FINSBURY PARK FILMED!

Start with the Lancashire connection for one ! Every other thread mentions a trade someone is doing !

Actually Shug, I don't do any these days. Retired. Changed the above post anyway though.

It wasn't intended like that, it was merely a response to your "who should watch out" question.....

theres no way that any band or record label would pull the plug on a potential money spinner just because theres a couple of copies doing the rounds

There was never any suggestion that they would "pull the plug" on a future release - what I suggested was that the most obvious/front line offenders "advertising" their "trades" on a popular fan site will do THAT site no good at all - and themselves? well; fines for "dealing" kick off around the £5,000 mark and move up to £20,000 very quickly indeed. That's the specific reason Factory joined the BPI in fact - at the behest of one Bernard Sumner who was sick of seeing people profit from unauthorised recordings.

i agree with what you are saying in so much that people should be more careful.. but dont you think its our very nature as fans that we like to tell people what weve got, i know i do, especially if its something a bit special!!

But of course! I am a main offender for sure...

so when is the video/dvd out? please how good is it?

Originally posted by FourFortyFive I have personally been warned that I have one of only three copies of this and that if by some miracle copies should begin appearing among the new order community that I'll be the first on the list to receive a "visit"...

So Johan, all round to your gaff for a special 'preview' screening then ??

Yeah - no bother at all! How about saturday afternoon - say, 2:00pm?

Didn't Hooky state:

"If I wasn't in a band I would make money selling bootlegs"

Yes, I'm sure he did.

Personally, I don't think there's any harm (or legal contention) with recording original vinyl, cassettes etc. previously purchased onto CD by the owner for use elsewhere?

... If that's wrong I don't want to be right.

4:30 ... Instead of making a scapegoat from NO fans who have and will always make copies of booty legs - why not suggest to NO to release more gear? - I'm sure they will find the very fans who are not profiting from not trading their various libraries of material for any profit are the very people who are likely to buy old gigs and rare songs anyway. About 215 people I think all told. Must have cheated NO out of about sixpence over the years hey! (do you not have a bootleg in your collection?).

And anyway - lots of us hardcore fans must have spent thousands on them - surely playing NO 'Live at the Biscuit Barrel' which originally cost £3.00 (bargained down from £4.50) in 1985 from 'a' record fare or copying it for the faithful isn't something anyone should miss a good nights sleep over (unless a cheese pastie had been consumed which always repeats later).

101% of anyone that bootlegs Fish Fingery Park or any other NO live video or song they never did release will always buy the original if it ever surfaced. As James Bond states 'You Only Live just the Once'.

So there.

Originally posted by Huntsman Didn't Hooky state:"If I wasn't in a band I would make money selling bootlegs"Yes, I'm sure he did.Personally, I don't think there's any harm (or legal contention) with recording original vinyl, cassettes etc. previously purchased onto CD by the owner for use elsewhere?... If that's wrong I don't want to be right.4:30 ... Instead of making a scapegoat from NO fans who have and will always make copies of booty legs - why not suggest to NO to release more gear? - I'm sure they will find the very fans who are not profiting from not trading their various libraries of material for any profit are the very people who are likely to buy old gigs and rare songs anyway. About 215 people I think all told. Must have cheated NO out of about sixpence over the years hey! (do you not have a bootleg in your collection?).And anyway - lots of us hardcore fans must have spent thousands on them - surely playing NO 'Live at the Biscuit Barrel' which originally cost £3.00 (bargained down from £4.50) in 1985 from 'a' record fare or copying it for the faithful isn't something anyone should miss a good nights sleep over (unless a cheese pastie had been consumed which always repeats later).101% of anyone that bootlegs Fish Fingery Park or any other NO live video or song they never did release will always buy the original if it ever surfaced. As James Bond states 'You Only Live just the Once'.So there.

HUNTSMAN i have lived more than once JUST for the record though!:D I will certainly be buying all the new ORIGINAL vid/dvds and especially the 3 12inch CONFUSION just for the covers alone.Doubt i will ever play em though.PS any more PRINGLES coming my way.....(FRANK! :D) Rocket Mick.....Deceased

I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.

What I was trying to say was this;

DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS

Is that any clearer?

And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

Originally posted by FourFortyFive I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.What I was trying to say was this;DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUSIs that any clearer?And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Half three ... what 'exactly' are you tring to say?

Just one note on this, most tricky of subject matters - I do hope New Order as people would not even bother to contemplate asking for compensation on their own fans who are deemed to be doing bootleg damage ... massed produced reproduction that is detrimental to their own income is one thing, copying a few booty's from '86 is another matter. Given the level of internet robbing a fan accessing their own archives is merely a glitch in the bigger system.

I'm a paranoid person so I make a point of steering well away of anything perceived to be dodgy ... but come on, you cannot possibly be saying to people on this website (who are 'all' NO fans - clear enough?) to be cautious when sending the odd tune through the post? ...

We aren't talking 'Attack of the Clones' available for download for 3 minutes prior to release now are we. Or even Madonna's new 'hit' album. What 'exactly' has changed from 1980 to 2002 as regards making copies of booty?

Incidentally, a prime quality DVD of Fishfinger Park - a relevant and possible credible, serious money earner is a definate no-no. 5 years down the line when they never released it though, and it's got to be worth £1 of anyone's money!

Let me know when the first fan gets shouted at 4.45 ... I'll be around for at least a hundred years (I eat a lot of carrots).

Did you get your EMU situation resolved?

Originally posted by Kevin Lingley > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.> > What I was trying to say was this;> > DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS> > Is that any clearer?> > And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Look Kevin, whatever you do, don't stray into an 18 rated movie if your 17 ... and be careful not to swear at church.

Originally posted by Huntsman > Originally posted by Kevin Lingley> > > > Originally posted by FourFortyFive> > I obviously didn't make myself clear - believe it or not, I am New Order fan too and I have stuff that remains unreleased and out of circulation and despite many efforts by several of you, these recordings will remain so.> > > > What I was trying to say was this;> > > > DON"T MAKE IT SO FUCKING OBVIOUS> > > > Is that any clearer?> > > > And to the guy who works with the facilities house who graded the video - I truly hope you used a false name in your profile...>

If its going to cause a problem I'm not going to get involved in sending any stuff for public availability through any site.

thanks for the warning.

shame though

Look Kevin, whatever you do, don't stray into an 18 rated movie if your 17 ... and be careful not to swear at church.

I will try to be careful

All I was trying to do was give some considered advice based on a couple of incidents I was involved in over the last 10 years.

The guy who started this thread made NO suggestion that he was going to copy the tape for anyone but he mentioned that he worked for the company contracted to work on the footage & that he had taken a copy for himself. BAD idea. If there was any "leak" then I would think that the facilities house involved would be first port of call for the bands management.

The trade in bootlegs is inevitable and is generally accepted by most bands and indeed encouraged by others. No problem.

What they do NOT like is the trade in unreleased/soon to be released tracks as they often represent unfinished product.

There was NO threat or insistance on my part that you all "do as you're told" - it was simply advice that you may or may not choose to follow.

As for the Emulator, I had it playing bits of "Confusion" last night which was alot of fun - tho' hearing "Ra ta ta ta ta ta ta ta HEY!" in your front room of an evening is a little surreal to say the very least....

Tell you what I did notice Huntsy boy - the arpeggiation sequence of "Confusion" is identical to the slow arpeggiation on the "Salvation" instrumental when played at 25% speed!

In a vague attempt to try and steer this thread away from the rights and wrongs of copyright legalese, can I ask Johan (given comments further back) that if he has seen the full show, which tracks are indeed "duffers" and which, in his humble opinion, may not see the light of day on an official release??

If they oust "Ceremony" again I will fume........

It was never about the rights & wrongs in the first place Martin and I am in NO position to comment on the morality of bootlegging anyway - simply advice as I said previously...

I have only seen parts of this performance and have no idea what will or will not make it to completion.

As regards Timeclock's most recent copyright edition - like pulling the teeth out of a stubborn badger, your intention was finally written succinctly and with the correct phraseology. Now we can sleep in our beds in the knowledge we are safe from a herd of pillaging Vikings on house raids across central Europe - led by Hooky ... of course.

Now, on to more important matters.

Arpeggiator for Confusion - this 'series of notes in quick succession' has been a long standing holy grail for me - funny you should mention it. I have been a muso for a good while and have often attempted to work out the absolute correct notation path of this fabulous ditty for ages. Alongside Varnishing Paint's ridiculously good, yet ultimately impossible initial bassline sequence and BLTomato's fading synth-bells (aka Stevey Hague Re-mix) they are the NO notes still myths in my beautiful musical ear.

If you ever felt like e-mailing me the notes to the arp. Timezone (if you could somehow do this in digital form or with paper and a scribe) ... I would be over the moons.

As for them using it elsewhere I can understand this - it is excellent and they must also have thought this. Most good things come in twos: Laurel and Hardy, tea and coffee, breasts etc. Which 'bit' of Slaver ball are you referring to? - I must say it isn't in my current CD selection.

home taping is skill in music...

Interesting comments Headhunter - I struggled with the Confusion apreg notation for ages until 1987 on discovering an old "gramophone" which would play discs at 16 rpm. This allowed me to track the notes perfectly and simply scale/speed them up to match the original.

I used an RX 11 drum machine to sequence various parts of New Order tracks that the band I was in covered at the time. This is not as strange a method as it might sound as it allows for very strict sequencing and the ability to accent notes and, with individual outputs, set effects on specific hits. I went on to purchase an old Yamaha CMX music computer with 16 track Seq software which turned out to be the self same product used by Stephen Morris - a real pain in the arse to use I must tell you.

Now use Reason, Cubase, Pro-Tools etc., etc....All driven by a G3 laptop. The Emu-III looks amazing and with its' history will probably remain used for specific projects but it has been far surpassed in recent years.

Originally posted by FredElliott It wasn't intended like that, it was merely a response to your "who should watch out" question.....

SHABBA!:D Hope to see you down at the front SHUGZV but not during WORLD IN MOTION.:D:D:D:D