Six-String Shergold Serenades?

I'm sure this must have been discussed before, but I can't find it. I'm trying to come up with a list of all the songs Hooky played his six-string bass on. So far I have:

1963 24 Hours As It Is When It Was Blue Monday Chosen Time Cries and Whispers Dreams Never End Elegia Fine Time Let's Go Heart & Soul Hurt In a Lonely Place Lonesome Tonight Paradise Passover Procession State of the Nation Subculture This Time of Night Your Silent Face

Any errors or omissions? Some of these don't require the top two strings, as far as I can tell, so it's possible he just used the Shergold live because it was easier than switching guitars.

I'm pretty sure that the following can be played on 4 string (on a 24 fret at least, but the eccleshall is 22 fret) 24 hrs aiiwiw fine time paradise tton ysf

not sure about 1963, the original is prob 4 string, don't know about the 94 remix, which to me is much better, as it has miles more hooky, but then arthur baker knows hoe to produce hookys bass, stephen hague hasn't a clue, hence hardly any hooky on republic.

1963 24 Hours As It Is When It Was Blue Monday Chosen Time Cries and Whispers Dreams Never End Elegia Fine Time Let's Go Heart & Soul Hurt In a Lonely Place Lonesome Tonight Paradise Passover Procession State of the Nation Subculture This Time of Night Your Silent Face

NOT:

24 Hours Lonesome Tonight Fine Time

ADD:

We All Stand Denial

just looking at that bunch of songs, can't help you out much. What diversified songs that bunch had!!!

Jed Stephens wrote: I'm pretty sure that the following can be played on 4 string (on a 24 fret at least, but the eccleshall is 22 fret) 24 hrs aiiwiw fine time paradise tton ysf

not sure about 1963, the original is prob 4 string, don't know about the 94 remix, which to me is much better, as it has miles more hooky, but then arthur baker knows hoe to produce hookys bass, stephen hague hasn't a clue, hence hardly any hooky on republic.

Not SURE about paradise. But there's a couple of others there that could JUST be played on a long 4 string. But then, it sounds different playing on a G string at the 24th fret from playing on a high e at the 15th.

I don't think Hooky has a 24-fret 4-string.

Paradise I got from a post on here, so it could be wrong, but I thought you lot were infallible! I sure don't remember the playlists of concerts I saw back in the 80s.

24 Hours I've heard mentioned more than once as one of the first Shergold songs, but maybe not, I think those people may have been guessing.

AIIWIW, TTON, and YSF seem playable on a four - I started playing them that way (though I may have missed some stuff on AIIWIW) - but he uses the Shergold live (see PFD, Reading 98, Finsbury Park 02). TTON surprised me; it's possible he picks up the Shergold just because Blue Monday is next, but he doesn't seem to mind switching.

Fine Time is on the Shergold on TOTP, which may or may not count for anything. I thought I had another mention of it somewhere, but I don't remember where.

Lonesome Tonight is on the four (Hacienda 83). Hard to tell, but looks like the ill-fated Gibson - wouldn't have expected it to sound so bright. I think that was a guess (based on the sound of the higher parts) that got left on by mistake. Wishful thinking, maybe!

1963 is Shergold per Stephen Hague (SOS article).

Should maybe have kept my sources, but I'm just not anal enough.

I'll add We All Stand and Denial.

Thanks guys!

Fine Time is on the Shergold on TOTP, which may or may not count for anything. I thought I had another mention of it somewhere, but I don't remember where.

He used that 5 string Musicman on TOTP

johnny james wrote:

Fine Time is on the Shergold on TOTP, which may or may not count for anything. I thought I had another mention of it somewhere, but I don't remember where.

He used that 5 string Musicman on TOTP

Hey, you're right! The video quality is crap so I made out the maple fretboard and just figured it for the Shergold, but it's definitely the 5-string headstock.

I didn't realize he'd picked that one up that early - I thought it came in with Revenge. I wonder how he has it tuned - I suppose it could be BEADG, but I've never heard a low B from New Order (not on Fine Time, certainly) so I'd guess EADGB...

Thanks for the catch, Johnny.

He probably plays the Shergold on some tunes purely for it's tone rather than it's range, it does sound a bit unique even in the standard range.

How about The Village?

Doctor? wrote:

Not SURE about paradise. But there's a couple of others there that could JUST be played on a long 4 string. But then, it sounds different playing on a G string at the 24th fret from playing on a high e at the 15th.

you're right, i've been having a go tonight, it's deffo 6 string.

Is The Him played on a six string bass ?

Revised:

1963 As It Is When It Was Blue Monday Chosen Time Cries and Whispers Denial Dreams Never End Elegia Let's Go Heart & Soul Hurt In a Lonely Place Paradise Passover Procession State of the Nation Subculture This Time of Night We All Stand Your Silent Face

Another one I missed: Sedona (Monaco)

Possibly at least one other from Monaco; I'm guessing he didn't use the Shergold much with Revenge.

5 string: Fine Time

Definitely not: Lonesome Tonight 24 Hours

Looks like The Village is on the four: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmVGEekZLiE

The Him sounds like it could be the Shergold. I'll have another listen when I get home.

There's no need to use the Shergold for 'The Him', though we'll know for sure when the DVD comes out since it's on there (first footage I'll have seen of them playing it).

Gotta be 6 on sedona, fantastic tune

Did Hooky buy his first six string bass after the Joy Division European tour (i.e. late January 1980)? The first picture I ever saw of him with a six string bass was at ULU in February 1980.

JOY DIVISION:

Passover The Eternal Heart and soul Komakino (I'm sure there's 6ix string bass overdubs on this. I'll have to give it another listen.)

A means to an end. (I'm not convinced it is the Shergold, but the string spacing would make it easier to play and there's something about the tone of it that makes me think it could be)

NEW ORDER:

Procession Cries and whispers Hurt In a lonely place Dreams never end Chosen time Doubts even here The Him Denial We all stand Your silent face Ecstasy Blue Monday This time of night Elegia Subculture Let's go State of the nation Shellshock Paradise As it is when it was 1963 Fine time Don't do it Spooky

REVENGE

Slave Bleachman 14k Cloud 9 State of shock

MONACO

Sedona Sweetlips Billy bones Black rain I'm sure i've missed a couple, but can't think of them...

Add World in Motion to the list...

Hooky's use of open strings on the Shergold means it's nigh on impossible to play Dreams Never End or Denial (and probably some others) on a 4 string without missing out some of the notes (the Boston recording where he uses a 4 string bass for DNE being an example).

I think the first mention of it came in a review of JD's Paris gig in December 79...it's visible in some of Phillipe Carly's pics taken at Plan K in January 80.

Chris Nash wrote: It may be a simplistic answer, but ALL New Order, JD, Monaco and Revenge songs can be played on a simple long scale four string with appropriate effects pedals.

As to where Hooky played different basses, I'd have to check again. I have a feeling there are more than those listed, though I'd bow to Ian's superior knowledge, although it's a great excuse to watch a few more videos/DVDs :)

Simply depends on how 'accurate' one wants the sound to be.

I would imagine most non-musos would find it hard to tell the difference if the bass player set things up correctly.

It's worth referring to the recent posted interview with Hooky where he says he avoids using certain equipment in the studio due to tonal ranges, etc. and only uses them live, so there's another consideration.

If by appropriate effects, you mean pitch shifters, then really you're better off shifting a 6 string guitar down an octave than trying to shift anything from a bass.....munchkin bass sounds vile.

I knew Ian would have a good list.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Philip Collins wrote: Add World in Motion to the list...

Hooky's use of open strings on the Shergold means it's nigh on impossible to play Dreams Never End or Denial (and probably some others) on a 4 string without missing out some of the notes (the Boston recording where he uses a 4 string bass for DNE being an example).

I think the first mention of it came in a review of JD's Paris gig in December 79...it's visible in some of Phillipe Carly's pics taken at Plan K in January 80.

additionally, there are some songs that use a combination of strings (musos might call them 'chords'). the bridge on 'this time of night' for example: because it's played using the two strings not available to 4string bassists it would be fairly hard to approximate on the traditional bass. there may well be more... I'd assumed that it was a guitar part until I saw H6SB replicate it perfectly on the shergold. my gist being, the choice between 4 & 6 string basses is not an arbitrary one.

Hunh, I'd always assumed that was guitar too. Cool.

Time to watch Pumped Full of Drugs again...

Chase wrote: Hunh, I'd always assumed that was guitar too. Cool.

Time to watch Pumped Full of Drugs again...

There's a sampled guitar going "bzzzt" in there too, it's REALLY loud on some versions and inaudible in others. When it's quiet you can clearly hear Hooky playing a great big bass chord.

Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I think if you say it's on a six string, we'll all agree, I'd love to see a little video of you playing the bridge from this time of night, I must be playing it totally wrong!

BTW do you want to flog one of your six strings?

Jed Stephens wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I think if you say it's on a six string, we'll all agree, I'd love to see a little video of you playing the bridge from this time of night, I must be playing it totally wrong!

BTW do you want to flog one of your six strings?

hmmmm i could sort a little clip out.... failing that photos....

Sell one of my 6ix strings... Never!! It would be like losing one of my bollocks!!!!!!!!!!! I've had them so long they're a part of me

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I guess it's possible though not essential for this to be a 6 stringer. I thought we'd find out when Hurrah's surfaced on video, but they didn't play it!

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I think if you say it's on a six string, we'll all agree, I'd love to see a little video of you playing the bridge from this time of night, I must be playing it totally wrong!

BTW do you want to flog one of your six strings?

hmmmm i could sort a little clip out.... failing that photos....

Sell one of my 6ix strings... Never!! It would be like losing one of my bollocks!!!!!!!!!!! I've had them so long they're a part of me

What you usin for strings? Often considered buying a more modren 1 low 1 high 6 string, then restringing and reseting it to be tuned like a Shergold or Gender 6.

Doctor? wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote:

Jed Stephens wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I think if you say it's on a six string, we'll all agree, I'd love to see a little video of you playing the bridge from this time of night, I must be playing it totally wrong!

BTW do you want to flog one of your six strings?

hmmmm i could sort a little clip out.... failing that photos....

Sell one of my 6ix strings... Never!! It would be like losing one of my bollocks!!!!!!!!!!! I've had them so long they're a part of me

What you usin for strings? Often considered buying a more modren 1 low 1 high 6 string, then restringing and reseting it to be tuned like a Shergold or Gender 6.

I've always used Elites and on occasion Rotosound. Having said that though i've got Rotosounds on my red Yamaha BB1200s because the set of Elites i've got on my black BB 1200s sound really shit,really tinny. Must of got a dud batch!! The Shergolds have elites on at the mo...

johnny james wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I guess it's possible though not essential for this to be a 6 stringer. I thought we'd find out when Hurrah's surfaced on video, but they didn't play it!

Possibly didn't play it because they didn't have the 6 string and it can only be played on that? Not like they had a huge pool of songs to choose from!

Doctor? wrote:

Often considered buying a more modren 1 low 1 high 6 string, then restringing and reseting it to be tuned like a Shergold or Gender 6.

How big a job is it to do that, I've been toying with the idea of a yamaha trb 1006 and doing the same, but my luthier skills are non existent.

Jed Stephens wrote:

Doctor? wrote:

Often considered buying a more modren 1 low 1 high 6 string, then restringing and reseting it to be tuned like a Shergold or Gender 6.

How big a job is it to do that, I've been toying with the idea of a yamaha trb 1006 and doing the same, but my luthier skills are non existent.

Just a case of putting the strings on and sorting the intonation out. Great bass, those humbuckers will make it growl!!!!

did hooky ever play his shergold on Novelty? I love the bass lines on that song. There's like 3 different lyrical versions of Novelty I have heard so far. One live, two diff recorded versions.

Tim wrote:

johnny james wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I guess it's possible though not essential for this to be a 6 stringer. I thought we'd find out when Hurrah's surfaced on video, but they didn't play it!

Possibly didn't play it because they didn't have the 6 string and it can only be played on that? Not like they had a huge pool of songs to choose from!

..thing is, it's easy to play on a 4 string. Unlike DNE.

johnny james wrote:

Tim wrote:

johnny james wrote:

Hooky's Six String Bass wrote: Add Homage to the list (maybe) I've been listening to New order's Blackpool scamps gig and 'Homage' sounds really twangy to me.... Must admit i've been giving it some heavy rotation so could be a bit snow blind, but have a listen

I guess it's possible though not essential for this to be a 6 stringer. I thought we'd find out when Hurrah's surfaced on video, but they didn't play it!

Possibly didn't play it because they didn't have the 6 string and it can only be played on that? Not like they had a huge pool of songs to choose from!

..thing is, it's easy to play on a 4 string. Unlike DNE.

Also Homage was played on a 4 string bass at Boston and doesn't sound too different from Blackpool or Western Works (unlike DNE)

Does make you wonder why they left it out though, not like they had a huge pool of songs to choose from at that stage, they barely had half an hour of material.

Homage, A Means To An End and The Eternal all confirmed as being played on 6 string. By the bloke who was playing them.

Good job Tim, thanks.

Add Angel dust to the list.... knew i'd missed one.