74 replies · 2,102 views
82 votes · voting closed
Following on from another thread - which is the ultimate version of Ceremony?
Personally prefer the original. Live, this has got to be New Order's most incendiary number and I think the original captures some of that. Have always found the Substance version rather flat by comparison.
What say you?
Original - though, like Temptation, I guess individuals are probably going to be swayed by which one they heard first.
I love the original... I think it's got a slightly more interesting guitar part as well...
However there may also be a novelty factor that makes me like it more since the Substance version is a little more "played out" for me.
As for the Galaxie 500 version... Dreadful(in my humble opinon).
Does the original really reflect the live version more? In my opinion it's the other way round. The original may sound rough and raw but it's too slow. It sounds like a demo. The re-recorded version is uplifting and wonderful, imo.
Shug Sludden wrote:
AOC pips it live though ;)
You've never seen it played live!!!
Original Ceremony.
Well don't be FOOLED that SINGLES version is about TWICE as loud when doing a comparison.Nearly blew my bloody ears out BEFORE adjusting the sound to prevent WEARING earing PROTECTION.But to answer the question it is the ORIGINAL.Great tune/song but when it came out it took AGES for me to make the lyrics out.I think i was drinking MORE in the good old days. 
And after 25 years the three 12 inch i own turn out to be the REMIX and not an ORIGINAL amongst them.EVER been FOOLED?It is enough to TURN you!
That is IF my 7 inch single is the real deal?Is there a REMIX 7 inch aswell?
NB for some reason the version on Itunes copy of "Singles" is the Substance version. Unless they're being lazy and just using the same preview clip for both.
Deffo the original (erm .. that's the version on Singles right?) Packs a great punch whereas the Substance version is for puffs
oldmonkey wrote: an old gold sleeved 7" does the job for me every time
I've got that but still never been sure if it's the original
Voted for the original, Though I love the Substance version because it was the first version I heard...
Tough call...
The Original version for me altough a tough call as I like the Substance version as well. Never heared the Galaxie 5000 version is it a techno/electro mix of it? Cheers!
El Jarvo wrote:
Shug Sludden wrote: AOC pips it live though ;)
How. Would. You. Know?
Psychic, same thought, same post, same time!
Yoof of today Al, see something on the box and they've experienced it. He's seen a decent Celtic and Scotland team as well. 
The original does seem like a better performance but there does seem to be too much echo and effects... Bernard is made to sound distant and the drums are muddled.
The Galaxie version is actually a very slow, plodding version... I'm sure there's probably a preview on itunes that you can hear...
You're not missing much.
Alan Paul Kitching wrote: The Original version for me altough a tough call as I like the Substance version as well. Never heared the Galaxie 5000 version is it a techno/electro mix of it? Cheers!
It's slowed down to a slug's pace. Pretty brutal. Wouldn't be so bad if they kept the original timing I guess.
Kerry Harris wrote: The Galaxie version is actually a very slow, plodding version... I'm sure there's probably a preview on itunes that you can hear...
You're not missing much.
Razed In A New Division Of Agony wrote:
Alan Paul Kitching wrote: The Original version for me altough a tough call as I like the Substance version as well. Never heared the Galaxie 5000 version is it a techno/electro mix of it? Cheers!
It's slowed down to a slug's pace. Pretty brutal. Wouldn't be so bad if they kept the original timing I guess.
Cheers for the info lads will probably give the Galaxie version a miss. Cheers!
James Thomas wrote:
El Jarvo wrote:
Shug Sludden wrote: AOC pips it live though ;)
How. Would. You. Know?
Psychic, same thought, same post, same time!
Yoof of today Al, see something on the box and they've experienced it. He's seen a decent Celtic and Scotland team as well.
The next piss up I'll be bringing a step ladder to bang both yer ugly (and coincidentally baldy) heids together 
Tough call,as both have their merits..
But I was weaned on Substance 87,having fell in love with Ceremony on there first..DE-lighted to discover the original version the oldtimers kept for themselves much later,and the bass is hornier...Both Qualidee!
Galaxy pips it, mind
not.
Wasim wrote: Does the original really reflect the live version more? In my opinion it's the other way round. The original may sound rough and raw but it's too slow. It sounds like a demo. The re-recorded version is uplifting and wonderful, imo.
Youre not alone Wasim. I totally agree. The 2nd version is clearer, harder, more defined, more melodic and for me the live version is just a harder version.
But the original is (im sorry to say) dreadful in comparison. Bernards guitar is so tinny it sounds like there was no amp, the lyrics are flat and the song is played slower.
Maybe its because I missed the original the first time around and was spoilt by having Substance as my first taste of New Order, that I feel this way. I guess those who were there for the original will hold that version in higher esteem.
Wasim wrote: Does the original really reflect the live version more? In my opinion it's the other way round. The original may sound rough and raw but it's too slow. It sounds like a demo. The re-recorded version is uplifting and wonderful, imo.
Yeah, I agree with every word you said.
Neither recorded version is that much like the live one to me - the live one is longer more often than not, and is probably my favourite version of all of them.
Original version, definitely...
Galaxie 500 version is *VERY* good, btw - do give it a listen! 
Next, people will be saying they don't like Sunrise, or Age Of Consent... Er, hang on, they already did! 
I'm gonna vote for the original version as well...even if I'm a frigging septic with no taste...
still remember when Muffy sent me a disc with that version on it...blew the Substance type version out of the frigging water!!!
Reasons why I prefer the substance version:
-The vocals are better (though they could be mixed better) -The bass line during the 'watching forever' bit isn't really there on the original version -Steve's drums are crisper -Faster tempo seems to be in line with most live versions
merits as I see it of the singles version:
-vocal mix (granted, not the whole vocal take itself) -second guitar more audible during the bridge (but the mixing of the lead is obnoxious-the quiet to loud effect doesn't really work, unless that's just a shoddy mastering job on singles)* -more spacious mix
If the substance version had a little more reverb, I would say it is without question superior to the original, but as it does not, I enjoy the original now and then for its unique qualities.
*what is Bernard playing there? What did Gillian end up playing? It's not chorus riff...slightly different and far-off sounding.
Also, Galaxie 500 were a fantastic group from Boston. Didn't like their version of Ceremony at first, but it has grown on me steadily.
James Thomas wrote:
Shug Sludden wrote:
AOC pips it live though ;)
You've never seen it played live!!!
-second guitar more audible during the bridge (but the mixing of the lead is obnoxious-the quiet to loud effect doesn't really work, unless that's just a shoddy mastering job on singles)*
'Singles' is shoddily remastered. It's all loud make no mistake about that. The channels are reversed too!
Johnny wrote:
oldmonkey wrote: an old gold sleeved 7" does the job for me every time
I've got that but still never been sure if it's the original
I am ALMOST certain that there is only one version on the 7inch GOLD sleeve which is NOT the remixed one.So it is INDEED the ORIGINAL.But as per my previos post on the 12 inch ones i could be wrong......i could be right.
The original 7" version. Not the poorly "remastered" and channel-reversed version on Singles !
jan 81,, bought ceremony by new order,it is still being played,, though love the 12" of ,in a lonely place.
the rest is substance abuse..
the best live version for me was wemberly 87....what an encore to.
define it all.
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal
Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.
MIMX wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal
Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.
I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.
Substance version is the best NO recorded version-there are some very good and very average live versions. The Galaxie 500 version is a pretty good attempt but to my ears at least sounds a bit like how the Stone Roses would have done it if they had a chance to do a version.
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal
Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.
I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.
I agree. The version on Heart and Soul is an artifact-an important piece of history but in terms of sheer quality in both production and performance, it's just not something one would take delight in listening to on a regular basis. I can't see how anyone would. And yeah, the Still version is pretty cool, but the missing verse and shoddy mastering leave something to be desired.
Ceremony is a New Order song. If Bernard, Hooky, and Steve had not bothered to continue on as New Order, Ceremony would have been a lost song. They made it theirs. And it's been attested that Bernard had to rework at least a bit of the lyrics. I find it funny that people actually prefer Ian's vocal judged by the two recordings available.
JV wrote:
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal
Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.
I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.
I agree. The version on Heart and Soul is an artifact-an important piece of history but in terms of sheer quality in both production and performance, it's just not something one would take delight in listening to on a regular basis. I can't see how anyone would. And yeah, the Still version is pretty cool, but the missing verse and shoddy mastering leave something to be desired.
Ceremony is a New Order song. If Bernard, Hooky, and Steve had not bothered to continue on as New Order, Ceremony would have been a lost song. They made it theirs. And it's been attested that Bernard had to rework at least a bit of the lyrics. I find it funny that people actually prefer Ian's vocal judged by the two recordings available.
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote:
Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal
Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I've seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.
I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.
Stuck Up! Moi? Stuck up Glaswegians are few and far between, and it's a crime I've never been accused of before! And as for "I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling". Have you ever heard Movement? Barney's that shit scared of being thrust into the vocalist spotlight that he mumbles and mutters his way through a full album! In fact the full album sounds/feels like they're all lost without Curtis. (But it's [Movement] still better than the vast majority of pap that passes for music, then & now).
Not much for the Galaxie version, though it's 'okay' if it comes on the disc changer, I prefer the Original.
To respond to the above post ^^^
I like that half-petrified vocal Sumner's got going on in Movement. Whole album reeks of fragility, which makes the moments that he does scream out in frustration (or excitement) in later songs that much more interesting. The progression from nervous vocalist to almost sure lead is quite cool.
the original...with IC on vocals.
it's a shame the quality's a bit naff.
in these days of audio cleaning techniques it'd be great if that was repaired...
winterhilf wrote: the original...with IC on vocals. it's a shame the quality's a bit naff. in these days of audio cleaning techniques it'd be great if that was repaired...
I highly doubt you'd get a clearer vocal.
melly wrote:
I like that half-petrified vocal Sumner's got going on in Movement. Whole album reeks of fragility, which makes the moments that he does scream out in frustration (or excitement) in later songs that much more interesting. The progression from nervous vocalist to almost sure lead is quite cool.
I agree, but I think the differences (not just vocally) between "Movement" and the "Mini-Album" are astounding! On Movement NO are a shadow of JD (themselves) but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order" and Barney found his own vocal and lyrical style.
Ceremony was/is and remains a Joy Division song, Temptation is where New Order found their own voice.
As for the people who want to "clean up" Ceremony the original way to miss the point. Fucking leave it alone!
It is what it is, you'll be wanting to clean(fuck)up Sister Ray next, then it'll be the whole of Still. "Cleaner" does not equate with "better", touching it would be like asking a house painter to repaint "The Last Supper" (a painting almost destroyed by "professional" restorers).
MIMX-
I'll definitely give you that, that EP was like a strike of lightning when I first put it on the turntable because of its incredible leap (in a short span of time) to taking his/their own course. It's like taking a big breath of crisp air after listening to a round off Movement, you wonder who spiked the water.
The original for me. I rather like the Galaxie version a lot, love the version in their DVD where they're playing it onstage with their producer Kramer, even though he hates the song (according to the interview booklet inside at any rate).
MIMX wrote: "Cleaner" does not equate with "better", touching it would be like asking a house painter to repaint "The Last Supper" (a painting almost destroyed by "professional" restorers).
Just look at the original Star Wars trilogy. The changes Lucas made was indeed a travesty.
MIMX wrote: Ceremony was/is and remains a Joy Division song, Temptation is where New Order found their own voice.
"Ceremony" is a Joy Division song but it sounds quite different from previous songs. It's like an in between song. Anyway, it's my favourite song of all time. If Ian had made a proper recording, I'm not even sure if I would like it as much because the "Ceremony" from the single is extremely good to my ears. Anything different may jeopardize what I consider as almost perfect.
personaly im more into JDs version these days as i hammered my 12" version to death and also dont have a turntable anymore...
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote: Ceremony was/is and remains a Joy Division song, Temptation is where New Order found their own voice.
"Ceremony" is a Joy Division song but it sounds quite different from previous songs. It's like an in between song. Anyway, it's my favourite song of all time. If Ian had made a proper recording, I'm not even sure if I would like it as much because the "Ceremony" from the single is extremely good to my ears. Anything different may jeopardize what I consider as almost perfect.
I think EGG is where NO made their first big break. And I agree Ceremony has that in-between feel. It was still evolving after Ian's death, even if the basic structure was there.
JV wrote: I think EGG is where NO made their first big break.
Ahem... Cough, cough...
MIMX wrote: but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order"
(Another case of the dreaded NOOL reading disability).
MIMX wrote:
JV wrote: I think EGG is where NO made their first big break.
Ahem... Cough, cough...
MIMX wrote: but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order"
(Another case of the dreaded NOOL reading disability).
Um, I think that's a bit unfair.
MIMX wrote:
JV wrote: I think EGG is where NO made their first big break.
Ahem... Cough, cough...
MIMX wrote: but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order"
(Another case of the dreaded NOOL reading disability).
I'm all lost. What is NOOL?
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote:
JV wrote: I think EGG is where NO made their first big break.
Ahem... Cough, cough...
MIMX wrote: but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order"
(Another case of the dreaded NOOL reading disability).
I'm all lost. What is NOOL?
Our pet abbreviation of this site's name(NewOrderOnLine). If you look further Spotnick also calls it the New Order Information Service(or NOISE in it's abbreviated form).
Canuck21 wrote:
MIMX wrote: "Cleaner" does not equate with "better", touching it would be like asking a house painter to repaint "The Last Supper" (a painting almost destroyed by "professional" restorers).
Just look at the original Star Wars trilogy. The changes Lucas made was indeed a travesty.
Bad example my friend. The original film print had Vader as a purple villain, cos all the colours had badly faded. So if you compare the original print to the touched up remastered one, then the newer version wins without question.
NO Regret wrote: Bad example my friend. The original film print had Vader as a purple villain, cos all the colours had badly faded. So if you compare the original print to the touched up remastered one, then the newer version wins without question.
You're clearly not a Star Wars fan, else you'd know what I'm talking about.
if its a decent vocal your after theres always ian macs live version with them in manchester.(86).
the bunnys used to incorporate the riff into there sequenced songs around this time,, rather good.
thanks now fook off. barney to the mac.
below the surface.
MIMX wrote:
melly wrote:
I like that half-petrified vocal Sumner's got going on in Movement. Whole album reeks of fragility, which makes the moments that he does scream out in frustration (or excitement) in later songs that much more interesting. The progression from nervous vocalist to almost sure lead is quite cool.
I agree, but I think the differences (not just vocally) between "Movement" and the "Mini-Album" are astounding! On Movement NO are a shadow of JD (themselves) but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order" and Barney found his own vocal and lyrical style.
Ceremony was/is and remains a Joy Division song, Temptation is where New Order found their own voice. As for the people who want to "clean up" Ceremony the original way to miss the point. Fucking leave it alone! It is what it is, you'll be wanting to clean(fuck)up Sister Ray next, then it'll be the whole of Still. "Cleaner" does not equate with "better", touching it would be like asking a house painter to repaint "The Last Supper" (a painting almost destroyed by "professional" restorers).
wow, just a suggestion. now if an audio genius guy was to play with that original tape...& made it as crisp as a proper studio recording i know which version i'd listen to. sure, you could still have your original to listen to as well. but yeah, i highly doubt if it's possible.
winterhilf wrote: wow, just a suggestion. now if an audio genius guy was to play with that original tape...& made it as crisp as a proper studio recording i know which version i'd listen to. sure, you could still have your original to listen to as well. but yeah, i highly doubt if it's possible.
I finally heard the Still version. The quality is not that bad, I mean I could at least hear Ian singing instead of mumbling and I now have an idea what Ian on vocal would have sounded like and I honestly prefer Barney's vocal for this song.
Alright, I have heard, dare I say this, all 4 versions of the song--
Still Substance Singles Galaxy 500
--and I like Singles.
