How great is republic?

Wow- just now it dawned upon me that this maligned disk has more interesting songs total, than moovement, PCL, and MooLife combined. Even with the song about port royal sound with bernard "rapping" very confidently like madonna (maybe call it a recitation). References to cows in no way reflect on the content of lowlife or movement or similarity to the cow of Atom Heart Mother by Pink Floyd or echo and the bunnycows of " seven seas" video fame

Sorry I didn't include the words to the song about port royal sound, which are quite prescient. Something something something the price I pay , Something something something have some hay Blah blah blah blah blah Or blah blah blah blah blah blah

Yeah I like republic to, I remember that was the first New Order CD I bought and listened to it non stop.

My son (12) heard it for the first time in my car this week, and fell in love with it (especially with Liar). Now he wants it on his iPod, as well as Singles. I hope he'll eventually like PCL and Technique as much.

Ben wrote: My son (12) heard it for the first time in my car this week, and fell in love with it

That's the acid test. 4 things I promise to stop discussing, partly cos I only have one lifetime, mainly cos no one gives a fuck what I think and minus no one is gonna reconsider their opinions on the basis thereof:

1. Why Republic is shit.
2. How it's possible to love NO and at the same time think they're massively overrated.
3. Why The Young Ones is the Beatles and Bottom is Wings.
4. Why Mel C is the ultimate dreamboat.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Ben wrote: My son (12) heard it for the first time in my car this week, and fell in love with it

That's the acid test. 4 things I promise to stop discussing, partly cos I only have one lifetime, mainly cos no one gives a fuck what I think and minus no one is gonna reconsider their opinions on the basis thereof:

1. Why Republic is shit.
2. How it's possible to love NO and at the same time think they're massively overrated.
3. Why The Young Ones is the Beatles and Bottom is Wings.
4. Why Mel C is the ultimate dreamboat.

Seriously do you even like New Order? On nearly very thread I see you with some sort of buzzkill comment on why NO are overrated or not as good as we think they are. I mean Republic is my least favourite NO album due to Hooky's bass pretty much being absent and "commercial" dance/club sound but considering this is a Republic appreciation thread, I'll just mention that Regret is one of the best singles of the 90s, Everyone Everywhere is pretty underrated and World is a guilty pleasure of mine even with the lack of Hooky's bass. It's cool to be a casual listener and only appreciate a few NO albums but most people here are pretty hardcore fans.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Ben wrote: My son (12) heard it for the first time in my car this week, and fell in love with it

That's the acid test. 4 things I promise to stop discussing, partly cos I only have one lifetime, mainly cos no one gives a fuck what I think and minus no one is gonna reconsider their opinions on the basis thereof:

1. Why Republic is shit.
2. How it's possible to love NO and at the same time think they're massively overrated.
3. Why The Young Ones is the Beatles and Bottom is Wings.
4. Why Mel C is the ultimate dreamboat.

1. Strongly disagree.
2. I know what you mean.
3. I love both:quoting Alan Partridge, "Wings are only the group the Beatles could have been!"
4. I could be persuaded...

YourSilentFace wrote:

I mean Republic is my least favourite NO album due to Hooky's bass pretty much being absent ...

Yes, I'd say Hook's bass taking a back seat or rest on this album is why I think Republic is not as loved as other albums, but not every fan likes New Order for Hook's bass to the extent they can't do without it. With the event of Music Complete - and hopefully many more New Order albums to come - maybe time will be kinder to Republic and accepted for it's brilliance...

keepitcoming wrote: Wow- just now it dawned upon me that this maligned disk has more interesting songs total, than moovement, PCL, and MooLife combined. Even with the song about port royal sound with bernard "rapping" very confidently like madonna (maybe call it a recitation). References to cows in no way reflect on the content of lowlife or movement or similarity to the cow of Atom Heart Mother by Pink Floyd or echo and the bunnycows of " seven seas" video fame

Ah it's this one again!... As I've said before, 'overrated' does not mean 'shit'. It simply means there's an abyss between the comments made and the quality and quantity of actual product. Here are some genuine professional quotes - funnily enough, many from 93 when it looked like they were running out of steam forever - now put your obsession aside with one hand and put your other hand on your heart and try to justify them:

1. 'The most influential band since the Beatles or the Stones.' (Beatles? Stones? Who?)
2. 'They dominate the charts like no other group.' (Check the mid 90s.)
3. 'Electronic' is one of the greatest albums ever made.' (Try 'The Beatles', 'Tommy', 'Spice'. (OK, I'm joking! 'Tommy's shit.)
4. (my personal favourite) 'New Order are our finest band, incapable of making anything less than a great record. Indeed, Republic shows they're currently making the strongest music of their lives... I also love Revenge, Electronic and the Other Two with a passion...' 'Revenge is fractured brilliance... Bernard is up there with Eno, Bowie and the only genius currently working in music.' Can I justify any of this with their meagre output? No. Does this mean I'm no longer a fan?

keepitcoming wrote: Wow- just now it dawned upon me that this maligned disk has more interesting songs total, than moovement, PCL, and MooLife combined. Even with the song about port royal sound with bernard "rapping" very confidently like madonna (maybe call it a recitation). References to cows in no way reflect on the content of lowlife or movement or similarity to the cow of Atom Heart Mother by Pink Floyd or echo and the bunnycows of " seven seas" video fame

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW7skJLjTJY

I'm sorry to see that keepitcoming's Lego movie thread was locked, as I wanted to ask a couple of brief questions. If you're reading this KIC, could you please advise:

1. Did you start that thread at 3 in the morning?
2. What were you smoking at the time?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Ah it's this one again!... As I've said before, 'overrated' does not mean 'shit'. It simply means there's an abyss between the comments made and the quality and quantity of actual product. Here are some genuine professional quotes - funnily enough, many from 93 when it looked like they were running out of steam forever - now put your obsession aside with one hand and put your other hand on your heart and try to justify them:

1. 'The most influential band since the Beatles or the Stones.' (Beatles? Stones? Who?)
2. 'They dominate the charts like no other group.' (Check the mid 90s.)
3. 'Electronic' is one of the greatest albums ever made.' (Try 'The Beatles', 'Tommy', 'Spice'. (OK, I'm joking! 'Tommy's shit.)
4. (my personal favourite) 'New Order are our finest band, incapable of making anything less than a great record. Indeed, Republic shows they're currently making the strongest music of their lives... I also love Revenge, Electronic and the Other Two with a passion...' 'Revenge is fractured brilliance... Bernard is up there with Eno, Bowie and the only genius currently working in music.' Can I justify any of this with their meagre output? No. Does this mean I'm no longer a fan?

1.Influential is always a vague thing in my opinion. New Order influenced The Bravery, possibly.Who have they actually influenced musically? The bands they have influenced musically have all been shit (The Bravery etc.) The bands they have influenced in other ways are more interesting.I think they influenced Doves to name but one.Not musically but in an attitude and willing to take musical chances - There Goes The Fear in a roundabout way i always thought was influenced by mid 80s New Order and stuff like The Perfect Kiss.There Goes The Fear sounds nothing like The Perfect Kiss i hear you say and you'd be correct.But it's the courage to try something innovative and create something big and awe inspiring that's the influential connection between The Perfect Kiss and There Goes The Fear.Was it some Canadian or American band that did a song a few years back with a video that completely copied the Perfect Kiss video right down to the last facial expression? Jeez, take an influence from the attitude and music and create something new and inspired from it, not copy it.

2.Nope they've never really dominated charts.Unless you count the indie charts.True Faith never made the national charts no.1 and WIM only stayed at the top for 2 weeks.Technique was a number 1 album for 1 week.Not really chart conquerors .

3.Electronic was kind of the greatest album ever made as it soundtracked one of the greatest periods of time in my life in early summer 1991.So for that reason yes it was or is one of the greatest albums ever made.Though i still defend House Of Love's Butterfly/Fontana album as THE greatest album ever made.

4. In the 80s/early 90s New Order were indeed our finest band.But that doesn't mean they made the best singles or albums of all the artist and bands around at that era.They were our finest band because of their couldn't give a fuck and cool as fuck attitude ( back then i mean. That aura is long, long gone).They were our finest band because of their and Factory's outlook and attitude, not their records although a lot of their records were pretty fucking good.

5.I agree Sporty Spice is well fit.Even more so now.Oh, there wasn't a number 5?

I'd agree with most of that. Especially the last bit.

Deceiver wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Ben wrote: My son (12) heard it for the first time in my car this week, and fell in love with it

That's the acid test. 4 things I promise to stop discussing, partly cos I only have one lifetime, mainly cos no one gives a fuck what I think and minus no one is gonna reconsider their opinions on the basis thereof:

1. Why Republic is shit.
2. How it's possible to love NO and at the same time think they're massively overrated.
3. Why The Young Ones is the Beatles and Bottom is Wings.
4. Why Mel C is the ultimate dreamboat.

1. Strongly disagree.
2. I know what you mean.
3. I love both:quoting Alan Partridge, "Wings are only the group the Beatles could have been!"
4. I could be persuaded...

You talked me into it. In a nuts' Hell:

1. Hague's production; NO's listlessness.
2. I enjoy the music but the quality and quantity does not warrant the hyperbole.
3. http://www.chortle.co.uk/correspondents/2008/07/14/7057/once\_in\_every\_lifetime,\_comes\_a\_love\_like\_this...
4. Gorgeous face http://www.tornado.pair.com/melaniec/images/bmel/601-650/mc646.jpg Perfect shoulderblades http://www.tornado.pair.com/melaniec/images/bmel/651-700/mc652.jpg Awesomely honed physique http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/07/article-2046653-0E482FB700000578-552\_306x856.jpg The ability to survive 20 years in the biz without degenerating into arrogance (Posh), vulgarity (Miley Cyrus), excess (Winehouse) or grotesque plastic surgery (pretty much everyone). She has a little money too. I wrote this with my free hand.

Fotzepolitic wrote: They were our finest band because of their couldn't give a fuck and cool as fuck attitude ( back then i mean. That aura is long, long gone).They were our finest band because of their and Factory's outlook and attitude, not their records although a lot of their records were pretty fucking good.

In the words of Alan Partridge, absobloodyexactly. The strange thing is that people continue to praise them for a stance they haven't actualy exhibited for around 3 quarters of their existence.

I've never really got into Republic. I don't like the art style particularly, I don't know how that might relate to my feelings on the album itself. "Regret" I do like, and it's the only track I can actually recall from the top of my head. I did just pick up all that era's singles on eBay for $next tonothing, so I will give the other singles and all the b-sides a proper listen over the next week or so.

I loved Regret when it came out but was a little disappointed that the rest of Republic didn't really reach its standard.

At the time, I really lamented the lack of Hook's bass on the vast majority of the tracks, which seems quite ironic to me now.

I love True faith and had hoped that Stephen Hague would calm tensions and elevate the music but, with hindsight, he appears to have had his work cut out just glueing it all together.

The artwork always struck me as a lazy cop-out by Saville. (And I also bought The Limited Run!)

I liked Special & Avalanche and still do. The K-Class 'Re-united' mix of Ruined in a Day & the Perfecto version of World are both tip top.

I have just listened to most of it again for the first time in years. It's not actually as bad as my memory of it but I won't be going back to it any time soon either.

The making of Republic was discussed by Hook with Mark Radlcliffe on today's 6 Music interview mentioned in the Hook book thread.

I think it's a great album, needs more Hooky. As someone pointed out on one of these pages if you think of the direction of the albums being mostly down to Bernard there's a sort of sense in going from Technique to Electronic and then from Republic to Raise The Pressure, followed by Twisted Tenderness to Get Ready.

I don't recall who first pointed that out but I like it.

Coops wrote: I think it's a great album, needs more Hooky. As someone pointed out on one of these pages if you think of the direction of the albums being mostly down to Bernard there's a sort of sense in going from Technique to Electronic and then from Republic to Raise The Pressure, followed by Twisted Tenderness to Get Ready.

I don't recall who first pointed that out but I like it.

It was me who said that. Thank you; recognition at last! And thanks for not plagiarising me...

Deceiver wrote:

Coops wrote: I think it's a great album, needs more Hooky. As someone pointed out on one of these pages if you think of the direction of the albums being mostly down to Bernard there's a sort of sense in going from Technique to Electronic and then from Republic to Raise The Pressure, followed by Twisted Tenderness to Get Ready.

I don't recall who first pointed that out but I like it.

It was me who said that. Thank you; recognition at last! And thanks for not plagiarising me...

There is a clear break in direction from "Raise the Pressure" to "Twisted Tenderness" - the first is the last "classic" New Order-sounding album (housey pop with a bit of Smiths jingle-jangly in between), the latter the first 2k-sounding, big beat with big ROCK guitars. Almost like a fresh start.

I wrote this.

The most dated album of their career, too much in thrall to the tech fashions of its era. Still, Regret, Avalanche, Special make up for it.

Nexus8Replicant wrote: The most dated album of their career, too much in thrall to the tech fashions of its era. Still, Regret, Avalanche, Special make up for it.

Where do you get such a notion from? I bet you could tell the uninformed that Republic was released this year and they wouldn't bat an eyelid. Movement was instantly dated when released. P,C&L - as much as I love it - sounds like they used ZX Spectrum...

Deceiver wrote:

Nexus8Replicant wrote: The most dated album of their career, too much in thrall to the tech fashions of its era. Still, Regret, Avalanche, Special make up for it.

Where do you get such a notion from? I bet you could tell the uninformed that Republic was released this year and they wouldn't bat an eyelid. Movement was instantly dated when released. P,C&L - as much as I love it - sounds like they used ZX Spectrum...

It's just an opinion of course. Comparing the sound of Republic and its underwhelming production to say an act like Rival Consoles (who is ****ing great btw) shows its age pretty clearly. I take your point re: Movement, P,C&L et al, but to my ears those albums have a timeless quality.

Deceiver wrote:

Coops wrote: I think it's a great album, needs more Hooky. As someone pointed out on one of these pages if you think of the direction of the albums being mostly down to Bernard there's a sort of sense in going from Technique to Electronic and then from Republic to Raise The Pressure, followed by Twisted Tenderness to Get Ready.

I don't recall who first pointed that out but I like it.

It was me who said that. Thank you; recognition at last! And thanks for not plagiarising me...

Don't thank me, it just means you're the one who gets to argue with anybody who disagrees with us.

Oh, look it's started already 😄

3.Electronic was kind of the greatest album ever made as it soundtracked one of the greatest periods of time in my life in early summer 1991.So for that reason yes it was or is one of the greatest albums ever made.Though i still defend House Of Love's Butterfly/Fontana album as THE greatest album ever made.

91 was great and for that I will always hold the first Electronic album close to my heart. Still play it a lot

Surely House of love 1st album on creation was far better than the butterfly one. Although I,ve always liked In A Room

Republic - great first side an average at best 2nd side.

Really enjoying Spooky at the moment from that album, great chorus

To be honest, it is my least favorite album of the classic New Order line-up. Theres a few great songs and then the rest is meh

It's down there with Brotherhood for me. The only difference is the indifferent songs are more polished.

But I do love Everyone Everywhere, Times Change and Special.

Republic does appear to be NO's marmite album. You either love it or hate.

Well, I love it. Granted it isn't their greatest album by some way but it has some nice little little quirks.

1. Hooky's base is definitely there but in a subtle kind of way. He isn't dominating the sound as on many previous albums but his bass has a sort of mellow, underlying sound that works well on many of the songs. I am listening to the album as I write this and he plays some great stuff on the album.

2. Barney's quirky lyrics abound and from time to time fall into brilliance.

3. Every Everywhere is in my all-time top-5 NO songs.

4. I think the album version of Ruined in a Day is the worst song on the album but then you listen to the K-Klass remix and you get your mind blown.

5. Liar, Young Offender and Special are pretty good and Spooky is brilliant (original and remixed).

6. Plenty of female harmonies on the album and they are something different for NO. Even made a come-back on Music Complete.

7. Regret is a really strong track. I liked World even more.

Having liked their 80's hits and loved True Faith, this was the first NO album I purchased. From listening to it, I worked backwards and bought all their old albums. Can you imagine what it was like to suddenly realise New Order's brilliance and discover that you now had another 6 albums to listen too? I also bought Electronic after listening to Republic.

For me, Republic has led to a love for New Order's music, the discovery of Joy Division and Electronic and the incredible experience of seeing the band play live. Pogo-ing to the chorus of True Faith with thousands of others in the rain at Electric Picnic in 2006 was unforgettable. Republic is the starting point of my New Order experience and I'm sure it turned others onto the band too.

Probably not loved by the band (Steve has said as much) or the hardcore fans of the day but it is still great!

TF1.0

I love Regret, liked Ruined In A Day (well I did when Republic came out, haven't listened to it in ages), and preferred the Oakenfold remix of World and the Fluke remix of Spooky to the album versions, otherwise I can't honestly say that I think Republic is all that, the overall production just seems bland following the Factory albums and everything apart from Regret too forgettable.

truefaith1.0 wrote: Republic does appear to be NO's marmite album. You either love it or hate.

Well, I love it. Granted it isn't their greatest album by some way but it has some nice little little quirks.

1. Hooky's base is definitely there but in a subtle kind of way. He isn't dominating the sound as on many previous albums but his bass has a sort of mellow, underlying sound that works well on many of the songs. I am listening to the album as I write this and he plays some great stuff on the album.

2. Barney's quirky lyrics abound and from time to time fall into brilliance.

3. Every Everywhere is in my all-time top-5 NO songs.

4. I think the album version of Ruined in a Day is the worst song on the album but then you listen to the K-Klass remix and you get your mind blown.

5. Liar, Young Offender and Special are pretty good and Spooky is brilliant (original and remixed).

6. Plenty of female harmonies on the album and they are something different for NO. Even made a come-back on Music Complete.

7. Regret is a really strong track. I liked World even more.

Having liked their 80's hits and loved True Faith, this was the first NO album I purchased. From listening to it, I worked backwards and bought all their old albums. Can you imagine what it was like to suddenly realise New Order's brilliance and discover that you now had another 6 albums to listen too? I also bought Electronic after listening to Republic.

For me, Republic has led to a love for New Order's music, the discovery of Joy Division and Electronic and the incredible experience of seeing the band play live. Pogo-ing to the chorus of True Faith with thousands of others in the rain at Electric Picnic in 2006 was unforgettable. Republic is the starting point of my New Order experience and I'm sure it turned others onto the band too.

Probably not loved by the band (Steve has said as much) or the hardcore fans of the day but it is still great!

TF1.0

The worst thing about teaching is ocasionally you get something and don't agree with a fucking word but it's so beautifully argued you have to give it 10 / 10. You brute.

Sadly the Lego new order film has not been written yet , nor the new order star wars remakes, , nor neworder lord of the rings remakesHopefully, New Order ,the great pop band, will find the lego characterizations silly, but funny , with warmth and love oozing from every plastic pore. Yes , at 3 am , mountain time ( between central and pacific), but in alignment with Pacific time, just out of daylight savings time, on the Utah border, a Gila monster blew some special smoke flavors into my teepee. As for the reality of Lego new order - I wish more film makers would use new order songs , especially wes anderson, and I would love to see more films like snatch, the robt. ,Downey sherlocks and new order in more films, and hooray for republic

keepitcoming wrote: Yes , at 3 am ... a Gila monster blew some special smoke flavors into my teepee.

Say no more.

Republic is the New order album for people that bought their music from the Britannica Music Club . A kind of MOR New order for people who are very easily pleased.

Personally I haven't listened to it for years and have no enthusiasm to listen to it any time soon. It's not all bad and 'Side One' holds up fairly well, but there is a lot wrong with it.

Production was bland and there was no attempt to break new ground. Stephen Hague's production always sound like a sea of fog and where this album should of been bold and dynamic, it was lacklustre. Neworder should of been ambitious, but they bottled it. Did they ever recover...?

Of course there were under pressure to come up with a golden goose what would save Factory, but Wilson has already heard negative things about the album (as it then stood) before Factory's demise and it sounds forced and compromised. The excellent K-Klass remix of 'Ruined In a Day' gives you some idea what the band should really been doing with their sound (They mimed to this mix on TOTP, which showed nod to it)

New Order were always better producing albums themselves and Republic is polished glass. It sold though, so kept them in Pernod for a few more months.

Their best album IMHO. Opinions are like Skippy Chutes. Everyone has one.

Totally agree. Their best album. Can't wait for the remaster.

keepitcoming wrote: Sadly the Lego new order film has not been written yet , nor the new order star wars remakes, , nor neworder lord of the rings remakes

Yeah, I was looking forward to those. Still...

daftpunk wrote: Totally agree. Their best album. Can't wait for the remaster.

It was remastered in 2015. Available as digital download only (at least on iTunes). It's a good remaster with mush improved sound definition.

I remember Republic as being great. A great disappointment.

Regret promised so much...

Skip iTunes and go for HD versions which are available on a number of websites.

Many of the tracks on Republic get put on my Neworder playlists.

Regret is the standout and is Special very, very good. The Perfecto mix of World and K-Klass mix of RIAD are both quality tracks & improve on the decent but not great album versions. I have a soft spot for Spooky (Stadium mix) & Avalanche too.

But the key point is that I've never felt the temptation to stick the CD in the car and listen to the whole album right through - and I've even done that with Movement a few times, my least favourite Neworder album.

I think it is a GREAT album in full from start to finish, I remember that is one of the first cd's that I bought after hearing the song Regret on the NYC radio station Z100. I have great memories of that cd because my parents dove from NYC to Florida on route 1 south and I remember listening to it.

For an album that starts with Regret (one of my favourite New Order songs) - it completely peters out after Everyone Everywhere. The second side is really really weak, the songs seem one-paced, formulaic and I couldn't sing you a single one of them, or tell you the names of them if I heard them on the radio

NotAMod wrote: I'd like to see a fitting Deluxe Edition encompassing the best remixes, Vicious Circle and perhaps live performance or two. It's surely possible and hopefully will be included in the the rumoured slew of upcoming reissues/box-set.

I wouldn't hold your breath. World Perfecto and Spooky Stadium are light years ahead of the originals, but this probably has more to do with suss remixers than dud bands.

I sometimes used to think and still think Republic was staid and non ground breaking like a lot of music and culture around 1992-1993.I just remember that time 1992/1993 as quite static culture and music wise. Things picked up again 1994-1997 with releases from the likes of Future Sound Of London (Lifeforms in 1994 and Dead Cities in 1996), Orbital (Snivilization in 1994 and Insides in 1996) , Underworld's Dubnobasswithmyheadman in 1994 and Chemical Brothers' Exit Planet Dust in 1994 (1995?) and Dig Your Own Hole in 1997.Spritualized released Ladies & Gents We're Floating In Space in 1997.And so on and so on... oh and the likes of Portishead coming to the fore in the mid 90s.Unfortunately in the mid 90s we also had to suffer the dross of Blur and/or /vs Oasis but apart from that dreadful "Britpop" lot there was some great music 1994-1997.Republic came before all that and was systemic of a sag in music in the early 90s (bar Massive Attack's Blue Lines album in 1991 and House Of Love's Butterfly album in 1990) When i think of Republic i think of that seemingly, on the whole, uncreative era of music in the early 90s.

Thankyou

*drops mic, walks off*

You forgot the Spice Girls. 1996 was an awesome year for mucous. Suede's most accessible album to date, Oasis go ballistic, the Blur hype finally gets put in perspective, first full lengther from a New Orderer in three years (even though it's shite), the Pistols pull off the unlikeliest reunion ever, the Beatles' mature years get properly ANTHOLOGIsed, and the Spice Girls bring suss and sass back to the charts after dreary years of Radiocrud etc. I bet you never thought I'd say anything positive. People ask why I'm always criticising Trump and jerking off to the Spice Girls. Well I tried it the other way round and it just wasn't the same.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: You forgot the Spice Girls.

You're right, i did indeed forget them.And i also forgot Steps.Lisa Scott Lee was and still is my favourite.Cute as a bee.Faye was always pretty racey too.