New Order's Peak

When do you feel New Order were at their peak? Not of commercial success, but when they were at their best.

For me it was Summer 1987. True Faith is released and charts at 4. New Order do a mini-tour including an awesome gig at The Hacienda and a Glastonbury appearance. I remember the "New Order Summer 87" t-shirt which was the fashion item to wear at the time.

In 1987 They are a band playing by their own rules. Their artwork is like nothing else. Their music soars and they have got tight on stage.

This for me, was New Order's peak.

Any comments, anyone?

the current period is very productive as well.

two albums numerous singles and gigs.

For me 1981 - 1985 inclusive. Innovation/mystery and a certian defiance of convention was their game and they lost that after 1986......

do you mean musical peak or sexual peak?

1984 sublime era

El Jarvo wrote: About 2120hrs usually.

When Ceremony's playing.

Their live peak has to be 1984, 1985, 1986.

Having said that I have to agree that Ceremony live sounds as good today as it ever has.

For me personally,'85-'89,commercially,probably '87-'89.They would have been as big as U2 if they had pushed on around this time but made a conscious decision not to having seen the sacrifice & compromise U2 in particular had to go thru' to get there,& I for one,am very happy they didn't.They wouldn't be what they were or are if they had

Defo 89 for me

For the mainstream success, yes, 1987 was a breakthru. Within 12 months you got gigs at Glastonberry, Wembley, three top-notch singles (BLT, TF, TBTHOG), Substance, video rotation on music channels.

To me the most interesting period was though 1982 - it was when they were sandwiched between electro, post punk and reggae - the most intriguing time.

They peaked for me in '85.

Not sure if I've peaked for them yet.

1981

Judging from the studio stuff and the few live bootlegs I've heard, I think NO had two definitive peaks:

82/83: PCL-a great album and the genre pushing/breaking of Blue Monday. By now, it seemed that the group were getting steadier live without losing their experimental charms and (feigned?) nochalance.

88/89: Technique is so effortlessly sublime you realize the hit and misses of the mid 80s were essential to them reaching this degree of fluidity.

Since I was born in '85, I can only really speculate on their peaks since I didn't get to witness their ascendancy.

October 2nd 1986.

June 25th 2005 - Jetstream at Glastonbury.

Awesome

4th September 1988

18/04/1981 of course :yes:

Tomorrow night...

Who the fcuk am I kidding... 20 odd years too late...

81-85 for me...

Snorri xxx

J.A.K wrote: 4th September 1988

Same for me i think.

I might extend it to the release of World in Motion though; not because its a classic song, but because at the time doing the England song was a career ender for many bands, having not inspired a hit for years. NO managed to make a song which sounded like NO and a footie song, and hit no 1, while still sounding cool to anyone in the UK.

Now bands fight each other to do the Euro/WC football song.

Their peak is when I listen to their music. So it can be anytime past, current, future.

Digital Mike -The People's Moderator wrote: 1984 sublime era

The 07- 07-84. BARCELONA HURT. now listed on You TUBE videos. and 1984 Bradford Ceremony, 586 and YSF.

1983-85. Before they came up for air is class. With Hurt, DNE still Live. Currently 06 sounds like the wind is back in the sails. If it ever really left.

1983-1985 : varied and soemtimes surprising setlists, bad attitude towards audiences, heart-felt performances, and two of their greatest albums (PC&L and Low-Life). It all went downhill from there.

To my ears, 87-89 was their time at the top.

But, with all the JD stuff happenin in the next year or so and hopefully a new album in the next 2-3 years, they could maybe hit another peak???

Burt Reynolds wrote:

J.A.K wrote: 4th September 1988

Same for me i think.

I might extend it to the release of World in Motion though; not because its a classic song, but because at the time doing the England song was a career ender for many bands, having not inspired a hit for years. NO managed to make a song which sounded like NO and a footie song, and hit no 1, while still sounding cool to anyone in the UK.

Now bands fight each other to do the Euro/WC football song.

made the date up!:p :D

oldmonkey wrote: October 2nd 1986.

Before Barney learned how to sing properly. After that, there's some great stuff, but I just don't like it as much.

methanolcereal wrote: Before Barney learned how to sing properly. After that, there's some great stuff, but I just don't like it as much.

Before last Sunday?

They were at their peak between 1981 and 1983. Live, they've never bettered 1981.

DC wrote: They were at their peak between 1981 and 1983. Live, they've never bettered 1981.

For tightness maybe, but some of the gigs since then have seen amazing peaks. When it all clicks together they are still unbelievably good, it's a different type of experience these days, but there are fewer WTF gigs and more crackers.

Apart from any commercial succes they do so much deserve, there isn't a particular year considered as a 'peak' for little old me but a plain era : '81 - '89, from dark cutting edge introspection through plain daring innovations (E.G.G./Cries&Whispers/Temptation-Hurt/Blue Monday-the beach), Essentials breakthrough albums : P.C.L., Low-Life, Substance and Technique. Since then, even though a fantastic come back with top notch talent, it remains to be seen if they would challenge the way of besting (or equal) their greatest masterpiece : TECHNIQUE.

RAVEANE DIDIER wrote: Apart from any commercial succes they do so much deserve, there isn't a particular year considered as a 'peak' for little old me but a plain era : '81 - '89, from dark cutting edge introspection through plain daring innovations (E.G.G./Cries&Whispers/Temptation-Hurt/Blue Monday-the beach), Essentials breakthrough albums : P.C.L., Low-Life, Substance and Technique. Since then, even though a fantastic come back with top notch talent, it remains to be seen if they would challenge the way of besting (or equal) their greatest masterpiece : TECHNIQUE.

I don't think Technique was their masterpiece, although it was a good album.

Brotherhood for me.

Each to their own I suppose, I've always hated Brotherhood, shoddy production of half-baked songs in the main. Only BLT and Angel Dust sound like they were intended to!

Can't agree at all Tim.

The production of one or two (As it is.... for example) is a bit weak, but it is full of cracking tracks and was the band at a high point. They even had the balls to have a rock side and a synth side to illustrate their two faces.

Each to their own as you say.

Sad thing is that I've known them only since 1987 (let's ignore a certain 80s-hype about BlueMonday). And to be honest, I loved their Substance album so much that I think that those days were their best, but to be honest, musically speaking, they were best between PCL & Low Life - an era when they "were pushing barriers forward. But you don't have to do it all the time"

1985-1987. they had just made two great albums (low-life and brotherhood) and substance was released, which cemented them as a commercially and artistically great band, IMO.

of course, it's hard for me to really say, as i didn't get into NO until 1987, and low-life and brotherhood were my first two albums after substance, so had i known of them earlier i might say an earlier period was their best.

Leeds Tiffany's 1985 about midnight...TPK.

Three of their best tracks were from '87: TF, TBTHOG, and Temptation '87. It's unfortunate that they had really shitty production on all of them!

Aries wrote: Three of their best tracks were from '87: TF, TBTHOG, and Temptation '87. It's unfortunate that they had really shitty production on all of them!

I take it youre being sarcastic? TBTHOG is one of their most polished tracks, as is True Faith. Both had top producers and were probably quit expensive to make.

As for Brotherhood, it sounds like it was recorded in a day on a 4-track in someones basement, with one guitar effects pedal and a microphone from Woolworths. Its the Costco album compared to the Watrose Technique.

Ally wrote:

Aries wrote: Three of their best tracks were from '87: TF, TBTHOG, and Temptation '87. It's unfortunate that they had really shitty production on all of them!

True Faith's production is excellent, Stephen Hague did a brilliant job.

NO Regret wrote: I take it youre being sarcastic? TBTHOG is one of their most polished tracks, as is True Faith. Both had top producers and were probably quit expensive to make.

New Order produced TBTHOG themselves, Arthur Baker just mixed it and even though TBTHOG came out after True Faith, TF has aged far better in terms of how it sounds.

TBTHOG was ruined by those shitty MIDI orchestral hits and a Barney tapping a cowbell during the 7" intro. The John Peel session version from 1998 finally gave that tune the arrangement it deserved and it sounds fantastic there.

I agree, the 1998 Peel and also the version from Reading (the same year) are awesome.

Hooky didn't like Stephen Hague's production on True Faith as he was almost rendered redundant, if I remember rightly!

Blunderer wrote: Hooky didn't like Stephen Hague's production on True Faith as he was almost rendered redundant, if I remember rightly!

I think youre referring to 1963. Hooky is clearly audiable on True Faith.

...and he was certainly audible at Liverpool during True Faith.

NO Regret wrote:

Blunderer wrote: Hooky didn't like Stephen Hague's production on True Faith as he was almost rendered redundant, if I remember rightly!

I think youre referring to 1963. Hooky is clearly audiable on True Faith.

He is well down in the mix in True Faith. Compare the original release to later recordings/performances of the song.

Blunderer wrote:

NO Regret wrote:

Blunderer wrote: Hooky didn't like Stephen Hague's production on True Faith as he was almost rendered redundant, if I remember rightly!

I think youre referring to 1963. Hooky is clearly audiable on True Faith.

He is well down in the mix in True Faith. Compare the original release to later recordings/performances of the song.

Bitterness is not a nice trait.

Aries wrote: Three of their best tracks were from '87: TF, TBTHOG, and Temptation '87. It's unfortunate that they had really shitty production on all of them!

I've always thought (and said) that we lost a great album there,1963-True Faith-Nothing For Me-Touched and all the bits and bobs knocking about then,Salvation etc,ok it would've pushed Technique back,but that might have changed everything thats happened since.

NO Regret wrote:

Blunderer wrote:

NO Regret wrote:

Blunderer wrote: Hooky didn't like Stephen Hague's production on True Faith as he was almost rendered redundant, if I remember rightly!

I think youre referring to 1963. Hooky is clearly audiable on True Faith.

He is well down in the mix in True Faith. Compare the original release to later recordings/performances of the song.

Bitterness is not a nice trait.

Although I don't know him, I don't think Hooky is the type to be bitter. I think he just commented on this in the press later on.

The guitar and particularly bass levels in records produced by other people has been a constant theme of discontent, right back from the RCA demo and then Unknown Pleasures through to some of the Get Ready tracks and even the stuff from WFTSC era they did with Brian Higgins that didn't make the cut. Too many producers have tried to bury the bass deep in the mix, failing to understand that it underpins everything in the New Order sound. Take the Robie/Hague era, True Faith, 1963 and Shellshock all suffered from Your Silent Bass Syndrome, as did much of Republic.

Tim wrote: The guitar and particularly bass levels in records produced by other people has been a constant theme of discontent, right back from the RCA demo and then Unknown Pleasures through to some of the Get Ready tracks and even the stuff from WFTSC era they did with Brian Higgins that didn't make the cut. Too many producers have tried to bury the bass deep in the mix, failing to understand that it underpins everything in the New Order sound. Take the Robie/Hague era, True Faith, 1963 and Shellshock all suffered from Your Silent Bass Syndrome, as did much of Republic.

Very true. "Your Silent Bass" made me laugh.

I have actually thought this before: very little New Order stuff produced by other people quite hits the mark for me. I hated Republic.

I'd have to say 1989

Yeah,

I'd say the Technique era but I still think that with the right electro/punk producer they still have what's coming to them (In a good way). People like U2 and DepecheMode found the right producers to push their bands into edgier territory (might be good or bad) and that usually translates into more media attention (again good or bad).

Next time get a real fan like Liam Howlett or the Chem Bros or Mirwais or Hybrid to produce and entire record then we'll all rewrite these forum entries.

Either way I hope they plan on releasing a new record in time for the Control movie. Might as well cash in.

Vik D - Serotonin wrote: still think that with the right electro/punk producer they still have what's coming to them (In a good way).

Either way I hope they plan on releasing a new record in time for the Control movie. Might as well cash in.

Money talks and with this 2006- wave of attention. Sofia Copola using Ceremony and AoC in Marie Antoinette etc.s. in the press. The new album certainly would sell. Probably far greater than the expected 'established base.

Is it a matter of anything new from them is appreciated- would you really want a U2- style Zooropa or punk- heavy dance. Think the four of them out behind the garage w/ their gear and a cameo from Ms. Gillian would also sell.

Vik D - Serotonin wrote:

Next time get a real fan like Liam Howlett or the Chem Bros or Mirwais or Hybrid to produce and entire record then we'll all rewrite these forum entries.

Is Liam a NO fan? Can't say I've heard him talking about them. I know he's defo a Gary Numan fan, as the Prodigy's live guitarist is also Numan's.

Don't know about the Chems doing a whole album. Didn't Hooky say around the time of HTS that they just sat in awe of the fact that they were producing NO? Sure, HTS is a class tune, but not a memorable one. IMHO.

I'd love to hear Rick Rubin do a NO album (he produces everyone else, so why not?) Maybe even Arthur Baker?

Not sure about Rick Rubin. How about Butch Vig? Garbage has a nice electronic/guitar balance.

Yeah I haven't really heard Howllet talk about New Order...I just assumed. New Blood behind the desk would be good either way. Who did the gNarls Barkley record (there's some nice bass mixing on that)?

The Hybrid/Hooky stuff was great it was just missing the rest of New Order.

Vik D - Serotonin wrote: Not sure about Rick Rubin. How about Butch Vig? Garbage has a nice electronic/guitar balance.

Yeah, inspired choice.

Also, Youth would be good because he is a class dance producer and a top bassist as well (I'm not just saying that because I'm a Killing Joke fan).

I'm with you there, mate!

But if they'd done the working out the songs live scenario for the Technique stuff!

Wow, now that would have been stunning!

1983-85= artistic/ creative peak

1987-89= peak of maturity as a band

imo

Ah maybe Bentley could take a crack at it. What do you say Chris?

Ive often thought that Brian Eno could have got some interesting results from producing New Order. Dont think hes so cutting edge now. Cant think of any from the current crop.