Martin Hannett

i agree, Martin Hannet was very much essential to the success of Joy Division. where the band was messy and umm... ametuerish in stage, Martin hones their strenghts and strengthens their weaknesses. there's no doubt that Peter hook is an excellent bassist, and Stephen Morris is a great drummer, and both elements are emphasized on "Unknown Pleasures." he also introduces the synth to the band, not as a main instrument but as something that can successfully add another element to their sound. However, if you listen to a lot of Martin Hannet's production, you can tell he follows a basic formula; the way he mixes the drums. they all have that sparse, slightly echoed reverb to it. Happy Monday's "Bummed" has it, and so does the Hannet produced version of Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark's "Electricity," which I maintain is the best version of the song, no matter how unhappy Andy McCluskey and Paul Humphreys may feel with the end result.

Perhaps New Order wanted to start something new after 1981. I don't think Martin would've been very happy with the harsh drum sounds of "Temptation" and "Hurt." that said, "Everything's Gone Green" and "Procession" has some of the best production i've heard, and "Movement" remains one of the cleanest and warmest sounding albums in New Order's catalog.

cheers.

Just been listening to the 81 Peel sesh. I think the versions from that are probably more honest sounding.

No-one's mentioned Jilted John yet, have they?

I think he was more positive than negative, great for Joy Division but for Movement not so great. Yes it was difficult and all the rest, but as I read once in an interview that Bernard and Hooky wanted it more rockier while Martin went for the more goth wimp out, in their words.

Cheers ALEX

while Movement is worth the effort, you must admit that most listeners are very disappointed and underwhelmed by Movement on first listen... and Movement was made following the incredible Closer and the beautiful singles Ceremony and LWTUA, and made by basically the same group of people on either side of the studio, in their prime...

Martin Hannet was an eccentric and a genius and everyone around at the time said he transformed Joy Division from a meandering bunch of scallies to this powerhouse full of laser guided intentionality and purpose. Plus his work on Bummed is fantastic, a flawed classic.

I wish he would have produced a few more name bands. U2 would have been a more interesting band for instance. Smiths? Imagine him tackling Metallica? It boggles the mind.

Everything I'm doing these days aspires to the Martin Hannett sound.

"This is Nazi Punks fuk off, over-produced by Martin Hannett take 4" - fantastic

Sismundi - Hannett did indeed produce U2, on one single early on.

Yeah, I've heard that. Pedantics of the world unite and take over.

Sorry, that came over very condescending, but your pedantics missed my wider point...I just meant produced them in a real way. Take them somewhere new like he did with JD. I can't remember the details surounding U2 and Hannett, but I seem to recall something prevented them working together in a real way (drugs, other commitments?). Then U2 became huge and Edge established his sound et voila.

I cannot imagine Unknown Pleasures sounding one note differently. The reason it made such an impact was precisely because it sounded like nothing else at that time. If it had the same sound as the earlier, rockier JD tracks, it wouldn't have been the groundbreaking album that it is. With regards to Movement, it might sound quite primitive in comparison to the other NO albums, but to me it has that haunting, metallic, lost sound of a band in an intense, uncertain headspace. Sure, it doesn't have the classic singles and the uplifting, dancey stuff of later years, but to me it's their most honest album and it just speaks to something inside me.

Hannett was a rubbish producer. Joy Division weren`t that good, the Happy Mondays were pants, & 'Movement' was, on the whole, awful

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes Hannett was a rubbish producer. Joy Division weren`t that good, the Happy Mondays were pants, & 'Movement' was, on the whole, awful

don't think I've seen you make a positive comment yet anywhere ... apart from the fact that you rate Vietnam very highly. You seem to be on a different wavelength to most of us.

Originally posted by Geri > Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes> Hannett was a rubbish producer. Joy Division weren`t that good, the Happy Mondays were pants, & 'Movement' was, on the whole, awful

don't think I've seen you make a positive comment yet anywhere ... apart from the fact that you rate Vietnam very highly. You seem to be on a different wavelength to most of us.

Or perhaps someone in disguise!Your having a laugh aren't you MISTER or MISSES?:D

Originally posted by Geri

---

don't think I've seen you make a positive comment yet anywhere ... apart from the fact that you rate Vietnam very highly. You seem to be on a different wavelength to most of us.

Its just my opinion, sorry if you dont concur, but tough titty! Noones gonna give you a hard time just cos you dont like 'Vietnam', so get off my case: if I think Hannett was a rubbish producer, then that`s my choice & my business.

If you care to search out most of my other posts here, youll find I have PLENTY of positive comments to make about my favourite band New Order & other related issues. Or cant you be arsed?...

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes > Originally posted by Geri> > >

don't think I've seen you make a positive comment yet anywhere ... apart from the fact that you rate Vietnam very highly. You seem to be on a different wavelength to most of us.

Its just my opinion, sorry if you dont concur, but tough titty! Noones gonna give you a hard time just cos you dont like 'Vietnam', so get off my case: if I think Hannett was a rubbish producer, then that`s my choice & my business.

If you care to search out most of my other posts here, youll find I have PLENTY of positive comments to make about my favourite band New Order & other related issues. Or cant you be arsed?...

Sorry but I disagree with you too.

Martin rubbish ?

Stupid comment really.

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes If you care to search out most of my other posts here, youll find I have PLENTY of positive comments to make about my favourite band New Order & other related issues. Or cant you be arsed?..

I have taken the time to check you out, and sorry, can't agree with the use of PLENTY ......

You dont have to apologise for disagreeing with me. If everyone in the world thought the same, itd be a boring planet!

I have my opinion, you have yours. Let`s just agree to differ, yes?

Originally posted by Geri > > > I have taken the time to check you out, and sorry, can't agree with the use of PLENTY ......

You REALLY spent time just hunting out my past messages? My my, I`m flattered!

But what a boring thing to do! D'oh!

I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.

Originally posted by Carlos I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.

Hi Carlos

Long time we don´t talk each other.

I agree with you.

Originally posted by Carlos I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.

Saying that is a cliche derived from people in the 1960s calling George Martin the "5th Beatle". THAT is more likely a case than Hannett being the 5th New Order member, as at least George Martin produced nearly all of the Fab Fours recordings. Hannett only produced 'Movement' for New Order, & on the merits of that, he doesnt deserve the much-bandied "5th Member" tag.

Two people who MIGHT deserve it, tho`: the late, great Rob Gretton & Peter Saville

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes > Originally posted by Carlos> I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.

Saying that is a cliche derived from people in the 1960s calling George Martin the "5th Beatle". THAT is more likely a case than Hannett being the 5th New Order member, as at least George Martin produced nearly all of the Fab Fours recordings. Hannett only produced 'Movement' for New Order, & on the merits of that, he doesnt deserve the much-bandied "5th Member" tag.

Two people who MIGHT deserve it, tho`: the late, great Rob Gretton & Peter Saville

I agree that Gretton might deserve the "5th New Order member" more than Hannett, but if anything Hannett put them on the path they needed to go. Without him, Joy Division would've been just another punk band trying to ape the Pistols with a little Ziggy-era Bowie thrown in for good measure. (The scene where Ian says he hates Bowie in 24HPP always rung untrue for me, considering his earlier fandom. I suppose it was trying to show the divide between the old and the new, but Bowie had a big influence on JD's sound).

I think really you can't talk about Hannett's importance to the band without talking about Gretton, Saville, Erasmus, and (yes, really) Wilson. Without those five to back up the band and others on the Factory label, there would be no Manchester music scene, plain and simple.

I agree that Gretton might deserve the "5th New Order member" more than Hannett, but if anything Hannett put them on the path they needed to go. Without him, Joy Division would've been just another punk band trying to ape the Pistols with a little Ziggy-era Bowie thrown in for good measure. (The scene where Ian says he hates Bowie in 24HPP always rung untrue for me, considering his earlier fandom. I suppose it was trying to show the divide between the old and the new, but Bowie had a big influence on JD's sound).

I think really you can't talk about Hannett's importance to the band without talking about Gretton, Saville, Erasmus, and (yes, really) Wilson. Without those five to back up the band and others on the Factory label, there would be no Manchester music scene, plain and simple.

Too right! THIS guy talks sense

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes

I agree that Gretton might deserve the "5th New Order member" more than Hannett, but if anything Hannett put them on the path they needed to go. Without him, Joy Division would've been just another punk band trying to ape the Pistols with a little Ziggy-era Bowie thrown in for good measure. (The scene where Ian says he hates Bowie in 24HPP always rung untrue for me, considering his earlier fandom. I suppose it was trying to show the divide between the old and the new, but Bowie had a big influence on JD's sound).

I think really you can't talk about Hannett's importance to the band without talking about Gretton, Saville, Erasmus, and (yes, really) Wilson. Without those five to back up the band and others on the Factory label, there would be no Manchester music scene, plain and simple.

Too right! THIS guy talks sense

Me? Make sense? That's unpossible!

Taboo, you`re too hard on yourself!

Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes > Originally posted by Geri> > > > > > > > I have taken the time to check you out, and sorry, can't agree with the use of PLENTY ......>

You REALLY spent time just hunting out my past messages? My my, I`m flattered!

But what a boring thing to do! D'oh!

I like a challenge now and then. It was boring, yes, 'cos you really haven't got much to say. However, a good bottle of wine and some JD made it bearable.

Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes> > > > Originally posted by Carlos> > I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.>

Saying that is a cliche derived from people in the 1960s calling George Martin the "5th Beatle". THAT is more likely a case than Hannett being the 5th New Order member, as at least George Martin produced nearly all of the Fab Fours recordings. Hannett only produced 'Movement' for New Order, & on the merits of that, he doesnt deserve the much-bandied "5th Member" tag.

Two people who MIGHT deserve it, tho`: the late, great Rob Gretton & Peter Saville

I agree that Gretton might deserve the "5th New Order member" more than Hannett, but if anything Hannett put them on the path they needed to go. Without him, Joy Division would've been just another punk band trying to ape the Pistols with a little Ziggy-era Bowie thrown in for good measure. (The scene where Ian says he hates Bowie in 24HPP always rung untrue for me, considering his earlier fandom. I suppose it was trying to show the divide between the old and the new, but Bowie had a big influence on JD's sound).

I think really you can't talk about Hannett's importance to the band without talking about Gretton, Saville, Erasmus, and (yes, really) Wilson. Without those five to back up the band and others on the Factory label, there would be no Manchester music scene, plain and simple.

Let´s not confound production with management

Originally posted by Love Will Tear Us Apart > Originally posted by Taboo # 7> > > > Originally posted by James Stephen Barnes> > > > > > > Originally posted by Carlos> > > I think Martin Hannett was the 5th member of the band.> > >

Saying that is a cliche derived from people in the 1960s calling George Martin the "5th Beatle". THAT is more likely a case than Hannett being the 5th New Order member, as at least George Martin produced nearly all of the Fab Fours recordings. Hannett only produced 'Movement' for New Order, & on the merits of that, he doesnt deserve the much-bandied "5th Member" tag.

Two people who MIGHT deserve it, tho`: the late, great Rob Gretton & Peter Saville

I agree that Gretton might deserve the "5th New Order member" more than Hannett, but if anything Hannett put them on the path they needed to go. Without him, Joy Division would've been just another punk band trying to ape the Pistols with a little Ziggy-era Bowie thrown in for good measure. (The scene where Ian says he hates Bowie in 24HPP always rung untrue for me, considering his earlier fandom. I suppose it was trying to show the divide between the old and the new, but Bowie had a big influence on JD's sound).

I think really you can't talk about Hannett's importance to the band without talking about Gretton, Saville, Erasmus, and (yes, really) Wilson. Without those five to back up the band and others on the Factory label, there would be no Manchester music scene, plain and simple.

Let´s not confound production with management

Noones confusing management & production, but Gretton was around most of Joy Divsion/New Order`s career until his untimely death. Hannett was an over-rated smackhead who rightly got his marching orders after the foul-up that is "Movement'.

To even suggest that Hannett comes even close to being as important to N.O as the legendary Rob Gretton is just being downright disrespectful to the man who lived & breathed the band he managed every day