious streak (scuse the pun!) judging from your recent posts!!

tssssssssssssssk ;)

You got it in one mate.

And the reason? - that piece of filth who posted just before you above.

( )

REBUBLIC WAS SHITE they shoudve scarped it and just released Get Ready

Republic wasn't that bad. It wasn't their best but it's better than most albums out there.

Originally posted by Inta Don Let us not forget they opted to play "Your Silent Face"again of late....part homage to PCL perhaps.

More to do with it being one of those songs that plays itself and saves Steve having to drum !

10pts to Socrates

Next up, Is it really that hard to add new songs to the set? 10pts and control of the board up for grabs.....

how fucking amazing would it be to hear the beginning of Sunrise right after a killer version of Primitive Notion?