"Still" - exorcism, cashing-in or clearout?

So why was Still cobbled together in 1981?

There's been a lot said and written over the years as to the nature of this curious product, not least about its name.

By early 1981, the proliferation of European bootleggers (as evidenced in Clinton Heylin’s definitive work on the subject “Bootleg”) had moved firmly into Joy Division territory as a band who sold well on 12” vinyl. So much had been left unfinished by Ian Curtis’s suicide, and the handful of good-quality audience recordings that had been made of the band were in considerable demand. The artistic nature of Closer’s sleeve and the circumstances surrounding the band lent themselves to a whole host of European bootleg releases, “Le Terme” and “Gruftgesagene” being the two main offerings that were considered essential for any Joy Division fan.

It has been argued that “Still” was the antithesis of “Movement”, New Order’s first album. However, it is also worth considering that bootleggers of the illicit spirits variety use a still to produce their own individual brand of firewater, so maybe the name comes from the fact that this was designed to be Factory’s very own bootleg. Complete with badly-edited tracks and incorrect track listing, “Still” contains a mixture of live and studio recordings hitherto unavailable, all of which are typical of the type of bootleg album that was selling well at the time.

Of the tracks themselves, the studio versions represent a partial clearance of the back catalogue, with the Unknown Pleasures out-takes not subsequently released on other labels, and a reprise for Glass for some reason, plus the Dead Souls half of Sordide and three hitherto unavailable tracks from other studio time, Something Must Break, The Sound Of Music and Ice Age (though obviously people who recorded Peel sessions already had a different recording of The Sound Of Music). For me, getting hold of studio versions of these songs was a real revelation, I’d heard them all on live/session recordings by that stage, besides The Kill, and it was and still is refreshing to hear these songs that weren’t deemed polished enough for the albums/singles that they could have been included on. It was also interesting (if slightly incongruous) to hear a better quality Sister Ray from the Moonlight, as the live version that had been doing the rounds for a year or so was too fast and not as good quality.

I was fortunate in that I already had a full version of the Birmingham gig that constituted sides 3 and 4 of Still, albeit an inferior sounding one, so nothing on the latter sides was actually that new. My old version of Ceremony was the full track rather than the edited version (allegedly at Tony Wilson’s insistence, as he wanted the product to be as rough and ready as a bootleg, such as the Amsterdam Paradiso recording that chopped Passover in half), and the amount of post-production that had taken place on the Still version of the gig was interesting, to say the least. Sure there were still mistakes left in, but some of the delays between songs, a couple of comments and a few bum notes had been removed. The full audience recording is now in fairly wide circulation I think.

So why was it all put together in the first place? As a marketing precursor for the forthcoming New Order album, a reminder of what Joy Division had been? As a purge of the back catalogue and an attempt to get one over on the bootleggers who were making a mint out of odds and sods? An exorcism of the myths that had begun on Ian’s death? Whichever of these was Factory’s prime motivational force, I’m glad they bothered, as the contents of the first two sides offer an additional and enriching perspective.

I'd say they did it for;

a/ The money.

b/ To ensure that the fans got hold of a genuine product of rarities.

c/ To try and thwart some of the bootleggers.

It's a fantastic, although slightly disjointed collection of stuff!

i don't care why. i'm just glad they did it.

As exorcism and/or clear-out it fails in the sense of not being the best/complete, but as OM said, Wilson may have delierately wanted something like that... I've never been a huge fan of live stuff, so the second half of Still has remained unplayed for a while here... In fact on iTunes/iPod now Still is represented only by tracks 1-9 now... (No Sister Ray)... And those tracks stand up fairly well for me as a unit, obviously not as strong as UP or Closer but still (!) evidence of how powerful the band's 'second-string' was... I always like the idea that something essentially so scrappy and of such average quality was so lavishly packaged...

SHEDi xxx

Who really cares why,its a marvellous album.

Still was a neccessity for all the above reasons, if kinda sloppy. How much, if much at all, was done to the tracks on Still after the fact to clean up, finish, or edit these tracks? Did Hannent have much of a say on the "finished product"?

How much was done to the live "Ceremony" to make it sound like a complete song? Was the recording flawed or the band screwup or something?

pumped full of drugs wrote: Still was a neccessity for all the above reasons, if kinda sloppy. How much, if much at all, was done to the tracks on Still after the fact to clean up, finish, or edit these tracks? Did Hannent have much of a say on the "finished product"?

How much was done to the live "Ceremony" to make it sound like a complete song? Was the recording flawed or the band screwup or something?

It was a complete song at the gig, started with the familiar bassline. Tony Wilson insisted on cutting the first two minutes from it on Still to make it sound like a bootleg!

The song was not without problems though, Ian's microphone was not plugged in at the start, if you listen closely you can hear him singing without the mic (i.e it is picked up by one of the amp mics). A roadie plugged it in just before the second chorus!

It's a great record - offering a different side to JD than the icy perfection of Closer. I reckon there was a bit of a myth-busting agenda, but of course whatever Wilson et al say, it's probably simply that old record company ploy of a cash-in job. The live gig is pretty clean compared to most boots and doesn't capture what it was really like to see them. Les Bains Douche or Preston do a pretty good job of that though for those who weren't around. I've always thought that the synth sounds pretty out of tune on Decades and Isolation. What does it sound like on the audience tape (I've never heard it)? A member of the band once told me something about a stretched tape, which makes no sense as everything would go out of tune. Unless - if you think about it it would be much more noticeable with the synths which are playing chord 'sheets' during Decades - with a staccato bass which would hardly affected.

Loved the tracks on it when i fist played them.I had never heard them before as i only got into JD in about 84.I had purchased Closer and Unknown Pleasures and this completed the JD album set for me.

Still love the fast,jagged sounds on a lot of the tracks.The live Birmingham gig is great (although Decades sounds decidely wobbly )

Erm ,sorry why was it released then? dunno.I just like it

Wouldn't you be better off asking the question on JD Central?

im not too bothered as to why it was released but im sure glad it was.

Something Must Break and Ice Age are two of my favourite JD songs, and i love the live versions of Isolation and Decades

DC wrote: It's a great record - offering a different side to JD than the icy perfection of Closer. I reckon there was a bit of a myth-busting agenda, but of course whatever Wilson et al say, it's probably simply that old record company ploy of a cash-in job. The live gig is pretty clean compared to most boots and doesn't capture what it was really like to see them. Les Bains Douche or Preston do a pretty good job of that though for those who weren't around. I've always thought that the synth sounds pretty out of tune on Decades and Isolation. What does it sound like on the audience tape (I've never heard it)? A member of the band once told me something about a stretched tape, which makes no sense as everything would go out of tune. Unless - if you think about it it would be much more noticeable with the synths which are playing chord 'sheets' during Decades - with a staccato bass which would hardly affected.

It's just as bad on the audience tape! There are two schools of thought as to why it sounded so out of tune - the Morley bullshitesque version heavily concealed in An Ideal For Living, which alleges that the pure-set was deliberately detuned to add to the spectacle of Curtis's dancing, so as to create some kind of trance-enducing state; the second, which is far more plausible and just downright sensible, is that Bernard had accidentally altered the sound in some way!

Audience recording on its way to Twickenham!

Exorcism, cashing-in and clearout.

oldmonkey wrote:

It was a complete song at the gig, started with the familiar bassline. Tony Wilson insisted on cutting the first two minutes from it on Still to make it sound like a bootleg!

The song was not without problems though, Ian's microphone was not plugged in at the start, if you listen closely you can hear him singing without the mic (i.e it is picked up by one of the amp mics). A roadie plugged it in just before the second chorus!

You've got to be kidding?! I'd never heard that....so Wilson really is a f***wit then. Its always been a great shame to me that there is no good live performance of Decades from Joy Division - when New Order played it at RFH in 84 it was really very powerful as a live song. Maybe if they'd played Atmosphere a bit less and the latter songs of Closer a bit more in the last ten years or so they'd have done themselves a real favour.

I think Still was probably released for commercial reasons - maybe they thought the Joy Division 'thing' wasn't going to last and maybe they were unsure of New Order's prognosis too and that's what prompted it. That's just a guess mind you....

perhaps the title gives some perspective?

i've always thought of it as 'hello? joy division are still here!' so perhaps it was released to make money, as it was a greatest hits + live collection. of course there were bootlegs around which they could have remastered as 'live' albums, but i'm sure factory (e.g. wilson) wanted to make some money off the JD name by making a more 'definitive' collection before new order took off.

I think the desire of the fans informed Factory they would be stupid business-wise not to release a genuine product that would look so remote it would feel like a collector's item even though it was an official compilation. For me, Still can be a trial to listen to. Synths can be detuned and I think it's what happened on "Decades". "Isolation" is pretty good though, in my estimation. It's frustrating that "24 Hours" was left off the CD. Tim, is that version any good? Does it have Bernard's appreggios at the end as they appear on Closer?

oldmonkey wrote: So why was Still cobbled together in 1981?There's been a lot said and written over the years as to the nature of this curious product, not least about its name.

and the handful of good-quality audience recordings that had been made of the band were in considerable demand. The artistic nature of Closer’s sleeve and the circumstances surrounding the band lent themselves to a whole host of European bootleg releases, “Le Terme” and “Gruftgesagene” being the two main offerings that were considered essential for any Joy Division fan.

Complete with badly-edited tracks and incorrect track listing, “Still” contains a mixture of live and studio recordings hitherto unavailable, all of which are typical of the type of bootleg album that was selling well at the time.

Birmingham gig that constituted sides 3 and 4 of Still,/ the Amsterdam Paradiso recording / So why was it all put together in the first place /the back catalogue and an attempt to get one over on the bootleggers who were making a mint out of odds and sods?.

excellent thread here. As much as it's great to accept anything plainly at face value.. The possible options. So value this collection for the raw beauty that includes the mix of Unknown Pleasure recordings for this is the time before they were yet confidently Joy Division and the urgency just crashed through. beautifully. Sister Ray. Having the studio and Live takes included gives a complete picture of what the times must have/ may have been like. I wasn't there. Tim sorry to edit down your original post.. Why was it published - Think a combination of everything that has been mentioned + to give a more official closure for everybody to hold onto. Do enjoy the almost Sarcasm of it's Title, without any bitterness, just FAC(40).

JV wrote: I think the desire of the fans informed Factory they would be stupid business-wise not to release a genuine product that would look so remote it would feel like a collector's item even though it was an official compilation. For me, Still can be a trial to listen to. Synths can be detuned and I think it's what happened on "Decades". "Isolation" is pretty good though, in my estimation. It's frustrating that "24 Hours" was left off the CD. Tim, is that version any good? Does it have Bernard's appreggios at the end as they appear on Closer?

24 Hours was the standard live version, arpeggios replaced by muted crashing chords (if such a thing can exist!).

Bit of a Factory fuck-uo though (now there's a first!) - they omitted the track from the tracklisting of the vinyl release, even though the track was featured on the record. Then they forgot about this tracklisting omission when the master was cut to CD, and so 24 Hours disappeared from the product!

I'll post an MP3 of 24 Hours shortly, as well as the full Ceremony. Both from the audience recording.

oldmonkey wrote:

I'll post an MP3 of 24 Hours shortly, as well as the full Ceremony. Both from the audience recording.

That'd be great! Thanks!

SHEDi xxx

oldmonkey wrote:

DC wrote: It's a great record - offering a different side to JD than the icy perfection of Closer. I reckon there was a bit of a myth-busting agenda, but of course whatever Wilson et al say, it's probably simply that old record company ploy of a cash-in job. The live gig is pretty clean compared to most boots and doesn't capture what it was really like to see them. Les Bains Douche or Preston do a pretty good job of that though for those who weren't around. I've always thought that the synth sounds pretty out of tune on Decades and Isolation. What does it sound like on the audience tape (I've never heard it)? A member of the band once told me something about a stretched tape, which makes no sense as everything would go out of tune. Unless - if you think about it it would be much more noticeable with the synths which are playing chord 'sheets' during Decades - with a staccato bass which would hardly affected.

It's just as bad on the audience tape! There are two schools of thought as to why it sounded so out of tune - the Morley bullshitesque version heavily concealed in An Ideal For Living, which alleges that the pure-set was deliberately detuned to add to the spectacle of Curtis's dancing, so as to create some kind of trance-enducing state; the second, which is far more plausible and just downright sensible, is that Bernard had accidentally altered the sound in some way!

Audience recording on its way to Twickenham!

Magic. I owe you many beers.

oldmonkey wrote:

pumped full of drugs wrote: Still was a neccessity for all the above reasons, if kinda sloppy. How much, if much at all, was done to the tracks on Still after the fact to clean up, finish, or edit these tracks? Did Hannent have much of a say on the "finished product"?

How much was done to the live "Ceremony" to make it sound like a complete song? Was the recording flawed or the band screwup or something?

It was a complete song at the gig, started with the familiar bassline. Tony Wilson insisted on cutting the first two minutes from it on Still to make it sound like a bootleg!

The song was not without problems though, Ian's microphone was not plugged in at the start, if you listen closely you can hear him singing without the mic (i.e it is picked up by one of the amp mics). A roadie plugged it in just before the second chorus!

I'm sure that's bollocks - if a complete version of Ceremony existed it would surely have found its way out by now. Much more likely that whoever was recording the gig simply forgot to press record till after the song had started (just like the Paradiso gig). The wobbly Isolation/Decades keyboard sound can be produced simply by turning the chorus pedal up too much. 24 Hours was probably omitted from the listing on the record sleeve as it would have made the design asymmetrical - 5 tracks for sides 1,2 and 4 and 6 for side 3 - sounds stupid but the aesthetic considerations always came high on Factory's agenda. It's missing from the cd because it would have taken the cd over 80 minutes in length.

Philip Collins wrote:

I'm sure that's bollocks - if a complete version of Ceremony existed it would surely have found its way out by now. Much more likely that whoever was recording the gig simply forgot to press record till after the song had started (just like the Paradiso gig).

Came from Wilson himself, so yes it probably was bollocks, more myth-making by the original king of spin!

Philip Collins wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

pumped full of drugs wrote: Still was a neccessity for all the above reasons, if kinda sloppy. How much, if much at all, was done to the tracks on Still after the fact to clean up, finish, or edit these tracks? Did Hannent have much of a say on the "finished product"?

How much was done to the live "Ceremony" to make it sound like a complete song? Was the recording flawed or the band screwup or something?

It was a complete song at the gig, started with the familiar bassline. Tony Wilson insisted on cutting the first two minutes from it on Still to make it sound like a bootleg!

The song was not without problems though, Ian's microphone was not plugged in at the start, if you listen closely you can hear him singing without the mic (i.e it is picked up by one of the amp mics). A roadie plugged it in just before the second chorus!

I'm sure that's bollocks - if a complete version of Ceremony existed it would surely have found its way out by now. Much more likely that whoever was recording the gig simply forgot to press record till after the song had started (just like the Paradiso gig).

But the audience recordings have Ceremony in full, complete with the opening notes. I listened to it not last night.

For those who haven't heard them......

Ceremony at Birmingham - full audience recording

24 Hours - full audience recording

His Holiness, The Pope wrote:

Philip Collins wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

pumped full of drugs wrote: Still was a neccessity for all the above reasons, if kinda sloppy. How much, if much at all, was done to the tracks on Still after the fact to clean up, finish, or edit these tracks? Did Hannent have much of a say on the "finished product"?

How much was done to the live "Ceremony" to make it sound like a complete song? Was the recording flawed or the band screwup or something?

It was a complete song at the gig, started with the familiar bassline. Tony Wilson insisted on cutting the first two minutes from it on Still to make it sound like a bootleg!

The song was not without problems though, Ian's microphone was not plugged in at the start, if you listen closely you can hear him singing without the mic (i.e it is picked up by one of the amp mics). A roadie plugged it in just before the second chorus!

I'm sure that's bollocks - if a complete version of Ceremony existed it would surely have found its way out by now. Much more likely that whoever was recording the gig simply forgot to press record till after the song had started (just like the Paradiso gig).

But the audience recordings have Ceremony in full, complete with the opening notes. I listened to it not last night.

I meant a complete version from from the mixing desk

Why choose their last gig to this album? Decades and Ceremony are the great moments of that night. I also wonder why they did not play LWTUA as it would be their next single.Was it Ian's choice?Or poor equipaments that night?

Top quality thread here Tim Just reading this & mil's interview with Ml.Shamberg this morning - can't remember DigitalRepublic seeming so 'high-brow':D

I never really gave a thought to the WHY of Still before, I do like the idea that it was deliberately tampered with to seem more bootleg-like, but I had always put things like the shortened Ceremony down to typical Factory fuck-up-ery.

I got my copy of Stll given to me by a neighbour, who no longer wanted her copy(!) back around 1984 & remember thinking how crap the live parts seemed (i'd never been to a gig at that stage, so what did i know!) & the off-tune synth on Isolation really pissed me off because i could hear that it should have been a great version - after a while that became a reason to like the track more - & to play it LOUDER out the window to really piss off the neighbours

Julio wrote: Why choose their last gig to this album? Decades and Ceremony are the great moments of that night. I also wonder why they did not play LWTUA as it would be their next single.Was it Ian's choice?Or poor equipaments that night?

It simply wasn't in the setlist. They didn't play every song at every show!

Some additions to what Tim has already posted...

Ceremony (aud / mixing desk segue)

24 Hours (Still vinyl rip)

oldmonkey wrote:

Julio wrote: Why choose their last gig to this album? Decades and Ceremony are the great moments of that night. I also wonder why they did not play LWTUA as it would be their next single.Was it Ian's choice?Or poor equipaments that night?

It simply wasn't in the setlist. They didn't play every song at every show!

Tim,

We could send to the band what you wrote above, not a bad idea, nah?

Thanks old Monkey / Tim for the Birmingham audience clips. Old Blue for those stomping beauties too. as far as Still having a clean version of the selected tunes that is a clear attribute because the other recordings were available elsewhere. Is nice to have the contrast on the hybrid Still.

DC wrote: The live gig is pretty clean compared to most boots and doesn't capture what it was really like to see them. Les Bains Douche or Preston do a pretty good job of that though for those who weren't around. I've always thought that the synth sounds pretty out of tune on Decades and Isolation. What does it sound like on the audience tape

something about a stretched tape, which makes no sense as everything would go out of tune.

Weren't the synthesizers prone to overheating during the shows.

I had a listen last night, and the synth doesn't sound out of tune on Isolation, just on Decades. Maybe Barney knocked a switch before Decades? Does anyone know what synth they were using, and whether that's likely?

DC wrote: I had a listen last night, and the synth doesn't sound out of tune on Isolation, just on Decades. Maybe Barney knocked a switch before Decades? Does anyone know what synth they were using, and whether that's likely?

Sounds out of tune on both to me! I guess they'd have been using the ARP Omni 2 synth at the Birmingham gig - it's got lots of sliders and buttons on it but I've no idea what any of them do!

It's not out of tune on "Isolation". Maybe the pitch isn't the same as the bass, but it's close enough.

Old Blue wrote: Some additions to what Tim has already posted...

Ceremony (aud / mixing desk segue)

24 Hours (Still vinyl rip)

Thanks OB

What are you complaining about? Don't worry about how the album came about, just enjoy it....

stellarbassist wrote: What are you complaining about? Don't worry about how the album came about, just enjoy it....

Who's complaining?

I would not complain about my wounded heart

DC- I had often wondered as well what was with the synth sound on Decades and found out recently what it is. The synths of the time were analog and still in sort of early stages of perfecting. Since they were fairly primitive compared to the digital synths of today (and even a few years later with New Order) they were prone to overheating which would cause that out-of-tune melting sort of sound. It makes me sad because Decades is IMO one of the top JD songs and I have yet to find another live version of it. Anyway, figured that may help. Cheers.

Dave - I reckon you're right. That sounds like the most likely explanation.

Tim - many, many thanks for the audience recording! I have not had a chance to listen yet, but will stick it on tonight. Magic!