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This is an idea to start speculating on what you would want on an eventual PC&L Remastered BONUS CD.
IN NO WAY THIS MEAN THIS PROJECT EXISTS, it's just for fun, and so we can eventually send the list to the labels so they would consider it, maybe.
But just maybe.
So, Power, Corruption and Lies 1983... what the hell would you want on a BONUS CD? rare tracks? live gig... what?
every fucking version of Blue Monday on a special disc just for Mr. Garrity...
make sure they toss in that one where they throw in some of them there Love Reaction lyrics in for shits and giggles...
A full DVD of the Hacienda show from July 83 - bits of it were used for Play At Home so hopefully the whole thing exists somewhere.
Failing that, the audio from that Hacienda July 83 show would do, a wonderful gig that was fully representative of what they were doing that year.
You could start with remasters of the singles from that time... Confusion, TLU, Murder.
Maybe include a show... My fave from that era is the Kilkenny show where they nailed "Leave Me Alone" and "Temptation" and Bernard introduces the band members during Ceremony. Too bad they didn't play TLU at that gig. I bet it would've been phenomenal.
Would you prefer a re-recorded 2007 version or a remastered version of the original recording?
And I won't start with the acoustic debate ;)
Hooky acoustic might not sound as good ;)
Mr***[magenta]disco*** wrote: You could start with remasters of the singles from that time... Confusion, TLU, Murder.
How dare you forget Temptation? 
Well, the whole EP with Hurt and Mesh.
TLU is more on Low-Life I believe ?
But it's obviously Blue Monday, Temptation and Confusion... not 3 bad singles ;)
Mr***[magenta]disco*** wrote: You could start with remasters of the singles from that time... Confusion, TLU, Murder.
Maybe include a show... My fave from that era is the Kilkenny show where they nailed "Leave Me Alone" and "Temptation" and Bernard introduces the band members during Ceremony. Too bad they didn't play TLU at that gig. I bet it would've been phenomenal.
TLU would have been shambolic, it was two months away from being written at that stage!
Spotnick wrote:
Mr***[magenta]disco*** wrote: You could start with remasters of the singles from that time... Confusion, TLU, Murder.
How dare you forget Temptation?
Well, the whole EP with Hurt and Mesh.
TLU is more on Low-Life I believe ?
But it's obviously Blue Monday, Temptation and Confusion... not 3 bad singles ;)
Temptation/Hurt doesn't belong on a 1983 compilation, they'd moved on already in terms of songwriting. Don't forget Temptation was written before they had released Movement and was released in the first bit of 1982. Only Blue Monday and Confusion should be included as the singles from this era, with Murder also in the package.
There are some great recordings from 1983, it is one of the best years for high quality recordings, so we shouldn't have too much difficulty in finding some great shows, probably great renditions of every song as well. As already said, the Hacienda July 83 is probably the best of all, but several of the US tour are fabulous too, and the LA Florentine Gardens may be their best ever gig, pity the sound quality isn't quite as good as some.
How about a bonus DVD of the gig at Bournemouth Town Hall...i know it was filmed, the bloke was standing behind me...
graingerman wrote: How about a bonus DVD of the gig at Bournemouth Town Hall...i know it was filmed, the bloke was standing behind me...
Quality's not up to much though, certainly not good enough for a professional release, not when there are at least 2 better pro recordings from this era.
Well, you know me, I'll have as many demos and rehearsal tapes as they can fit on it. Sometimes the true essence of a tune gets washed out in production (Hurt being an obvious example, the rehearsal versions are hard edged and tight, but the record is muddy and fluffy, the same would certainly hold for PCL era tracks, imagine Ecstacy or ultraviolence as they sounded when programmed).
As for the album itself, I think just a tiny bit of remastering, nothing extreme, just lose some of the noise and tighten the bottom end just a touch (unlike LowLife and Brotherhood which need a total makeover from 500Hz down...if there's any signal there to work with that is 
).
BTW, I think you will find that hooky's style of playing works a lot better accousticly than most "normal" playing techniques. Plectra cause the string to sound more "purely" than fingers and thumbs (argue with that, I dare thee...I have the science to back it up ) and the human ear and auditory processing wetware will track anything melodic ten times easier than something with limited pitch variation and much emphasis on rhythm....like normal basslines....it's why non-bassplayers find it hard to spot and commit to memory, most normal basslines).
So there :finger:
Old Blue wrote: A full DVD of the Hacienda show from July 83 - bits of it were used for Play At Home so hopefully the whole thing exists somewhere.
Yes please 
Best gig of all time (IMHO) 
And anyway what's with all this re-mastering stuff? Isn't re-mastering a synonym for re-marketing? I reckon things should be left as they are... As with the JD remaster/gig packages I reckon bootlegs should just be left as bootlegs. There are lots of people who are happy to give them away for free rather than have us fork out more to the (major) record labels.
Christmas must be coming. I can feel that lovely Bah Humbug spirit enfolding me.
Doctor? wrote:
:finger:
That's the only bit I understood, and it sums up my thoughts on a remastered PC&L 
Rich hit the nail on the head...
RichShan wrote:
And anyway what's with all this re-mastering stuff? Isn't re-mastering a synonym for re-marketing? I reckon things should be left as they are... As with the JD remaster/gig packages I reckon bootlegs should just be left as bootlegs. There are lots of people who are happy to give them away for free rather than have us fork out more to the (major) record labels.
Spotnick wrote:
Mr***[magenta]disco*** wrote: You could start with remasters of the singles from that time... Confusion, TLU, Murder.
How dare you forget Temptation?
Well, the whole EP with Hurt and Mesh.
TLU is more on Low-Life I believe ?
But it's obviously Blue Monday, Temptation and Confusion... not 3 bad singles ;)
I'm honestly not sure where TLU would fit.Sonically,it's a definate move forward from P,C&L,but not upto Low Life,it does sit exactly where it is,a bridge between the two IMO.As most of P,C&L was written in '82,TLU in '83,& Low Life in '84,it doesn't seem to fit on either.
RichShan wrote: And anyway what's with all this re-mastering stuff? Isn't re-mastering a synonym for re-marketing? I reckon things should be left as they are... As with the JD remaster/gig packages I reckon bootlegs should just be left as bootlegs. There are lots of people who are happy to give them away for free rather than have us fork out more to the (major) record labels.
Voice of reason.
I said summat similar in the Movement thread.
Still, it's a topic of conversation, I s'pose?
i tend to go with rich actually , power corruption and lies had a realy good polished production and you could hear the giant steps forward made since movement,,only allternative i would want added is the futurama version of 586,,,,pherhaps add in the blackpool debut of age of consent,,, some great shows from 82/83,, one of my faves was liverpool state 24th march though when i heard the boot the moment had been well lost``,hac july 83 ,, have to ask channel 4 for that.
please sir can i have ,,,more?
can you hear me calling you
There must be lots of interesting studio experiments from 1982 - a whole year spent trying out new ideas. Thieves Like Us/Lonesome Tonight are certainly closer to PCL than LL. The idea of re-recording/new vocals on any early NO is utterly terrifying - these were the best days of NO, don't go destroying them with Barney's 'better singing'.
Same as for all of them; The demos; rather than a rehashed bootleg of a gig and a booklet filled with waffle.
oldmonkey wrote:
graingerman wrote: How about a bonus DVD of the gig at Bournemouth Town Hall...i know it was filmed, the bloke was standing behind me...
Quality's not up to much though, certainly not good enough for a professional release, not when there are at least 2 better pro recordings from this era.
Really ? I had no idea that the footage had got any further than the amateur cameraman's bedroom. How much is there and is it available anywhere ? any info gratefully received !
Genuinely. Don't think the recordings past Movement should be Dr.ed with.
As it's been said. That's part of the Charm and reflected the Times. Esp. their Techn. and Chem. experiments and Final choices.
Wherever it was decided to call the Tune Finished and Record it.
The only 1/2 Official could be an Xnumber Disc set of Demos and or Out- Takes. Various Live snapshots.
I'd rather have rare tracks/demos/live cuts or a full live show vs a DVD of a show, I don't have the time to watch them....
No more f'ing saudade wrote:
The Happy One wrote:
Spotnick wrote:
So, Power, Corruption and Lies 1983... what the hell would you want on a BONUS CD? rare tracks? live gig... what?
Cheers Sam.
Though I get a "File Not Found" error. Oh well, I'll just keep on trying.
it was on Dime as well. I might still have it on the harddrive to seed again if you like ...
Geri wrote:
No more f'ing saudade wrote:
The Happy One wrote:
Spotnick wrote:
So, Power, Corruption and Lies 1983... what the hell would you want on a BONUS CD? rare tracks? live gig... what?
Cheers Sam.
Though I get a "File Not Found" error. Oh well, I'll just keep on trying.
it was on Dime as well. I might still have it on the harddrive to seed again if you like ...
Thanks, but I've already got the soundboard. Would've been interested in the matrix though.
With all these speculative NO repackage/remaster 2CD sets, I just hope that if it ever does happen that the record label dealing with this treat every aspect of the original packaging as sympathetically as possible. I honestly cannot for the life of me understand why WEA have been so atrociously lax with the typeface for the shoddy "Low Life" reissue of 2001. That really was disgraceful and unforgiveable.
PCL had some uniquely novel packaging formats with the album, cassette and CD versions all being quite different from one another - especially the original Factory cassette box edition with the postcard and black plastic insert with the titles and credits. It would be nice to see this somehow translated across to the double digipak sleeve art.
As for the extras and bonuses, I would like the original 12" cuts of Blue Monday and The Beach appended to the first CD (42 minutes for the original album leaves at least 30 minutes of wasted space to fill). For the 2nd CD there is no doubt lots of tentative experimental takes of some of these PCL tracks that should be included. No doubt the band have been playing about with proto versions of tracks such as Ecstasy, the Village, 5-8-6 and Your Silent face - especially the earlier versions going under the working title Kraftwerk One (KW1). Perhaps another version of the Peel Session oddity Too Late exists somewhere? How about the alternative take of Video / Prime 5-8-6?
Great 83 gig - Tolworth or something. Whhops it's already been linked! Love this gig - 'An Ideal For Living' fills you in.
This version hasn't been on DIME, trust me. The soundboard version in and of itself doesn't do justice to the additional nuance added performance by the hall reverb and the audience, in my humble opinion. What I've done is taken the best available audience and soundboard versions and blended them together, run this side by side against the straight soundboard version, you'll immediately hear the difference.
The Happy One wrote: This version hasn't been on DIME, trust me. The soundboard version in and of itself doesn't do justice to the additional nuance added performance by the hall reverb and the audience, in my humble opinion. What I've done is taken the best available audience and soundboard versions and blended them together, run this side by side against the straight soundboard version, you'll immediately hear the difference.
IMHO the matrix mix is the best version of this show by far
I recently paid £13 for the cd single of Video 586 so yeah that would have been nice to have as a bonus.
For once, I would like an actual album sleeve, with lyrics, credits and made even a photo or two. Call me crazy.
any live tracks/demos will do me Hopefully it will be along the lines of the pet shop boys reissues which are surely the 'how to ' of a reissue with great sleevenotes and loads of unreleased stuff. This being n.o. im sure if it does happen it will be a f$%k up like retro!! Lets hope that a full blown nool campaign may help us get the stuff out there!!
Oops! Posted in wrong bit. Apologies. Ignore.
(But some blotters stuck on the back would be a nice addition to PC&L.)
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Nobody wants this, then?
It is not rare nor scarce.
We want unreleased stuff.
Indeed!
I'd like it to be released in the same format The Cure remastered their albums with...With at least 1 alternate version of every song on the album, be it live or demo. Throw in a few lost songs and I'd be happy
They've got to remaster it sometime...
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Nobody wants this, then?
I do! Mine bloody vanished into thin air (or one of my mates has sticky fingers.)
No deck to play it on now but, bloody stupid how difficult it is too replace decks and needles nowadays.
That was the record that made New Order, before that they were just a watered down Joy Division with the main man missing.
Shit this thread's been dead a long time!
MIMX wrote:
[magenta]cozmonite61[/magenta] wrote: Nobody wants this, then?
I do! Mine bloody vanished into thin air (or one of my mates has sticky fingers.)
No deck to play it on now but, bloody stupid how difficult it is too replace decks and needles nowadays.
That was the record that made New Order, before that they were just a watered down Joy Division with the main man missing.
Shit this thread's been dead a long time!
I have 2 of them. :) I would still love to get the cd version of it.
The last one cost me $8 about a year back. That's about £3. There are still real HIFI shops that sell turntables . Almost 2 years back I finally bit the bullet and got a Goldring and Cambridge pre-amp.
NOOLigan wrote: ...There are still real HIFI shops that sell turntables . Almost 2 years back I finally bit the bullet and got a Goldring and Cambridge pre-amp.
I've got a deck, just can't find a shop that sells the right needle for it. (And Glasgow is billed as one of Britain's preeminent shopping centres.)
I think the solution is a USB deck, I'm determined to get one ASAP, but I'm just hoping it's easier to find replacement needles for them (USB decks)
Keep 1st CD as original PC&L (8 tracks) - bonus CD to feature the following tracks (most of which have not been available on CD):
previously unheard studio mixes of the songs and / or demos. Hearing how different the 1982 Peel Session of 586 is compared to the LP mix indicates that there is plenty of other stuff of similar interest out there.
But there isn't, that's the problem. The band have rehearsal tapes, a few anyway, but none of them are fit for release as they are just jammed work in progress. We've heard a few, and while they are interesting in their own right, they aren't up to being put out as commercial product.
and one day im gonna find my photos from that gig,,, the only thing i found last time i looked was wolframs address from 1984
though i havent given up thr ghost just yet.
youve got blue eyes
Has to be the Hacienda gig from July 83 really, probably their best ever show?
...that gig on a DVD would be a great extra disc. How about it Warners? It was certainly filmed.
Hmm... how about a good quality 1982 or 1983 show, and some alternate mixes? There might be some rehearsals or whatnot you could extract the odd good track from. if all else fails you could get The Velvet Underpants to remix "Ultraviolence" into an 80 minute epic
Isn't the NYC show from summer '83 supposed to be pretty good? I've not heard it mind you. Otherwise, I'd vote for the Hacienda show July '83.
I agree with Old Blue, a dvd of Hacienda Jan 83 or July 83 (although I don't think that all of July 83 was recorded).
For audio either Paradise Garage in New York or Hacienda July 83.
The hacienda gig, or The Venue, Blackpool 1982-08-30 which contained the debut of AOC, or so I was told. But the gig has an excellent version of 586, we all stand, and ultraviolence, and of course AOC.
I like the idea/suggestions of Mr. Discography earlier on page 3 of this topic. Maybe a different running order but his tracklist is very good (specially because the 12 inch of Thieves Like Us is not on it; we already have it on a lot of New Order (compilation) discs.
Keeping the (ofcourse remastered) album on the 1st disc (because that was how New Order wanted it, Quincy Jones's Quest records added Blue Monday & The Beach on their American CD-release of the album, but it's not how it was meant to be put on the market).
On the 2nd disc I think it's wise to look at various (at least 1!!!)7 inch version(s) of Blue Monday because there was NEVER a proper 7 inch release of their most famous one. After the 12 inch of Blue Monday, The Beach has to come right behind it in 7 inch & 12 inch version.
Only ONE WARNING here: Don't include a whole bonus disc full of Blue Monday versions (like the limited edition of the (Rest Of) New Order back in 1995! Back then it was okay, but not again please.
Furthermore I think the COMPLETE Confusion 12 inch BELONGS on this disc (that's the 4 versions from FAC 93 ofcourse).
I'm completely satisfied by these tracks, if there's more from that period, let's consider it regardless of how many space there is left on the disc.
