FINSBURY PARK FILMED!

To anyone that's interested! New order's finsbury gig was graded at work this week. I managed to get hold of a VHS and it looks (and sounds) great! You be pleased to know that it's the entire set! Over 1 and a half hours. Had fun spotting myself in the crowd!!

come on Wen, you know it won't be available in the US. we can go ahead and give up on NewOrder releasing the real goods in the States. no chance.

"Lord, it's me, Trevor. I know it's been a while and, well quite frankly you have every reason to be mad at me. I should've waited to pee AFTER the funeral and all.....but I'd had a lot to drink...nevermind, what I've come to ask you about is...could you persuade New Order to press for a region 1 release of their Finsbury gig? I would really consider going to sunday services if you did....while I got your attention, how about a New Order tour? Or 24 HPP playing somewhere nearby? Or..."

(Crashing thunder from outside)

"Okay, okay, one thing at a time. Erm, thanks...and some female companionship would be nice..."

(Even louder crash of thunder)

"Oh, I've wet myself again...."

I know this is supposed to be released later this year (not likely in the US), but is this just another NO concert video to get shelved in the vaults and never see the light of day?

You mean the Finsbury gig was filmed? Hey man, that's good news - thank god for the forum otherwise we might not have heard about this...

Irony is a wonderful thing, particularly when wasted on many it seems :)

Thank you Easy - tho NOT wasted on everyone obviously...Ra ta ta ta ta ta ta ta HEY!

My smart-ass comments were firmly tongue in cheek Chris and no offence was intended.

Tho' the entire gig was in fact graded (colour corrected & made to look more expensive than it really is!) this is no guarantee that the whole show will be used. Mixing live sound for a DVD or video release is a VERY expensive undertaking and that will determine which tracks make it to the final release - if there were any duffers that day then you can be fairly sure they'll be left out of the package...

That's 60mph blown out then !!!

Originally posted by ShugZV > Originally posted by Easy E> That's 60mph blown out then !!!

And WIFM :D

Faer Do's......

Originally posted by FourFortyFive Tho' the entire gig was in fact graded (colour corrected & made to look more expensive than it really is!) this is no guarantee that the whole show will be used. Mixing live sound for a DVD or video release is a VERY expensive undertaking and that will determine which tracks make it to the final release - if there were any duffers that day then you can be fairly sure they'll be left out of the package...

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! Bastards.......

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Easy E> That's 60mph blown out then !!!

Actually, that's 90% of the set gone then, surely?

If not all?

MIAOW!!!!!!!!

(Weren't being a naughty boy last night, were we Mr Jarvis....?????)

Disgraceful I say, disgraceful, all these grown men arranging fisticuffs at football.

That sounds good! Any chance of the vid going on general circulation soon?

i know that none of you give a fuck BUT if someone is lucky enough to get hold of this tape then stupid enough to start bragging about on this forum and to start making copies for all and sundry then you can be assured that the Warners people will do their utmost make neworderonlines life difficult.

I have personally been warned that I have one of only three copies of this and that if by some miracle copies should begin appearing among the new order community that I'll be the first on the list to receive a "visit"...

If you must trade this stuff then have the common sense & decency to do it discreetly and NOT on the open forums.

Sorry there if my naievety may have caused you alarm on that front. I'm new to this forum and I wasn't aware that some posters here actually have legitimate links with Warners.... I visited the official Warners' Get Ready forum recently and it was utterly useless - no updates since september last year. Again - please excuse me. It wasn't my intention to encourage distribution of unsolicited recorded material. I was just passing comment.

Not at all Dave - I have NO official links or otherwise with Warner but I do know that the bands management are showing more interest in bootlegging of late - especially with reference to unreleased material or "soon to be" released stuff that appears months before its' "due date".

It is entirely up to yourselves what you do with your collections of video or audio recordings but it has to be said that quite a number of people on this forum have forgotten that rightly or wrongly, the distribution of unauthorised recordings IS illegal and making clear reference to the trade in such material with email and direct contact addresses is foolhardy to say the very least.

Always protect yourselves when looking for or offering to supply such recordings.

Start with the Lancashire connection for one ! Every other thread mentions a trade someone is doing !

Actually Shug, I don't do any these days. Retired. Changed the above post anyway though.

It wasn't intended like that, it was merely a response to your "who should watch out" question.....

theres no way that any band or record label would pull the plug on a potential money spinner just because theres a couple of copies doing the rounds

There was never any suggestion that they would "pull the plug" on a future release - what I suggested was that the most obvious/front line offenders "advertising" their "trades" on a popular fan site will do THAT site no good at all - and themselves? well; fines for "dealing" kick off around the £5,000 mark and move up to £20,000 very quickly indeed. That's the specific reason Factory joined the BPI in fact - at the behest of one Bernard Sumner who was sick of seeing people profit from unauthorised recordings.

i agree with what you are saying in so much that people should be more careful.. but dont you think its our very nature as fans that we like to tell people what weve got, i know i do, especially if its something a bit special!!

But of course! I am a main offender for sure...

so when is the video/dvd out? please how good is it?

Originally posted by FourFortyFive I have personally been warned that I have one of only three copies of this and that if by some miracle copies should begin appearing among the new order community that I'll be the first on the list to receive a "visit"...

So Johan, all round to your gaff for a special 'preview' screening then ??

Yeah - no bother at all! How about saturday afternoon - say, 2:00pm?

Didn't Hooky state:

"If I wasn't in a band I would make money selling bootlegs"

Yes, I'm sure he did.

Personally, I don't think there's any harm (or legal contention) with recording original vinyl, cassettes etc. previously purchased onto CD by the owner for use elsewhere?

... If that's wrong I don't want to be right.

4:30 ... Instead of making a scapegoat from NO fans who have and will always make copies of booty legs - why not suggest to NO to release more gear? - I'm sure they will find the very fans who are not profiting from not trading their various libraries of material for any profit are the very people who are likely to buy old gigs and rare songs anyway. About 215 people I think all told. Must have cheated NO out of about sixpence over the years hey! (do you not have a bootleg in your collection?).

And anyway - lots of us hardcore fans must have spent thousands on them - surely playing NO 'Live at the Biscuit Barrel' which originally cost £3.00 (bargained down from £4.50) in 1985 from 'a' record fare or copying it for the faithful isn't something anyone should miss a good nights sleep over (unless a cheese pastie had been consumed which always repeats later).

101% of anyone that bootlegs Fish Fingery Park or any other NO live video or song they never did release will always buy the original if it ever surfaced. As James Bond states 'You Only Live just the Once'.

So there.

Originally posted by Huntsman Didn't Hooky state:"If I wasn't in a band I would make money selling bootlegs"Yes, I'm sure he did.Personally, I don't think there's any harm (or legal contention) with recording original vinyl, cassettes etc. previously purchased onto CD by the owner for use elsewhere?... If that's wrong I don't want to be right.4:30 ... Instead of making a scapegoat from NO fans who have and will always make copies of booty legs - why not suggest to NO to release more gear? - I'm sure they will find the very fans who are not profiting from not trading their various libraries of material for any profit are the very people who are likely to buy old gigs and rare songs anyway. About 215 people I think all told. Must have cheated NO out of about sixpence over the years hey! (do you not have a bootleg in your collection?).And anyway - lots of us hardcore fans must have spent thousands on them - surely playing NO 'Live at the Biscuit Barrel' which originally cost £3.00 (bargained down from £4.50) in 1985 from 'a' record fare or copying it for the faithful isn't something anyone should miss a good nights sleep over (unless a cheese pastie had been consumed which always repeats later).101% of anyone that bootlegs Fish Fingery Park or any other NO live video or song they never did release will always buy the original if it ever surfaced. As James Bond states 'You Only Live just the Once'.So there.

HUNTSMAN i have lived more than once JUST for the record though!:D I will certainly be buying all the new ORIGINAL vid/dvds and especially the 3 12inch CONFUSION just for the covers alone.Doubt i will ever play em though.PS any more PRINGLES coming my way.....(FRANK! :D) Rocket Mick.....Deceased

I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.

What I was trying to say was this;

DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

Is that any clearer?

And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

Originally posted by FourFortyFive I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.What I was trying to say was this;DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUSIs that any clearer?And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Half three ... what 'exactly' are you tring to say?

Just one note on this, most tricky of subject matters - I do hope New Order as people would not even bother to contemplate asking for compensation on their own fans who are deemed to be doing bootleg damage ... massed produced reproduction that is detrimental to their own income is one thing, copying a few booty's from '86 is another matter. Given the level of internet robbing a fan accessing their own archives is merely a glitch in the bigger system.

I'm a paranoid person so I make a point of steering well away of anything perceived to be dodgy ... but come on, you cannot possibly be saying to people on this website (who are 'all' NO fans - clear enough?) to be cautious when sending the odd tune through the post? ...

We aren't talking 'Attack of the Clones' available for download for 3 minutes prior to release now are we. Or even Madonna's new 'hit' album. What 'exactly' has changed from 1980 to 2002 as regards making copies of booty?

Incidentally, a prime quality DVD of Fishfinger Park - a relevant and possible credible, serious money earner is a definate no-no. 5 years down the line when they never released it though, and it's got to be worth £1 of anyone's money!

Let me know when the first fan gets shouted at 4.45 ... I'll be around for at least a hundred years (I eat a lot of carrots).

Did you get your EMU situation resolved?

Originally posted by Kevin Lingley > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.> > What I was trying to say was this;> > DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS> > Is that any clearer?> > And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Look Kevin, whatever you do, don't stray into an 18 rated movie if your 17 ... and be careful not to swear at church.

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Kevin Lingley> > > > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> > I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.> > > > What I was trying to say was this;> > > > DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS> > > > Is that any clearer?> > > > And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...>

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Look Kevin, whatever you do, don't stray into an 18 rated movie if your 17 ... and be careful not to swear at church.

I will try to be careful

All I was trying to do was give some considered advice based on a couple of incidents I was involved in over the last 10 years.

The guy who started this thread made NO suggestion that he was going to copy the tape for anyone but he mentioned that he worked for the company contracted to work on the footage & that he had taken a copy for himself. BAD idea. If there was any "leak" then I would think that the facilities house involved would be first port of call for the bands management.

The trade in bootlegs is inevitable and is generally accepted by most bands and indeed encouraged by others. No problem.

What they do NOT like is the trade in unreleased/soon to be released tracks as they often represent unfinished product.

There was NO threat or insistance on my part that you all "do as you're told" - it was simply advice that you may or may not choose to follow.

As for the Emulator, I had it playing bits of "Confusion" last night which was alot of fun - tho' hearing "Ra ta ta ta ta ta ta ta HEY!" in your front room of an evening is a little surreal to say the very least....

Tell you what I did notice Huntsy boy - the arpeggiation sequence of "Confusion" is identical to the slow arpeggiation on the "Salvation" instrumental when played at 25% speed!

In a vague attempt to try and steer this thread away from the rights and wrongs of copyright legalese, can I ask Johan (given comments further back) that if he has seen the full show, which tracks are indeed "duffers" and which, in his humble opinion, may not see the light of day on an official release??

If they oust "Ceremony" again I will fume........

It was never about the rights & wrongs in the first place Martin and I am in NO position to comment on the morality of bootlegging anyway - simply advice as I said previously...

I have only seen parts of this performance and have no idea what will or will not make it to completion.

As regards Timeclock's most recent copyright edition - like pulling the teeth out of a stubborn badger, your intention was finally written succinctly and with the correct phraseology. Now we can sleep in our beds in the knowledge we are safe from a herd of pillaging Vikings on house raids across central Europe - led by Hooky ... of course.

Now, on to more important matters.

Arpeggiator for Confusion - this 'series of notes in quick succession' has been a long standing holy grail for me - funny you should mention it. I have been a muso for a good while and have often attempted to work out the absolute correct notation path of this fabulous ditty for ages. Alongside Varnishing Paint's ridiculously good, yet ultimately impossible initial bassline sequence and BLTomato's fading synth-bells (aka Stevey Hague Re-mix) they are the NO notes still myths in my beautiful musical ear.

If you ever felt like e-mailing me the notes to the arp. Timezone (if you could somehow do this in digital form or with paper and a scribe) ... I would be over the moons.

As for them using it elsewhere I can understand this - it is excellent and they must also have thought this. Most good things come in twos: Laurel and Hardy, tea and coffee, breasts etc. Which 'bit' of Slaver ball are you referring to? - I must say it isn't in my current CD selection.

home taping is skill in music...

Interesting comments Headhunter - I struggled with the Confusion apreg notation for ages until 1987 on discovering an old "gramophone" which would play discs at 16 rpm. This allowed me to track the notes perfectly and simply scale/speed them up to match the original.

I used an RX 11 drum machine to sequence various parts of New Order tracks that the band I was in covered at the time. This is not as strange a method as it might sound as it allows for very strict sequencing and the ability to accent notes and, with individual outputs, set effects on specific hits. I went on to purchase an old Yamaha CMX music computer with 16 track Seq software which turned out to be the self same product used by Stephen Morris - a real pain in the arse to use I must tell you.

Now use Reason, Cubase, Pro-Tools etc., etc....All driven by a G3 laptop. The Emu-III looks amazing and with its' history will probably remain used for specific projects but it has been far surpassed in recent years.

Originally posted by FredElliott It wasn't intended like that, it was merely a response to your "who should watch out" question.....

SHABBA!:D Hope to see you down at the front SHUGZV but not during WORLD IN MOTION.:D:D:D:D

Yawn.......

HOME KILLING IS TAPE MUSIC

lighten up the fucking lot of ya!!

the guy only said he'd got a copy of the vid, he never said he was gonna do owt illegal or illicit with it

as for all this self righteous do as i say and not as i do bollocks, i bet there isnt a man/woman among us who wouldnt like to get their filthy mitts on a copy

i just cant believe some of the attitudes on this,a fan site!!

Just to let some of you know, there is a bootleg tax on all blank CD's, Dvd's, Casettes and blank videos. and the tax goes to all the company's to make up for all the lost money they lose on bootlegging. So they can cry all they want about mp3's or any bootlegging, the FACT is they are still making alot of money on blank video's and stuff.

So since I have to pay the tax, I will do it, then I will mock you all with it!

And just to let you know, I just got the Sweden 2002 concert on North American video, and yes it's a bootleg, and it's sooo sweeet!!!

Originally posted by HOOKY'S WALLET lighten up the fucking lot of ya!!the guy only said he'd got a copy of the vid, he never said he was gonna do owt illegal or illicit with itas for all this self righteous do as i say and not as i do bollocks, i bet there isnt a man/woman among us who wouldnt like to get their filthy mitts on a copyi just cant believe some of the attitudes on this,a fan site!!

AAhhh ... so refreshing.

Point as raised above: raid a NO fan home, then raid a NO home. Who'll have the most bootlegs? - Hooky or Barney?

Some of this actually makes me chuckle, because certain mixing desk tapes in circulation can only have come from a band source themselves !

Originally posted by FRED WEST :) Some of this actually makes me chuckle, because certain mixing desk tapes in circulation can only have come from a band source themselves !

Nice new signature EASY!:D I just hope the DVD lives up to ALL the hype though. Rocket Easy Fred Kelly DESPARATELY SEEKING FRED......:p

I fail to see why if the dvd is being officially released with presumed "extras" however minor, and in official packaging etc.. why you would want an x-generation copy in such a hurry! watch the dvd, let the fuss die down then im sure bootleg videos will see the light of day in due course.

Dont be so hasty tsssk!!

"And just to let you know, I just got the Sweden 2002 concert on North American video, and yes it's a bootleg, and it's sooo sweeet!!!"

That'll be the show that's been shown twice on TV will it? Doesn't really constitute a bootleg does it?

I get the distinct impression that some people on this forum just can't wait to have a go at anything I say - get over it folks.

It was suggested to me that a tactful word or two about the proliferation of boots might not be a bad thing but that didn't work because people were too busy trying be smart asses. Why I even bother at times god alone knows!

Anyway...HEADHUNTER!!!

I'll send you a few versions of the Confusion arp - at different speeds and with notation. It sounds great slowed down and once you hear it, I'm sure you'll agree...