Anybody heard the remasters yet?

I just wondered if anyone had heard the promos yet? Quite interested how they sound. Apologies if this has already been discussed.

Yes, they sound like the old masters.

are these remastering jobs from the original session tapes?

I really think Movement in particular would benefit from someone sitting down with the multitrack masters and giving it a proper remixing. The mix is soupy and doesn't reflect how the songs sounded live. I'm pretty happy with how the other albums generally sound.

dave soligo wrote: are these remastering jobs from the original session tapes?

I really think Movement in particular would benefit from someone sitting down with the multitrack masters and giving it a proper remixing. The mix is soupy and doesn't reflect how the songs sounded live. I'm pretty happy with how the other albums generally sound.

I believe the recordings will be remastered from the Master Tapes.

michael preda wrote:

dave soligo wrote: are these remastering jobs from the original session tapes?

I really think Movement in particular would benefit from someone sitting down with the multitrack masters and giving it a proper remixing. The mix is soupy and doesn't reflect how the songs sounded live. I'm pretty happy with how the other albums generally sound.

I believe the recordings will be remastered from the Master Tapes.

I hope so, but don't really expect it. After all, they should have done it before with Retro but they didn't. See my post about the mastering errors in True Faith in the remasters official tracklisting thread...

Ben wrote:

michael preda wrote:

dave soligo wrote: are these remastering jobs from the original session tapes?

I really think Movement in particular would benefit from someone sitting down with the multitrack masters and giving it a proper remixing. The mix is soupy and doesn't reflect how the songs sounded live. I'm pretty happy with how the other albums generally sound.

I believe the recordings will be remastered from the Master Tapes.

I hope so, but don't really expect it. After all, they should have done it before with Retro but they didn't. See my post about the mastering errors in True Faith in the remasters official tracklisting thread...

About True Faith: that's why they didn't include the Stephen Hague-version instead of the Shep Pettibone one on the bonus disc I think.

Luke wrote:

Ben wrote:

michael preda wrote:

dave soligo wrote: are these remastering jobs from the original session tapes?

I really think Movement in particular would benefit from someone sitting down with the multitrack masters and giving it a proper remixing. The mix is soupy and doesn't reflect how the songs sounded live. I'm pretty happy with how the other albums generally sound.

I believe the recordings will be remastered from the Master Tapes.

I hope so, but don't really expect it. After all, they should have done it before with Retro but they didn't. See my post about the mastering errors in True Faith in the remasters official tracklisting thread...

About True Faith: that's why they didn't include the Stephen Hague-version instead of the Shep Pettibone one on the bonus disc I think.

That's exactly what I believe :\ohwell:. But in this case, they should have included the 94 version of TF instead. The difference between it and the original 12" version is barely noticeable (apart from the 18 last seconds chopped off). It actually IS a properly remastered version.

His Holiness, The Pope wrote: Yes, they sound like the old masters.

They are supposed to sound like the factory versions & are mastered from the original tapes

I have heard pcl. Sounds good, better than the original in my oppinion!

The Factory CDs had some drop-outs and other brutal errors that weren't on the vinyl releases (Senses and True Faith*, and others). It will be easy to tell: if those errors are gone, then it's likely to be a bona fide remastering job from the original tapes. If the errors are still there, it is obviously just a CD rip and software filtering/compression job, I.E. a pointless exercise in taking stuff out, as opposed to putting the detail back in. Any 14-year old kid with Audacity could do that.

If you got the promo discs, please step up and tell us, so we can decide if we should cancel our preorders!

* See observation above. Very worrying, if that is the case.

Heres an interesting article from Sound on Sound that detailed the recent Depeche Mode remasters and the kind of work that was entailed (for 5.1 audio, in their case).http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov07/articles/dm_surround.htm

If they put as much effort into these remasters as DM did (in other words, if they did them right), then I'll buy them. If they just compressed the fuck out of them so they sound loud as hell and have no dynamic range, then I won't go anywhere near them. The "bonus tracks" will have little or no effect on that decision.

anybody heard them yet? apparently not.

Chase wrote: If they put as much effort into these remasters as DM did (in other words, if they did them right), then I'll buy them.

too bad, all those 5.1 versions were just gimmicks that added nothing to the quality of the sound..

the only remasters worth getting were the first few, since the rest (from music for the masses on) were already digitally mastered... and didnt need it..

the stereo mixes were enough..

later -1

-1 wrote:

Chase wrote: If they put as much effort into these remasters as DM did (in other words, if they did them right), then I'll buy them.

too bad, all those 5.1 versions were just gimmicks that added nothing to the quality of the sound..

the only remasters worth getting were the first few, since the rest (from music for the masses on) were already digitally mastered... and didnt need it..

the stereo mixes were enough..

later -1

The remastered Violator sounds as flat as a fucking pancake, which is surely the work of a destructive genius, given the production talent involved on the original.

I actually couldn't care less about the 5.1 mixes (I'd forgotten about them), I'm really talking about the Black Celebration remaster, which I was pretty happy with.

Remastering Violator seems like a...violation. Completely unnecessary.

The only copy of Black Celebration I ever owned was on 'chrome' cassette. It sounded bloody awful!

-1 wrote:

Chase wrote: If they put as much effort into these remasters as DM did (in other words, if they did them right), then I'll buy them.

too bad, all those 5.1 versions were just gimmicks that added nothing to the quality of the sound..

the only remasters worth getting were the first few, since the rest (from music for the masses on) were already digitally mastered... and didnt need it..

the stereo mixes were enough..

later -1

Imho, the Music for the Masses remaster is very good and the sound is much better than the original. Behind the Wheel, for instance, is significantly improved.

I don't agree with your opinion on the 5.1 versions. Although some albums are not as good as we would ahve expected, there are some gems (A Broken Frame and Ultra spring to my mind).

However, I must admit that they failed to hit with Violator.

Ben wrote:

Imho, the Music for the Masses remaster is very good and the sound is much better than the original. Behind the Wheel, for instance, is significantly improved.

I don't agree with your opinion on the 5.1 versions. Although some albums are not as good as we would ahve expected, there are some gems (A Broken Frame and Ultra spring to my mind).

However, I must admit that they failed to hit with Violator.

what do you like about the 5.1 versions?

the music was never originally created that way, that's why its sound wrong.

how many people have 5.1 setups? and how many people listen to their music that way?

it's not like it was a LIVE dvd, where it might work with surround ... this is studio sound faked to sound like it's 5.1 ...

its a waste of time to spend on making music sound like this, unless it was originally made in surround..

later -1

-1 wrote:

Ben wrote:

Imho, the Music for the Masses remaster is very good and the sound is much better than the original. Behind the Wheel, for instance, is significantly improved.

I don't agree with your opinion on the 5.1 versions. Although some albums are not as good as we would ahve expected, there are some gems (A Broken Frame and Ultra spring to my mind).

However, I must admit that they failed to hit with Violator.

what do you like about the 5.1 versions?

the music was never originally created that way, that's why its sound wrong.

how many people have 5.1 setups? and how many people listen to their music that way?

it's not like it was a LIVE dvd, where it might work with surround ... this is studio sound faked to sound like it's 5.1 ...

its a waste of time to spend on making music sound like this, unless it was originally made in surround..

later -1

First, from a technical point of view, in DM's case, it is not faked 5.1. If you read the paper mentioned above, you'll discover that the sound engineers created brand new surround masters from the original material (multitrack master tapes, floppies, DAT, etc.). They re-made all the mixing and mastering work from scratch, creating genuine 5.1 mixes, hence your argument that "the music was never originally created that way" makes no sense here (as the creation of a 5.1 version always happens during mixing and not during recording). It's deffinitely not like using some DSP effect to create a surround effect from a stereo mix. I've got a high-end hi-fi setup (NAD DVD player and 5.1 receiver with Focal speakers) which allows me to play actual 5.1 mixes or re-create 5.1 effects from stereo recordings using the best available algorithms (Dolby Pro Logic II, EARS, etc.). I can tell you that these algorithms, as powerful as they are, simply don't bear the comparison. Conclusion: what we're talking about are high-quality 5.1 mixes in accordance to the highest existing standards (they're not less true 5.1 than, e.g., Playing the Angel).

Secondly, to answer you first question: what I like about these 5.1 versions is that they offer me a totally different listening experience. I really feel surrounded by the music, as if I were bathing inside of it, as if I were lost in a universe of aural sensations. I don't feel like that when I'm listening to the stereo versions of the same albums, not even if I use the above mentioned DSP effects to recreate a surround sound.

However, many people are totally insensitive to this (some are even insensitive to music - poor ones :( ). Also worth mentioning, most 5.1 setups are not designed for music but for movies. You should never try to play your 5.1 DM mixes with those, as they would sound incredibly bad.

I for one regret that 5.1 music is not more popular. Apart from live DVDs, the only 5.1 music I own is by Depeche Mode, REM and Hooverphonic.

BTW, I'm trying to find out how I could extract the 6-channel tracks from the Depeche DVDs and burn menu-free Dolby 5.1 or DTS DVD-Audio with them. It's really annoying to have to turn on the TV and browse through several menus before the music starts. Can somebody help me?

Ben wrote:

First, from a technical point of view, in DM's case, it is not faked 5.1. If you read the paper mentioned above, you'll discover that the sound engineers created brand new surround masters from the original material (multitrack master tapes, floppies, DAT, etc.).

thanks for the reply ben,

what i meant is that i have heard the stereo mixes for over 2 decades+ now for some of those albums, and now trying to hear them in 5.1 is just all different, maybe not 'wrong'..

However, many people are totally insensitive to this (some are even insensitive to music - poor ones :( ). Also worth mentioning, most 5.1 setups are not designed for music but for movies. You should never try to play your 5.1 DM mixes with those, as they would sound incredibly bad.

I for one regret that 5.1 music is not more popular. Apart from live DVDs, the only 5.1 music I own is by Depeche Mode, REM and Hooverphonic.

i totally agree, about the setup for music in surround, not being correct ..

i have stuff in surround like, kraftwerk-live, the eagles-live, steely dan, simple minds, abc, duran duran-live, and the bjork surround boxset..

most of those are live, so i don't mind them so much...

BTW, I'm trying to find out how I could extract the 6-channel tracks from the Depeche DVDs and burn menu-free Dolby 5.1 or DTS DVD-Audio with them. It's really annoying to have to turn on the TV and browse through several menus before the music starts. Can somebody help me?

you might try a couple of programs..

to extract, i use http://www.castudio.org/dvdaudioextractor/

it has a 30 day trial, excellent program..

Support all DVD audio formats
DVD Audio Extractor can decode all the audio formats available on DVD-Video: Dolby Digital (AC-3), MPEG1/2, Linear PCM (any 16, 20 or 24 bit, 48000 or 96000 Hz sample rate, 1 to 8 channels), and DTS (Digital Theater Systems).

DVD Audio Extractor is able to encode to several formats: OGG (Mono, Stereo or 5.1 Surround), MP3 (Mono, Stereo or Joint Stereo), Uncompressed PCM Wave (unlimited channel, with an option to save each channel to separate file), and FLAC. You can also demux audio stream from the DVD stream and save them as separate files.

The software also comes with CD Image creating feature allows you to convert DVD to Audio CD in one step.

to burn,

then use : http://www.audio-dvd-creator.com/

Import 96kHz/24bits WAV files, and keep the superb quality.

Import Windows Media Format(.wma, .wmv, .asf), Real Media(.rm), OGG, FLAC, AC3 and AVI files via DirectShow Filters

Import AC3 5.1ch or AC3 2ch files, and export them to Audio DVD without quality loss.

Use Matrix Mixer to convert 2ch audio input to AC3 5.1ch outp

later -1

Hi -1,

Thanks for your help with the decoding/encoding programs. I managed to get 6 channels .ac3 files using some audio extraction software, but Nero doesn't recognise them. The other program you mention could then be the solution for burning DVD-A. I'm gonna try it.

Am I a bit late with this? but pitchfork media has reported the news of the remasters. but their rundown of the track listing does not list state of the nation as being on the bonus disc of Low-Life. Instead it lists Shame of the Nation

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/144830-new-order-deluxe-reissues-revealed

are they wrong, or has someone else already mentioned this?

i am getting promos for my two favorite new order albums, next week:

power corruption and lies low-life

i'll give complete detailed analysis of them..

if someone doesnt do it already..

i think there are least 3 people on here that have the promos...

help us out !!!!!!!!!!

later -1

Sorry,cant help, still waiting for all 5 promos, Ive bought last week.

Der Chris wrote: Sorry,cant help, still waiting for all 5 promos, Ive bought last week.

Still waiting for all 5 of mine too!

I'll pick them up from the post office tomorrow and post my results.

poorshakes wrote: Am I a bit late with this? but pitchfork media has reported the news of the remasters. but their rundown of the track listing does not list state of the nation as being on the bonus disc of Low-Life. Instead it lists Shame of the Nation

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/144830-new-order-deluxe-reissues-revealed

are they wrong, or has someone else already mentioned this?

That tracklist looks corrected to me, should be reliable. You'll see Temptation listed twice as 12" and alternate 12" versions, Cries And Whispers/Mesh switched round (from the promos). Though they still have SOTN on Brotherhood (which it wasn't) and TF down as 'True Dub', which it isn't unless they've switched it.

I still can't believe this whole project ends with a mix of World in Motion.

DJ Diamond wrote: I still can't believe this whole project ends with a mix of World in Motion.

err, what should it end on?

later -1

poorshakes wrote: Am I a bit late with this? but pitchfork media has reported the news of the remasters. but their rundown of the track listing does not list state of the nation as being on the bonus disc of Low-Life. Instead it lists Shame of the Nation

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/news/144830-new-order-deluxe-reissues-revealed

are they wrong, or has someone else already mentioned this?

That tracklisting makes a lot more sense to me. I always thought that London Records (or Rhino) just COULDN'T list the same song TWICE on separate albums. That track on the bonus disc of Low Life must have been Shame Of The Nation all the time.

I'm also excited to find out that they talk about the Temptation 12 inch AND the 87 (new) Substance-version. It appears that both not have been forgotten, but it's a bit weird to put the 'new' 87-version on the Movement bonus disc. If you ask me, it belongs on the bonus disc of Brotherhood, but okay ... I'll forgive them.

-1 wrote:

DJ Diamond wrote: I still can't believe this whole project ends with a mix of World in Motion.

err, what should it end on?

later -1

Well that, chronologically speaking.

But it's different to everything else in so many ways and I don't feel as though it belongs on the same cd as the rest of the Technique era goodies.

I'm not going to let it get me down. Just saying.

http://www.amazon.de/Low-Life-CollectorS-New-Order/dp/B001ECE4DW/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1221254941&sr=1-3

4. Shame Of The Nation

And the bonus disc for Movement says:

10. Temptation [12" Mix]

Just look here:

http://www.amazon.de/Movement-CollectorS-New-Order/dp/B001EMPUGM/ref=pd_sim_m_3

Reading the above comments it looks like some of you guys have bought the promos. I was hoping by now that someone would have received them and be able to comment on the sound quality ....anybody????

Haven't got the promos, so can't comment on sound quality...

Intrigued on how Brotherhood remastered sounds like, but nobody seems to know????

i'm hoping i will know next week, but only for:

power corruption and lies low-life

later -1

Something akin to the recent JD remasters is about the best we can hope for, really. Those were definitely on the loud side, but not compressed too badly.

Worst case scenario would be something akin to "Singles".

Got all the promos yesterday. I think, theyve done a good job. Its like the JD remastered, its definitive louder and the sounds is clearer. But there is only Temptation 12" 7:01 on the Movement bonus-disc, there are only 9 tracks. And 2 songs I dont know on PC&L bonus-disc: Theives like us:)

Der Chris wrote: Got all the promos yesterday. I think, theyve done a good job. Its like the JD remastered, its definitive louder and the sounds is clearer. But there is only Temptation 12" 7:01 on the Movement bonus-disc, there are only 9 tracks. And 2 songs I dont know on PC&L bonus-disc: Theives like us:)

Thanks for the reply Chris.

Any chance of posting an EAC waveform ? This would at least give us an idea of how maximised these remasters are.

How does Low-Life sound - my original 1985 Factory CD (with pre-emphasis) has always sounded awful.

Adam Tate wrote:

Der Chris wrote: Got all the promos yesterday. I think, theyve done a good job. Its like the JD remastered, its definitive louder and the sounds is clearer. But there is only Temptation 12" 7:01 on the Movement bonus-disc, there are only 9 tracks. And 2 songs I dont know on PC&L bonus-disc: Theives like us:)

Thanks for the reply Chris.

Any chance of posting an EAC waveform ? This would at least give us an idea of how maximised these remasters are.

How does Low-Life sound - my original 1985 Factory CD (with pre-emphasis) has always sounded awful.

The sound of Low-life is better as the sound of other Low-life CDs in my collection. But Im not able to post a EAC waveform, because I dont know what it means.Im only a collector, not a computer-freak.

eac, is a free program that rips cds accurately..

here's a sample of the waveforms. http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/en/index.php/overview/sound-editor/

yeah, i'd be interested in seeing how they look too..

later -1

Der Chris wrote: Got all the promos yesterday. I think, theyve done a good job. Its like the JD remastered, its definitive louder and the sounds is clearer. But there is only Temptation 12" 7:01 on the Movement bonus-disc, there are only 9 tracks. And 2 songs I dont know on PC&L bonus-disc: Theives like us:)

Could you possibly let us know if the track "Truth" on Movement still has the first few beats missing like all the other CD versions, or that's been fully restored to match the vinyl.

This would be the deal breaker for me. They seem to have cleared up issues I had with Temptation-87 being on Movement and State of the Nation appearing on two different sets, so I just might be getting these after all if the Recycle project is complete to cover the mixes I don't have.

Truth is the same like all other CD-versions.

It's actually Senses that has the start cut off, not Truth.

jamie fairlie wrote: It's actually Senses that has the start cut off, not Truth.

Right. Senses on the promo don`t miss the first 2 seconds:)

jamie fairlie wrote: It's actually Senses that has the start cut off, not Truth.

I'm 99.9% certain that it is the song "Truth" that is cut off, which is the second track on Movement. It's the slower, gloomy sounding song that starts off with the drum machine. I had this on cassette and it wasn't cut, plus you can hear where it was cut by comparing it to the Peel version which uses the same drum machine sequence.

Also, are the following songs the full length 12" versions, or the Substance edits?

Hurt The Perfect Kiss Sub-Culture Shellshock

Re-Member wrote:

jamie fairlie wrote: It's actually Senses that has the start cut off, not Truth.

I'm 99.9% certain that it is the song "Truth" that is cut off, which is the second track on Movement. It's the slower, gloomy sounding song that starts off with the drum machine. I had this on cassette and it wasn't cut, plus you can hear where it was cut by comparing it to the Peel version which uses the same drum machine sequence.

Just checked - it's Senses that has the start cut off. The CD intro beats to Truth sound a bit fast compared to the rest of the track, but they do on the vinyl also...

Does Blue Monday have any beats missing at the beginning?

Aries wrote: Does Blue Monday have any beats missing at the beginning?

unfortunately it does on the promo..

there's 2 chances to fix it..

1. the UK release
2. the later US release..

see my review of 'power, corruption, and lies', and 'low-life' posted on this board..

for more detailed information..

later -1

is there any wind sounds on the remasters?

Windy wrote: is there any wind sounds on the remasters?

yeah, they really blow.