barney vs morrissey

is there any animosity between barney and morrissey? i've always wondered if there are any bad blood between them. according to neil tennant, "getting away with it" was based on morrissey's lack of attention, or something like that. if there is animosity, how bad is it?? or, are they actually good friends. does anyone have any two cents on this???

kino zon wrote: is there any animosity between barney and morrissey? i've always wondered if there are any bad blood between them. according to neil tennant, "getting away with it" was based on morrissey's lack of attention, or something like that. if there is animosity, how bad is it?? or, are they actually good friends. does anyone have any two cents on this???

I haven't a clue on this... Although Neil Tennant claims that "Getting away with it" was written about Morrissey, in the end, songs can be interpreted any way you want to. When I listen to "Getting away with it" (and I love that song), I don't think of it being about Morrissey.

Their politics are certainly poles apart- does anyone remember all that Morrisey & BNP / NF stuff in the early 90's...

I get the feeling that Mozza didn't rate Barney/New Order.

craig's digitalwaters wrote: Their politics are certainly poles apart- does anyone remember all that Morrisey & BNP / NF stuff in the early 90's...

Speaking of artists who've used dubious political imagery... :p

The only thing I remember reading was that Morrissey thought Hooky was alright. Kind of odd they haven't talked about each other more, considering.

Was it Cornershop who burned pictures of Morrissey in front of his record label's building?

If anything Morrissey is probably still bitter about not getting signed to Factory and the cash machine that label turned into (sarcasm?)

Alistair wrote: I think they know each other, but are not close. I read an interview with Kevin Cummins (photographer) years ago when he was working with both Morrissey and Electronic. Apparently while Cummins was travelling between bands Mozzer would regularly ask how Marr and Bernard "AllBran" were doing. Mozzer combining Barney's one-time last name "Albrecht" with a breakfast cereal. I don't think Morrissey really dislikes Bernard but the fact he sort of replaced Morrissey as Marr's writing partner means there will always be a certain amount of tension there.

I also remember reading an interview with Moz circa 1996 and Electronic's Raise The Pressure. Moz was pondering how Marr could "lend himself to someone who writes such bad lyrics", and made it clear he was no fan of "italio-disco" that influenced RTP Again, it wasn't a vicious attack, just a few off the cuff/funny comments.

Since then I think New Order bumped into Morrissey at an airport this year and Hooky/Steve referred to him as "a damp looking poodle" or something like that. Gillian's apparently a big Moz fan. I wouldn't be surprised if Morrissey harbours a secret admiration of New Order, he has said he knows "they're really good for Manchester".

i do remember barney taking a shot at Moz at the Oakland gig this year. he was refering to Moz no show at the inland invasion in los angeles, due to illness. i remember reading here at the forum about "sooner than you think" was a respond to the smiths"how soon is now, but im not sure abt that. anyways, i guess one thing is for sure, moz is a prima donna, even his own fans says that about him. :D

Alistair wrote:

craig's digitalwaters wrote: Their politics are certainly poles apart- does anyone remember all that Morrisey & BNP / NF stuff in the early 90's...

Bollocks Anyone who is familiar with Morrissey's lyrics or read his interviews will know he's the polar opposite of being a racist or a BNP member. The guy's got a huge Latino fanbase and one of the newest additions to his band (and co-writer) is of Latino descent! He wrote a song called Mexico where he attacks the USA's attitude towards the country and says "If you're rich and you're white, you think you're so right. I just don't see why this should be so."

The album he was promoting around the time of the "Madstock" early 90s incident (Your Arsenal) had two hugely anti-BNP songs called "We'll Let You Know" and "National Front Disco". The former has lyrics from the viewpoint of the NF and mocks them "We may even be the most depressing people you will ever know" and the latter is about a family realising 'their boy' has been taken in by the NF. Those songs don't glorify racism, they mock them.

It's funny how Morrissey was bottled for draping himself in a Union Jack barely 3 years before Noel Gallagher/Damon Albarn would launch BritPop and you couldn't move for Union Jacks. Union Jack duvet covers, Union Jack patterned guitars; nobody seemed to get bottled in the mid nineties. Morrissey may have flirted with some questionable imagery in the past but he's definitely not a racist. A bit naive on occasion at worst.

Hmmmmm.... yes, JD had their 'flirtation' as well.

The important difference I see is that NO/JD were keen to point out that it was naive, misguided and ill-advised to flirt with imagery that could be misinterpreted.

Whereas... Morrisey never clarified that he was taking the piss with his lyrics; even when asked directly by the NME... It's fine to sing about these things and be ironic; which I got; I even bought the LP with these songs on; thinking he was taking the piss, but following his reluctance to clarify that he was and then poncing around with a union jack afterwards only got people's backs up more. Thats when I stopped buying his stuff and he drifted off into obscurity for a long time (presumably because a lot of other people weren't happy either)...

I've never seen / read or heard anything from him clarifying his position... but maybe he has clarified and I've missed this.

It's important not to be ambiguous when singing / writing about such things... you only need to read the news today to see why...

rubberlover666 wrote: Was it Cornershop who burned pictures of Morrissey in front of his record label's building?

If anything Morrissey is probably still bitter about not getting signed to Factory and the cash machine that label turned into (sarcasm?)

Cornershop did burn a picture of Morrissey outside EMI's headquarters in 1994 I believe, still tagging along to the "Morrissey is a racist" thing. Of course, a band of Asian descent burning a picture of Morrissey couldnt possibly be regarded as distasteful, could it?

The other Morrisey song which caused some comment was Bengali in Platforms ('shelve your western plans' & 'life is hard enough when you belong here'). Fetishisation of skinheads didn't help either. I agree that you have to be careful here, but I guess Moz didn't expect the critics to be *that* stupid.

But Bengali in Platforms barely got a mention, and seldom does these days. Its just a forgotten album track. Actually, its amazing that if Mozzers critics were going down the racist line, then this is the song that you could argue shows moz as a racist. Lines like "Life is hard enough when you belong here," are more controversial than say "because again and again he's explained/he's gone to the national/to the national/FRONT DISCO/because you want the day to come sooner/you want to the day to come sooner/when you suddenly score"

Of course, if its a subject is disliked, or frowned upon, then if you simply talk about it, you are pretty much automatically associated with it.

refuse to read a word of anything above until I've drooled my own two penn'th. In terms of talent as a songwriter or front man, I reckon you couldn't get a credit card between em. However, in approch, and "style" (sorry, but that's a word that should always be quoted, in any paragraph containing it and referrences to New Order, other than to Saville) Bernard wins every time. Mozza concocts contrives and prances and poses and IS a character, a larger than life pop icon like so may before, and few since. Bernard's this bloke who walks out on the stage, and what you see and hear, bum notes and mangled words and all, is what you get. New Order are just people who need to make music (one cos if they didn't they'd explode, now cos if they don't they'll make very porr pensioners). Mozza needs to be famous I think ( tho not in the same horrible way as the talentless celebs we all love to hate these days).

And after reading what that greedy fuckbag's doin to him, i must say I feel very sorry for Mozza. What a complete cunt. What'd the leeching bastard play BTW ( I know dick about the smiths except what i see and hear)

I remember reading a 1985 article in Newsweek or Time (lol) about New Order and the Smiths. Moza was bragging how his band did not need keyboards. I thought "only a twat would brag about that."

Morrissey being branded a racist for waving the Union Jack around is asinine political correctness taken to absurd new heights. Ridiculous.

I don't think they like each other. I remember reading Bernard saying he likes the Smiths track 'the Boy with the Thorn in his Side', but that the lyrics were "crap" and calling Morrisey "The Man with a CHip on his Shoulder".

Likewise I read an interview with Morrisey just recently where he said he never liked the melodies or lyrics of their music.

Why do I remember all this crap?! What have they done to my brain?!

craig's digitalwaters wrote: Morrisey never clarified that he was taking the piss with his lyrics

I don't see any ambiguity that requires clarification. The Madstock reaction, like all the racist allegations, were by people who didn't take the time to listen to the lyrics. To hear the line "England for the English" sung in any context is shocking, but the context is clearly not supportive of this point of view. Morrissey likes to shock with his lyrics - hardly front-page news. Girlfriend in a Coma, for example, does it get any more shocking that that?

Morrissey didn't need to clarify that he wasn't a rascist because nobody seriously thought about it and concluded that he was.

Seriously..how can you be a racist AND be into dudes!? It just doesn't make sense?????

I can't see it going more than 5.Barney by 3rd round stoppage...

Boatraceface wrote: I can't see it going more than 5.Barney by 3rd round stoppage...

You might be surprised - Mozzer is a big fan of boxing (another sad git that remembers more interviews he read with pop stars that he should).

Dunno whether he actually trained, although he did put on a bit of muscle a few years into his solo career.

I think technique and strength might clinch it for big Stevie in a Queensberry bout. If street rules applied I reckon our Bernard would be dirty enough to see him score an early knock-out (probably with a hald-empty Perrier bottle on the back of the napper).

You would have to carry poor Mozzer INTO the ring,and train him on steak and raw eggs...Which incidently,if we ar'nt meant to eat meat,will someone kindly tell me why it is the tastiest of all known food??Admitt it Morrissey you only took the match as a route back to bacon sarnies?very clever,he comes up smelling of roses and takes up butchery) I reckon this one's a $5m gate,lets draw up the contracts

Mozza did say he saw JD quite a few times when he was a kid.

Christopher Owens wrote: Mozza did say he saw JD quite a few times when he was a kid.

I bet he had a few lamb dinners as well...gorgeous

rubberlover666 wrote: Seriously..how can you be a racist AND be into dudes!? It just doesn't make sense?????

Seriously..how can you be a racist AND be into dudes!? It just doesn't make sense?????

Self preservation. Many minorities are extremely homophobic. I'd hate races that would want to executte me or give me hormone treatment just because I do not use my wanker in the socially acceptable manner.

BIGINOIL :Morrissey didn't need to clarify that he wasn't a rascist because nobody seriously thought about it and concluded that he was.

I say again; because of the uncertainty some people had about his lyrics the NME asked him whether or not his songs were meant to be ironic. Morrisey refused to answer. Next thing he's on stage poncing around with a Union Jack. These are not the actions of a man wanting to promote racial harmony.

Remember also that this was around the time of the Stephen Lawrence murder and the Derek Beacon election... not a good time to be playing with petrol and matches!

this thread ended up getting very political huh?

It was actually a year before the Steven Lawrence murder.

Anyway, at the time, it was just decided it was time to get old Mozzer. Any excuse would have done. ,

Boatraceface wrote: I can't see it going more than 5.Barney by 3rd round stoppage...

I think Mozza would cheat by shoving a flower in barneys chops, thus distracting him enough to get a left hook in.

Otherwise my moneys on Barney...

Put 'em up

Uncle Liam wrote: It was actually a year before the Steven Lawrence murder.

Anyway, at the time, it was just decided it was time to get old Mozzer. Any excuse would have done. ,

Which to me proves the point that, if you sing about things that have the potential to get people barking up the wrong tree, you should make your standpoint clear; that way you avoid adding to a growing problem (the rise of the BNP in the early 90's) and you could actually help ameliorate the problem.

Barney did explain JD's 'flirtation', Morrisey didn't. I respect Barney, but I no longer respect Morrisey or buy his stuff. If he'd explained himself instead of being a drama queen he wouldn't have ended up damaging himself, which was probably uncessary?

I was at one stage a very big The SMITHS fan and that was before LOWLIFE came into my life....collected many stuffs of theirs (I still have the extremely rare Oz-released gatefold double-LP of THE WORLD WONT LISTEN cuz UK version is single LP) but somehow I lost interest around the time of YOUR ARSENAL which is about the time of the Union Jack/NF fiasco....and BENGALI IN PLATFORM, that lyrics kinda said it all. So I've lost touch with MOZZA's stuffs for quite a while even though I still buy the occasional releases from him, always find them in bargain bins here and usually rather forgettable items. But the recent LIVE AT EARLS COURT was a great return to form and to hear him performing some SMITHS songs was really fantastic. Got the MANCHESTER LIVE DVD too but has yet to watch it, I'm sure it'll be as enjoyable as the CD - Mozza sounds (or moan) a lot more confident today but I think he harped on too much about courts & judges.....thanks to Joyce & Rourke!

craig's digitalwaters wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: It was actually a year before the Steven Lawrence murder.

Anyway, at the time, it was just decided it was time to get old Mozzer. Any excuse would have done. ,

Which to me proves the point that, if you sing about things that have the potential to get people barking up the wrong tree, you should make your standpoint clear; that way you avoid adding to a growing problem (the rise of the BNP in the early 90's) and you could actually help ameliorate the problem.

Barney did explain JD's 'flirtation', Morrisey didn't. I respect Barney, but I no longer respect Morrisey or buy his stuff. If he'd explained himself instead of being a drama queen he wouldn't have ended up damaging himself, which was probably uncessary?

Are you seriously suggesting that Morrissey was in some way responsible for the rise of the BNP or the any other racial incidents?

Not causing them; that is obviously not what i'm saying.

Morrisey, as an important British cultural icon, could have had a small, but important part in helping reduce the rising tensions; he chose not to.

But Morrissey has spoken out about the whole "racist" accusation. I've read it in several interviews. Here's one I've got from Mojo (2001):

Q-What about press in England? It seems like you've really been staunchly opposed to talking to your homies lately.

A-Well, I think it was really a mutual misunderstanding in the early '90s and I'm not sure whether you can ever really go back, because again it was such a great time in the '80s, and then in the early '90s they accused me of everything from extreme racism to other extremes, which has always been absolute crap. And you can't really go cap in hand to people and say, Oh please accept me-I'm not racist really. It just doesn't work. So you have to retain your dignity and step away.

On one hand I sort of admire Morrissey for not dignifying false accusations with a response, but on the other it adds more fuel to the speculative fire. Guess he got stuck.

With Madstock I think he picked the flag up where someone had thrown it on stage, waved it for a second then tossed it back. But someone got pics and it ended up the defining image.

"Come on sweetness! I WAS ONLY JOKING!" (ba dum bump!)

Fin.

Morrissey thrives on the "speculative fire." It's to be expected.

Who cares if barney and mozza dont like each other.

They have both made good music outside of the mainstream,obviously i would never say that the smiths were better than new order,in plain and simple terms they are not!

I never got the smiths the first time round.went to Kardamena (Kos) on holiday in 2000 and ended up in a bar called the stone roses bar every night,they played all sorts of manc and indie bands and i re-discovered the smiths. Suffice to say when i came back i bought a few of their albums!

They had a really good team,mozza on vocals and marr with his superb guitar,but for me there is something missing with the smiths,cant quite put my finger on it.

Back to the topic,mozza doesn't like many people anyway and is the typical miserable north western english git. His lyrics are very similar to jd/no frustration/guilt/urban alienation etc, so i suppose in a way they barney + moz are very similar.

Although i do have to say the the smiths are not A patch on new order,and never will be!

p.s. nice name tho!

craig's digitalwaters wrote: Not causing them; that is obviously not what i'm saying.

Morrisey, as an important British cultural icon, could have had a small, but important part in helping reduce the rising tensions; he chose not to.

If he chose not to, isn't that his right?

Maybe we should stop the discussion here…

Most of us (I believe) like both New Order, The Smiths and all…

We know that we're not racist because we love those bands (despite of the "names" New Order, Joy Division, or songs "National Front…")… we know those peoples are not much racists as us…

Let's talk music…

Mozza, NO & Doves on BBC2 Later with Jools Holland. It's a shame that crap Libertines followed on from Krafty.

Who would be the bottom?