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Following on from that thread about Bolts or Vaults or Volts or Thoughts or Force in Temptation.
In Blue Monday I always thought, for years, that Bernard sings "I see a ship in the harbour/I can and shall obey".Until someone suggested he sings "I see a ship in the harbour/Anchored in a shallow bay"
Which is it?.The thing is they both make sense. "I can and shall obey " could mean he is obeying the captain of the ship.
And "anchored in a shallow bay" makes sense too.
NObabe wrote: defo "shall obey", are you deaf!?
Since I never listen to BM, I don't have an opinion.
But, M, it seems to me that "shallow bay" and "shall obey" pretty much sound the same.
Patrick wrote:
NObabe wrote: defo "shall obey", are you deaf!?
Since I never listen to BM, I don't have an opinion.
But, M, it seems to me that "shallow bay" and "shall obey" pretty much sound the same.
Glad someone (half) agrees with me.Just listened to it again and it is "shall obey", i admit.But why should he obey?.I would have said fuck off
NObabe wrote: What the hell is Johnny doing listening to BM?
It isn`t something i do often.Got sick of the bloody thing many years ago.Live versions are still good though.Love the Finsbury park rendition on 5 11
Johnny wrote:
NObabe wrote: What the hell is Johnny doing listening to BM?
It isn`t something i do often.Got sick of the bloody thing many years ago.Live versions are still good though.Love the Finsbury park rendition on 5 11
I guess I'll have to listen to it now so that I can have a proper opinion on this point.
Patrick wrote:
Johnny wrote:
NObabe wrote: What the hell is Johnny doing listening to BM?
It isn`t something i do often.Got sick of the bloody thing many years ago.Live versions are still good though.Love the Finsbury park rendition on 5 11
I guess I'll have to listen to it now so that I can have a proper opinion on this point.
Dont feel you have to if you really dont want to, Pats.
Johnny wrote:
Patrick wrote:
Johnny wrote:
NObabe wrote: What the hell is Johnny doing listening to BM?
It isn`t something i do often.Got sick of the bloody thing many years ago.Live versions are still good though.Love the Finsbury park rendition on 5 11
I guess I'll have to listen to it now so that I can have a proper opinion on this point.
Don
t feel you have to if you really dont want to, Pats.
Well, M is usually right on things like this. Perhaps I'll just take her word for it and spare myself the pain of listening, J.
Patrick wrote: Well, M is usually right on things like this. Perhaps I'll just take her word for it and spare myself the pain of listening, J.
Well I guess being a non-native English speaker that makes me pay much more attention to things like these.
NObabe wrote: defo "shall obey", are you deaf!?
ya what? can`t hear you.
(wow it only took me nearly 2 hours to come up with that reply. i really am deaf
)
Johnny wrote:
NObabe wrote: defo "shall obey", are you deaf!?
ya what? can`t hear you.
(wow it only took me nearly 2 hours to come up with that reply. i really am deaf
not funny cause you're right, you only read me but never hear me at least on boards that is
No offence to Maya's listening skills ;) but I've always thought it was "Anchored in a shallow bay" following on from the ship in the harbour line. I could be wrong as "Shallow bay" and "Shall obey" sound identical so who knows?
Who cares?
"Anchored in a shallow bay" is suppossed to be the correct translation
shall obey has always seemed better to me thou
Alistair wrote: No offence to Maya's listening skills ;) but I've always thought it was "Anchored in a shallow bay" following on from the ship in the harbour line. I could be wrong as "Shallow bay" and "Shall obey" sound identical so who knows?
Who cares?
Yeah who cares.but you could say that about most threads on here,surely.
I think its "shall obey" because it def sounds like he sings " i can and shall" before it.Or is it "anchored in"
it`s going to keep me awake for weeks this one is
SO, RESULTS SO FAR
I can and shall obey - 1 vote Anchored In A Shallow Bay -3 Votes
Up ya bum ,Maya. And get your hearing sorted.
Even if it's something about being anchored in a bay, it's definitely not "anchored in A shallow bay" because Barney sings only six syllables, as opposed to the seven in that phrase. Then we're left with "anchored in shallow bay", which makes sense, but would seem a bit unusual for Barney. But in many live renditions of Blue Monday, he clearly says "I can and shall obey", such as this one right here.
In fact, in every version - live or in studio - that I've ever heard of Blue Monday sounds very much like "I can and shall obey". I'd bet the farm on that one. 
Johnny wrote: Following on from that thread about Bolts or Vaults or Volts or Thoughts or Force in Temptation.
In Blue Monday I always thought, for years, that Bernard sings "I see a ship in the harbour/I can and shall obey".Until someone suggested he sings "I see a ship in the harbour/Anchored in a shallow bay"
Which is it?.The thing is they both make sense. "I can and shall obey " could mean he is obeying the captain of the ship.
And "anchored in a shallow bay" makes sense too.
'I see a ship in the harbour/ I can and shall obey' - what sense does that make??
its obviously - 'I see a ship in the harbour anchored in shallow bay'
Defo I can and shall obey. It makes no sense but we are talking New Order here.
Funny how no one has suggested the version on BM88 Japanese 3" CD import. "I can't unshallow bay".
I'm just surprised that Barney hasn't sung "I see a shit in the toilet" 
Coincidentally BM at Macclesfield is just playing and I can and shall obey was sung, clear as day.
It could be "I can and shallow bay" meaning "I can see the ship in the harbor and I can see the shallow bay."
I see a ship in the harbor I can, and shall, obey....
it means that "the writing is on the wall" with the fucked up relationship he is discussing...the ship representing the doomed fate of it....time for him to move on
as in " two ships that pass in the night"
well...thats my two cents, anyway.
RedKen wrote: 'I see a ship in the harbour/ I can and shall obey' - what sense does that make??
What sense do any of the lyrics in BM make?
Kevin Smith wrote: I'm just surprised that Barney hasn't sung "I see a shit in the toilet"
nearly fell off the chair 
i've always thought it was 'i can and shall obey.' the other choice never crossed my mind until johnny's observation, even though it makes perfect sense. now i'm utterly confused.
Old Blue wrote: If the ship is in the harbour, then how can it be in a shallow bay as well?
because the tides out
john dougherty wrote: I see a ship in the harbor I can, and shall, obey....
it means that "the writing is on the wall" with the fucked up relationship he is discussing...the ship representing the doomed fate of it....time for him to move on
as in " two ships that pass in the night"
well...thats my two cents, anyway.
huh?
that sounds like some confusing thing that i would write.
Johnny wrote: In Blue Monday I always thought, for years, that Bernard sings "I see a ship in the harbour/I can and shall obey".Until someone suggested he sings "I see a ship in the harbour/Anchored in a shallow bay"
I used to hear it as "echoes in shallow bay". And hell, as a non-English speaker there's been lots of lines that I've heard differently from those who have bothered to actually try to decipher these lyrics and put them as subtitles on DVDs or on their webpages.
But as Barney would say: "let's not get all complicated". ;)
Old Blue wrote: If the ship is in the harbour, then how can it be in a shallow bay as well?
Yeah, why cant a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.
Maybe Barney can solve this.He`s into boats and stuff.
As for me. i`m just pissed after a day in the pub debating how may vegatbles makes a good healthy diet
Patrick wrote: You really started something this time, Johnny.
It`s my 15 minutes of fame!:)
Johnny wrote: Yeah, why can
t a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.
Huh!?
NObabe wrote:
Johnny wrote: Yeah, why can
t a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.Huh!?
I know.Its total nonsense.ill edit it tommorrow when i`m sober.
Ill umm.. drop anchor on this subject for the night.Things will be much clearer in the morning im sure
Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?
Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?
It was the GENERAL BELGRANO.Not Belgranto.But it was out at sea when it was sunk.Not in a shallow bay.
But the lyrics did seem to adress the Falklands war at the time.And war in general i guess.
Johnny wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)
It was the GENERAL BELGRANO.Not Belgranto.
Sorry.
Johnny wrote: But it was out at sea when it was sunk.Not in a shallow bay.
But the lyrics did seem to adress the Falklands war at the time.And war in general i guess.
Artistic license?
Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?
NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.
Anyway, just to add to the debate, I always thought it was I can in shallow bay, never thought about anything else until I saw it here, seems to be mainly yanks that think it's shall obay, strange!
As someone from less than 50 miles from salford, and therefore have a good understanding of the accent, I declare myself to be correct:D
I'll let you know what the Japanese lyric booklet says when my copy of Singles arrives later on this week! :p
(Not that they will be right, of course)!
My stance is that it's "I can, and shall, obey" (and the official Warners lyrics site backs this up)!
Actually, pretty damn good website that (Warner Chappells), which confirms that:
a) Fine Time:
"The Past Doesn't Matter" is the synthesized voice and "You've got love Technique" is the last line!
b) Temptation:
"A Heaven I'd Get With A Hope Just Like The Feeling Inside It's No Joke And Though It Hurts Me To Treat You This Way Betrayed My Words I'd Never Heard Too Hard To Say Up Down Turn Around Please Don't Let Me Hit The Ground Tonight I Think I'll Walk Alone I'll Find My Soul As I Go Home
Each Way I Turn I Know I'll Always Try To Break This Circle That's Been Placed Around Me From Time To Time I Find I've Lost Some Need That Was Urgent To Myself I Do Believe Up Down Turn Around Please Don't Let Me Hit The Ground Tonight I Think I'll Walk Alone I'll Find My Soul As I Go Home
Oh You've Got Green Eyes Oh You've Got Blue Eyes Oh You've Got Grey Eyes And I've Never Seen Anyone Quite Like You Before No I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before Thoughts From Above Hit The People Down Below People In This World We Have No Place To Go Oh It's The Last Time Oh I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before Oh No I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before"
Hmmm... :)
Jed Stephens wrote:
NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.
You can't dismiss the idea, as it does make sense out of the lines.
The answer is here: http://www.neworderonline.com/Music/Song.aspx?SongID=9
'There is no question about it'.
Now stop pondering kids...
Chris Nash wrote:
Now stop pondering kids...
I like to ponder some things.If that`s ok with you.
It's "shall obey". If it was "shallow bay", then the lyrics would have to be "I can and shallow bay" and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
leather_girl wrote: It's "shall obey". If it was "shallow bay", then the lyrics would have to be "I can and shallow bay" and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.
yeah but it wouldn`t be "i can and shallow bay" it could be "anchored in a shallow bay".
And "anchored in a shallow bay" makes absolute sense after "i see a ship in the harbour"
New Order Song Book 1981-1989 confirms "shall obey"
Dissapointing."anchored in a shallow bay" makes more sense.
I think the deal with BM's lyrics is that they were chosen kind of randomly by Barney (probably while completely out of his mind, as it were), but they ended up addressing the notion of fascism, both political and within a personal relationship, and conflating the two.
Church of the KLF wrote: I think the deal with BM's lyrics is that they were chosen kind of randomly by Barney (probably while completely out of his mind, as it were), but they ended up addressing the notion of fascism, both political and within a personal relationship, and conflating the two.
A good summation.Spot on.
After all, they're just incidental lyrics to one of the most influential electronic/disco/pop songs of all time
Jed Stephens wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?
NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.
Anyway, just to add to the debate, I always thought it was I can in shallow bay, never thought about anything else until I saw it here, seems to be mainly yanks that think it's shall obay, strange!
As someone from less than 50 miles from salford, and therefore have a good understanding of the accent, I declare myself to be correct:D
So which are you saying? I'm still lost in translation here ... ancored in a shallow bay?
just because it is printed somewhere as "shall obey" still just means that somebody sometime just thought that was what he was saying (just like we do) 'cause I sincerly doubt Bernard has ever officially released an actual transcript of his early lyrics
To conclude - i guess it must be "i can and shall obey" although " anchored in a shallow bay " really does make more sense.
Johnny wrote: To conclude - i guess it must be "i can and shall obey" although " anchored in a shallow bay " really does make more sense.
Even if "shall obey" is correct, surely that is at least a pun on "shallow bay"?
Patrick wrote:
Johnny wrote: To conclude - i guess it must be "i can and shall obey" although " anchored in a shallow bay " really does make more sense.
Even if "shall obey" is correct, surely that is at least a pun on "shallow bay"?
Our Bernard really is a clever bugger with those lyrics at times
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Didn't the Cocteau Twins once bring out an EP titled "Echoes In A Shall Obey"?
Echoes In A Shallow Bay.
And Liz sings "paddy paddy bycycle dewdrops drops" on Pearly Dewdrops Drops
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: You fell for that one didn't you Johnny??
I still have that EP somewhere you know!
:D
No, i knew you were kidding:)
I have it on CD .
Quite. I was a huge Cocteaus fan until they signed to Fontana - they really lost their edge and blanded out after that point and I stopped caring - harsh, I know. But Liz sounds so much better when their music is filled with dramatic peaks and crescendos - too much of their stuff from 93 onwards sounded like anonymous coffee-bar lounge muzak to me. :)
Johnny wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Didn't the Cocteau Twins once bring out an EP titled "Echoes In A Shall Obey"?
Echoes In A Shallow Bay.
And Liz sings "paddy paddy bycycle dewdrops drops" on Pearly Dewdrops Drops
she sings words?
AgentWood wrote:
Johnny wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Didn't the Cocteau Twins once bring out an EP titled "Echoes In A Shall Obey"?
Echoes In A Shallow Bay.
And Liz sings "paddy paddy bycycle dewdrops drops" on Pearly Dewdrops Drops
she sings words?
hmm.quite.
vocal innotations? gutteral wails?
