from todays Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/14/new-order-split-peter-hook?CMP=twt_gu
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Joyless divisions: the end of New Order
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This is an archived legacy thread. Replies are closed, but the discussion is preserved.
Well, seeing as I don't get a chance to read this particular paper....hmmm...good story. Nothing new, but a good story.
"The sound was in our heads," Morris says, "but the machines were barely capable of doing it. The future was happening, but often it sounded a bit shit."
I think this will finally put an end to the daft rumours of them getting back together......as much as we'd all love one more tour it isnae gonna happen.
That quote from Stephen is a classic 
Jesus, this is proper boring now, isn't it?
Am I the only one thinking "they doth protest too much" though. We get it. You broke up. So what?
Headline slots at the V or somesuch Festival next year then? Kerching!
I always thought the Grauniad had a better class of reader. Some of those reader comments are plain stoopid. Is that where all the News of the Screws readers have migrated?
OK, so Peter should probably have informed/consulted the rest of the band about buying rights to the Hacienda name as a courtesy. But Bernard really can't complain about Peter playing JD songs when BL have played NO songs... bit hypocritical.
So neither of them have been perfect, but really hasn't been worth the spectacular fallout.
Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
father jack wrote:
Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
NOOL should have a competition on that one - give out some prizes.
That'll be a test of how truly sad some of us are!
father jack wrote: Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
Barney and Hooky shared a hot meat sandwich.
With Julio as the filling. 
They knew then they'd reached their lowest ebb.
The comment about the "thing" that happened in Brazil which Hooky wouldn't talk about is interesting.
Noticed on another post someone (Jack?) saying that what Craig Gill told me in January about them splitting up over royalty share was "total rubbish" - I'd be interested to know if he *knows* it to be rubbish or suspects it to be.
Because part of me wonders is that the conversation that happened in Brazil.
Were they discussing starting to write new material and use some of the leftover WFTSC tracks, and did Bernard hit Hooky over royalty share before it got off the ground? Who knows. But whatever happened in Brazil, both parties talk about lots of other problems they have, and give details, but *neither* party wants to discuss to the Brazil thing, which says to me it's about money because money is exactly the kind of thing I imagine neither party would *want* to say they fell out over.
Craig seemed pretty bloody certain about it - it wasn't a kind of "Well here's what I think".
That's not to say, of course, that he was being honest. Maybe he has a personal grudge or bias somewhere.
On a side note, I'm in the Hooky camp on this split. Why the fuck can't he form a Joy Division tribute band? I know a couple of lads locally who have done it so why can't Hooky? Bernard's comment about Hooky "taking our legacy" or whatever is nonsense. Hooky is no less a member of Joy Division than Bernard and the fact that Bernard doesn't like an idea and Hooky does, does not make the idea wrong or a bad one.
father jack wrote: OK, so Peter should probably have informed/consulted the rest of the band about buying rights to the Hacienda name as a courtesy. But Bernard really can't complain about Peter playing JD songs when BL have played NO songs... bit hypocritical.
So neither of them have been perfect, but really hasn't been worth the spectacular fallout.
Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
I don't think Bernard is frustrated that Hooky is playing JD songs in itself; after all, NO did some JD songs live later years in their career and so does BL. But the difference is that BL play a setlist with new BL songs and older NO/JD songs mixed. And with Steve and Phil (he was part of NO at WFTSC you know). It's not like you have Bernard touring with musicians other than Steve, Phil and Hooky playing NO albums live. This is not criticism but there is a difference in what they do.
To me it seems the grudge Bernard has against Peter Hook stems from his aggrievance at Hooky buying the Hacienda name, and perhaps it all kind of escalated in a tit for tat way from there? I dunno, just my speculation. Whatever, it's just sad to see it all come down to this.
I've heard the rumour that in Brazil some boxing was included between both parties. just a rumour ;)
http://www.nme.com/news/new-order/58054
Funnily, nme's sloppy coverage of the split, makes it appear that they fell out over Hooky forming freebass. No mention of the hac or the JD tours
poorshakes wrote: http://www.nme.com/news/new-order/58054
Funnily, nme's sloppy coverage of the split, makes it appear that they fell out over Hooky forming freebass. No mention of the hac or the JD tours
The NME????!!!!
There is bally all difference between the NME these days or The Sun.
One thinks it's a music paper, whilst the other, a newspaper.
They are both vile pieces of work, run and edited by complete wankers.
poorshakes wrote: http://www.nme.com/news/new-order/58054
Funnily, nme's sloppy coverage of the split, makes it appear that they fell out over Hooky forming freebass. No mention of the hac or the JD tours
The reader comments are interesting at the bottom of the article. It is interesting to see how a bystander sees it all (as opposed to us who are all caught up in it!) and it seems that public opinion aint with Hooky............
jake atkinson wrote:
poorshakes wrote: http://www.nme.com/news/new-order/58054
Funnily, nme's sloppy coverage of the split, makes it appear that they fell out over Hooky forming freebass. No mention of the hac or the JD tours
The reader comments are interesting at the bottom of the article. It is interesting to see how a bystander sees it all (as opposed to us who are all caught up in it!) and it seems that public opinion aint with Hooky............
To be honest the comments of the scrawny teenagers who read the NME are hardly a reflection of public opinion.I'm pretty sure that the "public" apart from the people who log on here are hardly even aware that they have broken up or that they ever existed. The main purpose of this article taking a Hooky quote out of context seems to be to fill a little space and to flog t-shirts...to skinny teens.
"We were important to people,"
"I know that our all bickering physically hurts the fans and destroys what they loved."
It was always special It was like water down the drain I'm intoxicated Every time I hear your name I try to remember But nothing is the same It was always special it was like water down the drain
jake atkinson wrote:
The reader comments are interesting at the bottom of the article. It is interesting to see how a bystander sees it all (as opposed to us who are all caught up in it!) and it seems that public opinion aint with Hooky............
Reader comments give a brand new meaning to the word patethic, don't know which are worse, the spiteful ones or the ones from Wonderland begging them to get back together nevertheless because someone would like to hear BM live. Gone, over, they were great, let's remember them how they were. Although I'd still like to know what the hell had happened in Brasil :\ohwell: .
With the kind of Lowest Common DenomIndie-nator crap that the NME usually peddle, it's a wonder any of its readers give three flying shitting monkeys about bands like New Order anymore.
BrianMcGee wrote:
Were they discussing starting to write new material and use some of the leftover WFTSC tracks, and did Bernard hit Hooky over royalty share before it got off the ground? Who knows. But whatever happened in Brazil, both parties talk about lots of other problems they have, and give details, but *neither* party wants to discuss to the Brazil thing, which says to me it's about money because money is exactly the kind of thing I imagine neither party would *want* to say they fell out over.
But arguement over royalties wouldn't be a "private" thing as it was quoted, it would still very much be business?
Rorschach wrote: "We were important to people,"
"I know that our all bickering physically hurts the fans and destroys what they loved."
It was always special It was like water down the drain I'm intoxicated Every time I hear your name I try to remember But nothing is the same It was always special it was like water down the drain
They don't need to get back together. I enjoyed BL live and The Light look good on YouTube ...
El Jarvo wrote:
father jack wrote: Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
Barney and Hooky shared a hot meat sandwich. With Julio as the filling.
Maybe they're disgusted with themselves because they made a home-movie together entitled
Two Mancs And One Cup
El Jarvo wrote:
father jack wrote: Mind you, god knows what the mystery event on the Brazil tour was
Barney and Hooky shared a hot meat sandwich.
With Julio as the filling.
They knew then they'd reached their lowest ebb.
And they had a stomachache for that! 
What a gross behaviour!
Does the reason matter anymore? I understood it was Barney saying he wanted to do a solo LP and Hooky thinking that it was unfair to just pick up and drop NO whenever it suited BS. But who knows? We all have our opinions. Mine is probably clear from elsewhere. I wish them all the best.
Though, to be honest, despite my reservations - The Light's Unknown Pleasures live in Australia CD is cracking. That band could show a shedload of potential and make a grand record. Though there is little money in 'new' material these days, writing and recording some new stuff at home could be very cheap.
BrianMcGee wrote: Noticed on another post someone (Jack?) saying that what Craig Gill told me in January about them splitting up over royalty share was "total rubbish" - I'd be interested to know if he *knows* it to be rubbish or suspects it to be.
I know it to be rubbish and I suspect that I am better informed on it than this other guy.
the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
In the final gig in brazil did hooky or Bernard kind of announce at the end if the last song that was the end of the band.... Might have annoyed others of the band ?
Al1973 wrote: In the final gig in brazil did hooky or Bernard kind of announce at the end if the last song that was the end of the band.... Might have annoyed others of the band ?
no
I'd just like to say....Thanks......New Order were fucking ace and no matter what crap they they say to each other now we'll still have EGG....Ceremony....BLT...Round & Round....WIM (just for the jocks ) etc...etc
Old Lead Foot wrote: the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
Awesome post! :) I am hoping to come to the NYC show if I have the money (Money is tight and living here in NYC is pricey!).
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Old Lead Foot wrote: the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
Awesome post! :) I am hoping to come to the NYC show if I have the money (Money is tight and living here in NYC is pricey!).
No youre not getting on the guest list you chancing cunt!
Gazman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Old Lead Foot wrote: the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
Awesome post! :) I am hoping to come to the NYC show if I have the money (Money is tight and living here in NYC is pricey!).
No youre not getting on the guest list you chancing cunt!
?????
I wasn't trying to.
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Gazman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Old Lead Foot wrote: the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
Awesome post! :) I am hoping to come to the NYC show if I have the money (Money is tight and living here in NYC is pricey!).
No youre not getting on the guest list you dancing cunt!
?????
I wasn't trying to.
Why not? Put Zachery on the guest list
He was kinda hoping to be the opening act
Old Lead Foot wrote: as for what happened in Brazil.... we had a couple of great gigs thanks
That's right, Paul!
We had the chance to talk after the gig in Rio and I told you how amazing the gigs and the chemistry with the audience were. I was lucky enough to have been in all them.
0_o wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Gazman wrote:
Zachery Starkey wrote:
Old Lead Foot wrote: the article seems to let everyone get some things out in the open, and everyone can see for themselves it's very sad, but that's the way it is. private matters between the members will remain so, and I wish BL the best of luck in whatever they choose to do, wether it be new stuff or old. But we in The Light are very proud to be doing what we do, we are playing some great songs written by a great band to audiences who want to come and hear them, they can also go and see other peoples presentations of the same stuff. we have been very fortunate over the last year to play to tens of thousands of people, of all ages and backgrounds, who never had the chance to see Joy Division, and never will, but we are just trying to give the crowds what they want to hear, if we do that, then anyone elses opinion of what we do is irrelavent. Old Leadfoot.
Awesome post! :) I am hoping to come to the NYC show if I have the money (Money is tight and living here in NYC is pricey!).
No youre not getting on the guest list you dancing cunt!
?????
I wasn't trying to.
Why not? Put Zachery on the guest list
He was kinda hoping to be the opening act
Haha that would be a real honor. Given that New Order/Joy Division is one of the main reasons I started to make music of my own, opening for Hooky would be a special thing. I would do it for free!
Al1973 wrote: In the final gig in brazil did hooky or Bernard kind of announce at the end if the last song that was the end of the band.... Might have annoyed others of the band ?
Nope, but Hooky's speakers did have a different message on them at each gig over the half-dozen dates they did over there, which all formed a sentence.
For the life of me, I can't remember what they all said (though there would be a thread on here somewhere from back in 2006).
I think the last gig in Argentina just had THE END daubed on his speakers, or summat like that.
El Jarvo wrote:
Al1973 wrote: In the final gig in brazil did hooky or Bernard kind of announce at the end if the last song that was the end of the band.... Might have annoyed others of the band ?
Nope, but Hooky's speakers did have a different message on them at each gig over the half-dozen dates they did over there, which all formed a sentence.
For the life of me, I can't remember what they all said (though there would be a thread on here somewhere from back in 2006).
I think the last gig in Argentina just had THE END daubed on his speakers, or summat like that.
The full sentence on the speakers of the South America tour was "Mr. Horse, once upon a time two boys started a group. It fell apart. The end."
The full sentence on the speakers of the South America tour was "Mr. Horse, once upon a time two boys started a group. It fell apart. The end."
I cant help thinking that this in itself may have been what "happened" on the Brazil tour. If the bloke you had known since school and formed a band with had written that during your gigs whilst standing next to you, you might not be overly pleased. Sounds like Hooky wanted out right there.
Incidentally, I presume Mr Horse is a reference to the Ren & Stimpy character who tended to sum things up with: "Hmmm, No Sir I dont like it".
Debaser wrote:
The full sentence on the speakers of the South America tour was "Mr. Horse, once upon a time two boys started a group. It fell apart. The end."
I cant help thinking that this in itself may have been what "happened" on the Brazil tour. If the bloke you had known since school and formed a band with had written that during your gigs whilst standing next to you, you might not be overly pleased. Sounds like Hooky wanted out right there.
Incidentally, I presume Mr Horse is a reference to the Ren & Stimpy character who tended to sum things up with: "Hmmm, No Sir I dont like it".
Nah!
The horse he was referring to was Bernard indeed. 
http://www.neworderonline.com/Photos/PictureViewer.aspx?PictureID=10814
Pictures of the 'started a group' speakers...from this page. http://www.neworderonline.com/live/Concert.aspx?ConcertID=715
This thread also mentions Hooky's speakers http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=34617
They reveal where it went wrong, but not why.
I don't see why they can't talk about the why; if they are going to talk about it, then...um... talk about it!
I seem to remember Hooky saying that the only reason the South American shows happened was money and the fact that the band had already committed to the shows with tickets on sale. Otherwise the last song would've been "True Faith" at Wolves.
Big Mouth Julio wrote: So the problem began before the South America tour indeed...
I think the problems began in the mid 80's
mark reed wrote: I seem to remember Hooky saying that the only reason the South American shows happened was money and the fact that the band had already committed to the shows with tickets on sale. Otherwise the last song would've been "True Faith" at Wolves.
i also seem to remember it was hooky wanting to do the tours for the money,and not the rest of them
there's a surprise....
We all know Barney and Hooky fell out because they could not decide which one of them was then sexiest dancer.... well they were both wrong, coz it's Stephen.
Aren't I right Jack?
Do I get a prize?
father jack wrote: We all know Barney and Hooky fell out because they could not decide which one of them was then sexiest dancer.... well they were both wrong, coz it's Stephen.
Aren't I right Jack?
Do I get a prize?
Barney was angry with Hooky cause he couldn't play guitar on his knees. He's been very heavy these days
and the noise that surrounds me, grows so loud in my head...
