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What's the most totally let down you;ve ever felt with New Order?
I sit here expecting to read 14000 posts about WIFM or pishstream.
For me it's the backing tapes. All my NO loving life I've adored the fact that they are the band who don't mime, then suddenly they are miming on TOTP, and then the greatest disgrace of all, prerecorded music at concerts. It sounds crap, reduces them to the lowly level of other ORDINARY bands, and more than that it's a con.
Keep music live keep machines live
when phil pretends he's actually playing the keyboards - its really embarrasing - bring back gillian!
when i learned that they weren't coming to Oz in early 06, as this year they actually toured the world.
This years performance of Jetstream on the Jonathan Ross show
must rank as an all-time 'lowlight' surely!!! Although,
Hooky's 'wiving wegends' slogan on his bass cabs raised a
chuckle.
I have to agree with the miming but also such long holidays, I'd like an album at least every 2 years, at least 3 singles a year, and a tour of north west (England)cities, i.e. Preston. not too much to ask for.
Yeah, the years when they were taking a break from each other were disappointing - however necessary - but each time they got back it felt fantastic - like coming home for Christmas in fact. ;)
Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
Then watching the 511 DVD and noticing that tapes were being used for Blue Monday.
:angry2:
And the miming for 'Krafty' on TOTP.
Royser wrote: hearing Republic after being teased with Regret
Agreed! Regret is classic NO, that album is shite!
I've only ever played that album once in it's entirety, when I first bought it! I hate Ruined in a day with a passion.
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
Lowlife's my favourite!
They havent really! - I suppose the day I bought LowLife - I was having a BAD day & it didn't really perk me up enough! But then the fact that I can still vividly remember that day 20 years later . . .
I'm sure there's more, but the good times outweigh the bad.
NObabe wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
i'm scratchin me head over that one too. low life is boss. my most played one.
john kershaw wrote:
NObabe wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
i'm scratchin me head over that one too. low life is boss. my most played one.
He's just an aging goth, knows a shit 
I don't really look at it as disappointments, more a case of the typical inconsistency that has watermarked their career.
* seemingly endless and gratuitous remixes - why? * miming on TOTP etc after years of refusing to sell out - understanable but unpalatable all the same * backing tapes rather than sequencers - lazy * the need for Bernard to introduce every song these days - why? * over-reliance on "greatest hits" live - given the increasingly hardcore audience there is surely no need to pander to those who only know certain songs? We want to hear different stuff, not Blue Monday, True Faith and BLT!
But the main one is the compromising on the earlier policy of mixing the set up every night. The rationale behind this decision of theirs is well-documented and understandable if not appreciated, but it wouldn't really hurt them to learn 25 or so songs for a series of dates and really mix it up a bit. I think we'd all prefer a wider setlist variety, rather than living up to their name by playing the same 15 songs more often than not, with subtle changes like swapping tracks 1 and 2 over......
robert mellor wrote: This years performance of Jetstream on the Jonathan Ross show
must rank as an all-time 'lowlight' surely!!! Although,
Hooky's 'wiving wegends' slogan on his bass cabs raised a
chuckle.
oh yeah, i forgot that one, Barney's bad dancing reached new lows that night with his running around dance thing - it made me cringe with embarrasment
NO Regret wrote: WIFM?
Without doubt! Other than the rap and the playing for fcuking eng-er-land bit it's alright. It also spawned the "They only got to Number 1 cos it was an England song" 
I remember feeling 'crushed' by that Subculture re-hash and also disappointed by Fine Time (though I quickly learned to accept that one).
But, fcuk me, I was a mere stripling for both offerings.
Can't imagine getting 'disappointed' by anything a band may, or may not, do nowadays. Leave that one to the teenagers and their angst.
i agree FINE TIME was last when i first heard it. still skip it now.
YOUNG OFFENDER is another.
some of the vids like RUINED IN A DAY and 1963. CRAP!!
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
Taken entirely out of context. Technique was released nigh on four years after Low-Life, of course. When are you going to get round to listening to Movement one wonders?
NObabe wrote:
john kershaw wrote:
NObabe wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
i'm scratchin me head over that one too. low life is boss. my most played one.
He's just an aging goth, knows a shit
He listened to them in the wrong order obviously. Low life being mid 80's, technique being late 80's/dancy/ibiza time
Al Jarvis wrote: I remember feeling 'crushed' by that Subculture re-hash and also disappointed by Fine Time (though I quickly learned to accept that one).
But, fcuk me, I was a mere stripling for both offerings.
Can't imagine getting 'disappointed' by anything a band may, or may not, do nowadays. Leave that one to the teenagers and their angst.
You just caused a shudder of remembrance Al! Sub-culture was such a shock to the system, how they had taken a good live track and mutated it so badly. I never got Fine Time, still don't.
john kershaw wrote:
NObabe wrote:
john kershaw wrote:
NObabe wrote:
Christopher Owens wrote: Listening to LowLife after getting Technique.
i'm scratchin me head over that one too. low life is boss. my most played one.
He's just an aging goth, knows a shit
He listened to them in the wrong order obviously. Low life being mid 80's, technique being late 80's/dancy/ibiza time
An aging goth chosing Ibiza vibe over A MASTERPIECE, now that's silly!
"Get Ready" after waiting years for a comeback.It's not bad,and it's still got Crystal and 60 MPH,but it's not great. And apart from the great melodica on Turn My Way,am I the only one who thinks it's a fcuking camp-fire song?
Miming
Title Tracks! (what's the world coming too)
WFTSC (the album- see why I hate title tracks that are singles?)
Jetstream
Remixes
Jetstream
Jetstream
Endless compilations and re-releases: they're becoming like REM...
Never play in Scotland (who does, really...) 
No B-Sides
Phil's guitar lines
Jetstream
Jetstream
Still, that's all. As the other guy said, the good outnumbers the bad.
monty wrote:
And apart from the great melodica on Turn My Way,am I the only one who thinks it's a fcuking camp-fire song?
Nope, you are not alone!
The Subculture remixed single. Following Lowlife and the fantastic full length Perfect Kiss 12", I gathered my Smiths loving mates together and played them the Subculture 12" having not listened to it myself
Not having the balls to split up properly, and then making a lame comeback.
I mean, the last seven years' worth of gigs have just been shite, right? NO aren't fit to kiss the collective arses of British Sea Power's fans.
oldmonkey wrote:
monty wrote:
And apart from the great melodica on Turn My Way,am I the only one who thinks it's a fcuking camp-fire song?
Nope, you are not alone!
its a great track. has a low-life essence to it.
campfire song. what planet you on? 
I generally accept a certain amount of shoddiness as an endearing NO trait...
...but the 2nd remix disc of Ruined in a Day was one of the worst CDs ever made...
twist wrote: Having Bono in The New Order Story.
I second that, very painful. Could you please remove him from your avatar?
Technique was my first NO album (after International) and I loved it. Great songs from start to finish. LowLife was my second and I remember hoping that it would grow on me,(as I'd heard TLU and TPK on International and wasn't impressed)I must have given it about eight plays and it simply didn't. To me it was the equivilent of having you ears massaged with a cheesegrinder. Later on, I found out that it was the fans favourite. So I tried it again, but the same reaction.
Nearly stopped listening to NO after that, but Movement got me back into them.
The whole of 1985 was fantastic.Perfect Kiss 12" and LOW LIFE - Love Vigilantes , This Time Of Night ,Sunrise ,Subculture.... Great gigs (although didnt actually get to them :( )
And the emergence of a great new song that year-As It Is When It Was
Then start of 1986 and i'm looking forward to some more new great songs and then one night in March i have the radio on and hear Shellshock (7") for the very first time.. AAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
Soooooo dissappointed.Im fact that word didn't even begin to start covering it. But since then i learned to prepare myself for things like that happening again
RedKen wrote:
robert mellor wrote: This years performance of Jetstream on the Jonathan Ross show
must rank as an all-time 'lowlight' surely!!! Although,
Hooky's 'wiving wegends' slogan on his bass cabs raised a
chuckle.
oh yeah, i forgot that one, Barney's bad dancing reached new lows that night with his running around dance thing - it made me cringe with embarrasment
- but overall a few lows over 25 years or so isnt too bad, had much more dissapointments with the Mrs over 7 years:D
I bet that's what she says as well!
Matt Hicks wrote:
- 8 years on holiday (93-2001), at the peak of their powers (a waste)
I just thought, putting things in perspective, this is likely to be what made them legends, elvis and mohamed ali did a simlar thing, did them no harm.
oldmonkey wrote: I don't really look at it as disappointments, more a case of the typical inconsistency that has watermarked their career.
* seemingly endless and gratuitous remixes - why?
Agreed! I would guess it's a good steady income and is a good indicator of how influential they are since I'm sure the remixers are coming to them rather than the other way around.
* miming on TOTP etc after years of refusing to sell out - understanable but unpalatable all the same
What was the first performance they mimed? I would assume they started post-seperation?
* backing tapes rather than sequencers - lazy
The backing tapes were more reliable, I guess. Like for Temptation '98 Commonweath Games, for instance?
* the need for Bernard to introduce every song these days - why?
This is actually a very interesting observation. It's probably to give me more work, haha. I suspect a lot of it is he's "going through the motions"...I don't mean that in the sense of his heart's not into it (that's a different argument altogether), but more along the lines of that he's hamming it up as the "frontman", and is doing what they're supposed to do. Except in this case, his tongue is firmly in cheek.
* over-reliance on "greatest hits" live - given the increasingly hardcore audience there is surely no need to pander to those who only know certain songs? We want to hear different stuff, not Blue Monday, True Faith and BLT!
I think the problem here is that there's an even larger segment that would complain about not hearing their favorite NO song. Like with the band making sure to deliver Diggy Mike on his BM fix.
Plus, while the 'ardcore would wet themselves over hearing Lonsome Tonight/Age Of Consent/TPK, etc (I know I would!)...does the band? Not all of this is due to them having to reprogram tracks and rehearse the songs...there might be more personal reasons not to do certain tracks. But the main reason is that most of the gigs they've done have been for festivals, not the local hall in Wigan or Stoke-On-Trent. ;)
My beef is that they should play more New Order songs, no need to do both a NO and a JD best-of every set. A few more from WFTSC would be a start, it would at least suggest that the album is as good as some would have you believe.
But the main one is the compromising on the earlier policy of mixing the set up every night. The rationale behind this decision of theirs is well-documented and understandable if not appreciated, but it wouldn't really hurt them to learn 25 or so songs for a series of dates and really mix it up a bit. I think we'd all prefer a wider setlist variety, rather than living up to their name by playing the same 15 songs more often than not, with subtle changes like swapping tracks 1 and 2 over......
I find it amusing that they do *just* enough to say that it's not the same setlist, but yeah, it's not keeping with the spirit of their pre-89 incarnation.
Actually, it probably *would* really hurt them. We're not talking about a touring machine, but a bunch of weekenders to provide the soundtrack for a bunch of merry festival-goers. With that said, maybe Brixton and MCR's set will be different. After all, they did bring out Warsaw and Shadowplay, while the former was reported to have been soundchecked before, the latter was a complete surprise!
The Happy One wrote:
oldmonkey wrote: I don't really look at it as disappointments, more a case of the typical inconsistency that has watermarked their career.
* seemingly endless and gratuitous remixes - why?
Agreed! I would guess it's a good steady income and is a good indicator of how influential they are since I'm sure the remixers are coming to them rather than the other way around.
* miming on TOTP etc after years of refusing to sell out - understanable but unpalatable all the same
What was the first performance they mimed? I would assume they started post-seperation?
* backing tapes rather than sequencers - lazy
The backing tapes were more reliable, I guess. Like for Temptation '98 Commonweath Games, for instance?
* the need for Bernard to introduce every song these days - why?
This is actually a very interesting observation. It's probably to give me more work, haha. I suspect a lot of it is he's "going through the motions"...I don't mean that in the sense of his heart's not into it (that's a different argument altogether), but more along the lines of that he's hamming it up as the "frontman", and is doing what they're supposed to do. Except in this case, his tongue is firmly in cheek.
* over-reliance on "greatest hits" live - given the increasingly hardcore audience there is surely no need to pander to those who only know certain songs? We want to hear different stuff, not Blue Monday, True Faith and BLT!
I think the problem here is that there's an even larger segment that would complain about not hearing their favorite NO song. Like with the band making sure to deliver Diggy Mike on his BM fix.
Plus, while the 'ardcore would wet themselves over hearing Lonsome Tonight/Age Of Consent/TPK, etc (I know I would!)...does the band? Not all of this is due to them having to reprogram tracks and rehearse the songs...there might be more personal reasons not to do certain tracks. But the main reason is that most of the gigs they've done have been for festivals, not the local hall in Wigan or Stoke-On-Trent. ;)
My beef is that they should play more New Order songs, no need to do both a NO and a JD best-of every set. A few more from WFTSC would be a start, it would at least suggest that the album is as good as some would have you believe.
But the main one is the compromising on the earlier policy of mixing the set up every night. The rationale behind this decision of theirs is well-documented and understandable if not appreciated, but it wouldn't really hurt them to learn 25 or so songs for a series of dates and really mix it up a bit. I think we'd all prefer a wider setlist variety, rather than living up to their name by playing the same 15 songs more often than not, with subtle changes like swapping tracks 1 and 2 over......
I find it amusing that they do *just* enough to say that it's not the same setlist, but yeah, it's not keeping with the spirit of their pre-89 incarnation.
Actually, it probably *would* really hurt them. We're not talking about a touring machine, but a bunch of weekenders to provide the soundtrack for a bunch of merry festival-goers. With that said, maybe Brixton and MCR's set will be different. After all, they did bring out Warsaw and Shadowplay, while the former was reported to have been soundchecked before, the latter was a complete surprise!
Yer a funny fucker, and I love you!!
oldmonkey wrote:
* the need for Bernard to introduce every song these days - why?
This really has been bugging me lately. Where's the suspense?
I really like hearing a song start and searching my brain to figure out what it's going to be. In Oakland this year, I could tell several of the songs before they started (and before Bernard introduced them) by the guitar he was holding... Nothing like the old days...
loving fine time when it was first released--then coming to the realization a few years back that it does, in fact, suck.
OOH I'd forgotten the tard-o-prompter.
GOD I hate that thing.
And yes the introducing songs thing......hmmmmmm gun to your head there Bernard?
Sounds to me like AOLTW have told him to TRY and act like the front man in a pop group. I don't think he likes doing it, he looks like he's licked half an ounce of speed every time he says song names, and as for that New york gig, LOL, they send cameras, so every time barney says a really stoopid fake, rock and roll thing, 2 secs later he "barneys" in a big way.
I think the reason many of these things bug us is because we're losing our well earned and well deserved feeling of smug superiority over the rest of music fan kind.....we can no longer glibly say..."hmpfh, New Order would never do that".
Oddly enough, the pantomime horse thing and all don't phase me, it's only our delusions hat make them out to be anything BUT nutters ut for a good time :)
Digital Mike Binoche wrote: Blue Monday
Same Sets
Too many Joy Division tracks in the set
Auto Cue
I agree with BM and same sets, but I think the fact that they're playing more Joy Division tracks is brilliant. They bring back so many memories and as the band have said, it shows that they've got to the stage of getting over all the hurt that surrounded them in 1980.
In fact I'd love it if they played a complete JD set at either of the upcoming gigs. I wouldn't be too disappointed with a complete New Order set either.
A mixture of both would be great.
Just no WIFM and that c**t KA
John Sludden wrote: Can't say i was overly fond of the Sub Culture, Shellshock and State of the nation 12"s.
oh yes the lowest point on the altimetre by far,oh and you can throw tpk in there for me n all utter overindulgent shite.
mike powell wrote:
John Sludden wrote: Can't say i was overly fond of the Sub Culture, Shellshock and State of the nation 12"s.
oh yes the lowest point on the altimetre by far,oh and you can throw tpk in there for me n all utter overindulgent shite.
RED CARD OFFENCE, SURELY???
RedKen wrote:
robert mellor wrote: This years performance of Jetstream on the Jonathan Ross show
must rank as an all-time 'lowlight' surely!!! Although,
Hooky's 'wiving wegends' slogan on his bass cabs raised a
chuckle.
oh yeah, i forgot that one, Barney's bad dancing reached new lows that night with his running around dance thing - it made me cringe with embarrasment
the dancing was the least embarrassing surely, the vocals were the pits, how that Ana ever got invited I really don't know
Geri wrote:
RedKen wrote:
robert mellor wrote: This years performance of Jetstream on the Jonathan Ross show
must rank as an all-time 'lowlight' surely!!! Although,
Hooky's 'wiving wegends' slogan on his bass cabs raised a
chuckle.
oh yeah, i forgot that one, Barney's bad dancing reached new lows that night with his running around dance thing - it made me cringe with embarrasment
the dancing was the least embarrassing surely, the vocals were the pits, how that Ana ever got invited I really don't know
vocals were bad , but barney's embarrasing uncle at a wedding dance was f***ing awful that night - an all time low for me...
Doctor Clayhead wrote:
mike powell wrote:
John Sludden wrote: Can't say i was overly fond of the Sub Culture, Shellshock and State of the nation 12"s.
oh yes the lowest point on the altimetre by far,oh and you can throw tpk in there for me n all utter overindulgent shite.
RED CARD OFFENCE, SURELY???
I'm thinking tar and feathers
After getting the Republic LP, and hearing the stirrings of rumors of the imminent breakup.. the annoyance at thinking "well, there goes my fave band, and I'm now all out of luck seeing them unless by the hand of god they sort it all out one day". That was one long wait.
I appreciate them taking the time off to get straightened and reorganized.. I'd rather have hope they'd have gotten back in the studio as opposed to them hating each other so much they never released another album again or did what the KLF did to their back catalogue - and really, I think we'd all weep at that.
Taken a raincheck on this, and would now say that yes they have disappointed me. Slapping Brotherhood on the turntable and experiencing that excruciatingly bad production and god-awful songs was too much to take. Thankfully those same dreadful songs sounded more palatable live when drunk. Whatever possessed them to record Every Little Counts is still beyond me.
For years I just thought brotherhood had been the victim of a cutting engineer who hadn't got a fucking clue. Then heard the CD. WTF were they listening on when they were mixing/mastering that album?
I must say the lowest point was the break-up followed by the Jetstream performances with Ana (Sorry but she can't sing worth a fuk)
The introduction of every song is outright annoying as well. We know the damn songs and if you don't then you're not a big fan or you need to go back to the album track listings. We're not 4yr olds.
No Gillian is another downer. No disrespect to Phil.
Retro is probably next since it left so much to be desired.
In a general sense, the fear of them conforming is on the list as well. I felt this listening to "Hey now what you doing" and then I was saved by the title track and "Guilt".
((((e))))
