Ceremony to Superheated - revisiting and reviewing every core song

Hi everyone

Totally reinvigorated by Music Complete, and feeling the need to move on a bit from working the pure discography angle for so many years (since 1992!), I've started a new project/site which will chronicle a journey to revisit and review in detail each and every core New Order track from Ceremony to Superheated (and hopefully beyond).

[:eek]

This may take some time, but I've made a start. Follow the ongoing work over at:

http://newordertracks.wordpress.com

RSS link - http://newordertracks.wordpress.com/feed/

I'll post updates here as the reviews drop - probably a couple each week. Hope you enjoy... linkage, feedback and comments welcome - particularly on the site itself.

Cheers Dennis Remmer

P.S planned order will be: Ceremony, In A Lonely Place, Dreams Never End, Truth, Senses, Chosen Time, ICB, The Him, Doubts Even Here, Denial, Everything’s Gone Green, Temptation, Procession, Mesh, Hurt, Cries and Whispers, Turn The Heater On, Too Late, Ode To Joy, Rocking Carol, Age Of Consent, We All Stand, The Village, 5-8-6, Your Silent Face, Ultraviolence, Ecstasy, Leave Me Alone, Blue Monday, Confusion, Thieves Like Us, Love Vigilantes, The Perfect Kiss, This Time Of Night, Sunrise, Elegia, Sooner Than You Think, Subculture, Face Up, Shellshock, Lonesome Tonight, Murder, Paradise, Weirdo, As It Is When It Was, Broken Promise, Way Of Life, Bizarre Love Triangle, All Day Long, Angel Dust, Every Little Counts, State Of The Nation, True Faith, 1963, Let’s Go, Salvation Theme, Sputnik, Skullcrusher, Touched By The Hand Of God, Fine Time, All The Way, Love Less, Round & Round, Guilty Partner, Run, Mr Disco, Vanishing Point, Dream Attack, Happy One, Don’t Do It, Best & Marsh, MTO, World In Motion, Regret, World, Ruined In A Day, Spooky, Everyone Everywhere, Young Offender, Liar, Chemical, Times Change, Special, Avalanche, Vicious Circle, Brutal, Crystal, 60 Miles An Hour, Turn My Way, Vicious Streak, Primitive Notion, Slow Jam, Rock The Shack, Someone Like You, Close Range, Run Wild, Behind Closed Doors, Sabotage, Player In The League, Here To Stay, Such A Good Thing, Soundtrack, Who’s Joe?, Hey Now What You Doing, Waiting For The Sirens’ Call, Krafty, I Told You So, Morning Night & Day, Dracula’s Castle, Jetstream, Guilt Is A Useless Emotion, Turn, Working Overtime, Vietnam, I’ll Stay with You, Sugarcane, Recoil, Californian Grass, Hellbent, Shake It Up, I’ve Got a Feeling, Exit, Hypnosis, Get Out, Restless, Singularity, Plastic, Tutti Frutti, People on the High Line, Stray Dog, Academic, Nothing but a Fool, Unlearn This Hatred, The Game, Superheated

That's great, mate. I will write a note on your project on my blog (in portuguese) about New Order, Joy Division, side projects etc. Then your site will be known among an audience of readers in portuguese that also reads in english.

Wow, that's some undertaking, doing a write up of each of all those songs.Have to take me hat off to yer, sir.I guess if you're talented at writing about music it won't be too difficult though.I look forward to following this ( have already started with your write ups of Ceremony, IALP and Dreams Never End- great writing).

Fantastic work as usual, Mr. Remmer ---- I've followed your work for many years and am now following your wordpress site.

Looking forward to your takes on the tracks!

Looks good this. Read Ceremony and IALP.

Surprised that ceremony has been played more than temptation live. Never been to a new order gig without temptation but have been to ones without ceremony, although it took me to the end of he 80,s to catch em live and be aware of their set lists.

Good writing, look forward to the rest.

Awesome -thought I had heard everything, found several in this list I had not. Your reviews and those to come are appreciated more than just about anything

Thanks for the great response! I'm just really keen to put aside all the band politics and get back to the music... i.e REALLY get back to the music - listen to it, think about it. Sense the evolution, influence, and impact of this band all over again. Some of it astounding, some of it a bit crap. All of it worthy of attention.

Tidy work, Dennis. Look forward to comparing field notes as it progresses.

It's great that you're having some sort of renaissance with the band.

Recently I had cause to blow the dust off the archives of the old Ceremony Mailing List. Among others, I noticed you were banging out song reviews there well over 20 years ago now.

depthcharge wrote: Recently I had cause to blow the dust off the archives of the old Ceremony Mailing List. Among others, I noticed you were banging out song reviews there well over 20 years ago now.

Well over [:eek]

You know what seems to be missing in the world of online resources for NO... a reliable sessionography. Its just occurred to me that Procession came out before Movement and I might have to alter the sequencing of the reviews.

Does anyone know for sure if the EGG 7" version (b-side of Procession) is just an edit of the 12" FBN/FACUS-8 version? One source of knowledge tells me that there was a recording session at Strawberry in March-81 for Procession and EGG, and that the sessions for Movement in April/May-81 also included EGG, Cries & Whispers and Mesh. Which EGG is which?

Millions need to know.

An afterthought - being a huge fan of the early songwriters(foster, mercer, porter, coward, Wodehouse, Rogers/hart/hammerstein, ledbetter, and the more modern Simon, Dylan, McCartney,Lennon , Davies, and on and on and on, it seems appropriate that neworder more than all the others is getting your expert attention . Prayers do get answered. Thanks

This is awesome. I used to have a list of everything up to date, including off-shoots and one-offs. Then I got a girlfriend.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Then I got a girlfriend.

Happens.

I met my wife at college. She liked that my wall was covered in Technique posters. I liked that she liked.

Not my room not my room...

5 years later we started our own record label.

Ceremony, In A Lonely Place, Dreams Never End reviews now up.

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Then I got a girlfriend.

Happens.

I met my wife at college. She liked that my wall was covered in Technique posters. I liked that she liked.

Not my room not my room...

5 years later we started our own record label.

I met my wife in Spain. I sad, What're you doing here? (Alexei Sayle)

Dennis Remmer wrote:

I met my wife at college. She liked that my wall was covered in Technique posters. I liked that she liked.

I met my partner at college. I liked that she had a New Order CD on her shelf.

It was Republic.

But we're still together.

Fotzepolitic, I finally got superheated extended, and you were right. I am still an old crazy fart but no longer "angry as hell", rather superhappy. Many thanks , cheers😎

Truth and Senses now up...

Chosen Time and ICB now up. Also included a running summary ratings page in the menu.

Enjoying the feedback here and on the site - keep it coming... 👍

JG wrote: Great work Dennis, good to have you back.

Cheers mate. When's your next trip downunder?

The Him and Doubts Even Here now up.

Denial and Procession now up.

Yes, movement is better with your substitutions. And many of my tweaked playlists added those songs that were more interesting , but to return for another cd burn i still love denial best of the original 8 songs. btw -You are doing an incredible service for new order and new order fans .new order now has what the Beatles have had for decades- a song by song evaluation, and imo new order has way more wonderful songs

One of the good things about the internet is that it's easy to find like-minded enthusiasts. How many times have each of us tried to share our thoughts on New Order with friends and family who clearly don't possess the same level of interest? This forum, which many (including myself) have come to take for granted, gives Dennis a platform to share his passion with those who truly appreciate it.

He certainly has put time and effort in, with quite a ways to go. I'm definitely curious to read where he'll go from here, considering the likes of ICB and The Him rate 4 stars.

Really liked the idea of a parallel universe version of Movement that included Procession and Everything's Gone Green and removed one or two other tracks.Had never occurred to me to try that but i may try a playlist with that tracklist and see how it stands up.

Oh and while i'm here: first version of Ceremony was by far and it still is my favourite ( that old debate has been done thousands of times i know)

Anyway, great work Mr Remmer.

I think I like Bernard's first version best, but it has been a while since I heard Ian's

Andy wrote: One of the good things about the internet is that it's easy to find like-minded enthusiasts.

That's the strangest expression for porn I've ever heard.

Fotzepolitic wrote: first version of Ceremony was by far and it still is my favourite

Secunted.

keepitcoming wrote: Yes, movement is better with your substitutions ... btw -You are doing an incredible service for new order and new order fans

Fotzepolitic wrote: Really liked the idea of a parallel universe version of Movement ... Anyway, great work Mr Remmer.

Thanks. Movement remains great and highly underrated. I just think there was a better pool of material available to create the strongest LP possible. Easy to say in hindsight...

Andy wrote: This forum ... gives Dennis a platform to share ... those who truly appreciate it ... quite a ways to go ... curious to read where he'll go from here

Its been great to go back to the start and really think about the tracks. I surprised myself in upping the ratings of some tracks (like The Him) that I'd otherwise passed over (read fast forward) for a long time. My biggest issue will be running out of superlatives 😎

Everything's Gone Green + Cries And Whispers reviews now up.

Mesh + Temptation reviews now up.

Will you be reviewing Turn The Heater On? As it's a cover version and only recorded for a Peel session I don't know if it'd qualify ? And also what about Too Late?

Fotzepolitic wrote: Will you be reviewing Turn The Heater On? As it's a cover version and only recorded for a Peel session I don't know if it'd qualify ? And also what about Too Late?

Yes. It does. Yes: 1st post

Fotzepolitic wrote: Will you be reviewing Turn The Heater On? As it's a cover version and only recorded for a Peel session I don't know if it'd qualify ? And also what about Too Late?

👍 ... quite soon in fact

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Will you be reviewing Turn The Heater On? As it's a cover version and only recorded for a Peel session I don't know if it'd qualify ? And also what about Too Late?

👍 ... quite soon in fact

Whew! Fotzepolitic was worried it would be...Too Late. HA HA HA HA *fart*

Hurt + Turn The Heater On reviews now up...

Dennis Remmer wrote: Ceremony, In A Lonely Place, Dreams Never End reviews now up.

I think In a Lonely Place would sound amazing with the ACO. Did you put a vote in here?: VividPoll. Any thoughts?

Andy wrote: [ I think In a Lonely Place would sound amazing with the ACO. Did you put a vote in here?: VividPoll. Any thoughts?

Voted for All Day Long.

Pretty much anything from the Order's string-laden atmospheric deep synths quarter will do nicely. Should be memorable.

I reckon the band will be nervous as f@#%, among all those 'real musicians'

Too Late + Ode To Joy (!) reviews now up...

Dennis Remmer wrote: Too Late + Ode To Joy (!) reviews now up...

Corrected the latter

Andy wrote:

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Will you be reviewing Turn The Heater On? As it's a cover version and only recorded for a Peel session I don't know if it'd qualify ? And also what about Too Late?

👍 ... quite soon in fact

Whew! Fotzepolitic was worried it would be...Too Late. HA HA HA HA *fart*

But it was Sooner Than You Think. OH! My wife told me to stop talking about Mel C. I said, Things will never be the same again.

Love Vigilantes and Perfect Kiss reviews now up.

This Time Of Night and Sunrise reviews now up.

Elegia + Sooner Than You Think reviews now up.

Keep your comments & own impressions coming...

..D

Agree totally about STYT. The rhymes are embarrassing though the opening and closing are OK. I'm sure Johnny Marr (so it must be true) said this was their worst song circa RTP.

Sub-Culture and Face Up reviews done. Low-Life complete.

Differences of opinion invited at any time...

Subculture is the only song I cum close to rating on the second half. The Record Mirror alt was good cos it was an extended take rather than a fuck up mix, and it increased rather than limited Hooky's contribution (Rest Of, anyone?) - pity about the crap 7" vinyl sound quality though. The Savile story was never corroborated - the only '''''authority''''' I found was the Paradise fanzine - but I liked Robie's attack. Pleasantly all over the place. I know the purists hated it but I even enjoyed that stridulent squawk (squawks usually are) at the end of the dub. Ah, happy days... Days when I noted 'A view without a room' on the LP track became 'A room without a view' on the single. This tells you a lot about the state of my social life then. And now. I remember reading that Gillian found it 'trite' too. Awesome, cumming from someone who took 3 years for 'Someone I hate / She thinks she's great' and 'He put the bags in the car and he felt much better / She wanted to drive but he wouldn't let 'er.' Pure Dylan.

I agree Bernard's lyrics in some songs from the 80s would seem to contradict themselves from sentence to sentence which if you really let it could be fucking annoying and nonsensical. I think Bernard or even the whole band have said they used to sit down and try and all come up with lyrics and then chuck 'em all into one song and chro bar them together so no fucking wonder a lot of them didn't make sense on some tracks.

The "giddyup" bassline on Face Up always seemed to me a nod to that Hi-Nrg sound of the mid 80s - singers (ahem) like Hazel Dean and there was another one whose track had that similar giddyup thing, i'm thinking Evelyn Champagne King or someone like that.She had a hit with a Hi Nrg bassline that was similar.Tried to find it on YouTube to demonstrate but to no avail.

Haven't commented much on these writings of yours Mr Remmer but while i'm here - yep, you certainly know how to put things into words when describing a song.Many song reviews you've done have matched my opinions and feelings about a sound, a melody, a drum sound, a lyric , whatever....Except i ain't clever enough to put it into words.Cracking job yer doing with this project of yours.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I The "giddyup" bassline on Face Up always seemed to me a nod to that Hi-Nrg sound of the mid 80s - singers (ahem) like Hazel Dean and there was another one whose track had that similar giddyup thing, i'm thinking Evelyn Champagne King or someone like that.She had a hit with a Hi Nrg bassline that was similar.Tried to find it on YouTube to demonstrate but to no avail..

Relax don't do it... (especially when this woman stares at you at 1.58)

^ Yep that's the one i had in mind- Evelyn Thomas, not Evelyn Champagne King.Mix that Frankie circa 84 Hi-Nrg type bass with some Hazel Dean from the same era and you've got Face Up's "giddyup" right there.

Shellshock + State of the Nation reviews posted.

Interesting to get a positive take on SOTN. I remember Select 93 considering the period a mid-term burn-out. But who cares what they think. The bassline is exactly the same as on Mr Disco and the rhymes are pretty cringeworthy. I always thought Mr Disco and Vanishing Point went on too long anyway.

Paradise and Weirdo reviews now up.

Great summation of Weirdo. I have always loved this tune. It is in my all-time New Order top-10. Amazing guitar from Bernard and he and Hooky really seem to be in sync on this track. It moves along at a good clip too. It sounds like Steve was a blur of flailing arms on this one. The last minute and 20 seconds sans lyrics is sublime. It is a sound they recaptured a little on Everyone Everywhere later. Brilliant.

TF1.0

Dennis you are doing a brilliant job with these reviews. I have been listening to all these again on my 24 year old Technics stack system and the tracks seem so refreshing after the way I have been listening to music in recent years.I never got round to getting an iPod! Still had minidiscs..laptops and tablets. PS shrink wrapping is killing music! I have the last Music Complete albums and all the related singles still sealed for the vinyl editions.Getting the CD singles open was an experience too! Regards Rocket Mick 😕

As It Is When It Was and Broken Promise reviews now up.

Way Of Life and Bizarre Love Triangle reviews now up.

All Day Long review now up.

Wanted this one to stand alone...

Don't exaggerate.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Don't exaggerate.

I promise.

Angel Dust and Every Little Counts reviews now up. Brotherhood complete.

Happy New Year everyone.

Dennis Remmer wrote: Angel Dust and Every Little Counts reviews now up. Brotherhood complete.

Happy New Year everyone.

Haha that was actually mooted as an idea Factory had for Brotherhood? To add to the vinyl version where there's the needle across the grooves sound at the end of Every Little Counts, the cassette version would have the sound of the tape squealing at the end of Every Little Counts and the CD version would have the sound of a CD glitch at the end? I'd never heard that story before and it'd of been well funny had Factory managed to go through with it😄

Happy new year.

Yeah I read about that in ClaudeFlowers' book, which was a welcome change to the usual crap you read, but it feels like I've been here before (see what I did there?). I also remember Smash Gits (so it must be true) saying the track is brilliant and even features singer Peter Hooke (SIC) laughing. Part of the fun of the band which went out the window alongside inner groove messages.

Dennis Remmer wrote: All Day Long review now up.

Wanted this one to stand alone...

Agree that it's one of their best, but no mention of Das Rheingold?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah I read about that in ClaudeFlowers' book, which was a welcome change to the usual crap you read, but it feels like I've been here before (see what I did there?). I also remember Smash Gits (so it must be true) saying the track is brilliant and even features singer Peter Hooke (SIC) laughing. Part of the fun of the band which went out the window alongside inner groove messages.

You and that bloody Claude Flowers book haha. If I had a pound for every time you mention it and the Melody Maker ( or NME?) review of Raise The Pressure I'd be, well, I'd have a lot more money and time having more fun than reading this forum . Or something.Never read that book but vaguely recall the Smash Hits review of Brotherhood and the writer thinking Peter Hooke was the singer.

New Order did eventually 25+ years later achieve their ambition of having a CD glitch sound on one of their songs at 37 seconds into I've Got A Feeling on Lost Sirens. Though you could argue they'd already got many a glitch sound on various reissues or remastered before that.

10.20 - 27 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYMkHtoRUbw 9.14 - 9.22 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7UNLfljUF0

True Faith and 1963 reviews now up.

Sorry Dennis what's all this about Substance 2 in the TF review?

?(the best of) wrote: Sorry Dennis what's all this about Substance 2 in the TF review?

Yeah, huh? Source?

Also where you say...

Oakenfold and Osbourne remained true to the source whilst adding value; with new drum, bass and glassy synth sounds, excellent glitchy patterns and modified sequences. To this day the band uses the Perfecto version at the heart of their live performances of TF

...I would have mentioned the house-y piano. That's the Perfecto bit I always notice, live.

And Pettibone's True Dub better than his vocal mix on the A side? No way Jose!

Debaser wrote:

And Pettibone's True Dub better than his vocal mix on the A side? No way Jose!

You should add your comments on the blog page. I welcome them - each to their own preference, particularly when it comes to mixes.

?(the best of) wrote: what's all this about Substance 2 in the TF review?

Nothing to see here, move on... 😎

1963 really was/is a fantastic song.Great lyrics by Bernard and one of his best ever vocals.Hague and the band achieved a marvellous sound with the recording, a really lovely production.Also, Hooky's bass near the end just tops off the song brilliantly.The original on the 1987 b side to TF is THE version.That 1994 version was vastly inferior from what i can remember but i haven't listened to it for years.Recall the best and most vital lyrics were cut out of that version as i think Dennis mentions and it had a shittier sound overall.I mean , why edit out the best lyrics of the fricking song????!!!!! FFS.The 1963-95 version was a little better than the 94 one but haven't listened to that for years either, wasn't it a little more guitary than the original and the 94 one? The dance remixes were all pretty pointless.

1963 is better than True Faith IMHO but you can see why they chose TF as the a side, it's faster and more radio friendly and catchy than 1963.But 1963 is the better song. A shame 1963, like certain other songs like Run or Dream Attack never worked very well live though.

I was obsessed with True Faith and 1963 in summer 1987 but rarely play the former now.The Pettibone mixes were really strong and of the 94 mixes the TWA one is pretty good.That King Roc one from the 12x12 campaign is worth a spin still now and then too.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Recall the best and most vital lyrics were cut out of that version as i think Dennis mentions and it had a shittier sound overall.I mean , why edit out the best lyrics of the fricking song????!!!!! FFS.The 1963-95 version was a little better than the 94 one but haven't listened to that for years either, wasn't it a little more guitary than the original and the 94 one? The dance remixes were all pretty pointless. .

They sure were. Why? Marketing bollocks. The 95 mix was a real rarity in that it sounded more NOy than the original. The Liarcock remixes set a record: 608587348233900 hours and not one millibilliwillisecond of the original. Well done, Sir. In 94 Fooky told Radio 1 (so it must be true) '''''they''''' were planning Substance 2 to update the original (and make wads without doing Fairground Attraction of course) - no new stuff but some mixes on the CD, and Rob Gretton had forced them to rerecord LWTUA for it. Sounded a bit pie in the sky and we got crappy Best Of instead, but I've been through this 34904568390 times before.

Salvation Theme + Touched By The Hand Of God reviews now up.

I much preferred the Cranberries' Salvation for its innovative and influential solution to drugs: To all those people doing lines, Don't do it. Don't do it... Heroin addicts everywhere, avid listeners to the Top 40 and the Cranberries in particular, took her advice and are now just awesome and dandy. Dolores now plans to end all wars, put a damn full stop on all those nastry terrorist fellows, and find a cure for every known disease in time for supper. Keep it up, Miss!

Touched By The Hand Of God has its moments but like Dennis says some of Bernard's vocals on it are rather grating on the ear.I remember hearing first the live version of it on the bootleg of the April 87 Woolwich gig before even True Faith came out and it reminding me at first of Blondie's Heart Of Glass ( in the bassline) .It seemed an eternity back in 1987 waiting for TBTHOG to be released.It finally made it out in December 1987 around the time of the Wembley Arena gig which i attended but which was my worst ever experience at a New Order gig as we were stuck in seats at the back, ugh.In its favour at least TBTHOG was massively different from their previous single in 1987 True Faith.It highlighted the fact New Order could do a lot of different sounding singles.

Salvation Theme was ok, maybe one of the better ones they did on the Salvation soundtrack.I bought the soundtrack on vinyl pretty much the day it was released in Feb 1988 though i've still never seen the film- from the impressions i can gather of the film it's one of the most forgettable and awful movies ever released, right? Of the soundtrack the 2 Cabaret Voltaire tracks on it are, to be honest, better than New Order's contributions.

Cun't agree less. The single version of TBTHOG was awesome, especially in Arthur Baker's 12" full glory; live it sounded pretty tacky though at least they once introduced it as something about getting pulled off. When I first heard the BBC live version I thought it was a crap way to start the gig (I later discovered it wasn't the first song but that's another story). The vid was a cheap sht and honestly, taking the piss outa rawk bands is about as orginal as Cornflakes. It's hard to imagine Bon Jovi taking the mick outa Hooky for Hendrixing Hague or the Other Two for being the least charismatic pair in music. The only remarkable thing is the director got Gillian to move a whole step. Well done.

Let's Go and Sputnik reviews now up.

The TBTHOG feedback has been excellently contrary. Keep it coming.

Skullcrusher and Fine Time reviews now up.

...and the NewOrderTracks blog is now 1 year old and has breached the 6,000 visitors / 50,000 hits mark - many many more than I ever envisaged. Thanks mainly to you lot (!) and the Singularity site. Nice one - cheers. 👍

At this rate I've got at least another year or more to go - so stay with me & keep your feedback coming.

Cheers D

Don't Do It and All The Way reviews now up.

Was interested to hear your opinions on All The Way. To me it's a New Order classic though it's rarely mentioned when the debate is about New Order's greatest songs. It was an undoubted stand out for me when I first listened to Technique and still is.Wonderful lyrics with a great message from Bernard, lovely melody , instrumentation and production.

Love Less + Round & Round reviews now up.

Round and Round was got me into the band via TOTP - then it was Technique, singles and PCL... After that it was nearly all downhill but I needed a hobby. Awesome track and awesome mixes, esecially the so called 12" on the CD which in classic NO style is, well, awesome, but now harder to find than a virgin on the stage - while balls like O2AndU or RTP are free for alls. Trainspotter fact: One of the reasons VP was on Best Of was it was originally considered as the 94 trailer single, and mixes exist but were never released. I don't think it'd work as well as Round outside the album context. VERY late follow up cos - well, no one cares why: I used to like Vanelli's 1963 vocal mix, but only cos I was a superfan and desperate for newbies. This was the closest I could get, i.e. a mix with both totally different music AND the full lyric.

Thanks Michael - that's quite lucid.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: ... into ... nearly ... downhill ... hobby ... classic ... virgin ... balls ... free ... context ... follow up ... why ... desperate ... lyric.

Hope you like my Vanelli quote remix.

P.S we care.

Round & Round- I was sometimes or maybe even always torn between the album version and the 7" Hague version ( prob in a minority on that Hague 7" version) The album version is great but the Hague 7" flows into the chorus better IMHO and i always loved the outro fade on it too.The album version despite its awesomeness kind of stops for a moment or jars before the chorus for me.Maybe i'm just a sucker for radio friendly versions.The flow into the chorus on Hague's 7" just brings an optimistic vibe ( it has an optimistic vibe with lyrics like that???) when the chorus hits ,more than the album version anyway.The 12" vinyl version has a great intro i'll say that. I recall back in the day 1989 staunch anti New Order friends i knew remarking how they had to admit they did like the song and particularly the chorus.It really was a great melodic chorus/lyric.I recall watching NO's performance of it on Top Of The Pops at a mate's house and his sister remarking "pwhoarr he's alright!" at the sight of Barney in his bling and cool haircut.Not sure she was as impressed with his live vocal though.Hey ho.

Love Less i always remembered as Loveless, like , without love.Where as Love Less seems to be encouraging you to not love as much, hold back.Whatever.An ok song but with great lyrics by Barney, it has its moments and i always actually liked the "town called liberty" line.Though the line i liked more was "There was a time i call before when all i knew was what i saw". A really good lyric.Thinking about the lyrics now it brings vague distant memories of those days back in the mists of time in the 80s when for some of us of that "doom laden" 80s generation where Sumner's lyrics in every single line or even word contained a message or pathos or an inspiration.

Fuck, someone on NOOL forums almost agrees with me on something. The Lioncock mixes of 1963 were acceptable in their own right but still a total rip off cos they exploited the NO flag. Everyone who bougt 'em wanted a fresh slant on the track and didn't get it. They did however achieve two seemingly imposible feets: 1) 764654505760874507646534537 hours and not one billisec of the original; 2) Convince even me it that being a vinyl completist was a total waste of beer money, wanking time and more beer money. So well done.

Best & Marsh and Guilty Partner reviews now up.

Apols for delay... been enjoying the new Goldfrapp album, and not enjoying the new Depeche Mode album.

/DR

Best & Marsh is ace.

Only thing i ever really took to about Guilty Partner were the keyboard bits 3/4 way through.

Guilty Partner is awesome and like Turn, it shows how strong a songwriter Bernard is when he can be arsed. Apparently it was shite live though (98).

Run + MTO reviews now up.

MTO was worthwhile IMO (this is English for YES). A downbeat, vague and weird delve into house minimaliasm, and for the retard that I was in 1992 getting a curio and locating samples from both Fine Time and Bizarre Love Triangle was the most fun I could have without the use of Susannah Hoffs and a shower attachment. Run 2? The single tightened up the original but the extended mix was total shite.

Like a lot of New Order album versions versus remix versions there are positives and negatives to each.I was always torn between the drum sound on the album version of Run and drum sound on the single version depending on what day it was/is.The single edit/remix has a lighter sound to the drums.Sublime keyboards on both versions though the album version slightly pips it on the keyboard sound but then i think Hooky's bass fares better on the single edit/remix though his bass on the album version was/is hard to beat.The 12" extended was utter shite and not worth further comment.The video to Run was possibly my favourite ever NO vid though unfortunately some of the scenes with the older man and the young girl though they're not actually "together" at any point look slightly dodgy in this day and age. The only thing i don't like about Run now is maybe its title.It's the kind of title the likes of crap like Snow Patrol now might use for a song title and indeed did.

Mr Disco and Vanishing Point reviews now up. Back to back brilliance.

DR

Great set of reviews for technique looking forward to one of my favourites (well they all are on technique) Dream Attack. Interesting reading some of the comments. Technique is one album I cannot understand anyone disliking it's so fuckin good. But -1 seems to hate it. I love how music can divide opinion so much even the same album.

One of my least favourite records by NO is morning night and day yet for Mr DR this is one album cut you think is better than the singles, once again another shock opinion to my ears!

Keep up this excellent review of all the NO catalogue. Shame I never thought of doing this myself before, although I have plenty of times in my own head. I think I have spent far too much time than is healthy thinking of New Order!

I'm always bemused how NO fans find levels that are lost on me. The 'awesome' instrumental breaks on Mr Disco strike me as padding cos 9 tracks is the least they could get away with (there was a great BS quote on getting so many songs written for Sirens: It was strange cos normally we'd just do enough to fill the album and then fuck off down the pub). Gillian's 'understated elegance' I always read as 'Fuck, fuck, fuck, they're pointing a camera at me and I still can't hack it.' According to new sociological research, men buy pornography to express a universal need traditionally associated with guilt and transpose it to one of euphoria. Far from constituting a threat, the user aims to purge himself of baser instincts so as to present a healthier public persona and contribute to a safer environment. Paradoxically, his urge is to reassert the superiority of the female form, which may act as a trope or broader feminist emancipation: Consider the rising number of female employees in mass media. He further provides income to those lacking means and qualifications which our society wrongly takes for granted... Wow. I thought I just like wanking.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: fuck off ... Fuck, fuck, fuck ... Wow ... wanking

😄

Thanks Michael - I look forward to tomorrow's instalment.

If I turn the blog into a book I may have to invite you to write the Afterword...

D

I've been asked to take all the swearing out of my act. Good night. What happened to Hooky in Dream Atttack? Check out the live versions - lovely!

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I've been asked to take all the swearing out of my act. Good night. What happened to Hooky in Dream Atttack? Check out the live versions - lovely!

you are continuously vile for no particular purpose than simply to be. such a sad person you must be.

Jumpin' the gun slightly but I guess the next one is Dream Attack, one of their best ever, so I expect a glowing review... My only whinge is that Hooky almost totally disappeared from the final mix! Listen to the 89 / 93 live takes and while they're less polished, there's a LOT of bass and it adds to the melncholia and wistfulness. The opening is almost reminiscent of 'Decades'...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Jumpin' the gun slightly but I guess the next one is Dream Attack, one of their best ever, so I expect a glowing review... My only whinge is that Hooky almost totally disappeared from the final mix! Listen to the 89 / 93 live takes and while they're less polished, there's a LOT of bass and it adds to the melncholia and wistfulness. The opening is almost reminiscent of 'Decades'...

seriously, you are going to make me google this crap? too much work man

Dream Attack + The Happy One reviews now up. Technique era completed.

Good work Dennis.

Dennis Remmer wrote: Dream Attack + The Happy One reviews now up. Technique era completed.

More than any other song on Technique, Dream Attack was the one song in the weeks and months after the album came out and then in the long hot summer of 1989 that became stuck in my head and constantly rattled around in my veins and bloodstream.It was ecstatic but at the same time melancholic, sad but at the same time optimistic.It was genius in its effortlessness.Bernard did say in the Melody Maker interview late 1988 a few weeks before Technique was released that he felt almost as if they weren't writing and creating the music , rather the music was coming down to and through them from some heaven or godly figure above and it seemed completely believable back then.I was actually surprised at the brilliance of Technique back then, when Substance was released 18 months before i had kind of thought oh they're running out of ideas by falling back on releasing a greatest hits.

Dream Attack is melancholic,optimistic, sad, hopeful, dreamy, touching, cool and a lot of other stuff that's impossible to put into words.

Dennis Remmer has added tons of something wonderful to the world of our favorite band . We of New Order fandom are lucky .

World In Motion review posted. Factory era done London here we come ...

What's the difference between WIM 7" and WIM 12"? 2 quid. Fucking rip-off. Mind you it worked for Transmission. I remember an NME WIM article where Bernard quipped, 'This must be the last straw for the JD fans!' The cover featured 'New Order's Barny and England's Barnsey' leering like teens who'd just mastered masturbation - 'KICKIN'!' - with a tiny pic of Ian in the corner: 'He died 10 years ago this wank'. Times change.

Have just listened again to WIM and 'the b side' for the first time in ages to find my opinion of the song again.

WIM is frivolous but at the same time really clever and witty.You can't really listen to it straight after a classic New Order song like Leave Me Alone or Run, but it is a good song.It's a strange thing.It was clever and playful in a way none of NO's peers like Depeche Mode or U2 could ever have come up with.

I remember being aware in the early months of 1990 that New Order were going to release a song for England's upcoming World Cup campaign at Italia 90 but was wary yet hopeful it would be good.Sometime, a few weeks before it was released a friend who hated New Order told me he had heard it and said he did think it was a good football song- and he's Scottish! I hadn't then yet heard it and recall asking him what it was like and he described the fact it started with a football commentary bit and i was like ha! that's brilliant, there hadn't ever been a football song with something like that in before at that time as far as i knew (for years after the idea became ten 'a penny)

I first heard the song on the radio when i was at work one day a week or two before it was released.I actually think my first impression was a bit, oh they've just stuck a new beat over that tune Steve and Gillian did for that Reportage tv show.The football commentary parts are great though.I guess i took to the song more once i had bought the 12" and England's World Cup campaign gathered momentum.The lyrics perfectly describe "the beautiful game" and you have to take your hat off to Keith Allen for that, as far as i understand he wrote most if not all of them? Or at least he wrote the great John Barnes rap.

I sometimes wished the beat could have had a bit more of a thump, but maybe that wouldn't have suited the song so well.And i would have wished some of the keyboards from the beautiful Roli Mossimann 'b side' could have been more integrated in to the main version but that's minor quibbles.The song actually has a big ending ,true to New Order fashion, everything is thrown in for those last moments, the beery, celebratory "En-ger-land!" in there against Hooky's bass, Steve's addictive drums,Gillan's keyboards and the repeating football commentary "Well it is now!"

I love 'the b-side' and always play it after i've played the single version.Some beautiful synths and beats.

Haven't listened to the remixes much for years but i was lucky enough to be in the Hacienda one Saturday night in May 1990 just before the Italia 90 started and was on the dancefloor when the DJ ( could have been Pickering? Or Graeme Park? can't recall now) dropped the No Alla Violenza mix as the very last track of the night.It was the first time i had heard the mix and it was a great moment.Right place right time.

The sleeve was genius clever Saville - a map of the world as football panels and a blurred hot summer "sun" in the top corner stretching out towards a blue "sky".

Having said all that i'm not sure World In Motion is my favourite football song anymore.When the BBC kept playing it in the backgound of their coverage of Euro 2016 (or was it Brazil 2014? Or Both?) I often found myself thinking oh change the record.I sooner dig out Fat Les' Vindaloo if i want to stick a football record on to get me in the mood for an upcoming England match when they are in the Euros or World Cup every other summer (if they even qualify).I actually even like England's 1982 World Cup anthem 'We're On Our Way' these days.

1990 seems a million years ago now.England's semi-final defeat to West Germany a long distant memory from another lifetime.It bloody hurt big time back then and for years after whenever the clip of Waddle's penalty flying over the bar was shown on tv all the pain came flooding back.England's,again, semi final defeat to , again, the Germans, again on penalties, at Euro 96 actually hurt even more though and since those so near to the final yet so far landmarks for us English it's been an ongoing, repeating source of pain, embarrassment, anguish and shame every two years at major football tournaments ( or even less frequent when England don't even manage to qualify) .I don't see much change in the forseeable future.

Oh, also, i was once the proud owner back in 1990 (ok maybe proud isn't the right word) of a pair of EnglandNewOrder World In Motion shorts.

I'll never forget that semi final match. Hooky bought Revenge to Derby The Dial bar, watched the match with Hooky which at the being only 17 was amazing to be chatting with one of my heroes from new order. Hardly anyone attend the gig, less than 40 people. Hooky refused to go on stage until the match was over. Even though we lost its a memory that will always stay with me.

Pink Floyd 's brilluant and beautiful Fearless ,from Meddle, with You'll Never Walk Alone, was the only football song I heard before WIM. WIM is a fine song but not very inspiring. New Order's Such A Good Thing does capture the feelings of anticipation , the excitement of sport, the childlike reverence, and it is just as inspiring for any sport- a fabulous magnificent song, The one by Ian McCulloch and the spice girls is such a dreadful abomination and shameful and horrible it should be played never again

keepitcoming wrote: The one by Ian McCulloch and the spice girls is such a dreadful abomination and shameful and horrible it should be played never again

I liked it but I'm biassed for two reasons (Melanie C's shoulderblades). WIM was once called 'the best football song of all time'. What competition.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I'm biassed for two reasons (Melanie C's shoulderblades).

Well it wasn't gonna be her breasts!

p.s. why are/were you so obsessed with this group? They foisted shit music on us and were so promo & merchandise-heavy they were impossible to avoid. Those of us who got into indie music did so to avoid commercial dross...

I shall not rise to that. I have to go for one day without mentioning any of the Spice Girls... Scary!

Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I'm biassed for two reasons (Melanie C's shoulderblades).

Well it wasn't gonna be her breasts!

p.s. why are/were you so obsessed with this group? They foisted shit music on us and were so promo & merchandise-heavy they were impossible to avoid. Those of us who got into indie music did so to avoid commercial dross...

Not a fan. But in those early, simpler times, I recall liking the tops they wore in the Wannabe video...

We went off-piste a bit there didn't we...

Regret & World reviews now up...

Excellent review of Regret and the interim period of side projects. Completely agree with your review on Republic as a whole. I too was hugely disappointed after Technique and the Electronic album. Like you at the time other music interested me more, for me the basic channel sound of Berlin, Jeff Mills, Rob Hood, UR from Detroit. But time has proved this to be a lot better album than I originally thought particularly side A.

The strange thing about Regret is I originally thought the Fire Island Mix was the '''''proper''''' version cos (a) I heard it on Rado One and (b) I bought the 12" and was used to Factory, i.e. the complete version on 12" with an edited 7". As such, it struck me as NICE but that's hardly a compliment - it wasn't until I heard the true version I understood it was classic NO - hesitant but heartfelt lyrics, swooming synth, dreamy drumming, crashing guitar and THAT bass, including one of the Hookster's finest moments since BLT. It bode well for the album, but that turned out to be bollocks. Unfortunately, it's been played to death - the only 'Reublic' gig constrant since, well, 'Republic... The Slow / Low mix was intriguing but like my genitals, far too long. The Fast / Throb mix was total filler and sadly auspicious for 65465376068756i53 London mixes: some overpaid, undertalented DJ indulges its ego at the band's / fans' expense but ooooooooh fuck, there's a token line from the original so this is New Order innit. World never takes off for me, mainly cos there's no Hooky. The Perfecto mix pisses over the original, and - fact fans! - an original Brothers in Rhythm mix appeared on the RIAD 12". That's how bored I was back then. The video works though, not least cos of the Hitchcock one-sequence technique. It also reveals Gillian in all her awesome, stage-swaggering, heroic glory: one 64487068750850764076437643064074077th of a second in front of the camera and she still can't cope. She is the John Lydon of pap.

The moody blues regret remix was the one I was always hoping for, but then New Order could have done some truly rousing versions of 'ride my seesaw', or 'question', but didn't.
Meanwhile , Republic is brilliant and groovy and the songs are easy to sing along with , especially avalanche

keepitcoming wrote: The moody blues regret remix was the one I was always hoping for, but then New Order could have done some truly rousing versions of 'ride my seesaw', or 'question', but didn't.

Yeah, I think everyone was expecting those.

Getting a bit ahead here but on a Republic theme...

If only Times Change had always been a stonking instrumental.

Rorschach wrote: Getting a bit ahead here but on a Republic theme...

If only Times Change had always been a stonking instrumental.

That's what I thought when I heard the nstrumental on Saturday

That setlist looks awesome (unlike rowing, that's oarsome). It's like 1998 when they finally started digging out lesser-played tracks after 89 / 93's NO-by-nrs. PS Special mention to the TOTP World for (a) Hooky miming like Pete Townsend to a synth and (b) Stephen looking even more mentally unstable than usual. Is he all right?

I've said this before, but I'll say it again in a way pertaining to this thread: the three Electronic albums really fill the gaps, during the 1990s, and almost seamlessly flow one after the other in conjunction with New Order. The electronic tracks on Technique hint at what Electronic (the album) will be. To me Republic is a refined sequel to Electronic and, in my opinion, the pinnacle of Bernard Sumner's work in this decade. The album is an to asset New Order and the band's star wouldn't burn quite so bright without it. Raise the Pressure is a more natural follow up to Republic than Electronic. A definite relative in sound, but without Hague at the controls, has a sloppier execution. There is also a return to a greater number of guitar based tracks that nicely predicts Twisted Tenderness. Get Ready is essentially a rawer version to Twisted Tenderness' heavy overproduction. For these reasons I primarily consider myself a fan of Bernard Sumner's music, as oppose to strictly New Order...

These arguments run like me in front of Spice Girls videos. I got into NO through the triple whammy of Substance, Technique and Electronic. After that it was more the fun of collecting than the actual music. Then the triple shite of Republic, Rest Of and Raise the Pressure and Things Would Never Be The Same Again. I have to go for a whole day without making any childish innuendoes. It's long and hard but I can pull it off.

Fotzepolitic wrote:

The sleeve was genius clever Saville - a map of the world as football panels and a blurred hot summer "sun" in the top corner stretching out towards a blue "sky".

turn the sleeve 90 degrees left...

"E"

Mind blown!

Where will it end?

Another rare World mix... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laI57L48THM Still a shit song though.

mmh wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote:

The sleeve was genius clever Saville - a map of the world as football panels and a blurred hot summer "sun" in the top corner stretching out towards a blue "sky".

turn the sleeve 90 degrees left...

Rorschach wrote: "E"

Mind blown!

Where will it end?

Never realised that before.Well well well.But Saville intend that or is it just a coincidental accident?

While i'm here, Regret was ace back in the day.Like Michael Monkhouse i thought the Fire Island mix was the main version because that's what Joe Wiley seemed to imply when she played it on Radio 1 in March 1993.Didn't find out it was a remix until i heard the actual main (guitary) version a few weeks later. World, like a lot of Republic was fairly meh for me.Like Mr Remmer says in his write up how he had become more interested in other acts by the time of Republic, by 1993 i had got really into other music like Aphex Twin, The Orb, Orbital, System 7, Ultramarine and all that lot.Aphex Twin's stuff around that time was doing a lot more for me than Republic.

Coincidence IMO. Did you know that if you see the word 'choice' in capitals on a piece of paper, turn the paper upside down, turn it around and then hold it in front of a source of bright light, it reads 'choice' exactly the same? SO WHY FUCKING DO IT? In 1996 the Spice Girls were doing more for me than Electronic. I asked them to.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

I got into NO through the triple whammy of Substance, Technique and Electronic. After that it was more the fun of collecting than the actual music. Then the triple shite of Republic, Rest Of and Raise the Pressure and Things Would Never Be The Same Again.

You went through virtually the same New Order school as me - except I loved Republic for its majestic brilliance, and didn't mind the next two Electronic albums. If I'm honest, I did want New Order back. I was disappointed encore when they did return with Get Ready. It was almost as if they had turned into the type of band they were mocking in the Touched video - Rock the twat and all that - minus Gillian's fetish loveliness...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Another rare World mix... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laI57L48THM Still a shit song though.

Didn't sound very good to me. World on Republic is a great track. I agree with Dennis, they could have used a dab or two of Hooky's bass, but it's still a beautifully crafted piece of pop melancholia - like the rest of Republic - and most of New Order...

For me (this is English for I Am Right), RTP was the first inessential album. Till then there'd been a steady development as they'd struggled at first becaue NOT THAT STORY FUCKING AGAIN and then peaked 87 - 89. Reflange, The Other Two and even Repubelick were mediocre but in a sense I didn't mind cos it represented the end of an era. After that there were three years of ripoffs and then the occasional release with the even more occasional gem, but no real sense of Moving On (see what I did there?). I don't mind Get Ready - I think people were just grateful to have any NO, particularly with so much bass - there's a dip after the middle but there always is, even in Technique and Electronic. Crystal kicks butt, Turn My Way and VS are perfect melancholia, and PN would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if only the words weren't so limpwristed. I also have a soft spot for Dracula's Castle, which proved unpopular round these parts. The synth is reminiscent of Technique, the bass is high up there after the wank of Rep and Rest Of, and I even like the lyrics, which in classic Barnster styleee are both meaningless and meaningful. I also have a soft spot for Mel C, but that's old age. I remember NME running a loooooong article about whether they were splitting up, and the journo 'immersed myself in World' which she insisted was 'sad, almost like a Requiem'. I couldn't help feeling myself. Sorry, I couldn't help feeling myself she was just looking for levels that weren't there, which pretty much sums up all the journobabble in 93. In a similar vein, do you really find any fetish loveliness in Gillian? I've always found The Other Two extrtemely bland, both musically and as personalities.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

I don't mind Get Ready - I think people were just grateful to have any NO, particularly with so much bass - there's a dip after the middle but there always is, even in Technique and Electronic. Crystal kicks butt, Turn My Way and VS are perfect melancholia, and PN would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if only the words weren't so limpwristed. I also have a soft spot for Dracula's Castle, which proved unpopular round these parts. The synth is reminiscent of Technique, the bass is high up there after the wank of Rep and Rest Of, and I even like the lyrics, which in classic Barnster styleee are both meaningless and meaningful.

I listened to Get Ready today, as my opinion has been known to change. I'm glad I did, for Crystal - even with its honey / money bullshit - is probably New Order's last major anthem; I'm basically agreeing with Peter Hook on this. I could never love Turn My Way with its pointless guess vocal, and another dozy chorus, in which Bernard enthusiastically bores us into oblivion over washing his fucking car and not owning a key; must live in a care home or something, eh? I don't have a problem with Primitive Notion. Fans have commented on the clumsy lyrics, but I think they're quite interesting. It's my favourite track on the album. I used to say Morris did a good job on the drums, but since learnt he didn't play on the song at all (according to Hook again)!

Although related, WFTSC is a whole different conversation, alhtough I agree Dracula's Castle isn't too bad. It has a certain warmth. I like the fact they named it after Jane Seymour's house. What were they trying to say about the English Rose?

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

In a similar vein, do you really find any fetish loveliness in Gillian? I've always found The Other Two extremely bland, both musically and as personalities.

When I said 'fetish', I was referring to her rock chic attire in the Touched video. In the days before the Internet that video got me through lonesome tonight (I'm sure Gillian will be pleased to know). She stole the show, in spite of the director focusing on her the least for some crazy reason. After reading Hooky's book, I did kind of wonder whether he once had a thing for her; he made a song and dance about the only time she ever touched him. Gillian was pretty and sensual throughout the 1980s...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAviBlIt4D0&list=PLyygAsB8FRv\_m5FzaSwBzXYuWh0RAmJKX

How do you post videos?

Wow, thanks for that link. My nads are now dragging along the floor, my helm is up there like the Cutty Sark mast and I'm struggling to write this with my free hand. The Turd My Way lyrics ain't bad. The worst Barnster lyrics in MHO Again are when he goes into 'hey now, things could be kinda NICE if we were NICE cos life can be NICE, right'? Think Close Range, HNWTD, Dynamo - or rather, don't. NICE? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPUeB2ZqQU Off topic but I always got the impression people only '''fancy''' Gillian cos of the band. If she was your bank manager or you saw her walking down the street... She isn't partcularly good-looking (and I used to consider that kind of comment sexist, but then I overheard women on guys they're not into: man, they make Adolf Hitler sound like Emma Bunton), but the real problem is her total lack of charisma. She never says a word unless asked directly, and on stage she just looks like she wants to go to beddie-byes in her cute lickle farm. I'm shy too, but I ain't spent over 35 years in pop music... Incidentally, you can buy honey.

Deceiver wrote:

How do you post videos?

Like this:

At some point Youtube added an 's' onto the http at the begining of the address. However the BB codes on this forum haven't been updated since then (the Vimeo BB code thingy doesn't work at all now). Considering this forum is free I probably shouldn't complain though. So if you select Youtube from the BB dropdown, then paste the youtube address in - but delete the 's' on https - it should work.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

The Turd My Way lyrics ain't bad.

Even you don't sound convinced of that...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPUeB2ZqQU

Haha! Hate Dire Straits. Good old Alexi Sayle...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Off topic but I always got the impression people only '''fancy''' Gillian cos of the band. If she was your bank manager or you saw her walking down the street... She isn't partcularly good-looking (and I used to consider that kind of comment sexist, but then I overheard women on guys they're not into: man, they make Adolf Hitler sound like Emma Bunton), but the real problem is her total lack of charisma. She never says a word unless asked directly, and on stage she just looks like she wants to go to beddie-byes in her cute lickle farm. I'm shy too, but I ain't spent over 35 years in pop music...

All famous people have a heightened sex appeal; it's the same for anyone. The bank manager example could be used with Mel C just as easily.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Incidentally, you can buy honey.

Here comes love, it's like *curry* you can buy it with money - this is John Major's preferred version... Bernard should know you can also pay to have your car washed - problem solved...

My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.

That's a bit cruel, old dewdrop. I specifically said the 1980s and gave a link as an example.

Just for that, here's a little fat fantasy for you:

I was quietly enjoying the fact that you'd all started pre-empting me, and then I had to look away. 😂

Dennis Remmer wrote: I was quietly enjoying the fact that you'd all started pre-empting me, and then I had to look away. 😂

Sorry, Dennis, I'm looking forward to your next review to get this thread back on track...

Deceiver wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: My best friend said Mel C is a girl next door. So I moved in with him. Would you really like to poke and grope areas previously soaked and choked by Stephen Morris? www.abc.net.au/radionational/image/7467440-3x2-700x467.jpg What hornsome, wankworthy, dick-stiffening specimens they are... http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Gillian.jpg http://www.mikethefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Stephen.jpg How heads must turn, cocks must stand to attention and pussies must sluice every time these stunning. sizzling razzle dazzlers swagger down the street... https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsFmxpeLVokTFCWWzW-VPk1ZltfHKhxJmayhzXy4v3\_XakZK8c They just don't care how any hearts they break, pricks they preen or vags they get a-dribblin' do they? https://secondhandsongs.com/picture/195116 REAL wank bank regulars.

That's a bit cruel, old dewdrop. I specifically said the 1980s and gave a link as an example.

Just for that, here's a little fat fantasy for you:

I still got a boner! Apologies to Dennis for turning his objective appraisal into a mass debate. PS 'According to Hooky...' So it must be true.

I have to say I agree with the comments on how irrelevant NO seemed in 1993. It was my first Summer back after uni and all my friend was sharing the awesome stuff he'd got into in the meantime. It was hard to imagine Liar being played at top volume to the excitement of a sweaty dancefloor. RIAD was actually the second single but I'm sure you know that and I probably misread something. Claude Flowers (ha!) agreed it was the worst thing they ever put their name to. It partcularly wound me up that these ''''''rad 'n' staunchly anti-commercial'''''' Wankunians had the B-sides spread like a prostitute's legs, so you had to buy all of them to get everything and it was still shit. When I first played CD 2 I thought the player was jammed and playing the same bollocks track again and again. (The 'definitive' one is the Dance Hall Groove. I know this because I was a trainspotter, not because it was worth half a wank). The Ambient Mix from Neneh Cherry's sidekick Booga Bear was acceptable and used to introduce them at Reading, but still smacked of compromise and filthy lucre. The only really worthwhile one was K-Klass which reappeared on Rest Of and had edits on both TOTP and Radio 1's Top 40. I was such a geeky nerdy little trainspotting wanker back then. Now I'm just a cunt. Young Off as a single? Hmmm... There was something about that song that never quite came together. It had all the elements of Round and Round but the sum of the parts and all that. Tiger attacked a bugonia. Claude Flowers.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I have to say I agree with the comments on how irrelevant NO seemed in 1993. It was my first Summer back after uni and all my friend was sharing the awesome stuff he'd got into in the meantime. It was hard to imagine Liar being played at top volume to the excitement of a sweaty dancefloor.

Irrelevant? I believe the Republic era was commercially New Order's most successful album - and likely always will be now. There was a mood change around this time with the Britpop thing taking off. Sometimes I think fans who hate Republic wanted New Order to be like Oasis - boring rock and roll stars...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: RIAD was actually the second single but I'm sure you know that and I probably misread something. Claude Flowers (ha!) agreed it was the worst thing they ever put their name to. It partcularly wound me up that these ''''''rad 'n' staunchly anti-commercial'''''' Wankunians had the B-sides spread like a prostitute's legs, so you had to buy all of them to get everything and it was still shit. When I first played CD 2 I thought the player was jammed and playing the same bollocks track again and again. (The 'definitive' one is the Dance Hall Groove. I know this because I was a trainspotter, not because it was worth half a wank). The Ambient Mix from Neneh Cherry's sidekick Booga Bear was acceptable and used to introduce them at Reading, but still smacked of compromise and filthy lucre. The only really worthwhile one was K-Klass which reappeared on Rest Of and had edits on both TOTP and Radio 1's Top 40. I was such a geeky nerdy little trainspotting wanker back then. Now I'm just a cunt. Young Off as a single? Hmmm... There was something about that song that never quite came together. It had all the elements of Round and Round but the sum of the parts and all that. Tiger attacked a bugonia. Claude Flowers.

Haha! Claude Flowers: was he a real person, or just a pseudonym for Peter Hook? Either way, they wipe the same arsehole... Yes, Flowers hated Republic and critical of Electronic, but thought Revenge's One True Passion was a modern masterpiece...

Frenchman with two dicks mauled by tiger. Claude Nobbes. I meant irrelevant musically. In 1993 NO were huge but that was cos of London (don't believe that Borely shite about 'pretending to go glossy': he'd justify anally raping kittens if a Manc musician confessed to it). The handful of actual songs rarely stepped beyond mediocrity. I know I've been through this 80697470 before but in the preNettish days Claude Flowers was a breath of fresh air. his sobre, informed approach was a welcome change from Paul Lester (sycophant), Savage (zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) and Borely himself (pretentious wank). His Only Mistake (see what I did there?) was the solo projects: that awesome Electronic debut gets short shrift, while the bullshit Other2AndU and bullshitter OneTrueWankedOn enjoy rave reviews.

Ruined In A Day + Vicious Circle reviews now up.

Flu = Delay. Better now.

I agree about Ruined.I kind of like some of Barney's lyrics and the way he sings one or two of the lines, i like some of the music but there's something unlikeable about the thing ultimately, dunno what or why.Maybe it's just all a bit a plod-a-long.Not listened to Vicious Circle in years, i'll have to dig it out.I remember some of it being really good, pretty fun and funky and melodic in places?

I'm glad you're over your flu, Dennis. Good reviews as always - whether I agree with you or not. You've persuaded me to dig out my CD single. I only bought the one for economic reasons and fear of being exploited. The price tag says: "Music Junction £1.99". I don't even have a vague recollection of what Music Junction looked liked, but I can say the price was well worth it. When it comes to remixes, I pretty much ignore them unless they grab me. The Ambient Mix is suitably foreboding and The K-Klass Mix is one of my favourite remixes. Vicious Circle is nothing special, but it's nice to end on an original track.

I agree Ruined In A Day is a strange choice for single. I like the song a lot, but it's one of the least commercial sounding tracks on the album. However, New Order fans can't have it both ways: this single gave us something different to the typical New Order uptempo anthem - dark and brooding - the very mood many New Order fans wanted them to return to for years. Bernard really excelled himself with the lyrics on Republic. Because of his occasional howlers, he really doesn't get enough credit for how good a lyricist he can be. Technique to Republic is his most consistent period. Ruined In A Day is no exception. I'm sure Morrissey would eat a Big Mac to have an opening line as good as, "Listen, I may be wrong, but you're missing."

Ruined In A Day is like an eerie gentle thunder and there's nothing else quite like it. The track might not be one of their best singles but, sadly, it's still better than most of the following singles...

Good news: Amidst the endless, pointless, soulless truckload of London rerereremixes there was an original B-side. Bad news: It was Vicious Menstrual Cycle. 'Gotta have house... MUSIC!' in 1993. Good to see they were still on the cutting edge of music. The Italian house pianos are no improvement on That Fucking Footie Record, and the practice of 'the ---- one' goes back to Technique and before. I wouldn't be surprised if this was an old, unfinished leftover - in fact the only cool thing is you get more Hooky on one track than on all Repubelick put together. THREE INTERESTING FACTS ABOUT VICIOUS SHITELE

1. It brings the Refucklick number of tracks up to 12. There were rumours it was gonna be a 13-song LP (fourth article at https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/tag/693/New\_Order), which sounded awesome but quality not etc. In '96 the Barnster said they did 13 gigs, one for each song on Rep, but the bastards never told me there were only 12 songs on it. Like a virgin punk, he just doesn't give a fuck.
2. Monaco reused the bassline on Sweet Lips, like EGG on Shattered - Born to Kill is Under the Stars and practically Ms Merton Theme and slightly less Weirdo. Just keep knockin' out those hits, eh?
3. That is the end of my three interesting facts about Vicious Circle. I hope you enjoyed them.

Jumping the pistol (something Nancy Spunged-on used to like doing) but I have to get off the Net. Like my cuddly bear who can't give up anal: a-dicked-ted. Sppoky was the first in the long line of London rip-offs in that the band weren't even speaking to each other, let alone prepared to promote through video or TV appearances. A mid-93 NME (or maybe MM) interview with the Other Goo said they felt they'd sold part of their souls already, like there'd be no more vids for art's sake, and when London started BSing about a Republic backpack and a 4th single to sell up to Christmas it just didn't sound very NOery... Fortunately, Spooky actually turned out to be very good and arguably their best release all year. Yes, even better than RIAD CD 2. The Fluke mix was what I wanted Republick to sound like: strong lyrics, interesting new synth and THAT bass - but the real joy was the 2nd CD and the Stadium mix is pretty much an object lesson in how to mix i.e. stay true to the original but give it more umph. MM (or maybe NME) slagged off Republic, the remixes and The Other Pooh and More Pooh but commented that Fluke's Spooky 'could go on and on. It doesn't of course but it's been a criminally long time since I wanted a New Order record to go on for threre minutes, never mind forever.' Rest of the album: let's not waste time. Shit. We've had over 20 years to try to find anything else, but...

Spooky + Everyone Everywhere reviews now up.

I agree the album version of Spooky just leaves me flat. Some unlikeable elements to it.Some of the remixes are great though, can't remember which one is which but I have 2 different CDs of Spooky or maybe even 3. It's all a long time ago. Just a few months ago in a second hand record shop I stumbled across a 12" of Spooky with 3 mixes on ( all originally on the CDs) I hadn't realised til then that a 12" of Spooky was the only one of the standard UK 12" single releases from Republic I didn't have or even that they'd released a 12" of it. I snapped it up immediately, fairly cheap as well at £8.A lucky find.

Everyone Everywhere is ok, some great lyrics by Bernard lift it.

Buggered if I can hear Hooky in Everyone Everywhere. The 12" of Spooky was apparently 'available for one week only'. This was salesspeak for 'Buy it now please.' Yes, I fell for it.

No doubt Spooky is a good track, but I have one problem with it - I hate the name - seems so childish and irrelevant to the song, especially with the vocoded voice at the beginning. Hooky's bass may only be on the track for a short time, but it's very effective leading up into the chorus. The remix they released as a single sounds good and with a bit more bass going on - it's a different experience to the album version, like all good remixes.

Everyone Everywhere is one of my favourite New Order songs. It's the band at their melancholic best. Actually, this song could easily have fitted on Technique, except for I can't help thinking Bernard's brilliant lyrics are a sad tribute to the disbanding band - which makes it very Republic...

Deceiver wrote: No doubt Spooky is a good track, but I have one problem with it - I hate the name - seems so childish and irrelevant

I think the title is playful. The only problem I have with Spooky is that's it's not a very good tune. Much more important to me.

Deceiver wrote: especially with the vocoded voice at the beginning.

Taken from this (0.19)

I thought Mr Remmer might give it a mention. I suppose he still could if he wanted....

Listening to the first few seconds (0.07) of Bass Mechanic now has me thinking of... BM '88. A non-regular forumite came here around April/May last year asking what the (sped up sounding) female voice was on BM '88. He thought it might have been from an old 1950's TV show. I can't find the thread now. I wonder if the thread-starter subsequently deleted it? At the time I suggested it was either French, "on y va" (which got poo poo'd by a French forumite) or "Oliver, Oliver...".

Now listen again to the first few seconds of the above track. Is this the source of that BM '88 voice? Bass Mechanic came out in '86.

(If it is, that still leaves the bit that sounds like "get down ...and get down" as a mystery, I think)

Debaser wrote:

I thought Mr Remmer might give it a mention. I suppose he still could if he wanted....

Having others fill info-gaps in my reviews actually gives me warm fuzzies.

Thanks for this one...

Maybe it used to be called Techno 2...? https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/artefact/16272/NEW\_ORDER\_PRESS\_ARTICLE\_1993 Mind you, a shit song's a shit song. Who cares about the name? Stephen Moggies once said Regret, Special and Everyone Everywhere werethe first they worked on - also the only ones played live apart from the singles. Maybe Republic started as a decent NO LP but degenerated as they didn't get on and poptastic Hague and Barney took over. Who knows? Who cares? It's shit.

Deceiver wrote:

Everyone Everywhere could easily have fitted on Technique.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. No. No.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Maybe it used to be called Techno 2...? https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/artefact/16272/NEW\_ORDER\_PRESS\_ARTICLE\_1993

Interesting clipping.

"Own 'Manchester' label" ???

"Mixed Regrets" ???

Yeah! It's a nostalgia thing cos I used to collect things like a little twot. Now I'm Big Twot. I had a theory Techno 2 was actually Spooky. That's how much fun I was having back then. There was a little talk about the label at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2666#post16444.

its working title was 'Spooky One'.

Hours of fun. http://www.new-order.net/no/facs/workingtitles.html http://imgur.com/zWAQY0J I'm convinced chatting about New Order is more interesting than listening to them.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Maybe it used to be called Techno 2...? https://www.mdmarchive.co.uk/artefact/16272/NEW\_ORDER\_PRESS\_ARTICLE\_1993 Mind you, a shit song's a shit song. Who cares about the name? Stephen Moggies once said Regret, Special and Everyone Everywhere werethe first they worked on - also the only ones played live apart from the singles. Maybe Republic started as a decent NO LP but degenerated as they didn't get on and poptastic Hague and Barney took over. Who knows? Who cares? It's shit.

It was always my understanding that Regret and Young Offender were the first tracks as Pascal Gabriel is credited with the "pre-production" before they brought Hague in.

I think Young Offender is one of the better tracks and thought it was being considered for single release as there was a Young Offender t-shirt sold at US shows.

In mid-92 the Hookster said the new album, which was proving 'difficunt', would show a much harder side to the band, and he namechecked Ev Ev. This, plus what I wrote above re Steve and the gigs, gave me the impression Republic started as a classic NO LP but turned into pube-in-the-sink as (a) they weren't up for it and (b) Hague and Bernard took over. I can't offer any insights - just a theory I had. Liar is well fuckin' hard, innit?Sounds like Slipknot to me. I can't believe how many times I've talked about Republic when I don't even like it. I guess a guy needs a hobby.

Andy wrote:

I think Young Offender is one of the better tracks and thought it was being considered for single release as there was a Young Offender t-shirt sold at US shows.

There's something painfully lacking in Young Offender and like the G-spot, I just can't put my finger on it. It SHOULD be up there with Round and Round - synth stabs, emotive lyrics, crisp beats, even a lot of Hooky by Hague's standards - but it just, I dunno, isn't. It never really takes off the way it should do, and this time I can't blame Hague. Sum of the parts and all that.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

I can't believe how many times I've talked about Republic when I don't even like it. I guess a guy needs a hobby.

I was thinking Republic is really hated by fans on this forum - and then I realised it was just you saying its shit over and over again! I thought Mel C was your, er... hobby...

And they say the Germans have no sense of humour. https://boldomatic.com/view/post/l72Dew

Dug out one of the Spooky CDs i have.It has "Z New Order Release" on the front and indeed when you open up the case it opens out in a Z shape.Is that the idea/joke? Or the Z was noting the fact it was the last release of the Republic era, the last letter.Whatevs.

Hours of fun. Today is 17 - 8 - 17. If you take those elements and read them backwards, it still says 17 - 8 - 17. So why do it?

Fotzepolitic wrote: Dug out one of the Spooky CDs i have.It has "Z New Order Release" on the front and indeed when you open up the case it opens out in a Z shape.Is that the idea/joke? Or the Z was noting the fact it was the last release of the Republic era, the last letter.Whatevs.

I thought it might have simply been a typo that slipped through the net. Z being just below A on a QWERTY keyboard. Perhaps one of our super-knowledgable fellow forumites knows the truth (Mr James for instance)?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hours of fun. Today is 17 - 8 - 17. If you take those elements and read them backwards, it still says 17 - 8 17. So why do it?

When I read it backwards I get 71 - 8 - 71. Just sayin...

The Shadow wrote:

Rorschach wrote: Getting a bit ahead here but on a Republic theme...

If only Times Change had always been a stonking instrumental.

That's what I thought when I heard the nstrumental on Saturday

Wait, what? Where do I hear this?

Dennis Remmer wrote: We went off-piste a bit there didn't we...

Regret & World reviews now up...

Did anyone miss the Blade Runner v New Order thread on the French forum? I guess this could almost be in New Order spotting, except it's kinda the wrong way round...

blade runner off world

Debaser wrote:

I think the title is playful.

Hours more fun. These Mancs always crack me up. 0.27 - 0.30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVxsH8woZSQ

Debaser wrote: [

When I read it backwards I get 71 - 8 - 71. Just sayin...

Did you know that if you look at a black and white photo of Ian Curtis for 35 minutes and then turn ypur gaze directly to a blank surface opposite - you need a hobby. I always thought the Z was just an alternative to the usual A. I wouldn't read too much into it, but that's what New Order fans seem to like doing... It can't be a typo cos it was on a press ad as 'Limited Edition (I think) Z CD part 2'. The band had bugger all to do with it anyway - it was just London squeezing maximum return from their dodgy investment.

Late follow-up but I also had a RIAD 'Phased and Dazed' mix on https://www.discogs.com/it/New-Order-The-Remix/release/7706942 - boy, did it suck! At least the Bogle mixes added something new - this just whoosed the original in and out. To add incest to injury, this was pre Bubetube so I'd shelled out for the full length CD just for four trax: this piece of poo - an acceptable but innessential 'Paradise' mix - a 'Sister Ray' Oz's Live 'n' Dangerous (actually live so worthwhile though I don't know from which gig) - and a BM Disco Only Club Mix (sounded like Beach Buggy on speed). No wonder I gave up being a collector.

Debaser wrote:

The Shadow wrote:

Rorschach wrote: Getting a bit ahead here but on a Republic theme...

If only Times Change had always been a stonking instrumental.

That's what I thought when I heard the nstrumental on Saturday

Wait, what? Where do I hear this?

Snippet only here:

MIF17

Would pay realcashmoney for the full rendition!

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Late follow-up but I also had a RIAD 'Phased and Dazed' mix on https://www.discogs.com/it/New-Order-The-Remix/release/7706942 - boy, did it suck! At least the Bogle mixes added something new - this just whoosed the original in and out. To add incest to injury, this was pre Bubetube so I'd shelled out for the full length CD just for four trax: this piece of poo - an acceptable but innessential 'Paradise' mix - a 'Sister Ray' Oz's Live 'n' Dangerous (actually live so worthwhile though I don't know from which gig) - and a BM Disco Only Club Mix (sounded like Beach Buggy on speed). No wonder I gave up being a collector.

I bought this bootleg too.

The only thing really good about it was, in my opinion, the inclusion of the soundtrack versions of True Faith, Temptation and BLT, which were difficult to get at the time. All three are pretty good and the Hague version of BLT, included on the Married To The Mob soundtrack, is probably my favourite version of the song.

Hague's BLT (OST and pretty much '94) would be my favourite take but he stoopidly loses part of the second instrumental break. In the words of Annie Lennox, WWWWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY? So I gotta stick with the Brotherhood version. Shit Poooperboned fucked it up too, especially on the Hookless poptastic 12". His TF take is also sadly dated. In the 80s he was a bit of a prostitute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shep\_Pettibone#Selected\_remixing\_credits) - in fact, the opposite of a prostitute: he'd do anything EXCEPT sex. There was rumoured to be a Pet Shop Boys TF remix but links tended to go straight to Old Shep's. The confusion probably arose cos of Shep's Pets link or cos the Pets sometimes DJed and were / are big NO fans. Given the high profile of both acts, I'm sure if such a track did exist it'd be all over the Net by now.

I still really like Shep's New Order mixes. I find it really difficult to criticise any of the NO mixes from the 80s, due to some of the terrible remixes we've had since that decade (RIAD CD2, I'm looking at you). The 80s, for me, was the golden age of remixing. New Order, PSBs, DM all had some great mixes.

I used to be a big fan of ConOmFusArsIOn but paradoxically it's dated worse than the original. With Factory the mixes usually had a lot in common with the original and even if they didn't, the band might launch into them live (I'm thinking Feel Every Beat or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0V0f7rdHHI), implying they were at least part of them. The endless rehashes really started with TF 94 (or even Spooky), just cos London were desperate to recoup their investment. I was a superfan in the mid-90s but even I found it hard to get excited about stuff that was (a) so obviously about money first and quality second, and (b) so totally lacking in the original sound. I think it was Lionrock's three Nearly-totally-and-utterly-unlike 1963 mixes that finally convinced me to stop bothering... http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=20275. It's strange... MC is my favourite album from this camp since Electronic but I couldn't be arsed with tracking down all the remixes this time around. It's a combination of money, lack of interest / storage space, the digital free-for-all and also - I'm nearly 45. I'm far too old to get a boner every time a rarity hits the stores. It would be disrespectful to Melanie C. PS Cerys Smith is a wanker.

Young Offender + Liar reviews now posted.

I went through YO before. In 1993 the O-Zone said NO had brought credibility to the footie record (a lot of competetion there) so would they ever consider doing a song for Eurovision? Bernard said No - but they did and it's Liar. Boy, it sucks like a toothless whore. There was a negative review of Rep in Select and it criticised 'the cloying POLITENESS of it all - Hague gives a little bit of room for the bass parts and then Bernard can sing etc.' Actually, reviews were quite positive, probably cos they were coming from an overall pop perspective rather than a we-want-Technique-2-with-Hooky fan perspective. Even Select said, 'It isn't a bad album, just an inert one.' In fact, the build-up was super-positive - Radio 1 saying 'Technique was good but that was for the 80s: this is the same for the 90s,' a 2-part NME article ('Republic is great') and - after release - that Paul Lester NME shite: 'Republic shows they are currently making the finest music of their lives.' Bollocks cos it wasn't current either. After Dennis' Avalanche piece, I will banish Republic from my life forever. I've spent far too much time on a bland, mediocre puddle of pooh that makes One Direction sound like the Sex Pistols.

Random Question: Is there any way for the reader to minimize the banner accross the top of the blog screen? *EDIT* Also did the blog change at some point from every *key* NO track to just every track?

Young Offender adopts not just the pianos but other electronic sounds of early 90's house/dance. But by '93 it sounded like NO were playing catch-up with this stuff rather than setting the template. Also, instead of capturing the excitement of house/rave at the time, YO manages to bland things out - so you get a commercial pop-house thing that East 17 would have been proud of instead of a bangin tune. Same could be said for Spooky - it goes for a BIG start with the drums and the "Bass Mechanic" blast and then melts into an almost ambient tune. Zzz.

As for Liar, yes even blander. In fact both of these tunes sound a bit too "Electronic" for my tastes. I always end up yawning when I listen to Electronic. I think Bernard needs some feistiness, stimulation or conflct to stop him slipping into 'easy' mode (see Bad Loo). Perhaps these tracks were so 'Bernard' that the absent other members of NO weren't keeping him on his toes.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: bland, mediocre puddle of pooh that makes One Direction sound like the Sex Pistols.

I don't always agree with your NO "scathe" MM, but...yes.

Yep, pretty much what Dennis said.Young Offender has all the great production tricks and some flashy keyboards and synths and beats and Liar has some club friendly sounds but they, much like a lot of Republic, fall short and don't astonish or leave you speechless like earlier NO stuff on P,C& L or Low Life.The Pet Shep Boys' Young Offender is the best song with that song title.What else can i say about Liar.... um..... i first heard it on Jakki Brambles Radio 1 show on that station's New Order day in April 93.Erm, or maybe it was on frickin Steve Wright's show.Whatever.

Dee Lewis is the backing singer on Liar? Hang on, didn't she do backing vocs for Style Council ? If not who am i getting mixed up with?

Debaser wrote: Random Question: Is there any way for the reader to minimize the banner accross the top of the blog screen?

It's the way the Wordpress template being used handles the images. I like it but am obviously extremely biased.

Debaser wrote: Also did the blog change at some point from every *key* NO track to just every track?

No - always intended to do all tracks, but in the sense of focussing on the key recording of that track.

Thanks for the feedback. DR

Fotzepolitic wrote: Dee Lewis is the backing singer on Liar? Hang on, didn't she do backing vocs for Style Council ? If not who am i getting mixed up with?

Not sure about Style Council...

I figured that a) she was the only credited backing singer, b) she is a backing singer, and c) Liar has female backing vox, so ergo she must be the backing singer on Liar.

Debaser wrote: I always end up yawning when I listen to Electronic.

If you mean the first Electronic album, I couldn't agree less. The first 30 seconds kick more butt than all of Republic. As for the second, that was a pile of steaming gnu poo: 3 years, Kraftwank, Bernard's talk of '47 ideas - it sounds really fucking good - Johnny's got this virtual guitar' etc, and what did we end up with? MOR, hackneyed synth, yawnsome pop pap. There may be a decent album to be culled from it and the Bsides but I can't be arsed. Twisted Tender Mess was OK but the magic had gone. BL has its down points (Dynamo is Bernard at his lyrically weakest) but enough ups to make it worthwhile: Runaway, Poisonous Intent, another one. People think I'm always slagging off NO but I ain't. I just try to keep things in perspective. In 93 I was reading stuff like 'The most important band since the 60s' and then hearing Liar - or 'home to the most exciting sound in the post punk world' / Chemical - or 'powerful, bass-driven rock' / World. I didn't fall for the hype and when they went on hold indefinitely it just felt like having their cake and eating it. FIVE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT REPUBLIC

1. Regret
2. Special
3. It came out exactly 2 years, 9 months, a few weeks and a day or something before the Spice Girls.
4. If you take the word 'Republic', mix the letters up, take some letters away, add some more letters and then mix them up again, it spells 'Spice Girls'.
5. That is the end of my 5 things I like about Republic. I hope you enjoyed them.

Excellent thought provoking review from the DR.

Electronic music was at its strongest imo between 92-96. After the rave scene artists really started pushing the boundaries on albums as well as 12". Think Aphext twin, artifiacial intelligence series of albums, then you had 2nd wave Detroit such as the mighty Underground Resistance, Carl Craig and soon to be Drexciya . Added to that the Berlin sound of basic channel.

Then you get the b side to republic (the A side is strong) sounding tired to the background of other electronic music, more of the boring house sound of that day rather than the innovative sound from elsewhere. Liar is probably my least favourite New Order track t(yes worse than RTS) followed closely by Chemical. Young Offender is just an ok tune for me.

The album needed more dance / guitar crossover and for that it needed more Hooky bass. I prefer it more now than I did at time of release, and that's probably because I no longer go to clubs and listen to less pure electronic music. It was New order reforming in 98 that made me go to gigs again and their 2001 tour took me back out of the clubs and into going to gigs again.

Dennis Remmer wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Dee Lewis is the backing singer on Liar? Hang on, didn't she do backing vocs for Style Council ? If not who am i getting mixed up with?

Not sure about Style Council...

I figured that a) she was the only credited backing singer, b) she is a backing singer, and c) Liar has female backing vox, so ergo she must be the backing singer on Liar.

Ah i wasn't questioning the fact Dee Lewis was the backing singer on Liar.Like you state, Dee Lewis is indeed the backing singer on that song.I was sure she was a backing singer for Style Council also but it turns out i was getting her mixed up with Dee C Lee who did do backing vox for Style Council (most notably on Walls Come Tumbling Down ) amongst others and later a little solo success.It was the first name "Dee" and the surname beginning with "Le" that got me mixed up.

The true joy of Republic is not its intrinsic quality, but its nostalgic and evocative qualities... Hear a track and even if you don't like it think, OMG: this takes me back - I was doing THIS thing in THAT place and felt THIS way, and boy, things really were totally and utterly fucking shit. But now, things really are total and utter fucking shit too. And since then till now, things really have been just total and utter fucking shit as well. And even before that song (which is, in itself, total and utter fucking shit) things were indeed total, utter fucking shit... I wonder what the future holds... Thanks Republic, you're AWESOME.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: The true joy of Republic is not its intrinsic quality, but its nostalgic and evocative qualities... Hear a track and even if you don't like it think, OMG: this takes me back - I was doing THIS thing in THAT place and felt THIS way, and boy, things really were totally and utterly fucking shit. But now, things really are total and utter fucking shit too. And since then till now, things really have been just total and utter fucking shit as well. And even before that song (which is, in itself, total and utter fucking shit) things were indeed total, utter fucking shit... I wonder what the future holds... Thanks Republic, you're AWESOME.

I'd never thought of it like that.

That Chemical review is actually more than kind! This is like an exorcism for me: I'm gonna go through this useless album for the last time and then forget it forever. Remember: For everyone who doesn't like Chemical, there's always someone else who doesn't like it either.

Got to admit my comments about Young Offender above may have been harsh. It's an absolute masterpiece in pop song-ery compared to Chemical. Y.O. may have been keeping up with the times rather than setting the pace, but at least it had a reasonable tune. Chemical...has nothing.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: This is like an exorcism for me: I'm gonna go through this useless album for the last time and then forget it forever.

I dunno about that. Republic gave us Regret, World, RIAD (esp. Reunited in a Day mix, albeit that version wasn't on the album) and Avalanche. Everyone Everywhere was pleasant (especially the end section) and I also like parts of Times Change, believe it or not. It wasn't all bad.

I reckon the real trudge for Dennis will be Get Ready once he gets past Crystal. The rest of the album is so boring, I don't know how Dennis is going to get through it all. Short reviews (like Chemcial) will perhaps be the answer. I would suggest that the Mission Impossible theme is more enjoyable than most of Get Ready, maybe lump it in and tack on Here To Stay (great tune) in order to show that 'era' as more than a big snoooze. Much prefer WFTSC myself... And MC obvs.

Debaser wrote: It's an absolute masterpiece in pop song-ery compared to Chemical.

Getting your head kicked in is an absolute joy compared to getting your head kicked in, sliced into six million pieces, rammed up your bottom and then set fire to by a member of One Direction.

Debaser wrote: Get Ready once he gets past Crystal. The rest of the album is so boring.

Primitive Notion... Vicious Streak... even Turn My Way. They may not be stunning but they have more guts than Republic. This really has to stop.

Chemical and Times Change reviews now posted.

...more fibre needed...

I remember laughing out loud at the rap on Times Change, much like I did when I heard Feel Every Beat for the first time (Have YOU ever been the victim in a violent fight? Phone Sumner Securities on 0161 1991) but over the years it's grown on me and I've gotten over it. Reading on here it's clear people are still VERY ANGRY about these things but, meh, nostalgia is pretty good for painting over cracks, I find.

I could be wrong but I always thought Times Change and it's references to Port-Royal Town was a metaphor for what was going down in the MCR at the time in which case wouldn't that make it the only Manchester themed song New Order did? Unless it was actually another metaphor for Factory in which case, yawn, get over yourself Sumner, nobody twisted your arm, son.

There are plenty of fine songs from their early period ,while they were in their 20's (JD-LL)and many more from their middle period(B,T,and R) ,as they were now in their 30's . And they actually have plenty more from their late period , their 40 's (GR-LS, and 7singles ) Any single period I choose I have a better, more interesting and exciting group of songs than any of their rivals , contemporaries, bands or individual's entire careers, including current bands . But they're now in their 50's and with BL and MC adding more fine songs their late,late period is also great. I expect 2 or 3 more albums of songs. And Live shows and many extras . They are the best band ever by far with more than plenty of great songs

I actually loved FEB and I'm amazed (well, I've had time to come to terms with it) it barely scraped the Top 40 - while the limp, lame shame of Getting Awank with Shit was a megashit. Disappointed was hardly bush in the envelope either. Even sychophant, no-objectivity-at-all Paul Lester commented re TC, 'When Bernard can't sing, it's great. When he can't rap, it's embarrassing. Remember FEB?' We probably did, given it was just two years before with practically bugger all inbetween. Even I don't drink that much. It's an ironic title for a copycat track on their least innovative album ever. The synth always struck me as the electro equivalent of power chords and there's a tiny bit of Hooky at the end but it's too little too late. The constant comparisons with Electronic were lost on me cos said album was approximately 545990970654 Light Decades (see what I did there?) ahead. And that yellow fever / hay is sub Dolores Cranberry. Only two more songs and then Republic is like Melanie C. Something I want to put to bed forever.

Coops wrote: Unless it was actually another metaphor for Factory in which case, yawn, get over yourself Sumner, nobody twisted your arm, son.

Round and Round was apparently about Tony and - another Monkhouse scoop - Liar definitely was. 'I can't stand the music' was reportedly cos they used to have MTV playing all day and Barney hated it (remember this was before the Spice Girls). Did anyone else notice how the Other Two left a certain Mr Wilson off their 'thank yous' on the first CD? Petty, small-minded, arrogant little wankers. The guy funded the first Joy Division album so you'd probably be cleaning the bogs in a strip club without his generosity. I know he wasn't overstruck by the Other Two And You and was banking on New Order, but let's not forget, said LP was a total and utter pile of shit and almost as bad as Reflange. Wise choice. Bernard said the 'payroll' line wasn't specifically about Factory, but I found it hard to imagine him penning such a line in 1988. He also said RIAD sounds like it's about Factory but wasn't: they all went out and got 'zonked' and then wrote this tune. Again, I can't picture 1992's NO hanging out together at all, let alone bashing out a (practically Hook-free) track afterwards, and got the impression he was talking about Technique. I had a friend at university. Really, I did. He used to change the lyrics to 'This is how it feels to be / On London and not Factory'. He wasn't my friend after that. Writing songs about the fact you write songs really is a cop-out - like 'Loved It (The Other Track)'. It's similar to '''ironically''' crap comedians who are just crap, or writing a book about being unable to write a book. Just do your job. The only decent thing about Repubelick is the track order. Imagine if it kicked off with Liar and climaxed with Chemical... One more track and then I will never bother with it again. I was always attempting to find something worthwhile but not any more... I'm sick of trying. I mean it. It's over.

@Michael You don't seem to understand that Wilson was not God. Steve and Gillian did it before 1994.

Not sure what your point is. They have two daughters so by Monty Python logic they did it twice. I'm not a huge fan of Tony Wilson. It would be unfair to Mel C. The Other Two album was ready before Republic and Tony was reportedly iffy about releasing it cos he - understandably - thought (well, knew) the NO LP would be a safer bet. Given that he'd risked his life's savings on Unknown Pleasures, let the notoriously shambolic 80's New Order do what the fuck they liked and even given Hooky carte blanche with that shitty, misogynistic, my-equally-important-bandfellows-can-fuck-off-out-of-it Pineapple Feces vid, I can understand his scepticism, and I find The Other Two's comments extremely unfair. I saw a vid where Steve actually got a whole sentence out and called Wilson a 'gobshite' - a tad ungrateful, perchance?

Release schedule was in London's, not Wilson's hands by then. Original plan was for Movin' On to be lead-up single to LP release in late 1992 (Moby mix eventually backed Selfish single ).

Yeah! Some interesting comments at http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=3362#post22639 ... Everyone in 93 was going on about how FINAL the end of Rep sounded and would Reading be the end etc. I must've been the only one to pick up on the irony of people's despairing over the end of a band who had so OBVIOUSLY run out of steam. 'OMG, I WANNA WAIT ANOTHER 4 YEARS FER ANOTHER ALBUM AS BAD AS REPUBLIC, ANOTHER HANDFUL OF TIRED, FORMULAIC GIGS AT 5650876087549739-DOLLAR YANKEE STADIUMS AFTER 4546756543480984 SUB-BLUR ACTS AND ANOTHER PRETENTIOUS, WANKY, UNWATCHABLE PAUL BORELY DOC NARRATED BY SOME AMERICAN GIRL WHO SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S GIVING HERSELF A KIT-KAT SHUFFLE... PLEASE don't bail out on me, you fuck shites.'

Special + Avalanche reviews posted.

Republic done. Took a while to think about it.

On a side note... The Light are currently downunder - catching their Substance(s) gig this Sunday night. Makes me think how Hooky's going to handle Avalanche when he gets around to touring Republic? 'Faith' repeated in a low growl? erm...

Glad that's over. Nostalgia? Ah yes. Fine memories of sitting in my bedroom with no friends at all, let alone a female one, translating Latin, jerking of to any image with a billigram of womanhood therein cos I didn't have the guts to get any proper porn and shitting my pants cos I knew I was gonna get my face shoved down the toliet at school next day (they were tough, our teachers). Avalanche is graceful, dreamy and totally pointless. Still, one word is 53 more than Gillian is usually capable of. The Light should tour Too Crazy Cowboys with Mel C.

Love Avalanche, my only complaint is it's too short. It may be mostly an "Other Two track" but I don't care, I'm sure thare are plenty of tracks that are primarily Barney tracks, but we don't complain. If there turned out to be a longer version of this (a la Elegia - although maybe not that long), it might just be enough to tempt me to buy a physically reissued Republic (although if it's gonna be a box set that costs £60 - £80 like the Led Zep album box sets...maybe not). It's the combination of cold (like the snow of an avalanche) and the warmth of the guitar (setting it off?) that makes it special. Quite often it's those ambiguous vibes that make you take notice of NO. Dancable-tracks-tinged-with-indie-misery was pretty much a genre invented by them after all.

Sooner or later someone has to use this as the bittersweet music to soundtrack the death of a movie hero; all slo-mo and tragi-heroic as he/she saves someone and loses their life in the process. Dying a beautiful, flawed death, as perhaps NO seemed to be doing at the time.

Dennis Remmer wrote: On a side note... The Light are currently downunder - catching their Substance(s) gig this Sunday night. Makes me think how Hooky's going to handle Avalanche when he gets around to touring Republic? 'Faith' repeated in a low growl? erm...

Having seen his Movement/PCL and Low Life/Brotherhood gigs, I have actually spared a some time to think about this (sad!). He's doing the Substances as one big gig, so that leaves him with Technique + ?? up next. Ok the ?? should be Republic. BUT as the quality of albums dropped after Technique, I think he should do a "best of the rest" + Technique: From Republic: Regret, World, RIAD, Avalanche. From Get Ready: Crystal, Primitive Notion, Someone Like You, Here to Stay (well HTS was from that era, and it's a close second to Crystal for me). From Sirens: Krafty, WFTSC, I Told You So, Turn.

Do the "best of the rest" tracks first , make us wait for Technique (maybe hold Regret back for the encore, especially as Hooky considers it the last proper NO song).

Also don't do any post-sirens stuff, despite previous "threats". That would be a bad idea.

As for Avalanche in particular I 'm thinking of The Beach at the Movemner/PCL gig. It was played loud but not live. It was in a gap between the end of PCL and the encore. Put it in the gap between "best of the rest" and Technique, but don't play it live. Or else do play it live but either don't sing that word, or hire a female vocalist who could sing "faith" and help out on World, Crystal & Someone Like You.

I imagine this post may attract some ire. Let's see.

Always liked Avalanche. Used to listen to it often but not so much now. I frequently commented on the old forum years ago what a great track it is but mostly received derision and negativity in return, oddly. Years ago on the old forum someone commented the mood Avalanche evoked was very similar to the music in some famous ballet or theatre play that I can no longer remember the name of and I never heard the music anyway so couldn't offer an opinion yes or no as I never tracked down the music, frustratingly.

Hooky's album-by-album approach kinda falls apart after Technique. I can't imagine him paying 'tribute' to the BBC Peel Sessions or Live in Concert (as opposed to Dead In Concert), and the endless London rehashes didn't seem to have FA to do with the actual band, Bernard excepted. Still and Substances were different cos they were actively involved: they were interviewed for Sub 88 and rerecorded trax for Sub 87. Hooky actually said London was when they lost it with all those remixes - mind you, if he felt that badly, he might've tried to block them. I guess his bank account had something to do with it. It's amazing that between their very public pubic disbanding after Reading and the reunion they fobbed us off with 6 rewank singles (Spooky, TF, 1963, BM, LWTUA, Video 586) and 4 compilations (Best Of, Rest Of, Permawank, Fart and Holes) - yet their credibility remains. Then there's Revenge, which even he isn't too fond of - and Freebass, well worth the 6-year wait. Monaco were good but can they guarantee a worldwide audience? Last time I saw the Light it was a crappy Italian seaside town but he had a full house playing JD's 'legendary two albums and more'. I couldn't help wondering if he'd've garnered the same reaction as ex-Revenge / Freebass member playing Republic and Waiting for The Sirens's Call. We'll see.

Debaser wrote: a "best of the rest" + Technique: From Republic: Regret, World, RIAD, Avalanche. From Get Ready: Crystal, Primitive Notion, Someone Like You, Here to Stay (well HTS was from that era, and it's a close second to Crystal for me). From Sirens: Krafty, WFTSC, I Told You So, Turn.

Do the "best of the rest" tracks first , make us wait for Technique (maybe hold Regret back for the encore, especially as Hooky considers it the last proper NO song).

Also don't do any post-sirens stuff, despite previous "threats". That would be a bad idea.

As for Avalanche in particular I 'm thinking of The Beach at the Movemner/PCL gig. It was played loud but not live. It was in a gap between the end of PCL and the encore. Put it in the gap between "best of the rest" and Technique, but don't play it live. Or else do play it live but either don't sing that word, or hire a female vocalist who could sing "faith" and help out on World, Crystal & Someone Like You.

This will happen.

Around Brutal I wasn't really interested. As I said before, my obsessive phase was like my mother, i.e. it ran to seed. M4P was a pleasant surprise though, and Twisted Titness started well but got a bit samey. The Other Two soppymore must be the one album from this camp I know least of all - I played it a few times and then left it in the UK, so I guess my folks will've thrown it out. Even post-Republic, there've been albums I know inside-out simply through dint of listening. I couldn't even list the tracks on Stupor Highways, let alone bring the toons to mind. I think I was more curious than excited about 'Brutal'. It was kinda cool they were returning with a one-off rather than a full-on album and tour - if I was cynical I'd say it was a cop-out, but I am known for my positivity and enthusiasm. It certainly looks forward to Get Ready rather than back to Republic, which is a good thing for me, but we'll cross that bridge etc. Good backing vocals and lots of Hooky, but some terrible lyrics (again, more GR: think Field and its curtain, or Slow Jam and its all of it). Reminds me of Hellbent, but never mind.

Brutal was ok.Or ok-ish.It never blew your socks off on first listen like an Age Of Consent or Vanishing Point did but it did offer a glimmer of optimism that more new songs and/or an album would be in the pipeline in the next year or so.I think i first heard Brutal when Mark 'n Lard premiered it on their then Radio 1 afternoon show in about February 2000.I may have remembered that wrong though, it's a long time ago.My first thoughts were fairly positive but i agree Dennis, it is a bit ploddy but depending on my mood i can take that.I like a lot if not all the lyrics and the backing vocals and the eastern ish strings.But yeah, think it only featured quietly in the background for a few seconds in the 2 guys talking outside the beach hut scene in The Beach movie.I felt fairly sure after Brutal that NO's next album would be one of the rockiest things they'd ever done (unfortunately that meant we got Rock The Shack but Crystal and Primitive Notion are great).It seemed like waiting forever between Brutal and what turned out to be Get Ready.

How on earth did you miss the 87 Australia and New Zealand tour, Dennis? Mind you i missed the comeback gig in July 1998 at Manchester Apollo. I only became aware of it a week or two later when i stumbled across the review of it in NME.Was totally gutted, compounded by the fact i had had a week's holiday from work the week of the gig and could quite easily travelled up to Manc .Nevermind as seeing them at Reading 98 more than made up for it and was one the best nights of my life.Saw them at the Xmas 98 MEN arena gig but that wasn't one of their more memorable shows but i did see Underworld perform at that event.

The mid 90s were the wilderness years, crappy Best Of and Rest Of,various remixes, some of Monaco's Music For Pleasure was ok but i've never been a big fan of Hooky's side projects.I could just about take half Electronic's Raise The Pressure (wonder if Paul Lester ever did a review of that, maybe Michael Monkhouse could let us know if so ) and half their Twisted Tenderness and get one half decent album i guess.Can't even remember what songs are on Twisted Tenderness, haven't listened to it for years , only vaguely remember the chorus for the title track.

I only remember The Other Two's Superhighways album standoutsbeing You Can Fly and the title track which is possibly the finest song they did apart from Selfish off the first album.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I could just about take half Electronic's Raise The Pressure (wonder if Paul Lester ever did a review of that, maybe Michael Monkhouse could let us know if so )

Do the words 'red flag, bull' mean anything to you? The RTP reviews were negative, and rightly so. The only positivish one was http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/melodymaker6july1996.jpg. I thought it was crap. Loved this one: http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/nme6july1996.jpg.

Crikey - got to love Sumner's jacket in the first article. He looks like he left the ironing board in it when he put it on.

Michael - you may want to edit your post to remove the full stops from the end of the links. I keep getting the bloody 'FORBIDDEN!!!!' message when I click the hyperlinks. Getting rid of the '.' corrects things.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I could just about take half Electronic's Raise The Pressure (wonder if Paul Lester ever did a review of that, maybe Michael Monkhouse could let us know if so )

Do the words 'red flag, bull' mean anything to you? The RTP reviews were negative, and rightly so. The only positivish one was http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/melodymaker6july1996.jpg. I thought it was crap. Loved this one: http://www.feeleverybeat.co.uk/albums/nme6july1996.jpg.

That review by Dave Simpson is the most positive review of Raise The Pressure I've ever seen. Almost makes me want to dig the album out and reevaluate it. He cirtainly has a point in there being some good melodies and even good songs buried under the layers of production. Doesn't Dave Simpson post on here from time to time? Is it the same Dave Simpson who writes for The Guardian?

The other link led me to reading again Bernard's Raise The Pressure sleeve note rant. A good rant on the state of the world and society I always thought ,

I tried to edit my earlier comment today to fix the mistake of not putting a space between two words but when I tried to submit the corrected post I got a banner come up saying my post had been detected as spam and wouldn't be posted. Never had before but if it's something Spotnick has done to stop spammers well done Spotnick.Great work mate.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Raise The Pressure sleeve note rant.

Oh that was horrible. 'Wars is bad. Wars is when people do wars. Is wrong. If I am Prime Minister I stop wars but politcals man has interest. If I am Prime Minister no one can be interest, only flowers and sewing and Spice Girl. Wars SUCKS!'

The worst thing about Raise The Pressue has to be the sleeve. I mean, who would sign off on that artwork?

For a person who was in a band synonymous with quality artwork, it seems odd for that same person to agree something quite as bad as the cover to RTP. It’s almost as if he wanted to step as far away from the New Order ideology as possible:

‘An orange, badly-drawn child, in the buff, picking flowers? That looks terrible... yeah, that’ll do!’

Shit album, shit sleeve. Shit. I can't remember but I think I once read Neil Tennant liked the sleeve and then decided he didn't like it. Mind you, he worked with Patsy Kensit and remained homosexual, so what does he know? Shit.

I remember liking it at the time, but I haven't listed to it all the way through in years. Can't remember most of the tracks on it.

Think I played it for the first week or two when I first got it and then only heard tracks from it again when they were released as singles (For You, Second Nature). Compare this with the first album, which I played half to death.

Speaking of the first album, although I still really like it, it does sound rather dated these days. One too many 'orchestra hits' probably. I think I like it mainly for the nostalgia factor. And you know what they say about nostalgia; it ain't what it used to be...

Fotzepolitic wrote: How on earth did you miss the 87 Australia and New Zealand tour, Dennis?

That's an excellent question. I was probably lost in the social blur of 1st year Uni campus life, and I think my brain was wired for clubs more so than live gigs at the time.

I'd sit my 18y.o self down now and have a stern talk about praxis and moment. He'd ignore me of course.

Raise the Pressure had fine songs, better than Billy Joel's and David Bowie's pressure songs, but not as good as the 'under the pressure' song by war on drugs. The cold hard facts are that new order is better than all other bands, and hooky and bernard created more great songs elsewhere.

Brutal + Crystal reviews now up.

...Get Ready, and have come to the conclusion that – a couple of shit tracks aside – it is by & large a really good album

Get Ready certainly doesn't have anything as embarrasingly bad on it as say, Chemical on Republic. So that's a positive. The "real" Killers had a song on their first album that went "It's indie rock n roll for me". Prior to then, I think Indie was just called Indie, but Get Ready could indeed be called "Indie Rock n Roll" with it's tougher rock sound that wasn't quite mainstream.

The sonic palette for Crystal is completely different to Republic

And a change is as good as a rest as they say (mind you NO had had quite a rest by then). Nothing wrong with a new pallette, but to use another phrase coined within a year or so of Get Ready, it was a bit "Landfill Indie".

Of course, if the songs had all been of the quality of Crystal it would have been an absolute triumph. Instead the album is...alright, not bad, reasonably solid. I wouldn't be embarrassed to be caught listening to any particular track. But when I get to the end of it, I find myself going; hmm after Crystal what really stood out for me? What were the other highlights? It all kinda rolls into one big lump, and I pretty much forget it as soon as it's over. As mentioned previously, I wish you luck reviewing the rest of it Dennis. In a way Republic might be more fun to review precisely because it has some good songs and some really poor ones. But this album is sort of a consistent 6.5 out of ten from track 2 until the end.

Sumner’s intentional bum-note that ends the ‘You shock me to the core‘ line

It never occurred to me that Bernard's bum notes were intentional! The album version of Crystal is ace though. Was then; is now. The vocal melody is ace, the guitars are ace, the Hooky bass is ace, the drum sound is ace, the looped piano break is ace. Yeah, it's good this one. I agree that Coombs' mix is the best of the remixes. It goes more danceable yet manages to celebrate some of the best bits of the original, rather than just chuck everything out bar the vocals.

When i think of Crystal the first thing that always springs to mind is the drum and bass drum sound they, or Steve Osbourne (or a combined effort), so brilliantly nailed on it.A real energy and attitude to that sound.So many great sounds they nailed on it basically, that drum sound, the synths and keyboards, Hooky's bass (one of his all time best) , that magical piano break.... I'm maybe not so keen on the lyrics these days as once was but the sound of the music is incredible.Also, that "locust-like spray of sound that backs the 'I don't know what to say' line" you mention Dennis - it always reminds me of the similar spray/hissing sound that heralds intro to The Eternal by JD.Sometimes used to think it was almost like they were making a little nod to their former JD incarnation with that.

First time i heard Crystal was when i caught the video on MTV a few weeks before the song's release.I was completely and utterly overjoyed.We couldn't have ever wished for a better comeback single.

The Lee Coombs remix was the dog's bollocks.Brought out so many of the great elements of the song and what Coombs added was equally magnificent.Thing is it was so good i tended to never bother listening much to the other mixes after an initial first play.Will have to dig 'em out sometime and see what i make of them now.

Possibly my favourite live version of Crystal is the one on the Finsbury park DVD.Cracking stuff.

As for Get Ready as a whole, i remember i'd heard none of it, bar Crystal, til i bought the CD on release day in August 2001.I didn't even have a PC then let alone know where to hunt down illegal downloads pre-release.At the end of the first listen i thought, jeez is that it? Think i'll go and do something more interesting instead.Apart form Crystal it just washed over me without making much of an impact I thought songs like Someone Like You and Close Range were fricking dire on first listen.But i took to songs like Turn My Way (seemingly in a minority on that one) and Vicious Streak quickly on second listen.It was a rockier New Order, but i think i'd been expecting that after Brutal 18 months before.

By a bizarre coincidence, the 'proper' Crystal was the last one I heard. I first bought what would've been the import CD single if I'd been in the UK and it hasd everything but. https://www.discogs.com/it/New-Order-Crystal/release/85535 The radio edit was great - mainly cos it had, in the words of a reviewer, 'a small army of Peter Hooks' - but as with EGG, TF etc, I preferred the full length. The mixes were all up to standard but it got very repetitive as they bunched together edit / full length / dub so I'd usually skip the first and last. Again with London, I did wonder if the band were actively involved, and THAT bass was lost in the dance euphoria, but it was Still Light Decades away from Rest Of.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I first bought what would've been the import CD single if I'd been in the UK and it hasd everything but. https://www.discogs.com/it/New-Order-Crystal/release/85535

Hmm. I bought the UK CD1 & CD2, (that "20 minute" rule was annoying, wasn't it) and a little later on I stumbled on the 12" of the Creamer & K mixes for a pound or something, so I "took pity" on it and bought that too.

Looking at the listing for that US CD single (and other listings) I see the short (3.22) version of Creamer & K's remix listed as "John Creamer & Stephane K Main Remix". Is it safe to assume that this is actually the intro remix which has been mis-labelled, and only labelled correctly on my 12"?

Also what's with these Acid Planet remixes? So many remixers I've never heard of, which is unusual for me. I've listened to track 1 (so so). Are they all shite?

Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.

On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.

I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.

So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.

I am a fan of GR. for me it came at a time when I was not just listening to electronic music and started to listen to guitar stuff again and discovering bands and got me out the clubs and back going to gigs again. I really enjoyed the NO gigs around this time. It’s a good solid album and for me along with Crystal I also love Turn my Way, Primitive Motion, close range, and Run Wild. No bad tracks apart from RTS. Putting another big tune like HEre to Stay at the beginning of the b side to match Crystal would have improved the album. My musical clock seems to glide in time with NO so a more guitar orientated album was what I wanted from NO at the time. I didn’t think they could produce another great mainly electronic album at the time. MC delivered a fine electronic influenced album once again at the right time when my thoughts were I didn’t think NO could produce a great guitar influenced album, if that makes sense

Fotzepolitic wrote: Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.

On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.

I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.

So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.

That mix of Crystal on the Here to Stay 12" is the original full version. More Hooky and better for it.

Debaser wrote: So many remixers I've never heard of, which is unusual for me.

Yeah! Reading these reviews I was struck by what a dip in interest I had from one album to the next. I could recite the entire discography up to Rest Of and saddest of all I did sometimes. The Spice Girls had great songs but didn't write them all alone. If you look at the credits to each Spice track - you need a fucking hobby. BCD... Hmm. Bernard's strong point is the personal (TLU, Temptation, R and R etc) - turn his attention to, like, problems and, y'know, society and stuff and I dunno, maybe we should all be nise to eech udder, right? Some awful lyrics in this period - BCD, Slow Jam, PITL - but far better music than most of Republic. That's probably more to do with Arthur Baker, but at least it was good to get an original B-side. Do we really need BLT vid, BLT 7". BDT 7", BLT 12", BDT 12"? This has urged me to relisten to GR and boy, is it hit 'n' miss - from the awesome (PN) through the mediocre (60 mph) to the truly shite (RTS, which even superegotistical Hooky doesn't like). One thing at a time though.

Andy wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.

On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.

I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.

So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.

That mix of Crystal on the Here to Stay 12" is the original full version. More Hooky and better for it.

Really? I always assumed that it was the album version. Can anyone direct me to somewhere I can hear this? Ta.

hts 12" promo

I didn't remember that. The only alternate Crystal mix i know, is on the premix album.

I think the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" is exactly the same length as the album version but there are a few differences i.e as Andy said ,more Hooky.But i'm sure negative1 will scold me now for not checking his definitive list for confirmation.

That link doesn’t work for me; just gives a link to the discography main page.

Here’s an extract:

12": UK 2002 (London Records NUOX11) 12": UK 2002 (777 Productions) [double sided acetate] 5:00 Here to Stay (full length vocal) 6:49 Crystal * 8:00 Here to Stay (felix da housecat - the extended glitz mix) 8:01 Here to Stay (the scumfrog dub mix) +

* Actually an extended version running over 7 minutes. Possibly same as on the Get Ready CDR.

Also, looking at Discogs, someone has added the following comment - “Slightly longer version than the album cut of "Crystal" on this 12" with an extended instrumental break, unfortunately the pressing of this 12" is really bad, cut much too loud and therefore distorted.”

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Here-To-Stay/release/47332

So, it looks like there may be an extended version of the album mix on the standard 12”, not just the promo. Hopefully somebody has it and can let me have a listen. Distortion and all... 😀

perspexorange wrote:

Andy wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: Have dug out the mixes of Crystal i have.I have the standard UK CD1 and CD2.Can't remember the last time i listened to these, maybe about 2002.. The Digweed and Muir Bedrock mix "edit" on CD1 is 10 minutes long but i turned it off before 5 minutes.Not into it but it did remind that i was once in a club in Tel Aviv when i was on holiday there in 2007 and John Digweed was djing.I went up to the booth and shouted up to him "John!" assuming he would hear my English accent and acknowledge me but he just gave me a whatever look and a barely detectable shrug.Cunt. But i did probably look like a mentalist to be fair.I got a similar response from Dave Clarke when i tried to ask him to put Kraftwerk's 'Numbers' on in a club in Liverpool (not Cream though, i seem to recall.Actually it might even have been Back To Basics in Leeds come to think of it) sometime in the late 90s.I think i concluded after the Digweed incident that trying to say hello or request tracks from DJs was a fruitless pursuit and i should retire to the dancefloor or bar.Lesson learnt.

On to The Creamer And Steph K remix on CD2 now (skipped the unbeatably brilliant Coombs mix as i know what that one goes like and am familiar with it).Yeah i prefer this mix from the Digweed and Muir one, some nice sounds on this one.

I have the 12" of Here To Stay and on which is the album version of Crystal but i seem to recall it's even longer than the album mix? Maybe too unnecessarily long however.

So in summary- the Coombs mix still tops the lot of 'em.

That mix of Crystal on the Here to Stay 12" is the original full version. More Hooky and better for it.

Really? I always assumed that it was the album version. Can anyone direct me to somewhere I can hear this? Ta.

Got rid of all my vinyl but had transferred all exclusive tracks to CD-R. Description is "Original Mix" which is how it was listed on the 12" label. Running time (at least on my disc) is 7:08.

I'm not going to go through inch by inch and compare this with the LP mix but the easiest comparison is with the Substance vs. original 12" of The Perfect Kiss: More stuff at the end. Crystal was never a favourite so my ears aren't really going to be tuned to notice minor mix variations throughout the track. I'm sure someone will find something exciting about it...

I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.

I was timing it on the stopwatch on my phone though so not entirely accurate but i'd say about 7.08 yeah.Though the tracklistings on the sleeve of the Here To Stay 12" states Crystal 6.49 but i'd say that's an error.The album version is 6.51 according to my CD copy of Get Ready when i put it in iTunes.

The difference i can possibly tell is there's , as i said, more Hooky in the last 3rd of the track on the Here To Stay vinyl.

I do have a vinyl to digital gadget but i haven't used it for a few years and would have to work out again how to use it if i was to transfer the vinyl to digital of the version of Crystal on HTS 12" then upload it somewhere.I don't think it's a great pressing to be honest and the vinyl to digital kit i have was from the cheaper end of that market.I'm sure there's a digital version of it already on the internet somewhere already, there has to be.

Fotzepolitic wrote: I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.

The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at: http://www.allformusic.fr/new-order/get-ready-premix-mastered http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.be/2009/12/got-ready-new-order-get-ready-mastered.html

Thanks both for checking this out.

Looking at the images on the Discogs page (labels, back sleeve), there doesn’t appear to be any note that this is a different version. Sounds like it was possibly mispressed, with the wrong track being picked up from the master tape. Much like the ‘original version’ of Temptation on the TBTHOG CD.

Have had a bit of a hunt online, but no luck, sadly.

Ben wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.

The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at: http://www.allformusic.fr/new-order/get-ready-premix-mastered http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.be/2009/12/got-ready-new-order-get-ready-mastered.html

I really like the Pre-Mix + Companion.

There are some really interesting variations. SLY is excellent. That Brutal Instrumental Demo on the Companion is great, plus that very different demo of 60MPH is really good.

There’s probably a few too many mixes of Brutal on there though. 7! Crikey! [:eek]

As far as crystal goes, here is a comparison of the 12 inch mix on the top, and the album version.

Both are very similar until about the 5 minute mark, and the they diverge from there.

So, yeah there are some differences. As far as sound quality goes, the 12 inch mix isn't too bad, but obviously not as clear as the album version, the dynamics are different too.

later -1

perspexorange wrote:

Ben wrote:

Fotzepolitic wrote: I have just given a spin the version of Crystal on the Here To Stay 12" and it does clock in at around 7.08 as Andy says.

The premix version of Crystal, with more Hooky in the bridge, clocks at 7:23. Seems to be yet another version.

More about this premix at: http://www.allformusic.fr/new-order/get-ready-premix-mastered http://thepowerofindependenttrucking.blogspot.be/2009/12/got-ready-new-order-get-ready-mastered.html

I really like the Pre-Mix + Companion.

There are some really interesting variations. SLY is excellent. That Brutal Instrumental Demo on the Companion is great, plus that very different demo of 60MPH is really good.

There’s probably a few too many mixes of Brutal on there though. 7! Crikey! [:eek]

Never heard about the companion. Will have to find it...

The pre-mix is indeed very interesting. I replaced Crystal by the Hooky-enriched premix version in my Get Ready iTunes playlist, as well as SLY which is slightly different (with one different chorus if I remember well) and, indeed, better to my ears . If my memory is right, Close Range premix is very different from the final version (which I prefer).

There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRONIC-The-12-inch-B-Sides-Collection-2-cd-29-Tracks-New-Order-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks. No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls). There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so\_8xLDkQY And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRONIC-The-12-inch-B-Sides-Collection-2-cd-29-Tracks-New-Order-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks. No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls). There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so\_8xLDkQY And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.

I do really like 'Second To None'. 'All That I Need' was pretty good too.

Both those premix versions are excellent. I especially like the 'Someone Like You' mix. That track is bloody great anyway.

As regards the DJ mixes of 'Crystal', I have a couple of the Cybersecrecy mixes (Indestructible & Shatterproof Mixes), a couple of the Corvin Dalek mixes (Siliconsex & Donner & Summer Remixes) and the Original Demo on the Mark Reeder 'Collaborator' LP. I think there were some Flatner & Ingram mixes too but I've never heard them.

Music-wise, the mixes aren't really my cup of tea. However, it's really nice to hear the additional lyrics that are included in some of them:

'The close that I get to you, The more you run away from me. Just tell what I've got to do, You don't have to be afraid of me. I want your love, I need your love. I want the things that others have. Whenever you're here with me, That's where I want to be.'

For anyone that didn't know, prior to New Order recording Crystal, Sumner's vocals were given to various DJs, via Mark Reeder, with the idea that they would make tracks using the vocals supplied. Pete Tong heard heard one of the mixes created and said that it was the best New Order track he'd heard since Blue Monday, so NO decided to record a version themselves. They presumably added the chorus (I don't know what to say etc.), as that doesn't seem to appear in any of the mixes. The mixes created by the DJs were shelved until after the band's version had been released (which makes sense). I think that some of them have never seen the light of day.

Here's the Cybersecrecy Shatterproof Mix with the extra lyrics if anyone is interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLkmtU6t1OU

I think some of them might have been sung by Dawn Zee in NO's version, but it's nice to hear Sumner sing them.

Seen as if some of the remixes used these lyrics and some didn't, it makes you wonder if there were any other lyrics not used.

Behind Closed Doors + 60 Miles An Hour reviews now posted.

Thanks everyone for your ongoing feedback, opinions, and occasional diatribe... much appreciated. DR

60 mph is my least favourite on the first half of GR - really MOR and more Wings than Beatles. The remix is pointless filler à la London too.

Behind Closed Doors is an odd one. An unusual vocal style from Bernard and it doesn’t sound anything like the stuff in Get Ready. Quite like it in places but not something I listen to often.

Always found Bernard’s vocal for 60MPH one of the most energetic and enthusiastic ones he’s ever done and I like the lyrics especially the bit about inviting the devil round for tea. Great Hooky bass and instrumental break is superb.It was the first track title i learnt of in the months up to the release of Get Ready. I like the video, goofy and fun.

In fact that remix sounded like Rupert's Frog Chorus. The SLU take was decent but as always, mixes without the vocal were more DJ self-indulgence than NO. PS Ever wondered what Stephen Morris was doing in that long break? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_1mQ\_B3Q65c

Behind Closed Doors is definitely one of my favourite songs of the Get Ready sessions (except the "listen to the Corrs" bit), and a great B-side to a fabulous single.

60mph on the contrary is one of the Get Ready songs I like the least, although it’s not as bad as Slow Jam or Rock the Shack or Player in the League. The music may be good, but the to my ears cheesy lyrics always prevented me from paying much attention to it. Seriously, “we’re driving 60mph!”, sung by Barney as if it were some kind of performance… It’s just a very average speed, isn’t it?

Revisiting Let's Go, I was intrigued how it was included on the US Best Of, like Hellbent on Scrotal. I'd guess that in both cases the song was used not because it was indeed worthy, but simply cos it was the closest London could get to a newbie at the time. It's similar to Greatest Hits packages containing an unreleased track which by definition can't be a hit (at least not yet). Let's Go (Waiting For So Long) is a gem. 'Republic has great lyrics, shit music; Get Ready, the opposite.' Disgust.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: There was that Dalek shenanigans and the 'Crystal' line in the Electronic B-side 'Radiation'. What a hotbed of ideas they are... How LEGIT is this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ELECTRONIC-The-12-inch-B-Sides-Collection-2-cd-29-Tracks-New-Order-Smiths-/253210667585 ? Slightly off-topic but the Lec's 'Second to None' and 'All that I Need' are better than a lot of LP tracks. No one listens to the Corrs. You just watch them. (People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it wasn't the same... DISGUSTING! A grown man criticising the Spice Girls). There was a good premix of Someone Like You too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5so\_8xLDkQY And Close Range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtreehmbi2U I never liked Close Range cos of the namby pamby lyrics but the DVD live version is better - backing vocals and a longer introduction.

I think Close Range is probably one of their best songs. All the versions are good (Dream On/ Live/ In Session), but the Get Ready one is actually my favorite.

The Hooky bass outro is pure class.

The real surprise for me listening to GR recently was Turn My Way. I don't like anything about it, from the Billy Corgan collaboration to the watery nu-metal guitar production. And the lyrics. Jesus :-) I used to skip it every time back in the day.

But reading all the blog entries from Dennis (thanks Dennis) made me have another listen and I found the non-Corgan demo online, inexplicably called Shipwreck of a Broken Man (more like a traditional New Order nothing to do with the song title and all the better for it).

I think it is brilliant. Stripped back to the bare Joy Division essentials and one of Barney's better vocals. I feel cheated not having tried this version before and missing out on this for the last 16 years! It's like finding a brand new track to me.

Why they felt the need to include Billy Corgan I don't know other than for commercial reasons. Which is not something I would never have accused New Order of previously.

After this success, I repeated the exercise by finding the non-Ana Matronic Jetstream. Unfortunately, that is still literally a plane crash :-)

Blue 5 wrote: Jetstream. Unfortunately, that is still literally a plane crash :-)

Literally? Close Range is like my dick during Spice Girls videos. It grows on me. My dad has a penis growing out of his head, but he keeps it under his hat. Get Ready is sooooo hit and miss... But has enough HITS to earn relistens, unlike Repubelick. Crystral, PN, TMW...

I’ve always wondered if the Corgan collaboration came about when the band realised that Gillian would be unlikely to go on tour (presumably during the recording of the LP; apparently she was absent during much of the recording sessions).

When they approached him to cover for Gillian for a few gigs, maybe a collaboration was discussed. This might explain why there is a fairly complete version without Corgan present (Shipwreck Of A Broken Man); his contribution was, presumably, added very late on.

As to why they used Corgan - they probably selected him due to them knowing him well from the early days (he was a big NO fan before he started the Smashing Pumpkins and used to follow them around on tour). The fact that the Pumpkins has split up at the time, that he was a friend and, lastly, that he was a fan and probably knew how to play most songs, meant he was a natural choice to gig with the band. I think that was probably the impetus for touring with him, rather than specifically commercial reasons. I guess a collaboration seemed reasonable, considering they were spending time with him and would also have given him a little more to do on stage.

It’s funny, I saw him perform with the band at the Olympia in 2001. I remember him singing Turn My Way and playing guitar, but I have no recollection as to whether he sang backing vocals for any other tracks. I also can’t recall who played keyboards at the gig. I’m guessing Phil, but I have no memory of it. Too many pre-gig beers, I guess.

I hardly know Sabotage - it ain't on the LP or my 60 mph CD single. Better than the average B-side, not as good as the average LP track, but average. Boy, did Bernard have some shite lyrics in this period - Crock the shit, Pisser in the League, even Primitive Notion which is one of the time's strongest songs musically.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I hardly know Sabotage - it ain't on the LP or my 60 mph CD single. Better than the average B-side, not as good as the average LP track, but average. Boy, did Bernard have some shite lyrics in this period - Crock the shit, Pisser in the League, even Primitive Notion which is one of the time's strongest songs musically.

Which 60MPH single have you got then? It’s on the UK CD1 . UK CD2 doesn’t have it though so maybe that’s what you’ve got. It’s also on the 60MPH DVD single . They released a few DVD singles around the time of Get Ready. Sabotage is alright , a decent b side. I rate it above Behind Closed Doors .

It's got 60 Miles An Hour (Radio Edit), 60 Miles An Hour (Supermen Lovers Remix), Someone Like You (Fuck De Void). Can't find it on line - maybe a Euro-only version...? ActuallY: https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-60-Miles-An-Hour/release/99615

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Can't find it on line - maybe a Euro-only version...?

Just found myself looking through the Discogs release page for 60MPH. Stumbled on the Hong Kong (!) release, then a uk promo CDr and then a 2x12" of Someone Like You. I realised I have somehow gone through life without hearing the Gabriel & Dresden mixes of SLY. I guess I've missed out on the Futureshock strip down mix too.

So one of G&D's mixes is on youtube (below), but the "Gabriel + Dresden Voco-tech Dub" is nowhere to be found. Is this the mix that would have changed my life?

Ah, heres the Futureshock strip down mix.

Debaser wrote: Is this the mix that would have changed my life?

It's more fun tracking down mixes than listening to them. Anyone remember the Advent's EGG? Fairly awesome.

Yeah i recall getting my hands on the CD of those Advent mixes of EGG took forever.Sent off for the CD somewhere and waited ages for it to drop through the letterbox.Lived at my mum's at the time and got home from work one day and a courier card was on the doormat saying they had tried to deliver something.I thought it had to be the Advent CD and drove 12 miles to the depot to pick it up only to find it was a parcel for my mum.

Managed to grab the 2 x 12" (or 3 x 12" really as the release with the red cover has 2 x 12" )Someone Like You mixes in late 2001 when they were released.Have all but 2 of the (6) mixes digitally also.I don't appear to have the Gabriel & Dresden Voco-Tech Dub and the Futureshock Strip Down mix on anything other than the 12" .Can do a vinyl rip and Mediafire share of the G&B Voco-Tech Dub if yer interested, send PM.The Voco-Tech Dub is kind of slower than their 911 Vocal Mix.It's pretty good, won't change yer life but worth a listen.Nice chunky beat and a vocodered voice repeating "Someone-one-one-one-one..." etc over and over.

Sabotage + Turn My Way reviews posted.

Yes DR you’re right about GR polarising opinion I love turn my way! One of my favourites on GR. Billy Corgan is not required on the record though and would be even better with a Zbernatd only vocal. 4 stars for me.

GR is an album you love or hate. I like it. Turd my Way is a great song if you are an undergraduate virgin whose sole company is 317 Pernods, a second-hand Razzle Readers' Wives and an Australia-sized crush on a fellow '''''student''''' who wouldn't be seen comatose in the same hemisphere as you if her parents' lives were at stake, I mean HELLO? How the fuck could you ever even in your wildest dreams have imagined the tiniest, vaguest, minimalest possible blip of a chance woman like her would even consider thinking about ruminating over wasting a billisecond of her valuable time with a guy like you, you sad lonely ugly useless alcoholic unpopular fashion-unconscious penniless humourless friendless griping whining whingeing mess? The rest of the time it's pretty cringeworthy and more Phil Collins than Sid Vicious. Were the Pumpkins so influenced by New Order? I never really 'got' the idea of NO as this massively influential band everyone wanted to sound like (U2 being a perfect example). Some time ago there was a thread where Robert Smith said New Order owed The Cure more than the other way round and forum users were jolly upset. That one always creases me up. What do you expect Bobbie to say? 'Boy, do we SUCK! We really are total and utter fucking shit, not like New Order, who are just like totally awesome dude. My band is a puddle of pooh and piss and pus so do yourselves a favour and listen to New Order instead. We are shite!'

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Were the Pumpkins so influenced by New Order? I never really 'got' the idea of NO as this massively influential band everyone wanted to sound like (U2 being a perfect example).

I think JD rather than NO. I recall an interview where Corgan said one of the first bands he was in was basically a JD cover band. It was how he learned to to be in a band. When Corgan toured with NO in 2001 he talked about feeling the old JD energy from the three remaining members when they played a couple of JD songs on that tour.

Speaking of U2... and JD. That bit in Bad where Bono sings "Isolation" may have been inspired by...y'know. But perhaps I'm not saying anything new here.

It's always escaped me. Still... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew4wrtl01PA

Yeah the old "New Order so influential" thing..... hard now to pinpoint exactly when all that started.Probably started around the late 90s and gathered steam when the likes of NME and Q started giving them lifetime achievement acknowledgement awards .Certainly back in the 80s they would receive a negative and even mocking review as often as a positive one and were a long way off being revered and respected as they are now.

I never fully signed up for the opinion of "Joy Division would have been massive if Curtis hadn't topped himself" The music is great but it's too brutal for the masses.The masses don't buy brutal music.You could say U2 took the opportunity and took the idea of Joy Division and created a softer, more palatable version that they knew the masses would lap up.

Joy Division are regarded now as influential but that didn't gather pace until the late 90s/early 2000s onwards.People forget that by 1984 the only people that still gave a fuck about Joy Division were the long green raincoat brigade.

Fotzepolitic wrote: Yeah the old "New Order so influential" thing..... hard now to pinpoint exactly when all that started.

There's an unwritten rule that the further New Order get from their like, totally, y'know rad attitude and shit, the more they're praised for it. In 1993 they were being hailed as 'the most important band since the Beatles or the Stones' (remember this was before Spice) and NME was weak at the knees over the fact they were 'the only band who still acts with any idiosyncrasy - like when they played Shellshock they did the dub and people in the audience were laughing.' Strange cos in 1993 they were acting just like any other band - countless interviews for every major publication, three docs, slick TOTP appearances... I almost laughed when Radio Times commented on the O-Zone RIAD interview: 'Cult band New Order emerge from obscurity and give a rare interview.'
I think their influence was more a matter of stance: telling interviewers to fuck off, playing live, the JD / Factory / Hassie cult, Wilson's charisma, Dry Bar, the one-off collaborations with new bands, even the enigmatic artwork and song titles... Most of which they haven't actually exhibited since 87ish. Musically I've bever been convinced. Think how many 60s bands imitated the Beatles or how many punk outfits the Pistols kickstarted almost overnight. Did every 80s band really want to sound like New Order?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: an Australia-sized crush

So that's a thing?

Anyway normal service has been resumed. Been on an Australia-sized holiday.

Technical term. Vicious Streak and Primitive Notion are real highlights of the album and in fact the period. They show what a strong, tight unit the band can be when they can be arsed, instead of dicking about collecting royalties checks or extending one idea over 56787898546 hours. The other day I was playing GR and my girlfriend said Crock of Shack was a great track: 'good to hear them rocking out instead of the usual half-interested stuff.' She is still my girlfriend. To be fair, her English isn't fluent so she was just going on the sound. Maybe with a stronger lyric...

NO have two great songs about dwellings- RTS and Dracula's Castle - drac and shack. I would be proud to have both played at my funeral. Here is a well planned 2 1/2 - 3 hour funeral service Wagner Rheingold Atmosphere Vicious streak Guilt is a ... The Lord's Prayer Transmission California Grass Hellbent 6 from technique 12 more sirens Lord's Prayer repeat , 6 from republic, All day long True Faith 8 from get ready, silent night.

Other than that

What if Gillian was a spice girl, and what would her name be ? Also, what if New Order gets some mellotrons and practice vocal harmonies and write some cool moody blues type songs ?

And lastly , will the next 3 albums have 9,10, or 11 songs each , and will the lost republics ever be found? Can 6 Ken dolls ( ian , hooky, bernard ,steven phil and tom) and a Barbie doll as gilliian successfully recreate wonderfully various episodes of joy division / new order / new new order life? ? Yes, yes, and yes. They have an aspect of looking clever, a bit bored, but creative, too.And laughing in the face of fear or destiny. And being nice to action figures of bands like motorhead or ac/dc or soft cell, but inside wondering whether they , at 14", , should kick the little 6" punks off the shelf. And there are thousands of wigs and clothing ensembles so as to make them extra cool. All is well with New Order, assuming they release on CD all songs played live the last few years, the live Manchester festival from July stuff, and then maybe they should start preparing for the next albums ,and remember to write 7 extra and great songs (like lost sirens) and remember to play about 40-50 more old songs live and record them

Old Spice. Someone is gonna take you up on this one day.

Vicious Streak + Primitive Notion reviews posted.

Stats for 2017 = 60,000 views of the blog. 2016 = 40,000. You're all welcome for beers, 7pm sharp.

Congrats, Dennis. That's some serious stats there.

It's heartening to see that the band are still rightfully popular.

Mel C's FB page has 12654 'likes'. That's more than mine. I know I've said this before, but PN would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if the lyrics weren't so poor.

Yep, like many others have said , Primitive Notion just fails to achieve greatness because of a few dodgy lyrics in the verses which was disappointing as Barney's lyrics for the chorus are great.Can't fault the music.

Vicious Streak has some truly lovely moments, one of the strongest songs on an album that, bar a few good songs, after i first listened to left me thinking meh, what's for tea?

Who hasn't taken their significant other , after a bit of debauchery, embarrassment ,and shame, to the local zoo and had that forlorn look of despair when the zoo staff says 'no way jose'. ?Bernard is always brilliant , as are they all. Get Ready 2 will blow our minds Get Ready ,Again Is already off the charts , and then The Final Sirens goes pentagalactic

Slow Jam + Rock The Shack reviews posted.

Bring the noise...

I like Slow Jam. I like the guitar on it, Hooky’s bass, Steve’s drums, and actually like Bernard’s lyrics.Can’t be arsed to talk about Rock The Shack except to say the Lamacq session version is better.

Two of their very worst. RTS is pretty dreadful but, I have to say, I certainly prefer it to Slow Jam, which just plods along and has that 'arithmetic' line in it. Very few redeeming features to that track, IMO.

Great reviews again that I agree with except RTS should have got one star!

I like Slow jam and always let it play when I listen to the album.

I’ve said many times GR is improved immensely if you replace RTS with one of the b sides from that time or HTS

Quite bollocks. More quite bollocks.

As usual I will have to agree with Bernard. He makes arithmetic more fun simply by singing about it ,and when he includes birds ,skies,and beer I'm all in. Hey , calculus, cosmology ( not cosmetology) and astrophysics are more popular thanks to NO. And politics needs growling raunchy butch slapping monster jams,instead of hairy sissy little metal prancing gigolos emoting like goats Who in their right miind could possibly prefer noise by bc/dc, oxxy, metaldearh Julus prick ,or pissy bohunk. Me ,i like my hard noise by New Order. Just 2 more awesome songs by the fab 4, now fab 5

Someone Like You + Close Range reviews now posted.

...including a digression on the idea of a Substance II.

Someone Like You is a bit meh for me.It's not bad but it's not great either.Some likeable parts but not a life changing New Order song.And i always heard "we're children on holiday, here comes a cloud".Same with Close Range though i've often thought there's some great melodies & ideas not completely realised on that track.

Substance 2 wouldn't work IMHO.

Two more phenomenal songs, add to Crystal, PN, and VS, and SJ . SLY does reverberate, right into another universe and back. CR takes a journey to the past , and Hooky makes it beyond beautiful at the end, it could go on forever, a stellar ending . So, they just cranked out at least 5 phenomenal songs per album from brotherhood on , at least 3 per before , and several singles beyond belief during their sleep ,and added 5 or 6 more great songs per album. Unprecedented, never to be equaled . . Other bands simply haven't got what NO has . Plus ,some of the revenge and Monaco songs are excellent , and the 3 electronics and BL are treasures . There are popular stars out there who never created a song half as good as any from get ready, and they know who they are

Well, if keepitcoming feels Someone Like You is phenomenal who are we to argue. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder they say.

Though I was slightly startled to realise the last New Order “b side” was Such A Good Thing way back in 2002.

Yeah. The lack of post GR b-sides is a bit odd. Especially when you consider the wealth of unused material (at least by NO standards) the band had around the time of WFTSC.

Recoil, Shake It Up and California Grass, although not my favourite tracks on Lost Sirens, would have made reasonable / appropriate b-sides for Krafty, Jetstream and WFTSC. Would’ve been preferably to the plethora of (mostly superfluous) remixes that accompanied the single releases.

Perhaps the songs weren’t in a finished state at the time.

On the rare occasion I listen to Lost Sirens, I get the impression that none of the songs were in a finished state years later, at the time of release. :-/

I’m glad that Lost Sirens was released but I think I’d have rather the tracks had been included on a deluxe edition of WFTSC. Perhaps released 6-12 months or so after that LPs initial release.

I just don’t really feel that the tracks were good enough for an independent release.

Bonus tracks? Sure. Separate LP? Not so much.

Yes, you can always rely on KIC for sobre, reasoned comments based firmly in reality. There's a good album to be culled from WFTSC / LS (like RTP and its B-sides) but that's beer and Mel C time. I'd've preferred the tacks plus the full-length Cuntrol but...

Substance 2 was firsr mooted by Hooky in 94 but I've said that 47600479 times. I wouldn't be up for it because:

1. ANOTHER rehash, 2 years on from their last 'proper' release? It's getting ridickless.
2. It's been so up and down since then: offshoots, one-off collaborations, personnel / personal issues... There's mathematical satisfaction in Substance.
3. I wouldn't.

Run Wild and the magic melodica is coming soon , and all those wonderful sirens, too. But, sadly I must cry another tear for all those gorgeous Eelectronic songs,and , Bad Loo Tenant songs, and Monaco and Revenge songs that may not get reviews. And In the Ghetto and Miracle Cure, oh my , it is truly a wonderful world when there are almost an infinite number of new order songs , at least a thousand years worth

Normally there is enough time in a lifetime to listen to one's favorite songs hundreds ,if not thousands of times, and even go off on tangents and explore a myriad of others' songs. With New Order more time is not just needed ,new order transcends the very fabric of the spacetime continuum, and luckily that is where paradise makes it all perfectly clear..Heavenly paradise on earth offers a thousand years to recapture the great music, film,art ,sex, and fun moments of our lives on earth , and then eternity comes and we can just run wild. So, there really is time after all to listen to New Order ,and all of their great songs , forever .and ever , thank God

Don't exaggerate.

Run Wild + Here To Stay reviews posted.

Run Wild's a tad wanky for me. HTS is NO by numbers. Too little Hooky again.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Run Wild's a tad wanky for me. HTS is NO by numbers. Too little Hooky again.

^^ nice & concise

That's the 2nd reference to "NO by numbers" in the feedback to HTS. Keen to know what is meant by that...

DR

Dennis Remmer wrote: That's the 2nd reference to "NO by numbers" in the feedback to HTS. Keen to know what is meant by that...

DR

I think it might actually be the third reference, although it was meant as a compliment by one of the blog commenters.

No negativity from me though. The intricacies and energy of the track combined with the melody and non- Indie Landfill vibe (which had been too prevelant on GR) meant that if felt like a new beginning after GR. Perhaps the nod to BM/Kraftwerk could be seen as a little backwards looking, but for me it seemed to set them back on a more interesting track, and quite frankly it made me feel alive. Still does.

Great song in a long unbroken line of great songs. I remember a girlfriend that had one thought about neworder's everyone everywhere -tinny. She actually liked listening to journey, foreigner and meatloaf, so of course she is history

Dennis Remmer wrote:

^^ nice & concise

That's what she said. It's a decent track by most people's standards but formula. PCL has great toons AND a sense of discovery.

My take on "New Order by numbers" in regard to HTS is that all the traditional elements of a New Order song are in there so it should be a great classic New Order song right? Except for all the effort to put in classic New Ordser song ingredients the song is well, IMHO, not great.Not bad, i mean don't get me wrong i enjoy it from time to time but it at times sounds a little flat and something that is difficult to pinpoint but it doesn't blow me away.Monkhouse had a good point re PCL and that that album had a sense of discovery.Here To Stay was kind of like them trying to go back and to recreate something like that , like they used to but i'd say they only half succeeded.

Run Wild has, like a lot of songs on Get Ready, likeable parts but it's ultimately a bit meh.I vaguely recall being quite impressed though with that version on the iTunes original thing but haven't listened to it in a long time.

The classic (not in that sense) example of a song with all the right ingredients but none of the suss is Young Offender. It has all the elements of Round and Round but somewhow never climaxes.

Player in the league, or PITL is up next ,and It is another football or sports song, #3 by my count.

NO is so good they have a monopoly on great sport /football songs.

I got to listening to Bow Wow Wow and Mazzy Starr again and got lost and forgot to listen to the SG's, aka spice girls( ,but as yet no spice lads ) BWW's Annabelle Lwin and Mazzy's Hope Sandoval , Tracy of Primitives, and Harriet Wheeler ,and Sarah Cracknell , and Anneli Drecker of bel canto are all older but still spicy . I have to acknowledge the superpowers of all new order members, ,they not only are better than other rock and roll bands, but way better and not boring like iron man Thor batman and hulk . What else? Bernard is probably still being wonderful , thinking of lyrics ,rhythms and exciting dancing trends , and healthy whoops ,and awesome guitar epics of exquisite taste,fire, seduction, and beauty beyond the infinite , and also just for being on Star Test, '93??

Player aka Field aka bag of shite has some charming music towards the end, but some of the worst lyrics the Barnster ever produced. It was gonna be on GR but rightly relegated to B-side - it woud've worked even less in the context of an erratically great LP. http://www.nme.com/news/music/new-order-133-1384295 Republic has strong lyrics, weak music; Get Ready, the reverse. Disgust. Electronic were all about studio, Revenge all about the stage. Disgust.

Player In The League has some really great moments. The outro is one of the best New Order have ever done. But yet again, another song of the Get Ready era fails to achieve legendary status. Still, there’s a lot of it I’ve always fairly enjoyed. A b-side suits ur about right; worth putting out but not an album.

Player In The League + Such A Good Thing reviews posted.