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Do you think Barney is actually a decent writer of lyrics or do you think the good and memorable lines he's come up with over the years were basically a matter of chance? Percentage-wise, do you think the rare lyrics of quality are more luck than real skill? I mean, in 25 years of writing lyrics, don't you think the average person would be able to come up with the amount of good lines that rise above the otherwise laughable pop stuff?
Discuss and be merry.
His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Do you think Barney is actually a decent writer of lyrics or do you think the good and memorable lines he's come up with over the years were basically a matter of chance? Percentage-wise, do you think the rare lyrics of quality are more luck than real skill? I mean, in 25 years of writing lyrics, don't you think the average person would be able to come up with the amount of good lines that rise above the otherwise laughable pop stuff?
Discuss and be merry.
didn't the thread on our favouite lines provide enough evidence to the to contradict your premiss.
I'd rather have Barney singing about his ding-dong and using the time in between songs to inhale grog and slur half-sentences about Morrissey and how minging the crowd is instead of tearing up, wearing doublebreasted suits onstage, and doing the whole "ThisSongIsAboutStarvingChildrenInCostaRica--STOP SMILING!!" post-punk Bongo/Balls Geldoff frontman bit.
Iv'e got a cock it looks like the M1, it'slong and thin, it has a white line down it, it curls around, it curls around , there's crashes on it and service stations too.
Perfect Kiss RFH 1984
Fucking Sublime
The last two posts are wonderful, and I will get them tattooed across my chest instead of the rather more restrained "New Order/Joy Division" one I was going to get done.
Actually, that's not true, but I am going to get a tat: I think I'm losing the plot. Anyone suggest what i should get done? I'm being serious, and I want it quite simple and purist. Like they used to be.
sumner is not the world's greatest lyricist. never has been really. he's gotten away with a few lyrics that really worked, but it's never been because they were deep. the less you can figure out about the meaning, the better, i say. i never really listen to the lyrics throughout the song... i do pick up on lines here and there, but the important part is the vocal melodies. top notch, them, yar.
Maybe his lyrics aren't as witty as the Pet Shop Boys' lyrics, but I like Barney's lyrics...there's just something about it that I like.
I find that Sumner's lyrics really reflect the subconscious mind from real-life experiences. I don't know how else to explain it. Sorry if this confuses any of the NOOL'ers.
it's so odd...there are so few songs of his that actually follow through on any train of thought that I can hang on to.....but it doesn't matter (repeating myself here I know) that man can say more in a couplet than most geat authors can manage in an entire epic.
But remember according to him WE write the lyrics...and he picks them up n his aerial :D
I'd rather listen to Sumner churning out a load of nonsensical tracks than bear through another pop hit single written by the same Swedish writing team for the twentieth year in the row.
Decent songwriter? Yeah. Bestest ever? Not a chance. I don't listen to his lyrics to find greater meaning in life, I identify with them solely on the "that sounds like a good description of what occured at this point of time, I can relate to it" kind of thing.
Especally when he's telling people to piss off, or talking about his long thin dick.
Bout as good as it can get with my clan of relatives, at least. 
No real complaints, and plenty of NO stuff.
How about you, still recovering? :D
in final stages of recovery just now :D
Got me dvdrecorder so i can finally transfer PFD to dvd and avi. sortin out the angels badges probably next week. need a US agent, if yer interested :D
digital mike binoche wrote: Frads , Get a VIKING HELMET tat
You mean a viking On his helemt?
he sits through that and NO should buy him a lifetime free beer voucher.
I've often thought over the years that his 'aerial' really does pick up our 'lyrics'.Well obviously we haven't written them but he picks up on what is happening and has happened in our lives and hits the nail god damn right on the fuckin head!
But he does seem to throw a few different things into one song at times hence there is not always continuity,i agree.
I think that cliche of the monkeys at the typewriters applies to Barney's lyrics. He has wrote some good lines over the years, like those in TPK and This time of night, but Chemical, Slow jam, and Rock the Shack?
Steve Campbell wrote: in final stages of recovery just now :D
Got me dvdrecorder so i can finally transfer PFD to dvd and avi. sortin out the angels badges probably next week. need a US agent, if yer interested :D
Interested. :) You know where to reach me at.
He's no Morrissey, but after all the songs Bernard has written, the man is due credit. The obious weaknesses are the fact that his songs are sometimes vague or do not make many specific references. On the other side, his words have a very genuine and unpretentious character. Basically, he simply writes about subjects that everyone is can relate to in some way.
he's still got it:
"How many times must I lose my way, hey How many words do I have to say, hey What can I do just to make you see That you're so good for a man like A man like me."
brilliant stuff.
Maybe his lyrics aren't as witty as the Pet Shop Boys' lyrics, but I like Barney's lyrics...there's just something about it that I like.
Christ I hope he never writes like the Shirt Lift Boys
Quite a few people i know remarked how much they loved Krafty when it was first released.And these are people who had previously made their disinterest of New Order VERY CLEAR.
The lyrics in the song seemed to strike a chord with them.Yet they had hated New Order before .
I wasn't so impressed at first with the song.But i love the lyrics in the verses now.Not too impressed with the chorus lyrics ,though.
Some people get up at the break of day Gotta go to work before it gets too late Sitting in a car and driving down the road It ain't the way it has to be
But that's what you do to earn your daily wage That's the kind of world that we're living in today Isn't where you wanna be And isn't what you wanna do
Just give me one more day (one more day) Give me another night (just another night) I need a second chance (second chance) This time I'll get it right (This time I'll get it right)
I'll say it one last time (one last time) I've got to let you know (I've got to let you know) I've got to change your mind (I've got to change your mind) I'll never let you go
You've got to look at life the way it oughta be Looking at the stars from underneath the tree There's a world inside and a world out there With that on tv you just don't care
They've got violence, wars and killing too All shrunk down in a two-foot tube But out there the world is a beautiful place With mountains, lakes and the human race And this is where I wanna be And this is what I wanna do
Just give me one more day (one more day) Give me another night (just another night) I need a second chance (second chance) This time I'll get it right (This time I'll get it right)
I'll say it one last time (one last time) I've got to let you know (I've got to let you know) I've got to change your mind (change your mind) I'll never let you go
Just give me one more chance (one more chance) Give me another night (just another night) With just one more day (one more day) Maybe we'll get it right (You know I'll get it right)
I'll say it one last time (one last time) I've got to let you know (I've got to let you know) If I could change your mind (change your mind)
Johnny wrote: the world is a beautiful place With mountains, lakes and the human race
The kind of poetry you'd write at school aged 10.
The BLT lyrics are quality: Whenever I get this way I just don't know what to say- why can't we be ourselves like we were yesterday?
A love song but one with some credibility.
Everytime I think of you I feel shot right through by a bolt of blue
Drugs reference in an idyllic piece of music- as opposed to most songs referring to drugs.
Should have locked him in a cellar (and fed him pins).
A few amusing tales towards the end of this Steven Hague article
digital mike binoche wrote: He was great during the PERNOD YEARS
Uh, he did write "Morning, Night, and Day" for that
I really do think Barney has some talent in getting his feelings and emotions across in lyrics. Chance? Maybe here and there but I do think the guy is capable of some good stuff straight from the heart. Definately!
Just listen to Technique, True Faith, 1963 even BLT. I'm just thinking of the good ones here.
James Thomas wrote: Should have locked him in a cellar (and fed him pins).
A few amusing tales towards the end of this Steven Hague article
Interesting article - thanks! Worth wading through all the techie stuff at the beginning...
and I had to look up 'sibilant'. My ex used to do that - really really annoying! :)
delilah wrote:
James Thomas wrote: Should have locked him in a cellar (and fed him pins).
A few amusing tales towards the end of this Steven Hague article
Interesting article - thanks! Worth wading through all the techie stuff at the beginning...
and I had to look up 'sibilant'. My ex used to do that - really really annoying! :)
Everyone does it, some people have the full on Sylvester the cat thing happening naturally, but anyone miked up wrong will do it....Barney actually suffers it fairly badly...I have a couple of bootlegs where either it's not their engineer, or he's shitfaced, or his De-esser's fooked and he's no spare compressor and EQ to do it the old fashioned way....but all you can hear from Bernard is they horrendous rasping sounds on any sibillant. Barney does however almost always sing slightly accross the mic to avoid plosives (P! s), so he HAS learned something over the years.
"one two one two" is such a stupid thing to check mics with....you'll get a far better idea of a problem before you get the band off their arses, if you say "pants pants testicles testicles soapytitwank" (the last one's just for offense you understand....but it DOES test clarity :D )
Steve Campbell wrote:
delilah wrote:
James Thomas wrote: Should have locked him in a cellar (and fed him pins).
A few amusing tales towards the end of this Steven Hague article
Interesting article - thanks! Worth wading through all the techie stuff at the beginning...
and I had to look up 'sibilant'. My ex used to do that - really really annoying! :)
Everyone does it, some people have the full on Sylvester the cat thing happening naturally, but anyone miked up wrong will do it....Barney actually suffers it fairly badly...I have a couple of bootlegs where either it's not their engineer, or he's shitfaced, or his De-esser's fooked and he's no spare compressor and EQ to do it the old fashioned way....but all you can hear from Bernard is they horrendous rasping sounds on any sibillant. Barney does however almost always sing slightly accross the mic to avoid plosives (P! s), so he HAS learned something over the years.
"one two one two" is such a stupid thing to check mics with....you'll get a far better idea of a problem before you get the band off their arses, if you say "pants pants testicles testicles soapytitwank" (the last one's just for offense you understand....but it DOES test clarity :D )
Well thanks for clearing that one up then, Steve :\ohwell:
He is a legend! End of. There is something in the lyrics that is special. I just know that when i listen to NO, it hits the soul.
I've always been able to relate much more to Barney's lyrics than Ians. Post-Republic they seem to have gone downhill, but on Technique there are some great lines. True Faith sums up my entire attitude towards going out and partying...
digital mike binoche wrote: He was great during the PERNOD YEARS
Not so great during his Prozac period...
Nonetheless, the guy has Godlike Genius (official) so I haven't had reason to complain much down the years (although Dracula's Castle is best forgotten).
Bernards lyrics work well when they take a back seat and dont detract from the music... he has said that was the point of his lyrics for years... but since the Prozac/Electronic period he has fancied himself a songwriter, of which is most certainly not... when the music is gushing, euphoric and wonderful then a few offhand remarks make it all the more so... but offhand remarks dont make a novel and unfortunately he has tried to bend what little talent he has in that area a little too far in recent years...
I think its a combination of the music being less wonderful and his lyrics being more worked over and labored... the combo hasnt been a terribly successful one of late...
Ajw
oh dear god, he's back.....
p.s. yeah, i agree actually... i think he puts too much sober thought into the lyrics since 1993....
they were much better when they came from the air into his trippy antennaes in the 80s....
AJ Wells wrote: Bernards lyrics work well when they take a back seat and dont detract from the music... he has said that was the point of his lyrics for years... but since the Prozac/Electronic period he has fancied himself a songwriter, of which is most certainly not... when the music is gushing, euphoric and wonderful then a few offhand remarks make it all the more so... but offhand remarks dont make a novel and unfortunately he has tried to bend what little talent he has in that area a little too far in recent years...
I think its a combination of the music being less wonderful and his lyrics being more worked over and labored... the combo hasnt been a terribly successful one of late...
Ajw
seriously are you just trying to piss us off?
Hey kids its nice to be remembered in such warm ways... I did take leave of opining some time ago, but its so hard to give up isnt it? Anyone reading this has nothing better to do either...
For those who dont know, I'm an ancient relic who grew up with the band and has forgotten more little tidits and juicy factory lore than most of you will ever know... for those unfamiliar, years of my wisdom is available via a goognews search under ajwells and assorted headings... and as luck would have it, I havent yet gotten a life even at the ripe age of 44 as I still want to believe that this band has some interesting work in front of them... although as time ticks off I realize that is primarily wishful thinking on my part... but isnt the essence of being a popfan being a wishful thinker?
For those who think I post out of spite or hate, leave that at the door... I have enjoyed the company of the band over the years and their best moments have been many of mine... I return from time to time out of hope, not hate, and I do sincerely hope that some of the music for Control lives up to my idea of what this band could be... which is all that any of us ask isnt it? The problem is many popfans is that they just dont ask enough from their experiences... and so they wind up getting exactly that... the only reason that we have to put up with something like WFTSC is that we put up with it... but we can ask for and hopefully get more out of our listening experiences... but we have to learn how to ask properly first...
Ajw
Barney's lyrics are 80% great and 20% clangersville; His clangers clang more than the average writer, but his great bits are greater than those who would have us believe what greatness really is...
AJ Wells wrote: but we can ask for and hopefully get more out of our listening experiences... but we have to learn how to ask properly first...
Ajw
So should we be sending the bands management emails asking for a bit better next time round?
Wasim wrote:
AJ Wells wrote: but we can ask for and hopefully get more out of our listening experiences... but we have to learn how to ask properly first...
Ajw
So should we be sending the bands management emails asking for a bit better next time round?
No just ignore what they do if its not up to par, enjoy music that is out there that IS touched by the thing that you may have liked about NO in the past and see if they come around... its amazing what being booed and then ignored can do for a band... they were booed off the stage supporting the Buzzcocks and then recorded Atmosphere... perhaps a little less respect would make them raise their game a bit... or maybe not
Ajw
