FAVE STUDIO LP.

C'mon, everybody knows the answer: TECHNIQUE... boring.

It's my answer, too, ha ha. BUT my second fave album is Waiting For The Siren's Call. :D

Brotherhood, once again. An album that came along at the right time in my life. Just edges out PC&L and Low-life.

|| | ||| 6217|| 8 || 3 wrote: C'mon, everybody knows the answer: TECHNIQUE... boring.

It's my answer, too, ha ha. BUT my second fave album is Waiting For The Siren's Call. :D

Looks like 2 people think WFTSC is the best Studio LP ever - this is what i'm wondering - how has WFTSC, and the passing of a few more years, affected peoples views?

After more than a decade and a half technique is still lording it!

I still need to give the albums more of a solid listen but at the moment - Power, Corruption & Lies.

It's a nobrainer isn't it? Technique.

Let's have a look at my relative feelings for the others..

Lowlife Power, Corruption and Lies Waiting for the Siren's Call Movement Brotherhood Republic/Get Ready

Even so, Republic and Get Ready have some cracking choons on them. Regret and Crystal stand out as probably their strongest singles to modern crowds, but then you have Temptation, and naturally, True Faith.. oh, sigh. It's times like this that make me realise how much I like them all.

I don't know how anyone could seriously put Brotherhood as their favourite album... I've only ever listened to it once all the way through. And I don't think I've tried to listen to the album for a couple of years now.

DShamen wrote: I don't know how anyone could seriously put Brotherhood as their favourite album... I've only ever listened to it once all the way through. And I don't think I've tried to listen to the album for a couple of years now.

Your loss then there, mate!

Overall favourite will always be Technique, closely followed by PC&L. Don't think any of NO's albums can be judged on one listen though. Brotherhood is certainly no worse than Republic !

I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

I rank them thus;

1. Technique.
2. PC&L / LowLife / Get Ready.
3. Movement / Brotherhood / Republic.
4. WFTSC.

Had to put six LP's in joint positions...

Love all 8 of them though.

Low-Life Brotherhood Movement WFTSC Technique PC&L Get Ready Republic

oldmonkey wrote: I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

IMO Hannett was the key to why Movement is the best. As I said here : http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731

I'd be interested in hearing more of yr thoughts on Brotherhood's production. A little 'of it's time' perhaps?

Today's ranking:

PC&L WFTSC Low Life Movement Technique Republic Get Ready Brotherhood

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

IMO Hannett was the key to why Movement is the best. As I said here : http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731

I'd be interested in hearing more of yr thoughts on Brotherhood's production. A little 'of it's time' perhaps?

I just think that Brotherhood was such a let down, having heard nearly all of the songs evolving in a live environment. They didn't do them justice on the record, it sounds as though it was recorded in a different room. At first I thought I had a dodgy copy, but subsequent purchases of CDs to complement my original vinyl confirmed my fears that it was just an uninspiring production. It didn't help I suppose that the album contains 75% of their weakest song output to these ears, with only BLT really shining through. As It Is was a good song but the production murders it. Broken Promise could have been a good song, it has a killer bassline but the production ruins it, takes the heavy edge off. Weirdo and Way of Life would have been out-takes on any other record. All Day Long should have been an instrumental, the lyrics are cringeworthy. Paradise was a good idea that went wrong in the writing. Every Little Counts is filler, an embarrassment. Angel Dust ain't that bad I suppose. Even State of the Nation, the great white hope for a single, smacks of a band desperate for a bit of inspiration. Safe to say they'd lost their way around this time on the songwriting front, only to find it again for True Faith and 1963.

oldmonkey wrote:

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

IMO Hannett was the key to why Movement is the best. As I said here : http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731

I'd be interested in hearing more of yr thoughts on Brotherhood's production. A little 'of it's time' perhaps?

I just think that Brotherhood was such a let down, having heard nearly all of the songs evolving in a live environment. They didn't do them justice on the record, it sounds as though it was recorded in a different room. At first I thought I had a dodgy copy, but subsequent purchases of CDs to complement my original vinyl confirmed my fears that it was just an uninspiring production. It didn't help I suppose that the album contains 75% of their weakest song output to these ears, with only BLT really shining through. As It Is was a good song but the production murders it. Broken Promise could have been a good song, it has a killer bassline but the production ruins it, takes the heavy edge off. Weirdo and Way of Life would have been out-takes on any other record. All Day Long should have been an instrumental, the lyrics are cringeworthy. Paradise was a good idea that went wrong in the writing. Every Little Counts is filler, an embarrassment. Angel Dust ain't that bad I suppose. Even State of the Nation, the great white hope for a single, smacks of a band desperate for a bit of inspiration. Safe to say they'd lost their way around this time on the songwriting front, only to find it again for True Faith and 1963.

Interesting! I will have a listen and come back on this.

PCL. It was very brave. Imagine 1982 Britain. Japan, Depeche, Duran, Kajagoogoo!!! Human League had recently released a massive LP called Dare. Nearly every song was a single hit. The sleeve screamed DARE.. HUMAN LEAGUE with mugshots. About the same time New Order released Temptation 7" in speckly sleeve. Song title vaguely embossed. you could just see it if you held it at the right angle! No TOTP appearance. BBC on strike! A year later, did they play it different? No. PCL, no name, no title, weird colour code and Laura Ashley flowers. Content very experimental... It was a bloody breath of fresh air

LOW LIFE.

carlo

1. Technique
2. Low Life
3. Movement
4. Brotherhood
5. WFTSC
6. PC&L
7. Get Ready
8. Republic

I cringe to think of what would have occured had Hannett not been holding NO's hand through the baby steps of Movement. Eno possibly could have done a unique, if not necessarily good attempt at chicken-wiring an album out of a couple funeral dirges and faux-goth angsting. He had just recently produced the absolute best Talking Heads lp(Remain in Light) around the time NO were trudging back into the studio after dumping the loopy(Tony Wilson) concept of recruiting Kevin Hewick as New Order/Joy Division's new vocalist, an idea that Hannett summarily shat upon by announcing that they sounded like Fairport Convention and fucking off to bed underneath the producer's controls for the rest of the rehearsal.

Technique for me although I haven't played it for ages. I am getting drawn back to PC&L though. Waiting is still getting played aplenty here though.

so far the voting shows that Republic is better than Get Ready and WFTSC...... shurely shome mishtake?!

We've had 90 votes up to here. The difference isn't significant yet (only a few votes difference)...

What i'm surprised at is that WFTSC is the least favourite amongst fans; it should be at the height of it's popularity at the moment, not a good sign for it's posterity potential...

It's a shame we can't vote for our top three (i.e. your top choice would score 3 points, second choice 2 points, third choice 1 point and highest points out of all votes is the winner) on the poll function thingy... the results would be more interesting then.

So Technique is still the favourite and WFTSC is the least favourite...

Not good for;

http://www.neworderonline.com/Forums/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=22405

Let's hope the next LP fares better in fan opinion...

Just because people voted for their favourite album here, it doesn't make WFTSC the least favourite. Well, it certainly isn't the best they've ever done, so I can understand why only 2 people voted for it, but if you really want to find out whether it's really the weakest or not, I suggest you make a new poll. ;)

I don't want to referee that bunfight - please feel free if you want to!

You got it! :D

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

IMO Hannett was the key to why Movement is the best. As I said here : http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731

I'd be interested in hearing more of yr thoughts on Brotherhood's production. A little 'of it's time' perhaps?

I just think that Brotherhood was such a let down, having heard nearly all of the songs evolving in a live environment. They didn't do them justice on the record, it sounds as though it was recorded in a different room. At first I thought I had a dodgy copy, but subsequent purchases of CDs to complement my original vinyl confirmed my fears that it was just an uninspiring production. It didn't help I suppose that the album contains 75% of their weakest song output to these ears, with only BLT really shining through. As It Is was a good song but the production murders it. Broken Promise could have been a good song, it has a killer bassline but the production ruins it, takes the heavy edge off. Weirdo and Way of Life would have been out-takes on any other record. All Day Long should have been an instrumental, the lyrics are cringeworthy. Paradise was a good idea that went wrong in the writing. Every Little Counts is filler, an embarrassment. Angel Dust ain't that bad I suppose. Even State of the Nation, the great white hope for a single, smacks of a band desperate for a bit of inspiration. Safe to say they'd lost their way around this time on the songwriting front, only to find it again for True Faith and 1963.

Interesting! I will have a listen and come back on this.

The production on Brotherhood is the worse Ive ever come across. It sounds like the whole thing was recorded in a week (except BLT and SOTN). There is such a lack of variety and texture to the album. The guitar tabular on Broken Promise, Way of Life and end of As It Is When It Was are very grating. It just sounds very rushed. Lyrics to Weirdo are just lazy. Only Paradise, BLT, SOTN, and All Day Long have anything remotely like production valued. Maybe it was recorded in a bedroom? Barneys singing isnt as clear as other recordings and lots of songs are just demos (IMO).

NO Regret wrote:

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote:

DC wrote:

oldmonkey wrote: I vaguely recall pontificating on this very subject before, eulogising on why Brotherhood's production was so disappointing, why Low Life drastically needs to be re-edited with something a bit sharper than a blunt trowel, why Technique pisses me off so much these days, and why Movement would have been the best if they'd kept Hannett off the brown.

Today's choice is the juggernaut known as PC&L - it represents such a leap forward, it was the demolition of their own Berlin Wall, the exorcism of Ian Curtis from their studio time and the way forward.

IMO Hannett was the key to why Movement is the best. As I said here : http://ilx.wh3rd.net/thread.php?msgid=5724731

I'd be interested in hearing more of yr thoughts on Brotherhood's production. A little 'of it's time' perhaps?

I just think that Brotherhood was such a let down, having heard nearly all of the songs evolving in a live environment. They didn't do them justice on the record, it sounds as though it was recorded in a different room. At first I thought I had a dodgy copy, but subsequent purchases of CDs to complement my original vinyl confirmed my fears that it was just an uninspiring production. It didn't help I suppose that the album contains 75% of their weakest song output to these ears, with only BLT really shining through. As It Is was a good song but the production murders it. Broken Promise could have been a good song, it has a killer bassline but the production ruins it, takes the heavy edge off. Weirdo and Way of Life would have been out-takes on any other record. All Day Long should have been an instrumental, the lyrics are cringeworthy. Paradise was a good idea that went wrong in the writing. Every Little Counts is filler, an embarrassment. Angel Dust ain't that bad I suppose. Even State of the Nation, the great white hope for a single, smacks of a band desperate for a bit of inspiration. Safe to say they'd lost their way around this time on the songwriting front, only to find it again for True Faith and 1963.

Interesting! I will have a listen and come back on this.

The production on Brotherhood is the worse Ive ever come across. It sounds like the whole thing was recorded in a week (except BLT and SOTN). There is such a lack of variety and texture to the album. The guitar tabular on Broken Promise, Way of Life and end of As It Is When It Was are very grating. It just sounds very rushed. Lyrics to Weirdo are just lazy. Only Paradise, BLT, SOTN, and All Day Long have anything remotely like production valued. Maybe it was recorded in a bedroom? Barneys singing isnt as clear as other recordings and lots of songs are just demos (IMO).

I can't rate B'Hood as highly as the albums that came either side of it, but it's a pretty damn fascinating record. I see why people don't like the production, but I can't agree that it ruins the record. In fact I don't see the point in trying to talk about 'production' as something separate from the record/track itself. The notion that if something was 'better' produced seems pointless - you change one thing and find you that now you dislike something else. Anyway, I digress - it is what it is. It's a minor work, yes, but I think you often learn a lot about a band from flawed work. The grimyness of the 'guitar side' seems like a kickback against the fey janglings that passed for indie music in 1986. Also an interesting contrast to the way that many of NO's comtemporaneous pioneers from a few years back were sounding slicker and slicker with every release - The Cabs and ACR, for example. They sound as if they're simultaneously raging, yet struggling to break free of the dense sound. Most of the songs on side 1 have a vocal melody that is straining to break away towards the sun-kissed glory that Technique unleashed on us 3 years later. It's true that the lyrics sound rushed. But some of the details are fascinating - the paper and comb guitar sound, the meta-fragment of LWTUA in Way Of Life's outro. Actually I could talk about Way Of Life all day - that churning intro, the jaunty chorus and some uncharacteristically loooow bass from Hooky near the end are all wonderful.

Side 2 - is magnificent - as much experimentation here as Movement. I haven't a lot of time right now, so I'll post more on this later if I can. Suffice to say that the sunburst one-two of BLT and All Day Long are a real jolt after the storm clouds of side 1. I disagree about the lyrics of All Day Long - I think Barney has something to say here, and it's worth hearing. Angel Dust doesn't quite work, perhaps sitting uneasily half way between the two faces of NO on this record. Every Second Counts works musically and works to break the tension that has built throughout. So, listen again. Are you really judging this album fairly for what it is, or dismissing it for what it isn't and never could be?

I've voted for Technique but I like very much PCL too.

I'm very sorry to say that WFTSC is not as good as the others, there are good songs but not as good as an LP too much producers perhaps and I don't dislike jetstream (that's not he point).

I don't agree with the "Movement is the worst LP" point of view. That's a good LP; the problem is that is not a real NO LP but a JD LP with Barney and Hooky singing. The turning point was EGG.

Technique is the best to my eyes. WFTSC is the second.