Release Date:22/10/2008

Movement (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Ceremony
2. Temptation
3. In A Lonley Place
4. EGG
5. Procession
6. Mesh
7. Hurt (WPCR13166)

PC&L (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Blue Monday
2. The Beach
3. Confusion
4. Thieves Like Us
5. Lonesome Tonight
6. Murder
7. Thieves Like Us (Inst.) (WPCR13168)

Low-Life (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. The Perfect Kiss
2. Sub-Culture
3. Shellshock
4. State of the Nation
5. Elegia
6. Let's Go
7. Salvation Theme (WPCR13170)

Brotherhood (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. BLT
2. 1963
3. True Faith
4. Touched by the Hand of God
5. Blue Monday 88
6. Evil Dust
7. True Dub (WPCR13172)

Technique (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Don't Do It
2. Fine Line
3. Round & Round
4. Best & Marsh
5. World in Motion
6. Run 2
7. MTO
8. Vanishing Point (Inst.)
9. Fine Time (WPCR13174)

Hmmm....

Not many demos by the sounds of it, just purely b-sides and remixes...

Ah well, we'll see when the versions/track times are revealed...

Imperfect collector's edition again? The unHappy One...

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Imperfect collector's edition again?

Looks like it, unless some of the versions are demos (which I doubt it)...

(Although, Run2/MTO/True Dub are included, so I guess it's not all that bad)...

:dead:

I'd want to know if Mesh is actually Mesh or Cries and Whispers and what happened to Beach Buggy. Strangely, I got a bootleg CD-R from ebay with B-sides from 1981 to 2003.

Ofcourse, in time, I also want to know if the Japanese discs are similar to the European ones (London Records).

Hoping for the REAL 7 inch versions on most of them, except for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture and Shellshock. those 3 HAS TO BE the 12" versions.

Tracklists look nice, although a bit thin, Technique looks the best/most complete in my humble opinion. Glad that Run2 and MTO finally going to be included.

What we're missing is, for example:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

Or maybe I'm too picky ...

:)

Very disappointing. I will need to hear it to see how much better it sounds.

Run2 my butt, how many times have they put down run2 only to let us down.

Turn Jim wrote: Very disappointing. I will need to hear it to see how much better it sounds.

Run2 my butt, how many times have they put down run2 only to let us down.

Yes indeed - that's my conclusion...

Let's hope Hooky and Steve know the demand for the definitive versions, I'm still waiting for the 200 plus versions of Blue Monday in some super fantastical box set.

Lucas Lefel wrote: Ofcourse, in time, I also want to know if the Japanese discs are similar to the European ones (London Records).

A tenner says that they're the same! :)

Lucas Lefel wrote: What we're missing is, for example:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

Or maybe I'm too picky ...

The Happy One MTO (Minus Mix) Run 2 (Extended Version) and more...

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Release Date:22/10/2008

Movement (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Ceremony
2. Temptation
3. In A Lonley Place
4. EGG
5. Procession
6. Mesh
7. Hurt (WPCR13166)

PC&L (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Blue Monday
2. The Beach
3. Confusion
4. Thieves Like Us
5. Lonesome Tonight
6. Murder
7. Thieves Like Us (Inst.) (WPCR13168)

Low-Life (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. The Perfect Kiss
2. Sub-Culture
3. Shellshock
4. State of the Nation
5. Elegia
6. Let's Go (WPCR13170)

Brotherhood (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. BLT
2. 1963
3. True Faith
4. Touched by the Hand of God
5. Blue Monday 88
6. Evil Dust
7. True Dub (WPCR13172)

Technique (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Don't Do It
2. Fine Line
3. Round & Round
4. Best & Marsh
5. World in Motion
6. Run 2
7. MTO
8. Vanishing Point (Inst.)
9. Fine Time (WPCR13174)

wow! thats it! :( nothing special, so it seems...

it looks like most of the tracks are available on either album or single b-side tracks. i kind of expect something more, but i guess not. a bit disapppointed.

or maybe this is just the japanese release. what about the us release? doesn't usually us releases are different from others? i guess we'll see...

Those are some really bad extra discs then...If that is really what's coming out a lot of people will either wait for the single disc remasters or skip em all together.

No hidden track.

Lucas Lefel wrote: Ofcourse, in time, I also want to know if the Japanese discs are similar to the European ones (London Records).

Hoping for the REAL 7 inch versions on most of them, except for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture and Shellshock. those 3 HAS TO BE the 12" versions.

Tracklists look nice, although a bit thin, Technique looks the best/most complete in my humble opinion. Glad that Run2 and MTO finally going to be included.

What we're missing is, for example:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

Or maybe I'm too picky ...

:)

It seems rather odd not to include these. If they don't turn up in digital format here, where else can they possibly turn up?

The only potential rarity could be 'Let's Go' though I'm betting on it being the 90s version.

Well, if thats the track listing, I dont think there is anything on any of thoses discs that most people dont have already and they probably will struggle to sell many copies...

Disappointed....

On a further note, if these listings are correct, there is even less runtime used on the bonus discs than on the original albulms, and some of those are pretty short...

This is fucking shit!!!

I've had it with these fuckers

Oh well... I just hope the packaging is as good as the JD remasters, otherwise it's useless!

Disappointing but I don't know what else we could have expected really - unless there is some mythical treasure trove of rarities that escaped everyone's attention. Everything they have released many/most of us would have anyway. Excerpts from Recycle covers a fair bit of the leftovers. What else is there? Demos might have been interesting though having heard a few over the years I won't be losing any sleep.

Which begs the question - just who will they be marketing this towards? The remasters better be bloody good...

I've got all of these and have had for fookin' years! Ah come on, not another disappointment please...

Lucas Lefel wrote: Ofcourse, in time, I also want to know if the Japanese discs are similar to the European ones (London Records).

Hoping for the REAL 7 inch versions on most of them, except for The Perfect Kiss, Subculture and Shellshock. those 3 HAS TO BE the 12" versions.

Tracklists look nice, although a bit thin, Technique looks the best/most complete in my humble opinion. Glad that Run2 and MTO finally going to be included.

What we're missing is, for example:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

Or maybe I'm too picky ...

:)

I'll be really annoyed if this bonus disc does not include the whole of the FAC93 Confusion 12". I'm sure there would have been room on the disc. This has been one of my favourite New Order 12" singles over the years (and never released properly on CD). The vinyl used to sound great - I wonder what chance there is any of the CDs sounding any where near as good? (the words "fat" and "chance" spring to mind). Would have been a fun extra to have had the Xmas flexi on PCL as well.

Those second discs don't look nearly full, maybe 40 min. of music on each, though I don't have running times in front of me to make sure. Would be nice if that extra space (?) were used for something more surprising.

I hope it's the version of In A Lonely Place that's never made it to CD. Doubtful though, Just churning the same old shit out over again. I doubt I'll be buying these.

I'm torn as to whether I should buy these or not. On the plus side it would help my DJ gig, though.

I wanted more, so much more. Everybody on this board will have most or all of the "extras". just relase the 7 tracks from the wftsc album so we can rest in peace.

If those are the same for every region release, then im scared to see what the london years albums will have.

Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

I'm assuming that non-Japanese releases won't be any more comprehensive.

Makes you wonder quite what they were trying to achieve with these extra discs. With 70+ minutes available, why not put on ALL the singles tracks that match the respective albums (e.g. both "Ceremony" versions, 7" & 12" of "Temptation")?

I'm trying to think of potential reasons why some tracks are missing:

1. Couldn't be bothered. That would be a pathetic excuse.
2. Couldn't find the original tapes. Unlikely?
3. Quality control. One or more members disliked something, so it was left off.

Assuming a decent job of the remastering and comprehensive bonus disc, I just might have bought all of these. As it stands I won't buy any, although I might download a few tracks from the "Technique" era if they appear on iTunes etc.

Peter

Wow, from the same band that brought you the undefinitive box set comes bonus discs with no bonus material. If those really are the tracklistings, then that is a pretty piss poor effort.

So simple. i wouldn't buy any of them :\ohwell:

Agree with Adam Tate. For example, there is enough disc space to include the whole FAC93 and not just one version of the original versions of Confusion.

Also I think that if you only use about 40 minutes of disc space for the bonus disc (which is half the length of a CD) than that's absolutely NOT ENOUGH to provide your fans with all the extras we so desperately need after ALL THESE YEARS. Remember that we waited SO LONG for this to finally happen ... This time is HAS to be done properly and don't exclude anything that wasn't released before (like for example The Happy One from the Technique-era).

So London Records: Use the space well and include b-sides, 7 inch and 12 inch versions please.

Finally, I like to mention the way the Thompson Twins Deluxe 2-CD Editions were done this year: A double CD set of A Product Of... + Set (1981, 1982) (out in early september), a double CD set of Quick Step & Side Kick (1983) (already released) with ALL the cassette remixes, 12 inch mixes & b-sides, a double CD set of Into The Gap (1984) (already released) with ALL the cassette remixes, 12 inch mixes & b-sides PLUS finally a double CD set of Here's To Future Days (1985) (just released) with ALL the cassette remixes, 12 inch mixes & b-sides.

Keep this in mind if you (want to) "lay your hands" to a proper New Order reissue/remaster, and don't be concerned about the artwork ONLY ... please?!?!?!

Regards Lucas

as long as they are reasonably priced, and re mastered clear enough and load enough to drown out the screaming brats on the bus on the way to work then I'll just treat the bonus disc as it is, a BONUS disc which should be at no extra cost!

I have no words to say how disappointing that is

Given the excellent second Glasgow DVD disc and the encouraging comments received from Steve ("I was talking to Hooky a couple of weeks ago, and he's found some old tapes for the extra tracks. We're all getting involved in hunting down unreleased stuff.") I'm still hoping that the bonus CDs will feature at least something for the fans...

Pash wrote: Given the excellent second Glasgow DVD disc and the encouraging comments received from Steve ("I was talking to Hooky a couple of weeks ago, and he's found some old tapes for the extra tracks. We're all getting involved in hunting down unreleased stuff.") I'm still hoping that the bonus CDs will feature at least something for the fans...

That's it!

To who do they expect to sell these cds if not to the fans who already have all of these tracks?

That's it! How many times 'Substance' tracks will be re-packaged here and there? I can make these Disc 2 compilations on my own using 'Retro' & 'Substance' & bunch of mp3s.

I didn't buy the Joy Division re-issues, because the sound of Centredate releases was just fine for me, no need to hear bad quality live discs.

So, if this is the final tracklisting, this release is really for the crazy chosen only; I won't buy it. The question is, they can't even make money out of it, what's the point???

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, but if anybody associated with the band or record label are listening, all the fans want are bonus discs that provide complete collections of all released material including all tracks from associated 12"s, 7"s, soundtrack appearances (Salvation, Peter Saville show), and stuff released on the boxset rarities disc. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy. Judging from the comments on this board, I'm sensing that this is the band's last chance to save credibility with the fans. Perhaps Tim could confirm or deny if the above tracklistings are correct?

Danimal wrote:

Perhaps Tim could confirm or deny if the above tracklistings are correct?

He actually set high expectaions; alegidly there will be some genuanily rare stuff. Well, where's it?

I don't want to listen to Bizarre Love Triangle in 4 versions in the row - I can buy the CD single for that. When I think of rare stuff, it is remasatered Western Demos, Temptation demo, Peel Sessions 82 alternative versions, Technique full demos, undubbed Republic tracks (where we can hear real guitar & bass) and so on. Not B-sides that I can hear on my Substance second disc.

What a major fookin' disappointment & waste of time.No need to repeat what has mostly already been said,But Warners & the people responsible for these,have obviously not got a fookin' clue & obviously do not take any notice of what gets posted on here,you know,the NEW ORDER fookin' website.&,I'm sorry for this,what about Tims' so-called 'it will be worth waiting for'? If these are indeed the 'extras',it's just another example of a fookin' blatant piss-take & rip-off,an insult to us all & a laughing stock compared to The Cure & Bunnymen re-issues.Whoever is responsible has obviously not got a fookin'clue.Oh great,remasters,thanks.For fuck all.So far wide of the mark,you can't see it

Danimal wrote: I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, but if anybody associated with the band or record label are listening, all the fans want are bonus discs that provide complete collections of all released material including all tracks from associated 12"s, 7"s, soundtrack appearances (Salvation, Peter Saville show), and stuff released on the boxset rarities disc. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy. Judging from the comments on this board, I'm sensing that this is the band's last chance to save credibility with the fans. Perhaps Tim could confirm or deny if the above tracklistings are correct?

???????????????????????????????????

Amazon Japan (same as HMV Japan tracklistings):\ohwell:

what were you expecting? Unreleased songs? They don't exist (except for the WTFSC tracks). Shitty demoes? Nobody needs them, I already hate them on the LTM reissues. Most people seem to forget that New Order have released anything they ever made, they were never a band like The Cure that made (mostly) crappy b-side songs just for the sake of it. I just would be glad if I get great remastered albums with the Perfect Kiss, Hurt and Shellshock FULL 12" versions. That's what we asked for in the beginning. All that complaining from people who already have everything is hilarious.

Max

I like a NEW ORDER flashWIPE or some GILLAIN wigs.The rest i OWN or have made.:D

So you're saying that all of you have Mesh on CD? I've been dying to get a copy but it would cost me way too much. Finally I will be able to get it.

kel wrote:

Danimal wrote: I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, but if anybody associated with the band or record label are listening, all the fans want are bonus discs that provide complete collections of all released material including all tracks from associated 12"s, 7"s, soundtrack appearances (Salvation, Peter Saville show), and stuff released on the boxset rarities disc. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy. Judging from the comments on this board, I'm sensing that this is the band's last chance to save credibility with the fans. Perhaps Tim could confirm or deny if the above tracklistings are correct?

???????????????????????????????????

In an interview Peter Hook gave after the breakup, he stated that he wanted to release one or more boxed sets containing much of the material you're looking for. My impression (probably an incorrect one) was that the remasters would gather together all of the released material (similar to the Pet Shop Boys remasters), much of which has never before been released on CD, while the unreleased stuff would surface on one or more boxed sets.

Canuck21 wrote: So you're saying that all of you have Mesh on CD? I've been dying to get a copy but it would cost me way too much. Finally I will be able to get it.

Isn't it on Canadian Cd-single Everything' Gone Green, released in 1990? Or was it 1981-82 EP.

Shite - why miss so much out when there's so much space left on the discs? Where is Cries & Whispers for a start? I haven't done the maths - but it even looks like some of these could fit on one disc.

These should have been "definitive" - with all the singles, b-sides and non-album tracks. If the tracklistings are correct, I'd rather spend my money on the original vinyl and master them myself!

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

Canuck21 wrote: So you're saying that all of you have Mesh on CD? I've been dying to get a copy but it would cost me way too much. Finally I will be able to get it.

Isn't it on Canadian Cd-single Everything' Gone Green, released in 1990? Or was it 1981-82 EP.

I saw it on eBay last night - an Austrian CD single for Everything's Gone Green.

Danimal wrote:

kel wrote:

Danimal wrote: I'm not going to jump to any conclusions, but if anybody associated with the band or record label are listening, all the fans want are bonus discs that provide complete collections of all released material including all tracks from associated 12"s, 7"s, soundtrack appearances (Salvation, Peter Saville show), and stuff released on the boxset rarities disc. That's it. Anything beyond that is gravy. Judging from the comments on this board, I'm sensing that this is the band's last chance to save credibility with the fans. Perhaps Tim could confirm or deny if the above tracklistings are correct?

???????????????????????????????????

In an interview Peter Hook gave after the breakup, he stated that he wanted to release one or more boxed sets containing much of the material you're looking for. My impression (probably an incorrect one) was that the remasters would gather together all of the released material (similar to the Pet Shop Boys remasters), much of which has never before been released on CD, while the unreleased stuff would surface on one or more boxed sets.

Why?

The opportunity to do this is here & now.There isn't enough material to make up what will be a needless,overpriced box set,seperate from these,& the tracks that most people are complaining about are what....maybe 3 songs,that are 12" versions not previously released on cd? You mean to tell me,space can't be found for 3 fookin' songs lasting 25 minutes?! I just don't need another cd with definative 7" & 12" versions,we've had most of them,& just because it puts them all together with their relevant albums.So fookin' what,I can do that myself.My point,& a lot of other peoples',is it smacks of rip-off,safe & pointless,but mostly,damn disappointing

joe davola wrote: what were you expecting? Unreleased songs? They don't exist (except for the WTFSC tracks). Shitty demoes? Nobody needs them, I already hate them on the LTM reissues. Most people seem to forget that New Order have released anything they ever made, they were never a band like The Cure that made (mostly) crappy b-side songs just for the sake of it. I just would be glad if I get great remastered albums with the Perfect Kiss, Hurt and Shellshock FULL 12" versions. That's what we asked for in the beginning. All that complaining from people who already have everything is hilarious.

Max

You're points on unreleased songs & the fact that N.O. are not a Cure type band are correct,but it comes down to opinions.I,for one,have pretty much loved the LTM re-issues,James Nice does a great job,albiet a bit hit & miss,mainly hit,& I would definately prefer 'shitty' demos or the like as the extras,but if you just look at what we are supposedly getting,it's disappointing & plus the fact,there's only 7/8 songs on the 2nd cd when you can fit probably double that? It's poor

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

Nice one! Where will you be sharing this?

Kel, you said earlier today:

"I just don't need another CD with definitive 7" & 12" versions, we've had most of them".

I think this is absolutely NOT true. If you think that we've had Hurt, The Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Shellshock ... for instance because they're all appear on Substance 1987, it's not true. These were EDITS of the 12 inch versions. We never had the full ones, not even the real 7 inches (a couple of them appear since late 2005 on the Singles compilation but no Blue Monday, Confusion, Perfect Kiss, BLT, True Faith or Run2).

I'm not even talking about their B-sides (except for Hurt which was a B-side) 'cause they did never appear on CD yet and we want them also after all this time.

That's the reason WHY we finally want them so much now. What better moment can you think of than the album-remasters to put them on a 2nd disc?

It's about time or else they're wasted for good I'm afraid. I don't like the idea of another box set with rarities BECAUSE the record companies think there's not enough space on these 2nd discs or so: there IS enough space on each disc!

Or it has to be a singles box set which was Rob Gretton's idea 10 years ago (Recycle). But that's gonna cost too many for them they said ... so THAT will NEVER happen!!!

Adam Tate wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

Nice one! Where will you be sharing this?

I'll torrent it and also use megaupload.

Ryan wrote:

Adam Tate wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

Nice one! Where will you be sharing this?

I'll torrent it and also use megaupload.

God bless your charitable soul, may you find deliverance and many candies.

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

dude, you totally overpaid for this.. didn't you check the weeding forum, where people were already sharing it?

anyways, its worth having....and i still have never found out where that version of world (tony garcia radio mix) came from..

later -1

Jed Stephens wrote: as long as they are reasonably priced, and re mastered clear enough and load enough to drown out the screaming brats on the bus on the way to work then I'll just treat the bonus disc as it is, a BONUS disc which should be at no extra cost!

yeah, ok i, like all the collectors here have it already..

but i'll still buy all of them.. because they're remastered................wasn't that the point?

yeah, it would have been cool to have rare bonus tracks....

but to most people, THOSE ARE RARE bonus tracks..

just NOT TO US...

so , if YOU don't want them, don't buy them...

i can't wait to get them..

later -1

Personally, I would be thrilled to have all of the released material on the discs (much of which hads never been released on CD before in remastered form, or on CD at all for that matter). I agree with others that both discs are 80 minutes each, so why not fill them up with b-sides and different versions on disc 1 and other released stuff as well as rarities on disc two. However, at the very minimum they have to go to some effort to make these releases special. Let's face it, every other New Order reissue since Substance (and arguably the "fans made them do it" bonus disc on Retro has been an utter rip-off. Personally, I am going to send a polite message to Peter Hook via his Myspace page and let him know my feelings. I encourage Kel and all other interested parties to do the same. It is interesting that Tim has not weighed in...

Just sent a polite message to peter Hook via Myspace. I tried to represent everyone:

Hello Mr. Hook, To say that the fans on the Neworderonline.com forum have been looking forward to the New Order remasters would be an understatement. There has been tremendous disappointment with past New Order compilations, and because the band has ended, and also because of your outspoken commitment to insure quality for future New Order releases, hopes were really high that these reissues would offer fans something they've not had before. Some fans like myself, wanted remastered albums along with a complete issue of all associated 12", 7", b-side, soundtrack, and previously released tracks (such as the "Perfect Kiss" live video shoot, making these reissues complete). Other fans, such as Kel, want a second disc loaded with unreleased tracks, demos, alternate versions, etc. Either way, we were all expecting something special, unlike all of the other cash-in reissues we've been asked to buy in the past. Recent tracklists for the forthcoming reissues posted on hmv.co.jp and amazon.co.jp have suggested that the New Order camp is once again going to issue compilations that are neither comprehensive nor loaded with anything rare or unique. Honestly, we want to buy New Order stuff, if you make releases worth buying we will buy them. But please don't ask us to buy the same stuff for the third of forth time. Most of us have other monetary and life obligations. Sometimes I feel like George Lucas is in charge of your catalog. A well-meaning fan, Dan Hutchins

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: Isn't it on Canadian Cd-single Everything' Gone Green, released in 1990? Or was it 1981-82 EP.

Very hard to find, never saw it sold anywhere myself.

Ryan wrote: I saw it on eBay last night - an Austrian CD single for Everything's Gone Green.

See, this is the reason I'm glad that I'll finally, be able to buy Mesh in store; I don't want to go the ebay route. I'm for one am excited about the remasters.

-1 wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

dude, you totally overpaid for this.. didn't you check the weeding forum, where people were already sharing it?

anyways, its worth having....and i still have never found out where that version of world (tony garcia radio mix) came from..

later -1

No, I missed that. I only check this section of the forum really.

Still, a nice piece to own!

Lucas Lefel wrote: Kel, you said earlier today:

"I just don't need another CD with definitive 7" & 12" versions, we've had most of them".

I think this is absolutely NOT true. If you think that we've had Hurt, The Perfect Kiss, Subculture & Shellshock ... for instance because they're all appear on Substance 1987, it's not true. These were EDITS of the 12 inch versions. We never had the full ones, not even the real 7 inches (a couple of them appear since late 2005 on the Singles compilation but no Blue Monday, Confusion, Perfect Kiss, BLT, True Faith or Run2).

I'm not even talking about their B-sides (except for Hurt which was a B-side) 'cause they did never appear on CD yet and we want them also after all this time.

That's the reason WHY we finally want them so much now. What better moment can you think of than the album-remasters to put them on a 2nd disc?

It's about time or else they're wasted for good I'm afraid. I don't like the idea of another box set with rarities BECAUSE the record companies think there's not enough space on these 2nd discs or so: there IS enough space on each disc!

Or it has to be a singles box set which was Rob Gretton's idea 10 years ago (Recycle). But that's gonna cost too many for them they said ... so THAT will NEVER happen!!!

Do the full 12" versions with those precious added few seconds mean far more than something that's unheard,rare & infinately more interesting? Don't get me wrong,I love N.O. to bits & collect pretty much everything,which means I will buy these & I do want those 'full versions' ( altho' I can just rip from them vinyl & clean it to cd quality,as everyone else can ),but I was just looking forward to so much more,everything pointed to the fact there was going to be ( Hooky,Tim ).I just feel let down.I'm still hoping,maybe we're jumping the gun

Okay ,that's allright then, maybe we ARE jumping the gun too soon on this one, I HOPE we are all wrong on this one and that we're treated to something fascinating on all those 80's N.O.-albums.

Finally, Danimal: I like to send a message to Peter Hook on his MySpace, but only to wake his attention on THIS website and read THIS thread, for instance.

Maybe by making a link for him will do the trick.

Off to work, but I'll send him a link to this discussion when I get a moment today.

Ok, just sent Peter Hook the link to this discussion via Myspace. I don't know the guy, but everything I've read indicates that he's interested in the fans so here's hoping.

Ryan wrote:

No, I missed that. I only check this section of the forum really.

Still, a nice piece to own!

You do know it's a bootleg, don't you?

I didnt bother with the Jd re-issues so i dont think i'll be bothering with the no re-issues. I've no doubt that i'll be after buying the promos when they come out,for a rediculous price of course!

This track listing is an insult to New Order fans worldwide, and pretty much everyone else for that matter.

It can't possibly be as bad as listed, but even if things are shifted round to at least run in chronological order, I still can't see why this would appeal to anyone.

For goodness sake, cancel these releases before it's too late, then go home do your homework!! There are indeed treasure troves of material, similar to The Cure example (as mentioned above). This is just embarrassing.

wank - no more, been waiting for the definitive issues/remasters to come out since the maoning gets 'split-up'. If this is all London & the band can be arsed to give back to us then bollocks to em' Rob would have made a stern job of this upcoming waste of time

Emile Strunz wrote: This is fucking shit!!!

I've had it with these fuckers

Quite.

You took the turds right out of my trousers.

Danimal wrote: Ok, just sent Peter Hook the link to this discussion via Myspace. I don't know the guy, but everything I've read indicates that he's interested in the fans so here's hoping.

He replied to me (last post: http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=42576&PageIndex=2), so he should reply to you.

Peter can you provide me with a better DUSTER?

Canuck21 wrote:

Ryan wrote: I saw it on eBay last night - an Austrian CD single for Everything's Gone Green.

See, this is the reason I'm glad that I'll finally, be able to buy Mesh in store; I don't want to go the ebay route. I'm for one am excited about the remasters.

There is also this up now:

RARE LONG OUT OF PRINT : NEW ORDER 1981 Fep 313-1982 CD Ep in Excellent condition. Released on The Factory label ONLY in Canada. This CD contains: 1.Temptation 2.Hurt 3.Everythings Gone Green 4.Procession 5. Mesh. Some of these versions and songs are quite rare. Winner to pay S&H. I accept paypal, money orders or cashiers checks.

Looks like a CD version of "1981 - Factus 8 - 1982".

Starting bid: US $49.50

Buy It Now price: US $84.50

Ryan wrote:

Canuck21 wrote:

Ryan wrote: I saw it on eBay last night - an Austrian CD single for Everything's Gone Green.

See, this is the reason I'm glad that I'll finally, be able to buy Mesh in store; I don't want to go the ebay route. I'm for one am excited about the remasters.

There is also this up now:

RARE LONG OUT OF PRINT : NEW ORDER 1981 Fep 313-1982 CD Ep in Excellent condition. Released on The Factory label ONLY in Canada. This CD contains: 1.Temptation 2.Hurt 3.Everythings Gone Green 4.Procession 5. Mesh. Some of these versions and songs are quite rare. Winner to pay S&H. I accept paypal, money orders or cashiers checks.

Looks like a CD version of "1981 - Factus 8 - 1982".

Starting bid: US $49.50

Buy It Now price: US $84.50

I paid nearly £7 for mine.

Ryan wrote:

Danimal wrote: Ok, just sent Peter Hook the link to this discussion via Myspace. I don't know the guy, but everything I've read indicates that he's interested in the fans so here's hoping.

He replied to me (last post: http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=42576&PageIndex=2), so he should reply to you.

Did you happen to get a reply? I just sent him another one myself with the subject "Little bit nervous about the remasters (re: Japan HMV)" and linked him to the discussion, along with a few inquiries.

I registered on this forum just to post this, probably won't change anything, but well...I'm so disspointed with those tracklistings :( I mean, I'm not a hard-core fan, I love New Order, but I don't collect their releases, I just like their music...and don't care much for demos, or ultra-rare tracks...as with many 80s bands, I'd love to have everything they released in a nice compact format to listen to, why the hell is it so hard? albums, 7" singles, 12" singles, b-sides, all on the second disc. The Pet Shop Boys did it, New Model Army have some fantastic no-nonsense-straight-to-the-point re-releases of their EMI stuff...it's so sad that NO seem so incompetent to put out a proper career overview. And it doesn't have to be albums, why not put out a comprehensive Singles Box, like Depeche Mode or The Clash???

Goratrix wrote: I registered on this forum just to post this, probably won't change anything, but well...

welcome to the board, that said, you just posted one of the most confusing messages i have ever read here, and there are a lot of them..

if you don't think this will change anything, why did you bother in the first place?

are you that bored?

I'm so disspointed with those tracklistings :( I mean, I'm not a hard-core fan, I love New Order, but I don't collect their releases, I just like their music

ok, you're disappointed, by why? you're not 'hard-core', and you don't collect their release, and you just like their music..

so these releases are targetted to someone EXACTLY like you.............

what part did you miss?

...and don't care much for demos, or ultra-rare tracks...as with many 80s bands, I'd love to have everything they released in a nice compact format to listen to, why the hell is it so hard?

ok, once again, you don't want demos or rare tracks (which a lot of these are)......and you want EVERYTHING released, do you have ANY clue as to how many mixes, singles, edits there are for these tracks? just putting all the blue monday mixes, confusion mixes, or just the perfect kiss mixes takes up multiple discs...

and new order isn't exactly popular right now....

albums, 7" singles, 12" singles, b-sides, all on the second disc.

see above, there isn't barely enough room to put all these tracks on there...

go buy the following:

substance (2xcd) the best of the rest of the singles (2xcd) retro (4cd or if you're picky, the 5cd set)

once you have those, then come back and talk..

The Pet Shop Boys did it, New Model Army have some fantastic no-nonsense-straight-to-the-point re-releases of their EMI stuff...

maybe because they still have a huge budget, tour, and release singles, and albums constantly....

and don't tell me about PSB, i have 10 times the stuff they've released in their so-called 2xcd sets, they're missing hundreds of tracks and mixes, and where exactly is their boxed set? oh right, they don't have one...

never heard of new model army, can't comment..

it's so sad that NO seem so incompetent to put out a proper career overview. And it doesn't have to be albums, why not put out a comprehensive Singles Box, like Depeche Mode or The Clash???

once again, please talk when you know what you mean, the depeche mode remasters, and boxed sets are good, but still missing tons and tons of tracks and mixes...

are you just trying to vent some steam? or did you really come into this that unprepared???? especially to a new order board?

later -1

Well, I tend to consider myself kind of a hardcore collector, and I think the tracklisting for these reissues seem to be pretty fair; the idea of recollect a bunch of “demos & unreleased tracks” with poor or bad recording quality doesn’t fit the “remaster” concept, wich implies a higher sound quality and fidelity of the final product.

-1 made a good point when he said it would be impossible to get the whole Blue Monday & Confusion or whatever official singles without taking several extra CDs.

The way I see it, most of us are STILL pissed off by the giant pile of *CR P* that Retro was back in late 2002… that damn box was the appropriate place for the demo/studio/unreleased stuff, and someone (and I really don’t care if it's the band, the management or the record company – or both - who deserves to be blamed) really made us fools.

Cheers for everyone (but not for Warners)

tho, -1, he has a point about "how hard is it for New Order to put out a comprehensive singles box?"

If Depeche Mode and PSB can do it, surely New Order can.

Recycle should have happened.

New Order must have as many fans as Depeche or PSB.

Plus, it isn't like it takes a load of investment really to do it properly. It is just accumulating old masters and assembling them. Print 5k or 10k and there should be no financial loss.

I think the real answer is there is no Gretton, and nobody that is holding them all together anymore.

-1 wrote:

go buy the following:

substance (2xcd) the best of the rest of the singles (2xcd) retro (4cd or if you're picky, the 5cd set)

OK, I'm not going to respond to all the points in that elitist post, but just this: I have those already (except Retro). My point is, I would gladly exchange them for a less messy collection. When I said "everything", I meant album version, 7" single version, 12" unedited single version. Those, plus b-sides, would surely fit on the second CD. Plus a few sought-after songs like the live-in-studio Perfect Kiss. All that on a nice collection of 2CD albums, instead of a pile of albums and a pile of compilations with the same tracks repeated three or four times. Oh, and regarding Retro, I would buy the 5CD version. In a shop. When they decided to make it a super-collectible item, they lost me, I'm not buying CDs on eBay.

well its hardly surprising but still a shame, but its what we have come to expect. surely there must be SOME tracks that we have never heard, ie the seven leftovers from wftsc. and what do they offer us? mince.

-1 wrote:

Goratrix wrote: I registered on this forum just to post this, probably won't change anything, but well...

welcome to the board, that said, you just posted one of the most confusing messages i have ever read here, and there are a lot of them..

if you don't think this will change anything, why did you bother in the first place?

are you that bored?

I'm so disspointed with those tracklistings :( I mean, I'm not a hard-core fan, I love New Order, but I don't collect their releases, I just like their music

ok, you're disappointed, by why? you're not 'hard-core', and you don't collect their release, and you just like their music..

so these releases are targetted to someone EXACTLY like you.............

what part did you miss?

...and don't care much for demos, or ultra-rare tracks...as with many 80s bands, I'd love to have everything they released in a nice compact format to listen to, why the hell is it so hard?

ok, once again, you don't want demos or rare tracks (which a lot of these are)......and you want EVERYTHING released, do you have ANY clue as to how many mixes, singles, edits there are for these tracks? just putting all the blue monday mixes, confusion mixes, or just the perfect kiss mixes takes up multiple discs...

and new order isn't exactly popular right now....

albums, 7" singles, 12" singles, b-sides, all on the second disc.

see above, there isn't barely enough room to put all these tracks on there...

go buy the following:

substance (2xcd) the best of the rest of the singles (2xcd) retro (4cd or if you're picky, the 5cd set)

once you have those, then come back and talk..

The Pet Shop Boys did it, New Model Army have some fantastic no-nonsense-straight-to-the-point re-releases of their EMI stuff...

maybe because they still have a huge budget, tour, and release singles, and albums constantly....

and don't tell me about PSB, i have 10 times the stuff they've released in their so-called 2xcd sets, they're missing hundreds of tracks and mixes, and where exactly is their boxed set? oh right, they don't have one...

never heard of new model army, can't comment..

it's so sad that NO seem so incompetent to put out a proper career overview. And it doesn't have to be albums, why not put out a comprehensive Singles Box, like Depeche Mode or The Clash???

once again, please talk when you know what you mean, the depeche mode remasters, and boxed sets are good, but still missing tons and tons of tracks and mixes...

are you just trying to vent some steam? or did you really come into this that unprepared???? especially to a new order board?

later -1

Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

Goratrix wrote:

-1 wrote:

go buy the following:

substance (2xcd) the best of the rest of the singles (2xcd) retro (4cd or if you're picky, the 5cd set)

OK, I'm not going to respond to all the points in that elitist post, but just this: I have those already (except Retro). My point is, I would gladly exchange them for a less messy collection. When I said "everything", I meant album version, 7" single version, 12" unedited single version. Those, plus b-sides, would surely fit on the second CD. Plus a few sought-after songs like the live-in-studio Perfect Kiss. All that on a nice collection of 2CD albums, instead of a pile of albums and a pile of compilations with the same tracks repeated three or four times. Oh, and regarding Retro, I would buy the 5CD version. In a shop. When they decided to make it a super-collectible item, they lost me, I'm not buying CDs on eBay.

Welcome to the board. I think what you're seeking is an updated version of Substance (i.e. 1981-2005): all definitive A sides & B sides, but by now it would take up to 4 CDs to make it. Again and again, what a waste Retro was... :(

Retro wasn't a total waste for everyone. It's still a great single cd best of. It gave me the original Temptation and Confusion. The live disc was okay. And for those who want the endless remixes the club disc was good. And of course the rare tracks on disc 5...

Edward Schatz wrote: Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

edward..

do you collect depeche mode?

there are a lot of promo releases... releases that only came out in japan (x1,x2) and stuff missing from all the singles boxes also.......there are VINYL only mixes, and promo cd mixes......

ok, for starters (unless you buy the 644 track depeche mode collection from itunes...which it claims has 59 exclusive tracks...)

another thing is they all have that stupid DRM, and YOU CANT PICK out the tracks you want, you HAVE TO BUY ALL OF THEM..

and then you're STILL missing tracks..... for starters..............................:

Nothing (Justin Strauss Dub) Strangelove (7" Blind Edit) Strangelove (The Fresh Ground Mix) A Question of Lust(Robert Margouleff Remix) Behind the Wheel (Dub) Behind The Wheel/Route 66 (Mega-Single Mix) It's No Good (Future Dub) It's No Good (Funk Dub) Useless (CJ Bolland Ultrasonar Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Mix) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Instrumental) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Down) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Bass Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Martin's Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Acapella) I Feel Loved (DJ Sweden Mix) I Feel Loved (Butcher Bros Mixes) I Feel Loved (NYC aka Club 69 Mix) etc..

how many more things do you think they left off?

now tell me how 'comprehensive' it is.

later -1

Goratrix wrote:

OK, I'm not going to respond to all the points in that elitist post, but just this: I have those already (except Retro). My point is, I would gladly exchange them for a less messy collection.

ok, sorry about the directness...but what do you mean by less messy?

if you want everything in one place, do you mean like the complete U2 collection, or the complete depeche mode collection (mentioned above)...from iTunes with hundreds of tracks?????

also, if you already have all those releases, why don't you just make your own collection? cd-burners are cheap, and so are blanks.. seriously, its not that hard....

When I said "everything", I meant album version, 7" single version, 12" unedited single version. Those, plus b-sides, would surely fit on the second CD.

NO THEY WONT, THATS MY WHOLE POINT, there are way too many mixes, edits, and single versions for each tracks,.....for example an older album, from 'low-life'

elegia (full version) 17:31

kiss of death (7" edit or inst) 5:09 kiss of death (12") 7:02

the perfect kiss (album edit) 4:10
the perfect kiss (7" edit) 4:23
the perfect kiss (12" extended) 8:46
the perfect kiss (live bbc1) 10:05
the perfect kiss (live edit) 5:18
the perfect kiss (live video) 9:55 the perfect kiss (substance) 8:02
perfect pit 1:20

sub-culture (remix edit) 4:57
sub-culture (substance) 4:48
subvulture (or dub-vulture) 7:57

sunrise (instrumental rough mix) 5:39

there are also official razormaid mixes for subculture, along with live versions of the songs from other videos/releases, etc....

still not convinced?

ok what about for something more recent like 'technique' (good luck picking out the tracks)..............

fine line 4:43
fine time (best of or 7") 3:08
fine time (messed around mix) 4:33 fine time (silk mix) 6:15

round & round-94 3:59
round & round (7" edit #1) 3:31
round & round (7" edit #2) 3:59
round & round (club mix) 7:07
round & round (detroit mix) 6:29
round & round (lp edit - chris lord alge mix) 3:47
round & round (twelve inch mix or 12" version) 6:52
round & round (twelve inch remix) 6:53

run 2 (7") 3:35
run 2 (best of) 4:26
run 2 (extended) 5:22

mto 3:43
mto (minus mix) 5:24

best and marsh 4:32 best and marsh (edit) 3:59

vanishing point (instrumental making out mix) 5:10

don't do it 4:30

if you added all the 'world in motion' mixes, it would be even longer..

world in motion (or single mix) 4:30 world in motion (the b-side) 4:48 world in motion (carabinieri mix) 5:52
world in motion'96 (mark bell remix) 4:56
world in motion (no alla violenzia mix) 5:35
world in motion (subbuteo mix) 5:08
world in motion (subbuteo dub) 5:08

you can do this for all the albums...

Plus a few sought-after songs like the live-in-studio Perfect Kiss. All that on a nice collection of 2CD albums, instead of a pile of albums and a pile of compilations with the same tracks repeated three or four times. Oh, and regarding Retro, I would buy the 5CD version. In a shop. When they decided to make it a super-collectible item, they lost me, I'm not buying CDs on eBay.

i hope you see what you are asking for is IMPOSSIBLE..

later -1

New Order should move from London to Mute.

-1 wrote:

Edward Schatz wrote: Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

edward..

do you collect depeche mode?

there are a lot of promo releases... releases that only came out in japan (x1,x2) and stuff missing from all the singles boxes also.......there are VINYL only mixes, and promo cd mixes......

ok, for starters (unless you buy the 644 track depeche mode collection from itunes...which it claims has 59 exclusive tracks...)

another thing is they all have that stupid DRM, and YOU CANT PICK out the tracks you want, you HAVE TO BUY ALL OF THEM..

and then you're STILL missing tracks..... for starters..............................:

Nothing (Justin Strauss Dub) Strangelove (7" Blind Edit) Strangelove (The Fresh Ground Mix) A Question of Lust(Robert Margouleff Remix) Behind the Wheel (Dub) Behind The Wheel/Route 66 (Mega-Single Mix) It's No Good (Future Dub) It's No Good (Funk Dub) Useless (CJ Bolland Ultrasonar Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Mix) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Instrumental) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Down) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Bass Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Martin's Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Acapella) I Feel Loved (DJ Sweden Mix) I Feel Loved (Butcher Bros Mixes) I Feel Loved (NYC aka Club 69 Mix) etc..

how many more things do you think they left off?

now tell me how 'comprehensive' it is.

later -1

A friend and I have been trying to overcome all this, re: Depeche Mode. See what we've been up to here:

http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?p=1520961#1520961

As for the NO remasters:

Subject:

RE: Little bit nervous about the remasters (re: Japan HMV)

Body: the remasters will have allo the corresponding tracks time wise, so dont worry!

----------------- Original Message ----------------- From: Ryan Date: 06 Aug 2008, 05:04

Pete,

http://www. neworderonline. com/Forums/MessageList. aspx?ThreadID=42941

We've been discussing the current "supposed" tracklisting for the remasters between Movement and Technique, and a lot of the stuff that it has listed seems to be omitting a lot of things that still haven't seen a digital release, like one person pointed out:

ALL Confusion tracks from FAC93 Kiss Of Death, The Perfect Pit Dub Vulture Shellcock Shame Of The Nation Bizarre Dub Triangle Touched By The Hand Of Dub Beach Buggy

ARE they the final track listings, or can we expect more b-sides and special/unreleased material? Not sure how reliable the Japanese HMV website is...

Incidentally I grabbed a pressing of that "Excerpts From 'Recycle'" promo CD just in case, to get my hands on some rarer b-sides etc, in case they aren't appearing on these remasters. I sincerely hope ALL as-yet-digitally-unreleased b-sides from each era do appear on the remasters, however.

This is a perfect opportunity to get absolutely everything out there on CD rather than the old 12 inch!

Heard back from Peter Hook today. I'll give the guy credit, he's interested, polite, and writes back. The only other rock star who has ever bothered to mail me back is Gary Numan. Anyway, I don't think he understands that the fans want the remasters for the extras discs and not really for the albums themselves. I posted my message to him earlier in this thread. Here are his responses to that message and to the message containing the link to this thread:

"unless im missing something here , the term remaster means the original l-p- brought up to date , i think they have really benefitted, they have a companion disk with them of all time related odd singles that werent on albums, we resisted putting live stuff on because it was rob grettons last wish that they all be released on cd, all titles that is , as to putting demo¨s out that to me is dodgy, howwould you get us all to agreeÇ"

Regarding the thread (which I gather he read):

"interestingÇ there will be no demos only releases inc.crepescule factorey usa etc"

I sent him another message back asking him about officially released things left off like "Cries and Whispers" "Skullcrusher" and "Sputnik" as well as other 80s 12", 7", alt. versions, etc. Don't really expect to hear from him again, but hey, the guy is listening! If anyone here decides to message him, please be polite... this guy actually gives a damn about his fans.

eil.com

Movement (eil.com)

PC&L (eil.com)

Low-Life (eil.com)

Brotherhood (eil.com)

Technique (eil.com)

Let's remember that Movement, Brotherhood, and probably PC&L and Low-Life as well could all really benefit from a remastering. Not only are the original mixes dodgy (on the first two, that is), but CD pressing in the 80's really hadn't worked all the kinks out yet so they sounded thinner and colder than they should have.

I recently bought the Depeche Mode Black Celebration remaster (not a great fan of theirs but they had three good albums in a row starting with BC), and I couldn't give a shit about the extra tracks on the DVD - in that case the bonus disc really was a bonus, I got it purely because the original mastering was shit and there was a dramatic improvement in sound quality. I imagine the same will be true of these, and for me that's reason enough (the album that probably needs it least, Technique, is also the one that has a couple things I've missed). I just hope they don't compress everything to 11.

Not that I'd mind some extra tracks or rarities, to be sure, and they really should fill the discs up. But that's a good discussion in its own right. It sounds like there may not be much worth hearing that hasn't been released, so probably not too many possible surprises, which means hardcore fans probably WILL have most things already. Including off-album singles along with B sides and memorable remixes and so forth that previously have been available only on vinyl, only to mad fans who've tracked down the skinny CD singles, or not at all makes a lot of sense. Live stuff is debatable; I wouldn't mind select cuts from each era or a classic show, but that's probably an entire disc right there (which I'd buy separately too). And demos...well, cool if they're distinctively different takes on the final tracks and in decent shape, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't worth more than a single listen for curiosity's sake.

That said, I *was* very glad to get the 5th disc in Retro.

I'll have to go back and read some of those "what would you want on a remastered Insert Here?" threads.

So,in a nutshell,no Gretton,no Control.....

-1 wrote:

Edward Schatz wrote: Dude, take a deep breath. It's going to be ok. Why all the hostility? Also, what tracks are missing from the Depeche Mode singles box sets? I have the box sets and the original CD releases (for the singles that had them) and except for maybe the off track here and there, "tons" is a bit exaggerated.

edward..

do you collect depeche mode?

there are a lot of promo releases... releases that only came out in japan (x1,x2) and stuff missing from all the singles boxes also.......there are VINYL only mixes, and promo cd mixes......

ok, for starters (unless you buy the 644 track depeche mode collection from itunes...which it claims has 59 exclusive tracks...)

another thing is they all have that stupid DRM, and YOU CANT PICK out the tracks you want, you HAVE TO BUY ALL OF THEM..

and then you're STILL missing tracks..... for starters..............................:

Nothing (Justin Strauss Dub) Strangelove (7" Blind Edit) Strangelove (The Fresh Ground Mix) A Question of Lust(Robert Margouleff Remix) Behind the Wheel (Dub) Behind The Wheel/Route 66 (Mega-Single Mix) It's No Good (Future Dub) It's No Good (Funk Dub) Useless (CJ Bolland Ultrasonar Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Mix) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Remix Edit) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Instrumental) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Vocal Down) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Bass Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Martin's Guitar Up) Only When I Lose Myself (Josh Abraham Acapella) I Feel Loved (DJ Sweden Mix) I Feel Loved (Butcher Bros Mixes) I Feel Loved (NYC aka Club 69 Mix) etc..

how many more things do you think they left off?

now tell me how 'comprehensive' it is.

later -1

I do actually collect Depeche Mode. I happen to be a huge fan to boot. Most (not all) of those mixes I have. Perhaps I was just unaware of how hard it was to come by some of them but I don't think of as rare as you imply. I have other albums that are more rare (as far as I know) but eh. That's not the purpose of this thread. On the point that these editions are sorely lacking, I agree. I think that they should include all of the remixes regardless of how many CDs that would require (probably 3 on most). Given the current state of the music business, that is a fantasy at best...

Chase wrote: Let's remember that Movement, Brotherhood, and probably PC&L and Low-Life as well could all really benefit from a remastering. Not only are the original mixes dodgy (on the first two, that is), but CD pressing in the 80's really hadn't worked all the kinks out yet so they sounded thinner and colder than they should have.

I recently bought the Depeche Mode Black Celebration remaster (not a great fan of theirs but they had three good albums in a row starting with BC), and I couldn't give a shit about the extra tracks on the DVD - in that case the bonus disc really was a bonus, I got it purely because the original mastering was shit and there was a dramatic improvement in sound quality. I imagine the same will be true of these, and for me that's reason enough (the album that probably needs it least, Technique, is also the one that has a couple things I've missed). I just hope they don't compress everything to 11.

Not that I'd mind some extra tracks or rarities, to be sure, and they really should fill the discs up. But that's a good discussion in its own right. It sounds like there may not be much worth hearing that hasn't been released, so probably not too many possible surprises, which means hardcore fans probably WILL have most things already. Including off-album singles along with B sides and memorable remixes and so forth that previously have been available only on vinyl, only to mad fans who've tracked down the skinny CD singles, or not at all makes a lot of sense. Live stuff is debatable; I wouldn't mind select cuts from each era or a classic show, but that's probably an entire disc right there (which I'd buy separately too). And demos...well, cool if they're distinctively different takes on the final tracks and in decent shape, but I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't worth more than a single listen for curiosity's sake.

That said, I *was* very glad to get the 5th disc in Retro.

I'll have to go back and read some of those "what would you want on a remastered Insert Here?" threads.

Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

The other day I was thinking ... why does it appear that only Hooky is involved in this whole reissue/remaster thing?! Doesn't Steve, Gillian and Barney have anything to say or do in this matter?!

Very strange.

Or is it that Hooky is the voice of all of them on this one?! Can't believe that they all have the same opinion on how to approach this. But maybe it only seems the case here.

Besides, I didn't hear anything back from Hooky's MySpace regarding the bonus stuff in this thread. Expecting the worst.

Still hoping for more and complete bonus tracks on the bonus disc for the London Records label. Why can't they just USE the 80 minutes-space :\ohwell:

Edward Schatz wrote: Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

I have the Black Celebration remaster as well (my personal favourite DM album), and there seems to be very little, or no compression at all, if it is possible. Apparently Alan Wilder and the band had it under rigid control. Very far away from Singles.

...and I have to say the mini-documentary on the bonus DVD looks like a very nice touch.

Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

I totally agree with this !

To some extent I could live without bonus tracks if I knew the main album was going to remastered by someone with ears eg. Steve Hoffman or the like. However, I'm sure these remasters will sound horrible just like the appalling "Control Soundtrack" and the execrable "Singles". I have seen Hooky quoted as saying he is impressed with the sound on the remasters, however, this is the same man who was blown away by the Joy Division remasters (which were no great shakes either).

marketing genius if you ask me. This way we will maintain our interest in 2016.

Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Movement

1. Ceremony 4:23 [if re-recorded, 2nd version]
2. Temptation (12") 8:47
3. In A Lonely Place (12") 6:12
4. EGG 5:30
5. Procession 4:26
6. Mesh 3:00
7. Hurt 8:03 Total playing time: 40:21

PC&L

1. Blue Monday 7:27
2. The Beach 7:17
3. Confusion 8:13
4. Thieves Like Us (12") 6:35
5. Lonesome Tonight 5:09
6. Murder 3:54
7. Thieves Like Us (Inst.) 6:55 Total playing time: 45:30

Low-Life

1. The Perfect Kiss (12") 8:46
2. Sub-Culture (12") 7:26
3. Shellshock (12") 9:44
4. State of the Nation (12") 6:31
5. Elegia (full version) 17:21
6. Let's Go 4:02 (assuming 1994 non-fading version)
7. Salvation Theme 2:13 Total playing time: 56:03

Brotherhood

1. BLT (12") 6:42
2. 1963 5:34
3. True Faith (12") 5:52
4. Touched by the Hand of God (12") 7:03
5. Blue Monday 88 (12") 7:08
6. Evil Dust 3:43 (12")
7. True Dub 10:43 Total playing time: 46:45

Technique

1. Don't Do It 4:29
2. Fine Line 4:44
3. Round & Round 6:50
4. Best & Marsh 4:28
5. World in Motion 4:30
6. Run 2 3:37
7. MTO 3:44
8. Vanishing Point (Inst.) 5:10
9. Fine Time (12") 4:43 Total playing time: 42:15

I can see what Hooky's saying, about the excercise being to remaster and reissue the albums; and that demos may sound scrappy on the bonus discs. However, even with that caveat, they should have at least filled the bonus discs up with some more versions of A-sides/B-sides that still only remain on vinyl. Does seem a bit of a waste.

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

What's the betting they'll still get it wrong and put edited/re-recorded Substance versions of the singles on there??!

Andy

Looks like Movement with the bonuses would actually fit on single disc? Unbelievable :(

Mr Discography wrote: What's the betting they'll still get it wrong and put edited/re-recorded Substance versions of the singles on there??!

Andy

That's what I am really afraid of.

Max

By the way, I'm quite sure they mixed up "Mesh" and "Cries & Whispers" once more, I would not hold my breath you'll get "Mesh" on a proper released CD at last.

I have just read the whole thread.It was so exciting is there any chance it can be included on the remasters as an audio book, read aloud by Liam? It's about 5 pages so ideally that makes 1 page per bonus disc to fill up the spare 30 odd minutes at the end of each disc? hmmm? Hmmm? Good idea yeah?

Flippin 'eck!

MASSIVELY DISAPPOINTED

surfjim wrote: MASSIVELY DISAPPOINTED

So BIG?????????

Edward Schatz wrote: Quoted your whole message but really addressing one point: mastering. Unfortunately, most people (not you since you like the Black Celebration remaster) seem to think that a good "remaster" means the tracks are compressed and maximised to hell. In other words, they are LOUD. Unfortunately, that is what happened with the New Order Singles set. Those tracks are brickwalled and have no dynamic qualities whatsoever. I fear the same for the forthcoming remasters. Most people seem to prefer their music as loud as can be rather than adjusting their volume knob.

Yep. I never got Singles (and now I definitely won't) but that's exactly what I don't want.

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

Andy

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

johnny wrote: I have just read the whole thread.It was so exciting is there any chance it can be included on the remasters as an audio book, read aloud by Liam? It's about 5 pages so ideally that makes 1 page per bonus disc to fill up the spare 30 odd minutes at the end of each disc? hmmm? Hmmm? Good idea yeah?

after checking all the individual album threads for suggestions to see what should have been on these albums......didn't see ANY that could have actually worked (mine still left off stuff too)...

so, since nobody apparently can decide what they want on there, i guess we'll never know..

i kind of like the minimalistic approach.. it harkens back to a 'new order' of the past... (less is more)..

later -1

-1 wrote:

Mr Discography wrote: Okay, Mr Discography has done a quick calculation of running times for these bonus discs, assuming it's mostly the full 12" versions of the singles. Show's there's loads of spare space left on all discs:

Along with the PSB reissues, the Happy Mondays reissue of 'Bummed' was a good example of two discs being well utilised to get the maximum out of the reissue excercise.

Andy

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

Not sure what happened there but I'll try again

'm sorry, but the PSB albums 2nd discs gave you the distinct impression that some thought and care had been put into their production. We're not talking about loading the discs with every dumb remix every made - but selecting versions that haven't been available widely on CD.

Take the Movement disc - why can't we have Cries and Whispers and Mesh? Is there not a version of Too Late, that they recorded for the Peel Sessions, kicking around somewhere? On PC&L, why not at least another version of Confusion that's only been available on the 12". And why not the Hacienda Christmas Flexi stuff - dodgy as that may be.

Lowlife? Alternate version of Subculture available on the Record Mirror flexi? The Perfect Pit?

Brotherhood? Aussie mix of Paradise? Where's that?

Technique? If a bootlegger can make a perfectly acceptable version of The Happy One, why the hell can't the band that actually produced it do so? The mind fucking boggles, it's not like they're all really busy. I wouldn't mind at least one of the Kevin Saunderson Detroit techno mixes of Round & Round on the second disc. Is that going to happen? Is it FUCK!!!!!!

So -1, the PSB reissues were seen as an opportunity to round up selected stuff that wasn't that widely available. That is what this project should have been, and the fact that it isn't is fucking despicable, lazy, and a real pain in the fucking arse.

Wilson and Gretton may have had their critics around mismanagement, but you could have guaranteed that if they were involved in this project, it would have been fucking great.

-1 wrote:

please don't use the crappy PSB 2xcd re-releases to show how lame demos, old mixes, and non album tracks can 'fill' out a disc....why don't they just put all the mixes that are missing from CD on there, like they should have , oh, about a thousand years ago?????

and good luck ever seeing any kind of complete collection, boxset, or anything else from them..

those were very disappointing to PSB fans..

not sure about happy mondays, because they never had enough material anyways...

later -1

I'll use whatever examples I think are appropriate, thank you. I'd suggest those releases were dissappointing to you, rather than all PSB fans, as they seem very well liked by PSB fans that post on this forum and their own message boards - including me!

I'm sure most of us would be bored witless by a CD collection that collates together all mixes of all tracks by New Order/PSB/DM, as there's so many of them on 12"s/promos/edits, etc. It'd be expensive, probably not sell that well, and would be one for the true completists only!

But one, full bonus CD with a couple of different (possibly previously vinyl-only) mixes of each single; B sides and a few interesting rarities would be much appreciated with these reissues, and would be a more comprehensive representation of what the band were up to at the time of each album.

Andy

Emile Strunz wrote: Not sure what happened there but I'll try again

'm sorry, but the PSB albums 2nd discs gave you the distinct impression that some thought and care had been put into their production. We're not talking about loading the discs with every dumb remix every made - but selecting versions that haven't been available widely on CD.

Take the Movement disc - why can't we have Cries and Whispers and Mesh? Is there not a version of Too Late, that they recorded for the Peel Sessions, kicking around somewhere? On PC&L, why not at least another version of Confusion that's only been available on the 12". And why not the Hacienda Christmas Flexi stuff - dodgy as that may be.

Lowlife? Alternate version of Subculture available on the Record Mirror flexi? The Perfect Pit?

Brotherhood? Aussie mix of Paradise? Where's that?

Technique? If a bootlegger can make a perfectly acceptable version of The Happy One, why the hell can't the band that actually produced it do so? The mind fucking boggles, it's not like they're all really busy. I wouldn't mind at least one of the Kevin Saunderson Detroit techno mixes of Round & Round on the second disc. Is that going to happen? Is it FUCK!!!!!!

So -1, the PSB reissues were seen as an opportunity to round up selected stuff that wasn't that widely available. That is what this project should have been, and the fact that it isn't is fucking despicable, lazy, and a real pain in the fucking arse.

Wilson and Gretton may have had their critics around mismanagement, but you could have guaranteed that if they were involved in this project, it would have been fucking great.

Can't comment on the PSB stuff,the Mondays' ones were fine,but,yep,all in all,that's along the lines of what most people want & about right

& has been mentioned,& what I thought myself,all the Movement stuff will fit on cd so,I'm sorry,it's damn fookin' poor & annoying & a rip-off.It's a long way from the Factory days when ATH said that if you want people to buy your product,make it worth buying,not just the packaging,but content as well :\ohwell:

Mr Discography wrote: I'll use whatever examples I think are appropriate, thank you. I'd suggest those releases were dissappointing to you, rather than all PSB fans, as they seem very well liked by PSB fans that post on this forum and their own message boards - including me!

I'm sure most of us would be bored witless by a CD collection that collates together all mixes of all tracks by New Order/PSB/DM, as there's so many of them on 12"s/promos/edits, etc. It'd be expensive, probably not sell that well, and would be one for the true completists only!

But one, full bonus CD with a couple of different (possibly previously vinyl-only) mixes of each single; B sides and a few interesting rarities would be much appreciated with these reissues, and would be a more comprehensive representation of what the band were up to at the time of each album.

Andy

Completely agree - multiple CD's full of versions of the same track would bore me senseless - the PSB reissues are a perfect example of how a remaster should be - include a couple of demos, the odd vinyl-only remix, and everyone's happy. Just filling up a CD with World In Motion remixes would, however, annoy Shug, so that should be a starter for 10! :p

7" exclusive promo edits would only appeal to a small minority of fans...

What is happening, however, seems to be replicating the Substance tracks on the second CD's, so a somewhat missed opportunity there.

Demo versions, however, are probably not there because some members of the band (all?) probably wouldn't want those versions available (i.e. imperfect singing (!), guitars, drums, bass)... Annoying, but what can you do?

In the forthcoming 808 State reissues, Graham Massey's sensibly chosen a couple of rare mixes, some unreleased live versions and some previously unheard of demos. Other demos which don't appear on the reissues can be downloaded free of charge from the website. So, essentially those remasters are looking a lot better than these! :)

Ah well, we'll have to wait for the exact tracklistings to be determined - some of those tracks listed on HMV Japan/Esprit might be different versions that aren't currently listed, but I'm not holding my breath... At least we'll get True Dub! :p

Can i just add the PET SHOP BOYS 2 cd collection is SUPERB both in content and design!

ROCKET MICK wrote: Can i just add the PET SHOP BOYS 2 cd collection is SUPERB both in content and design!

You can indeed!

ShugZV wrote:

Nick King wrote:

Completely agree - multiple CD's full of versions of the same track would bore me senseless - the PSB reissues are a perfect example of how a remaster should be - include a couple of demos, the odd vinyl-only remix, and everyone's happy. Just filling up a CD with World In Motion remixes would, however, annoy Shug, so that should be a starter for 10! :p

Emile Strunz wrote: Not sure what happened there but I'll try again

'm sorry, but the PSB albums 2nd discs gave you the distinct impression that some thought and care had been put into their production. We're not talking about loading the discs with every dumb remix every made - but selecting versions that haven't been available widely on CD.

do you collect the PSB? a lot of those tracks were available through aurally, and other bootlegs...also if you collected the cd-singles, and vinyl, you had most of those...[and some other missing tracks]..

i agree that there was thought put into the package, especially the booklets however, the tracklisting was not optimal to me..

So -1, the PSB reissues were seen as an opportunity to round up selected stuff that wasn't that widely available. That is what this project should have been, and the fact that it isn't is fucking despicable, lazy, and a real pain in the fucking arse.

Wilson and Gretton may have had their critics around mismanagement, but you could have guaranteed that if they were involved in this project, it would have been fucking great.

a lot of those tracks that you mentioned are already available, granted some are harder to find than others..

basically it boils down to the same problem

YOU CANT MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY ALL THE TIME..

were people happy with the following?

substance (no) - cut off tracks best of (no) - not complete rest of (no) - some didn't like the new mixes international (no) - not complete retro-4cd (no) - didn't like the selection retro-5cd (no) - wanted more rarities singles (no) - still wasn't complete 12 x 12 (no) - not on cd, and some didn't like the new mixes

how in the world would anyone would be happy with these? given the 100% failure rate of the previous releases? [and i'm not even talking about videos etc..]

there are 3 main groups of people that need to be addressed

1. casual/indifferent people - will buy the remasters and be happy (some hardcore collectors will buy it to be completist - and complain)

2. casual collectors - will buy it (maybe), but still complain

a)hardcore picky fans - will not buy it [want all remixes, everything available] b)hardcore selective fans - want to have a choice selection of tracks THEY think should be there, including rarities,demos, mixes, etc THAT WILL MAKE THEM HAPPY

so what do you do? nothing, you compromise, as always......OR

don't you think we could make our own (yet, again).

through this board, we have access to many demos, all the b-sides, mixes etc.....don't you think they are available? remastered? and complete? yes, yes, and yes...

we could easily take those, once this set is released, to see what gaps it fills in, and then match it up..

singles 2, retro 2, recycled............whatever you want to call it.

i've mapped out a 30 cd set ! (or 5 dvd-r s)...........that could contain almost EVERY single track from them.....in cd quality...........and that doesn't include demos, or soundboard, or live tracks from DVD's that have been released recently..

you could take those, and mix and match your own version..

want mixes? fit as many as you want.

want b-sides / rarities ? here you go....all you can fill up .

want your own custom version? no problem.........

[and yes, i have gone back for PSB, and Depeche mode, and made my own versions....]

=================================================== should we have to do this...no shouldn't the record company take care of it? ....they didn't is this a 'grey' area........of course...

yes, the record company is being lazy, do we have to live with it? no, not all....

so instead of complaining about it, BE PROACTIVE, TAKE CONTROL...... why not make suggestions, and contribute if you can....

THIS IS DOABLE, i've been on projects before where you had a common goal............ and it has worked out pretty well....

think about it..... it is within reach...

..... recycled ........

later -1

Demos/Edits/Soundboards - if the band aren't happy with the particular version, they won't allow it to appear - doesn't matter what the record company think...

Nick King wrote: Demos/Edits/Soundboards - if the band aren't happy with the particular version, they won't allow it to appear - doesn't matter what the record company think...

i don't even want to imagine the nightmare that licensing out tracks from factory/london and other labels have been through the years..

these are not simple issues, and cost a lot of money to resolve..

i am not a lawyer, but if you (the band, label) don't have everything licensed properly you (the fan) will not be able to have access to those..

thats why the fan edits/bootlegs bypass this restriction..

later -1

-1 wrote:

YOU CANT MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY ALL THE TIME..

No you can't. But you can try and do your best. You have 80 minutes of free space on the bonus disc and try to select what most people from the different gropus would want. But, by the look of that tracklisting, they didn't even try, and that's what people are complaining about. Not about the specifics, or the individual tracks, but about the fact that they get a poor 40 mins bonus with the same stuff as before. The PSB and DM sets may not be perfect, but at least they show respect for the fans. This doesn't.

Goratrix wrote:

-1 wrote:

YOU CANT MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY ALL THE TIME..

No you can't. But you can try and do your best. You have 80 minutes of free space on the bonus disc and try to select what most people from the different gropus would want. But, by the look of that tracklisting, they didn't even try, and that's what people are complaining about. Not about the specifics, or the individual tracks, but about the fact that they get a poor 40 mins bonus with the same stuff as before. The PSB and DM sets may not be perfect, but at least they show respect for the fans. This doesn't.

i agree with you, i agree with you, i agree with 99%

see there, i can be agreeable..

but it's that 1 last % that kills you...

they are literally 'damned' if you do, and 'damned' if you dont.....

my point is that even if they did fill up the rest of the 40mins, even if they were 80 minutes long, AND IF (and this is a huge if), they were 3cd sets.... and had demos, rarities, and ALL the non-vinyl mixes...

you know what, i would not be suprised that THERE WOULD STILL BE COMPLAINTS>>>>>>>>>> YES <<<<< AND LOTS of them...

there is no solution set, to the 3 groups of fans, that is sufficient to make them all simultaneously happy, even if you made 90% of them happy, 80% happy, heck even 50% of them happy......

i really don't see how the majority of this board, and the rest of the fans, can HONESTLY say they would be pleased with ANY effort that did (hypothetically) get released....

its a losing battle..............the minute the posting went up, it was all downhill from there, how could it not be?

once again, no-one here on this board, will admit that they have ever been happy with any of the new order releases (or if they do, they will not admit it)..

please feel free to prove me wrong..

[also, i fall into the category of semi-hardcore collector that will buy everything just for the sake of completeness, including compilations for just one track, stupid dj remix sets for rare mixes, and all kinds of other crap, just because new order decided to put something out there, yes, its a sad state, i know..................................... ]

later -1

Goratrix wrote:

-1 wrote:

YOU CANT MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY ALL THE TIME..

No you can't. But you can try and do your best. You have 80 minutes of free space on the bonus disc and try to select what most people from the different gropus would want. But, by the look of that tracklisting, they didn't even try, and that's what people are complaining about. Not about the specifics, or the individual tracks, but about the fact that they get a poor 40 mins bonus with the same stuff as before. The PSB and DM sets may not be perfect, but at least they show respect for the fans. This doesn't.

Quite. Which was my original point. An opportunity to gather up unavailable material and provide something of value for the fans. A bonus disc full of remixes would be fucking awful. A disc that acted as a historical document for the band -a moment in time that captured them at a certain point in their career - is what we are talking about here, and which wouldn't be a million miles away from what is being proposed so far. The shame is that it wouldn't take much to fix this situation - the odd track here, a curio there, a rare remix here, an unreleased version there etc etc

After the Retro fiasco you would have thought that lessons had been learned, and they couldn't possibly release something half-baked. The fans just wouldn't stand for it. Would they? WOULD THEY?!!

And after the bonus disc on the Glasgow DVD, maybe we thought a corner had been turned.

Fat fucking chance.

I certainly agree with the piss poor selection. The Cure remasters, and Depeche Remasters may not be "definitive", but they at least gathered a document of the era of each album. For example, look at "Black Celebration" by DM, it all started with "Shake the Disease" which sounds nothing like what would come afterwards, with other variable songs such as "Flexible", a song as off kilter to DM as "Fine Time" is to New Order. The diversity of each era is what I, as a fan would like to have on CD. The Cure gave us Demo's which sweetened the re-release of classics like "kiss me, kiss me, kiss me" and for a band like New Order, who's singles are mostly very different compared to their album counterparts, we're not asking much. Other fans have brought up things like the early versions of "Temptation" only being available on Retro and Singles, its not hard to post them both on the PCL remaster is it? I do give the band credit for not loading the discs up with live tracks, it's still not exactly reasonable to "half ass" these releases.

all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

The thing is ... with these upcoming remasters, that the record companie(s) have to learn from mistakes made earlier. And nowadays we as die hard fans all are worried BECAUSE they didn't learn from these things since 1994 with (The Best Of) New Order.

Back then it was kinda forgiveable for us fans, because we never had any 7 inch compilation disc or so. But they kept giving us the same shit over & over again, often with the wrong song titles (Run 2)

These days we assume that they have learned their lesson(s), but we have no REASON to believe they will do a better job on the new ones.

That's what bothers me a lot.

i think the point in time has come where we just have to accept these remasters as what they actually proclaim to be ie remasters of the lp's

despite how disapointing this may be, this seems to be the case. the bonus disc is what it is. . . a bonus, with a few remastereed b'sides etc...

i personally doubt if i'll buy any/many of these as i have them now on vinyl and cd... the sound quality is not hte reason i listen to them on any particular day, and cleaning them up wont change that.....

Col

I think people are confusing what these actually are.

Seems people are expecting to have everything they ever said did or thought for a certain time period in one package. THat's not what these are: they're album reissues - that's it.

Supply is less then demand, they re-release it, hopefully slightly tweaked and improved. It's nothing new.

You also have to consider that both the label and band are also considering playing order and sequencing, repetitiveness... they probably take into account how the album will play when you listen to it from start to finish. Having every edit, remix and demo of every song is a horribly monotonous idea.

What I'd like is: (the real) Run 2 Mto, Mto (minus mix) temptation 7"

And NO SUPER-COMPRESSED 'remastering'. I don't listen to music on earbuds and I know how to operate a volume knob, thank you very much. If nothing else comes from this, I hope record companies get this through their head. If you listen Singles, then listen to the same track from an 80s issue of Substance, the difference is astounding - Singles has no subtlety or detail whatsoever. It's just maddening how record companies think this is an improvement.

And am I the only one who actually likes Retro? I'm not crazy about the 'Fan' disc but as a whole it's a great package. I love it.

-1 wrote: i don't even want to imagine the nightmare that licensing out tracks from factory/london and other labels have been through the years..

London/Warners own the New Order Factory songs...

FtotheDoubleOff wrote: I think people are confusing what these actually are.

Seems people are expecting to have everything they ever said did or thought for a certain time period in one package. THat's not what these are: they're album reissues - that's it.

Supply is less then demand, they re-release it, hopefully slightly tweaked and improved. It's nothing new.

You also have to consider that both the label and band are also considering playing order and sequencing, repetitiveness... they probably take into account how the album will play when you listen to it from start to finish. Having every edit, remix and demo of every song is a horribly monotonous idea.

What I'd like is: (the real) Run 2 Mto, Mto (minus mix) temptation 7"

I disagree with this view. All the information we've had so far has suggested a 'bonus' disc with 'stuff we've never heard'. Expanded albums.

Not just the original album remastered, but a package containing the original and bonus material. If we'd been told up front that it would just be the album, then yes, I'm sure we've had kicked off, but once again, it's a case of them just getting it plain fucking wrong. Again.

And to reiterate AGAIN. What we're asking for is not a disc of Blue Monday versions ad infinitum , but stuff that once upon a time the band did think was up for public consumption (knocking on the head this demo issue), things like Perfect Pit, Cries and Whispers and Mesh, The Happy One, Round & Round mixes.

This was all released OFFICIALLY by the band (The Happy One on the Substance Video, before anyone queries this), and is already out there. The bonus disc would have merely served to capture all of this, nice and FUCKING TIDY - A CLEAN END TO THE STORY.

Well, fuck the band and fuck Warners if this is all they can muster. They were once renowned for their packaging and presentation, and attention to detail.

Remember that comment Barney made on the BBC doc about the only time Factory got itself into trouble was when it had to interface with the real world? Well, look at what the 'real world' has got us into - a worldwide recession forecast, rising crime, increased inequality, climate change, fucking pointless expensive wars all over the shop. Fuck that, give me a bit of naive idealism every fucking time - it keeps me sane and hopeful. Which is pretty far from how I'm feeling about how this project has been managed

Emile Strunz wrote: Fuck that, give me a bit of naive idealism every fucking time - it keeps me sane and hopeful.

I agree with this!

Emile Strunz wrote:

FtotheDoubleOff wrote: I think people are confusing what these actually are.

Seems people are expecting to have everything they ever said did or thought for a certain time period in one package. THat's not what these are: they're album reissues - that's it.

Supply is less then demand, they re-release it, hopefully slightly tweaked and improved. It's nothing new.

You also have to consider that both the label and band are also considering playing order and sequencing, repetitiveness... they probably take into account how the album will play when you listen to it from start to finish. Having every edit, remix and demo of every song is a horribly monotonous idea.

What I'd like is: (the real) Run 2 Mto, Mto (minus mix) temptation 7"

I disagree with this view. All the information we've had so far has suggested a 'bonus' disc with 'stuff we've never heard'. Expanded albums.

Not just the original album remastered, but a package containing the original and bonus material. If we'd been told up front that it would just be the album, then yes, I'm sure we've had kicked off, but once again, it's a case of them just getting it plain fucking wrong. Again.

And to reiterate AGAIN. What we're asking for is not a disc of Blue Monday versions ad infinitum , but stuff that once upon a time the band did think was up for public consumption (knocking on the head this demo issue), things like Perfect Pit, Cries and Whispers and Mesh, The Happy One, Round & Round mixes.

This was all released OFFICIALLY by the band (The Happy One on the Substance Video, before anyone queries this), and is already out there. The bonus disc would have merely served to capture all of this, nice and FUCKING TIDY - A CLEAN END TO THE STORY.

Well, fuck the band and fuck Warners if this is all they can muster. They were once renowned for their packaging and presentation, and attention to detail.

Remember that comment Barney made on the BBC doc about the only time Factory got itself into trouble was when it had to interface with the real world? Well, look at what the 'real world' has got us into - a worldwide recession forecast, rising crime, increased inequality, climate change, fucking pointless expensive wars all over the shop. Fuck that, give me a bit of naive idealism every fucking time - it keeps me sane and hopeful. Which is pretty far from how I'm feeling about how this project has been managed

Absolutely agree with Emile's post.

I also think the remastering will brick out all the dynamics of the original recordings, so fuck that too.

My money will be spent on much better things in life.

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Release Date:22/10/2008

Movement (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Ceremony
2. Temptation
3. In A Lonley Place
4. EGG
5. Procession
6. Mesh
7. Hurt (WPCR13166)

PC&L (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Blue Monday
2. The Beach
3. Confusion
4. Thieves Like Us
5. Lonesome Tonight
6. Murder
7. Thieves Like Us (Inst.) (WPCR13168)

Low-Life (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. The Perfect Kiss
2. Sub-Culture
3. Shellshock
4. State of the Nation
5. Elegia
6. Let's Go
7. Salvation Theme (WPCR13170)

Brotherhood (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. BLT
2. 1963
3. True Faith
4. Touched by the Hand of God
5. Blue Monday 88
6. Evil Dust
7. True Dub (WPCR13172)

Technique (HMV Japan) [Disc 2]

1. Don't Do It
2. Fine Line
3. Round & Round
4. Best & Marsh
5. World in Motion
6. Run 2
7. MTO
8. Vanishing Point (Inst.)
9. Fine Time (WPCR13174)

Is there going to be a Substance Collectors Edition as well, as suggested on Play.com? http://www.play.com/Music/CD/4-/5607174/Substance/Product.html

Emile Strunz wrote: Remember that comment Barney made on the BBC doc about the only time Factory got itself into trouble was when it had to interface with the real world? Well, look at what the 'real world' has got us into - a worldwide recession forecast, rising crime, increased inequality, climate change...

Factory Records are responsible for climate change??? Must be all the cardboard they wasted when they cut out the holes from the Blue Monday sleeves.....

Colin Simpson wrote: the bonus disc is what it is. . . a bonus, with a few remastereed b'sides etc...

What "bonus"? It would only be a friggin' "bonus" if they'd charge us the price of a single CD... wich they won't, just look at the price tags! If a single CD costs about 8 or 9 quid and the remasters are priced 15 quid, don't you think a 40 minute long "bonus" CD is a bit, dare I say it, pricey?

(I'm using play.com prices for reference)

coney island baby wrote: all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

Apparently that's what a New Order fan listens to. Add Erasure & the Pet Shop Boys

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

Received this today - nice hearing these different versions! (Haven't heard most of them since they haven't been made digital yet).

God how I wish they went ahead with the entire "Recycle" project.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

coney island baby wrote: all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

Apparently that's what a New Order fan listens to. Add Erasure & the Pet Shop Boys

I hate all of those bands...

He says, adding helpfully to the debate

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote:

Ryan wrote: Is there a torrent up for the "Excerpts From Recycle" promo CD anywhere? I'd buy this one currently on eBay (here), but the likelihood of me being awake to win it is slim.

Someone posted a link to "Mesh" the other day. A link to this promo would also be appreciated!

Alternatively, if I do win the disc, I'd be happy to provide it to anyone who wants it when it arrives.

Just won it. Will share when it arrives.

Received this today - nice hearing these different versions! (Haven't heard most of them since they haven't been made digital yet).

God how I wish they went ahead with the entire "Recycle" project.

Oh yeah.....giggity

RichShan wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

coney island baby wrote: all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

Apparently that's what a New Order fan listens to. Add Erasure & the Pet Shop Boys

I hate all of those bands...

He says, adding helpfully to the debate

I know it doesn't add to the debate, but I second your sentiments. I detest those bands. In fact, I would say New Order might be the only band I listen to that could be vaguely classified as Electronica (or use a drum machine for that matter apart from hip-hop). Yet somehow they're my favorite band (or at least tied with Pavement). Go figure.

Initially I was disappointed, but on reflection this is good news as I don't have to buy any of them. Another example of London/Warners not getting it right, I don't imagine New Order themselves have much input over what's included on these remasters, unlike the days of Factory when it was just Wilson and co and they could do pretty much what they liked. Once they handed their back catalogue over to a major label it was always going to be handled badly just like everyone else.

Suzuki wrote:

RichShan wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

coney island baby wrote: all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

Apparently that's what a New Order fan listens to. Add Erasure & the Pet Shop Boys

I hate all of those bands...

He says, adding helpfully to the debate

I know it doesn't add to the debate, but I second your sentiments. I detest those bands. In fact, I would say New Order might be the only band I listen to that could be vaguely classified as Electronica (or use a drum machine for that matter apart from hip-hop). Yet somehow they're my favorite band (or at least tied with Pavement). Go figure.

Well you can hate them, I was just using them as a reference of a remaster done right. Well, not exactly right, but at least worthy of repurchasing a pre-owned album.

michael preda wrote:

Suzuki wrote:

RichShan wrote:

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote:

coney island baby wrote: all these mentions to The cure and Depeche Mode :dead:

Apparently that's what a New Order fan listens to. Add Erasure & the Pet Shop Boys

I hate all of those bands...

He says, adding helpfully to the debate

I know it doesn't add to the debate, but I second your sentiments. I detest those bands. In fact, I would say New Order might be the only band I listen to that could be vaguely classified as Electronica (or use a drum machine for that matter apart from hip-hop). Yet somehow they're my favorite band (or at least tied with Pavement). Go figure.

Well you can hate them, I was just using them as a reference of a remaster done right. Well, not exactly right, but at least worthy of repurchasing a pre-owned album.

I LOVE Depeche Mode, The Cure, and the Pet Shop Boys, Quality bands who wrote quality songs. PSB especially write quality songs.

Oh, I love New Order/Joy Division too.

And PIL. And The Smiths. And the Buzzcocks. And Patti Smith.

And Al Green. And Marvin Gaye. And Parliament Funkdelic.

And Mozart. And Ennio Morricone.

Cause good music is good music. :)

And to be fair...the PSB reissues set a new standard...I remember when they came out....everyone was talking about how quality they were.

The Cure remasters the same.

And for New Order......a band of New Order's stature and history should really be offering something more than most of the B Sides that are on Substance.

I mean hell, even live stuff (which I love) would be better than what they are offering.

These reissues are quite dissappointing.

So who's betting there's a new greatest hits out at christmas with Blue Monday 2008 on it?

Seriously, im suprised anyone thought they'd get any more than this to be honest! We've all got our own opinion of what should have been included, but i doubt anybody would've wanted this - main reason i could see is there should be a re-master of Substance in this lot, after all its full of stuff not on the sodding albums in the first place!

Would've liked Movement to include a second disc of the album remixed by the band themselves.

As for the other albums, i think i'd have prefered single disc editions with nothing more than a decent re-mastered audio.

All the "rare" stuff could be collected on a 2 disc album released seperately - or even just made available on iTunes. Looks like i'll be waiting for these to hit HMV's 3 for £20 sales.

Steve One wrote: So who's betting there's a new greatest hits out at christmas with Blue Monday 2008 on it?

Seriously, im suprised anyone thought they'd get any more than this to be honest! We've all got our own opinion of what should have been included, but i doubt anybody would've wanted this - main reason i could see is there should be a re-master of Substance in this lot, after all its full of stuff not on the sodding albums in the first place!

Would've liked Movement to include a second disc of the album remixed by the band themselves.

As for the other albums, i think i'd have prefered single disc editions with nothing more than a decent re-mastered audio.

All the "rare" stuff could be collected on a 2 disc album released seperately - or even just made available on iTunes. Looks like i'll be waiting for these to hit HMV's 3 for £20 sales.

Apart from BM2008

Just abandon hope now. We all know we are going to get digitally processed tracks from a CD, not the actual master tapes, just like what happened with Retro.

Blue Monday will STILL have that right channel drop out at 2:25 like Substance, or the missing drum beat cut off from the actual remastered version.

Perfect Kiss will STILL be missing those 40 instrumental seconds

Truth will STILL have the first few drum beats cut off in the beginning

Cries and Whispers will once again be mislabeled as Mesh (there's enough room to fit both tracks, but only one is listed)

True Faith will STILL have those tiny digital skips throughout the song

Both Sub-Culture and Shellshock 12" will be the Substance edits

Seems like the only effort being made them putting Run 2 and MTO with Technique, though I'll laugh my ass off if John Denver sues them from his grave and they have to remove it.

I won't be purchasing these as well. In fact, we should all just download and pirate them out of spite.

May I ask you Re-Member, how do you know all this?!

We don't have this information yet, so where is this/your source please?! ...

The tracklisting is wrong by the way. It's not a million miles away from this but wrong nonetheless. Just wait and see.

I'm just basing this on the two currently released track listings and the dodgy "remastered" job they did with Retro.

I'd like to be proved wrong, but my reasoning still stands till they are actually released.

I'm HOPING that the rediscovery of many of the masters in Rob's secret vault will herald a return of sound quality. Think about it, the Joy Division box sounded great and had a lot of rare and previously unavailable stuff on it. After Rob died, the quality of any reissues diminished. Although Rob's not around to guide any of this stuff, they have recently found his secret stash. Maybe a lot of the more recent reissues sucked in terms of sound quality because they simply didn't have access to the tapes. Just speculation, but optimistic nonetheless.

Amazon JP UK/London CD Release date: 9/29 (no tracklistings/Movement now)

PC&L

Low-Life

Brotherhood

Technique

Re-Member, if you base your opinion on the currently remasters track lists, it's wrong, because the time of those tracks are still missing. It could be any version, even the full 12 inches. I agree with you that Blue Monday has that volume drop out on all past releases which is really irritating and the unforgiveable missing 48 seconds from The Perfect Kiss. Subculture & Shellshock are missing MINUTES on Substance 1987 so let's hope for a better job this time. I'm still staying positive, but with a pityful eye.

The only thing I hope is that the people who are responsible for this job, will read these forums.

Besides, I also hope that the remasters are going to be a REAL upgrade this time. for instance: I didn't buy Singles because the only "upgrade" on that one was the volume which is quite propostorous. And I don't want to discuss Retro because this whole project (again) was an insult for the real fan.

I'll buy the Low Life one simply for the fact my old CD of it is absolutely knackered these days.Same for when they get round to releasing the Republic re master.

Danimal wrote: I'm HOPING that the rediscovery of many of the masters in Rob's secret vault will herald a return of sound quality. Think about it, the Joy Division box sounded great and had a lot of rare and previously unavailable stuff on it. After Rob died, the quality of any reissues diminished. Although Rob's not around to guide any of this stuff, they have recently found his secret stash. Maybe a lot of the more recent reissues sucked in terms of sound quality because they simply didn't have access to the tapes. Just speculation, but optimistic nonetheless.

If we go by what Hooky said, he was blown away by the remastering of the PCL tracks.

referring to factory...

Emile Strunz wrote: They were once renowned for their packaging and presentation, and attention to detail.

when was this?

starting from 'ceremony' (two different releases), different pressings of the 7inch, etc. several misprints of all the albums, art projects gone bad (blue monday cover having issues), different countrys getting different tracks, and different track names (shellshock(dub)),

when has there ever been attention to detail?

EVERY SINGLE RELEASE HAS HAD ISSUES, not to mention EVERY COMPILATION, RE-ISSUE, and REMASTER..[substance, best of, rest of, international, singles...etc]

so what exactly were you expecting?

Cilla Jack wrote: Initially I was disappointed, but on reflection this is good news as I don't have to buy any of them. Another example of London/Warners not getting it right, I don't imagine New Order themselves have much input over what's included on these remasters, unlike the days of Factory when it was just Wilson and co and they could do pretty much what they liked. Once they handed their back catalogue over to a major label it was always going to be handled badly just like everyone else.

once again, when did you ever think FACTORY had things under control?

i've bought tons of there stuff that prove otherwise..

later -1

-1 wrote: different track names (shellshock(dub))

Probably because the Americans didn't like the idea of putting "Shellcock" on a single? :p

Quite why "Bizarre Dub Triangle" was called "I Don't Care" in the States, who knows? Possibly because they didn't care? :)

-1 wrote: several misprints of all the albums

Every band has these, even The Cure/Depeche Mode...

-1 wrote: art projects gone bad (blue monday cover having issues)

Issues? You mean that they made a penny profit less than they could have done?

(And, no, the often quoted story of them losing money on every release is fantasy - they just made less of a profit on each release)

-1 wrote: different countrys getting different tracks

Record company decisions - I'm guessing you mean why did they put "Blue Monday"/"The Beach" on the US album? Because they could... :)

Nick King wrote:

-1 wrote: several misprints of all the albums

Every band has these, even The Cure/Depeche Mode...

yeah, but they didn't have the 'factory' stamp of approval on them, which was my point..

Nick King wrote:

-1 wrote: art projects gone bad (blue monday cover having issues)

Issues? You mean that they made a penny profit less than they could have done?

of course, i realize that, i meant that since it was tricky doing it right the original way, they had to change it to a simpler version later on, if they were able to maintain quality control and do it right originally, they wouldn't have had this problem..

Nick King wrote:

-1 wrote: different countrys getting different tracks

Record company decisions - I'm guessing you mean why did they put "Blue Monday"/"The Beach" on the US album? Because they could... :)

so, where is the attention to detail there either?

some versions are complete, some aren't, some have the full tracks, some are editted etc, etc, etc..

i still want to know when anyone EVER considered FACTORY releases to stand for quality....(and no, i don't collect 'joy division', so i can't talk about those)..

later -1

Amazon UK Release: 29 Sep 2008 Label: London PC&L Low-Life Brotherhood Technique

once again, when did you ever think FACTORY had things under control?

i've bought tons of there stuff that prove otherwise..

later -1

Well, I agree Factory could be chaotic but I preferred their inadequacies to London/Warners' cack-handed methods. I don't think it was ever Factory's intention to rip fans off.

Amazon US

PC&L Low-Life Brotherhood Technique September 30, 2008

-1 wrote: referring to factory...

Emile Strunz wrote: They were once renowned for their packaging and presentation, and attention to detail.

when was this?

ignoring the last part, you cannot disagree that the packaging & presentation was second to none.

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Amazon US

PC&L Low-Life Brotherhood Technique September 30, 2008

Those prices have got to be wrong. Seriously.

Well I guess I'll buy Technique as i don;t think I have MTO (in fact i don;t think i've ever heard it! Presumably its an alternative version of Fine Time with different Lyrics) But you know, call me a sloppy fan (despite the fact that I bought Blue Monday in 83 before my 12th birthday), but I'm not that obsessed about a few extra seconds on some of the tracks that people seem to be so keen to get their hands on. What I REALLY wanna know is WTF is happening with the Sirens tracks??? I know the album is only 3 years old but, really a "remaster" with those seven bonus tracks is what i want. You know - songs we have NEVER heard, that's what gets me interested. Can Tim , Hooky, anyone let us know when we can hear them?! I know I'm boring but I wanna hear these new SONGS, I've got enough mixes already!!

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Amazon US

PC&L Low-Life Brotherhood Technique September 30, 2008

$44. Plus shipping. For each album.

Do they expect New Order fans in the US to spend upwards of $200 on four albums with slightly better audio quality and a couple of "rare" tracks that have been floating around in various forms for ages?

I've been reading this thread for a while. I can't say I am excited by any of the content on the reissues. Hooky's comments on the re-masters, as well as the quality Glasgow+bonus DVDs which were a pleasant surprise, raised my hopes, and I would love to have some brilliant CDs to replace my old copies. But never mind.

Debaser wrote: Well I guess I'll buy Technique as i don;t think I have MTO (in fact i don;t think i've ever heard it! Presumably its an alternative version of Fine Time with different Lyrics)

no, MTO is an original instrumental, that uses the sample 'you got love technique' , if you search google you can find it..

if you want to hear a sample of it streaming (7"), i worked on a fan project call international 2, and someone digitized it here (DONT PAY FOR IT)..

track 42 http://mp3aim.com/New_Order/International_2_Radio_Promo_/mp3/65226245673/

why didn't you look in the multimedia section? the full 7" version is here: http://www.neworderonline.com/Multimedia/MediaList.aspx?MediaTypeID=1&MediaCategoryID=5

later -1

Aries wrote:

Tokoloshe Man wrote: Amazon US

PC&L Low-Life Brotherhood Technique September 30, 2008

Those prices have got to be wrong. Seriously.

not really, if they're for the import...in which case, i'd rather just buy those straight from the uk sites, ebay, or some other retailer...

if the US versions come out they'll be cheaper, and of course if you wait a couple of weeks, used copies, promo's etc will make it out..

later -1

ok -1, thanks. I have listened... Not very good though eh? Maybe I won't bother with the technique remaster after all.

It was a sort of reverse-advertising situation. Now I know what it is I WONT be buying it!

Debaser wrote: ok -1, thanks. I have listened... Not very good though eh? Maybe I won't bother with the technique remaster after all.

It was a sort of reverse-advertising situation. Now I know what it is I WONT be buying it!

mto was actually cool at the time for doing techno/electro...the 12" mix is decent..

if you really want a lot of their extra tracks. just ask/look on this board.. you will find:

excerpts from recycle (boot) - lots of cool tracks 800 Meg file of new order mixes if you want the 80+ tracks from my fan project, ask around, someone will make a copy for you..

seriously, yes you would like to pay 'new order', and their company for their product, but a lot of it can't be found...

so at least you can 'sample' it, and if you decide to collect their stuff (i have 99% of the originals), you can go buy it on ebay/amazon/buy sell area of this board, etc..

later -1