Seeing as neworderstory has been re-released, it reminds me of a quote from Bono in the 1993 documentary, when he says U2 are the band Joy Division would have become.If that's the case why did U2 become so more globally successful (in terms of record sales) than New Order? Was Live Aid their kickstart? Was it because NO were so bloody-minded and refused to play the game?If AHW is a twat, is Bono a cunt?What do you think?
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Are U2 the band Joy Division would have become?
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
Barcaboy99 wrote: Seeing as neworderstory has been re-released, it reminds me of a quote from Bono in the 1993 documentary, when he says U2 are the band Joy Division would have become.If that's the case why did U2 become so more globally successful (in terms of record sales) than New Order? Was Live Aid their kickstart? Was it because NO were so bloody-minded and refused to play the game?If AHW is a twat, is Bono a cunt?What do you think?
Bono is a cunt!! especially in NOStory.....he's intentions are quite pretencious in this documentary (and thank God short!!).....so, is he really a number 2 singer? after Ian? has he forgotten David Bowie? and the meaning of true (uncorrapted) art? I think U2 did have a few good songs (in their early stage)....now they are just wankers.....manipulating with music/art/politics/world/etc.etc.etc.
Bono
you are so not numero dos.......
U2 are the band joy division would have become... more like new order are the band bono wishes U2 had become. wishful thinking, bono.
AgentWood wrote: U2 are the band joy division would have become... more like new order are the band bono wishes U2 had become. wishful thinking, bono.
Hmmm. Was just watching the NO Story a few hours ago, wanted to see that old footage of Joy Division from "Something Else" again...and I loathe the way Bono pops us just as "Transmission" is coming to a climax and says, with a smirk on his face, "the holy voice of Ian Curtis." 
I really didn't need to see Bono in the middle of that. Then reading this thread I got the comical mental image of Ian Curtis waiving a big white flag and shouting "No more! No war!" and strutting around the stage like a rock star...
Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
I always liked the old Japanese subtitles to bootlegs of the New Order Story. Their translation of "I Remember Nothing" as "I Remember Milton" was classic!
His Holiness, The Pope wrote: I always liked the old Japanese subtitles to bootlegs of the New Order Story. Their translation of "I Remember Nothing" as "I Remember Milton" was classic!
Ho, Ho! Bit more learned those Japanese then.
Barcaboy99 wrote: U2 are the band Joy Division would have become.
Jealousy makes people say crazy stuff
Well, certainly before Ian died, Joy Division were more musically original, with more musical integrity than U2.
New Order carried that on, at least until signing to 'London' Records.
If Joy Division had carried on with Ian, I don't think they'd have continually gone down the 'sell-out-pop-star' route as U2 seem to have continually done.
The only thing Bongo really has in his favour these days is that he liked Joy Division.
So no, I don't think that U2 are the band Joy Division would have become - if they had been, I'd have stopped being a JD/NO fan around 1983.
His Holiness, The Pope wrote: New Order is the band that Joy Division became, and thank god for that.
ahmen to that,
bono was the only character that didn't fit in neworder story. i guess he took a break from trying to save the world.
Anchor Girl wrote:
AgentWood wrote: U2 are the band joy division would have become... more like new order are the band bono wishes U2 had become. wishful thinking, bono.
couldn't have put it better myself.
Nope. JD would not have become as big as U2, simply because their music lacked mass appeal.
Stop throwing things, you know it's the truth.
U2's music has pop sensibilities, where JD's music is very dark, with insular lyrics that would make the average mainstream listener want to slit their wrists.
JD is one of my favorite bands ever and their music means a lot to me, but I don't believe for a second that they would have reached U2's level of popularity had Ian lived.
I think AW summed it up perfectly- NO ARE the band that Bongo and U2 wish they became. Slightly off-topic but still JD related; had the telly on in the background on Celebrity Overhaul and would you fooking believe that they've had both JD's Love Will Tear Us Apart and Stone Rose's Fool's Gold on in the background. Last week it was NO's Temptation '87. As I've said many times before, let's hope there's some decent cheques making thier way to Manchester for the priviledge of the commercial networks using what we all know to be sublime musical Meisterwerks.
Aries wrote: Nope. JD would not have become as big as U2, simply because their music lacked mass appeal.
Stop throwing things, you know it's the truth.
U2's music has pop sensibilities, where JD's music is very dark, with insular lyrics that would make the average mainstream listener want to slit their wrists.
JD is one of my favorite bands ever and their music means a lot to me, but I don't believe for a second that they would have reached U2's level of popularity had Ian lived.
Yep - you cannot compare the two. totally different bands with different goals.
that joy division and new order are great bands we as fans can agree on, but there is no way, no way, they will ever get the attention that U2 gets, whether we wish it or not. new order's songwriting is just different and sometimes really great and sometimes really bad. U2 songs can move iPods. each band has different goals.
John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
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John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
on main menu?:D
Anchor Girl wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
on main menu?:D
Hm.. I tried. I guess I have to try again, once I'll get home.
Anchor Girl wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
on main menu?:D
Nice one my friend. I for one like both New Order and U2, and they are both fighting for supremacy in my iPod!
I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
I rather like the occasnional U2 tune, but Bongo makes my fucking flesh crawl. FWIW, I was under the impression NO were the band JD would have become. what you think if Ian hadn't had enough, that he's have stayed miserable acting his whole life? Ian was a wag as much as Barney steve or hooky....by the mid 80's do you REALLY think he would not also have sunk ( or climbed dependin how u like your NO) to "I've got a cock like the M1" ?
U2 have this problem, somewhere along the way, they got into getting their gobs on every good or controversial cause going, doing ipod adds and the like. They've lost sight of the fact it's about playing music and partying in between times.
It's a shame cos they're not bad musicians. Mind you, have you ever seen Bill Bailey demonstrating how to be The Edge? ROFLMAO, so true, I'm sure Bill will be shot if he visits Dublin :)
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Anchor Girl wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
on main menu?:D
Hm.. I tried. I guess I have to try again, once I'll get home.
I think they offer a selection of 12 or so languages so, please do try again. good luck!
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
I absolutely can't agree with you on this one. JD, in my opinion, don't lack anything. They were one of a few geniune bands who created the most profound music I've ever come across. I can't imagine them as a kind of representation of the music for masses (btw, with all respect to Depeche Mode!) In relation to U2, I kept only two of their albums (earlier stuff) c's I just think they lost it......though I give them a credit for the fact that they had it....once upon a time.
P.S. Have you listened to the Variations on Joy Division yet?
d13 wrote:
Anchor Girl wrote:
|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:
John Cains wrote: Watch NO Story when Love Will Tear Us Apart is on and Bono singing during it. It is very embarrassing. Strangely though, I don't find Bono as irritating as Sting and Bob Geldof these days. I don't know why. Are U2 a good band? Yes. Are U2 as good a band as New Order/Joy Division? No.
If anyone's wants a laugh though. Watch the New Order story on DVD with the subtitles on. They keep getting words wrong all the time. Like 'buns' instead of 'bands'. Or 'Baisuers' instead of 'Bezzers'. I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
Where did you find subtitles on NewOrderStory DVD?
on main menu?:D
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
however, in regard to "trading places", I think you're right- U2 would never do that. they wouldn't want to stop doing good deeds in the world!! or would they?
Joy Division (and New Order for that matter) are too willing to be different, even at the risk of selling out to mainstream listeners and alienating devout fans or alienating mainstream listeners and winning over devout fans. U2, while not being repetative persay have a formula and they stick to it. Apart from sounding nothing like Joy Division even in their earliest work (in my opinion), U2 doesn't seem to be able to make a song in which Bono can't throw his arms up into the sky and gaze into the face of God through his sunglass goggle things. I don't think anybody can really speculate what Joy Division would have made if they were able to continue because it would've probably been something new. Same goes for Nirvana, who knows? Kurt Cobain mentioned he was finding new inspiration in Moby and electronica, so the sky's the limit with groups like that. U2 is talented and successful, incapable of having no boundaries.
We are DENIED hearing what Joy Division's music would have evolved into.
I do agree that JD did not appeal to all, but if you take into account Ceremony they were already undertaking a metamorphosis which emerged as NO. I think that this sets them apart from U2 due to the fact that they have been involved in two completely different types of music of their own making - has any other band with 3 members still intact achieved this? Perhaps they should play on this fact.
I think JD would have become NO regardless...
If Ian hadn't killed himself it's highly likely he would have had a breakdown and left the band with his life intact.
...then maybe the remaining members would have decided to carry on as New Order, or maybe they would have kept the name Joy Division, but would have ended up doing NO music anyway...
Old U2 music was from the soul; as was all of JD's music.
Most of U2's new stuff isn't from the soul, whereas most of NO still is and Amen to that!
There is no way that JD or NO would have survived the pressure that global fame brings. Can you imagine NO going on a 200 date global tour - they would have been dead or split up after 50 gigs.
There is no way of knowing what JD would have become but I guess that apart from Lyrics much the same would have followed. Barney always said that Ian was getting into electronic music - they would have still wanted to avoid the encores so Blue Monday would still have been written.
They are different and whilst U2 can write an occasioinal cracking tune - they don't have the integrity or quality control that New Order have.
I don't really think so. While I consider U2 to be more decent in terms of music quality compared to most recent bands, I still think they're a little overrated.
Anchor Girl wrote:
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
I absolutely can't agree with you on this one. JD, in my opinion, don't lack anything. They were one of a few geniune bands who created the most profound music I've ever come across. I can't imagine them as a kind of representation of the music for masses (btw, with all respect to Depeche Mode!) In relation to U2, I kept only two of their albums (earlier stuff) c's I just think they lost it......though I give them a credit for the fact that they had it....once upon a time.
P.S. Have you listened to the Variations on Joy Division yet?
Exactly, they aren't for the masses. Not enough people can actually understand brilliant music as being just that. U2 is something that pretty much everyone can hear and somewhat like. In no respect does that mean I prefer U2, JD is my love in this case.
Variations? Is that a tribute album? I'm not sure, I have over 100 Joy Division cover versions, so chances are at least a few tracks are from there. Any good?
Anchor Girl wrote:
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
however, in regard to "trading places", I think you're right- U2 would never do that. they wouldn't want to stop doing good deeds in the world!! or would they?
I think Bono is genuine in that he cares about the world and such, but sometimes he takes it too far.. Gah. 
Bono uses his fame and money to draw attention to world issues, and people find him annoying.
50 Cent uses his fame and money to put a gold-plated bathroom in his house and star in movies/video games, and people just expect it.
???
I don't think U2 would have been as successful if Bono offed himself and they had to try to recover from his legacy.
End of Story.
((((e))))
Aries wrote: Bono uses his fame and money to draw attention to world issues, and people find him annoying.
50 Cent uses his fame and money to put a gold-plated bathroom in his house and star in movies/video games, and people just expect it.
50 is the perfect label whore!!!
Nas is the true king of Hip-Hop!!!
((((e))))
I think that its without doubt. Without Bono, The Edge, Larry and Adam there would be no U2!
John Cains wrote: I guess whoever done the subtitles (Americans) don't understand the Mancunian accent.
no one understands the mancunian accent. btw-your grammar sucks.
No freakin' way. New Order is the band JD would have become, I think. Honestly, I think NO is better than JD would have been - but that's a topic for it's own forum, isn't it? Anyway, Bono is waaaaay too pretenious for his own good (and I'm a big fan of his). Do you think Ian Curtis would be in Cancun with Jan Weller of Rolling Stones (aka, the Paul McCartney/Bob Dylan tribute project) espoiusing how he speaks for the poor and disposessed? C'mon Bono, go to thre Clarence's bar and have another cocktail. U2 Do what they do very well, but they are no way as innovative as NO. Pop? That album was crap. I guess it was big in Europe, which shows how much the continentals know about music.....
"Bono once said to me, he (Ian Curtis), was the best. I was always the number two, but he was the best. But you know, I'll do it anyway. Now he's gone. But I think Bono did do it. I mean, I've never been a massive U2 fan, but when I saw him, that wonderful performance at LIVE AID, I thought well there you are. But Ian would have been better, even better." -Tony Wilson
I went to a U2 show last Saturday in Dallas. My brother and I had GA tickets and I was 24 in line, so let's say I had a nice spot. :) And let me say, U2 know how to put a show on. Bono is a great frontman and U2 is a great band.
I will always regret not being able to see Joy Division live. Joy Division is my all-time favorite band. Ian is one of my idols. I would give anything to see Ian and Joy Division up on that stage at American Airlines Centre in Dallas performing Transmission. Ian is the greatest frontman and Joy Division is the greatest band.
"Are U2 the band Joy Division would have become?" If you mean in the sense, would JD have been selling out arenas like U2, and have world-wide recognition like U2 does? Yes, they were that good. If you mean in the sense, would JD have a contract with Apple, or would Ian be picking a girl out of the audience at a show and sing "Love Will Tear Us Apart" to her, or pull a little kid onto the stage out of the crowd to help sing a song? No.
So, I think if Joy Division were still around, they would be big like U2, but not be like U2.
"Put it this way: we do it for ourselves, but we hope other people will still like it." -Ian Curtis, 1979.
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote:
Anchor Girl wrote:
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote: I am a U2 fan, I'm sorry. It's true. This does not mean however I prefer them to NO or JD. JD is the better band in my opinion, but from the looks of things, as someone stated earlier, they lack mass appeal. U2 may wish they were New Order, but I'd bet they wouldn't be willing to trade places, they'd miss the money.
I absolutely can't agree with you on this one. JD, in my opinion, don't lack anything. They were one of a few geniune bands who created the most profound music I've ever come across. I can't imagine them as a kind of representation of the music for masses (btw, with all respect to Depeche Mode!) In relation to U2, I kept only two of their albums (earlier stuff) c's I just think they lost it......though I give them a credit for the fact that they had it....once upon a time.
P.S. Have you listened to the Variations on Joy Division yet?
Exactly, they aren't for the masses. Not enough people can actually understand brilliant music as being just that. U2 is something that pretty much everyone can hear and so
Variations? Is that a tribute album? I'm not sure, I have over 100 Joy Division cover versions, so chances are at least a few tracks are from there. Any good?
yes!! it's by the Swedish chamber orchestra and it's utterly abysmal.....the best "cover", if you could call it that way....c's i think it doesn't match the criteria of "cover" music....it's more than that: JD's original ideas "served" as an inspiration for developing those ideas into something more profound than mere pop experience (though that "pop" experience is arty in JD's case). it just shows that even "pop" could be as high and profound as any form of classical music. Adorno would've changed his mind but he didn't live long enough to taste all changes of pop culture.
5 8 6 wrote: "Bono once said to me, he (Ian Curtis), was the best. I was always the number two, but he was the best. But you know, I'll do it anyway. Now he's gone. But I think Bono did do it. I mean, I've never been a massive U2 fan, but when I saw him, that wonderful performance at LIVE AID, I thought well there you are. But Ian would have been better, even better." -Tony Wilson
I went to a U2 show last Saturday in Dallas. My brother and I had GA tickets and I was 24 in line, so let's say I had a nice spot. :) And let me say, U2 know how to put a show on. Bono is a great frontman and U2 is a great band.
I will always regret not being able to see Joy Division live. Joy Division is my all-time favorite band. Ian is one of my idols. I would give anything to see Ian and Joy Division up on that stage at American Airlines Centre in Dallas performing Transmission. Ian is the greatest frontman and Joy Division is the greatest band.
"Are U2 the band Joy Division would have become?" If you mean in the sense, would JD have been selling out arenas like U2, and have world-wide recognition like U2 does? Yes, they were that good. If you mean in the sense, would JD have a contract with Apple, or would Ian be picking a girl out of the audience at a show and sing "Love Will Tear Us Apart" to her, or pull a little kid onto the stage out of the crowd to help sing a song? No.
So, I think if Joy Division were still around, they would be big like U2, but not be like U2.
"Put it this way: we do it for ourselves, but we hope other people will still like it." -Ian Curtis, 1979.
Well put.
By the time U2 started their glorious rocket ride to stadium rock, "CAN YA HEAR ME DES MOINES?", histrionics, there were'nt many people interested in cod-piece rawk stars, who wanted to use their celebrity in an earnest campaign for international social justice.
Still give 'em their due, everyone can learn from their
almost god-like self-belief.
No matter what they tell us we should'nt like, I did'nt think
"New Year's Day" was that bad. But Slade already had that market cornered.
buz wrote: By the time U2 started their glorious rocket ride to stadium rock, "CAN YA HEAR ME DES MOINES?", histrionics, there were'nt many people interested in cod-piece rawk stars, who wanted to use their celebrity in an earnest campaign for international social justice. Still give 'em their due, everyone can learn from their almost god-like self-belief.
I actually do like "New Year's Day". I just don't like what U2 have become.
im a massive U2 fan, yet they dont have the same appeal as joy division, to me at least. i would hate to see joy division all commercilised. i enjoy when people ask "who's your favorite band ever?" and i say "joy division". i like telling the story of JD and Ian Curtis, and how they became New Order. i'd hate for everyone to know who Joy Division are/were.
I was interested in your comments. I also like U2 and agree with you about JD, in fact would resent some of the people I know saying that they liked JD music. I also enjoy telling people the story, and how I got to like JD. I have never found JD music depressing as some of the people on this site, in fact quite the opposite. I also listen to other music that isn't mainstream, which means my collection of CD's is very varied. I'm a big blues fan which is not that popular these days, but I also like a lot of the current rock groups that are around. I'm female quite a lot older than most people on this site, which makes me even more unusual I guess.
U2 were good between Achtung Baby and "Discotheque". "Lemon", "Numb", "The fly" are fantastic -- a true sign of a band that doesn't give a fcuk about what fans, critics etc. think, because they simply feel they need to release these records. "Discotheque" gave me high hopes for Pop which, sadly, should have been called Pap and was the first sign of so-called U2's Return To Form, i.e. losing all signs of originality and shouting "please! take us back! we promise to do stadium rock from now on and never try to deviate half an inch!"
At least Ian would have not done that little walk across the Rose Garden with G.W. like Bongo did...
...although he may still be pulling "japes" as he would call them like smearing crap on door handles around the Buzzcocks....
...hard saying what Ian would have done...personally if he lived I think he would have eventually went into a home because of epilepsy or retired. The guy was not that well physically...
