are new order a gay band?
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ok i'll give this a serious answer, although i'm tempted to just say f o. New Order are not gay. they are all into women and married with children. half of New Order used to be a couple (Gillian and Steve).
they do however make dance music with wide appeal, including in the gay community, well some of it anyway.
New Order are a band who appeal to gay, straight and bisexual people.
They are all in straight relationships, but some members of NO may have had non-straight experiences... as have a lot of other people...
+Who is 'squiggle'? Someone already registered under a different name or genuinely a newbie- If so it would be interesting to know if some of the behind closed doors stuff makes you uncomfortable?
squiggly wrote: ???
He's lit the touchpaper and bolted methinks 
This topic's been gone over so much in the past there's no point in replying really!
some members of NO may have had non-straight experiences... as have a lot of other people...
WHich one?Bernard,Peter or Stephen???
she's off! Mrs.Disco wrote:
some members of NO may have had non-straight experiences... as have a lot of other people...
WHich one?Bernard,Peter or Stephen???
Well obviously its 
(cue: a team of lawyers dragging me off into the sunset)
"You're into.....Gay Disco", so said Rob Gretton in 1984, and he was right. None of the band members are gay, if that's what the question was aimed at, but they undoubtedly like the "gay culture" particularly the music scene, and why shouldn't they?
ShedSisterFay wrote: NO gay band - definitely not. Even Judy Garland had a "gay" following.
Judy Garland had a gay following?! 
Well, I never.
Bernard's the gay one, isn't he?! Or Hooky perhaps, he likes to keep trim. Or Steve cos he, er, drives a tank. Ooh, what's the answer, please.
Or maybe it was Curtis?! Nice little line in the Sopranos from the (closet) Vito when Gene hung himself. "Perhaps he killed himself cos he was gay ... and had no-one to talk to?"
Theyre just a band arent they-surely gay people like all kinds of music the same as straight people.
NO - massively influenced by Patrick Cowley, Bobby O, Moroder, and Italo Disco - all staples of early 80s gay disco.
Mrs.Disco wrote: I don´t think new Order is a gay band neither Bernard,Peter or Stephen...
But Phil and Gillian u aint too sure of?
:D
Mrs.Disco wrote:
some members of NO may have had non-straight experiences... as have a lot of other people...
WHich one?Bernard,Peter or Stephen???
Gilian, of course!
Obviously none of NO are gay, but are into the gay scene (as someone else said, why not? They do have good taste in music) TPK was about AIDS in the gay community (I think!) and of course their dance beats would appeal to the gay community as well as many others. Next question.
If they were, would it make any difference at all to the enjoyment of the music? Surely the themes present in the lyrics would still be as universal as ever? 
All the twittering over their (or rather, Bernard's) dubious nature (remember the furor over Electronic's member makeup and Ol' Neil joining on for a song? Good grief!) was really pointless at the end of the day.
No one cares. We come for the music, not for the tabloids. Give us albums not sexual scrutiny. That's all.
Al Jarvis wrote:
ShedSisterFay wrote: NO gay band - definitely not. Even Judy Garland had a "gay" following.
Judy Garland had a gay following?!
Well, I never.
Bernard's the gay one, isn't he?! Or Hooky perhaps, he likes to keep trim. Or Steve cos he, er, drives a tank. Ooh, what's the answer, please.
Or maybe it was Curtis?! Nice little line in the Sopranos from the (closet) Vito when Gene hung himself. "Perhaps he killed himself cos he was gay ... and had no-one to talk to?"
I'm shocked that Harvey Keitel had a gay following. He said that in his monologue while hosting Saturday Night Live? 
Is he joking? BTW, he wasn't funny on the show.
can't people i am dignifying this post with a response
yah so i'm queer. i like new order, mode and psb. i also like pearl jam, nine inch nails and ministry.
new order cater to many demographics, but if we had to, we would classify them under alternative, and since being gay is 'still' seen as being an alternative community, shouldn't only us homos like new order?
discuss
I have to concure with the majority opinion...
Their own sexuality (which is no one's business besides their own) and what sexuality their music appeals to is irrelevant to my enjoyment of their music. Period.
I also agree that their sexual orientation is irrelevant. It's all about the music!
I think we've all wasted anough time on this thread...
A question like this probably has more relevance in the States.
New Order, at their zenith, circa 1990, had a gay following and THAT was probably because 1) thier music rules and 2) those gay producers of the 70s & 80s that appealed to New Order, ALSO appealed to gay people who listened to ALL of that music.
Some of you need a 10mg Xanax, ffs.
FtotheDoubleOff: I've attended many philosophical/critical thinking (if I can borrow from your slang) lectures thank you.
If you can't see the irony or sarcasm in my post... perhaps this post is perfect for you to display your idiosyncrasies. Ever heard of playing the devil's advocate for the sake of argument? Chill out bro.
MTO is totally on the ball as per usual. Richard Morel is queer. Blue Monday is fashioned using the bassline of Donna Summer's "I feel love" which to this day remains an anthem for all floors, but got it's start on queer ground.
Really, kids. We love dance music, we always have. We christianed disco music so the mainstream can enjoy it.
Dance music is liberating, as it should be.
My edit was done in light of trying to be as pc as possible when using a term to best describe a homosexual. So "queer" it is.
Of course they are gay, silly. So is everyone who is registered on NOOL. Don't you remember providing your card number when you joined?
no... i think the gay band you are thinking of is Depeche Mode.
Depeche Mode is a different band from New Order. New order is a dork band.
pumped full of drugs wrote: no... i think the gay band you are thinking of is Depeche Mode.
Depeche Mode is a different band from New Order. New order is a dork band.
LIke NO, DM are gay, too. NO is gay in a dorky way.
NOOLigan wrote: half of New Order used to be a couple (Gillian and Steve).
I'm probably way behind the times with this question... but are Gillian and Steve no longer a couple?
Adam Santangelo wrote:
NOOLigan wrote: half of New Order used to be a couple (Gillian and Steve).
I'm probably way behind the times with this question... but are Gillian and Steve no longer a couple?
as far as i know they are still happily married. gillian is no longer active in the band, as family comes first.
edit: she is credited as gillian moris in the hacienda classics set, it would seem they are still very much together.
My college classmates would think so. That's because they don't understand good British music, particularly Madchester. I hate ignorance.
Of course they are! they're gayer than Larry Grayson, Danny La Rue, Charles Hawtrey, Morrissey, Graham Norton, Michael Barrymore, Liberace, Freddie and George all rolled together. 
Swifty wrote: Well, they are English - the stereotypes are pretty similar!
There speaks a man who does'nt know his English from his French:p
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Of course they are! they're gayer than Larry Grayson, Danny La Rue, Charles Hawtrey, Morrissey, Graham Norton, Michael Barrymore, Liberace, Freddie and George all rolled together.
Liberace was gay???!!
FAC 51 wrote:
By 'Eck! My Neck! wrote: Of course they are! they're gayer than Larry Grayson, Danny La Rue, Charles Hawtrey, Morrissey, Graham Norton, Michael Barrymore, Liberace, Freddie and George all rolled together.
Liberace was gay???!!
Yes, he was.
NOOLigan wrote: as far as i know they are still happily married. gillian is no longer active in the band, as family comes first.
edit: she is credited as gillian moris in the hacienda classics set, it would seem they are still very much together.
Thanks, NOOLigan. That's what I thought. Just wondering whether there was some other story to be told.
mysilentface wrote: FtotheDoubleOff: I've attended many philosophical/critical thinking (if I can borrow from your slang) lectures thank you.
If you can't see the irony or sarcasm in my post... perhaps this post is perfect for you to display your idiosyncrasies. Ever heard of playing the devil's advocate for the sake of argument? Chill out bro.
MTO is totally on the ball as per usual. Richard Morel is queer. Blue Monday is fashioned using the bassline of Donna Summer's "I feel love" which to this day remains an anthem for all floors, but got it's start on queer ground.
Really, kids. We love dance music, we always have. We christianed disco music so the mainstream can enjoy it.
Dance music is liberating, as it should be.
My edit was done in light of trying to be as pc as possible when using a term to best describe a homosexual. So "queer" it is.
I thought youre 'alternative' joke was kinda funny myself, bro....fact is this subject has been run into the ground in this forum, and the straight kids have yet to get it. Their defenses go up so quick, that it gets funny to me. I've tried in the past to explain what NewOrder music has meant to gay club dj's, which is at the core of what this thread is about....but they dont listen, they just come up with silly threatds like this so they can re-affirm thier straightness...not that there's anything wrong with that.
They're not a gay band per se - i.e. they're not gay and neither are they catered towards any specific sexualities.
BUT...
Listening to their lyrics, there ARE quite a few hints of..... maybe bisexuality? I mean.... since they're all married. I've always gotten that feeling listening to NO over the years. One song would be "The Perfect Kiss".
But of course, I might just have been interpreting the lyrics wrongly.
if you are the listener and you are gay then you are gay listening to good music.ive never seen new order as a gay band but ive seen new order as a band with a sizable gay following.
Well I was convinced Barney was gay after I heard 1963 the first time and I asked me mum if he was gay and she said: "Possibly, I don't actually know who Bernard Sumner is, but there you go."
1963 is sung from the viewpoint of John F Keneedies wife, so it's not really anything to do with homosexuality. The whole song is basically a joke conspiracy theory.
Barney has 2 sons, and a family (so i guess he's married). This was stated in one of the articles on here (I think it's the beef curry with barney one). Stepehen is obviously married to Giliam nad they have children (one of which is very ill, which is why Giliam had to leave teh band). I don't know about Hooky, but to be honest I couldn't care less.
EDIT - actually Hooky has 3 children nad he was married to Mrs Merton - from the Liverpool Echo article posted here.
Nicky wrote: Well I was convinced Barney was gay after I heard 1963 the first time and I asked me mum if he was gay and she said: "Possibly, I don't actually know who Bernard Sumner is, but there you go."
my theory is that it is about two brothers. it always was. if you'd have a brother like mine you'd understand.
Nicky wrote: Well I was convinced Barney was gay after I heard 1963 the first time and I asked me mum if he was gay and she said: "Possibly, I don't actually know who Bernard Sumner is, but there you go."
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..."
After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member. 
Sorry BS, maybe I was wrong treating you that way
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
seehttp://neworderonline.com/Music/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=237leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed. 
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
Julio wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed.
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
What I meant was, he wasn't born in JANUARY. "It was January, 1963, when Johnny came home with a gift for me." I'm not denying that he was born in '63. I'm just saying, he wasn't born in January.
leather_girl wrote:
Julio wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed.
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
What I meant was, he wasn't born in JANUARY. "It was January, 1963, when Johnny came home with a gift for me." I'm not denying that he was born in '63. I'm just saying, he wasn't born in January.
Yeah, but Bernard was born in January. It's a combination of the two lover's birthdays! lol. yeah, i know, sorry, I'm being childish.
Nicky wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Julio wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed.
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
What I meant was, he wasn't born in JANUARY. "It was January, 1963, when Johnny came home with a gift for me." I'm not denying that he was born in '63. I'm just saying, he wasn't born in January.
Yeah, but Bernard was born in January. It's a combination of the two lover's birthdays! lol. yeah, i know, sorry, I'm being childish.
Bernard is married to one of the women from the Round and round video. Personnaly I think it's this one (I found it on P Savilles website)
Imagination Overload!
They might have been surrounded by gay people but they all have "straight" goals to where they are going in life
sorry!
Retroesque wrote:
Nicky wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Julio wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed.
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
What I meant was, he wasn't born in JANUARY. "It was January, 1963, when Johnny came home with a gift for me." I'm not denying that he was born in '63. I'm just saying, he wasn't born in January.
Yeah, but Bernard was born in January. It's a combination of the two lover's birthdays! lol. yeah, i know, sorry, I'm being childish.
Bernard is married to one of the women from the Round and round video. Personnaly I think it's this one (I found it on P Savilles website)
It's a bloody MYTH people 
"gay" is an unwieldy qualifier. Gays from Cole Porter to Bob Crewe (produced Frankie Valli) to any number of disco folks (the fellow who invented The Village People-HELLO)have been making music forever. They were gay people making music-like anyone else might from their own situations and experiences. They were musicians and producers who happend to be gay.
The idea is more of an aestetic that influences others to explore because it is good music. Ya see it all the time, influences from various sub-cultures being taken to the mainstream...
from Cole Porter being sung by Frank Sinatra and Ellla Fitzgerald to Johnny Mathis. Rob Halford taking his appreciation of leather culture and making it a hypermasculine image for Judas Preist that influences the hyper macho world of heavy metal.
The guys from New Order have said that one of the first times that inspired them after the death of Ian Curtis was a visit with a gay friend to a gay disco in Manchester. I chuckle at the image, 3 very straight men in this gay club. But the NO hguys said it was music unlike they had ever heard. They had been listening to Kraftwerk in Joy Division and this night prolly put them over tthe top onto the path that would make them New Order. They took music that inspired them and pushed the boundaries. almost 30 years later we listen and are inspired by them. Who Cares where it came from, music just rocks if ya love it.
Patrick Tardif wrote: Imagination Overload!
They might have been surrounded by gay people but they all have "straight" goals to where they are going in life
sorry!
hmmm....straight goals and gay goals............this sounds like something right out of the mouth of pat robertson or GWBush or jerry falwell..
THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.
PERIOD.
I AGREE WITH THE OTHERS. KILL THIS THREAD.
why bother? a couple of interesting facts have come up although other than that I'm just suprised anyone really has that much to say about it. Yawn.
LOL teory about Bernard and Johnny! You never know I guess! I doubt it - but they are funny coincidences!
Sheds on a Plane wrote:
Retroesque wrote:
Nicky wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
Julio wrote:
leather_girl wrote:
1963 - "Johnny, don't point that gun at me..." After forming Electronic with Johnny Marr in 1989 I thought Barney had an affair with him when he was still a The Smiths' member.
But Johnny Marr wasn't even born in January 1963. I think this song can mean anything to anyone. I think it's about a gay love affair gone horribly wrong. That's just the picture I have in my head about the song. But if somebody else wants to think about it as a song about JFK, or about Johnny Marr, or about a straight love affair, then that's fine to me as well.
Sorry, but you're wrong. He was born in 1963 indeed.
BIRTH PLACE/DATE Manchester, October 31st 1963 BIRTHSIGN Scorpio SIBLINGS Claire, Ian HEIGHT 5ft8ins WEIGHT 8 1/2 stone EYES Brown HAIR Black
What I meant was, he wasn't born in JANUARY. "It was January, 1963, when Johnny came home with a gift for me." I'm not denying that he was born in '63. I'm just saying, he wasn't born in January.
Yeah, but Bernard was born in January. It's a combination of the two lover's birthdays! lol. yeah, i know, sorry, I'm being childish.
Bernard is married to one of the women from the Round and round video. Personnaly I think it's this one (I found it on P Savilles website)
It's a bloody MYTH people
er barney married that chick in the pic??? someone dig out them pics of barneys missus that was on ere a while back. gAY more like fucking mental.
read above. it is a wrong rumour. this is Patti. if anything it was the blond chick, but it isn't true.
Will someone please heed NOOLigan's words: Lock the thread. We can't stand this insanity. This is a very stupid first thread for someone to start.
[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Will someone please heed NOOLigan's words: Lock the thread. We can't stand this insanity. This is a very stupid first thread for someone to start.
blah blah blah...
[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Will someone please heed NOOLigan's words: Lock the thread. We can't stand this insanity. This is a very stupid first thread for someone to start.
No it isn't, there has been quite a lot of interesting discussion on here. Of course you will always get the complete moron who misses the point totally, those who feel threatened by the mere mention of the word "gay" and seem to take it as a personal insult that a band they like can be mentioned in the same breath as the word "gay", but for all of those muppets there are some valid viewpoints and perceptions here.
One thing is for certain, no matter where anyone stands on their interpretation of the question. Gay disco culture has had a considerable influence on the music made by New Order, and continues to do so.
oldmonkey wrote:
[magenta]shedmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Will someone please heed NOOLigan's words: Lock the thread. We can't stand this insanity. This is a very stupid first thread for someone to start.
No it isn't, there has been quite a lot of interesting discussion on here. Of course you will always get the complete moron who misses the point totally, those who feel threatened by the mere mention of the word "gay" and seem to take it as a personal insult that a band they like can be mentioned in the same breath as the word "gay", but for all of those muppets there are some valid viewpoints and perceptions here.
One thing is for certain, no matter where anyone stands on their interpretation of the question. Gay disco culture has had a considerable influence on the music made by New Order, and continues to do so.
I'm surprised that this thread has stayed so high up the list for this long, but there is certainly no reason for it to be locked!
OK, I stand corrected. Yes, they are well received in the gay community. On the other hand, my Southern counterparts who don't understand their music will label them as such.
I'm in the country, in the middle of nowhere, as an outsider. The South really couldn't understand their music. :\ohwell:
Patrick Tardif wrote: Please someone...destroy this stupid thread.....
pointless!!!
Why, Patrick?
A few people seem very touchy about this - feel threatened guys about having a band you like be possibly construed as a bunch of poofs? Does it make you feel that people will think you are less of a man for liking them?
oldmonkey wrote: A few people seem very touchy about this - feel threatened guys about having a band you like be possibly construed as a bunch of poofs? Does it make you feel that people will think you are less of a man for liking them?
Exactly the opposite actually. They can be straight, gay or bisexual for all anyone cares, it's such a non-issue that it's amazing that people need to discuss this. Whatever their sexual orientation might be doesn't change the music one bit.
I think it's very interesting...
If you want to justify it from an issue point of view (rather than whether or not one member may be bisexual and whether this matters); I've noticed that a lot of NO song's are genderless when talking about relationships, an interesting and almost unique approach to songwriting...
Touched wrote:
oldmonkey wrote: A few people seem very touchy about this - feel threatened guys about having a band you like be possibly construed as a bunch of poofs? Does it make you feel that people will think you are less of a man for liking them?
Exactly the opposite actually. They can be straight, gay or bisexual for all anyone cares, it's such a non-issue that it's amazing that people need to discuss this. Whatever their sexual orientation might be doesn't change the music one bit.
indeed.
nah... New Order members are way too normal and bland to be gay icons.
people forget that the average "straight" band in the 80s didn't even appear in public without a couple hours with their stylists' doing their hair and makeup and clothes... New Order was like, so, drab...
I think people mean gay as in gay friendly. I think the music has a big gay following and thats fine. As for locking the thread, you can if you like, but noones getting offended here (how can you call the band gay themselves when half of the band is a couple and the others son posts here) - but I found the speculation about Bernarde and Johnny Marr re 1963 a bit of a laugh, I didnt take it seriously.
pumped full of drugs wrote: nah... New Order members are way too normal and bland to be gay icons.
people forget that the average "straight" band in the 80s didn't even appear in public without a couple hours with their stylists' doing their hair and makeup and clothes... New Order was like, so, drab...
as a guy who grew up exposed to pop metal from that era..I concur....
I often wondered what was the bigger addiction, cocaine or AquaNet hair spray?
