honest opinions on brotherhood!

ok. so, brotherhood was the first NO album i *really* got into and for some reason it still connects with me more than any other. i may have to argue that it is among their best(maybe not?), each song has a moment that simply clicks. so discuss the positive and negative merits of this album.

My favourite track is "Angel Dust" - amazing. Positives include "Paradise" and "State Of The Nation", although I don't believe early copies of the album carried SOTN, and I'm not sure whether it appears on the album in all countries.

Negatives? Well, I'm sure a lot of people here will strongly disagree, but I've never rated "Bizarre Love Triangle" (except in the Shep Pettibone extended version, as found on "Substance"). Also, "Every Little Counts" comes across as just a joke at the listener's expense. There's also at least one acoustic track too many, and the acoustic ones sound a little samey IMO.

Overall, I'd rate "Brotherhood" as New Order's weakest studio album, although I admire its innovations. Admire more than actually like, I guess. Certainly, the preceding "Low-life" and the succeeding "Technique" are both far better, IMO, although "Low-life" loses points for me by not including the full-length version of "Perfect Kiss".

Brotherhood is an underated New Order album. Paradise,BLT,SOTN, Angel Dust plus heaps of other great tracks. BLT was huge in Australia (top 10) and who can forget All Day Long. Brotherhood has a lot in common with Get Ready.

i think its a good NO album to start with!

Originally posted by almanso the best IMHO. it just has everything... no words to describe it.

almanso! :)

Quite an interesting concept album without meaning to be, I think, as all the tracks on side A (tracks 1-5 for non-LP owners) feature Gillian on guitar (that's a sequenced backing track on Paradise, BTW), whereas on side B the band go for a more plinky-plonky sound.

A good variety of tracks, but I'm afraid it's not in my top three.

Great album for me...Paradise, As it is when..., Angel Dust, BLT, Broken Promise, Way of life, etc.

I like 'em all.

Well done NO !!!!!!!!

Brotherhood is a very underrated NO album, and subsequently is my joint 3rd favourite album (tied with Get Ready), with Technique and PCL first and second respectively.

"Brotherhood" is my favorite NewOrder album ever, it seems to have been forgotten by most, but i love it to death, Hooky's basslines are fantastic, and the album has an even flow to it.

It's better than bloody "Republic"!

I like Brotherhood, but I had a hard time with it when it came out because LowLife was the one I compared it to.

I liked their use of string sounds on Bizarre Love Triangle, Every Little Counts and especially All Day Long.

If only it wasn't so muddy.

I don't like it and never will. It's my least favourite NO album, even Movement sounds better to my ears. Yet it contains some good tracks like Paradise.

brotherhood was my favourite NO album back in the late '80s/early '90s, then i thought it sounded a bit dated when i listened to it later on, compared to low-life and PC&L which still sounded really fresh and unique. hence, i didn't listen to it that often during the 1990s.

now, however, i've given it another chance and i enjoy it a lot more. paradise is one of my all-time favourites, and BLT, all day long and every little counts are up there, as well. basically, the more i listen to it now, the more i like it. i guess i'm 'discovering' it again, in a way.

It's my fave LP by NO, I love all of the songs and they fit together very well. I'm one who doesn't consider SOTN as part of the album, as it isn't on the vinyl version, which is what I play.

The main reason this album had a had time is that is had to follow Low Life, which followed PC&L - had acts to follow - probably the best back to back albums by just about any band ever. Also, the album marked a definite stronger move towards the club/dance scene - a step (almost prophetic) towards the ultra dancy (ultra-incredible) Technique. Sometimes transition albums are uncomfortable, and I think there is a little of that in BH. I like it but, for me, it stands as the needed bridge between two great lands - the NO of old, and the NO of today.

I think it's production sucks arse, but the songwriting is at the top of the class. Pop hooks are all over the place, I still can't believe it didn't sell (only #161 in USA Albums Chart).

Bizarre Love Triangle should have had a 3rd chorus, Weirdo needed one more verse and a shorter outro, and Way Of Life's bridge should have been removed. Do that and you have three killer singles.

Every Little Counts was rubbish and should never have made the album, it would have been so much stronger ending with Angel Dust.

Better live than on record - never happy with the production. Track by track :

Paraquat - vastly overrated early version of Crystal (check the guitar parts if you don't believe me) Weirdo - down there in the all-time worst 10 As It Is When It Was - genuinely good song Broken Promise - never quite made the transition from live to record in one piece Way of Life - was this some kind of joke ? They were clearly very short on inspiration around this time BLT - far and away the best version of this excellent track - pisses all over any later versions both live and on record ! Angel Dust - criminally under-rated, a great live track All Day Long - not a personal favourite, but quite a nice tune underneath the banal rhymes that Barney calls lyrics Every Little Counts - sheer embarrassment. It's not a joke, it's not even funny. A band who had run out of things to say/do for a while.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Angel Dust - criminally under-rated, a great live track

I knew I liked Angel Dust and now I will not change my opinion.:) Still like the whole of the album and it is up there with my other favourites.

Great songs, dodgy production. Having all the rockier tunes on one side doesn't work too well either.

I put it 3rd/4th with Get Ready, I think their of a fairly similar standard. Technique and Low Life are definitely the best for me. It seems a bit unbalanced to me, even though I don't consider there a song I don't like on there, and many are wonderful tracks.

The production is a bit of a sore point with me, something a little digital remastering could do wonders for. I think I prefer the guitar based stuff is better than the electronic stuff on the album, has more of a pulse to it.

Cheers ALEX

Put BrotherMonkey on the cassette recorder today and ask your friend to identify the age of it ... they will be stumped and scrambling for eggs. There is one simple reason; it is a timeless classic.

The production is superb, it broadcast the important fact that New Order didn't need or wish to sound polished. It is this essence that appeals to most NO fans, the ability to think; I can do that.

Most outstanding element; Bernard's quite startlingly beautiful (and extremely sing'able) vocal and guitar melodies, coupled with throbbing bass, keyboards and drums.

Bliss!

Bad production my arse. Why does everything have to be swimming in syrup? - surely that would spoil a first class pancake.

It's not syrup that is called for, it's some kind of clarity. Only the last four tracks and As It Is have any kind of decent production - the guitars on Weirdo and Broken Promise sound like wannabes with cheapo amps.

I actually end up playing brotherhood probably more than any of their studio albums, so for along time I used to think it was my favorite, but really I think that it's more due to the fact that there's probably more songs on that album that sound better on the record than any of their other albums.

paradise--good either way. great guitar live, better chorus studio.

weirdo--hooky's bass is pretty good on the album. live this is up there w/ love less as just 3 minutes of nothing.

as it is...--more powerful outro live but i like the aucoustic guitars on the studio version as well.

broken promise--there are some pretty energetic live versions i guess

way of life--i actually rate this song pretty high. the break is kinda bouncy on the record

Overall the first side has some great bass melodies, but the guitar just isn't there compared to the live stuff.

BLT--the one song here that i think is served by the scratchy guitar sound that permeates the rest of the record. pretty definitive version and the only studio version that preserves the bass drum beat of the live version.

All day long--probably in my top 5 new order songs ever, but crap live.

angel dust--hated it when i first heard it, but took me seeing it live to really get it.

every little counts--i kinda like it. a sense of humor was never that evident from the band on record before unless you count the runoff groove notations

Second side does a nice job capturing that certain melancholic energy (or is it energetic melancholy) that I like about much of the bands studio stuff.

Overall the singing's fairly pretty, bass lines pretty melodic, guitar kinda tinny, but I like it. Its similar to Closer. Maybe not full of classic tracks but it's got the definitive versions of several definitive tracks and also seems to be divided in to two seperate sets. Rock songs on side one, more soundscape stuff on the second side.

Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Every Little Counts - sheer embarrassment. It's not a joke, it's not even funny. A band who had run out of things to say/do for a while.

ok, maybe the intro is a rip-off of 'walk on the wild side', but i think it's a fantastic little tune. ridiculous, yes, but they know it's silly and you can picture barney blushing as he's laughing through the lyrics--there's something endearing and unaffected about it. i also love the way all the instruments come together as the song reaches the end. a perfect way to finish the album.

Love this album very much and still rate it in the TOP 3. Wish i had bought the METALLIC LP VERSION though cos i still don't own a copy of this on VINYL!

I've always liked this album a lot. In fact, bordering blasphemy, I think I might like it more than Low Life.:evil: I've always like "Paradise" and "Weirdo" and of course "Bizarre Love Triangle", but "All Day Long" is just an amazing track. "Angel Dust" is underrated too. Overall, I think this album doesn't get it's full credit. It's not polished like others, instead being more raw. You can tell Barney's singing has much improved on this one compared to earlier albums (Face Up, anyone?).

Great raw album. Love it a lot!

Originally posted by AgentWood > Originally posted by Benny's Cobweb Eyes Every Little Counts - sheer embarrassment. It's not a joke, it's not even funny. A band who had run out of things to say/do for a while.

ok, maybe the intro is a rip-off of 'walk on the wild side', but i think it's a fantastic little tune. ridiculous, yes, but they know it's silly and you can picture barney blushing as he's laughing through the lyrics--there's something endearing and unaffected about it. i also love the way all the instruments come together as the song reaches the end. a perfect way to finish the album. i absolutely ADORE Every Little Counts. it's such a beautiful song musically, and the lyrics are such a fabulous pisstake.

Brotherhood is the first album I really got into, liked it better than Low Life for a while. Went off it for a bit, but have learned to appreciate it again since. Would put it below LL and Technique, about even with GR.

The production is a little rough and could do with a remastering, but I kinda like the way all the growling, thrashing guitars meld together on the first side...lots of energy. Hooky has some great basslines throughout (including on this version of BLT). I like Barney's lyrics and singing too.

AIIWIW is a great downtempo, soulful/wistful look at loss and loneliness and All Day Long is a serious contender for Most Beautiful Song Ever.

And I think ELC is a great tongue-in-cheek outro...I wish they'd done as Steve wanted and put appropriate "crashes" on the CD and cassette versions as well. I had a friend who used to play this whenever he DJed just to scare people.

I made a point to buy the CDs without the extra tracks (BHood and PCL). Sometimes my inner purist gets loose.

An album that took me some time to get into. My favourites now are:

• paradise, as it is when it was, all day long, angel dust Paradise for example needed me to watch reading98 to appreciate it. Now the funny thing is that the reading98 version starts to "bore" me a little while the b'hood version still sounds very ok.

Listening to some of the tracks off it now, you can't beat New Order, simple as that. It carries the spirit that makes them great. Unbridled, raw emotion. So what ever the ranking, it captures the essence of NO, and thats enough.

Cheers ALEX

Absolutely adore it - there's a lot of songs on there that are classic singalongs (when no-one else is around!) with such simple melodies.

I've recently been playing it a bit more, as quite a few of the tracks are on Retro Disc 2, which I prefer out of the first 3 discs in the set.

Anyway, this is what the band thinks of it (from that Uncut interview):

Stephen Morris: "It was a bit higgledy-piggledy." Gillian Gilbert: "One side was acoustic, the other electronic. I don't like the songs as much as our others. I don't like the sleeve. I don't like the name." Peter Hook: "There are some really good songs on it. Some of the best music Is made when you're desperately unhappy or desperately fighting, Isn't it?" Bernard Sumner: "It's not as good as Low-Life. I remember going on holiday to Corfu, playing it on a Walkman and thinking, 'Fucking hell, that's shit.' What songs are on it? [Uncut reels off tracklisting]. Really? Well, fuck that, then. It sounds like a good album."

l8rs,

Nick ;)

Originally posted by KW1 If only it wasn't so muddy.

My sentiments exactly! As I've said many times before.

They exagerated the pop in it.It´s not my favourite New Order album but it has the eternal hit BLT :)

I still have to rate Brotherhood as one of my favorite albums, but I'm very biased about what I like in new order and that's Peter Hook's bass.

To this day as much as I love Technique I hate that Hook only appears in bits in pieces on songs like "fine time," "vanishing point," Dream attack" etc etc. Although if did fortell of his virtual disapperance from Republic.

From, Will

Great Album. Can't really decide which 80's studio album is the best. They are wery equall to me. All very, very good records.

I have SOTN 12", and I don't count it as a one of the Brotherhood songs, although it would have been a nice add in somewhere between the acoustic songs in the side-a.

Every Little Counts is a question mark, and I used to think it's a bit useless. Nowdays I don't mind it anymore. It's kind of funny drugs&bear&no sleep -kind of outburst.

The b-side is pure class besides ELC. Bizarre Love Triangle - All Day Long - Angel Dust is my number one New Order trio. Just above Mr. Disco - Vanishing Point - Dream Attack.

I leave it at home when i come to uni. I really don't like it. Probably my least fave album by NO.

Funny, I used to love it and it was my favourite for a while. , but I hadn't listened to it for over a year until Brotherhood Survivor started. When Brotherhood came out, BLT was my immediate choice as best track, but some of the songs do really grow e.g. Angel Dust. I'll immerse myself in it for the next week or so and will post again!

I just think that at the time they had rather lost their way with songwriting - Low Life and its immediate few weeks afterwards had produced a dozen songs (inc. Let's Go, As It Is and SOTN), but Weirdo always sounded to me like they didn't really know what to do with it. Broken Promise changed a lot from the early live versions in October 85, and then BLT came along a month later. After getting most of these sorted out to their satisfaction in the first part of 1986, we then got Paradise (not that bad) and the half-arsed Way of Life. When it came to the recording of the album they then came up with another four songs in the studio, two of which were ok. I still think that half the album is weak, and remember being very disappointed when I first heard it after months of anticipation and live evolution.

I love this album, Brotherhood. When it came out I was a little disappointed because it did not follow through with the electronics like LL did. However, as time goes by, I came to appreciate more and more. Benard's voice FINALLY reached a point of quality (too high pitched on LL). The acoustic songs are timeless. My hippie Uncle even bought it because they played the acoustic set at the record store when he was in. Like the others said, BLT without all that rubbish. This is the album you can play for your dorkie hippie friends.

Interesting to see such a divided opinion. Maybe the fact that it's completely different to everything else they've done has something to do with it.

For me, it's easily no. 2 (Technique being 1, of course). Even the weaker somgs have their charms.