No matter how many time I listen the Run and Run 2, I don't hear a difference other than the fact that the single is shorter than the album version. And when I listen to Leaving on a Jet Plane, I don't hear any similarity in the guitar riff. Why is Run 2 not ok to be released anymore, but Run is fine? Can anyone please enlighten me?
Dates
· UTC
Run, Run 2 and Leaving on a Jet Plane
Archived53 replies · 3,295 views
This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
the run2 released on vinyl has some beats on it by i think africa bambata for some reason cd compilations say run 2 but never have the proper track with the beats on.
Dont worry if youve never heard it the technique version is better anyway!!!
gmex88 wrote: the run2 released on vinyl has some beats on it by i think africa bambata for some reason cd compilations say run 2 but never have the proper track with the beats on.
Dont worry if youve never heard it the technique version is better anyway!!!
You are talking about the extended 12" version. The 7" is actually the film clip, but don't tell anybody. 
I was thinking of covering Leaving On A Jet Plane if there was ever a Community 3... 
Snorri xxx
Canuck21 wrote: No matter how many time I listen the Run and Run 2, I don't hear a difference other than the fact that the single is shorter than the album version. And when I listen to Leaving on a Jet Plane, I don't hear any similarity in the guitar riff.
and I always thought it was just me that couldn't hear it, glad to see I'm not on my own then.
Run 2 12" definately does differ from Run off Technique,which is the better version anyway,but I'm fooked if I can hear LOAJP in any of them 
I think it all seems to hinge on the first 3 or 4 notes of the "guitar solo"
But other than that I'm fooked if I can tell either 
If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..." from Run with "I'm leaving on a jet plane, don't know when I'll be back again" from LOAJP then you should be able to hear similarities in the underlying melody.
That's the only similarity I'm aware of. Many have got away with tunes that bear much more of a resemblance to something already written...
The case was a load of shit. The only good thing about it was that John Denver won a load of money in the case, bought himself an aeroplane and killed himself with it.
The dick.
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
If you start singing the "I've packed my bags..." bit the melody of it is matched exactly by the guitar solos (especially the first one) in Run.
It's blindingly obvious.
But even so, Run is a great song. One of my favourites.
Run has been mistaken for Run 2 on more than one occasion thanks to tracklisting errors on certain NO compilations (notably the '94 Best Of) but there are differences between the two. Aside from being shorter, the Run 2 7" has a much harsher sounding snare which is not far off headache inducing. Other than that I think the tempo might be slightly faster than the original.
Even though the 'proper' Run 2 has never been released on CD you can rip the soundtrack off the promo video on A Collection if you have the right DVD software and bingo: your very own digital version of Run 2! The 7" anyway.
The 12" version is shite to my ears... some out of place breakbeat clumsily inserted into what is essentially a rock/acoustic track. It's not one of the finer New Order twelve inch mixes.
Al Murray wrote: Run has been mistaken for Run 2 on more than one occasion thanks to tracklisting errors on certain NO compilations (notably the '94 Best Of)
Yes indeed - the version of Run on "The Best Of" is NOT Run2 (despite being labelled as such)...
To listen to the 7" version of Run2, you'll need to either listen to it off the vinyls (7" promo or 12" single), or on the video to Run (off the Collection DVD)...
Geri wrote:
Canuck21 wrote: No matter how many time I listen the Run and Run 2, I don't hear a difference other than the fact that the single is shorter than the album version. And when I listen to Leaving on a Jet Plane, I don't hear any similarity in the guitar riff.
and I always thought it was just me that couldn't hear it, glad to see I'm not on my own then.
Three of us.
Indeed*!*
The Sub-Cultured Perfect Kisser*!* wrote:
Geri wrote:
Canuck21 wrote: No matter how many time I listen the Run and Run 2, I don't hear a difference other than the fact that the single is shorter than the album version. And when I listen to Leaving on a Jet Plane, I don't hear any similarity in the guitar riff.
and I always thought it was just me that couldn't hear it, glad to see I'm not on my own then.
Three of us.
Indeed*!*
It's on the DVD like Al says. Just extra Chugger Chugger synths really.
Canuck21 wrote: No matter how many time I listen the Run and Run 2, I don't hear a difference other than the fact that the single is shorter than the album version.
Well if you're talking about Run on Technique and Run 2 as featured on The Best Of you won't hear any difference!! It's the exact same mix. But anybody who can't hear the difference between the version on Technique and the version on the 12" (not the crappy break beat mix but the version that's on the video) needs their ears testing!!! .Different drum sound, slightly lighter feel , slightly faster tempo and actually a slightly different arrangement in fact- Barney comes back in with more vocals towards the end of the mix whereas the Technique version the last few minutes are all instrumental
johnny wrote: But anybody who can't hear the difference between the version on Technique and the version on the 12" (not the crappy break beat mix but the version that's on the video) needs their ears testing!!! .Different drum sound, slightly lighter feel , slightly faster tempo and actually a slightly different arrangement in fact- Barney comes back in with more vocals towards the end of the mix whereas the Technique version the last few minutes are all instrumental
Exactly what I was trying to say - it would seem that all those who "think" they've heard Run2 haven't, as the version on "The Best Of" isn't Run2! :p
Nick King wrote:
johnny wrote: But anybody who can't hear the difference between the version on Technique and the version on the 12" (not the crappy break beat mix but the version that's on the video) needs their ears testing!!! .Different drum sound, slightly lighter feel , slightly faster tempo and actually a slightly different arrangement in fact- Barney comes back in with more vocals towards the end of the mix whereas the Technique version the last few minutes are all instrumental
Exactly what I was trying to say - it would seem that all those who "think" they've heard Run2 haven't, as the version on "The Best Of" isn't Run2! :p
Yeah , i think this the problem
johnny wrote: Well if you're talking about Run on Technique and Run 2 as featured on The Best Of you won't hear any difference!! It's the exact same mix. But anybody who can't hear the difference between the version on Technique and the version on the 12" (not the crappy break beat mix but the version that's on the video) needs their ears testing!!! .Different drum sound, slightly lighter feel , slightly faster tempo and actually a slightly different arrangement in fact- Barney comes back in with more vocals towards the end of the mix whereas the Technique version the last few minutes are all instrumental
I don't think I ever heard the 12", but the video is Run 2 right? Run 2 is also available on neworderonline.com. So yes, I've heard the actual Run 2.
What I still don't get is why Run is ok to be released, but not Run 2? Is Run missing the Leaving on a Jet Plane riff or something?
Canuck21 wrote:
johnny wrote: Well if you're talking about Run on Technique and Run 2 as featured on The Best Of you won't hear any difference!! It's the exact same mix. But anybody who can't hear the difference between the version on Technique and the version on the 12" (not the crappy break beat mix but the version that's on the video) needs their ears testing!!! .Different drum sound, slightly lighter feel , slightly faster tempo and actually a slightly different arrangement in fact- Barney comes back in with more vocals towards the end of the mix whereas the Technique version the last few minutes are all instrumental
I don't think I ever heard the 12", but the video is Run 2 right? Run 2 is also available on neworderonline.com. So yes, I've heard the actual Run 2.
What I still don't get is why Run is ok to be released, but not Run 2? Is Run missing the Leaving on a Jet Plane riff or something?
Yer not missing anything with the 12" crap beat box mix but yeah the version on the video is Run2.
As for why Run is ok to be released and not Run2 i don't know mate.Of course it was simple to not release Run2 again as it was only ever releassd on the limited edition 12" (and a few rare 7" ? ) A bit harder to take Run off Technique i guess!
Part of the settlement with Denver's lawyers was that Run2 would never be subsequently reissued.
There is a story that the Run2/MTO master tapes were rendered unusable in an 'accident' at Factory HQ around the same time as the hearing...
Still the offending guitar riff is on Run as well, so I dunno. As I said before I once recognized Leaving on a Jet Plane, played by a cover band merely by said riff and I had never heard that song before. So I guess we were lucky that Run as whole didn't fall in that settlement.
BTW I love Run and Run 2.
I think the deal was that they would not profit directly from "Run" as a single. Have you ever wonder if Bernard had John Denver "whacked"? That the "acccident" was not so accident? Bernard is a bad mutherfucker to mess wit.
"Run 2" = "Run to"... ?
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..." from Run with "I'm leaving on a jet plane, don't know when I'll be back again" from LOAJP then you should be able to hear similarities in the underlying melody.
That's the only similarity I'm aware of. Many have got away with tunes that bear much more of a resemblance to something already written...
No matter how people explain it to me, I really don't see any difference. Are the notes the same?
Anyway, John Denver was no longer earning much money on 89, that is why he decided to sue the order.
Indeed*!*
BIGINOIL wrote: The case was a load of shit. The only good thing about it was that John Denver won a load of money in the case, bought himself an aeroplane and killed himself with it.
The dick.
BIGINOIL wrote:
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
oh for fucks sake, its 'dont get a time like this' !!
BIGINOIL wrote:
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
...so it is...
Oops...
redken wrote:
BIGINOIL wrote:
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
oh for fucks sake, its 'dont get a time like this' !!
Should be "don't get a tune like this for nothing", as, indeed, they didn't.
If you slow down Run, you can defo notice the link with Leaving On A Jet Plane.
But obviously, this is pure coincidence, and is nothing compared to most hip-hop tracks these days.
apologies for the unwieldy size of the screen grab
hopefully, the structural differences are easier to take in visually.
soundwise, the re-recording (?) is less 'rocky' with thinner drums and less emphasis on the guitars especially the rawer guitar solos and the end refrain.
did anyone else notice that 'take me home: the john denver story' was on telly over the weekend? in the style of Viz's 'news order'.... "no members of new order were involved"
I don't think Run 2 sounds anything like John Denver's songs...I'm surprised they let the bastard win the case against them.
Make your own minds up. Frankly I don't hear the resemblance anymore, but now I like this bloody song. 
Pash wrote:
BIGINOIL wrote:
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
...so it is...
Oops...
I hear "tan". It also makes the most sense, not that that should be a determining factor when examining Bernard's lyrics.
It's been 10 years since Denver crashed off the coast here. A small stretch a few blocks from my home was named John Denver Beach in memorial. It's not one of the bigger tourism draws.
The fact that most of you seem unable to hear this glaring simillarity is quite interesting. If this is the reality of the depth of musical appreciation held by the average, normal, non-muso, is it any fucking wonder they sell people the same records every year.
Me neither...
Although Mr Denver was strapped for cash, in a middle of a divorce case, and out of a record deal in 1989... :p
Doctor? wrote: The fact that most of you seem unable to hear this glaring simillarity is quite interesting. If this is the reality of the depth of musical appreciation held by the average, normal, non-muso, is it any fucking wonder they sell people the same records every year.
in fairness, I wouldn't say it's 'glaring' in my head, I could only remember the chorus melody and kept going into the verse and bridge of 'rhinestone cowboy' when I was trying to work out the similarity. I don't have any john denver in my music collection so I had a sneak peak of the snippets on iTunes and think it's even less like 'run' than rhinestone cowboy was. I think the reason most people are struggling to hear the similarity is that it seems to be in the chord structure rather than the vocal melody. both songs have a simple key going around a three chord loop and there's going to be points where the same note lands over the same chord, and if you took the vocals off 'jet plane' you could probably comfortably sing 'run' over the top. but as chord structures go you can do that with about half of new order's work. eg AIIWIW is the same shape as run and jetplane too. litigation-wise, I think NO were quite lucky considering the decision, once made, went against them. to get away with suppressing just the (poor) single version of the track seems quite fortunate.
Next thing we'll know it that everybody who ever rhymed dark and park, etc before Barney did, will have a go as well.
I'm obviously one of those musical illiterates. Though I do sort of see that one could segue into Run after the 'hold me like you'll never let me go' bit.
But its not as much like Run as that Elastica song was an amazingly blatant rip-off of the Stranglers 'No More Heroes' (how did they expect to get away with that?), nor as much as Thea Gilmore's Heartstring Blues sounds like Love Vigilantes.
Andy wrote:
Pash wrote:
BIGINOIL wrote:
Pash wrote: If you compare "Well you don't get a tan like this for nothing..."
Don't you mean "Don't get a town like this..."?
...so it is...
Oops...
I hear "tan". It also makes the most sense, not that that should be a determining factor when examining Bernard's lyrics.
It's been 10 years since Denver crashed off the coast here. A small stretch a few blocks from my home was named John Denver Beach in memorial. It's not one of the bigger tourism draws.
It's "TIME" !!
We've had more threads on this than on whether they are playing the US any time in the next five centuries......
The definitive version is that on the AppleMac that the band used to write these songs, the lyric was listed as "tan". Bernard himself had typed it in, and as the songwriter you'd think he might know, especially back in 1988 when his brain wasn't full of E holes.
oldmonkey wrote: We've had more threads on this than on whether they are playing the US any time in the next five centuries......
The definitive version is that on the AppleMac that the band used to write these songs, the lyric was listed as "tan". Bernard himself had typed it in, and as the songwriter you'd think he might know, especially back in 1988 when his brain wasn't full of E holes.
What's this AppleMac you refer to? Any other lyrical controversies settled by this thing?
Can notice a similarity in the first verse of Leaving On A Jet Plane but it's not as obvious as i remember for some reason.I recall Annie Nightingale playing both tracks on her show when the case came to light and they sounded way more similar at the time
And another vote for TAN here Always heard TAN and it's TAN in the New Order sheet music song book thingy "X"
As in you don't get a TAN i.e. a holiday for nothing
Facsimile wrote:
One for the visual learners...
Can we have Leaving On A Jet Plane in a reggae-style at the Festive 50 please...
Snorri xxx
Doctor? wrote: The fact that most of you seem unable to hear this glaring simillarity is quite interesting. If this is the reality of the depth of musical appreciation held by the average, normal, non-muso, is it any fucking wonder they sell people the same records every year.
So do you think that New Order intentionally ripped off John Denver's song?
Is there any evidence at all that New Order had Denver's tune in mind when writing "Run"?????????? As stated in a previous post, many bands have gotten away with much more. Just look at all of The Cure's "borrowing" of JD/NO material (Keep your shorts on folks, I love The Cure as much as you do) :)
Canuck21 wrote: So do you think that New Order intentionally ripped off John Denver's song?
Moreover, any infromation on the "settlement" thing? Did NO quickly ask for a settlement? Did they admit it and are guilty?
Indeed?
"My mind is going... There is no question about..." I've just realised which song I'm always reminded of when I hear that Denver track - Buzzcocks, Ever Fallen In Love... Someone explain that, or it's off to the loony in for me... 
Snorri xxx
