Peter Hook Music Complete mock up
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Peter Hook Battles On...
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Went to that gig and was won over.
Then I'm reminded of what an arsehole he is whenever someone sticks a keyboard or dictaphone in front of him...
Not reading the article because his words are beyond meaningless to me these days.
"Hooky Incomplete." - I couldn't have put it better myself.
Old Blue wrote: Went to that gig and was won over.
Then I'm reminded of what an arsehole he is whenever someone sticks a keyboard or dictaphone in front of him...
i went to his hull gig on the night music complete came out and like you was won over
then at the last encore he walks out with a copy of the days sun pretending to read the no interview and started slagging barney so thats the last light gig i go to
my mrs works in mental health and thinks he's going to have a breakdown[eek3]
I agree, I think the word he has removed from his vocabulary is integrity...
Hooky get your act together...
Sage_ wrote: Hahah he says The Light will eventually perform Music Complete. Imagine that.
He doesn't have the chops to play People on the Highline. That's too sophisticated a bassline for his simplistic playing style.
Not really disagreeing with anything anyone has said and not diminishing what a great album MC is, I kinda would love to hear what Hooky would bring to a lot of the tunes on the album.
For a person who left New Order behind him, he still seems to pay them an inordinate amount of attention. Each insult that escapes his mouth is damaging his "legal case" against the remaining members. I actually get the impression he envies the success New Order have enjoyed with Music Complete and wishes now that he was a part of that, all the while knowing that he could have been if he had somehow harnessed his demons. It's sad for New Order, Hooky and the fans.
I doubt they will ever work together again, but they could at least declare a ceasefire and become civil. I know I'm boring, but Hooky should reform Monaco and start writing new stuff. Old New Order is over; time to move on.
truefaith1.0 wrote: For a person who left New Order behind him, he still seems to pay them an inordinate amount of attention. Each insult that escapes his mouth is damaging his "legal case" against the remaining members. I actually get the impression he envies the success New Order have enjoyed with Music Complete and wishes now that he was a part of that, all the while knowing that he could have been if he had somehow harnessed his demons. It's sad for New Order, Hooky and the fans.
Ironically, if New Order released the same album with Hooky, it wouldn't have got the euphoric reviews. I guess the critics then would have written it off as more of the same. The surprise that the band can come up with a record like this without Hooky (who was always a bit overrated concerning his input in the general sound minus his bass) has build the momentum. Sumner is smart enough to exactly know what he can get away with it concerning a Hookyless New Order.
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“I saw them promoting their new LP in a very safe and normal fashion,” he says. “It was quite sad – I was thinking we used to be so revolutionary, and now they’re boring old men.”
I don't see what New Order are doing now to promote the album that is any less different than what they've been doing since in the early 90s with Hooky still in the band. This statement is just pure bitter jealously, plain and simple.
Moderne Decay wrote: “I saw them promoting their new LP in a very safe and normal fashion,” he says. “It was quite sad – I was thinking we used to be so revolutionary, and now they’re boring old men.”
I don't see what New Order are doing now to promote the album that is any less different than what they've been doing since in the early 90s with Hooky still in the band. This statement is just pure bitter jealously, plain and simple.
Safe and boring, like being on Baywatch when Hook was in the band? Safe and boring, like doing interviews in The Sun, which also happened when Hook was in the band? Safe and boring, like playing on TV shows which also happened when Hook was in the band?
He's spunking so much goodwill by being so bloody angry about absolutely everything. As well as being factually inaccurate on certain things.
markreed wrote:
Moderne Decay wrote: “I saw them promoting their new LP in a very safe and normal fashion,” he says. “It was quite sad – I was thinking we used to be so revolutionary, and now they’re boring old men.”
I don't see what New Order are doing now to promote the album that is any less different than what they've been doing since in the early 90s with Hooky still in the band. This statement is just pure bitter jealously, plain and simple.
Safe and boring, like being on Baywatch when Hook was in the band? Safe and boring, like doing interviews in The Sun, which also happened when Hook was in the band? Safe and boring, like playing on TV shows which also happened when Hook was in the band?
He's spunking so much goodwill by being so bloody angry about absolutely everything. As well as being factually inaccurate on certain things.
Basically whatever they do Hooky will get arsey about. If they'd promoted the album in a really revolutionary way he'd moan about it. If they played a whole set live of songs they'd never played or hadn't played since 1982 he'd moan that they don't play the hits.
ersatz01 wrote:
Sage_ wrote: Hahah he says The Light will eventually perform Music Complete. Imagine that.
He doesn't have the chops to play People on the Highline. That's too sophisticated a bassline for his simplistic playing style.
I must say that I was really impressed with the basslines for 2-8-Fruit-8 and People On the High Line. Thinking that was very John Taylor (Duran2) or Bernie Edwards. However, just having attended the Stockholm show, standing at the front rails right in front of TommyC, I saw that he is not playing as much as what is heard on the album --- e.g. lot some of the bass lines are synth based.
Love Hooky, love the Light, love New Order. Cheers!
Maybe it may come across as a bit cliché, but it seems very old hat, very straight forward and basically psych 101 when you look at the break up. In many ways it kind of seems like this is the third New Order break up since 1989. I don't know any of these people in the slightest, but like many of you I imagine, I have read innumerable things they've said over the decades, and what always came across to me was just the classic psychological contrasts between the individuals in the band: Bernard coming across like a solitary, insular guy, introverted, perfectionist, Hooky, the sort of pirate, outsized figured, loved touring, loved attention, loved being a part of a "gang", Stephen, the academic with the crystal clear long term recall, and detail orientation, and Gillian, and how the two of them might have seemed like the other two as they called themselves, but when you compared their work as solo artists, with that of Bernard or Hooky, it was patently obvious that they were the heart and soul of what made New Order's electronic oriented material so bottomless in it's depth and breadth. Electronic, Revenge, Monaco etc were never able to really capture what made New Order's electronic masterpieces so powerful-thieves, 5 8 6, Blue Monday, Your Silent Face, Sooner than you think, this time of night, BLT, Mr. Disco, Vanishing Point, Special etc, I can hear bits and pieces of those amazing songs in The Other Two. I never heard it in the solo work of Hooky, and Bernard, even in masterpieces like Some Distant Memory or What do you want from me.
However, back to the topic, when it comes to Hooky, it seems plain as day to me and it's a bit odd that Bernard and others don't seem to get it. Hooky was always so immensely proud of the music they built together, the band they created, the mark they've left on the history of music, like some of their hero's, like Velvet Underground when it comes to the sixties or seventies, New Order rarely makes it stateside in "I love the 80's" or 90's type retrospectives or greatest hits bits. But those that really know, those that really dig in, and paid attention know that New Order was every bit as inspirational in the decade as R.E.M. or U2 or Michael Jackson, or Metallica, or Madonna, or Public Enemy, NWA, or the Sugar Hill Gang etc. All of that means a ton to him obviously, and it seems clear to me that he comes across almost like an eager puppy, he needs attention, appreciation and a sense of his opinion being valued, he's demonstrative, vocal, overtly so, he's passion, in the cliché of fire and ice, obviously he's the fire, while Bernard's the cliche'd ice.
I don't know if his accusations are spot on, and it is interesting to see Gillian/Stephen basically staying on Bernard's side of the argument, whether that's pragmatism (he's the major song writer, or he's the one that's still creative) or if it's over Hooky being out of line I have no idea, though it seemed clear to me that they had big problems with both of them in the nineties and not just Hooky. It just seems like Hooky wanted more voice, Bernard wanted more control and less drama, and Gillian, and Stephen probably less drama too. It's clear who throws the dishes, and screams invective in this band/relationship, but it's not so clear to me whose to blame. I definitely feel that when Hooky did what he did, he wanted to be asked back, he wanted to be appreciated, he wanted some bended knee, some devotion from Bernard, maybe the band, in as much as he was devoted to it, or at least it's history. He didn't receive it, and now he's lashing out.
Maybe I'm just writing fiction in imagining this, but after 8 years of reading about these issues, it seems like the same problem, perpetually being recycled over and over, with Hooky being constantly in need of coddling, attention, and support, and Bernard just wanting peace, and some measure of control for stability (and considering the familial background, it makes sense, since there was so little stability and control in his formative years which tend to be the years that frame our personalties/temperament).
Anyway, that's why I can't get angry at any of them, particularly Hooky. He just seems like an immature guy crying out for the support he expected from the guy he thought had his back, and he didn't get it-the classic scenario of someone storming off saying "I'm leaving" not because they want to, but because they desperately want affirmations of support from their bandmates, and instead he got a cool response.
Regardless of what's behind it, it's nice to see that Music Complete is their best album since Republic and possibly Technique (since Republic had some god awful songs on it, and plenty of middling material to boot), over the past fifteen years I have moved on a nd found/discovered plenty of other bands I've loved from Saint Etienne, to Passion Pit, Koop, the knife, the Orange Peels, white stripes when they were around etc there is always interesting music out there, far more than when I first discovered New Order ('89), but I can honestly say I haven't heard work from New Order that's this impressive in more than twenty years, so props to them, it is incomprehensibly rare for any band, particularly a sort of pop band, to actually make music in their late fifties that would have any relevance to speak of to college students hitting the clubs, but they actually kind of have done just that. Outstanding.
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The Consiglieri wrote: I definitely feel that when Hooky did what he did, he wanted to be asked back, he wanted to be appreciated, he wanted some bended knee, some devotion from Bernard, maybe the band, in as much as he was devoted to it, or at least it's history. He didn't receive it, and now he's lashing out.
Good post, thanks. But honestly, you can't work with someone who's functioning like that. The man was/is in his 50ies, stopped drinking and consciously wanted to break New Order to pieces, maybe to just have the last word after all he felt Sumner did to him, the ultimate revenge ![[:p]](/emoticons/tongue.gif){kind=small}
. Didn't quite work out in the long-run.
He felt sicked and tired of being (or feeling) second best, maybe he needed a psycho analyst (instead).
the_blank_from_hell wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote: I definitely feel that when Hooky did what he did, he wanted to be asked back, he wanted to be appreciated, he wanted some bended knee, some devotion from Bernard, maybe the band, in as much as he was devoted to it, or at least it's history. He didn't receive it, and now he's lashing out.
Good post, thanks. But honestly, you can't work with someone who's functioning like that. The man was/is in his 50ies, stopped drinking and consciously wanted to break New Order to pieces, maybe to just have the last word after all he felt Sumner did to him, the ultimate revenge
He felt sicked and tired of being (or feeling) second best, maybe he needed a psycho analyst (instead).
You only need to read his comments over the past couple of years to understand why this couldn't have ever worked with him continuing.
It's like a broken marriage where you can't ever do anything right. They play new songs - not brave enough. They play old songs - they are copying him. They innovate - it doesn't sound like New Order. They play it safe - it's boring, New Order is about innovation. Tom mimes his bass, Tom copies his bass, Tom just simply cannot play bass, Tom does what he's told, Tom ruins the songs. And so on and so on.
As you say you simply cannot work with a person like that. Music Complete with Hooky would have been an absolute nightmare. Half of the tracks would have ended up on the cutting room floor because he wouldn't be able to get his bass into them, the other half with all of the subtle synth and rhythm guitar removed and replaced with his bass lines.
They are a better band now without him. That's not to say that they would have always been better off without him but it's pretty clear that in almost everything they've made since Technique he's been a hinderance and a burden.
I'd just love it if he could make his peace with it and move on but I just have a horrible feeling that this whole saga will end up consuming him for the rest of his life.
Burai wrote:
the_blank_from_hell wrote:
The Consiglieri wrote: I definitely feel that when Hooky did what he did, he wanted to be asked back, he wanted to be appreciated, he wanted some bended knee, some devotion from Bernard, maybe the band, in as much as he was devoted to it, or at least it's history. He didn't receive it, and now he's lashing out.
Good post, thanks. But honestly, you can't work with someone who's functioning like that. The man was/is in his 50ies, stopped drinking and consciously wanted to break New Order to pieces, maybe to just have the last word after all he felt Sumner did to him, the ultimate revenge
He felt sicked and tired of being (or feeling) second best, maybe he needed a psycho analyst (instead).
You only need to read his comments over the past couple of years to understand why this couldn't have ever worked with him continuing.
It's like a broken marriage where you can't ever do anything right. They play new songs - not brave enough. They play old songs - they are copying him. They innovate - it doesn't sound like New Order. They play it safe - it's boring, New Order is about innovation. Tom mimes his bass, Tom copies his bass, Tom just simply cannot play bass, Tom does what he's told, Tom ruins the songs. And so on and so on.
As you say you simply cannot work with a person like that. Music Complete with Hooky would have been an absolute nightmare. Half of the tracks would have ended up on the cutting room floor because he wouldn't be able to get his bass into them, the other half with all of the subtle synth and rhythm guitar removed and replaced with his bass lines.
They are a better band now without him. That's not to say that they would have always been better off without him but it's pretty clear that in almost everything they've made since Technique he's been a hinderance and a burden.
I'd just love it if he could make his peace with it and move on but I just have a horrible feeling that this whole saga will end up consuming him for the rest of his life.
That's right on. He works in absolutes, and has unhealthy competitive mentality. To him, everything is a battle or war, and now based on fears that the other's children are laughing at his children. It's like Yoda saying about fear leading to anger, anger eading to hate, hate leading to the dark side. I can't be a fan of that nonsense.
Whatever the fuck they do he's gonna hate it. Journos are gonna keep interviewing him cos he's a legend but honestly, we all know what to expect. I really can't get excited about it any more.
Moderne Decay wrote: “I saw them promoting their new LP in a very safe and normal fashion,” he says. “It was quite sad – I was thinking we used to be so revolutionary, and now they’re boring old men.”
I don't see what New Order are doing now to promote the album that is any less different than what they've been doing since in the early 90s with Hooky still in the band. This statement is just pure bitter jealously, plain and simple.
Seriously, what is he even talking about?? He's really not taking this well at all.
'... promoting their new LP in a very safe and normal fashion...' Does the word 'Republic' mean anything to you? It's kinda awesome this is a fan group but even here everyone hates his comments.
The worst part about it is that all his negativity is starting to affect how I hear him on the last couple of albums. Some of the GR, WFTSC and LS tracks, to me nowadays, sound like Hookys bass is proper shoe-horned in. As in, we have to have it in somewhere so just let it play all over that bit.
He's still battling on Irish Mirror
Sort of does well until he descends into name calling with Bernard again a few paragraphs in ![[:(]](/emoticons/frown.gif){kind=small}
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He has talent envy. Electronic made some brilliant records, Bad Lieutenant's worst effort was streets ahead of anything that Hook has done apart from New Order and Joy Division.
I always thought that Revenge was chosen as a band name because of his talent envy.
The events this last couple of years have cemented what I suspected for years. Just looking at the smarting eyes and affected sneer whenever they were all interviewed together - and how those expressions are now permanently etched - tells me that it has been a problem for maybe even decades.
Envy loves to spoil even that which it doesn't covet.
Get Ready wrote: He has talent envy. Electronic made some brilliant records, Bad Lieutenant's worst effort was streets ahead of anything that Hook has done apart from New Order and Joy Division.
I always thought that Revenge was chosen as a band name because of his talent envy.
The events this last couple of years have cemented what I suspected for years. Just looking at the smarting eyes and affected sneer whenever they were all interviewed together - and how those expressions are now permanently etched - tells me that it has been a problem for maybe even decades.
Envy loves to spoil even that which it doesn't covet.
There's an urban legend (i.e. bollocks) that the name Revenge was a retaliation against the 'Lec. It was actually '''''inspired''''' by a George Michael outfit, which is even seedier. Otherwise you're right. I'm amazed people still read his BS when they all know what it's gonna be like and then get annoyed.
If I were in Bernard's shoes, I'll totally revise "Dreams Never End" as an encore with Tom on vocals just to be an ass.
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Michael Monkhouse wrote:
Get Ready wrote: He has talent envy. Electronic made some brilliant records, Bad Lieutenant's worst effort was streets ahead of anything that Hook has done apart from New Order and Joy Division.
I always thought that Revenge was chosen as a band name because of his talent envy.
The events this last couple of years have cemented what I suspected for years. Just looking at the smarting eyes and affected sneer whenever they were all interviewed together - and how those expressions are now permanently etched - tells me that it has been a problem for maybe even decades.
Envy loves to spoil even that which it doesn't covet.
There's an urban legend (i.e. bollocks) that the name Revenge was a retaliation against the 'Lec. It was actually '''''inspired''''' by a George Michael outfit, which is even seedier. Otherwise you're right. I'm amazed people still read his BS when they all know what it's gonna be like and then get annoyed.
The George Michael story was a joke.
The name is actually inspired by the French label that released records by MC5, The Stooges and (wait for it) The New Order:Revenge
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letsplayhooky wrote:
ersatz01 wrote:
Sage_ wrote: Hahah he says The Light will eventually perform Music Complete. Imagine that.
He doesn't have the chops to play People on the Highline. That's too sophisticated a bassline for his simplistic playing style.
I must say that I was really impressed with the basslines for 2-8-Fruit-8 and People On the High Line. Thinking that was very John Taylor (Duran2) or Bernie Edwards. However, just having attended the Stockholm show, standing at the front rails right in front of TommyC, I saw that he is not playing as much as what is heard on the album --- e.g. lot some of the bass lines are synth based.
No discovery here. You can notice clearly two bass tracks directly from the studio version, it's not necessary see Tom C playing live for that. Even so, Hooky would take several reincarnations just to play the live bass track of "People on the High Line".
I will always love Peter Hook.
I am just happy and grateful that Bernard, Stephen,Gillian and Peter are alive. Regardless of how they feel about each other.
SheWasInALine wrote: I am just happy and grateful that Bernard, Stephen,Gillian and Peter are alive.
1.15.57 - 1.60.01 www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSIx6tKT\_Co
Looks like Hooky may have won something. I'm too lazy to try to figure out what exactly.
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He's won the right to continue his high court case for copyright of the name New order from what I can gather off various tweets
I'm sure he'll be blabbing what's gone on soon enough
After that talk of runaway horses, you might think he had actually seen the light at last, but no. It's way too late for name changes now, can't recall all those cds etc, so what is he is he after, compensation? He seems to be vying with constable james anderton in the popularity stakes. 🙄 Won't be reading his book no matter how many pages it has.
Let's just hope he never finds out that Tom doesn't play that funky bassline on POTHL live! You hear it live, but those fingers ain't going to those places!
A different kind of battle for him at the mo
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[TWITTER]677101216489435141[/TWITTER]
Debaser wrote:
[TWITTER]677101216489435141[/TWITTER]
Crikey i reckon that's possibly what i've got, i'm going for an MRI scan in a few weeks to try and get to the bottom of what the problem is.Been off work sick for a month.Shoulder and right arm in a lot of pain and am on painkillers.Agree with Hooky on Toast Of London - love that show, my favourite thing on telly at the moment.
He must have some interesting conversations with the son of Hooky about doing full albums.
I quite like some of the album tours, the Jesus and Mary chain doing psycho candy was amazing and I love the The Light doing there thing, so each yo their own
Hooky needs to try to think out of the box. He could focus upon doing lengthy remixes of every song - who wouldn't love 10-13 minute versions of dream attack, every little counts,special,draculas castle, or guilt ..., or dozens more? Sure I love the J and M chain ,pink floyd and the light and the bunniymen doing whole albums , but now that we have Dennis Remmer's brilliant reviews, and years ahead of great new songs and tours, it makes sense to have all those remix people get to work on the whole catalog of songs. If bernard can think out of the box,vortex,and worm holes, and act cool like copernicus,Newton ,shakespeare,and mozart,the least hooky can do is help get those remixes out.
KIC knocks the nail on the proverbial head again. How does he know? What's his secret? I guess we'll never know. Hooky is currently collaborating with John Lennon and Melanie C on a 496193096749-year remix of Dream Attack to close his last concert in Stoke, France, next Fall's August for munchkins to pave the yellow-prick road to too. Official.
Maestro MM- Galileo and Leo da vinci are smiling down on you, and if you continue honoring nool with your wisdom and wit, you will be cooler than Copernicus and dear sweet darling bernard
