Q Review

Only gets 2 stars. Bit gutted as I always trust Q. Hope this is where they are wrong. Got 4/5 in Burn magazine though.

I usually just trust my ears.

I like Q and WFTSC aint worth more than two stars. I'll bet my bottom dollar that the vast majority of reviews are similar. Take of your rose tinted spectacles comrades. It's a mediocre record and it'll be identified as such by rock hacks and objective music lovers alike.

Yeah, NME have made it hard for themselves to have a pop at the Order now, haven't they?

marcus mee wrote: Yeah, NME have made it hard for themselves to have a pop at the Order now, haven't they?

They'll slag it off and blame Phil.

Reviews are a bit like the charts,they mean fuck all. How many other times have you read a review-something gets 5 stars,it must be good so you buy it-and its shite. And vice versa. The new Doves album got a spanking review,i know GF will disagree with me,but its average. WFTSC,so its had a bad review,we`re still gonna buy it.

Spotnick wrote: I'm curious to know how many stars they gave to Get Ready...

**** (four)

It's sad when after a couple years patronage, one can predict the rating a journalistic venture will give a certain product based on the mag or the site's pedigree and past judgement. I predicted Allmusic.com would give DD's new album two and a half stars out of five and I was only off by half a smegging star.

While I personally like WFTSC a whole lot, much more than Get Ready(which 90% of the music journalism world blew a judicious load over), my prediction is that the scoring it's going to get when tabulating the mean/median of the majority of professional reviews will be strictly 3 out 5, 6 or 7 out of 10, 70-75%, C+ B- faire. "A step down from the blistering modernistic indie rock of Get Ready into tired, overly sentimental commercial-friendly lite-rock and dancepop that's much too thinblooded to appeal to the youth market and far too mainstream for the longtime fanbase." shite like that. Yes that was one entire sentence.

I stopped buying Q when it became clear to me that they didn't cover the sort of music that I listen to. No major interview with the Order when Get Ready and Retro came out. No special issue when lesser bands have been afforded that honour. Crap questions in Cash for Questions last month.

Doesn't stop me posting on the Q message board though

From the MP3s I have heard (and therefore not in the glorious techincolor that my hifi would present them in)it's 7/10 for me.

I would never use the term "the oh-so-brilliant Q Magazine". I said I liked it that's all. It entertains me for an hour or so in the same way as Crononation Street, The Daily Record and Kylie's Greates Hits (Disc 2). I can't be arsed writing an essay on why it entertains me, but it does.

We all know that WFTSC was never gonna win them any new fans. However, the point I was trying to make is that music lovers who are familiar with NO will write this off as pretty average. As we can't speak to every single one of these individuals let's just sit back and see how the press review it. Love 'em or hate 'em rock hacks are music fans too. So if there's a general consensus among them (as I suspect there will be) I think we should take that on board and accept that to most folk, beyond a devoted fanbase, it's a below par album.

I'm afraid to say that on the basis of what I've heard (the One World preview and WFTSC) I think Q might be right. As a big Stooges fan I was looking forward to hearing Working Overtime, after all I'd read about it, but was very disappointed. With expectations adjusted it's a good track but no more. Krafty I think is great - deserving of being a New Order single and WFTSC is also very good but the others... I know that people in the know have stated that there are other, stronger tracks on the album but there is already more filler on this than any other (with the possible exception of Republic). If Jetstream becomes a single it will be an embarrassment of Substance 12" proportions. Some 25 years ago I sought out unknown pleasures over the more obvious ones of Dollar, say. I can imagine Dollar singing Jetstream. I take no pleasure in saying that.

I'm no fan of Q...and they clearly have their favourite bands that they deiciate covers and acres of coverage in order to boost sales.

But after living with WFTSC for a while now, it does not stand up to the Order's previous work. It's not that the songs are bad - Krafty, Trun and WFTSC are good, I even like Jetstream, it's just that there ain't any bone fide clssic tracks that are going to stand the test of time, or hold their own against Age of Consent, Temptation, Love Vigilantes or even Crystal. 2 stars is harsh but it is not far off the mark.

That said any New Order record is better than none...but I think many people's expectations on this forum are set too high. Impossible for a band this late in their career to hit the heights of their previous output.

This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Prfft, I actually made a post the complete opposite (it was swallowed up by the system, sigh), don't think for a second everyone agrees with you.

I think the very fact they gave Get Ready more than WFTSC is enough to either say:

• they're speaking a load of bollocks.

OR

• they're indie fanboys, as this album has taken a distinctly more pop-like approach. In which case they're justified but I wouldn't heed their advice if it depended on my life.

Or possibly even both. I don't care, WFTSC is way better than Get Ready, from this New Order fan's perspective.

let's face it, krafty is krap. new order are doing a de niro and laying a turd on their illustrious legacy. krafty is all i've heard and it's pretty half arsed, not a patch on crystal. the first single needs to be much stronger than this for us to expect a great NO album in WFTSC. i'm not optimistic at all

Could anyone scan the Q and Burn magazine reviews and post them here?

So we are agreed then - whatever we think of the review of the album (or the album itself) - Q IS SHITE! Compare the Q&A in Burn magazine to Q's half arsed attempt. Amateurs!  Nurse, the screens.

Could anyone point me to a thread or link to Qs latest cash for questions ? I remember the ones from '99, they were quite funny, but I haven't seen anything on the new ones yet. Otherwise, I've read several issues of Q over the past year, they didn't seem good enough to start buying it. I've only heard 4 songs thus far, but it can't be that bad of an album, especially compared to what's in the stores nowadays.

Ally3000 wrote:

Grahame Ferguson wrote: This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Bollocks! This is one of the most laughable posts I've seen on here for a while. "The silent majority"?? So everyone who views the site regularly but doesn't post a hell of alot is in this illustrious "silent-but-we-think-the-new-album-is-duff" group? (Am I misunderstanding here?) It's not a "duff" album to alot of people on this board, including I'm sure a serious amount of "silent lurkers". Defending that the new LP deserves only 2 stars in the piss poor rag that is Q is incredible. Also, no-one was asking you to write an essay as to why you like Q, simply state a few of its strengths as opposed to its weakenesses which are all too apparent as over three members in this thread (including me) have stated. Simply saying "it makes me happy" as in for myself "a nice bit of toast makes me happy" isn't the most "pin pointed" of responses. Not meaning to sound bitchy but I like nailing down my points, however if you consider the "Q of today" a good mag then that's up to you and I respect that.

However and to be honest refusing to give the new material the band have produced a "decent" chance (i.e. might it be that the new album is a grower?) is entirely your loss. Lots of people on here are really enjoying WFTSC, and find Krafty a good single that will dent the charts and expand the band's influence. Indeed alot of people have panned "Krafty" simply because it sounds optomistic, but that on it's own is a shit reason to pan any song. Writing off the new LP as "duff" and simply looking forward to the 102043th live rendition of Temptation and Blue Monday is the most boring attitude I've come across from a New Order fan. Why look forward to the live gigs if you cannot enjoy the new material they produce on record which will most likely make up a large part of the set? Granted you're under no obligation to love the new LP, but I'm convinced anyone writing off all 11 tracks from this new album as a "2 out of 5" effort have got their heads up their arses. But that's not really my problem, only their loss.

All in my humble opinion of course,

Ally.

I think you'll find Ally baby that the new album is indeed a prize duffer of gargantuan proportions. Krafty is - without a shadow of a doubt - easily the worst New Order single ever and far from, er, 'denting the charts and expanding the bands influence', (how I laughed when I read that), it will sink without trace - thankfully! The new album is throwaway pop pap, instantly forgettable, and completely uninspiring! There is not one single song on there that grabs you by the balls like so many tracks did in the past. Anyway, many of you fettlers will lap it up just because it's the Order, but the bargain buckets near you will be brimming over with it soon. The record buying public are no mugs!

I find it hard to fathom what people want from New Order nowadays. As I've said elsewhere, they won't do another monster like True Faith or Temptation I doubt. The;re getting on for 50 feckin years old now. From what I've heard of WFTSC it's good pop music and far better than most of what else is doing the rounds in the music world nowadays.

It's prompted me a bit to visit some other old NO albums that I haven't heard for a while, and I've come to the conclusion in many cases they're not actually THAT good. Did people when they were released seriously salivate over tracks like Chemical, Avalanche, State of the Nation, We all stand, half of Brotherhhod, all of Movement? Technique in my opinion is the only great album they've done. I reckon this one, from what I've heard will not be far behind those albums. In all honesty NO are a singles band more than anything else.

Mr B makes an important point; is the consistency of milk any different to that produced in 1983? - in the mind, it remains as sweet as a finely prepared potato - but in actual fact, both strands have their idiosyncrasies and largely taste the same.

It is a shame to pontificate your favourite band from what they were to what they are now. The Beatnicks split with their back catalogue untainted, as/per Joy D and several other musical combos. They lasted a while, sounded boss cat and ended, still sounding boss nass. With bands that continue going (presumably because they love doing so) then sooner or later out comes Analyse This featuring Robert De Knee Jerker (as mentioned earlier in the thread) and everyone and his badger has an opinion which is usually; 'hey they were better years ago weren't they'.

From what I can see, and I can see quite clearly after a decent brew - this has happened:

NO initially couldn't read or write (or even play) musical instruments that well and thus they made relatively simple songs concentrating on making them simple songs sound great (or even more complicated than they were). To highlight this, Tempting Miss Daisy and Ceremonial Cheese are made largely of one single chord progression (that's two chords kids - practically unheard off but easy to learn!).

Then they learnt how to read, write (but not play) their musical instruments and thus their songs grew like other songs as they worked out certain formulas - they naturally turned poppy. They are more mellow, again naturally, and thus probably don't feel too much like being depressive any longer - I mean, how depressing is it watching a movie and eating snacks? ... answer; not very.

To recap; they're less dark and more poppy. To my ears, they're still capable of the odd belter and The Sirens song is AS GOOD as SOME of their classics.

exactly Hunts. won't argue with that. Thing is I'm happy their still doing because my Ipods already going to be a better place for WFTSC and Jetstream particularly of the 5 tracks I've heard - and from these tracks I'd reckon it's probably better than the last 2 albums

It's like Middlesboro and the UEFA cup really innit? You know their not going to win it, but you're still happy they're taking part and making a good fist of it

... Dreams Never End.

Seb Briggs wrote: I find it hard to fathom what people want from New Order nowadays. As I've said elsewhere, they won't do another monster like True Faith or Temptation I doubt. The;re getting on for 50 feckin years old now. From what I've heard of WFTSC it's good pop music and far better than most of what else is doing the rounds in the music world nowadays.

It's prompted me a bit to visit some other old NO albums that I haven't heard for a while, and I've come to the conclusion in many cases they're not actually THAT good. Did people when they were released seriously salivate over tracks like Chemical, Avalanche, State of the Nation, We all stand, half of Brotherhhod, all of Movement? Technique in my opinion is the only great album they've done. I reckon this one, from what I've heard will not be far behind those albums. In all honesty NO are a singles band more than anything else.

Like Sebs says, they are (and always have been) frequently a bit wank. But like I drunkenly told someone in the pub the other day, it's like a long-term relationship: you still love 'em, even though they're sometimes embarassing and piss you off a lot of the time. Though you might have strayed, you couldn't imagine your life without them. And when they get it right, they hit you in the heart like no-one else ever could.

For me, at least, there's still this appeal....

[Removes heart from sleeve ]

Ally3000 wrote:

Grahame Ferguson wrote: This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Bollocks! This is one of the most laughable posts I've seen on here for a while. "The silent majority"?? So everyone who views the site regularly but doesn't post a hell of alot is in this illustrious "silent-but-we-think-the-new-album-is-duff" group? (Am I misunderstanding here?) It's not a "duff" album to alot of people on this board, including I'm sure a serious amount of "silent lurkers". Defending that the new LP deserves only 2 stars in the piss poor rag that is Q is incredible. Also, no-one was asking you to write an essay as to why you like Q, simply state a few of its strengths as opposed to its weakenesses which are all too apparent as over three members in this thread (including me) have stated. Simply saying "it makes me happy" as in for myself "a nice bit of toast makes me happy" isn't the most "pin pointed" of responses. Not meaning to sound bitchy but I like nailing down my points, however if you consider the "Q of today" a good mag then that's up to you and I respect that.

However and to be honest refusing to give the new material the band have produced a "decent" chance (i.e. might it be that the new album is a grower?) is entirely your loss. Lots of people on here are really enjoying WFTSC, and find Krafty a good single that will dent the charts and expand the band's influence. Indeed alot of people have panned "Krafty" simply because it sounds optomistic, but that on it's own is a shit reason to pan any song. Writing off the new LP as "duff" and simply looking forward to the 102043th live rendition of Temptation and Blue Monday is the most boring attitude I've come across from a New Order fan. Why look forward to the live gigs if you cannot enjoy the new material they produce on record which will most likely make up a large part of the set? Granted you're under no obligation to love the new LP, but I'm convinced anyone writing off all 11 tracks from this new album as a "2 out of 5" effort have got their heads up their arses. But that's not really my problem, only their loss.

All in my humble opinion of course,

Ally.

I gave up essay writing when I graduated ten years ago (2:1 in Sociology from Glasgow Uni, robbed of a first!). Hence I cannae be bothered defending to somebody why I like Q feckin Magazine!!! As I said I like it cos it entertains me. No more, no less. Apologies for not intellectualising that to your satisfaction. I probably couldn't deliver four paragraphs on why I like toast come to think of it. Bet you could!

Sorry if that makes me un-cool and sorry if I just don't get how the "Q of today" is so much worse than it was in the past. On that note I remember Q when Paul Mcartney, Led Zep and Fleetwood Mac were regular cover stars. Is this the era you're refering to?

Anyway back onto toast. Here's one for you....

"Toast is nice and the toast eating experience is enhanced by the application of a generous helping of Flora Lite."

Discuss.

NB There's a 5000 word limit Ally.

Grahame Ferguson wrote:

Ally3000 wrote:

Grahame Ferguson wrote: This is healthy. Could we re-name this thread " The Silent Majority Speak Out". As I'm sure Spotnick will confirm there are far more people who view this site than there are actual contributors.

I'm glad that two of our newer community members are finally saying what I'm sure most of "the lurkers" are thinking i.e. great band, brilliant to see them back, duff album, bring on the live shows!!!!

And both posts are far more eloquent than anything I've managed.

Bollocks! This is one of the most laughable posts I've seen on here for a while. "The silent majority"?? So everyone who views the site regularly but doesn't post a hell of alot is in this illustrious "silent-but-we-think-the-new-album-is-duff" group? (Am I misunderstanding here?) It's not a "duff" album to alot of people on this board, including I'm sure a serious amount of "silent lurkers". Defending that the new LP deserves only 2 stars in the piss poor rag that is Q is incredible. Also, no-one was asking you to write an essay as to why you like Q, simply state a few of its strengths as opposed to its weakenesses which are all too apparent as over three members in this thread (including me) have stated. Simply saying "it makes me happy" as in for myself "a nice bit of toast makes me happy" isn't the most "pin pointed" of responses. Not meaning to sound bitchy but I like nailing down my points, however if you consider the "Q of today" a good mag then that's up to you and I respect that.

However and to be honest refusing to give the new material the band have produced a "decent" chance (i.e. might it be that the new album is a grower?) is entirely your loss. Lots of people on here are really enjoying WFTSC, and find Krafty a good single that will dent the charts and expand the band's influence. Indeed alot of people have panned "Krafty" simply because it sounds optomistic, but that on it's own is a shit reason to pan any song. Writing off the new LP as "duff" and simply looking forward to the 102043th live rendition of Temptation and Blue Monday is the most boring attitude I've come across from a New Order fan. Why look forward to the live gigs if you cannot enjoy the new material they produce on record which will most likely make up a large part of the set? Granted you're under no obligation to love the new LP, but I'm convinced anyone writing off all 11 tracks from this new album as a "2 out of 5" effort have got their heads up their arses. But that's not really my problem, only their loss.

All in my humble opinion of course,

Ally.

I gave up essay writing when I graduated ten years ago (2:1 in Sociology from Glasgow Uni, robbed of a first!). Hence I cannae be bothered defending to somebody why I like Q feckin Magazine!!! As I said I like it cos it entertains me. No more, no less. Apologies for not intellectualising that to your satisfaction. I probably couldn't deliver four paragraphs on why I like toast come to think of it. Bet you could!

Sorry if that makes me un-cool and sorry if I just don't get how the "Q of today" is so much worse than it was in the past. On that note I remember Q when Paul Mcartney, Led Zep and Fleetwood Mac were regular cover stars. Is this the era you're refering to?

Anyway back onto toast. Here's one for you....

"Toast is nice and the toast eating experience is enhanced by the application of a generous helping of Flora Lite."

Discuss.

NB There's a 5000 word limit Ally.

Grahame is spot-on. I think the "Q" of today is pretty shit, but it was so much worse in the past when it was a byword for what I will politely call Tedious Grandad Rock.

I got the Q special on Electronic music (with DepechMode on the cover) - that was quite good; packed full of articles on bands I liked or remembered fondly. & it was amazing how often NO were mentioned - I dont think there was 1 major article which didnt mention them somewhere, ant these are decent sized articles that you can really get in to

Besides that, I dont buy Q more than 1 a year at this stage - the '100Best' thing gets damn boring after a few years! there seem to be precious few decent articles in it nowadays - they must be saved for the 'special editions'

I stopped buying Q the moment they gave 'Room On Fire's Strokes five stars and hailed it as classic...

That record turned out to be one of the crap of 2003..even Strokes themselves admitted it.

Elitist point of view my arse, even my 65 yo uncle Casper knows good music whenever he hears one, as he'd be seen dancing to I Told You So recently

Q mags? what a bunch of wankers who got off to U2 bollocks on regular basis

Trust your ears instead

[end transmission]

well ive been a jd/new order fan since day dot,and ive just heard the new album. and quite frankly i couldnt care less what sort of review it gets in any mag let alone in q magazine,i think wftsc is possibly one of if not the best example of new orders range and breadth of styles of music to date. in fact ive just had a bunch of people dancing away to guilt is a useless emotion and they dont even know who new order are? so to the posters in ere that are whining (not as good as "insert new order track or album of your choice here"). just go n fuck off,in fact before you go kiss my arse,in fact kiss my arse whilst im holding open both cheeks. new order are for once bending over backwards to apease their fans,they want rock,they want pop,they want electro,they want gigs in uk,states,mars,orions belt ect ,and for once its looking like its all on offer ,so give em a break,go n buy the album,i may have d/loaded it but i will certainly be parting with my cash went it comes out.

mike powell wrote: well ive been a jd/new order fan since day dot,and ive just heard the new album. and quite frankly i couldnt care less what sort of review it gets in any mag let alone in q magazine,i think wftsc is possibly one of if not the best example of new orders range and breadth of styles of music to date. in fact ive just had a bunch of people dancing away to guilt is a useless emotion and they dont even know who new order are? so to the posters in ere that are whining (not as good as "insert new order track or album of your choice here"). just go n fuck off,in fact before you go kiss my arse,in fact kiss my arse whilst im holding open both cheeks. new order are for once bending over backwards to apease their fans,they want rock,they want pop,they want electro,they want gigs in uk,states,mars,orions belt ect ,and for once its looking like its all on offer ,so give em a break,go n buy the album,i may have d/loaded it but i will certainly be parting with my cash went it comes out.

I'm sensing a fascination with men kissing your batty (as you "hold open your cheeks"). Very descriptive. Some may say too much information. Have you ever considered contributing to the letters page of "Honcho" magazine? Prick.

I've never read Q. Aren't magazines a bit 20th Century?

Couple of points.

Attempting to speak on behalf of a silent majority strikes me as a bit off. As I'm sure silent majorities everywhere will agree.

Accusing people of lacking objectivity when they're able to demonstrate it, is also slightly awry. I'm able to do so on a track by track basis and an album by album basis. I don't much like Jetstream, I Told You So or Working Overtime. I don't like much of Republic or Get Ready.

Hank Wiseass© wrote:

Attempting to speak on behalf of a silent majority strikes me as a bit off. As I'm sure silent majorities everywhere will agree.

Well, I had to un-lurk at some point, might as well do it now I think 2 stars is harsh, but 5 would be a exaggeration just as much. There, a once-part of a silent majority with yet another opinion to add to the mix.

Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

Seb Briggs wrote: Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

I'm too young to be old skool!!! Technique is my favourite album by any artist ever. Full stop. I want buried with it. Regret is my favourite NO track ever but Republic is my least favourite album. Contradictions, eh?!

I'm in agreement with you that WFTSC is better than Republic but to me that's not saying much. Get Ready was above average but not great. Having re-visited it recently though I'd have to say it's better than WFTSC but not by much. In fact I find both albums very simialr.

And yes I think musically WFTSC is a poor album and I believe that history will judge it to be so. But as we all need to keep in mind this is all about opinions which, as a wise man one said, are like arseholes...everybody's got one!

The new album is OK...no more no less.

They will never replicate the beauty of Technique.

Its great they are still producing good music,creating lots of interest and playing gigs/festivals.

I struggle to find the time or motivation to catch them live now. I travelled all over watching the Order during 85-89...I went to some of the best venues and had some of my best times. I am 37 this year and would hate standing in a big field 3 miles from the stage. If they announced they were playing the Leadmill or Rock city i might just move my butt;)

Love this site..it rekindled a dying flame that was my love of New Order...I just hope they bow out at the right time.

Future Music has a SYSTEM 7 feature

I've never taken much interest in the opinions of Q Magazine, but then again I've never taken much interest in the opinions of the music press full stop. Most of them are either fresh from swallowing their university thesaurus or are cynical old hacks with damaged noses.

I prefer to trust my ears and the opinions of people whose judgement I value, and have to say that I disagree with some of my learned colleagues on this one. I like the new album, I appreciate their trying to be a little different on some tracks (different for them that is, bog-standard filler fodder it may be, and disappointing by their standards). I gave up worrying about the quality of the lyrics a long time ago, and somehow it sort of appeals to me that they have pinched riffs and ideas off other bands for once.

This may be a tad controversial at this early stage of the record's lifespan, but I would place it only behind PC&L in my favourite NO albums.

I think it's fair to say WFTSC is inconsistent, with some good but not great tunes.

Krafty is a definite grower, but I doubt the album will draw in new listeners.

I like it, but it has required me to perserver longer than I suspect a casual listener would, which can't be good.

I like it, but I don't love it like I love Technique.

If Krafty hits number one, I'll headbutt myself in the ahole.

Magazine reviews are pretty subjective anyway so I wouldn't bother too much about the 'Q' review of WFTSC.

I haven't heard the album in full yet, only bits and pieces from it, but what 'Q' magazine have got to say isn't going to inform my opinion in any way. I'ts like the comments on here, some have slated the album but others regard it highly (again completely subjective). There's nothing wrong with that but you've got to take it all for what it is, personal opinion.

Those who don't like it should, either, give it a chance and see if it grows on them (loads of people seem to be suggesting it's a grower) or give it up as a bad loss and move on.

I'd admittedly be a bit worried if everyone was slagging WFTSC off, but that's not happening thankfully. I suppose 'Q' ratings will probably have more of an impact upon casual listeners who allow these kind of reviews to influence their choices. I'm sure most NO fans are going to buy WFTSC when it comes out anyway.

I've certainly still got high hopes for it, regardless of what others think

Im dead curious like others on here to see how NME rate it as they gave the Genius award last month.I like the album but i doubt if most reviews will give it much more than 6 or 7 out of ten and some probably less than that.there are 2 or 3 songs i would rate as "goose pimplers" on the album - Whoes Joe ,WFTSC and Turn.Now if the rest of album was goose pimply i would expect every journo to give it a full rating.Krafty i love although theres something about the chorus that doesnt quite cut it.But the rest of the track is great.Songs like Road To Ruin i enjoy listening to but if you wanted to you could decsribe as bland dad rock.I will not be at all surprised of many journos (and probably some of my friends too!) decsribe the album as average.But i enjoy (most) of it.

Spotnick wrote:

You find Shellshock better than Krafty for instance?

Absolutely. Shellshock's a killer!!!

Spotnick wrote:

Ok, it might not be the best tune, but damn it, in my mind it's better than Shellshock, State of the Nation, Spooky, Ruined In A Day, World, Fine Time, World In Motion and 60 Miles An Hour...

No way, all of the above are better than Krafty... Just had to think about Spooky one second, but even that rules out Krafty.

Listen to the 12" Extended mix and you'll recognize just how boring it is. It's one of the lamest bass riffs Hooky played so far! And there are way better songs on WFTSC than Krafty. Who's Joe for example, and Dracula

Julijana Zitnjak wrote: Could anyone point me to a thread or link to Qs latest cash for questions ? I remember the ones from '99, they were quite funny, but I haven't seen anything on the new ones yet. Otherwise, I've read several issues of Q over the past year, they didn't seem good enough to start buying it. I've only heard 4 songs thus far, but it can't be that bad of an album, especially compared to what's in the stores nowadays.

Just dig back here 2 or 3 weeks. It's there.

I believe one should not, can not review this album properly after one or two listenings. This album requires time to reveal its true greatness. Time is something most reviewers don't have.

Speaking as a fan of New Order since day one (I followed JD until the end), I find WFTSC to be on the whole a very good album indeed, and for me it just edges out Get Ready, which itself was a strong release. Most of the tracks are growers, so first listenings can be very deceptive. I wasn't keen on Krafty when I first heard it, but now I recognise its strengths. I think there's a tendency for New Order fans to want to be blown away on a first listen, but the qualities on WFTSC take time to emerge. Be a little patient, and those beautiful melodies and arrangements will become so apparent. Who's Joe? now gives me the same thrill as when I first got into Bizarre Love Triangle. WFTSC is full of wonderful moments of pure New Order. I can't wait to hear what they release in 18 months' time!

Don`t these magazine journos recieve copies months before their reviews get published?.Surely they have the album (and countless others, granted) to assess a long time before making their minds up on what review to give?.They have a lot of albums to review but they have enough time to have more than one listen.

Fans do lose sight that everyone has their OWN opinions and interpretations of songs. Hell I'm glad to hear the diversity in the reviews...I have only heard maybe 4 songs myself but I am certainly not going to be influenced by mag reviews or fans reviews for that matter. Just looking forward to the releases and make up my own mind. Like grandpa used to say, "If everyone liked the same thing we would all be married to grandma"!

Finally got round to reading this review today. I have no problem with the reviewer thinking the LP's a bit shit; what I do have a problem with is the tokenistic nature of the review, the lazy 'sounds-a-bit-like-Technique' comparison, and the total inability to give the reader any idea what the record sounds like. The article on JD is equally wank. My 13-year-old sister would be embarrassed to put her name by that kind of 'journalism'.

Oh, and of course music journalism is subjective: being 'objective' about pop music is as pointless as alcohol-free vodka.

On the other hand, the new Mojo contains some fantastic piccies of the band, and one of Natalie Curtis looking (perhaps unsurprisingly) like an exact hybrid of her mum & dad. The article is fantastic as well, containing my all-tme favorite anecdote about the band, featuring as it does kebabs, Annik Honore and an "i-ron-ing board".

Seb Briggs wrote: Not really interested in the Q review, because they are a bit clueless, but interested in Grahame and Muffy's opinions.

Do you like Get Ready, Republic and even Technique, or are you strictly 'Old school' New Order?

If so, do you think WFTSC is a musically poor album or just not to your taste?

Not having a dig in any way, just interested to know. Personally from what I've heard of the album, it's superior to both Republic and GR - and it does come over on here that most people would agree with that

Well Snake, it's like this. An old fart like me, who's been hangin' on the Order's every beat for over 25 years now, expects a little more. Admittedly, maybe i'm expecting a little too much for these ageing heroes to be able to maintain their true greatness, but it's true to say that I expect at least one or two songs on any new album they deliver to blow my socks off straight away - and certainly to have grown on me some after the 30 at least times i've heard them. The title track, WFTSC, is easily the best track on the album. Not a bad song, but in no way great! Every album up till now has been great - with the exception of Get Ready. Even Republic does it for me, a very under-rated album. Yes, I do think WFTSC is poor musically, but maybe that's down to my inability to digest 'pop music', there's no edge to any of it and Christ almighty, lyrically the album makes me cringe unbelievably. I'll still buy it, but only to get my hands on what is going to be a lovely hidden extra that most will never find!

Spotnick wrote:

Muffy wrote:

I think you'll find Ally baby that the new album is indeed a prize duffer of gargantuan proportions. Krafty is - without a shadow of a doubt - easily the worst New Order single ever

Worst single ever?

You find Shellshock better than Krafty for instance?

Ok, it might not be the best tune, but damn it, in my mind it's better than Shellshock, State of the Nation, Spooky, Ruined In A Day, World, Fine Time, World In Motion and 60 Miles An Hour...

And I could find others in the 80's I'm quite sure of it.

Nic, you'd better get back on the tablets! Your brain has clearly turned to custard again! The Busted track Thunderbirds Are Go is better than Krafty! And that's a factoid!

Holy smoke, all the old skeletons are marching out.

What's this covert business you're referring to el Muffo?

:\pimp3:

I never read Q but applaud their sense... although two stars is ludicrously high for this bomb of a release...

This record is truly ghastly and the final nail in the coffin of this lots' creativity... there isnt one single track here that doesnt make me cringe... and not one single moment of beauty

Its really an Electronic record with a few guest stars... an overworked effort by aging popstars who cant really get it up to do good popsongs and dont have the balls to experiment... the tuneless voice is right out in front where the glare of day shows it for what it is... uninspired and tone deaf...

The slashing conventional rock guitars neuter any potential excitement and the amazingly unimaginitive use of electronics provides no respite whatsoever from the monotony...

For me its not a matter of if this improves on Get Ready... both records are utterly forgettable and of no nutritional value whatsoever... they are the work of a band who no longer has any of the things that made them special or important and now relies on a pathetic pastiche which clueless fans mistake for excitement...

I suppose my only response is to laugh and agree with my friend when he says "hey man, that band has always been Genesis; you just wouldnt admit it"

And then there were three...

Ajw

Al Jarvis wrote:

AJ Wells wrote: This record is truly ghastly and the final nail in the coffin of this lots' creativity... there isnt one single track here that doesnt make me cringe... and not one single moment of beauty

AJ, 24hrs ago you were still claiming 'lack of ownership' and asking for copies of 'this bomb' over at alt.music.new-order, so how come you've suddenly got an opinion?!

Or are you forming one before you've heard the music?!

Bless.

Wasn't it 24 hours prior to that, that he pledged never to post on here again?

AJ Wells wrote: ...they are the work of a band who no longer has any of the things that made them special or important and now relies on a pathetic pastiche which clueless fans mistake for excitement... Ajw

All well and good AJ, everyone is of course, entitled to their opinion. But if you're going to have an elitist sneer at NO fans who may have found something in this album, well, you're looking for a fight.

I wouldn't mind hearing which artists you do actually rate highly so we can appreciate what talanted musicians really are capable of. Who knows, maybe one day we too will have the analytical skills required to appropriate their work.

:\pimp3:

I'm a silent lurker who thinks the album is sub-par. Loads of filler and I'm gobsmacked by the lack of lyrical depth. Does every song have 'sea' in it?

The first half, musically, is definitely superior and as good as any of NO's and the offshoots' 90s output. But Jetstream is, for mine, the greatest atrocity they've ever committed to tape. An absolute stinker.

I too am an ex-Q devotee who, like Ally, is baffled by the endless pointless lists and dumbing down of a once great mag. 2 stars might be a bit harsh but not by much.

I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Muffy wrote: Even Republic does it for me, a very under-rated album. Yes, I do think WFTSC is poor musically, but maybe that's down to my inability to digest 'pop music', there's no edge to any of it and Christ almighty, lyrically the album makes me cringe unbelievably. I'll still buy it, but only to get my hands on what is going to be a lovely hidden extra that most will never find!

You don't like WFTSC and that's fine. But when you talk up Republic and then complain that Sirens has no 'edge', what's that all about? I went searching for this edge in Republic but couldn't penetrate the layers and layers of over-production, backing vocals and diluted bass. As Hague drifted them into PSB territory, surely there was never a less edgy-sounding NO album?

And what's this Easter egg you're referring to Muff? Or do you need to know some secret anti-Sirens' handshake to be in on it?

:\pimp3:

Lots of intersting opinions on this subject.

I am "Old Skool" as most post 90s Order fans say.

People love New Order for various reasons.

For post 90s people to question the "Old Skool" opinion is not fair and so is the juxtaposition.

I have stated that nothing will ever capture the magic of 85-89...But that doesnt mean I am right.

Al Jarvis wrote: "gobsmacked by the lack of lyrical depth" - can someone quote me a New Order lyric which HAD depth?! All Day Long got deep but was a bit cringeworthy. True Faith? (That's just Morning Night and Day, surely?). Confusion? We All Stand? Blue Monday, even?

The only 'lyrical depth' New Order have ever possessed was with Procession, imho, but it's hardly fcuking Dostoyevsky now, is it? The only bands I've ever enjoyed for purely lyrical reasons of late are the likes of GLC and the Streets, and that's cos they make me larf. I don't expect New Order to make me larf. I expect neutral lyrics about relationships (maybe), drugs (me), etc.

The cringeful lyric issue has had me thinking recently, in light of another selection of dazzlers on WFTSC.

They seemed to be getting worse in the GR-Sirens era but then I stopped and thought that maybe they weren't, and maybe they've always been like this. Throwaway, essentially. And the reason they seem worse is just that we're all a lot fcuking older, wiser and more critical. When I was singing along with Barney on Low-life or Brotherhood the lyrics were actually just as disposable but I was young and didn't know better or care. When you're older, you're more cynical, you've heard a million more songs and are more exposed to all manner of cliches and lazy rhymes.

Bernard is never going to be another Ian, or even a Thom Yorke or Wayne Coyne so I just hope he minimises the really hackneyed couplets and keeps the lyrics oblique and interpretational. When they're at their best, the music is so sweetly textured and dense that the nature of the words is almost insignificant.

:\pimp3:

PAUL TROWELL wrote: Lots of intersting opinions on this subject.

I am "Old Skool" as most post 90s Order fans say.

People love New Order for various reasons.

For post 90s people to question the "Old Skool" opinion is not fair and so is the juxtaposition.

I have stated that nothing will ever capture the magic of 85-89...But that doesnt mean I am right.

for the record, i became a fan in 87, after i heard True Faith. I had heard BLT and Blue Monday but wasn't a fan until True Faith. My favorite era though, is the 81-85 era.

The only utter crap thing they've released is the Ruined in a Day ltd. edition single where all 5 remixes sound the same.

So I'll throw in my opinions briefly and to the point since I'm going to be late for work.

Krafty - What the fuck is wrong with you people? Worst single ever? It's freaking brilliant! I really, really, sincerely love this song. I'm speechless.

60 mph - shit. lazy. corny.

crystal - shit. boring.

get ready - amazing. one of the best things they've done. And yes, I love Rock the Shack. And yeah I see the contradiction since it has two of their worst singles on it, but the album just works for me.

Technique, P, C & L - Their two best albums.

Low-Life, Brotherhood - Great, but really overrated by NO fans. I mean, cmon, we were all probably pretty young when we got into those albums. Dont get me wrong, they're great, but they have flaws too that I think fans overlook.

WFTSC - haven't heard, but some of the songs I've streamed sound great, some mediocre for NO.

Ok I really have to go.

And I agree with previous posts, Radiohead and U2 are the most overrated, pompous plagiarists ever and the fact that no music journalists have the balls or perception to point this out makes me want to smoke crack.

Ally3000 wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

Shug ain't "old school" - he's fucking younger than me!!! Me and the Shuglet are the babies of this board, and don't you forget it!!!

I guess the main difference between you and me is that my first "new" New Order album was Republic....

So when your first 3 albums as a fan are Republic, Get Ready and WFTSC, you are quite happy with this album.

Maybe it's different for people following them since the early 80's, I can agree with that...

Actually, I still have problem with some songs off PC&L and Low-Life to be honest... and don't get me started on Movement.

Amazing how New Order can please different types of people at different levels, isn't it?

You make a good point Nic. Listen to PCL without We All Stand and tag BM after 586, what a difference. With Low-Life ditch the edit of TPK and listen in this order: Elegia, Sooner, Subculture, Face Up, LV, This Time Of Night, Sunrise, and then TPK 12". Sublime!

Ally3000 wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

For a while Ally you've been teetering on the brink of personalising what has (up 'til now) been a good debate. Temper your negative/offensive language when you're refering to other posters wee man. So much anger and agression isn't good for your health and may come back to bite you on the arse one day.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Who exactly are you refering to as 'jaded old fucks', you mis-shapen fannyrash??!! Should we all be sucking each other off as we proclaim them Kings of the Universe for producing an average pop album?? WFTSC is, like it or not, way below the standards they have set for themselves. That of course is my own personal opinion. Those of us who are not proclaiming this album as the Second Coming do so because it is not to our taste. And by the way, a fan is a fan is a fan. Regardless of length of service.

Agree with every single word here really glad someone had the balls to say it! While there are loads of really cool "old-school" fans on this board (Al, Shug etc.), there are a few that just moan and moan (and moan) at every post-Republic release. I've been a fan for 10 years, longer than some and a only fraction of others. Muffy, no offence mate but I disagree with just about everything you said in your post bar your Get Ready/Republic comments (which I share) but your 25 years or however much of fan history cuts very little ice and only seems to serve as a meek attempt to discredit younger fans viewpoints which are no less viable than your own. Krafty the worst single they've ever done? Utter bullshit

You don't like WFTSC, fair dos. I actually think it's a great album for the band to produce at this stage in the game. It's a real grower with barely any track I strongly dislike at this point (the end of Jetstream is a bit shit) There are so many good, strong tracks here (Morning Night And Day, Turn, Hey Joe etc.) it's definitely their most consistently good one since Technique. If you're expecting the same level of innovation that the band produced after Joy Division ended or when they discovered ecstasy you're pretty naive. Regardless of some so-called veteran fans moaning it will not stop to rest of us enjoying this new LP which I personally consider to be much, much better than Get Ready's effort and the bollocks they produced in the mid-late 80s like Shellshock, Sub-culture 12", State of the Nation etc. It wipes the floor with 60 MPH certainly, and that is a "factoid".

Fans who hold the 80s material on some sort of a pedestal and dismiss all new stuff as "shite" are tedious to debate with because their memories of "the good old days" are obviously too firmly ingrained for them to be objective and judge the new stuff alone without constant comparison.

Ally.

Everybody has favourites Ally, even you. I don't recall dishing out any orders to anyone at any time compelling them to either love or hate the new album. Your sweet self, and Mr Mis-shape seem intent on becoming offensive just because some don't hold the same opinion as you do about a pop record. God knows what you'd be like if this was a political forum, though if memory serves, the trapeze artist is American, which explains a lot. And as a wise man has just said, be careful what you say and how you say it, making enemies is always pointless.

It's all so fecking subjective - New Order mean all things to all men.....Movement is my favourite album, tying with PCL - suppose that makes me old school, and hey I have followed them for the past 23 years..... But that doesn't make my 'opinion' any more worthy than someone who came in when they liked Republic. Music or Art aint like that. Lyrically, they were untouchable on Movement and the singles EPs that followed up to about '84, and patchily thereafter. OK, they were aping Ian's lyrics on Movement etc, but they sounded great and a tad intellectual and open to interpretation- certain detached coolness .... . Having said all that, I think i will like WFTSC - haven't heard the whole album, only 4 songs but I think the 4 I have heard beat most of Get ready, all of Republic, and, dare I say it, several on Technique.

Each and every new Order album has moved on from the last.....some people interpret that 'moving on' as a drop in 'quality' - however you measure that. I remember placing Low Life on it's day of release on the turntable and thinking, this ain't PCL, or Movement, it was soooo different then....but its a classic NOW....its all perspective and context.

Enough bullshit for now.

FIVE HATES SIX-you are gonna LOVE  IT.Best thing i have heard since being RELEASED myself.I am INNOCENT  m' LUD.

NOT ARF!

Rocket Mick

Muffy wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: I'll be glad when these so-called "old school" fans finally give up on New Order and start selling their collections. It's too crowded in here already, we don't need some bitter, jaded old fucks cluttering the forums with outdated opinions and ridiculous expectations. WFTSC is a beautiful album, it just takes some time to sink in. Oh, was i supposed to bow down to you because you were a fan of Joy Division before Ian offed himself? Let me put down my coffee so i can worship at your holy alter. I feel so priveliged to be in the company of TRUE FANS who bought Transmission on the day it was released, hunkered over their radios listening to John Peel and watching JD in a room full of 32 jerk-offs like you. Bless you almighty fan, you know far better than The Rest of US.

Our father, who art in heaven....

Who exactly are you refering to as 'jaded old fucks', you mis-shapen fannyrash??!! Should we all be sucking each other off as we proclaim them Kings of the Universe for producing an average pop album?? WFTSC is, like it or not, way below the standards they have set for themselves. That of course is my own personal opinion. Those of us who are not proclaiming this album as the Second Coming do so because it is not to our taste. And by the way, a fan is a fan is a fan. Regardless of length of service.

who the cap fit...let them wear it!

actually, Muffy, you made some good points. i just can't see how someone can not like this album. I also can't see why a person who thinks every New Order song after Movement is shit, continues to post 8000 times to a New Order message board more that 20 years after the band released somthing they liked! This does not refer to you Muffy.

OFF TOPIC

Biznotic, what's your obsession with Digital Mike?

Who cares? I remember they gave technique 3 stars when that came out. Idiots.

also, Muffy, Mis-Shapen Fanny Rash is now my favorite put-down ever!

JOHN BARRETT wrote: Who cares? I remember they gave technique 3 stars when that came out. Idiots.

Pretty accurate score in my book.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

JOHN BARRETT wrote: Who cares? I remember they gave technique 3 stars when that came out. Idiots.

Pretty accurate score in my book.

The Bible?

Well he is the Holy See.

Incidentally, doesn't fanny refer to an entirely different area of the anatomy between the US and UK? You may want to check that out before you let it rip...

:\pimp3:

Oh no Brian is upset again ,awwww didums

depthcharge wrote:

...doesn't fanny refer to an entirely different area of the anatomy between the US and UK?

ct001 wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

...doesn't fanny refer to an entirely different area of the anatomy between the US and UK?

Isn't that the Canadian bloke who rapped INFORMER??

Having now at last read the Q Magazine review the most annoying thing about it is it's only about 10 sentences long! Surely it deserved a bigger spread?

Grahame Ferguson wrote: Having now at last read the Q Magazine review the most annoying thing about it is it's only about 10 sentences long! Surely it deserved a bigger spread?

..... but that's nine-and-a-half sentences more than is required. I mean, how many words do you need to say 'shit'??!! ;)

Dashiell Hannett wrote:

ct001 wrote:

depthcharge wrote:

...doesn't fanny refer to an entirely different area of the anatomy between the US and UK?

Isn't that the Canadian bloke who rapped INFORMER??

do you mean snow? surely as you quoted it you saw the blokes name. he's an antipodean idiot trying to revive his career. please don't bring him up again as the arguments were getting really interesting.

Ally3000 wrote:

Muffy wrote:

Everybody has favourites Ally, even you. I don't recall dishing out any orders to anyone at any time compelling them to either love or hate the new album. Your sweet self, and Mr Mis-shape seem intent on becoming offensive just because some don't hold the same opinion as you do about a pop record. God knows what you'd be like if this was a political forum, though if memory serves, the trapeze artist is American, which explains a lot. And as a wise man has just said, be careful what you say and how you say it, making enemies is always pointless.

Sorry you feel that way about my post. As I said in the reply to Grahame's one above I think I'm getting a bit of a raw deal here but rather than keep my gob shut I'd rather face the critisism head on and perhaps learn something (Mutual learning to be done here I think). I'm not out to make any enemies and if I were my language would have been a bit more blunt. Muffy I do not think you're entirely blameless here as the wordings of your original posts regarding the new LP were as if you were stating fact. This seemed a tad provocative to the people (like me) who are really enjoying the new LP and had a small whiff or arrogance. I know this was not your intention, but it appeared that way and I was simply responding with "well basically I don't agree and I like the album because of X and Y" and "certain older fans do moan about the new stuff alot" in a nutshell. If that makes me enemies around here then this board's gotten a bit too sensitive lately. I even said I agreed with your Get Ready opinions and that Republic is vastly underrated. I still do agree!

The points about older fans made by BLT were his originally so take issue with him (I see you already have) and not me. The only thing I regret about my reply to his post was "Agree with every word here" because I don't. I'm not out to call people jaded fuckers or anything, but he said it so as I say take it up with him. Also perhaps the other thing I could have worded better was that I was not slagging you off as a "jaded old fucker fan" I was simply saying there are fans out there (naming no names but I have seen some impressive bitching on here about pretty much everything the band have done since '93) and this was not directed specifically at you Muffy or Grahame or anyone else. I think you and Grahame took that as gospel and it was probably my fault for wording it in that way. I know you two've done some very amusing/interesting posts in your time.

I'm tired of this thread, I wish Nic would lock it, delete it, whatever.. Simply because we're not talking about New Order anymore and I'd like to get back to talking about the music and listening to what everyone has to say. Ironic a message about Q Magazine triggered it all As far as I'm concerned the only person who has gotten personal on this thread is BLT and not myself. We're not joined at the hip so he can sort his own mess out. I agreed with some of his points but insulting people was a bit much. Sure I could have worded certain posts of my own better; the "factoid" thing and "Krafty the worst single? Bollocks" comments were intended as a bit of playful sarcasm in response to your original posts Muffy. Next time I will put a million smileys after any remotely "risky" comment I make.:):):):):):) <- see? Anyway back to hearing what everyone thinks of the band and the new LP.

"Jaded old fuckers" and "whippersnapper" alike ;)

Ally.

Ah yes, there's my favourite word, 'provocative'. That's entirely as it was intended to be. I'm not one to capitulate and agree with popular opinion, even when I do. Keeps things interesting. Sometimes!

By the way Bongo, don't be coming to the gigs thinking there will be any backlash or bad feeling of any sort from us, ahem, 'jaded old fuckers'. Don't forget your purse though!

Like Sebs says, they are (and always have been) frequently a bit wank. But like I drunkenly told someone in the pub the other day, it's like a long-term relationship: you still love 'em, even though they're sometimes embarassing and piss you off a lot of the time. Though you might have strayed, you couldn't imagine your life without them. And when they get it right, they hit you in the heart like no-one else ever could.

For me, at least, there's still this appeal....

[Removes heart from sleeve ]

I couldn't have said it better myself....great analogy..:) ;)

Reviews... I'm happy when they praise the band, but actually I don't care, I mean Raise The Pressure got 4 on the NME and it was an excellent album, especially in 1996 when all the rest of the music scene was crap it was an outstanding masterpiece and I still think that tracks like Freefall are some of the few that can be compared to the majesty of New Order... I don't know if they'll say it's lightweight but just hear the NME Winners compilation and then let's see who's playing safe... I Told You So towers as a brave futuristic effort when compared to the most of the other tracks which safely conform to their standards... And the records buying public... since when do they have good taste... here we have The Libertines and Green Day (so this is punk?), they mean NOTHING, I say fookin NOTHING when compared to the sequenced banjo alone of I Told You So... and Get Ready entered the charts just below the fookin Strokes, enough said. By the way Gabrielles Wish have sold less of 1000 copies of their album, but Rob Gretton was right and they're still one of the greatest bands ever! I mean the most important thing is to BELIEVE in music... I believe in them no matter if they have to release the records on their own label now... and I believe in Waiting For The Sirens Call and I'd do it even if every member of the forum told me it's crap and if it enters the chart at #99...