Question - Masters Of The Ceremony Megamix

Back in late 1990, I remember reading about the above 'megamix' and was quite interested to hear it.

Over the years, I've tried to find a copy online, but with no success. Googling it today draws a complete blank, with absolutely no reference to this online whatsoever.

Now, I'm guessing it's probably not the greatest thing ever committed to vinyl (I have a load of other 1980s New Order bootlegs, and they're invariably terrible), but I'd still be interested in hearing it.

It was apparently mixed by a 'DJ Eject' and released on a bootleg.

Here's a cutting of 'Record Collector' #136, 12/1990, which is where I first read about it:

I'm starting to think that it either didn't exist and RC got it wrong, or it was very much a 'bedroom effort', with extremely limited release.

Anybody able to satisfy my curiosity?

Whilst we're on the subject, of megamixes, I used to have a mix of Bizarre Love Triangle/Angel Dust on tape? Anybody remember that? I'm sure it wasn't that great, but it would be nice to hear it again, if anyone has it.

Never heard of that Masters Of Ceremony one or the Megatrax one but I think the disc pictured below that I have is the ON-USound one mentioned in that cutting at the end. Haven’t played it in years. From memory TPK, BLT and BM and maybe more are mega mixed on it and Bronksi Beat mixed in also or on the b side or something , really can’t remember without giving it a spin

I think you’re right, Fotz.

I bought that disc myself, from HMV in Manchester. 1990, I think. Around the same time, I bought the Arthur Baker ‘Minimal’ remixes of ‘Confusion’.

I read that article too and assumed it was the mix on Demos, Outtakes and Rarities. There were three of these bootleg cassettes and they got steadily less worthwhile.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I read that article too and assumed it was the mix on Demos, Outtakes and Rarities. There were three of these bootleg cassettes and they got steadily less worthwhile.

I'm not sure I'm aware of those compilations. I'll look them up.

I've been looking through some of my old trade lists, and the Masters Of The Ceremony megamix is mentioned on a couple of them.

Apparently, it's 45 minutes long (or thereabouts). Crikey! That might be a bit excessive.

It either covers about 15-20 tracks by the band, or (more likely) mixes the usual tracks with various other songs from the era.

Three cassettes I picked up at a record fair in 1992. The most interesting was the first cos it had 586 Pts One and Two, Haystack, Homage and the Hassie flexidisc. There's a tracklisting here but it doesn't specify which versions https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Demos-Outakes-Rarities/release/7935833 . The funny part is that I thought Haystack had a woman on vocals so it was an old Inadequates track! I was right about the flexi tracks, and assumed 586 was an early version (half-right) and Homage an old demo (right again). Record Mirror and An Ideal For Living proved invaluable back then. The best part about the second one was Let's Go / Waiting for so long, which was also the best part of the third one! Milking it, really, but I'm sure there were two megamixes on there.

I have the rarities 2 cassette, with the photo of Barney, but it's on orange paper instead of green. It includes soundcheck versions of Angel Dust and All Day Long from the Playhouse Theater in Edinburgh, 11 September 1986. I LOVE these versions, because they used a singular/heavier drum machine sound live, and you can hear how beautiful the sequenced tracks are by themselves.

Also had the London 6.12.85 cassette. Kudos for starting with Atmosphere for the first time, the closest ever to a definitive TPK, and the full soundcheck featuring some JD to boot. Vague memories of some BLT demos and As Tit Is When tit Was with alternative lyrics, but it's been fucking Decades (see what I did there).

Thanks for the info, both. Although I didn't have those exact cassettes, I certainly had some similar ones. It was great to finally get to hear some of those rarities (Homage, Video 5-8-6, Theme etc.). I also had some similar tapes that included all the various soundtrack variants.

I have that AIIWIW demo mentioned.

I also have a demo of BLT, with different lyrics. It's basically like those early live performances of the track ("You will take me by the hand and I won't leave you far behind", etc.). However, I'm not 100% convinced it isn't either a rehearsal or a soundcheck, as it has Bernard talking about the drum machine at the beginning.

It's labelled as a demo, but I guess that was probably the bootlegger 're-classifying' it to make it sound like something that might be of interest. Case in point, from the same period, I supposedly have demos of Paradise and Sub-Culture. I think I bought these thinking they would be different:

Paradise could be a demo, but is probably just soundcheck/rehearsal). Sub-Culture is just the RM Remix.

Fooled by the bootleggers, once again.

Yeah, I had a BLT 'demo' where he talks about the sequencer. I assumed it was a soundcheck. Different lyrics too - 'Keep your thoughts inside your head; think too much and you'll be dead...' The worst bootleg rip off was RIAD Fazed and Dazed on The Remix CD, which I mentioned in the Rarities thread. I'm convinced the bootlegger did it at home and bunged it on there to fool even the most obsessive completist. makes the Sly n Robbie take sound like Hendrix.
For years I thought Theme was Homage (A MGM). Finally heard the true horror through arsistance on these forums, and bought it on the Bemucous compilation.

perspexorange wrote: Thanks for the info, both. Although I didn't have those exact cassettes, I certainly had some similar ones. It was great to finally get to hear some of those rarities (Homage, Video 5-8-6, Theme etc.). I also had some similar tapes that included all the various soundtrack variants.

I have that AIIWIW demo mentioned.

I also have a demo of BLT, with different lyrics. It's basically like those early live performances of the track ("You will take me by the hand and I won't leave you far behind", etc.). However, I'm not 100% convinced it isn't either a rehearsal or a soundcheck, as it has Bernard talking about the drum machine at the beginning.

It's labelled as a demo, but I guess that was probably the bootlegger 're-classifying' it to make it sound like something that might be of interest. Case in point, from the same period, I supposedly have demos of Paradise and Sub-Culture. I think I bought these thinking they would be different:

Paradise could be a demo, but is probably just soundcheck/rehearsal). Sub-Culture is just the RM Remix.

Fooled by the bootleggers, once again.

thats interesting about those demos or rehersal tracks.

hooky is selling off a lot of them, and maybe those will show up if someone here gets access to them.

i have a feeling they will all go for a lot of money to the major collectors.

later -1

Yeah - I had that RIAD 'Phased & Dazed' mix on here:

https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-The-Remix/release/7706942

Yeah, the mix was certainly amateur, but the other tracks made it a worthwhile compilation to get. There were a lot of those previously mentioned soundtrack variants, plus things like the Paradise and Run 2 remixes on CD.

'Theme (sometimes known as 'Theme (Hommage A MGM)') is a bit of an odd one, isn't it?

It originally appeared on the 'Crépuscule Collection 1 - The Quick Neat Job' compilation in 1986. Then it appeared on the 'Moving Soundtracks (Volume One)' compilation in 1991. Both releases credited it to 'Be Music' and used the full name.

It next appeared on the LTM compilation 'Cool As Ice (The Be Music Productions)' in 2003. Again, this was under the 'Be Music' banner but this time reduced to just 'Theme'.

Finally, it made an appearance on the other LTM compilation 'New Order Presents Be Music' in 2017. It was now relabelled as 'Lavolta Lakota Theme' and credited solely to 'Peter Hook'.

For years, it was always assumed by most fans that it was the band in disguise as 'Be Music' (although the band members worked separately under that umbrella). However, that last release seems to indicate that Hooky was the only one who worked on it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was the music the band 'Lavolta Lakota' walked on stage to, hence the new name. I think Hooky used to do their live sound and was where he pinched Dave Hicks from for Revenge.

negative1 wrote: ...and maybe those will show up if someone here gets access to them.

i have a feeling they will all go for a lot of money to the major collectors.

I think this is the problem. I doubt anyone who posts here will be able to outbid the major collectors. So it seems doubtful that these will ever be propagated any further than the buyer.

I hope I'm wrong though. It would be real shame for all of these to just sit with one individual for the rest of his life.

With any luck, 'Johnny James' has copies of most of this (if not all), and we get to hear the best stuff on the forthcoming box sets.

I was looking through the online catalogue yesterday. It has a lot clearer pictures than the printed one (and more pictures too), so it's easier to make out what might be on the various tapes. There does look like there might be some real gems featured in the auction.

perspexorange wrote:

'Theme (sometimes known as 'Theme (Hommage A MGM)') is a bit of an odd one, isn't it?

It originally appeared on the 'Crépuscule Collection 1 - The Quick Neat Job' compilation in 1986. Then it appeared on the 'Moving Soundtracks (Volume One)' compilation in 1991. Both releases credited it to 'Be Music' and used the full name.

It next appeared on the LTM compilation 'Cool As Ice (The Be Music Productions)' in 2003. Again, this was under the 'Be Music' banner but this time reduced to just 'Theme'.

Finally, it made an appearance on the other LTM compilation 'New Order Presents Be Music' in 2017. It was now relabelled as 'Lavolta Lakota Theme' and credited solely to 'Peter Hook'.

For years, it was always assumed by most fans that it was the band in disguise as 'Be Music' (although the band members worked separately under that umbrella). However, that last release seems to indicate that Hooky was the only one who worked on it.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was the music the band 'Lavolta Lakota' walked on stage to, hence the new name. I think Hooky used to do their live sound and was where he pinched Dave Hicks from for Revenge.

Information about New Order is more interesting than New Order's actual music. You're out of my league. As I wrote on the other thread, I ''needed'' The Remix for the versions of Sister Ray, RIAD, Paradise and Blue Funday. I already had the rest and my equipment didn't affect the sound quality (ask my wife). As that beyond appalling Ruined never appeared anywhere else, certainly not on anything official, it's bound to be a ploy by the bootlegger. I never thought RIAD could sound any worse than in Sly and Robbie's hands. The funny part is that they were also involved in Grace Jones' She's Lost Control, and that was total and utter fucking shit too.

perspexorange wrote: Thanks for the info, both. Although I didn't have those exact cassettes, I certainly had some similar ones. It was great to finally get to hear some of those rarities (Homage, Video 5-8-6, Theme etc.). I also had some similar tapes that included all the various soundtrack variants.

I have that AIIWIW demo mentioned.

I also have a demo of BLT, with different lyrics. It's basically like those early live performances of the track ("You will take me by the hand and I won't leave you far behind", etc.). However, I'm not 100% convinced it isn't either a rehearsal or a soundcheck, as it has Bernard talking about the drum machine at the beginning.

It's labelled as a demo, but I guess that was probably the bootlegger 're-classifying' it to make it sound like something that might be of interest. Case in point, from the same period, I supposedly have demos of Paradise and Sub-Culture. I think I bought these thinking they would be different:

Paradise could be a demo, but is probably just soundcheck/rehearsal). Sub-Culture is just the RM Remix.

Fooled by the bootleggers, once again.

For those of you who haven't heard this BLT Soundcheck/Rehearsal ive uploaded it here .I'm sure its the same one you have mentioned Perspex. I ve got it labelled as "soundcheck" at the London Central Poly gig 06-12-1985.

https://we.tl/t-lc0s00LBsa

Thar's the cassette I had. Great Gigi AND sound check. Bet you never thought I'd say anything positive eh.

Atrocity wrote:

For those of you who haven't heard this BLT Soundcheck/Rehearsal ive uploaded it here .I'm sure its the same one you have mentioned Perspex. I ve got it labelled as "soundcheck" at the London Central Poly gig 06-12-1985.

https://we.tl/t-lc0s00LBsa

Thanks for this. I can confirm that this is the same as mine. And thanks for identifying the gig/soundcheck. That was something that I was planning to do this weekend. Well spotted!

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Thar's the cassette I had. Great Gigi AND sound check. Bet you never thought I'd say anything positive eh.

HaHa.

We all know, deep down, that you're a fan, Michael. But it's still great to hear you praise the band from time to time.

And you're right. Great gig and soundcheck. Any gig that has Procession, Sunrise and 5-8-6, alongside classics like AoC and TPK, is bloody good as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that's that out of the way. For Decades. Until A Later Date or a Blue Monday morning, night and day. Mine had the gig first but otherwisehttps://100greatestbootlegs.blogspot.com/2017/03/bootlegs-of-month-march-2107.html?m=1 . What a great sound check and gig setlist. The Perfect Kiss is pretty much the definitive take, plus they start with Atmosphere for the first time, and there's some classic between-song banter. Probably the best N O boot I had.

Fotz wrote: Never heard of that Masters Of Ceremony one or the Megatrax one but I think the disc pictured below that I have is the ON-USound one mentioned in that cutting at the end. Haven’t played it in years. From memory TPK, BLT and BM and maybe more are mega mixed on it and Bronksi Beat mixed in also or on the b side or something , really can’t remember without giving it a spin

I have this too, but with a blue label. I was never quite sure of its origin, so good to learn of it. It's a Bronski Beat mix on the B side. It's been so long since I played the New Order side I forget what's on there - but, oh wonders of the internet, seems liek it's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fy4OOaxxSKI

Yeah - my label is blue too.

I'm wondering if Fotz' copy has a blue label too. Might just be the flash on the camera making it appear white etc.

As I mentioned above, HMV Manchester had multiple copies of this on their shelves back in 1990. I always thought this a little odd, as it seemed fairly 'unofficial'.

I remember that I had pretty limited funds the day I spotted it and had the choice between this and the aforementioned Arthur Baker remixes of 'Confusion' (the ones on the 'Minimal' label). I opted for 'Confusion', but picked up this Megamix the following month at the same shop.

I have this Blue Order on CD:

https://www.discogs.com/fr/Various-The-Megamixes/release/596566

perspexorange wrote: Yeah - my label is blue too.

I'm wondering if Fotz' copy has a blue label too. Might just be the flash on the camera making it appear white etc.

Erm, nope. That very pale colour of the label in the photo is definitely the actual colour. And i didn’t use the flash on my phone camera. The label is a very very pale green(ish).

Yes I also bought that Minimal Records 12” release with the Confusion remixes sometime circa 1990.

Actually gave the Blue Order 12” a spin just now. Tracks mega mixed together are TBTHOG 12”, True Faith Pettibone remix ( heavily looped in places), BLT Pettibone 12”, Sub Culture Robie 12” , Round & Round ( Saunderson mix I think), BM original 83 and a snippet of The Beach and a looped “ tell me how/ tell me now/ tell me how/ tell me now” which is quite comical before finally a sudden jump into a brief section of TPK to finish.

Fotz wrote:

Erm, nope. That very pale colour of the label in the photo is definitely the actual colour. And i didn’t use the flash on my phone camera. The label is a very very pale green(ish).

Ah, cool. Thanks for confirming. Never seen one with any other colour than blue.

Actually, just checked Discogs.

They have both colours listed:

https://www.discogs.com/NO-BB-Blue-Order-Mega-mix-Bonus-Bronski-Beats/release/12191765 https://www.discogs.com/NO-BB-Blue-Order-Mega-mix-Bonus-Bronski-Beats/release/457170

I learn something new every day.

And, looking at Discogs, they've prohibited sale, so they must class 'em as bootlegs. Naughty old HMV, eh?

Actually I guess a very very pale turquoise rather than pale green?

For those of you who haven't heard this BLT Soundcheck/Rehearsal ive uploaded it here .I'm sure its the same one you have mentioned Perspex. I ve got it labelled as "soundcheck" at the London Central Poly gig 06-12-1985.

https://we.tl/t-lc0s00LBsa

Wow thanks for this - never heard this before, very strange hearing different lyrics (glad Barney changed them in the end). Do you think this could end up on the Box sets, sounds as good as some of the stuff on the first 2.

perspexorange wrote:

Whilst we're on the subject, of megamixes, I used to have a mix of Bizarre Love Triangle/Angel Dust on tape? Anybody remember that? I'm sure it wasn't that great, but it would be nice to hear it again, if anyone has it.

Managed to find a copy of this BLT/Angel Dust mix. As suspected, it's nothing to fax home about...

I would upload it, but I doubt anyone's particularly interested. However, if anyone does have a burning desire to hear it, just PM me.

By the way, I have some info on 'The Masters Of Ceremony' mix, courtesy of a friend.

It does exist and apparently, it is all New Order / Joy Division tracks (i.e. no other bands). From all accounts, it was made by a work colleague of the above friend, so is pretty much 'fan made', rather than produced by a 'remix company' (DMC, Razormaid etc.).

Not too fussed then. If you get into fan mixes, you never stop, and a lot of it's crap in the first place. Phased n Dazed, anyone? Still, thanks for sharing, as my mother says.

31 years after first reading about this mix in 'Record Collector', I've finally got hold of a copy of 'The Masters Of The Ceremony FAC. Mix'. Direct from the master tape no less.

And, it's...

Well, I'll let you be the judge of it.

I've uploaded it for all to hear...

https://we.tl/t-3CUJMlS1zH

Well, at least we got to hear it.

Big thanks to my friend who kindly shared it.

PS As I was uploading anyway, I've slung the BLT/Angel Dust remix in the same location.

Both files are FLACs, so relatively large, especially the Masters mix (489Mb).

Yeah, for obsessives only! Feels like I've been here before.

Just remembered... Around 2005 my mate had WinMX and he found a mix of BM with Thunderbirds. Anyone else heard that? Must be unofficial. As I said, I didn't hear Theme until relatively recently, and always assumed it was Homage. Yeah Hooky picked Hix from said band... By mistake! He thought it was the guy on the other side of the stage cos of the labelling. Apparently Hooky treated him quite badly and once got him to drink his piss. They certainly got better live and record reviews with Pottsy, though I remember a scathing NME review of the swansong with Northside.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Just remembered... Around 2005 my mate had WinMX and he found a mix of BM with Thunderbirds. Anyone else heard that? Must be unofficial.

Yeah. It's the 'Blue Monday (Re-Ordered)' Paul Dakeyne mix that's on this:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-October-86-Mixes-2/release/535586

It's got a tonne of other crap in it too (James Bond, Peter Gunn theme, South Pacific, Kraftwerk, The Professionals, Cutting Crew etc.).

Here it is:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Apparently Hooky treated him quite badly and once got him to drink his Pisa.9k

Sounds a bit like the Sarge incident that Hooky mentioned in his JD book. Pint of p**s / S**t Sandwich etc.

I also think that Hicks kind of wanted to be the lead singer, so I guess it just didn't work out. Either that or Hooky just fell out with him (it has been known).

Yeah, a bit silly. I love the way Hooky insisted Revenge was a democracy with equally important members, but he changed the line up, didn't put anyone else in the PF vid and put the whole thing on hold for Killing Joke. I'm sure CJ would've been granted the same largesse: :Hooky the Damned have reformed and want me in.' 'Sure, pal. I'll just twiddle me thumbs while you toddle off and do your thang. Let me know when you've finished.'

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, a bit silly. I love the way Hooky insisted Revenge was a democracy with equally important members, but he changed the line up, didn't put anyone else in the PF vid and put the whole thing on hold for Killing Joke. I'm sure CJ would've been granted the same largesse: :Hooky the Damned have reformed and want me in.' 'Sure, pal. I'll just twiddle me thumbs while you toddle off and do your thang. Let me know when you've finished.'

Yeah. They were partners. Just not equal partners.

I know I've said it before, but I liked Revenge. A lot. And they were just starting to write some really good material (Gun World Porn etc.) when the band was effectively dissolved for Hooky to join the others for 'Republic'.

After that LP was done, I honestly wish that Hooky would've carried on with Revenge, rather than the (IMO) weaker Monaco. (Although I will admit that 'What Do You Want From Me?' was bloody excellent).

Michael Monkhouse wrote: didn't put anyone else in the PF vid

I don't know about you, but when I'm planning on getting my arse caned by two leather-clad dommes, I tell my mates that I'll see them in the pub a bit later on.

Yeah, I remember reading you like Revenge. When I stopped laughing, I continued reading. Gun World Porn is a gem though, but I think of that as early Monaco rather than late Revenge. There was an overlap, but you know far more about this than me. The last one to feature the original lineup was White Light, which never seemed to climax... You're welcome to your opinion (this is English for You're wrong), but surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: didn't put anyone else in the PF vid

I don't know about you, but when I'm planning on getting my arse caned by two leather-clad dommes, I tell my mates that I'll see them in the pub a bit later on.

I'm saving myself up for when Mel C finally plucks up the courage to propose to me. I can't propose to her as it wouldn't be Girl Power.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

Possibly. But M4P has got that mid-to-late 90s feel to it. OK, there are Hook's distinctive basslines, but the rest just sounds a bit generic. In a lot of places, it's probably not a hell of a lot different to albums by Dodgy and Cast released around that time.

I did like it a lot when I first got it and played it to death. So much so, I remember that I pretty much sang along to the entire setlist at the band's Wolves Civic appearance (sad, eh?).

Nowadays, apart from the three singles (WDYWFM?, Sweet Lips, Shine), I can't remember how any of the others tracks actually sound. Let alone remember lyrics. I don't think I've listened to it for 20 years (unless I've slung it on once, then promptly forgot it).

On the other hand, OTP, I remember well and play it regularly (which, I guess, partly explains why I remember it ). I know it's not to everyone's taste, but it does sound fairly unique (IMO) and doesn't fall into the trap of sounding like any other LP from the same time period.

Maybe if I gave M4P another spin, things might come back to me and I'll end up liking it again. But, often, when I start thinking about revisiting the 'solo projects', I just keep going back to OTP and the first Electronic LP.

The first Electronic LP is awesome. O know I've shared this shitloads, but my favourite review was, The only band to START with a Best Of. As for Revenge, I couldn't agree less. Well I could if I wanted to. OTP was largely considered a bad joke, especially after the double Whammy of Substance and Technique, and even superegotistical Hooky has practically disowned it. I like to think of 1997 as Hooky's return to form, both personally and professionally. Sometimes I think about the Spice Girls in the nude. Other times, I keep my clothes on for It.

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: surely M4P is light years ahead of One True Song?

it does sound fairly unique (IMO) and doesn't fall into the trap of sounding like any other LP from the same time period.

Yeah mate, that's how Fucking bad it is! It was only Tony Wanker's gratitude to Hook for staying with Fuckedtory that let it through in the first place. If anyone else had presented it, they'da been laughed outa the studio.

Revenge were bloody awful. Listened to some of Hooky’s interview on Liz Kershaw on Sunday. She started by going on about what an all round nice guy Hooky is , a top bloke . I thought bloody ell , you’re easily fooled , Liz.

Being a nice guy doesn't equal good music. Ask Cliff Richard.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, I remember reading you like Revenge. When I stopped laughing, I continued reading. ... You're welcome to your opinion (this is English for You're wrong)...

Haha! You've actually amused me here. Like a real comedian!

Fotz wrote: Revenge were bloody awful. Listened to some of Hooky’s interview on Liz Kershaw on Sunday. She started by going on about what an all round nice guy Hooky is , a top bloke . I thought bloody ell , you’re easily fooled , Liz.

Well she did vote for Brexit (and has lots of Brexiteer followers on twitter too). I probably shouldn't get into politics here...

PS In his defence, Hooky can be a nice guy. Sometimes.

I was kind of surprised by the Kershaw/Hooky interview.

She normally interrupts everyone to the point where it becomes embarrassing. But she kind of let Hooky talk.

To be fair, he’s a bit overpowering at times in terms of occupying the conversation too. Maybe she felt she met her match.

It seems I’m alone with my love of Revenge. Anyone able to agree with me?

Come on, ‘Jesus…I Love You’ is great. It’s a bit ‘overloaded’ granted, but it’s still damn good.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Cliff Richard, Liz Kershaw and P Hook all in the one thread! How low can it go?

Anyway, Revenge were probably the worst band I paid to see - just didn't have the tunes and wouldn't got off the ground if Wilson hadn't backed them. A vanity project much like all the others PH has had since to allow him to swing his balls centre stage and get his name in lights. Sorry Perspex just my opinion.

PS: there's a bass vacancy in The Cure now, hah.

perspexorange wrote: It seems I’m alone with my love of Revenge. Anyone able to agree with me?

Come on, ‘Jesus…I Love You’ is great. It’s a bit ‘overloaded’ granted, but it’s still damn good.

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

No, you're not alone. It was different here in the US. New Order had minimal chart success and Revenge was more of a college radio band. I love Jesus...I Love You and One True Passion - played the hell out of OTP during the summer of 1990. Pineapple Face was a club hit, and to me it felt like a continuation of Technique and WIM (as there was no new music coming from New Order proper). Didn't connect with anything on Gun World Porn, but fell in love with Music For Pleasure during the summer of 1997. I even like some of the self-titled follow-up from 2000.

tapebias wrote: Sorry Perspex just my opinion.

Hey, no problem! You’re wrong, of course!

tapebias wrote: PS: there's a bass vacancy in The Cure now, hah.

I was wondering about this. About time The Cure had the real thing, rather than a clone.

50poundnote wrote:

No, you're not alone. It was different here in the US. New Order had minimal chart success and Revenge was more of a college radio band. I love Jesus...I Love You and One True Passion - played the hell out of OTP during the summer of 1990. Pineapple Face was a club hit, and to me it felt like a continuation of Technique and WIM (as there was no new music coming from New Order proper). Didn't connect with anything on Gun World Porn, but fell in love with Music For Pleasure during the summer of 1997. I even like some of the self-titled follow-up from 2000.

Thank you! Glad I’m not alone.

Jesus, I Love You, Pineapple Face, Big Bang, 14K, Slave, Fag Hag, Bleachman. All great tunes (but mostly lousy names).

I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD... but have to say Monaco is better.

And having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

Revenge were bolox - shoddy, rushed, unfocussed and essentially just an excuse for Hooky to tour, indulge his ego and dabble in some seriously dodgy and arguably sexist imagery. Tony Wilted was just grateful to Hooky cos New Order were by far his biggest band, and Hook had always been the most loyal when they were approached by richer labels. Still, interesting that the Yanks might've felt differently - I read that PF was a minor club hit and some of the remixes were an improvement. But you can't polish a turd. Unless you're doing anal. Fucking shit. Now MFP is far more accomplished and possibly the best thing to come out of Hook and even New Order, after Electronic. The followup is essentially a bleached out carbon copy, though It's A Boy has sentimental value. I listen to it pissed with my wife.

Mr. Disco wrote: I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD... but have to say Monaco is better.

And having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

Mr. Disco wrote: I also like Revenge, and have everything released in CD...]

Good man! That JILY CD single is easily one of my most played CDs.

Mr. Disco wrote: having met the man himself a few times through the years, also have to say he was abolutely delightful, really nice and humble every single time, even when I handed him a lot of things to sign. As they all were, to be honest... I think I can consider myself lucky since the adage "never met your heroes" doesn't seem to apply to my case

I’m glad he was pleasant when you met him.

Sadly, as I’ve probably said before, I met him at that aforementioned Wolves Monaco gig and he was a right tool with me. So much so, that it kind of put me off the band for a while. Stupid, eh?

So, the old adage of ‘never meeting your heroes’ certainly rang true with me.

However, I think this was smack bang in the middle of Hooky’s ‘cokehead / fighting Mrs Merton’s boyfriend days’, so I’m sure I didn’t see him at his best.

He seems a lot more pleasant these days.

No it ain't stoopid. A very small group of us waited for John Lydon after a PIL gig and he walked straight past us and into the car without a first, let alone second glance and it put me off him, especially as he's always going on about being anti the star system. Must've been a bad day cos I've read positive things about his attitude to fans. Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be. Maybe it's just marketing cos his New Order antics have put people off and he's hardly creating tons of new material.

Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be.

I think he admits it in one of the books?

Yeah, 'I Admit I Used To Be An Arsehole But I'm Not Now'.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

Mr. Disco wrote:

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

Hmm, I'm not sure I knew it was a cover version. If I ever did know, I've since forgotten.

Side-tracking a bit (which is what this thread seems to be doing a lot of ; not that that's a problem, of course!), I never really liked 'It's Alright'. It always seemed to be a bit 'normal'.

Thinking back, I think this is the point where my interest in the PSBs started to wane, never to be fully reignited.

Apart from 'So Hard', 'This Must Be The Place' and one or two others on 'Behaviour', I thought the LP was a bit 'meh'.

'Very' was pretty poor, IMO, with the lads just reusing the 'Go West' formula repeatedly. 'Can You Forgive Her' was the only bright spot for me.

By 'Bilingual', I really couldn't care less about the band.

It's a shame really, as their early stuff was just so DAMN good! 'Actually' is in my Top 10 LPs of all time, and 'Please' was 70% excellent.

It's one of those covers that's actually more famous than the original. Yeah I kinda went off the Pets then. Introspective only had two original songs and they held It's Alright back six months for a tour gimmick. Miliking it... Then there was a long break with just that dodgy, assmunching Liza Minelli thing, which was also largely oldies. Like New Order, I could recite the back catalogue up to a point, and worse still did, but then ..

Andy wrote: Since this is more interesting to me than the original topic, I'll chime in...

I liked the first single 7 Reasons, probably because it sounded like a rewrite of Run. And as mentioned above, we weren't expecting a Technique followup anytime soon. The b-sides set the stage for my opinion of Revenge. The instrumental Bleach Boy (an updated version of compilation track Wende) was far better than the vocal version, Bleachman that was on the LP. I also prefered the dub Love You Too over the standard version of Jesus...I Love You as Hooky's vocals are stilted and awkward.

I also prefer the instrumental Pineapple Face Calls it a Day (unlisted on the cover but track 6 on the US CD single) to all other versions. The US version also contains a totally different version of Pineapple Face's Big Day that is more of an extended remix in the LP style as opposed to the housey mix of the same name on the Factory CD single. The b-side, 14k is a good track, though. Probably better that much of the LP.

Speaking of One True Passion, the LP starts promisingly enough with Pineapple Face, and Big Bang is even better. It might be my favourite Revenge track so I was disappointed to find that the remix (renamed The Trouble with Girls) was totally redone with cheesy female backing vocals. Kiss the Chrome is musically aimless and generic and exists as merely a vehicle for Hooky's lyrics and vocals. Not to my taste. I can see why Slave was chosen to be a single but it would have benefitted from being more funky in an electro style (like Confusion '87). It just sounds stiff to me. The hip-hop mixes are embarrasing. I remember liking the Die Warsaw Alternative Mix at the time but again, it would be better as an instrumental. The Joe Smooth Extended Mix is probably the definitive version of the song for me. After Bleachman, with it's stupid lyrics comes Surf Nazi, a duet between Hooky and Dave. Dreadful and embarrasing. Things improve for Fag Hag, one of the LP's better tracks. It actually has a decent chorus and melody (though the pirate intro is lame)! Vying for favourite with Big Bang is closer It's Quiet. It shows the depth and range Revenge were capable of it only Hooky hadn't been rushing to get an LP in the shops before Bernard.

Gun World Porn was a strange release as it was heavily altered and edited, as if they couldn't decide which versions of the songs would work. The original mix of Deadbeat is a nice blend of guitary New Order and chunky Pineapple Face synths. But the trendy Gary Clail Remix was the version that was pushed. Cloud Nine shows that they were putting more thought and effort into these tracks than before. There are more elements to this song than their early works yet the arrangements sound more natural. State of Shock reminds me of Kiss the Chrome in that it's a bit dopey but is musically better. In fact, GWP overall has a better, less clunky feel musically than OTP. The closer (opener on the US release) Little Pig is one of their best and again is a mix of New Order's guitar styled songs and Pineapple Face, yet it's different and catchy enough to set it apart from the darker Deadbeat.

But I prefer Monaco...

'14K' is a great track and 'Big Bang' is probably my favourite on the actual LP. I agree with your comments about 'Kiss The Chrome'. Not very good really, and I understand why it got relegated to the bonus disc on Version 2.0 of the LP. I'm not sure why they decided to relegate 'Fag Hag' rather than 'Surf Nazi' though. I agree that the former is a much better track.

Talking of V2.0, although I think it's a pretty great compilation, I was always annoyed with the shuffling of tracks. I can see why they re-edited / remixed some of the tracks, but shifting the running order just seemed bit superfluous to me. As someone who knows the LP pretty well, it grates on me a bit to suddenly shift from, say, 'Slave' to '14K'. I just wish they'd kept the album in the same order and added the bonus tracks on the end.

As regards the mixes, the Pineapple Face one was particularly confusing. It was difficult enough to keep track of the stuff with all the PF's Big Day/Big Day Out/Last Lunge/Revenge/Calls It A Day naming method without all the confusion with having two completely different versions of Big Day (by different remixers, IIRC).

The 'Slave' ones are just as confusing, as there's a load more edits, single mixes etc., with different naming methods used also.

As for the remixes themselves, I think they were generally pretty decent. I also quite like that daft ansaphone rap thing on the main UK remix of 'Slave'. I'm sure I'm alone in that though.

The 'Gun World Porn' EP was great, but I always felt the UK got shafted with that release. Although, probably a more streamlined version, I felt we missed having those extra mixes, including the non-Clail version of 'Deadbeat'. We did get the full-length 'State Of Shock' on the UK CD single though.

Talking of which, 'State Of Shock' is wonderful, IMHO.

The Trouble With Revenge (see what I did there?) was

1. They just chucked every sound in. I agree with Claud.Flowers that the edits were more streamlined, hence better.
2. They are total and utter fucking shit.
3. The lyrics are always reaching for some grandiose statement with topics like religion, the universe, passion etc. With 14K Hooky said he was learning to write simpler, more effective trax. I'd rate It's Quiet over JILY, which is just a mess. Yeah, some of the remixes were better. Ron St Germaine, who worked on Jimi Hendrix, did the best PF, and there were plenty of Slave takes, but the rap version was a bit silly. I'm convinced that Pottsy is the superior.writer: nio one holds or plays a bass like Hooky, but his singing-songwriting skills are a tad dubious. And how could we forget Freebass? I actually didn't mind the album, but the EP was crap.

Funny thing... I regard the EP as being vastly superior to the album. And the album being superior do the Bad Losetennant album by a country mile. Bernard's worst effort so far IMHO.

Big Bang (and the remix) remains my favourite Revenge track to the day.

The EP was fairly horrible and compared to Spinale Tap on these very forums. I didn't mind the LP, but it's down with Super Gayways as the one I know least. Even after my obsessive phase wore off, there've been albums I know inside out through dint of listening. Cun't really comment on these. BL is a curate's egg and the first line was beyond groansome, but there are enuff gems to make it worthwhile. Runaway is cuntender for.Bernard's loveliest moment, alongside Some Distant Mammary and Wanking Off The Sirens' Call.

my anti hooky stance applies to his music. i have a ton of stuff from revenge. but now i can't stand to listen to any of it.

i might have liked it back then, and even now the EP is ok.

but i don't see the point of listening to any of his side projects at all.

the new order stuff will always overshadow it.

later -1

I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single, and I had a theory that Pumpkin / Microbes would've been its Bside a la Technique. I'm not sure it would've reversed Revenge's chart record of sweet Fanny Adams though.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once read that Kiss The Chrome was cuntsidered as the third album single

I heard that too. I was convinced that I'd heard there were white label promos of it, but there's nothing on Discogs. Weird.

I think 'Big Bang' would've made a far better single.

Hook has always said that he never liked releasing singles from LPs. Seems doubtful that they would've released three.

Also, I doubt Wilson would've promoted a third, considering how Hook describes in his book that 'Revenge' almost bankrupted Factory. I guess that the dual hits of World In Motion/Step On helped to mitigate the financially disastrous OTP.

Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic. I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.

I lost track of the Pet Shop Boys for a long period of time after the Very album in 1993( that album does have some great songs IMO like Young Offennder, Yesterday When I Was Mad and the fantastic Beatmasters remix for the single release of I Wouldn’t Normally Do This Kind Of Thing ). But I never listened to the albums Bilingual (1996),Nightlife (1999) and Release( 2002) until the mid to late 2000s. Each of those albums does have one or two absolutely cracking songs though like Se a Vida E( That’s The Way Life Is) , Single Bilingual and Red Letter Day from Bilingual, I Don’t Know What You Want But I Can’t Give It Anymore and You Only Tell Me You Love Me When You’re Drunk from Nightlife and Home And Dry and London from Release.

The Fundamental album from 2006 has some great songs if you give the album time but maybe that time has long past. Top songs on that one for me are I Made My Excuses And Left, Numb, Luna Park, Cassanova In Hell and Indefinite Leave To Remain.

The Yes album from 2009 has some great songs like King Of Rome and The Way It Used To Be but like their late 90s /early 2000s albums and Elysium (2012), Electric (2013) and Super (2016) they’re rare diamonds amongst the other album tracks. Their most recent album Hotspot (2019 I think ?) was their worst by far for me, absolutely no songs I liked in any shape or form.

Love Is A Bourgeois Construct from the Electric album is fabulous late period PSB. Breathing Space, Memory Of The Future, Leaving and Winner are the stand outs for me from Elysium. On Super I’d say Twenty Something the stand out song.

Then of course there are the countless remix albums and live stuff. The Concrete live album is really good.

I think I only became aware It’s Alright is a cover version sometime relatively recently, maybe in the last 10 years.

The Pets are one of those bands I just kinda lost interest in. I had the same thing with New Order circa 1996. It was a combination of getting too old for teenage obsessions, difficulty tracking down info and releases, and London's policy of accompanying every new album with six billion rerererereleases, especially when the newbies were as bland as The Other Spew or Erase The Pressure. I'm surprised a fan hasn't even heard Gun World Porn, given that we're hardly talking Beatle productivity. Macca alone has been involved in around 1500 tracks so I'll forgive myself for not knowing them all inside out. Hooky's been retreading the same shit for 15 years and New Order have managed a grand total of one song in the last six years. I counted. Three times. All those total and utter pricks who think Tony Wilson was a genius should be forced to listen to OTP on replay in a cold, dark room. What a dick head.

negative1 wrote:

the new order stuff will always overshadow it.

later -1

Yeah but you can still enjoy it. Macca's never cum close to late Beatles, but I still listen to his stuff. I hereby promise to stop clogging these forums up with references to other bands. It's what I want, what I really really want to stop right now, thank you very much. Too much of one thing is bad enough. Makes me wanna holler. Let love lead the way, say you will be there. Who do you think you are? Goodbye, my friend.

Fotz wrote: Yikes this thread has gone way , way off from the original topic.

It has a bit, but it’s all good. It’s nice to have a thread get a fair few responses to it,

Fotz wrote: I haven’t a clue what most of these Revenge tracks and remixes you’re all talking about are. I never heard the Gun World Porn album, wasn’t the release a bit weird or non existent in the UK at one time or something? I’ve no idea and not interested in finding out either.

The Gun World Porn EP did get a full UK release, such as these were on Factory.

As I mentioned earlier, the UK release only had four tracks, one for each song. The version of ‘Deadbeat’ was a remix too. The US release had seven tracks, with both the original and remix of ‘Deadbeat’, two bonus remixes of ‘State Of Shock’ and the version of ‘Little Pig’ was a different mix to the UK.

So it did kind of feel like our version was nerfed a bit.

You should give GWP a listen, Fotz. Most people I’ve spoken to seem to find it the best stuff the band did. It’s pretty good.

Yeah, even better than Bleachman. How do they do it? What's their secret? I guess we'll never know. As I've said and then again, I'm surprised Fotz hasn't even tried It, out of curiosity. It's fine but more Monaco than Revenge, Who overlapped some tracks. I didn't hear the original Deadbeat till 1998 and assumed the Clail mix was the 'proper' One.I was introduced to Regret through a remix too and thought Fire Island was theirs, partly cos it was previewed on Radio 1 and partly cos I was used to Factory starting with the full version on 12" with an edited or no 7", as opposed to London taking standard length and handing it over to external DJs.

Just remembered I used to have the US 12" of State of Shock, just the disc, no sleeve (cant remember what happened). Got rid of it when I've purchased the CD, assuming it would feature all versions. Later on, I hoped the LTM release of One True Passion V2.0 would bring back the extended mix of Little Pig, but it remains exclusive to the 12" I guess?

https://www.discogs.com/Revenge-State-Of-Shock-Little-Pig/release/884283

Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:

https://www.discogs.com/release/4958630

I'd forgotten all about this mix. I do have it as mp3, but Heaven knows where / when I acquired it. Just listening to it now. Not bad at all.

perspexorange wrote: Following your link, it appears that the Extended Mix of 'Little Pig' is also on this promo:

https://www.discogs.com/release/4958630

Nice find!

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Three cassettes I picked up at a record fair in 1992. The most interesting was the first cos it had 586 Pts One and Two, Haystack, Homage and the Hassie flexidisc. There's a tracklisting here but it doesn't specify which versions https://www.discogs.com/New-Order-Demos-Outakes-Rarities/release/7935833 . The funny part is that I thought Haystack had a woman on vocals so it was an old Inadequates track! I was right about the flexi tracks, and assumed 586 was an early version (half-right) and Homage an old demo (right again). Record Mirror and An Ideal For Living proved invaluable back then. The best part about the second one was Let's Go / Waiting for so long, which was also the best part of the third one! Milking it, really, but I'm sure there were two megamixes on there.

Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from - or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Late followup (Too Late?) but the other interesting part on the second One was a unique Sister Ray. When I read the RM article, I assumed it was the Like A Girl... version but it ain't. It the one Bernard introduces as an old JD song and invites Steve to give a beat - 'Beautiful, beautiful...' The bass is way too high as usual and at the end, Hooky shows off for two minutes, presumably after the others have fucked off. No idea where it's from

Although I don't have the bootleg you mentioned, I believe 'Sister Ray' is from Malvern Winter Gardens, 03/10/86.

I have that gig on my hard-drive, and it matches up with what you've said above.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

• or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.

Hmmm. Not sure about this one. If I can find the CD, I'll try and match it what I have Should be easy. The only problem might be locating the CD.

Thanks. If it matches, 99 per cent bound to be that one, cos that was when the gigs were unique. As I said, l assumed the bootlegger had used an official recording, so that grotesquely-titled and -packaged Like A Girl was the obvious choice. I don't have access to the Remix boot so I can't offer any more info, but I'd be interested in what you find. Come to think (that's my brain in reverse), I had four SRs, all different and semi-improv'd: Still BBC Radio 1 Demos, Out-takes and Rarities (always assumed it was Like A Girl cos they tended to be official but rare sources e g. Discreet Campaigns or Record Mirror. Surprised the bootlegger took the trouble to dig out a live track due to its rarity value. The only other glaring omission from these was Theme, so I confused it with Homage) Oz's Live and Dangerous Mix, which obviously wasn't a mix but the compiler's label, presumably so it'd tie in with the others on a 'Remix' CD

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

• or the Oz's Live and Dangerous 'Mix' on that 'The Remix' boot I mentioned above.

Hmmm. Not sure about this one. If I can find the CD, I'll try and match it what I have Should be easy. The only problem might be locating the CD.

So I finally found my 'The Remix' CD.

Pretty sure that 'Oz's Live and Dangerous Mix' of 'Sister Ray' is the one from Ibirapuera, São Paulo, Brazil, 01/12/88, which is also featured on the 'Like A Girl...' compilation. Not sure if it's any different from the version on the original CD.

If you think about it, it makes sense that it would've been ripped from a legitimate source (rather than a live bootleg), as pretty much all of the other tracks were taken from official sources, albeit hard-to-find ones.

Incidentally, the Extended Mix of Run 2 is a bit different to the standard 12" version. It has a 'record played backwards' type sound at the start. No doubt this is another bit added by the compiler to make it seem different (thereby encouraging punters to buy it).

perspexorange wrote:

If you think about, it makes sense that it would've been ripped from a legitimate source (rather than a live bootleg), as pretty much all of the other tracks were taken from official sources, albeit hard-to-find ones.

Yeah, that's what I thought. So it's weird that the Demos, Outtakes and Rarities did that cos the others were 'under-released' i.e. Record Mirror, Discreet Campaigns etc. Cheers for checking that out. I wanted to try my copy of 'The Remix' but the channel's in the way.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Cheers for checking that out. I wanted to try my copy of 'The Remix' but the channel's in the way.

No problem. I enjoyed digging it out. Although I have most of the stuff on other discs and sometimes in better quality, I'm quite impressed with what was on the disc.

I remember at the time, I only had the soundtrack versions on a dodgy bootleg cassette, so it was nice to get on CD. Was also good to get the Racic mix of Paradise on CD too.

I think the DJ Only mix of Blue Monday 1988 is a bit longer than the version on vinyl (7:38 compared to 7:19). However, I suspect it's just running a bit slow, rather than being a slightly different version.

Cool. Sorry to repeat myself (actually I'm not. Some people molest goats) but I remember buying that at a record fair in Cambridge in 1995. I 'needed' it for Paradise, Ruined, BM and Sister Ray. Ruined must be by the bootlegger to con buyers. I'd just cum back from my year out (think Erasmus without the fucking) and had a lot of money by my standards so I had a lot of fun tracking down what I'd missed e.g. the 1963 12". Then I actually heard it and it wasn't fun at all. Does Lioncock have a single sec of NO? In fact, the glut of remixes alongside these solo projects that were doing FA was one of the reasons my passion faded. Until Rest Of, I could recite the entire back catalogue and, sadly, did. I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: the glut of remixes alongside these solo projects that were doing FA was one of the reasons my passion faded. Until Rest Of, I could recite the entire back catalogue and, sadly, did.

Yep. I've said it before too (many times) that the whole Republic/Best Of/Rest Of remixes and the band's 'not giving a shit' attitude (who could blame them) really killed my passion in the mid-nineties.

I still dabbled in 'new' New Order (for instance, I loved Crystal, Here To Stay and the Apollo '98 gig), but I generally took a huge break from the band. In fact the whole thing kind of soured me towards the old material too. I guess I thought, if the band couldn't be arsed, why should I? (daft I know).

I always loved the old stuff deep down, but just rarely seemed to listen to it, and found myself listening to bands like The Chameleons, The Comsat Angels and The Sound far more than NO.

It wasn't really until the reformation in 2011 that I started to get pretty keen on the band once again.

Yeah, I've never cum close to the level of passion I had in the early 90s. There are whole albums I can't comment on - Super Highgays and Freebass - and a ton of mixes I haven't even heard. By Get Ready I had very little interest and bought it more out of curiosity than anything else. O enjoyed it but felt there was a dip in the second half. I got interested again around Wanking For the Sirens' Call, partly cos it was the internet explosion so it was fun to find info, partly cos I was under a lot of stress and I needed a hobby. But God, I'll never go back to the obsessiveness of my youth.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: No it ain't stoopid. A very small group of us waited for John Lydon after a PIL gig and he walked straight past us and into the car without a first, let alone second glance and it put me off him, especially as he's always going on about being anti the star system. Must've been a bad day cos I've read positive things about his attitude to fans. Hooky has changed totally from the arsehole he used to be. Maybe it's just marketing cos his New Order antics have put people off and he's hardly creating tons of new material.

Slightly off topic but I once saw David Bad Eel and he refused to give an autograph. I was miffed but later realised he was doing the right thing cos it was an Eddie Izzard singing session and he didn't want to steal the star's thunder. Celeb etiquette. Cos I met him on another occasion and he gave me his autograph, no prob. I once met Cameron Diaz. People say, Was it weird, suddenly face to face with this gorgeous, stunning, sexy, millionaire superstar? Yes, it was. But after the initial nerves, she calmed down. I'm just like everyone else, really.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.

I believe that was a Lemonheads 'remix', not NO. And on a point of up-my-arse pedantry, Aphex Twin is singular.

Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.

I believe that was a Lemonheads 'remix', not NO. And on a point of up-my-arse pedantry, Aphex Twin is singular.

Yeah, the other night I did a show and afterwards someone said, 'Me and my mate think you're a fucking cunt.' I was so shocked - because it's 'My mate and I'. The mixes were fine in the Fucktory years cos they stayed fairly true to the originals sand even if they didn't, it felt like the band was involved cos they'd launch into them live. The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.

Yep. London probably guessed that they weren't going to get any further new material out of the band and wanted to maximise their return.

I guess the lack of impetus of the band to produce new stuff was tempered with the fact that London had acquired the band's very enviable back catalogue, and could milk this for all its worth.

So, first off they release four singles off the (IMO patchy) 'new' LP. Remixed these to death, spreading the various mixes over multiple formats, including two CDs per single (except Regret).

Then, after fully exhausting 'Republic', they moved onto the back catalogue: Studio LP reissues, Best Of, Rest Of, True Faith-94, 1963-95, Blue Monday-95, International etc.

Oh, and Joy Division reissues - studio LPs, Permanent, Love Will Tear Us Apart-95 etc.

I bet they made a shed load of money. Both London and the band. Probably paid for Bernard's yacht.

I know we've all discussed this at length, but this really was a definite low in the band's history.

Yeah, the only reason for Rest Of was wonga. New Order signed a three-album cuntract with London but as usual they were having their cack and eating it cos it included one they'd already finished (repubelick) and a compilation 'Substance 2' (released as the Best Of). If the band had been arsed to wtite something new, London wouldn't've put this crap out.

perspexorange wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: The remix madness started with London for one simple reason. Money.

Yep. London probably guessed that they weren't going to get any further new material out of the band and wanted to maximise their return.

I guess the lack of impetus of the band to produce new stuff was tempered with the fact that London had acquired the band's very enviable back catalogue, and could milk this for all its worth.

So, first off they release four singles off the (IMO patchy) 'new' LP. Remixed these to death, spreading the various mixes over multiple formats, including two CDs per single (except Regret).

Then, after fully exhausting 'Republic', they moved onto the back catalogue: Studio LP reissues, Best Of, Rest Of, True Faith-94, 1963-95, Blue Monday-95, International etc.

Oh, and Joy Division reissues - studio LPs, Permanent, Love Will Tear Us Apart-95 etc.

I bet they made a shed load of money. Both London and the band. Probably paid for Bernard's yacht.

I know we've all discussed this at length, but this really was a definite low in the band's history.

it might have been a low for you. but i loved electronica, and a lot of those fit in.

great for collectors too.

the blue monday 95 mixes, had some great ones, like from hardfloor.

i was glad to see them revisit the classics, while not much else was going on.

but republic was a lowpoint for albums, for me though.

later -1

It was difficunt to get excited about something that was so patently about money first and quality second. It was a triple loss - no New Order, rip-off rereleases, and these much touted solo projects were hardly knocking em out either.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: It was difficunt to get excited about something that was so patently about money first and quality second. It was a triple loss - no New Order, rip-off rereleases, and these much touted solo projects were hardly knocking em out either.

Agreed.

negative1 wrote:

the blue monday 95 mixes, had some great ones, like from hardfloor.

Yep. To be fair, I quite liked the Blue Monday-95 mixes too OK, so nothing was going to beat the original classic and The Beach (possibly the band's best remix?), but there was much to enjoy in the remixes. Especially the Hardfloor ones.

On a similar note, the Confusion remixes from 2002 were even better. I really like those.

Apart from those two exceptions (plus maybe one or two others), I was not fussed by the post-Factory remixes, which all seemed like a massive cash-grab.

Yeah, the Hardfloor and Jam n Spoon mixes were strong, but as I said, it was all about money. I used to have a cassette compilation of every song that only included remixes if they had (a) totally different music and (b) the full vocal. That whole 94 - 95 shitstorm only produced three trax - True Faith Perfecto, 1963 Baker and BM Jam and Spoon. The rest can suck my donkey's balls.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, the Hardfloor and Jam n Spoon mixes were strong, but as I said, it was all about money. I used to have a cassette compilation of every song that only included remixes if they had (a) totally different music and (b) the full vocal. That whole 94 - 95 shitstorm only produced three trax - True Faith Perfecto, 1963 Baker and BM Jam and Spoon. The rest can suck my donkey's balls.

Why do they have to have totally different music? BM was a "track" rather than a song in the first place (according to Bernard). Removing all of the "track" and just keeping the vocals doesn't necessaily make a good remix. The Hardfloor remix of BM was the best remix to come out of that period, precisely because it kept the original track largely intact but added a tough acid/techno kick to it. I was a fan of Jam & Spoon's Tripomatic Fairytale stuff, but if you think Jam & Spoon did better remixes of BM than Hardfloor, well you're just wrong!

Nope, I didn't say it was better. In the words of Sylvia Plath, I like them both the same. Back then my major interest in life, after beer and Razzle Readers' Wives, was New Order. When I went to uni, I couldn't drag all the vinyl up with me, so - yes, I know it's sad - I made a list of every track and taped the lot. To make it worthwhile, I used a double criterion of radically different music (no pointless 7" edits) and a full vocal (no anonymous dubs). So I liked Hardfloor but didn't consider it sufficiently interesting for inclusion. No one gives a fuck.

PS Totally agree that the best remixes stay faithful to the originals but add oomph: World Perfecto, Spooky Stadium, ITYS on Lost Sirens. The worst are too different (A van Hardon's BLT) or too similar (TF 7"). I wouldn't say Hardfloor is worse - I Just felt it was too close to the original to warrant inclusion, while Manuela offered something 'new'. The point of my collection was to strip past all the off-shoots and get to the actual songs. No one gives a fuck.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: ...Razzle Readers' Wives

This made me laugh. So thanks for that. A blast from the past.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

No one gives a fuck.

I do. Sounds like a reasonable reason to cull/keep certain tracks.

Well, yeah. I couldn't see the point in filling a side with Shep Craplyboned's five BLTs (I'm including the video version) when they're all similar and like the original but not as good. It was fairly plain sailing till Repubblica, which threw up: Regret 7" and Fire Island Ruined LP, K-Klarse, Ambient, Dance Anal Groove Vicious Circle NO World Perfecto, Brothers in Jism, K-Klass Spooky Stadium, Minimix, the first one on the second CD! Ev Ev NOStory 2nd side as it is (mainly crap) The 94-5 period only gave the three I mentioned After Raise the Pisser, it all fell apart cos I was living outside the UK and there was very little Net. Plus I just couldn't be arsed any more. Razzle was awesome. Really honest: here's a vagina so knock one out. My personal favourite was 'Welcome to another awesome issue. We know it's awesome, we haven't seen the editor's hands above the desk for three weeks... Coming next month? Buy Razzle and make sure.' I genuinely think that Playboy is more misogynistic cos it tells you it's respectable to lust after a woman you have no interest in. Dodgy. And this year's award for deviating furthest goes to...

On the subject of porno mags, i heard or read something recently that Whitehouse porn mag chose that name to wind up Mary Whitehouse.Found that quite amusing.

Talk about going off topic...

Fotz wrote: On the subject of porno mags, i heard or read something recently that Whitehouse porn mag chose that name to wind up Mary Whitehouse.Found that quite amusing.

That's pretty amusing. And the sort of thing I'd have done if I ran a porno empire.

Fotz wrote: Talk about going off topic...

Michael Monkhouse wrote: And this year's award for deviating furthest goes to...

'Deviation' is definitely the word to use here.

That is fucking awesome. Good for them. Used porn. Second hand job. Teens have it too easy these days what with this Interwebby thing. I used to go on long walks in the woods for just one Page. In the meantime I'd grab anything with my free hand... My worst ever was Mel C on TFI Friday. The pause function went off just before I did, and I shot my wad all over Chris Evans. But no use crying over spilt milk... Plus there was real shame attached to porn. It meant you were a perv and a misogynist, rather than a normal teen discovering what he really really wants. How the fuck did this thread end up here? Porn forum. Some threads may be sticky.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I couldn't see the point in filling a side with Shep Craplyboned's five BLTs (I'm including the video version)

Bringing the conversation back down to Earth and replacing unnecessary talk of actual porn with a discussion on discographical porn, technically there are 7 Shep Pettibone versions of 'Bizarre Love Triangle' - 8 including the video version you mentioned, all of which I own:

• 12" • 7" • Dub 12" • Dub 7" • Canadian "Remixed & Edited" 7" • Qwest 7" Edit • Extended Edit • Video Edit

Pointless? Yes? Collectable? Very. Versions I've mostly listened to? 12" and 7" of course!

Mr Discography wrote:

Bringing the conversation back down to Earth

To be honest, this conversation has meandered through so many subjects, I'm fulling expecting us to be discussing economic policy adopted in the Far East by page 4. :-)

Mr Discography wrote:

• 12" • 7" • Dub 12" • Dub 7" • Canadian "Remixed & Edited" 7" • Qwest 7" Edit • Extended Edit • Video Edit

Hmm. I think I know most of those and must have copies of them, I guess. But I'm struggling to identify whether I have the Qwest 7" Edit. How long is this mix, and where is it taken from? Is it about 3:25 and is it also the one that's on the 'Threesome' soundtrack?

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

• 12" • 7" • Dub 12" • Dub 7" • Canadian "Remixed & Edited" 7" • Qwest 7" Edit • Extended Edit • Video Edit

Hmm. I think I know most of those and must have copies of them, I guess. But I'm struggling to identify whether I have the Qwest 7" Edit. How long is this mix, and where is it taken from? Is it about 3:25 and is it also the one that's on the 'Threesome' soundtrack?

Yes, it's the version on the 'Threesome' soundtrack. I was consciously avoiding mentioning that though, knowing the title of the film would be a red rag to a bull for Mr Bob Monkhouse. Cue some random response about two members of a shite nineties girl band...

About Threesome, I think I've seen it only once.

I've recently seen Something Wild and American Psycho after many decades. Great movies!

Mr Discography wrote:

Yes, it's the version on the 'Threesome' soundtrack.

Thanks. Nice to know I haven't missed a variant.

Jcp7 wrote: About Threesome, I think I've seen it only once.

I've recently seen Something Wild and American Psycho after many decades. Great movies!

Never seen 'Threesome', but it doesn't really appeal.

I also have never seen 'American Psycho'. I keep meaning to as I've heard it's pretty good (although there's a part of me that thinks I might be reminded a bit too much of the whole True Faith/Luka Magnotta thing).

I saw 'Something Wild' decades ago, but seem to think it was a fun romp and I think I enjoyed it. It has a kind of a 'Risky Business' vibe to it, doesn't it? WIth the lead character being led astray into shady waters.

Of those 1980s films with New Order on the soundtrack, my favourite would definitely be 'Pretty In Pink', which I think is a good little movie. It's certainly better than 'Salvation!' anyway.

Digressing again. Maybe this thread should just be our 'random crap' thread.

American Psycho is excellent. Couldn't recall NO being in it, but that probably wouldnt be up there as a reason to watch.

Anyway, American Psycho is 5/5, especially if you are a Phil Collins or Huey Lewis fan.

tapebias wrote: American Psycho is excellent. Couldn't recall NO being in it, but that probably wouldnt be up there as a reason to watch.

Anyway, American Psycho is 5/5, especially if you are a Phil Collins or Huey Lewis fan.

Thanks. I will check it out sometime.

And, yeah, True Faith is definitely in it, right at the beginning, very prominently played in a nightclub.

I haven't seen the film, but I have seen that clip (for obvious reasons).

tapebias wrote: Couldn't recall NO being in it, but that probably wouldnt be up there as a reason to watch.

TF during the nightclub scene.

Mr Discography wrote:

perspexorange wrote:

Mr Discography wrote:

• 12" • 7" • Dub 12" • Dub 7" • Canadian "Remixed & Edited" 7" • Qwest 7" Edit • Extended Edit • Video Edit

Hmm. I think I know most of those and must have copies of them, I guess. But I'm struggling to identify whether I have the Qwest 7" Edit. How long is this mix, and where is it taken from? Is it about 3:25 and is it also the one that's on the 'Threesome' soundtrack?

Yes, it's the version on the 'Threesome' soundtrack. I was consciously avoiding mentioning that though, knowing the title of the film would be a red rag to a bull for Mr Bob Monkhouse. Cue some random response about two members of a shite nineties girl band...

Don't worry mate. After reading 50poundnote's comment I decided to cut any humour round these parts. I can take criticism but that one was just spiteful and vicious, so if that's the kind of reaction I can expect, fuck it. And yes, don't I have a hilarious surname? Well spotted. Back on topic, those eight tracks are exactly what I was trying to avoid when I made my compilation. In the end I didn't include any of Old Shep's BLTs (or TFs) cos they were too close to the original and nowhere near as strong. So it was just the standard album version. You'll see that I included the Perfecto Mix of World which was so good I didn't need Hague's crappy album version / video take / radio edit, or the spin-offs Perfect edit and Sexy Disco Dub. Superfluous. Spooky Stadium also displaced Hague's '''''effort''''' too. Remember this was just before everything went green, apologies digital, so I wasn't gonna fill cassette after cassette with weak, repetitive surplus.
Since you ask, I did have a threesome once. It was cool. But it would've been better with at least one woman.

Mr Discography wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I couldn't see the point in filling a side with Shep Craplyboned's five BLTs (I'm including the video version)

Pointless? Yes? Collectable? Very. Versions I've mostly listened to? 12" and 7" of course!

The 12" loses Hooky, which is a criminal offence.

Fotz wrote: On the subject of porno mags, i heard or read something recently that Whitehouse porn mag chose that name to wind up Mary Whitehouse.

So it wasn't because their logo was a house that had walls dripping with jizz? Quite frankly I'm disappointed.

Come dancing.

Oops I forgot the other one that quaified: Joe T Vanelli's 1963. Strangely, the CD only featured the dub, but there was a full vocal mix on the 12". I quite liked it, even though it lost Hooky and told you more about the remixer than NO... And 1963 gave us Nothing For Me, the closest we got to a newbie, hence its inclusion in the Yanks Best Of. I think the only original thing we got was Theme From Devil Hopping. I keep forgetting spoilt, overpublicised, undertalented '''''singers'''''. Oops, I did it again. One more time.

Debaser wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think it was round here that I read Aphex Twin were commissioned to do a mix and just handed over the last thing they'd been working on.

I believe that was a Lemonheads 'remix', not NO.

I know it wasn't NO, but it reminded me of Lionrock's assault on 1963. It was cute but still a ripoff cos fans were shelling out for a new take on a strong track, and this wasn't it. I could argue that even Spooky was dubious cos the band weren't even talking to each other (hence the 'arty' video). Or I could shut the fuck up. There's also been talk of a Pet Shop Boys TF remix but links tended to go straight to Shep Pottymouth's. The confusion probably arose cos of Shep's Pets link or cos they sometimes DJed and were / are big NO fans. Given the high profile of both acts, I'm sure if such a track did exist it'd be easy to locate. To my knowledge, the Pets have never remixed NO. I once found a Regret PSB mix on WinMX (remember that?) but it was just the Bside. I admire Neil Tennant for staying true to his principles. Sits in a studio with 1988's Patsy Kensit and is STILL gay. Respect!

Mr. Disco wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

You think THAT'S bad https://www.her.ie/amp/music/natalie-imbruglia-torn-original-361918

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Mr. Disco wrote:

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I once saw The Light (tee hee) and one of the techs said that Hooky had become nice since he stopped doing coke. I never liked Peter Hook, but then I saw The Light. I never liked the Pet Shop Boys' music, but then I discovered It's Alright. I never liked One Direction. They are total and utter fucking shit.

It's Alright isn't a PSB song, is it? (And yep, learning that in the late 90s kinda ruined my childhood)

You think THAT'S bad https://www.her.ie/amp/music/natalie-imbruglia-torn-original-361918

You think THAT'S bad? Check out Led Zeppelin

And Nirvana (who also nicked their Teen Spirit chords from Boston's More Than A Feeling):

https://youtu.be/C7P997o89UY

18.06 - 18.11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyickHKUYpY

Like No Other wrote: For those of you who haven't heard this BLT Soundcheck/Rehearsal ive uploaded it here .I'm sure its the same one you have mentioned Perspex. I ve got it labelled as "soundcheck" at the London Central Poly gig 06-12-1985.

https://we.tl/t-lc0s00LBsa

Wow thanks for this - never heard this before, very strange hearing different lyrics (glad Barney changed them in the end). Do you think this could end up on the Box sets, sounds as good as some of the stuff on the first 2.

Too Late followup, but some beyond trainspotter Insight https://www.new-order.net/no/gigs/nogigs85.html#NO-851206