The Unpalatable Truth About New Order Lyrics

THINGS I CANNOT HIDE ANYMORE FROM MYSELF

I've been New Order fan since the mid-90s. They've been a soundtrack for most of my entire adult life. And most of it was based on the 1981—95 output (⅓ of the band's entire ongoing career, if you think about it). I also used to post here in thousands.

I really tried to like Get Ready, WFTSC and Music Complete when they were released but eventually I would pick 1 or 2 (!) tunes and never go back to these albums. What is it, I was asking myself more and more with every new release, especially when Music Complete came out, which sounded pretty good, despite the unoriginal music production. And I think I narrowed it down to one thing: THE LYRICS of the past 30 years.

I JUST CAN'T TAKE THEM ANYMORE.

They're boring, generic and just really embarrassing to hear. Sure, Sumner has never been a great lyricist and words are not that important in the music of New Order, some say. But...

It started probably around the time of the Republic sessions and got worse with every record since. "Hey you, you'll be okay, do what you do..." became Sumner's new-found mantra for over twenty years. WTF?! We are punks, we don't care. We don't want to feel okay or to be told what to do to feel okay. And that's what he tells us in every song since 2001.

I mean, there's no humor here or straight fucked up shit or exquisite nonsense like New Order had circa 1982-1984. No emotional drama of 1987-1990. What happened was is that, I think, Prozak really cured our hero because ever since then we have all these happy go around songs about nothing. "Two step forward, one step back..." Is it a group physical therapy class? Sure, it has a nice beat...

Fuck...

I'd be more content with Sumner singing about docking the yacht and late Amazon orders. This new tune... "You're not devil, you're a rebel..." It'd be more funny and poignant if it were "YOU'RE NOT A REBEL, YOU'RE A DEVIL..." Who is "you"? Not me, bud. I think Bernard should make an effort to break new grounds lyrically, however small they might be at this point. So yeah, I am really pleased sonically with some of the new music but the words just kill it for me to have an enduring enjoyment.

All the best.

Feels like I've been here before http://forums.neworderonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=1401#post11457 Hey now, wotcher doin' Feelin' like a bog with poo in Or a big fat cow a-mooin' You're a shoe shop with no shoe in Or a porn shop with no goo in Wooooo Hey now Hey! Wooo Gotta sort yerself out Don't be a lout That's what it's about Is that whatcher doin'

Hope it felt good to get that off your chest.

Barney's lyrics have always been shit. I don't care. I'm 100% a "sound" person, and his voice is just another instrument in the mix to me. I still don't know all the proper lyrics to songs I've listened to thousands of times.

I do appreciate the effort he made on Music Complete. I think those are lyrically some of the best he's ever written.

Anyway, it's certainly better than singing about cars, or girls, or Simon LeBon-like pretentious shit that was bad in the '80s and hasn't aged any better.

Yes it’s interesting what £50 says above about Bernard’s voice being another instrument, even if the lyrics aren’t always interesting or engaging . I can agree with that.

I think the lyrics on Leave Me Alone are one of Bernard’s best ever. But of course all that thousand islands in the sea stuff could mean nothing at all . But they’re effective and maybe that’s all that matters. I never did myself but I could understand young fans seeking their way backstage after a gig back in the day to ask what the lyrics are about ( an often repeated thread on NOOL at one time was of course asking what 1963 is about haha!) . I think a lot of Bernard’s lyrics on the 80s albums up to and including Technique are actually pretty good. Yeah of course there were a few duffers but they were much more interesting and engaging than say a lot of the lyrics on WFTSC. Though the lyrics to the title song on that album never fail to move the soul. All The Way from Technique is another high point lyric wise from Bernard. Again , like Leave Me Alone they could mean nothing but they just work so well and really hit the spot.

Later stuff like Slow Jam and all that “ it beats arithmetic “ stuff is certainly never going to win any awards for lyricism but I find them actually funny, they make me chuckle. So at least they work in that way if nothing else.

I guess the low points as has often been the opinion of many on here is all the hey now whatcha doin’? type nonsense. But again that’s when you can just maybe take Bernard’s voice as another instrument and let it go that the lyrics are cack.

He did get his game back up for some of the songs on Music Complete though. Restless has some lyrics that really strike a chord - “ What makes your day ?/ What miracle of life has come to stay?” And “ How much do you need? How much?, how much?” can only surely be interpreted as addressing the pointless greed of some in society today ( or has always been) and where does that need for greed actually get you in the end? I have some time for Bernard’s lyrical takes on the ills of the world.

"Behind closed doors we listen to The Corrs"

come on!

“Will United get beat?” from an Electronic song I can’t recall the name of.

Flicker. I always thought it was a joke - bathos and all that. I guess you're right - Bernard's voice is an element in the mix. Johnny Marr said he liked it and it was, ahem, distinctive, at least until 2000ish.

Bollocks. Bernard was spot on, it will always be the same, it's not gonna change, not as long as we keep going to school with Saddam Hussein.

Most song lyrics are crap when you really look at them, name me the best songwriter on the planet and there'll be some crap he/she's written somewhere. When New Order lyrics are good they're very good and when they're bad they're bloody terrible. Bernard clearly doesn't take it too seriously so I never have.

I think with Bernard the lows are very low and he's (rightly) called out for that a lot, but the highs are very high as well and he often doesn't get enough credit for that.

Songs like True Faith, Vanishing Point, Run, All Day Long, Leave Me Alone, Ultraviolence, Lonesome Tonight, Temptation have absolutely top notch lyrics that just work so well. Something like say the chorus of BLT is absolutely iconic. I think there's a kind of snobbery going on to Barney because he's not the literary type that journos love like e.g. Ian Curtis or Morrissey, but I think the lyrics of some of those songs I've just mentioned are easily on a par with more celebrated lyricists.

Admittedly though the post-factory period has been more meagre pickings and all the 'hey yeah how's it going' type guff is rubbish.

Skullcrushed wrote:

Songs like True Faith...

...never come ...morning sun ...brings me near ...replaced by fear

It's very simplistic/masculine rhyming, no?

I still like the song of course. Same for Age of Consent

...let me go? ...hurt me so ...likes to tell you ...want to do ...needs to tell you ...want me to

...might like to know ... few days ago ...word that it said ...going to regret

...likes to tell you ...want me to ...needs to tell me ...birds and the bees

...happens all the time? ...becomes a crime ...likes to tell you ...want to do ...needs to tell you, ooh-ooh

I'm sure there are more examples.

Well he's simple and a man. That's two of their best tracks. If you don't like those, you're fucked.

Not sure I want to pile on Bernard some more, as this is a well worn topic, but...

Sink or Swim by Bad Lieutenant is one of my least favourite lyrics of his. It put me off the album initially (although I now realize there's some quality tracks on it).

I think what bothers me most is that it seems as if he's actually trying to sound poetic. I won't post the entire lyric, but let me remind you of the second verse:

"Jesus, save this heart of gold Take the time to save a soul Will he bend or will he crack? Save this yearling from the pack He's not aware of anything Sure as Summer follows Spring Doesn't know where he's coming from Reaching perfection takes too long

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah"

I interpret "Reaching perfection take too long" as him saying fuck it, why try so hard at something that's never going to be perfect anyway. Like his lyrics. So instead of writing more words, just repeat "yeah" 21 times.

And yes, the song begins with "What you doing".

50poundnote wrote: Hope it felt good to get that off your chest.

Yes, indeed!

But I do want Bernard to sing about what matters to him: yacht repair bills, flat tire on M1, disobedient kids... NOT about the mystical "you" in all his songs of the past 20 years who constantly needs to be assured it's all okay. No, it's not okay.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: That's two of their best tracks. If you don't like those, you're fucked.

😄 😄 😄

Right. But I do know at least two people who seriously think New Order were finished after Movement and refuse to listen to anything by them post-1981.

Skullcrushed wrote:

Admittedly though the post-factory period has been more meagre pickings and all the 'hey yeah how's it going' type guff is rubbish.

I dread the new album will be all about "hey you, you're okay if you listen to this album and you will be okay when you don't".

No Barcode wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: That's two of their best tracks. If you don't like those, you're fucked.

😄 😄 😄

Right. But I do know at least two people who seriously think New Order were finished after Movement and refuse to listen to anything by them post-1981.

Wow, a whole two... 😕

No Barcode wrote: But I do know at least two people who seriously think New Order were finished after Movement and refuse to listen to anything by them post-1981

Then they aren't fans. Why even bother?

No Barcode wrote: I dread the new album will be all about "hey you, you're okay if you listen to this album and you will be okay when you don't".

What new album?

Be A Rebel is a one-off single, intended to promote the joint tour with Pet Shop Boys. Despite COVID and the tour being delayed, they went ahead and released it because these things usually have schedules for manufacture, marketing, and promotion planned months in advance.

50poundnote wrote:

No Barcode wrote: But I do know at least two people who seriously think New Order were finished after Movement and refuse to listen to anything by them post-1981

Then they aren't fans. Why even bother?

They're Joy Division fans. Joy Division were the band from whose ashes New Order rose.

50poundnote wrote:

What new album?

Be A Rebel is a one-off single, intended to promote the joint tour with Pet Shop Boys. Despite COVID and the tour being delayed, they went ahead and released it because these things usually have schedules for manufacture, marketing, and promotion planned months in advance.

I've been out of loop, it seems. Good to know.

Debaser wrote:

It's very simplistic/masculine rhyming, no?

I mean, they're pop songs, 99% of pop songs have a simplistic rhyming structure, even those by more 'celebrated' lyricists. It doesn't mean the use of language and turns of phrase isn't evocative. Something like the opening of True Faith I think is really poetic and interesting:

I feel so extraordinary Something's got a hold of me I get this feeling I'm in motion A certain sense of liberty...

You're not honestly expecting a new album, are you? It'll be out the day after my wedding to Sporty. Yeah, the Barnster was a distinctive vocalist and erratically brilliant lyricist till the naughties, but there's been a lot of formula since then. My dislike of the sort-yerself-out vein goes back to Close Range. Shoutout to This Time I'm Not Wrong, which is better than most of Raise The Penis. And All That I Need.

And yes, the opening of True Faith is strong and appealed to Neil Tennant, who used to have a thing about wishing he'd written half their songs. Novelty has worn off over the last 35 years though. It's also important to consider lyrics in the context of the music. Imagine Strawberry Fields Forever without the sounds. It's easy if you try. It isn't hard to do.

Skullcrushed wrote:

Debaser wrote:

It's very simplistic/masculine rhyming, no?

I mean, they're pop songs, 99% of pop songs have a simplistic rhyming structure, even those by more 'celebrated' lyricists. It doesn't mean the use of language and turns of phrase isn't evocative. Something like the opening of True Faith I think is really poetic and interesting:

I feel so extraordinary Something's got a hold of me I get this feeling I'm in motion A certain sense of liberty...

Don't forget the bit where he rhymes "too much" with um, "too much". Brilliant!

If New Order had behaved like any other '80s pop band, I don't think I could overlook the lyrics. Imagine if they'd participated in Band Aid, Live Aid, were on the cover of Smash Hits and did poptastic things?

But they had their own sound, their own look (granted, Barney's shorty-shorts weren't a wise choice - nor Hook wearing SWEATPANTS for The Perfect Kiss video), and created a real mystique by giving limited interviews and shunning the spotlight. Because of that, I always viewed Barney as having a certain mystery, and his lyrics were an attempt to get across his feelings. Does that make sense? Maybe he wasn't so articulate and was struggling to get across the things he needed to express. Everything else about them was so unlike their peers, I could excuse the occasional clunky lyric, because you got the feeling it was sincere.

I can't believe it's not butter or that if you like New Order and want to criticise BS lyrics, you're starting with True Feces. There's Weirdo, Truth and everything the fucker's done since Technique.

I totally agree with Michael and others here in that True Faith is one of the high points in Bernard’s lyrical output.

In 1987, when I was 15, I was into standard ‘rock’, which included bands like Rainbow (don’t laugh) amongst others.

So, I was used to hearing lyrics like this:

“I wanna love you all night long I wanna be with you all night long”

Then I heard True Faith:

“I used to think that the day would never come I'd see the light in the shade of the morning sun My morning sun is the drug that brings me near To the childhood I lost, replaced by fear I used to think that the day would never come That my life would depend on the morning sun”

To say that this song had a profound impact on my teenage life is a massive understatement.

I then started looking to other tracks and Blue Monday was one of the first:

“I see a ship in the harbour I can and shall obey But if it wasn't for your misfortune I'd be a heavenly person today.”

Suddenly, I was faced with lyrics that I couldn’t interpret immediately; something that I’d have to think about. This was very appealing to me.

Coupled with the band’s ‘non-image’ and reticence to do interviews, here was a group of individuals that seemed so bloody mysterious. Compare them with most rock bands dressed head to toe in leather and/or spandex camping it up on TOTP, singing about how they want to make it with some centrefold. Night and Day.

There were other examples of enigmatic lyrics, some a bit daft (“from my head to my toes, to my teeth, through my nose, you get these words wrong”) and some ridiculously simple (Oh you’ve got green eyes, oh you’ve got blue eyes, oh you’ve got grey eyes), but all still highly emotive.

I’ve often said that True Faith’s b-side, 1963, is the record that changed my music taste forever. When I finally heard it (on purchase of Substance), I couldn’t believe the beautiful melancholy of both the music and the lyrics. From that day onwards, I was no longer a ‘rock’ fan. I wanted something ‘more’ and New Order, and Joy Division, gave me that.

All that being said, I will admit that, post 1990, Sumner’s lyrics haven’t been all that great (especially the ‘hey now, you’ll be fine’ type). However, I will defend his 1980s lyrics with my last breath. His words spoke more to me than any line from a Rainbow tune.

Fuck, someone agrees with me. I had a similar intro to the band in 1989 and fell in love with the enigmatic image and song lyrics cos I heard the best first: Round and Round, True Faith, Thieves like us (do they?). Sadly it was mostly downhill after that... In a similar vein, my first solo McCartney album was Band on the Run and I assumed it was typical of the quality. Wild Life was a breath of fecked hair. I'm not convinced sincerity suffices for art though. Melanie C I want to be With ye In a tree Listening to Let it Be By the bea Tles, you see. Just ye and me. Whoopee

Blimey, there's a lot of over-thinking going on here😄

Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while. And I think there's plenty of decent lyrics on Music Complete so maybe when Bernards happy he writes well and when he's not he just thinks "fuck it, that'll do, I'm going home".

Coops wrote:

Stray Dog's good and that's a new one, well, six years old now but it's as new as we're going to get for a while.

Yep - Stray Dog features some good lyrics, and that can be said for a lot of the songs on Music Complete. A return to form, both musically and lyrically.

It's the Get Ready / WFTSC / Lost Sirens period where things went a bit screwy. Although I'm not a massive fan of Republic, lyrically it wasn't that terrible (although there are a few lines lines that would certainly fall into that category).

Incidentally, I love Stray Dog and it is easily one of my favourites on Music Complete (along with Singularity and Academic). It sounds like the natural successor to Murder, but with some added (pretty interesting) prose. Definitely far more intriguing lyrically than the typical 'you're ok, just stay with me, we'll be ok together' style of Sumner's later work.

Hmm, I now want to listen to Music Complete. Let's hope we get at least one more LP out of the band.

Yes. Let's!

Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!

Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.

50poundnote wrote: Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Once it was "just the lads" and they indulged their worst rock impulses (Rock The Shack, Working Overtime) everything kinda sucked. Get Ready, WFTSC, and Lost Sirens are definitely ranked at the bottom for me. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.

Agreed. Now, if we can only get a little more Gillian backing vox on there too...

tapebias wrote: Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!

Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen.

I loved NO's earlier-mid phase lyrics. Obtuse, interpretational, irreverent.

Coupled with Bernard's earnest, almost childlike vocals, they offset the cold, hard machinery of the music perfectly.

He flipped to a more "observational" style of lyric with age. You can see why - he could no longer pretend he wasn't an elder musical statesman, well-heeled and yachting around the Med between albums. Hard to keep playing the poor, unsettled, alienated youth card.

Unfortunately his observations on life aren't his strong suit and I find the lyrics of stuff like Krafty, Restless, Be A Rebel and so on pretty bland. "We all need an job", "There's more to life", "You can change if you want to" type stuff.

Or maybe it was just the drugs.

I think one of the biggest clunky lyrical lines of Barneys anything that rhymes will do, lazyitus repertoire is:

Dont wanna own a key, don’t wanna wash my car

I still cringe every time I play Turn my Way. A great song ruined by one line.

50poundnote wrote: Apart from the occasional clunker, I hold Movement through Republic in high regard (some higher than others). I feel like the decline in lyrical quality coincides with Gillian's departure. Things improved dramatically with Gillian's return and Music Complete.

Gillian is their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's a common misconception that the plodding dadrock between Republic and Mucous Complete is due to losing Gillian (their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). It sounds cool - blame men for everything - but it isn't borne out by the facts cos she was on Brutal and Get Ready (though not the tour). The only album she missed was Sirens/LS and I've no idea how much she contributed to MC, but I doubt it was more than the others. The others are their secret weapon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, there was a real change after Technique. Their approach became far more professional or bog standard, depending on your point of view. I read that one of the reasons they started repeated setlists in 89 was practical: travelling long distances meant they had to programme equipment in advance, and big US venues were less tolerant of their fucking around on stage.
And yeah, the Turd my Way lyrics are sub Andrew Dice Clay, despite the strong music. I could say that republic had strong lyrics but weak music, Get ready the opposite. Or I could shut the fuck up cos no one cares what anyone else thinks.

depthcharge wrote:

tapebias wrote: Didn't they lock him in a room for True Faith/1963 and he didn't come out til he finished? I'm sure I read that somewhere. Might be worth trying again and the same goes with the music - deadlines!

Reminds me of the time Johnny locked him in a room with a legal prescription and a pen.

Try again? Not if it leads to another Raise the Pussy.

Like everything new order lots of contradictions when it comes to lyrics.

I think movement to republic Bernard (and the others as they were involved up to technique) I think NO lyrics are underrated. Some songs may mean nothing at all but cut deep with the listener a 1000 islands in the sea...., others can be an oxymoron but still great, if you listen hard I will make you see, be genuinely funny and bring a smile, you look like a pig you should be in a zoo, Be moving, this is a song about the innocent. Anthem like, up down turn around, mundane, maybe I’ve forgotten the name and the address.

After the factory years they have been mixed, smiles have been replaced with cringes (slow jam). Too much hey now, hey you , hey hey hey.....Personally I think get ready is a strong album but let down my lyrics although personally listening enjoyment is not ruined.

However I like Bernards observational lyrics on songs such as Restless, Krafty etc, MC definitely a return to better lyrics. In fact MC gets the balance right as when not much mean it is on tracks like tutti fruiti which is a full on dance track where lyrics are rarely required to be the focal point more ab96t the hook! Nice to see stray dog getting some deserved love.

NO have always been about the music and the lyrics are just a part and not the whole.

I'd agree with most of the Shadow. The classic example is Primitive Notion, which would be up there with 24 Hours and Sunrise if the lyrics weren't so limp. Magic potion? What is this, Harry fucking Potter? The lyrics to Leave me Alone are, like a lot of them, meaningless and meaningful at the same time. As I mentioned, Republic is better lyrically than musically, though some of the second side is fairly cringeworthy. Get Ready is musically tough but lyrically crud. You CAN buy honey with money. Is it just me or does Winnie the Pooh sound like a polite term for anal?

Put a bit of Technique on earlier, goes well with the sunshine, thought I'd enjoy a bit of what many folk think of as Bernards best lyrics, you know, before he went a bit hey now hey nonny nonny. Fine Time. Teeth .

Brilliant.