How dissapointing is Retro ?

In my view there are 4 good things about retro:

1. The cover > looks nice
2. Studio version of temptation (disk1)
3. Live CD
4. Bonus CD

Rest is a big dissapointment, where are the 7" versions of Ceremony & Temptation ??

Its a bit sh!t to rip people off with the same material as everyone already has.

Was some warez releases of it:

New_Order-Retro-Promo_4CD-2002-NuHS New_Order-Retro-5CD-RETAIL-2002-SnS

Stupid me, I still went and bought it ;)

But for POP which is redundant I do not find RETRO disappointing at all. Actually I am quite happy with it.

The only things I find even remotely disappointing about it are the 217 versions of Fine Time and the 196 takes on Elegia, especially when you consider there is no Love Vigilantes or Thieves Like Us, to name but two. Having said that, the rest of it works very well indeed, and I am glad to have added it to my collection. As I get older, it means I won't have to chop and change CDs as often to select my favourites, or burn CDRs of my choices !

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes The only things I find even remotely disappointing about it are the 217 versions of Fine Time and the 196 takes on Elegia, especially when you consider there is no Love Vigilantes or Thieves Like Us, to name but two. Having said that, the rest of it works very well indeed, and I am glad to have added it to my collection. As I get older, it means I won't have to chop and change CDs as often to select my favourites, or burn CDRs of my choices !

Are you kidding? Is Love Vigilantes really not on Retro?

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes The only things I find even remotely disappointing about it are the 217 versions of Fine Time and the 196 takes on Elegia, especially when you consider there is no Love Vigilantes or Thieves Like Us, to name but two. Having said that, the rest of it works very well indeed, and I am glad to have added it to my collection. As I get older, it means I won't have to chop and change CDs as often to select my favourites, or burn CDRs of my choices !

It could have been better, but overall it's not a disappointment.

I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

Which is your favorite one?

Originally posted by Major Tarantino I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

I know! i cant believe it took me nearly a week to find them all though!!

I found the hidden features on 511 in 5 minutes! (pure fluke mind!!)

Originally posted by Patrick > Originally posted by Major Tarantino I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

Which is your favorite one?

Love vigilantes :D

Retro's pretty much what I expected it to be. I don't understand the torrent of moaning (especially on alt.music.neworder), what did people think it would be? Clearly with a box set partly you are going to be paying for the same tracks again. Its a way of making up for all those mp3s you've downloaded!

And having the original confusion on cd at last is nice.

The bonus disk is pretty essential in pushing into the region of 'good enough' though.

Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert > Originally posted by Patrick> > > > Originally posted by Major Tarantino > I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

Which is your favorite one?

Love vigilantes :D

The best hidden tracks are hooky singing true faith on CD1 and that great out-take from age of consent where barney goes into a drug induced coma, but still manages to play the guitar solo.

Originally posted by Major Tarantino > Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert> > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > > > > > > Originally posted by Major Tarantino > > > I love it, especially the hidden tracks on each CD. Nice touch.

Which is your favorite one?

Love vigilantes :D

The best hidden tracks are hooky singing true faith on CD1 and that great out-take from age of consent where barney goes into a drug induced coma, but still manages to play the guitar solo.

Which edition of Retro do you have? Mine only has got Love Vig' as hidden track: the album version on Pop, an early demo on Fan, a remix on Club and a live version on Live.

I stole my copy from the pressing factory where it had been left on a windowsill to cool.

I for one like the track listing for Disc one. I listened to the 30 sec. snippets, and I think that the sequence is logical and works, nevermind that I have all these songs on other CDs/CD-Rs. I'm looking forward to getting it No complaints

Originally posted by Al Jarvis The biggest disappointment regarding Retro was the dismal reaction of some supposed fans. Still, it did create a lot of debate across this board. And others. Better to be talked about, than not talked about. Or whatever.

Indeed as someone quite rightly pointed out, short of releasing every fart and burp they have even done then you'll never please everyone.

You have got to be realistic, I think Retro is a good a balance of what we wished for and what they wanted to give us as we were likely to ever get :)

Actually I have just thought of one reservation I do have, simply that the booklet could have had more content, more song-by-song reminiscences, more interviews with N.O. related figures, even some Morleybollocks would have been nice.

Most reviews which I've read support my opinion that it was a missed opportunity. I don't believe casual fans - the ones who just like Regret, Crystal and BM when it comes on the radio or in clubs - would fork out £30 or $50 or more for this box set, so it should have been for REAL FANS. The best example I can think of was Simple Minds 4 x 5cd "Themes" sets of all of their singles released on Virgin Records up until 1990 or so. I think they cost £20 - £25 each at the time and you could buy each one seperately, so if there was a particular period you didn't like you didn't have to buy it.

Originally posted by ken colquhoun Most reviews which I've read support my opinion that it was a missed opportunity. I don't believe casual fans - the ones who just like Regret, Crystal and BM when it comes on the radio or in clubs - would fork out £30 or $50 or more for this box set, so it should have been for REAL FANS. The best example I can think of was Simple Minds 4 x 5cd "Themes" sets of all of their singles released on Virgin Records up until 1990 or so. I think they cost £20 - £25 each at the time and you could buy each one seperately, so if there was a particular period you didn't like you didn't have to buy it.

Which reviews are you refering to? NME was lukewarm I'm told (but I gave up paying attention to NME around 1984) Uncut liked it.

Putting all the singles on cds was the original idea, was it not? But it was decided it would end up hidously expensive. In any case there's actually not an awful lot of extra material you'd get doing it that way. You'd just be paying for even more of the stuff you already had.

I dunno, I don't think its worth getting too worked up about either way, its just pop music (heresy!).

Come on.. it´s shite and you know that.

Look at Heard and Soul box set. OK, Joy Division made only two studio albuns, but they´ve put some GREAT STUFF on Disc 3. It´s a expensive collector item, and it should contain hardcore fans wanted tracks. That´s the meaning of a box set. People who just like the hits have Permanent 1995 or International. The bonus disc´s an indignity to the real fans who want to collect their rarities and find themselves suddenly empty-handed ´cause some lucky moron was in the right store at the right time and bought the limited edition before.

Face it: those tracks should be released on the regular box set, and Lundun Records sucks. :barf:

Originally posted by Mr. Disco Come on.. it´s shite and you know that. Look at Heard and Soul box set. OK, Joy Division made only two studio albuns, but they´ve put some GREAT STUFF on Disc 3. It´s a expensive collector item, and it should contain hardcore fans wanted tracks. That´s the meaning of a box set. People who just like the hits have Permanent 1995 or International. The bonus disc´s an indignity to the real fans who want to collect their rarities and find themselves suddenly empty-handed ´cause some lucky moron was in the right store at the right time and bought the limited edition before. Face it: those tracks should be released on the regular box set, and Lundun Records sucks. :barf:

I really don't agree with the attitude that the music one likes suddenly becomes worthless just because other people now have it. One collects 'rarities' in order to enjoy listening to them, not for the rather misely pleasure of knowing they are rare and other people don't have them, surely? I know everyone (self included) sometimes gives in to that rather anal attitude, but its not really something to encourage, I think. And anyway, in this age of mp3 there are no rarities any more (hell, howdya think I feel with over a thousand cds, to see everyone and their dog downloading the stuff for nothing! That's life! )

And in any case, doesn't the same arugment apply to H&S? The first two disks were the same lp tracks, and some people already had stuff from the others by tracking down rare bootlegs.

What precisely would you have wanted to see on Retro? Perhaps the equivalents of H&S disk3 weren't on it because they don't exist?

What precisely would you have wanted to see on Retro? Perhaps the equivalents of H&S disk3 weren't on it because they don't exist?

They don´t? So what´s the deal with the Full version of "Elegia" and the rest of the fifth CD? And there´s a huge list with include studio sessions - 1985 sessions and 1998-2001 BBC sessions - hard to find mixes - Touched by the hand of BIAS or World in Motion 1996 - B-sides like Don´t do It! or the complete tracks from the Salvation! soundtrack. And they call "FAN" a selection of album tracks? Please..

Well the 1998-2001 studio sessions are circulating as bootlegs and mp3s just as the 17min elegia and temptation 98 etc were. The 1996 WIM is on the beautiful game cd that isn't too hard to find. Don't do it is on the fine time cd single, likewise not that hard to find. Anyway I thought you didn't want to devalue people's rarities collections? :)

Anyway I thought you didn't want to devalue people's rarities collections? :)

Of course I didn´t

Seriously, those were just examples. There´s much more stuff that could fill almost the entire box. Once again: non-hardcore fans have International and related stuff to have fun with. A release like this is just too expensive for wasting with album versions only.

Originally posted by ShugZV©
The only disappointing thing for me is that I paid £32 for the fucker, and Baldrick went out and got it today for £27.......all these johnny come lately's getting New Order bargains....it's just not right, and I'm not happy about itI'm happy with it, and as I've already said, the "Real" box set will be worth the dosh;)My mate Malky came round the flat last night, he doesn't own any New Order stuff, but he said he liked the look of Retro and may even go out and buy it with his dole money......so it has impressed some people!As fer the best hidden track on the CD, surely it was the version of WIFM, with only farts for music and no lyrics.....kinda like Only You by The Flying Pickets I thought.....and very ironic

I could have bought two for that price Shug !! :p

Originally posted by ShugZV©
The only disappointing thing for me is that I paid £32 for the fucker, and Baldrick went out and got it today for £27.......all these johnny come lately's getting New Order bargains....it's just not right, and I'm not happy about itI'm happy with it, and as I've already said, the "Real" box set will be worth the dosh;)My mate Malky came round the flat last night, he doesn't own any New Order stuff, but he said he liked the look of Retro and may even go out and buy it with his dole money......so it has impressed some people!As fer the best hidden track on the CD, surely it was the version of WIFM, with only farts for music and no lyrics.....kinda like Only You by The Flying Pickets I thought.....and very ironic

Shugster, I am having problems finding the hidden tracks, I found Love Vigilantes piece of cake but WIM (Del Amitri Mix) I cannot found. I have tried pressing thrice the play button while Fine Time Disc POP is about to end but it does not work. It simply turns off, then on, and then off again my CD player. Do I have to tinker with the balance or should I insert the CD upside down?

I bent the CD at a right angle and tried to play it. I got this amazing noise reminiscent of Metal machine music or Kraftwerk played at the wrong speed. Great track, but unfortunately the CD is now broken...

Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by ken colquhoun> Most reviews which I've read support my opinion that it was a missed opportunity. I don't believe casual fans - the ones who just like Regret, Crystal and BM when it comes on the radio or in clubs - would fork out £30 or $50 or more for this box set, so it should have been for REAL FANS. The best example I can think of was Simple Minds 4 x 5cd "Themes" sets of all of their singles released on Virgin Records up until 1990 or so. I think they cost £20 - £25 each at the time and you could buy each one seperately, so if there was a particular period you didn't like you didn't have to buy it.

Which reviews are you refering to? NME was lukewarm I'm told (but I gave up paying attention to NME around 1984) Uncut liked it.

Putting all the singles on cds was the original idea, was it not? But it was decided it would end up hidously expensive. In any case there's actually not an awful lot of extra material you'd get doing it that way. You'd just be paying for even more of the stuff you already had.

I dunno, I don't think its worth getting too worked up about either way, its just pop music (heresy!).

I also gave up on NME some time ago and wouldn't use it now to wipe my arse. I was referring to articles in Q especially, and the Daily Record 192 section and Channel 4 teletext, all of whom came to the same conclusion more or less as me. I think the amount of classic or unavailable or hard to find tracks left off for easy to find versions of other tracks, some of which in my opinion ( and it is only my opinion ) aren't anywhere near as good as Temptation 7" or Ceremony 7".

Does any one prefer the Remix CD? wouldn't sessions such as Western Works demos 1980 or the BBC Rock around the Clock session from 1984 represent a better selection and value for money.

The reason why I am angry about this is.

Its £30 ($50?) for 2cd's full of stuff easily available elsewhere. A set of remixes, which is patchy at best, and a live CD which the band or the label forced Bobby Gillespie to choose later tracks (Gillespie had selected almost exclusively early tracks on his pick).

The only CD to get quite excited about is Disc 5 and that was only made available as an afterthought to the initial indifferent reaction to the tracklist details revealed in October/November.

Its a shoddy half arsed we dont give a fuck, just send us your money package. How can a disc allegedly compiled by a "FAN" not include Age of Consent or Thieves Like Us or The Perfect Kiss (full length version). After reading others comments it appears that these three tracks are very popular - so why if NO couldn't be arsed to compile the box themselves why not use this polls via this or other sites.

Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.

The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..

Cheers

Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.

The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..

Cheers

..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about.

Originally posted by Ricardo Patrick took the words out my mouth: "it could have been better, but overall it's not a disappointment". I could do it better, anyone of us could do, but it's not that bad once you actually get the boxset and listen to it.

I love the boxset, I think the FAN is an great assortment of NO tracks that the true fans love. I dislike remixes, for the most part, but the Club disk is really good and may change my perception of remixes. I think the Live disk is a great testiment to a lot of tracks that would typically get missed... I mean including Elegia? Wow, that was a shock... not a Shellshock mind you, but a shock just the same. The 5th disk is awesome too. I guess the only weak disk, or overly repetative disk to other collections is disk 1. Not bad though, 1 so-so disk out of 5. I say "we love it, we love it!"

I enjoy retro quite a bit. Has been playing most of the time. The bonus disc is great, and so is the live disc. I was not expecting much from the remix disc, but that was a pleasent surprise

It's SITTING UNDER MY BLOODY TREE!!! It's torture not being able to get to it

Santa visited me on Friday 20/12 and brought me Retro (5 disc version). I'm pleased as punch to have gotten the ltd. edition version. Mind you I had to order it from HMV UK to be sure of getting it. What's more I got it cheaper than what it will be available in NZ I think.

Relax guys - it's not like New Order release a new CD every week. Just means there will be more stuff for another CD later. So what we do care? We are New Order fans aren't we? Overall I think it's great.

The only thing I dislike is the fan disc. I'm not saying that I dislike the songs, but to me it seems like a really bad mix of songs that all have the same mood to them. One thing that's great about New Order albums is the shift in styles and moods. PC+L and Low-Life are the best examples of this. They go from happy to sad, to upset then silly. The Fan disc has nothing but their moodier stuff, and it gets sort of dull.

Also, the Pop disc would have worked as the ultimate 'best of' compilation, but they had to ruin it by slapping on Slow Jam and Everyone Everywhere at the end.

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.> > The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..> > Cheers

..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about.

As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.

You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment. CTB

You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment. CTB

They don't? :dotdotdot:

I see.. that's why Depeche Mode fans are much more happy and satisfied

i don't think they had to fill it up with rare demos if they did not want to... but if you are to believe the interviews of Barney, he doesn't EVEN REMEMBER what and when they actually released, what stuff actually made it onto vinyl back in the 80s... so if he doesn't give a fuck, what is the big deal? you almost get the idea that Barney doesn't even think the band was important until he became such a "big pop star" with Electronic, and that "great" number one smash hit about football.

my beef is why was the Retro 4 disc set and International "Best-of" so poorly planned, and then half -filled bonus discs added hastily at the last minute (like, c'mon!, somebody just happened to notice that there would be little motivation for sales). its all kinda... "why the fuck bother...?"

they could have easily covered more "classic" period New Order, got different versions covered between the 5 Discs, and made it a more comprehensive, quality monument to the band... then on the bonus discs they had plenty of room for all the B sides... why should people pay over 50 in the USA for this set? maybe New Order just want them to look nice sitting in on the store shelves (unsold) for years, so thousands of people see them as they walk by.

If makes me wonder if Rob Gretton was still around, would the Recycle project have carried on? I mean, in the box set I think Barney says that they didn't do it because they realized it would take about 20 cds to do it, but cds alone is actually enough to cover every b-side, 7" version, ect. Then last cd could have been used to pile on all those dub versions that haven't been on cd yet. I really think that this isn't New Order's fault, it's London Records. If you listen to most of the tracks, they aren't even remastered from the orginal tapes. True Faith still has those pop noises throughout the song, and Blue Monday still has that slight sound drop out like it on Substance. Even the 24HPP version was remastered and fixed that problem.

I was disappointed with the track listing too. I had been looking forward to Recycle, but Retro is somewhat lacking.

I'll probably buy it just to have a clean version of the original Confusion on CD. There are so many b-sides that could have been included, though I was surprised by the inclusion of Best and Marsh.

Remixes shouldn't be included on a box set, unless they were done by the band themselves.

I"m having a hard time figuring out who this set is aimed at. It's not complete enough for hardcore fans, but it seems a bit much for the casual listener. Retro is also a stupid name, makes it sound trendy.

In all honesty, I'm more impressed with some of the rarities and remixes here on NOOL.

It's kind of sad seeing NO falling into the "reissue, repackage, repackage" trap like the Smiths. There are a zillion Smiths compilations, and now there are four NO ones.

There are 2 ways of looking at this. Initially, I was disappointed by the set list for the 4CD box. "Nowt new there" sort of thing. The inclusion of the bonus brightened my day & from then on I was sure I'd buy it. Now I've had it in my car CD for 2 weeks, I can say that I am very happy with it. There's a different disc for my different moods & it all goes together quite well. Given the economics of the biz, the Recycle format was a no-go, so they cam up with something different. It isn't what I would have chosen, but they asked 4 other people, not me, to choose for them. The 2nd way of looking at it is to take it for what it is and not whish for what it isn't. Taking the 2nd view, I am much happier.

Merry Chrimbo

Originally posted by 404 error > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> Come on.. it´s shite and you know that. > > Look at Heard and Soul box set. OK, Joy Division made only two studio albuns, but they´ve put some GREAT STUFF on Disc 3. It´s a expensive collector item, and it should contain hardcore fans wanted tracks. That´s the meaning of a box set. People who just like the hits have Permanent 1995 or International. The bonus disc´s an indignity to the real fans who want to collect their rarities and find themselves suddenly empty-handed ´cause some lucky moron was in the right store at the right time and bought the limited edition before. > > Face it: those tracks should be released on the regular box set, and Lundun Records sucks. :barf:

I really don't agree with the attitude that the music one likes suddenly becomes worthless just because other people now have it. One collects 'rarities' in order to enjoy listening to them, not for the rather misely pleasure of knowing they are rare and other people don't have them, surely? I know everyone (self included) sometimes gives in to that rather anal attitude, but its not really something to encourage, I think. And anyway, in this age of mp3 there are no rarities any more (hell, howdya think I feel with over a thousand cds, to see everyone and their dog downloading the stuff for nothing! That's life! )

And in any case, doesn't the same arugment apply to H&S? The first two disks were the same lp tracks, and some people already had stuff from the others by tracking down rare bootlegs.

What precisely would you have wanted to see on Retro? Perhaps the equivalents of H&S disk3 weren't on it because they don't exist?

I think they do exist

What could have been on Discs 3 and 4 of Retro

Western Works Demos Ceremony (original) In A Lonely Place (7" edit) Everything's Gone Green (7" edit) Mesh (From Factus 8 or FEP 313) Ode To Joy Rockin Carol Temptation (7" edit) Hurt (7" edit or full length 12" version) Blue Monday (Sunkist version) Thieves Like Us (7" edit) Rock Around The Clock (BBC 5 song live session - 1984) The Perfect Kiss (full length 12" version)

And many more... there must be demos of the band playing rehersal versions of the JD tracks played live such as Isolation, Atmosphere, She's Lost Control, Digital, LWTUA and Transmission etc

Just how good would it have been to get this rather than the unadulterated pish (EGG and TBTHOG excepted) from the club disc, and whilst the live cd is good it's not as good in my opinion as the stuff outlined above. IMHO.

Where's? Evil Dust Run 2 MTO Vanishing Point (instrumental...) Vicious Treak (NO mix) World (Dub) True Faith (alternate Dub)

Heh, it looks like I've got an alter ego in Brasil. I suppose I'll have to change my nome de plume again.

Originally posted by Mr Disco Heh, it looks like I've got an alter ego in Brasil. I suppose I'll have to change my nome de plume again.

Absolutely. Be my guest, you live in the right place and must keep the nick.

Originally posted by Substantial Republic of LowLifes It's SITTING UNDER MY BLOODY TREE!!! It's torture not being able to get to it

but it will be the first packaged opened, right

In answer to the original question !!

At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.

Update on Crystal Days

17 previously unrealeased tracks (inc. lost songs, bbc sessions

21 rarities & b-sides never beofre available on CD

64 page booklet with in-depth history & never seen before photo's

Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built In answer to the original question !!At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.

OhMyGod.. I forgot the "Crystal Days" box set. No more comments. :(

Originally posted by Jordan L ...Given the economics of the biz, the Recycle format was a no-go, so they cam up with something different...

Can someone explain why the economics won't work for Recycle? They haven't stopped Big Country, The Cult, Depeche Mode, Erasure, Morrissey and U2 from releasing box sets of their past singles.

I posted that line after reading Hooky's words in the recent metro interview:

"But the box set was Rob's idea [Gretton, New Order's manager who died in 1999]. He wanted to do a collection of the singles, because a lot of them had never been released on CD, and he wanted to do them with the B-sides, the sleeves, everything. The record company couldn't really cope with that, so we needed to get an angle, and we came up with getting other people to compile the CDs with their idea of New Order."

Hope this clarifies. Merry Chrimbo.

Today I got my Retro,International and Finsbury Park releases after the torture of seeing them arrive weeks ago. Initial impressions are excellent!!! A few posters above seem a bit short changed with their latest offerings some with good reason some without. With regard to who Retro is aimed at probably me! I got into New Order about 83' but listened to JD and heard a lot about them with them being a local band at school in Salford. I bought all the albums and 12" when most(not all) were released and now are stored safetly away. To get all this now on CD with a few rarities plus live material WOW. I love the band and all they stand for but have not been on a mission to collect everything Does this make me any less of a fan! NO.(No pun intended). To me imm in me element today. After very little for eight years 2 albums, 1 box set 1 new DVD loads of singles 24 HPP and live shows IMM BUZZIN!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets not give the guys and girl hard time! After all there together again and interested!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all.

Look at what they are doing with the PSB's - every album reissued with at least 10 more tracks... remixes, singles, Bsides... now that would be cool. Stop pressing the original albums and only issue the new ones with the extra songs.

By the way, I like Retro... no complaints here. Disk 1 doesn't get much airtime, but I love the other 4.

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Originally posted by The Hacienda must be (re)Built In answer to the original question !!At first i thought Retro was ok (60 odd tracks for a piffling amount of dosh) but today i recieved an EATB box set (Crystal Days, 72 tracks for £30) and have to say Retro pales by comparison.

OhMyGod.. I forgot the "Crystal Days" box set. No more comments. :(

Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

Originally posted by Chris Nash I'm presuming the 'hidden tracks' thing was a joke... If not, then I'm even dumber than you thought I was. Never occurred to me to look, and if I did, I'm sure I wouldn't be able to find them... unless someone explained...

yes if theres hidden tracks can some one explain cos pressing play three times after fine time didnt work for me. might though on my clitoris...:)

Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

I would respond to this, but your grammer is so interesting that I have no idea what you actually said.

Originally posted by Wolfmann > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> > > > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.>

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

I would respond to this, but your grammer is so interesting that I have no idea what you actually said.

Oh look everyone, just what the world was waiting for, A FUCKING KNOW-ALL PATRONISING AMERICAN. How good is your Portuguese then, you condescending c***.

P.S. "grammer" is spelt "grammar" in English, unless you're talking about the woman who was married to your "granpaw" (amongst others in your family)

Merry Christmas

In any event the Bunnymen and New Order have released a similar number of studio albums. (Bunnymen 8, New Order 7 by my reckoning). So where this imaginary 40% figure comes from is anyone's guess.

Happy New Year.

Oh look everyone, just what the world was waiting for, A FUCKING KNOW-ALL PATRONISING AMERICAN. How good is your Portuguese then, you condescending c***.

P.S. "grammer" is spelt "grammar" in English, unless you're talking about the woman who was married to your "granpaw" (amongst others in your family)

Merry Christmas

In any event the Bunnymen and New Order have released a similar number of studio albums. (Bunnymen 8, New Order 7 by my reckoning). So where this imaginary 40% figure comes from is anyone's guess.

Happy New Year.

Thank you. Being called names by you is quite nice actually.

P.S. Spelling grammar wrong in a rant about grammer is supposed to magnify the humor. I suppose only Fucking Know-All Patronizing Americans will catch that though. Sorry, I will attempt to lower my humor skills down to your level... What time is it when elephant sits on your fence?

P.S.S. I am British bonehead not American. I and my mother's whole side of the family are British. Even if I wasn't, you don't have to be British to know something about music.

P.S.S.S. How many singles and mixes did Echo release besides their studio albums?

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Echo released about half the material NO did... makes a box set much easier... actually they probably have released about 40% the material.

..Excuse me, but the fact that NewOrder released much more material doesn´t implies in more different releases, instead of this "Best of" endless repetition? I mean, Echo & the Bunnymen put collector stuff into their box set just for fit or the label realized that people had already bought the album version of "The killing moon" on seven different formats? :\ohwell:

Sorry Mr Disco, I wasn't really trying to make fun of your grammar skills, I was basically saying "I don't understand what you were trying to say."

Sorry Mr Disco, I wasn't really trying to make fun of your grammar skills, I was basically saying "I don't understand what you were trying to say."

Relax, that´s OK. I´m working right now, and just realized that I can´t work and think and type in english at the same time. See.. even I can´t get my point, so you´re actually in your right to make fun of me.. I would to :D

..I´ll try again later, whithout my boss around.

Originally posted by CTB > Originally posted by Mr. Disco> > > > Box sets are really of interest to true and not occasional fans, so why does this box set seemed to be aimed at them. Do fairweather fans spend £30 on a box set when they can pick up The best of for £8 or Substance for £11. If they buy any NO cd at all.> > > > The highlight for me of the "Heart & Soul" box set was the radio sessions and demos on disc 3, plus the fact that I didn't feel cheated as none of my favourite and the bands most important tracks had been left out of the set. Imagine that box set with no Transmission or Atmosphere or LWTUA but 3 verions of Failures or No Love Lost. Thats how I feel about this box set w/o the original single versions of Ceremony and Temptation and the three tracks listed above, but 3 versions of Elegia, 2 of Fine time etc..> > > > Cheers>

..See that? That's what I'm talkin' about.

As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.

You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment. CTB

If NO are not a "finished band" as you say they are doing a very good impression of one having released a whole 2 (one disappointing, one average) new albums since 1989. Why do you think that "Retro" should not be a collection of personal favourites, surely thats EXACTLY what Discs 1 and 2 are. Who are John McCarthy and Miranda Sawyer and why is their opinion of what a best of should contain any more valid than mine or yours or any other NO fan.

As a fan of the band since 1981, and Joy Division beforehand, I hust feel cheated that there is very little on the box set aimed at people like me, who bought the early singles and albums, and that I am expected just to accept the fact that because New Order release something that I should be grateful for that. Given the previous availabilty of most of the tracks on Retro discs 1 and 2 I believe an opportunity has been lost, and I also feel cheateed that I have to wait until they release another box set in the HOPE that they might release tracks unavailable on cd in preference to tracks already widely available or ANOTHER remix disc.

Retrospective - means a look back. it doesn't necessarily cover only previously released material. In fact in its normal context I would say a "retrospective" would represent a comprehensive look back and not a selected one, but that's just my opinion.

Whether New Order owe long standing fans anything or not is a matter of debate, I think they do you obviously think differently. If it wasn't for their long standing fans putting up with their contrary nature which has been both inspiring and irritating at times then I don't think the'd be living in their big expensive houses in Cheshire.

I don't know how long you've been a fan or how easy it is getting hold of their stuff is in Australia, but in the beginning here the band seemed to positively discourage anyone becoming a fan, e.g. unnamed (never mind pictured) or very difficult to read names on their record sleeves, unnanounced gigs, sometimes 30 or 45 minute shambolic sets, no acknowledgement of the audience etc, etc, and yet we stood by them because the music was special, it was MORE than special. The lack of inclusion of the tracks I previously listed, just makes me feel that my support hasn't been worth jackshit, and I am only valued if I am once again willing to put my hand in my pocket. If someone at London Records or within New Order themselves doesn't recognise HOW important the original version of "Ceremony" et al is important to people like me, I just felt there should have been room on a 66 track box set for it (and a few others)

I'd be interested to think whether you or any other fans believe there will be another box set, and when do you think this will happen?

Finally

If New Order don't exist for the entertainment of fans like you and me, then they should cease to exist as a recording artist and touring band and just play amongst themselves for their own enjoyment.

Regards

Uhm.. wait. My point is: the "Crystal Days" box set has coherence (more than my spelling, for example :)) to the public to wich it´s destined. Both bands are still around since late 70´s, so I can´t agree with the "amount of available material" argument.

You see? I´ve bought "Interational" and wow: there are Round & round, Blue monday, Crystal and Ceremony. Got "Retro", and.. WOW: there are Round & round, Blue monday, Crystal, Ceremony and.. the album version of Elegia? And I have to get a f*****g limited edition to listen to the full unreleased version? Man, that´s exactly the dream of any fan!!!

Hmmmmm... Well, obviously everyone is going to have a different opinion of what should be included on the boxed set. Unfortunately, only a select few got to make their opinions a reality. Personally, I quite like the whole shebang. Disc one is, after all, called pop. Hence no doubt, the POPular tunes. It's a nice line up of tracks, I think. Disc two is essentially "disc one, part two", it seems. A sort of "pop" for so called "real" fans. Disc three was a pleasant surprise for me. I was expecting not to be too interested, but instead I love it!Disc four is a gem! I wish new order would do as Pearl jam did, and start releasing "official bootlegs" of as many live shows as possible. Disc five is splendid. I'm listening to Elegia even as I type this. Only real low point (for me) on the whole set is the live version of transmission with the bungled lyrics. (I'm pretty sure a better version could have been had, But we ARE talking about new order, here.)All in all, I'm giving retro a big thumbs up!

As has been stated often on this site, the comparison between Retro and Heart & Soul is utterly redundant. H&S was released as an attempt to comprehensively compile the work of a 'finished' band. No, they didn't include absolutely everything, but it went pretty close. New Order are not a 'finished' band, so that's why we don't have the rarities of the kind that H&S had.You see, the clue is in the title - Retro. As in Retrospective. As in a compilation of previously released material. Just what is it you think you are owed here? Material that the band themselves don't deem worthy of release? A comprehensive compilation of your personal favourites? And think about this if you feel cheated or angry - they don't owe you anything, they don't exist solely for our entertainment.CTB

If NO are not a "finished band" as you say they are doing a very good impression of one having released a whole 2 (one disappointing, one average) new albums since 1989. Why do you think that "Retro" should not be a collection of personal favourites, surely thats EXACTLY what Discs 1 and 2 are. Who are John McCarthy and Miranda Sawyer and why is their opinion of what a best of should contain any more valid than mine or yours or any other NO fan.

As a fan of the band since 1981, and Joy Division beforehand, I hust feel cheated that there is very little on the box set aimed at people like me, who bought the early singles and albums, and that I am expected just to accept the fact that because New Order release something that I should be grateful for that. Given the previous availabilty of most of the tracks on Retro discs 1 and 2 I believe an opportunity has been lost, and I also feel cheateed that I have to wait until they release another box set in the HOPE that they might release tracks unavailable on cd in preference to tracks already widely available or ANOTHER remix disc.

Retrospective - means a look back. it doesn't necessarily cover only previously released material. In fact in its normal context I would say a "retrospective" would represent a comprehensive look back and not a selected one, but that's just my opinion.

Whether New Order owe long standing fans anything or not is a matter of debate, I think they do you obviously think differently. If it wasn't for their long standing fans putting up with their contrary nature which has been both inspiring and irritating at times then I don't think the'd be living in their big expensive houses in Cheshire.

I don't know how long you've been a fan or how easy it is getting hold of their stuff is in Australia, but in the beginning here the band seemed to positively discourage anyone becoming a fan, e.g. unnamed (never mind pictured) or very difficult to read names on their record sleeves, unnanounced gigs, sometimes 30 or 45 minute shambolic sets, no acknowledgement of the audience etc, etc, and yet we stood by them because the music was special, it was MORE than special. The lack of inclusion of the tracks I previously listed, just makes me feel that my support hasn't been worth jackshit, and I am only valued if I am once again willing to put my hand in my pocket. If someone at London Records or within New Order themselves doesn't recognise HOW important the original version of "Ceremony" et al is important to people like me, I just felt there should have been room on a 66 track box set for it (and a few others)

I'd be interested to think whether you or any other fans believe there will be another box set, and when do you think this will happen?

Finally

If New Order don't exist for the entertainment of fans like you and me, then they should cease to exist as a recording artist and touring band and just play amongst themselves for their own enjoyment.

Regards

Ken Firstly, I would argue that NO are 'finished' - the release of GR, HTS and the preparation of the new album are good examples that hey are still a (slow) working unit in 2001/2. When I asked if you thought RETRO should be a compilation of your personal favourites, the emphasis was on the word YOUR - everyone has different tastes, but hurt feelings and comments expressing disappointment with the selection appears as little more than jealousy aimed at Sawyer, Macready etc. Yes, we would have all liked a chance to pick the songs, but that's hardly practical. I don't know if there will be another NO box set - I would imagine not in the forseeable future. I would be as keen as any other longterm fan to see an official release of the 'real' rarities, but I also understand the band's reluctance to release demo material they didn't think should be available. I still maintain that NO don't exist solely for the entertainment of us, and don't 'owe' us anything. If the strength of your argument to the contrary relies on drawing into question the degree of fandom of others, I suggest stronger evidence is needed. I love their music, always have and will, but ultimately it's their music, and their decision to do with it what they want. If Barney didn't like the sound of his vocals on the original version of Ceremony, for example, then surely that overrides your seemingly desperate desire to have it released. And dare I say, that's fair enough. I'd suggest vote with your wallet - London exist solely as a corporate entity, so express your disappointment by not buying RETRO. Opinions only! CTB

Everyone sing along now:

Box sets, I've had a few But then again, too few to mention But this New Order set Just seems to be without redemption They planned it very poorly The tracklist fills me with dismay Except for the live disc Which has Turn My Way

I actually liked Hookey's idea of issuing the box set with blank discs...THAT would be novel.

THEN how would you all feel? I say...if you don't like the trak listing, don't buy it. If you did buy it...Shut Up already and be thankful that someone at their record company has enough faith in them as a relevant band to issue a box set!!!!

I have said before, and I will say it again. If I were making a box set targeting the mainstream fan and the semi rabid fan, then I would pretty much do the same exact thing as they did. It is a great box for anyone other than the rabid fan. The only thing I would do differently is fill the 5th disk. There was space left and they could have added a few more rarities. I love disks 2 - 5, and disk 1 is pretty much what the other compilations have. I am a rabid fan, and have been for 19 years. I give Retro a big thumbs up.

Retro is MUCH better than I thought it would be. Nearly all of everyone's favourites put in a nice order, some remixes I'd never bothered buying when they came out, and a couple of marginally better live recordings than I already had of a couple of tracks. Throw in a typically enigmatic and frustrating booklet, and you get the perfect New Order product.

Well, guys...I will be happy to no avail if I can even afford to buy an NO box set, whether it be International, Retro or Crystal Days (which I *JUST* found out about after reading this thread)! The economy in California (US) sucks right now, so it is nearly impossible for me to get a new contract at my temp agency (i.e. $5.00 in my bank account), let alone a job...I'm happy if I have enough money to refuel the car! And you guys have to remember: out here, it'll be harder to find a box-set like Crystal Days as only they are sparcely available at many of the local record companies (as in "they have no problem ordering 50,000 N'STYNC box-sets but will look at you funny when you mention the name New Order"). So---same old tracks or not---I will probably get stuck with International or possibly Retro, as any other cool box-sets will be hard to find (don't get me wrong, but of course I will try to find these jems online)...

No offense, but to all you sods crying about not having your favorite tracks on these: BITE ME...PISS OFF! :finger: At least you have the goddamned box set(s)! :hate:

I'm sorry, but I live in f*****g Brazil and one Dollar costs 3,6 brazilian Reais, and one britsh Pound costs 6,00 brazilian Reais, so I had to pay more than R$ 300,00 including taxes and hated the damned box, so I feel in my right to complain about something that makes me sick.

No offense, but to all you sods crying about not having your favorite tracks on these: BITE ME...PISS OFF! :finger: At least you have the goddamned box set(s)! :hate:

Word of advice matey - have you seen Mr Disco's avatar ? Thems "don't f*ck with me" eyes if ever I saw 'em.

Don't give him too much sh!t will ya ;)

Word of advice matey - have you seen Mr Disco's avatar ? Thems "don't f*ck with me" eyes if ever I saw 'em.

Don't give him too much sh!t will ya ;)

..Come on, Jordan.. mummy always told me that my eyes say "Help me, I'm fragile". :) :D ;) :evil: :shy:

Besides, if you think I look that bad, you should meet the rest of the NewOrder-Brasil guys.

Well, hey...I wouldn't know that. Besides, I was bitching at everyone in general...can you blame me? Sorry!

Now, Mr. Disco and I have something in common: we both neither have the money nor the resources to get what we want, and we have to deal with half-assed product! :(

Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!

Ta!

Originally posted by Ness Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!Thanks

The quote says "WUM" but the number of posts suggests not. Perhaps we need a poll to decide ;)

Ness my friend, search this Forum for the appropriate thread(s) & you will find the answers. :D

Originally posted by Ness Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!Ta!

I think we have created a tale that will not die.

Oh, damn...that's so funny! I can't wait to look for the hidden (Love Vigilantes) track on "Retro"! LOL!!!!

Originally posted by M. Domingo Oh, damn...that's so funny! I can't wait to look for the hidden (Love Vigilantes) track on "Retro"! LOL!!!!

I believe someone has already described the steps you need to follow...

..Well, despite the poor quality of it´s content, the artwork is great, so I´ll use that globe as my avatar (so I hope not scaring people anymore)

Originally posted by Mr. Disco ..Well, despite the poor quality of it´s content, the artwork is great, so I´ll use that globe as my avatar (so I hope not scaring people anymore)

Thats better...you even SCARED me before!I thought it was a WANTED(DEAD or ALIVE) poster!:D:D:D:D:D

Thats better...you even SCARED me before!I thought it was a WANTED(DEAD or ALIVE) poster!:D:D:D:D:D

..I know what you´re saying, but please.. that was only my license picture, for God´s sake!!! :D

Originally posted by Mr. Disco > Thats better...you even SCARED me before!I thought it was a WANTED(DEAD or ALIVE) poster!:D:D:D:D:D

..I know what you´re saying, but please.. that was only my license picture, for God´s sake!!! :D

I would not worry too much Mr. Disco, why do you reckon neither Rocket nor meself do include our avatars?

I would not worry too much Mr. Disco, why do you reckon neither Rocket nor meself do include our avatars?

..´Cause you guys are afraid of marriage proposals? :thoothless:

Originally posted by ShugZV©
> Originally posted by Patrick> > > > Originally posted by Ness> > Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!> > > > Ta!>

I think we have created a tale that will not die.

That's nothing......I've just heard that Love Vigilanties is not even one of the hidden tracks

On the contrary, it is. But it is an interactive track (actually, a video), and you will need a computer to play it. Very interesting video with Barney as a soldier in Vietnam.

For people without money for Retro... can't you sell blood plasma for $ like we can? My wife and child are doing it right now in order to buy food after I spent all the grocery money buying a special edition of Retro off Ebay for $90 that indeed does have the hidden TPK track.

Originally posted by ShugZV©
> Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert> > > > Originally posted by ShugZV© > > > > > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > > > > > > > > > Originally posted by Ness> > > > Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!> > > > > > > > Ta!> > > > > >

I think we have created a tale that will not die.

That's nothing......I've just heard that Love Vigilanties is not even one of the hidden tracks

On the contrary, it is. But it is an interactive track (actually, a video), and you will need a computer to play it. Very interesting video with Barney as a soldier in Vietnam.

I thought the bit where Barney jumps out the Helicopter to the tune of "Love Vigilanties" was in poor taste myself

I have to agree with you. On the contrary, Steve is perfect as a tank driver.

Too funny! Does Gillian (or Phil Cunningham) operate the big gun on the tank? :)

Actually, I like that new avatar, Mr Disco...although I didn't have a problem with your old one!

For my own avatar, I originally wanted a black or white version of the Factory Records symbol, much like the one on the CD for 24HPP...but alas, I couldn't find one.

I see.. well, you could just change the colors on Photoshop, but I think it's OK in black & yellow. it's a great logo.

Retro is ok apart a bit of the pop disc

How disappointing is Retro???????

NOT

AT

ALL

DISAPPOINTING.

Jesus, this is New Order after all.

FAO anyone pissed off about the cost. From my own experience: go to an independent store. Got my Retro set a couple of months after release date. Got the 5 disc set for €49.99. 4 disc set on sale in the major chains for €60 plus. :p

Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert > Originally posted by ShugZV© > > > > Originally posted by Tout est devenu vert> > > > > > > Originally posted by ShugZV© > > > > > > > > > > Originally posted by Patrick> > > > > > > > > > > > > Originally posted by Ness> > > > > Can anyone tell me how to find the hidden tracks??? Would love to know!> > > > > > > > > > Ta!> > > > > > > > > >

I think we have created a tale that will not die.

That's nothing......I've just heard that Love Vigilanties is not even one of the hidden tracks

On the contrary, it is. But it is an interactive track (actually, a video), and you will need a computer to play it. Very interesting video with Barney as a soldier in Vietnam.

I thought the bit where Barney jumps out the Helicopter to the tune of "Love Vigilanties" was in poor taste myself

I have to agree with you. On the contrary, Steve is perfect as a tank driver.

I liked the part they fought bikini girls with machine guns...

I love retro and I buy everything they release. Really like the picture book.