Ceremony vs Ceremony

i just love the booming bass on the original.

Reasons why I prefer the substance version:

-The vocals are better (though they could be mixed better) -The bass line during the 'watching forever' bit isn't really there on the original version -Steve's drums are crisper -Faster tempo seems to be in line with most live versions

merits as I see it of the singles version:

-vocal mix (granted, not the whole vocal take itself) -second guitar more audible during the bridge (but the mixing of the lead is obnoxious-the quiet to loud effect doesn't really work, unless that's just a shoddy mastering job on singles)* -more spacious mix

If the substance version had a little more reverb, I would say it is without question superior to the original, but as it does not, I enjoy the original now and then for its unique qualities.

*what is Bernard playing there? What did Gillian end up playing? It's not chorus riff...slightly different and far-off sounding.

Also, Galaxie 500 were a fantastic group from Boston. Didn't like their version of Ceremony at first, but it has grown on me steadily.

James Thomas wrote:

Shug Sludden wrote:

AOC pips it live though ;)

You've never seen it played live!!!

I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

-second guitar more audible during the bridge (but the mixing of the lead is obnoxious-the quiet to loud effect doesn't really work, unless that's just a shoddy mastering job on singles)*

'Singles' is shoddily remastered. It's all loud make no mistake about that. The channels are reversed too!

Just so you can make a balanced descision...

Galaxie 500 - Ceremony

it is good, but not good enough to change my vote.

Johnny wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: an old gold sleeved 7" does the job for me every time

I've got that but still never been sure if it's the original

I am ALMOST certain that there is only one version on the 7inch GOLD sleeve which is NOT the remixed one.So it is INDEED the ORIGINAL.But as per my previos post on the 12 inch ones i could be wrong......i could be right.

substance version for me

The original 7" version. Not the poorly "remastered" and channel-reversed version on Singles !

jan 81,, bought ceremony by new order,it is still being played,, though love the 12" of ,in a lonely place.

the rest is substance abuse..

the best live version for me was wemberly 87....what an encore to.

define it all.

7" Gold sleeve version indeed

It´s easy for me, 7´version!

Substance version...., however, i love the 511 finsbury park live version

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.

MIMX wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.

I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.

Substance version is the best NO recorded version-there are some very good and very average live versions. The Galaxie 500 version is a pretty good attempt but to my ears at least sounds a bit like how the Stone Roses would have done it if they had a chance to do a version.

7' is the definitive although the Still version kicks butt.

Canuck21 wrote:

MIMX wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.

I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.

I agree. The version on Heart and Soul is an artifact-an important piece of history but in terms of sheer quality in both production and performance, it's just not something one would take delight in listening to on a regular basis. I can't see how anyone would. And yeah, the Still version is pretty cool, but the missing verse and shoddy mastering leave something to be desired.

Ceremony is a New Order song. If Bernard, Hooky, and Steve had not bothered to continue on as New Order, Ceremony would have been a lost song. They made it theirs. And it's been attested that Bernard had to rework at least a bit of the lyrics. I find it funny that people actually prefer Ian's vocal judged by the two recordings available.

JV wrote:

Canuck21 wrote:

MIMX wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.

I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.

I agree. The version on Heart and Soul is an artifact-an important piece of history but in terms of sheer quality in both production and performance, it's just not something one would take delight in listening to on a regular basis. I can't see how anyone would. And yeah, the Still version is pretty cool, but the missing verse and shoddy mastering leave something to be desired.

Ceremony is a New Order song. If Bernard, Hooky, and Steve had not bothered to continue on as New Order, Ceremony would have been a lost song. They made it theirs. And it's been attested that Bernard had to rework at least a bit of the lyrics. I find it funny that people actually prefer Ian's vocal judged by the two recordings available.

Canuck21 wrote:

MIMX wrote:

Big Mouth Julio wrote: I prefer the original one by Joy Division with Ian on vocal

Thank you for pointing out that the true original is the Joy Division version, better by a country mile! Although I've seen, in person, (nae luck award tay Shug) NO do a passable live cover.

I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling. If they had recorded it properly, it is conceivable that with Ian's vocal, the song could have sounded better but in reality, it didn't happened and the rough recording really doesn't do it for me. I even like the Galaxy 500 cover better than the Joy Division version. I believe that the die hard Joy Division fans are just too darn stuck up and put in their head that their favourite band's version MUST be better.

Stuck Up! Moi? Stuck up Glaswegians are few and far between, and it's a crime I've never been accused of before! And as for "I really don't understand how some can prefer the Joy Division version when it's so poorly recorded that you can hardly hear anything; all I hear is mumbling". Have you ever heard Movement? Barney's that shit scared of being thrust into the vocalist spotlight that he mumbles and mutters his way through a full album! In fact the full album sounds/feels like they're all lost without Curtis. (But it's [Movement] still better than the vast majority of pap that passes for music, then & now).

Not much for the Galaxie version, though it's 'okay' if it comes on the disc changer, I prefer the Original.

To respond to the above post ^^^

I like that half-petrified vocal Sumner's got going on in Movement. Whole album reeks of fragility, which makes the moments that he does scream out in frustration (or excitement) in later songs that much more interesting. The progression from nervous vocalist to almost sure lead is quite cool.

the original...with IC on vocals. it's a shame the quality's a bit naff. in these days of audio cleaning techniques it'd be great if that was repaired...

winterhilf wrote: the original...with IC on vocals. it's a shame the quality's a bit naff. in these days of audio cleaning techniques it'd be great if that was repaired...

I highly doubt you'd get a clearer vocal.

Almanso's "Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay"-type rendition.

melly wrote:

I like that half-petrified vocal Sumner's got going on in Movement. Whole album reeks of fragility, which makes the moments that he does scream out in frustration (or excitement) in later songs that much more interesting. The progression from nervous vocalist to almost sure lead is quite cool.

I agree, but I think the differences (not just vocally) between "Movement" and the "Mini-Album" are astounding! On Movement NO are a shadow of JD (themselves) but with Temptation EGG etc they really became "New Order" and Barney found his own vocal and lyrical style.
Ceremony was/is and remains a Joy Division song, Temptation is where New Order found their own voice. As for the people who want to "clean up" Ceremony _{the original} way to miss the point. Fucking leave it alone! It is what it is, you'll be wanting to clean(fuck)up Sister Ray next, then it'll be the whole of Still. "Cleaner" does not equate with "better", touching it would be like asking a house painter to repaint "The Last Supper" (a painting almost destroyed by "professional" restorers).

MIMX-

I'll definitely give you that, that EP was like a strike of lightning when I first put it on the turntable because of its incredible leap (in a short span of time) to taking his/their own course. It's like taking a big breath of crisp air after listening to a round off Movement, you wonder who spiked the water.

The 'Still' version beats both singles and substance for me...

Substance.