Arthur Baker interview - remixing in the 80s

Great interview, mentions his old and recent work with new order:

https://superdeluxeedition.com/interview/arthur-baker-on-remixing-in-the-1980s/

later -1

They really should proofread. Unless it's verbatim and Arthur was stuttering...

I remember that Dancing In The Dark remix. Dublin's Radio Nova used to hammer that 12" back in the summer of '84.

Listening back to some of these old 80s remixes, the snare drum on tracks like PSB's Suburbia and the Springsteen track are incredibly loud. Harsh on the ears. I'm glad the kick drum kinda took over once House blew up. Having said that, the Big Beats of the 90's from the Chems and Fatboy were right up my street.

It was quite daring of Baker to do House style remixes of Fleetwood Mac (of all people!) in '87. I wouldn't argue with his comments about it being the first House remix of a rock record. I seem to recall Love Can't Turn Around was officially the first House track to make the UK Top 40 in '86. But House didn't really go mainstream until '88/89 when S Express and Black Box hit No1 in the UK charts. It would have been later than that in the US, I imagine.

Speaking of that Fleetwood Mac remix, I'm reminded of my theory that Arthur's remix of Big Love influenced his production on TBTHOG later that year - as I mentioned Here. The embed of the A-side mix in that post is gone but there are other uploads of it on YT like this one. The timings will be a few seconds different on this upload, incidentally. BTW you can now customise the playback of speeds very precisely on YouTube videos. If you customise the Fleetwood Mac A-side remix down to 90%, and then listen to the percussion parts, you can hopefully hear the similarities with Touched's percussion section(s).

Also on the subject of NO, I was looking through Baker's Discogs remix credits, and Discogs give him a credit for BM'88 on the Substance '89 Video Here. Could he have been involved in the video edit or is this likely a mistake by a Discogs contributor? I never bought that video...

Was genuinely surprised to read that Cindy Lauper and Springsteen went into the studio to see Arthur in action. And that he had to collect a tape from Lindsay Buckingham's house.

For NO fans who haven't bothered to read the article, this bit was an interesting piece of eh, insight(?) or gossip or something:

You know, me and Barney and me and Hooky are really close friends. They are two of my best friends. Unfortunately, they don’t talk to one another, so it makes it difficult. I invited both of them to my wedding, about 11 years ago. And Hooky answered first and so Barney didn’t come. But I’ve done tracks with Hooky, I do remixes for New Order and I DJ for both of them, so it’s fine. Of course when I’m with one of them, they do ask what’s going on with the other, but I’m pretty diplomatic.

Debaser wrote: I remember that Dancing In The Dark remix. Dublin's Radio Nova used to hammer that 12" back in the summer of '84.

Listening back to some of these old 80s remixes, the snare drum on tracks like PSB's Suburbia and the Springsteen track are incredibly loud. Harsh on the ears. I'm glad the kick drum kinda took over once House blew up. Having said that, the Big Beats of the 90's from the Chems and Fatboy were right up my street.

It was quite daring of Baker to do House style remixes of Fleetwood Mac (of all people!) in '87. I wouldn't argue with his comments about it being the first House remix of a rock record. I seem to recall Love Can't Turn Around was officially the first House track to make the UK Top 40 in '86. But House didn't really go mainstream until '88/89 when S Express and Black Box hit No1 in the UK charts. It would have been later than that in the US, I imagine.

Speaking of that Fleetwood Mac remix, I'm reminded of my theory that Arthur's remix of Big Love influenced his production on TBTHOG later that year - as I mentioned Here. The embed of the A-side mix in that post is gone but there are other uploads of it on YT like this one. The timings will be a few seconds different on this upload, incidentally. BTW you can now customise the playback of speeds very precisely on YouTube videos. If you customise the Fleetwood Mac A-side remix down to 90%, and then listen to the percussion parts, you can hopefully hear the similarities with Touched's percussion section(s).

Also on the subject of NO, I was looking through Baker's Discogs remix credits, and Discogs give him a credit for BM'88 on the Substance '89 Video Here. Could he have been involved in the video edit or is this likely a mistake by a Discogs contributor? I never bought that video...

Was genuinely surprised to read that Cindy Lauper and Springsteen went into the studio to see Arthur in action. And that he had to collect a tape from Lindsay Buckingham's house.

For NO fans who haven't bothered to read the article, this bit was an interesting piece of eh, insight(?) or gossip or something:

You know, me and Barney and me and Hooky are really close friends. They are two of my best friends. Unfortunately, they don’t talk to one another, so it makes it difficult. I invited both of them to my wedding, about 11 years ago. And Hooky answered first and so Barney didn’t come. But I’ve done tracks with Hooky, I do remixes for New Order and I DJ for both of them, so it’s fine. Of course when I’m with one of them, they do ask what’s going on with the other, but I’m pretty diplomatic.

Touched by the Hand of God was not released as a single in North America until it appeared on the flipside of Blue Monday 1988. I'm guessing someone made the mistake based on the fact that Arthur is credited on that release, though they're getting the specific track incorrect.

Legend. Love what he did to the Pet Shit Boys In The Night. When I finally heard the original, I couldn't believe how dull it was. I never knew he'd mixed Macca's No More Lonely Nights. Interesting. Dug it out on YouTube and it's actually based on the funkier Playout Version rather than the original ballad. Not very immaginative, certainly by his standards, and I can understand why he's not particularly proud of it. I had that Substance 89 vid. Never really understood the track listing - no State of the Nation or Technique singles. Still, nice to have The Happy One. Fuck me, do they milk it. Couldn't even be arsed to finish The Happy One, but still gave it three outings - Substance, Palatine and The Other Side of Midnight. Wankers.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

Never really understood the track listing - no State of the Nation or Technique singles.

I’ve always suspected that the reason for not having Technique era singles on it was down to Factory having had it planned for release earlier, but the project getting derailed. When they finally decided to release it, they just couldn’t be arsed to mess around and put the Technique stuff on. They just ‘re-badged’ it and called it ‘Substance 1989’.

Pure speculation on my part though.

No idea as regards the State Of The Nation omission. Perhaps they just thought it was a bit too similar to both Shellshock and Bizarre Love Triangle. Quick cuts, nothing really happening etc.

I suppose the other missing video is the original Blue Monday, but I guess we can assume that was avoided due to one of more of the following:

a) repetition, considering Blue Monday 88 was already included; b) the amateur nature of the video (it was Steve messing about, wasn’t it?); c) potential copyright infringement with some of the footage (Zaxxon, news shots etc.).

Depending on when Substance 1989 was released in the year, I guess it might not have been in time to include Run 2 anyway.

And going back to State Of The Nation, I always think that it’s a better video than the very bland Shellshock. So, if there was a decision to exclude one video, Shellshock would’ve been my choice and I’d’ve included State of the Nation.

Yeah, I once read that they skipped trax cos it was a vinyl Substance revisit. Still crap though.

I've always been intrigued as to why Blue Funday eluded compilation. They've had shit loads of opps - Substance, New Order Story, Best Of, Item...?

perspexorange wrote: Depending on when Substance 1989 was released in the year, I guess it might not have been in time to include Run 2 anyway.

If I remember correctly, the Substance 1989 VHS was released in September that year. Run 2 was released just a few weeks earlier in late August. Or at least the UK release dates were. So obviously the VHS would have been produced some months, or even earlier, before. I guess the Run 2 vid could potentially at a push have made it onto the VHS and would actually have tied in nicely with the close release dates of both.Though of course if the VHS was actually compiled a year or two earlier then delayed release that was never going to happen.

Vaguely recall being puzzled that more NO vids like original BM 83 vid and at a push Fine Time and Round & Round weren’t included. But as mentioned above , probably a number of reasons why Steve’s knocked up vid wasn’t on it. Can hardly remember what the State Of The Nation video was like. I guess it was similar to Shellshock so as mentioned, maybe too samey. At the time I bought the Substance vid I think I was just happy to finally get to the see the TPK vid in its entirety. I’d previously only had a couple of minutes of it recorded off BBC2’s Whistle Test when a brief section of it was shown in 1985 around the time it and Low Life were released.

All the videos ( well except, again for the BM 83 one) eventually turned up on the Best Of VHS .

I think the only single never to have a video , either at the time of release or later efforts like the Temptation and Ceremony ones on Item is Thieves Like Us. Oh and Murder has never had a vid made for it either come to think of it.Well, maybe there’s fan made ones but certainly not any official vids.

The Best Of was a silly title cos it had everythiNg except BM 83! By the time of Item, I think every single had an official vid, except Thieves LIke Us (but there's the TOTP appearance) and Murder (which is arguably not a single). My personal favourite is Turn - three vids and a single edit on Singles, but it never fucking turned up! There was talk of artwork featuring a terne, and a WFTSC megamix as a Bside, but when a punter asked Hooky DJing, he said he had no idea. I think Joy Division are total and utter fucking shit.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Yeah, I once read that they skipped trax cos it was a vinyl Substance revisit. Still crap though.

This is a joke about the needle skipping? Hmm 2/10.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I've always been intrigued as to why Blue Funday eluded compilation. They've had shit loads of opps - Substance, New Order Story, Best Of, Item...?

Oh the '83 video? Well I offered my opinion on that Here (reply #5). Alternatively it could just be that the visual quality was crap. Most people besides nerdy old NO fans just consume their music online these days so I guess you could watch this video. And if you really want to own it, you could probably "rip" it from youtube on to a hard drive.

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

My personal favourite is Turn - three vids and a single edit on Singles, but it never fucking turned up! There was talk of artwork featuring a terne, and a WFTSC megamix as a Bside,

Record company changed their mind. Shit happens. Sirens Tribute Mix; worth approximately two plays:

No, not a joke. My sense of humour is far more sophisticated than that. I once read that one of the reasons they didn't include the later singles on the vid was cos they were trying to recreate the Substance album. All the songs were on the LP too.

^ the Sirens Tribute Mix was only worth a couple of plays???!!!! No way! I frequently caned that mix back in the day.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: No, not a joke. My sense of humour is far more sophisticated than that. I once read that one of the reasons they didn't include the later singles on the vid was cos they were trying to recreate the Substance album. All the songs were on the LP too.

Oh I can see your point. Except for Touched By The Hand Of God. The vid is on the Substance VHS but obviously not on the Substance album as it came after.

Ah, you're right. TBTHOG came out late 88, so over a year after Substance. Otherwise it's pretty much a Substance Vinly revisit.

Fotz wrote: ^ the Sirens Tribute Mix was only worth a couple of plays???!!!! No way! I frequently caned that mix back in the day.

Not a huge fan of megamixes. Perspex opened an interasting thread about this.

Fotz wrote: the Sirens Tribute Mix was only worth a couple of plays???!!!! No way! I frequently caned that mix back in the day.

Which day? How did you own it back in the day?

Michael Monkhouse wrote: No, not a joke. My sense of humour is far more sophisticated than that.

anal sex/fucking shit? But of course!

Michael Monkhouse wrote:

I once read that one of the reasons they didn't include the later singles on the vid was cos they were trying to recreate the Substance album. All the songs were on the LP too.

Well they did call it Substance, so that would make sense. But why it didn;t come out in in 87 or indeed 88 with BM'88 or TBTHOG is the mystery to me.

You're just jealous because I know so many interesting facts about the Spice Girls. The one good thing to come out of this thread is that I've revisted Baker's In The Night mix. God, I love his take on that song! Can't stop listening to it. What a legend,

I'd like to point out that it took me 15 mins to post that last post. Kept being rejected as Spam. Something to do with the last part where I suggested release dates. Did the forum think I was trying to sell something? 😕

Ive had problems posting too. Seriously though, Arthur Baker did such a great job on In The Night. Lovely stuff. The original was worse than Revenge. Been revisting Introspective - like the Beatles' White Album and PIL's Flowers of Rmance, I didn't really get it first time aroud, but they reward repeated listening. My first ever gig was Electronic late 91. The Pets guested on three songs! There you go, I've actually managed to be positive for a bit. That's that over with.

Debaser wrote: I'd like to point out that it took me 15 mins to post that last post. Kept being rejected as Spam. Something to do with the last part where I suggested release dates. Did the forum think I was trying to sell something? 😕

Michael Monkhouse wrote: Ive had problems posting too.

I've never been 100% sure exactly what sets off the 'SPAM' warning, but I think it has problems when there are non-English words in the text. This usually happens when I shorten 'The Perfect Kiss' to 'TPK', 'Blue Monday' to 'BM' etc. I guess it thinks it's gobbledegook and rejects it. If I get a post rejected as SPAM, I try and tidy things up so that there are no abbreviations etc. That usually allows me to post OK.

Debaser wrote: But why it didn;t come out in in 87 or indeed 88 with BM'88 or TBTHOG is the mystery to me.

The above abbreviations were probably partly to blame (although you did get it past the filter in the end).

What I have noticed is that, when I first post, it normally goes through OK. It's if I try to edit the post. Then it rejects it and I have to get rid of the abbreviations at that point. I seem to think that it sometimes has problems at the initial 'posting' stage if you quote somebody else and their post contains abbreviations, so will be interested to see if I have any trouble with this post.

This post is off topic.

My post went through OK, so not sure what conclusions to draw from that. It is definitely something to do with abbreviations though.

Fotz wrote: At the time I bought the Substance vid I think I was just happy to finally get to the see the TPK vid in its entirety. I’d previously only had a couple of minutes of it recorded off BBC2’s Whistle Test when a brief section of it was shown in 1985 around the time it and Low Life were released.

I had heard that it was shown on OGWT, but wasn't 100% sure of this. Nice to have this confirmed. I have a date of 28/05/85 for that showing, incidentally. Not sure if that is correct or not, but the date seems in the right ballpark.

Incidentally, I've also heard that the video for 'Blue Monday' was shown on OGWT on 20/01/84. Again, not 100% sure of the date. I'm guessing this was either the Steve video or or even the Duvet Brothers video (although this seems highly unlikely given the unofficial status and political messages featured within it).

So that makes six times the band were featured on Whistle Test:

22/11/80 'Filmfinders' video for 'Isolation' shown 14/07/81 Repeat of 'Transmission; from 'Something Else' shown 20/01/84 'Blue Monday' video shown 28/05/85 'The Perfect Kiss' video shown 03/12/85 'As It Is When It Was' and 'Sunrise' (edit) at the Haçienda shown 31/12/85 Complete version of 'Sunrise' shown

Would love to see the Filmfinders clip above, so if anyone has it, please let me know.

Too fiddly to quote using iPhone various points above by Debaser and Perspex but to answer Debaser’s question about how did I have the Sirens Tribute mix back in the day, the day was around 2005/2006 and someone on the forum posted a link to a download of it which I grabbed. That version was as it turned out a shortened version. Many years later there appeared I think a longer version.

To Perspex’ question about TPK on Whistle Test, yep it was definitely May 1985 but not sure exactly the date but it was around the release. It was when Whistle Test for a time was on about 7pm or something on Tuesday evening. If you don’t believe me look it up on Genome. This was when I managed to record the brief clip of TPK off the show and all I had of the vid until the release of the Substance VHS. The traditional time of course for Whistle Test was late on a Friday night . I did actually by luck also catch the showing of Steve’s vid for BM on the edition of Whistle Test on 20/01/84 but didn’t have a video recorder in my bedroom to record it and so never saw it again for years. You might get lucky tracking down those editions of the show featuring the BM vid and the TPK vid but I should imagine it’ll be hard!

Oh and no, I no longer have the VHS tape with the Whistle Test clip of TPK. Lost it or something somehow many years ago.

Were they on The Old Grey Whistle Test? Cool. John Lennon and PIL did that show too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qHWquydhzY

Fotz wrote:

To Perspex’ question about TPK on Whistle Test, yep it was definitely May 1985 but not sure exactly the date but it was around the release. It was when Whistle Test for a time was on about 7pm or something on Tuesday evening. If you don’t believe me look it up on Genome. This was when I managed to record the brief clip of TPK off the show and all I had of the vid until the release of the Substance VHS. The traditional time of course for Whistle Test was late on a Friday night . I did actually by luck also catch the showing of Steve’s vid for BM on the edition of Whistle Test on 20/01/84 but didn’t have a video recorder in my bedroom to record it and so never saw it again for years. You might get lucky tracking down those editions of the show featuring the BM vid and the TPK vid but I should imagine it’ll be hard!

Oh and no, I no longer have the VHS tape with the Whistle Test clip of TPK. Lost it or something somehow many years ago.

Cheers Fotz! I appreciate the info.

Yep - I have tried to track down those 'missing' OGWT appearances, with little luck. Not that those two video showings are probably much really (after all, we already have copies of the videos in their entirety). I just like to see how these things were presented back in the day. See whether the presenters commented on the videos etc.

There's a really cool repository of TOTP episodes on the internet, that someone's put up. I wish there was something similar for OGWT. The Chart Show too (I've been trying to track down all the band's appearances on that prog; just for the silly 'text facts' they used to put on screen).

Fotz wrote:

perspexorange wrote: Depending on when Substance 1989 was released in the year, I guess it might not have been in time to include Run 2 anyway.

If I remember correctly, the Substance 1989 VHS was released in September that year. Run 2 was released just a few weeks earlier in late August. Or at least the UK release dates were. So obviously the VHS would have been produced some months, or even earlier, before. I guess the Run 2 vid could potentially at a push have made it onto the VHS and would actually have tied in nicely with the close release dates of both.Though of course if the VHS was actually compiled a year or two earlier then delayed release that was never going to happen.

Vaguely recall being puzzled that more NO vids like original BM 83 vid and at a push Fine Time and Round & Round weren’t included. But as mentioned above , probably a number of reasons why Steve’s knocked up vid wasn’t on it. Can hardly remember what the State Of The Nation video was like. I guess it was similar to Shellshock so as mentioned, maybe too samey. At the time I bought the Substance vid I think I was just happy to finally get to the see the TPK vid in its entirety. I’d previously only had a couple of minutes of it recorded off BBC2’s Whistle Test when a brief section of it was shown in 1985 around the time it and Low Life were released.

All the videos ( well except, again for the BM 83 one) eventually turned up on the Best Of VHS .

I think the only single never to have a video , either at the time of release or later efforts like the Temptation and Ceremony ones on Item is Thieves Like Us. Oh and Murder has never had a vid made for it either come to think of it.Well, maybe there’s fan made ones but certainly not any official vids.

In addition, I'm not aware of official videos for Procession, Sub-Culture, Someone Like You or Guilt is a Useless Emotion either...

I think that Everything Has Gangrene covers Procession. Subculture doesn't have a vid either but it's about wanking so maybe better that way. The other songs are not really official singles.

Andy wrote:

In addition, I'm not aware of official videos for Procession, Sub-Culture, Someone Like You or Guilt is a Useless Emotion either...

Oops crikey yes you're absolutely correct.I completely forgot about all those, bizarrely.

Michael Monkhouse wrote: I think that Everything Has Gangrene covers Procession. Subculture doesn't have a vid either but it's about wanking so maybe better that way. The other songs are not really official singles.

I disagree.

Fotz wrote: If I remember correctly, the Substance 1989 VHS was released in September that year.

Discogs says 23 May 1989, but I got my hands on it in late July / early August. I spent that summer in Texas doing field work, an hour away from the nearest city (Beaumont). I would drive in on weekends, and they had a Camelot Music in their mall. I bought the Substance VHS there. When I got back to the little town where I was staying I had access to a VCR, and it was the first time I'd seen most of those videos. I was absolutely blown away by The Perfect Kiss.

I went back to my home state in late August, before the Fall semester started, and I got Run 2 after my return. My local shop imported lots of stuff, so I got it the week of release or very shortly thereafter.

dont foget about video 586.

later -1

negative1 wrote: dont foget about video 586.

later -1

I would say the footage of the Hacienda the track was paired with originally counts as a video in as much as the track was not originally a single anyway. Not counting The Peter Saville Show Soundtrack either, which you could argue is in the same vein (music released on a single format though it was created for a different purpose).

Nope, Video586 ain't a boner fide NO single. It was released on a weird label when they weren't even talking to each other. let alone promoting. How the fuck could they have done a vid for 25 minutes of 'pap'? I know some ''''people'''' were bemoaning its omission from 'Singles', but could you honestly have sat through this bullshit in the midst of that clutch of classic early 45s? I'da been racing for 'skip' every fucking time. I'd say that by Item, all the songs had official vides, albeit some of them twenty years late, except Thieves Like Us ad Subculture.