Shall obey or shallow bay?

i've always thought it was 'i can and shall obey.' the other choice never crossed my mind until johnny's observation, even though it makes perfect sense. now i'm utterly confused.

We all know it's "shallow bay" in BM and "butter crunch" in 1963.

Old Blue wrote: If the ship is in the harbour, then how can it be in a shallow bay as well?

because the tides out

john dougherty wrote: I see a ship in the harbor I can, and shall, obey....

it means that "the writing is on the wall" with the fucked up relationship he is discussing...the ship representing the doomed fate of it....time for him to move on

as in " two ships that pass in the night"

well...thats my two cents, anyway.

huh?

that sounds like some confusing thing that i would write.

Johnny wrote: In Blue Monday I always thought, for years, that Bernard sings "I see a ship in the harbour/I can and shall obey".Until someone suggested he sings "I see a ship in the harbour/Anchored in a shallow bay"

I used to hear it as "echoes in shallow bay". And hell, as a non-English speaker there's been lots of lines that I've heard differently from those who have bothered to actually try to decipher these lyrics and put them as subtitles on DVDs or on their webpages.

But as Barney would say: "let's not get all complicated". ;)

Old Blue wrote: If the ship is in the harbour, then how can it be in a shallow bay as well?

Yeah, why cant a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.

Maybe Barney can solve this.He`s into boats and stuff.

As for me. i`m just pissed after a day in the pub debating how may vegatbles makes a good healthy diet

Patrick wrote: You really started something this time, Johnny.

It`s my 15 minutes of fame!:)

Johnny wrote: Yeah, why cant a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.

Huh!?

NObabe wrote:

Johnny wrote: Yeah, why cant a ship sit in a shallow bay? It would sit there if the tide was out.Wouldnt be a good time to drop anchor if the tide was out.I mean a boat can sit in an empty bay ,let alone a shallow bay.But then i guess if a ship was in an empty bay it would kind of , fall on it`s side.That would be pretty disastrous to say the least.

Huh!?

I know.Its total nonsense.ill edit it tommorrow when i`m sober.

Ill umm.. drop anchor on this subject for the night.Things will be much clearer in the morning im sure

Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?

Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?

It was the GENERAL BELGRANO.Not Belgranto.But it was out at sea when it was sunk.Not in a shallow bay.

But the lyrics did seem to adress the Falklands war at the time.And war in general i guess.

Johnny wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)

It was the GENERAL BELGRANO.Not Belgranto.

Sorry.

Johnny wrote: But it was out at sea when it was sunk.Not in a shallow bay.

But the lyrics did seem to adress the Falklands war at the time.And war in general i guess.

Artistic license?

Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?

NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.

Anyway, just to add to the debate, I always thought it was I can in shallow bay, never thought about anything else until I saw it here, seems to be mainly yanks that think it's shall obay, strange!

As someone from less than 50 miles from salford, and therefore have a good understanding of the accent, I declare myself to be correct:D

I'll let you know what the Japanese lyric booklet says when my copy of Singles arrives later on this week! :p

(Not that they will be right, of course)!

My stance is that it's "I can, and shall, obey" (and the official Warners lyrics site backs this up)!

Actually, pretty damn good website that (Warner Chappells), which confirms that:

a) Fine Time:

"The Past Doesn't Matter" is the synthesized voice and "You've got love Technique" is the last line!

b) Temptation:

"A Heaven I'd Get With A Hope Just Like The Feeling Inside It's No Joke And Though It Hurts Me To Treat You This Way Betrayed My Words I'd Never Heard Too Hard To Say Up Down Turn Around Please Don't Let Me Hit The Ground Tonight I Think I'll Walk Alone I'll Find My Soul As I Go Home

Each Way I Turn I Know I'll Always Try To Break This Circle That's Been Placed Around Me From Time To Time I Find I've Lost Some Need That Was Urgent To Myself I Do Believe Up Down Turn Around Please Don't Let Me Hit The Ground Tonight I Think I'll Walk Alone I'll Find My Soul As I Go Home

Oh You've Got Green Eyes Oh You've Got Blue Eyes Oh You've Got Grey Eyes And I've Never Seen Anyone Quite Like You Before No I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before Thoughts From Above Hit The People Down Below People In This World We Have No Place To Go Oh It's The Last Time Oh I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before Oh No I've Never Met Anyone Quite Like You Before"

Hmmm... :)

Jed Stephens wrote:

NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.

You can't dismiss the idea, as it does make sense out of the lines.

Chris Nash wrote:

Now stop pondering kids...

I like to ponder some things.If that`s ok with you.

It's "shall obey". If it was "shallow bay", then the lyrics would have to be "I can and shallow bay" and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

leather_girl wrote: It's "shall obey". If it was "shallow bay", then the lyrics would have to be "I can and shallow bay" and it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

yeah but it wouldn`t be "i can and shallow bay" it could be "anchored in a shallow bay".

And "anchored in a shallow bay" makes absolute sense after "i see a ship in the harbour"

New Order Song Book 1981-1989 confirms "shall obey" Dissapointing."anchored in a shallow bay" makes more sense.

I think the deal with BM's lyrics is that they were chosen kind of randomly by Barney (probably while completely out of his mind, as it were), but they ended up addressing the notion of fascism, both political and within a personal relationship, and conflating the two.

Church of the KLF wrote: I think the deal with BM's lyrics is that they were chosen kind of randomly by Barney (probably while completely out of his mind, as it were), but they ended up addressing the notion of fascism, both political and within a personal relationship, and conflating the two.

A good summation.Spot on.

Jed Stephens wrote:

Christopher Owens wrote: Isn't the song supposed to be about the Belgranto (I see a ship in the harbour), and about the mindlessness of war and how it reduces humans to nothing (I can and shall obey)?

NO making an anti-war song at a time when hooky wore a t-shirt saying kill 'em all let god sort 'em out, and steve looked like adolf, doubt it.

Anyway, just to add to the debate, I always thought it was I can in shallow bay, never thought about anything else until I saw it here, seems to be mainly yanks that think it's shall obay, strange!

As someone from less than 50 miles from salford, and therefore have a good understanding of the accent, I declare myself to be correct:D

So which are you saying? I'm still lost in translation here ... ancored in a shallow bay?

just because it is printed somewhere as "shall obey" still just means that somebody sometime just thought that was what he was saying (just like we do) 'cause I sincerly doubt Bernard has ever officially released an actual transcript of his early lyrics

Try this one

Like in a Shallow Bay.

Someone mentioned it to me years ago.

anyone good at lip reading? maybe that's a way forward in lyrical debates............

its shall obey...i think:\ohwell:

Maybe Bernard had been drinking heavily on his Yacht and was "wankered in a shallow bay" ?

To conclude - i guess it must be "i can and shall obey" although " anchored in a shallow bay " really does make more sense.