Article: Hook 'won't release lost Joy Division song'

It wasn't meant to be funny.

That's actually pretty cool. Even listening to the track after so long much have been an experience for him. I've been reading Mick Middles's book about Factory, which covers the pre-signed and pre-Hannett band very extensively. Hard to imagine this now. Before all the nonsense, the tragedies, the financial and emotional mess, the arguments and the autocue. Before this place became full of people intent on criticising their every move (hard as it is to imagine such a time) there was a band and they played some songs and some of them were good.

Peter Hook has revealed that he has refused to release a lost Joy Division track because he will not "make any money" from it

argh DIDDUMS

"Ian used to say to me that every song that you start, you should finish, and it's something that has always stuck with me."

... his To Do List must be like War & Peace!

Admire the way he ticks them off promptly though - no dithering around for 30 years before getting round to finishing things off!

To paraphrase Capt. Blackadder... Please, Please, Please. STOP.

Simon Simpson wrote: "Ian used to say to me that every song that you start, you should finish, and it's something that has always stuck with me."

... his To Do List must be like War & Peace!

Admire the way he ticks them off promptly though - no dithering around for 30 years before getting round to finishing things off!

To paraphrase Capt. Blackadder... Please, Please, Please. STOP.

The real reasons probably revolve around either or both of these

1 - It's shit 2 - One or more members of the JD estate won't grant permission

No matter - he can make a little money back releasing 4 exclusively recorded tracks with a book we've all read for either £350 or £600 each, depending which edition you buy.

Times are hard, but we do what we can.....

Peter Hook has revealed that he has refused to release a lost Joy Division track because he will not "make any money" from it.

The Factory ethos is alive and well!

Let's have a look at what was ACTUALLY said shall we?

"The odd thing in that situation is that you can't sell it and once you've recorded it, it's gone and people will just download it for free. So for me to go in and record it... we could do it but the fact that we wouldn't make the money back on it stops me from doing it."

How that translates the way people on here are saying is beyond me to be honest.

Some of the people on here recently... :dead:

grim

i actually really like Pictures...

That's a shame cos I would buy it and I'm sure loads of others on here and elsewhere would too.

Just like I have had my coinage ready and waiting for Freebass material for way too long.

I would have actually paid for my FAC51 Tokyo Joe CD but perversely I was handed that for free on the opening night of the club.

Yes, people download music for nowt but they also pay for downloads/buy cd's of stuff they like/pay current ticket prices for gigs and buy the t-shirts.

That is just the way things are now but releasing music has always been risky hasnt it?

Thank f*** AHW took a chance with Factory and used his mum's inheritance to get Unknown Pleasures out.

Tock wrote: That's a shame cos I would buy it and I'm sure loads of others on here and elsewhere would too.

Just like I have had my coinage ready and waiting for Freebass material for way too long.

I would have actually paid for my FAC51 Tokyo Joe CD but perversely I was handed that for free on the opening night of the club.

Yes, people download music for nowt but they also pay for downloads/buy cd's of stuff they like/pay current ticket prices for gigs and buy the t-shirts.

That is just the way things are now but releasing music has always been risky hasnt it?

Thank f*** AHW took a chance with Factory and used his mum's inheritance to get Unknown Pleasures out.

Agreed.It's a shame but there really doesn't seem to be much thought there for the fans. I would have thought they both needed a fanbase now. I'm guessing they're not exactly short of a few bob now?? And where has that come from over the years??

Which releases do Mr. Hook believe have been hurt by downloading? I'd really like to hear which of the albums and singles he's been involved with have been hurt by downloads. The die-hards are pretty much all that remains of their fan base and as we know, we buy everything. So come on Hooky, show us how your paycheck has been hurt by illegal downloads. Be specific.

Now let's list the way the New Order and Joy Division fans have been fleeced by the record companies for decades and see who has the biggest grievance.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: Which releases do Mr. Hook believe have been hurt by downloading? I'd really like to hear which of the albums and singles he's been involved with have been hurt by downloads. The die-hards are pretty much all that remains of their fan base and as we know, we buy everything. So come on Hooky, show us how your paycheck has been hurt by illegal downloads. Be specific.

Now let's list the way the New Order and Joy Division fans have been fleeced by the record companies for decades and see who has the biggest grievance.

Jumping the gun there mate geez!

Its simple, those who would of considered buying it, will now (most likely) download it as they feel it could be a waste of money, they don't want to take the risk - so to speak

Me, well NO & JD come before rent and food.

The majority of the shitty knob-head kids who download shit, probably won't give a flying fuck on Freebass.

p.s The sales of Ad Infinitum - Telstar have been hit very hard since they were posted on a blog.

just played Telstar the other day....

This is getting comical.

So 30 years and not releasing a JD song 5 years and not releasing WFTSC tracks

How long now for the Freebass stuff?

EdelBrock wrote: So 30 years and not releasing a JD song 5 years and not releasing WFTSC tracks

How long now for the Freebass stuff?

Even Saville was never this late.

aaah, so the "song" was lifted from a jam session, release Brian then.

There is no end to this.

79 order wrote: aaah, so the "song" was lifted from a jam session, release Brian then.

There is no end to this.

surely that should be welease bwian then...

"The odd thing in that situation is that you can't sell it"

Why can't he sell a newly recorded version of that song?

"and once you've recorded it, it's gone and people will just download it for free. So for me to go in and record it... we could do it but the fact that we wouldn't make the money back on it stops me from doing it."

This could feasibly apply to anything that anyone records!

Added to the fact that he's selling 4 newly recorded tracks with a book we've all read for either £350 or £600 will only encourage downloading in the current financial climate. A more reasonable price will ensure more sales.

For one, we've all heard that song on another site, right? I certainly wouldn't buy it so he'd be wasting his time anyway.

One of the very cool things about JD/NO in the US growing up was their opaqueness - you hardly knew anything about them at all but for their music, which really struck me as very artistically pure, very cool.

These days I know that's not possible anymore, and I don't begrudge Hooky making money - I work in a creative field too and it's all about stealing from the artistic types nowadays - but there is also the fact the long time fans here have probably bought the bulk of the albums in at least two formats - LP, cassette and/or CD. It's not like albums were any cheaper on Factory (here in the States at least) than on the major labels either, so we all paid plenty. And we've dropped good money on ancillary and rare stuff too and concerts. At some point, people get tired of hearing about the monetary aspect, I am. Release some Freebass tracks (I'll buy them), play some shows, start sounding a little more enthusiastic about music and less about money. Maybe I just need to stop reading this site - but then I'd never learn about new music from our fab four.

Facsimile wrote:

79 order wrote: aaah, so the "song" was lifted from a jam session, release Brian then.

There is no end to this.

surely that should be welease bwian then...

fwee Wodewick

Shakin' Baker wrote: For one, we've all heard that song on another site, right? I certainly wouldn't buy it so he'd be wasting his time anyway.

The re-work sounds completely different to that rubbish recording that everyone has heard.

I'd buy several copies.

Jeffari-al-Texani wrote: I'd download if for free...coz I'm a tight bastard like that...

so he's right...

Kids today eh?

or as GENO said JEFF

The majority of the shitty knob-head kids who download shit, probably won't give a flying fuck on Freebass.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: Which releases do Mr. Hook believe have been hurt by downloading? I'd really like to hear which of the albums and singles he's been involved with have been hurt by downloads. The die-hards are pretty much all that remains of their fan base and as we know, we buy everything. So come on Hooky, show us how your paycheck has been hurt by illegal downloads. Be specific.

Now let's list the way the New Order and Joy Division fans have been fleeced by the record companies for decades and see who has the biggest grievance.

What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

Even Jack's bass sounded better live at The Hacienda than Hooky's on the original tape

"It's not The Hacienda for f*cks sake"

Peter Hook 2010

johnny james wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: Which releases do Mr. Hook believe have been hurt by downloading? I'd really like to hear which of the albums and singles he's been involved with have been hurt by downloads. The die-hards are pretty much all that remains of their fan base and as we know, we buy everything. So come on Hooky, show us how your paycheck has been hurt by illegal downloads. Be specific.

Now let's list the way the New Order and Joy Division fans have been fleeced by the record companies for decades and see who has the biggest grievance.

What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

You don't think the serious slide in quality accounted for a few of those lost sales? I'm pretty sure when you poll the fans, those last 3 albums end up on the bottom of the list. Call me crazy, but mediocre albums peddled by aging musicians don't typically sell as much as the albums released in their peak. That's why it's called a peak. New Order has a fan base. If Peter Hook can't figure out a way to sell unreleased Joy Division tracks to that fan base, he's got some serious issues to resolve. Do you think a cd of Freebase would sell as much as a CD of Joy Division rarities from Hooky's closet? If he can't figure out how to sell this stuff, he needs to stick to performing live.

johnny james wrote: "It's not The Hacienda for f*cks sake"

Peter Hook 2010

I prefer it to FAC251

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

On the other hand you have someone like myself who bought FOUR different copies of WFTSC (UK CD and 2xLP, US CD, Japan CD), as well as every associated single in both CD and vinyl formats. A quick tally says I spent $200 on that album, PLUS I flew to London to see them live, so there's a concert ticket, too. That's certainly more than $15 for a CD that the average fan would spend.

Do downloads hurt record sales? Absolutely. So how do you account for bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead who have pioneered new business models and thrived? How do you account for a new pop star like Lady GaGa the bulk of whose sales comes from downloads? What about a band like The Smiths who broke up 23 years ago but can still sell out a singles box? Using the excuse that downloads hurt sales so it's not worth even trying is a LAZY answer.

My little project has proven that there's a market. If the band would get off their asses and do a properly manufactured singles box with carefully mastered audio and original artwork it would sell out.

What Hooky really means to say is that he can't be bothered.

PS: singles market is dead? iTunes just did their TEN BILLIONTH download.

£50 Note wrote:

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

On the other hand you have someone like myself who bought FOUR different copies of WFTSC (UK CD and 2xLP, US CD, Japan CD), as well as every associated single in both CD and vinyl formats. A quick tally says I spent $200 on that album, PLUS I flew to London to see them live, so there's a concert ticket, too. That's certainly more than $15 for a CD that the average fan would spend.

Do downloads hurt record sales? Absolutely. So how do you account for bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead who have pioneered new business models and thrived? How do you account for a new pop star like Lady GaGa the bulk of whose sales comes from downloads? What about a band like The Smiths who broke up 23 years ago but can still sell out a singles box? Using the excuse that downloads hurt sales so it's not worth even trying is a LAZY answer.

My little project has proven that there's a market. If the band would get off their asses and do a properly manufactured singles box with carefully mastered audio and original artwork it would sell out.

What Hooky really means to say is that he can't be bothered.

Spot on. There is a new market. If there was ever a time to release JD stuff it would be now. I've seen all sorts of random JD stuff around in stores, many kids today know them... who knows if that new fanbase will stick around for long... might as well rape them while the chance is still there.

Sometimes I wish NO weren't my favorite band, as their laziness and whining really do get on my nerves.

I know I never post on this board, but I've been into this band for over 20 years - and during that time it's same old shit - this band has made some of those most dedicated, creative and cerebral music I've known, and yet they seem to have never gotten their shit together. Can you imagine what more they could have accomplished if it wasn't for Hooky's borderline personality, or Bernard's insecurities? For fuck's sake...

So Hooky won't release a track from almost thirty years ago? No shit? He won't even release shit he recorded in the past year. Is it a surprise? It's the same old behavior we endured for these last twenty years. And if and when he does, what will it sound like? Probably Bad Lieutenant with bass...

Dammit.

Andrew Rice wrote: I know I never post on this board, but I've been into this band for over 20 years - and during that time it's same old shit - this band has made some of those most dedicated, creative and cerebral music I've known, and yet they seem to have never gotten their shit together. Can you imagine what more they could have accomplished if it wasn't for Hooky's borderline personality, or Bernard's insecurities? For fuck's sake...

So Hooky won't release a track from almost thirty years ago? No shit? He won't even release shit he recorded in the past year. Is it a surprise? It's the same old behavior we endured for these last twenty years. And if and when he does, what will it sound like? Probably Bad Lieutenant with bass...

Dammit.

Or Monaco on its last limbs.

£50 Note wrote:

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

On the other hand you have someone like myself who bought FOUR different copies of WFTSC (UK CD and 2xLP, US CD, Japan CD), as well as every associated single in both CD and vinyl formats. A quick tally says I spent $200 on that album, PLUS I flew to London to see them live, so there's a concert ticket, too. That's certainly more than $15 for a CD that the average fan would spend.

Do downloads hurt record sales? Absolutely. So how do you account for bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead who have pioneered new business models and thrived? How do you account for a new pop star like Lady GaGa the bulk of whose sales comes from downloads? What about a band like The Smiths who broke up 23 years ago but can still sell out a singles box? Using the excuse that downloads hurt sales so it's not worth even trying is a LAZY answer.

My little project has proven that there's a market. If the band would get off their asses and do a properly manufactured singles box with carefully mastered audio and original artwork it would sell out.

What Hooky really means to say is that he can't be bothered.

You really said all I wanted to, and plus you gave us a quality product...which Singles clearly wasnt.

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote:

johnny james wrote:

Biznotic Love Trapezoid wrote: Which releases do Mr. Hook believe have been hurt by downloading? I'd really like to hear which of the albums and singles he's been involved with have been hurt by downloads. The die-hards are pretty much all that remains of their fan base and as we know, we buy everything. So come on Hooky, show us how your paycheck has been hurt by illegal downloads. Be specific.

Now let's list the way the New Order and Joy Division fans have been fleeced by the record companies for decades and see who has the biggest grievance.

What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

You don't think the serious slide in quality accounted for a few of those lost sales? I'm pretty sure when you poll the fans, those last 3 albums end up on the bottom of the list. Call me crazy, but mediocre albums peddled by aging musicians don't typically sell as much as the albums released in their peak. That's why it's called a peak. New Order has a fan base. If Peter Hook can't figure out a way to sell unreleased Joy Division tracks to that fan base, he's got some serious issues to resolve. Do you think a cd of Freebase would sell as much as a CD of Joy Division rarities from Hooky's closet? If he can't figure out how to sell this stuff, he needs to stick to performing live.

You say the hardcore fans will buy everything regardless, yet then go on about a slide in quality as the reason they're not. I think 'Republic', 'GetReady' and 'WFTSC' are pretty even in quality.

Hooky hasn't got the new music business model figured out yet, but neither has the whole industry. The downloading revolution has butchered sales of albums and the labels don't know what to do about it. They now sell far less albums than any equivalent released in the 70s-80s-90s and this affects many things, like whether to even release albums.

EdelBrock wrote:

£50 Note wrote:

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Also there is now no market for singles at all, and I believe JD/NO were quite the singles band.

On the other hand you have someone like myself who bought FOUR different copies of WFTSC (UK CD and 2xLP, US CD, Japan CD), as well as every associated single in both CD and vinyl formats. A quick tally says I spent $200 on that album, PLUS I flew to London to see them live, so there's a concert ticket, too. That's certainly more than $15 for a CD that the average fan would spend.

Do downloads hurt record sales? Absolutely. So how do you account for bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead who have pioneered new business models and thrived? How do you account for a new pop star like Lady GaGa the bulk of whose sales comes from downloads? What about a band like The Smiths who broke up 23 years ago but can still sell out a singles box? Using the excuse that downloads hurt sales so it's not worth even trying is a LAZY answer.

My little project has proven that there's a market. If the band would get off their asses and do a properly manufactured singles box with carefully mastered audio and original artwork it would sell out.

What Hooky really means to say is that he can't be bothered.

Spot on. There is a new market. If there was ever a time to release JD stuff it would be now. I've seen all sorts of random JD stuff around in stores, many kids today know them... who knows if that new fanbase will stick around for long... might as well rape them while the chance is still there.

Sometimes I wish NO weren't my favorite band, as their laziness and whining really do get on my nerves.

There is no market, at least not like there used to be. The money is in playing live and there'll be no JD shows any time soon.

The JD archive has been packaged and sold now, nothing really left except rehashes and the odd track like 'Pictures'.

What Hooky seems to have been asked about is releasing his new version of 'Pictures' (rather than the old rehearsal), and his answer is it's not worth the effort. He'll spend loads on recording it then get about £50 back from selling it on iTunes, in this wonderful new singles market where the distributor (Apple) keep all the money. That is what I mean when I say there's no market for singles, there's no money for the artist anymore, just for Apple.

Quote ""There is no market, at least not like there used to be. The money is in playing live and there'll be no JD shows any time soon.

The JD archive has been packaged and sold now, nothing really left except rehashes and the odd track like 'Pictures'.

What Hooky seems to have been asked about is releasing his new version of 'Pictures' (rather than the old rehearsal), and his answer is it's not worth the effort. He'll spend loads on recording it then get about £50 back from selling it on iTunes, in this wonderful new singles market where the distributor (Apple) keep all the money. That is what I mean when I say there's no market for singles, there's no money for the artist anymore, just for Apple"".

I disagree. The JD archive has not been packaged and sold now; there is more material that has never been released. Hooky has all kinds of rarities that he is sitting on; including gigs from 1977 and 1978, and more rehearsal material And what about those complete takes of "In A Lonely Place"? JD could release all kinds a rarities on a website, of their making, and not have to pay Apple a thing. The fan would log onto the website, pay their money and download the rarities. I think "50 Pound Note" is right, it seems the band doesn't want to be bothered with it. The sad thing is, there is market! The true fans would buy these rarities. But since the band is doing nothing, the rarities that do slip through the cracks are being uploaded onto blog.spots and shared for free; when they could of been sold for a profit..............

It's not as if the official releases are being shared on blog.spots. You don't come across "Unknown Pleasures", "Closer", "Preston" "Les Bains Douches","The complete BBC Recordings" and "Still" avilable for download; so if they made these rarities an official release and released them on a website, people would be forced to buy them. And of coruse, some people would buy them and share them with their friends, and it's better then giving them away for free, right????????????????

Really, why bother releasing anything then. For fun. For promotion. For honoring the past. For the heck of it. Whatever, it's his time.

Probably why he has not been in hurry to release stuff, feels like he is just giving it away. But then back when they self released their first EP over 30 years ago, they didn't think they would make money from it either.

TheVisitors wrote:

You don't come across "Unknown Pleasures", "Closer", "Preston" "Les Bains Douches","The complete BBC Recordings" and "Still" avilable for download

Are you sure?

what would ian say :evil:

I stand corrected. That's fucking sad, that even the box-set is avilable as a free download............

BillONdollar wrote: what would ian say :evil:

"For feck's sake, do shut up"

leave joy divisoin songs as they should be no need to be release now after many years. people buy them but not so many time to say goodbyes so long after.

Do you know looking at that "Ian" picture for all these years never realised that its peter hook in the background

pictures in my.............

Remember the two "new" Beatles songs that came out years ago, with the remaining members playing over a Lennon vocal track?

Yeah. Let it rest.

It really is a serious debate regarding the release of material from the JD vault that is of substandard quality. Now, I collect bootlegs and appreciate the obscure tracks and crappy live recordings, but a majority of fans don't. Another collection of officially released JD live/rehearsals type of CD, honestly is only going to harm their reputation and be seen as penny pinching, scraping the barrel.

The solution? A lot of bands do very well selling exclusive products direct from their website/fan club to the fans who are intersting in buying it. Sure, 10 mintues after the first person has it, it's up on file sharing blogs etc on the net. This is the way of the music World now, cannot be avoided. Selling a book for 600 quid is not the right way to make a dollar, when everyone has the book already!

i dont THINK anyone has actually mentioned which song ? what we all (the real j.d fans) is when is in a lonely place coming out in all its superior quality glory ? i know it exists cus ive got a 30 sec clip of it at reduced quality. if its for sale whats the price? try youtube joy division 'in a lonely place contains missing verse'.

casio smith wrote: i dont THINK anyone has actually mentioned which song ? what we all (the real j.d fans) is when is in a lonely place coming out in all its superior quality glory ? i know it exists cus ive got a 30 sec clip of it at reduced quality. if its for sale whats the price? try youtube joy division 'in a lonely place contains missing verse'.

casio smith wrote: i dont THINK anyone has actually mentioned which song ? what we all (the real j.d fans) is when is in a lonely place coming out in all its superior quality glory ? i know it exists cus ive got a 30 sec clip of it at reduced quality. if its for sale whats the price? try youtube joy division 'in a lonely place contains missing verse'.

Are you kidding mate? Did you read the article? It's a rare Joy Division song called Pictures In My Mind. By the way mate, we already know about the In A Lonely Place sample, it was posted here months ago. We KNOW a full version of In A Lonely Place exsits; now that I think of it, there is suppose to be 5 full versions. This is old news from late last year...

yes Darkman (now TheVisitors), mainly thanks to you

johnny james wrote: yes Darkman (now TheVisitors), mainly thanks to you

I wish I was Darkman, because I would have those Rehearsal takes. But I don't, but I did read all about those takes last year.

darkman is a twat in florida goes by the name of SETH eigenmann, (i know because under darkman ranted on this page about some deranged lunatic on facebook (me) releasing the clip on a joy division facebook page, not realising that the person he was replying to was me!!!!!!!!!! Hes been shooting his mouth off whenever anyone 'comes out'with the 30 second clip of IALP claiming hes got the real deal, BUT HE GOT HIS KNICKERS IN A TWIST DIDENT HE, SWEARING HE WAS A MATE OF HOOKYS,TELLING ME IT WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED LATER THIS YEAR, AND WHEN I EXPOSED THIS HES DISAPEARED FROM HERE AND FACEBOOK.)(OK HE MIGHT BE IN DISGUISE AS SOMEONE ELSE) I HAD SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT MY YOU TUBE VIDEO 'IALP WITH MISSING VERSE' WHO CLAIMED TO BE PETER HOOK! THE PROBLEM IS THE WORLD IS FULL OF BULLSHITTERS SO WELL HAVE TO KEEP GUESSING. incidentally pete, if your looking to someone to blame for the leak of the tape, look in the mirror.

casio smith wrote: darkman is a twat in florida goes by the name of SETH eigenmann, (i know because under darkman ranted on this page about some deranged lunatic on facebook (me) releasing the clip on a joy division facebook page, not realising that the person he was replying to was me!!!!!!!!!! Hes been shooting his mouth off whenever anyone 'comes out'with the 30 second clip of IALP claiming hes got the real deal, BUT HE GOT HIS KNICKERS IN A TWIST DIDENT HE, SWEARING HE WAS A MATE OF HOOKYS,TELLING ME IT WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED LATER THIS YEAR, AND WHEN I EXPOSED THIS HES DISAPEARED FROM HERE AND FACEBOOK.)(OK HE MIGHT BE IN DISGUISE AS SOMEONE ELSE) I HAD SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT MY YOU TUBE VIDEO 'IALP WITH MISSING VERSE' WHO CLAIMED TO BE PETER HOOK! THE PROBLEM IS THE WORLD IS FULL OF BULLSHITTERS SO WELL HAVE TO KEEP GUESSING. incidentally pete, if your looking to someone to blame for the leak of the tape, look in the mirror.

Flippin eck i only came in here to get warm!

Is there ANYTHING being released by anyone New Order related?

Tucker wrote: and an unhealthy obsession with a song about suicide by a guy who committed suicide

Quite...

Tucker wrote: Joy Division oven gloves.

Only £600.

Wow i could get a book for that!

RoCkeT MIck wrote:

Tucker wrote: Joy Division oven gloves.

Only £600.

Wow i could get a book for that!

Didn't a band write a song about them? ;) :p

casio smith wrote: darkman is a twat in florida goes by the name of SETH eigenmann, (i know because under darkman ranted on this page about some deranged lunatic on facebook (me) releasing the clip on a joy division facebook page, not realising that the person he was replying to was me!!!!!!!!!! Hes been shooting his mouth off whenever anyone 'comes out'with the 30 second clip of IALP claiming hes got the real deal, BUT HE GOT HIS KNICKERS IN A TWIST DIDENT HE, SWEARING HE WAS A MATE OF HOOKYS,TELLING ME IT WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED LATER THIS YEAR, AND WHEN I EXPOSED THIS HES DISAPEARED FROM HERE AND FACEBOOK.)(OK HE MIGHT BE IN DISGUISE AS SOMEONE ELSE) I HAD SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT MY YOU TUBE VIDEO 'IALP WITH MISSING VERSE' WHO CLAIMED TO BE PETER HOOK! THE PROBLEM IS THE WORLD IS FULL OF BULLSHITTERS SO WELL HAVE TO KEEP GUESSING. incidentally pete, if your looking to someone to blame for the leak of the tape, look in the mirror.

Geoffrey Smith Your a fucking freak, aren't you! You really have problems. For the last time, I never said that song was going to be released later this year, you said that you fucking freak. And I do know Peter Hook! Your obsession with IALP is getting out of control buddy; I know you have OCD and have a hard time letting things go, but this is really unhealthy for you my-man. Also, I have been sitting here the whole time, reading your crazy posts, and laughting my ass off. Again, your a fucking freak. P.S. Your custom mix of IALP is a BUTCH job. By the way, how is your letter to Factory Records coming?

Darkman n Casio, both FUCK OFF, YANK arse bandits, your not welcome over here. go & yerk off on jdcentral

Andrew Sayer wrote: Darkman n Casio, both FUCK OFF, YANK arse bandits, your not welcome over here. go & yerk off on jdcentral

Andrew fuck you and all the other fuck's on New Order Online who have talked shit about me, because I informed you that a fucking peice of music exsits. Are you fucking kidding me? This shoot the messenger shit is played out and fucking sad. School is out boys and girls; and anyone who gets mad at someone else for informing them that a peice of music exsits; is a fucking loser. To all of you out there, that are mad at me for telling them that those rehearsal takes exsits, eat dick bitch.............I'm sick of getting shit from you fucks from no reason.......

Darkman wrote:

Andrew Sayer wrote: Darkman n Casio, both FUCK OFF, YANK arse bandits, your not welcome over here. go & yerk off on jdcentral

Andrew fuck you and all the other fuck's on New Order Online who have talked shit about me, because I informed you that a fucking peice of music exsits. Are you fucking kidding me? This shoot the messenger shit is played out and fucking sad. School is out boys and girls; and anyone who gets mad at someone else for informing them that a peice of music exsits; is a fucking loser. To all of you out there, that are mad at me for telling them that those rehearsal takes exsits, eat dick bitch.............I'm sick of getting shit from you fucks from no reason.......

Eeek..if I were an american teenager at the same school as Darkman, I wouldn't bother going in tomorrow. This cunts about to go postal !!!

Or maybe he'll just spend the day crying and wanking instead.

Time to get this out again...

nuff said!

Darkman wrote: And I do know Peter Hook!

That's news to me.

Darkman wrote:

casio smith wrote: darkman is a twat in florida goes by the name of SETH eigenmann, (i know because under darkman ranted on this page about some deranged lunatic on facebook (me) releasing the clip on a joy division facebook page, not realising that the person he was replying to was me!!!!!!!!!! Hes been shooting his mouth off whenever anyone 'comes out'with the 30 second clip of IALP claiming hes got the real deal, BUT HE GOT HIS KNICKERS IN A TWIST DIDENT HE, SWEARING HE WAS A MATE OF HOOKYS,TELLING ME IT WAS GOING TO BE RELEASED LATER THIS YEAR, AND WHEN I EXPOSED THIS HES DISAPEARED FROM HERE AND FACEBOOK.)(OK HE MIGHT BE IN DISGUISE AS SOMEONE ELSE) I HAD SOMEONE COMPLAINING ABOUT MY YOU TUBE VIDEO 'IALP WITH MISSING VERSE' WHO CLAIMED TO BE PETER HOOK! THE PROBLEM IS THE WORLD IS FULL OF BULLSHITTERS SO WELL HAVE TO KEEP GUESSING. incidentally pete, if your looking to someone to blame for the leak of the tape, look in the mirror.

Geoffrey Smith Your a fucking freak, aren't you! You really have problems. For the last time, I never said that song was going to be released later this year, you said that you fucking freak. And I do know Peter Hook! Your obsession with IALP is getting out of control buddy; I know you have OCD and have a hard time letting things go, but this is really unhealthy for you my-man. Also, I have been sitting here the whole time, reading your crazy posts, and laughting my ass off. Again, your a fucking freak. P.S. Your custom mix of IALP is a BUTCH job. By the way, how is your letter to Factory Records coming?

"Hmm..juicy fruit.."

[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:

Darkman wrote: And I do know Peter Hook!

That's news to me.

Please check your private messages!

casio smith wrote: darkman is a twat in florida goes by the name of SETH eigenmann,

Do you mean the Park Pal on the Go?, apparently he heads up in public parks. Is that the same as cottaging?

Blimey.. i didn't look on 'ere for 24 hours, and I missed a knobhead attack.

Darkman wrote:

[orange]State of Love and Trust [/orange] wrote:

Darkman wrote: And I do know Peter Hook!

That's news to me.

Please check your private messages!

Hi Alex

Emotions seem to be riding high on this thread! I can't wait to find out what happens next

TheVisitors wrote: Emotions seem to be riding high on this thread! I can't wait to find out what happens next

it's all gone quiet.

i reckon the nurse banned them from the internet for a while.

Burt Burterson wrote:

TheVisitors wrote: Emotions seem to be riding high on this thread! I can't wait to find out what happens next

it's all gone quiet.

i reckon the nurse banned them from the internet for a while.

Do you think maybe Jack is Bipolar? Darkman does seem to have some info and a strange attitude, then nice Jack comes along! Just saying like!

But getting back to the original post, I don't mind that Hooky won't release a studio recording, Keep it live, there's no money to be made in selling recordings anymore, so just play live.

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Neither one of NO's last two albums had more than $5 worth of promotion in the U.S,. and both were held back from a U.S. release for months (ironically so their promotional efforts wouldn't be spread too thin at the release!). Most people I know just downloaded the damn things rather than wait.

Oblique Strategy wrote:

johnny james wrote: What releases have been hurt by downloads? Well the last two NO albums sold far less than Republic, and WFTSC sold less than GetReady. Once people can get hold of stuff for free they will. Sad but true in the case of music sales, have you not noticed all the record shops disappearing over the last decade?

Neither one of NO's last two albums had more than $5 worth of promotion in the U.S,. and both were held back from a U.S. release for months (ironically so their promotional efforts wouldn't be spread too thin at the release!). Most people I know just downloaded the damn things rather than wait.

According to Wikipedia, WFTSC was released in the UK and other countries (including Japan) in March; in the US it was in April. It was only a month wait---not 'months'.

I'm hoping the loyal fans who downloaded stuff (as a preview) because they couldn't wait 1 month for a CD eventually bought the album.