UEFA get it right!

Reds fans labelled Europe's worst

Uefa have criticised Liverpool fans' behaviour A damning report by European football's governing body says Liverpool fans are the worst-behaved in Europe. Uefa says Reds fans have been involved in more incidents in Europe during the past four years than any other club.

Ticketless fans caused trouble at May's Champions League final, although the club criticised security at the game.

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard said: "That was just the latest example. What other fans steal tickets from fellow fans or from the hands of children?"

Uefa's report will be handed to sports minister Richard Caborn on Tuesday.

In it, Uefa paints a damning picture of the Anfield club's supporters' behaviour at the Champions League final against AC Milan in Athens, which the Italian side won 2-1.

Gaillard added: "We know what happened in Athens, and Liverpool fans were the cause of most of the trouble there.

"There have been 25 incidents involving Liverpool fans away from home since 2003 and these are in the report - most teams' supporters do not cause any trouble at all."

Liverpool have sent their own report to Uefa complaining about lax security measures at the final.

You must ask yourself why at the Champions League, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans

Uefa spokesman William Gaillard A club spokesman said: "The shortcomings in the management of the situation in Athens were apparent to anyone who was there.

"This latest statement from Uefa should not deflect attention from that reality."

Many supporters with forged tickets or no tickets at all managed to gain access to the stadium.

Disorder broke out before kick-off when fans were held back because of congestion outside the ground.

Police told fans going through the penultimate checkpoint to slow down or even stop moving, then riot police formed a line to stop other fans joining queues to move through the checkpoint.

Former Conservative leader and Liverpool fan Michael Howard was at the game and said ticket checks at the stadium were "a joke".

How can Uefa choose a football ground without a turnstile - just a metal gate that opens - its just not football is it?"

Liverpool fanzine editor Andy Knott Fans were already aggrieved over Uefa's ticket allocation for the Champions League final, with the governing body making 17,000 tickets available to each club for a stadium that had a capacity of 63,000.

Of those tickets, Liverpool were able to make just 11,000 available to fans because of obligations to sponsors and former players.

But Gaillard said: "You must ask yourself why at the same match, with the same conditions, there was no trouble with the Milan fans - only the Liverpool fans."

But the city of Liverpool hit back at Uefa's criticism.

Lord Mayor Paul Clark was quoted in the Liverpool Daily Post as saying: "Uefa appear to be trying to avoid the blame for the disorganisation of the final."

Les Lawson, spokesman for the official LFC supporters' club, said: "This is typical of Uefa. Rather than look at their own shortcomings, they want to shove the blame somewhere else.

"The fact they are not willing to stand up and take responsibility is worrying for fans, because that means they will never learn from their mistakes."

Council leader Warren Bradley said: "Uefa is dragging Liverpool's name through the mud to deflect attention from themselves.

"There should be a full and appropriate investigation. There is very little information about what actually went wrong.

"It was only a small minority who caused problems but the people at the top of Uefa think they have the divine right to criticise people."

Phil Hammond, of the Hillsborough Justice Support Group, added: "We condemn the behaviour of some fans, but it was not helped by the way the police acted, they made it worse. Uefa are not justified in making these comments."

Andy Knott from the Liverpool fanzine Red All Over told BBC Radio Five Live that both the fans and the authorities were to blame for what happened in Europe this season.

Hopefully UEFA get it right by declaring the Denmark vs Sweden match a draw :D

"Fans were already aggrieved over Uefa's ticket allocation for the Champions League final, with the governing body making 17,000 tickets available to each club for a stadium that had a capacity of 63,000.

Of those tickets, Liverpool were able to make just 11,000 available to fans because of obligations to sponsors and former players."

How many former players do they have?

Snorri xxx

I'm on the run from Interpol, I've got an ever so slightly warm Athens banner in my possession.

Muggin' they're own.

Snorrimon wrote:

Of those tickets, Liverpool were able to make just 11,000 available to fans because of obligations to sponsors and former players."

How many former players do they have?

Snorri xxx

It weren't just sponsors and former players. Every ex-shareholder who was bought out by Hicks and Gillet gets a ticket for every final for life, guaranteed, and season tickets as well, whether you had 1 share or a thousand

How many shareholders will be proper fans? Loads of them woulda been flogged for crazy money

worra tit.

What does the HIllsborough Justice Support Group actually do? Or what does it actually want?

Uncle Liam wrote: What does the HIllsborough Justice Support Group actually do? Or what does it actually want?

They campaign for justice over Hillsborough i.e. they want punishment for those at fault for the disaster. And they help organise the Hillsborough service at Anfield each year.

Someone from them was on the telly the other day saying that standing areas shouldn't be reintroduced, and i think they support anyone from the UK and Europe who've been involved in any type of stadium disaster/incident.

Or something like that.

UEFA have only said what has been patently obvious in English football for decades.

This has got nothing to do with the ticket allocation from UEFA, nothing to do with the distribution by the club and everything to do with the personal responsibilty and decency of the Liverpool supporters.

But of course it's not their fault, everyone's against them aren't they?

Papa Bendi wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote: What does the HIllsborough Justice Support Group actually do? Or what does it actually want?

They campaign for justice over Hillsborough i.e. they want punishment for those at fault for the disaster. And they help organise the Hillsborough service at Anfield each year.

Someone from them was on the telly the other day saying that standing areas shouldn't be reintroduced, and i think they support anyone from the UK and Europe who've been involved in any type of stadium disaster/incident.

Or something like that.

So that would be a campaign to bring the thousands of pissed up Liverpool fans who barged into the ground without tickets causing the whole disaster? Just so we're clear on that.

Gallard or whatever his namwe is, is talking shite.

smokescreen for Uefa's failings.

what are these 25 incidents since 2003? Haven't we not played more games in Europe over the last few years than anyone else? 25 don't sound a lot. what are they?

Ok...the fans who got in without tickets are scum, and shouldn't have travelled. But the ticket allocation and choice of venue was daft.

There's scumbag fans at every club. Liverpook are no different to anyone else.

To single LFC out is a joke.

Here's some incidents Uefa can't be arsed about.

On February 2 a police officer was killed in Sicily when fans rioted during a derby match between Catania and Palermo.

On November 24, 2006, a French police officer shot dead a Paris-Saint Germain football fan after being turned on by a mob during racist violence that followed the team's defeat by Israeli side Hapoel Tel-Aviv.

On Saturday night a referee was attacked on the pitch during an international match between Sweden and Denmark. The game had to be abandoned.

On September 15, 2004, Anders Frisk was forced to abandon the Champions League match between AS Roma and Dinamo Kiev after he was felled by a lighter thrown from the stands.

On April 4 this year 12 Manchester United fans ended up in hospital after Italian Ultra hooligans ran riot around the Roma v United Champions League quarter final.

I noticed you got that from the Liverpool Echo, fair and impartial as ever.

On February 2 a police officer was killed in Sicily when fans rioted during a derby match between Catania and Palermo. This caused an investigation into safetly at all Italian League clubs, which resulted in several clubs being forced to play behind closed doors or with severely reduced capacity.

On Saturday night a referee was attacked on the pitch during an international match between Sweden and Denmark. The game had to be abandoned.

Sweden will be awarded the game 3-0 and Denmark will have points deducted pretty ending their chances of qualifying for the European Championship.

On September 15, 2004, Anders Frisk was forced to abandon the Champions League match between AS Roma and Dinamo Kiev after he was felled by a lighter thrown from the stands.

Roma were punished and had to pay games behind closed doors.

On April 4 this year 12 Manchester United fans ended up in hospital after Italian Ultra hooligans ran riot around the Roma v United Champions League quarter final.

There were arrests, a FIFA investigation (ongoing) and fines.

The fact of this matter is, John, that ytour club has a well deserved reputation of having some of the worst fans in the world. Proof: Heysel. Proof: Hillsborough. Proof: What you lot did to Alan Smiths ambulance. Proof: What happenned in Athens. You dont get Tear gas fired at you for no good reason. Frankly, its almost miraculous that there wasnt another disaster in Athens.

Lest we also forget, its YOUR CLUB that got English clubs banned from Europe for five years.

They're should be a support group for all the people injured and killed and the hands of Liverpool fans over the years. But crikey, it'd be a bloody big group.

you really are a bigger cunt than I originally thought.

Proof Hillsborough!! what the fuck are you talking about? I know a family who's lad died in that. He was no hooligan. he was a kid. Dickhead. south yorks bizzies fault, don't you get it. I can't wait to bump into you next. See what you have to say then, about MY CLUB. but i suppose you'll just shrivel up again like the big pudding you are. CUNT!!

you've made my blood boil with that. No one else goes on about our Fans. just you.

King John Honest John wrote: you really are a bigger cunt than I originally thought.

Proof Hillsborough!! what the fuck are you talking about? I know a family who's lad died in that. He was no hooligan. he was a kid. Dickhead. south yorks bizzies fault, don't you get it. I can't wait to bump into you next. See what you have to say then, about MY CLUB. but i suppose you'll just shrivel up again like the big pudding you are. CUNT!!

you've made my blood boil with that. No one else goes on about our Fans. just you.

"South Yorks Bizzies Fault"? I suppose they asked all the pissed up Liverpool fans without tickets into the ground and told them to start the crush?

EDIT: I'm not suggesting that the people who died were hooligans. No, they were the decent ones who had tickets and got to the match in good time. Not the pissed up ticketless ones who barged in at kick off.

naughty that Liam.

very Naughty.

you are your own worst enemy.

King John Honest John wrote: naughty that Liam.

very Naughty.

you are your own worst enemy.

Can we have something a bit less vague? And since when has stating the facts been naughty?

go fuck yerself CUNT!!

"Uefa get it right". that says it all. you shit stirrin twat.

Uncle Liam wrote: And since when has stating the facts been naughty?

When they're wrong.

King John Honest John wrote: go fuck yerself CUNT!!

"Uefa get it right". that says it all. you shit stirrin twat.

Classy

Uncle Liam wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: go fuck yerself CUNT!!

"Uefa get it right". that says it all. you shit stirrin twat.

Classy

listen prick. i've got more class than you'll ever have. you scruffy twat. if i ever ever ever ever see you again. you are getting filled in big time. no questions. no sorry's. no nothing. you crossed the line there mate. and one day you will get it.

OK. got it now.

no doubt you'll have a good cry to the NOOL Big Brothers over this. but so fuckin what.

King John Honest John wrote:

Uncle Liam wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: go fuck yerself CUNT!!

"Uefa get it right". that says it all. you shit stirrin twat.

Classy

listen prick. i've got more class than you'll ever have. you scruffy twat. if i ever ever ever ever see you again. you are getting filled in big time. no questions. no sorry's. no nothing. you crossed the line there mate. and one day you will get it.

OK. got it now.

no doubt you'll have a good cry to the NOOL Big Brothers over this. but so fuckin what.

No, because the last time you threatened me with violence you then turned around and ran away.

For the record, I work in Manchester, tonight i'll be in Nottingham and Friday night i'll be in Oldham. you can also keep up to date with my whereabouts on My MYSPACE page. So i'm not hard to find.

Uncle Liam wrote:

EDIT: I'm not suggesting that the people who died were hooligans. No, they were the decent ones who had tickets and got to the match in good time. Not the pissed up ticketless ones who barged in at kick off.

Liam

There is nothing to suggest that anyone at Hillborough didn't have a ticket. There were 3 pens at the Leppings Lane end. At kick off the middle one was full and fans were directed to the other two to enter via the turnstiles. Then a senior South Yorks copper requested that the large exit gates were opened to let fans in...

The HJC wants some accountability for this. And also some accountability for the lack of planning in the event of a disaster. (Nothing was learnt from Bradford 4 years previously) The emergency services said all 96 people were dead by 3:06 and there was nothing they could do. 1st hand evidence suggests otherwise and at least some of those lives may have been saved. The inquiry refused to listen to any evidence from after 3:06. The HJC want to know why.

As for Heysel. Yes Liverpool fans were at fault. The fact that their charge across the terraces was nothing worse than occured at nearly every single game in the mid 80's is no excuse. The fact that it was a retaliation against Italians for the way Liverpool fans were attacked in Rome at the Final 12 months previously is no excuse.

But UEFA should have (but didn't) taken some responsibility for holding their showpiece game in a 55 year old, decrepid, crumbling stadium. Edgeley Park is in a better state than Heysel was. Plus UEFA's ticketing policy. The riot occurred in the area sold to local Belgiums who unsuppriingly touted these tickets to anyone, Liverpool or Juve, who would pay.

I've stayed away from these threads. Firstly 'cos I was gutted by the result in Athens, and Secondly because the behaviour of some of our fans had infuriated me (Take a bow, Papa Bendi) But what you, Liam, and UEFA have now said is a step too far.

Any of those 1985 points sound familiar?? UEFA know they dodged a bullet in Athens. (A stadium without turnstiles, FFS!!) and are getting excuses in.

How's this for you...

WILLIAM GAILLIARD uefa director of communications QUOTES...

23 may 2007

"The two groups of supporters (Liverpool and AC Milan) have a tradition of good behaviour and at this point we are expecting that to continue."

3 june 2007

"The incidents involving Liverpool fans have been well known to us before the trouble at the Champions League final which involved Liverpool fans last week."

Leggy D wrote:

Secondly because the behaviour of some of our fans had infuriated me (Take a bow, Papa Bendi)

But...I had a real ticket???

And another point about Heysel.

As 39 fans laid dead, UEFA saw fit to play the game.

And Michel Platini, now current president of UEFA saw fit to celebrate scoring the winning penalty.

Papa Bendi wrote:

Leggy D wrote:

Secondly because the behaviour of some of our fans had infuriated me (Take a bow, Papa Bendi)

But...I had a real ticket???

ok, in that case I apoligise, Papa, but your comments on the Bastido's thread did seem to glorify the "Storm the fuckin gates" attitude.

In fairness Dave, plenty of lessons were learnt from Bardford. The problem there stemmed from there being no workable emergency exit, and the turnstiles being locked. So no one could get out. Having a wooden stand built on what was effectively a rubbish dump didnt help either. So there was plenty of fire, loads of stuff for it to burn and no way of getting out. After that, all grounds had to put in the big exit points you see at grounds now.

Anyway, at Hillsborough:

a) why were thousands of fans late? Everyone surely knew what time the game kicked off.

b) why did people continue to try and get in to areas that were clearly full? I've seen the footage on the telly, and that ground looks like something you'd see in the 3rd world. I remember a conversation I had in a pub with Nottingham with my mates dad and some of his mates, who were at the game saying that the whole of that side of the ground was clearly overcrowded and that it had filled up quite dramatically immediately before the game.

as for Heysel, yes, Liverpool should take responsibilty. But you cant go shifting the blame to UEFA for choosing where to play the game. And as for the Belgian fans shifting their tickets, well this has happenned as countless football games before and since. Its not like its an unusual practice.

Leggy D wrote:

Papa Bendi wrote:

Leggy D wrote:

Secondly because the behaviour of some of our fans had infuriated me (Take a bow, Papa Bendi)

But...I had a real ticket???

ok, in that case I apoligise, Papa, but your comments on the Bastido's thread did seem to glorify the "Storm the fuckin gates" attitude.

I understand what you mean.

Don't get me wrong, what happened shouldn't of happened. I'd have been quite happy to have me ticket checked and gone through the cordons properly, but when you're in the middle of hundreds of Scousers and you're just getting carried along, there's not much you can do

I didn't mean to glorify that attitude, and i was fearing the worst outside the ground.

Though, in hindsight, i think what happened to me and others is sort of amusing (in quite a macabre way), but I certainly don't want to be involved in anything like that again and I wouldn't wish it on anyone else, including Uncle Liam

Cheers

Uncle Liam wrote:

Anyway, at Hillsborough:

a) why were thousands of fans late? Everyone surely knew what time the game kicked off.

From Wikepedia: Kick-off was scheduled for 3.00pm but due to a variety of factors, including traffic delays on the route to Sheffield from Liverpool, many of the Liverpool supporters were later than usual in arriving. Between 2.00pm and 2.45pm there was a considerable build-up of fans in the small area outside the turnstile entrances

Uncle Liam wrote:

b) why did people continue to try and get in to areas that were clearly full? I've seen the footage on the telly, and that ground looks like something you'd see in the 3rd world. I remember a conversation I had in a pub with Nottingham with my mates dad and some of his mates, who were at the game saying that the whole of that side of the ground was clearly overcrowded and that it had filled up quite dramatically immediately before the game.

Once again form Wiki: The official capacity of these pens was around 2000, however the Health and Safety Executive later found that this should have been reduced to around 1600 as the crush barriers did not conform to the Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds 1986. It is estimated that the number of people in these pens shortly after kick off at 3.00pm was over 3000. This overcrowding caused the fatal crush

Wkipedia- incredibly neutral.

Right wanker that Liam

FAO Uncle Liam.... King Of Copy and Pasting

Uefa backtracks on Liverpool fans

Platini does not want a repeat of the confusion from Athens Uefa president Michael Platini has denied that Liverpool fans are the worst-behaved in Europe. Uefa spokesman William Gaillard made the claim after trouble at the Champions League final, but Platini has now backtracked on those remarks.

"No they are not the worst behaved in Europe," said Platini. "It's official, they are not the worst behaved."

Platini was speaking after a meeting with Sports minister Richard Caborn about the problems in Athens.

Interview: Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard Interview: Uefa spokesman William Gaillard

Platini wants to make sure we don't have a repeat of events in Athens

Sports minister Richard Caborn

The Frenchman added: "This is an old story. We know about this, it is just that more English fans follow their clubs than those from other countries.

"It is not as if one set of fans are good or one set bad. This is not the question in the end. We cannot go around saying that."

Uefa says it will use Caborn's suggestions to try to avoid a repeat of the problems at the final between Liverpool and AC Milan.

Caborn met Platini to receive a report on the problems caused by ticketless Reds fans at the Olympic Stadium.

Platini approved of Caborn's idea for a working party to be set up by Uefa to find suitable venues for future finals.

Caborn said: "It was a very useful and constructive meeting."

Platini's report outlined 25 incidents involving Liverpool away from home in Europe since 2003.

Before meeting Platini in Brussels, Caborn had appealed for Uefa to stop blaming Reds fans for the ticket problems which had dogged the final in Athens.

606: DEBATE What is the best way to avoid similar problems in the future?

Caborn said: "Platini wants to make sure we don't have a repeat of events in Athens. We want to learn from the past and make sure we can have safe grounds for supporters.

"I suggested they set up a working party, which was well-received by Platini, and I have offered the expertise of the Football Licensing Authority who are respected on a worldwide basis.

"They'll be looking at major European finals and I hope they can start setting some standards for clubs entering the competitions that they have to meet certain criteria."

Liverpool co-owner Tom Hicks had reacted angrily to Gaillard's condemnation of fans' behaviour.

He said: "The guy from Uefa who said that doesn't know what he's talking about.

"Uefa did not handle this right at all. To give 17,000 tickets to the two teams, particularly knowing Liverpool are going to bring 40,000 fans, is insane.

"It's a classic case of a bureaucrat trying to take the pressure off himself. They didn't handle it right, they didn't have proper ticketing procedures and unfortunately there were counterfeit tickets.

"There were fans who paid their hard-earned money to get their tickets and they get to the stadium and are told there is no more room."

Meanwhile, Steven Gerrard has laid the blame at Uefa's door, despite fierce criticism of Liverpool supporters who got into the stadium in Athens for their 2-1 defeat without tickets.

Maybe a minority of Liverpool fans have let themselves down

Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard

Gerrard, however, claims his friends and family who went to the final all found the organisation lacking - and even the club's hotel facilities laid on by Uefa were not good enough.

"It upsets me because we've travelled everywhere together for the six or seven years I've been in the first team," he said.

"From what I've seen their behaviour has been fantastic. So it surprises me to hear that.

"I had friends and family at the final. Their opinion was that the organisation wasn't good enough.

"I'm sure when it all gets broken down they will conclude that the organisation wasn't good enough and maybe a minority of Liverpool fans have let themselves down.

"But as far as I'm concerned the European Cup final has got to be in a bigger stadium with better organisation.

"Our set-up wasn't good enough either. Our hotel facilities weren't good enough."

Uncle Liam wrote: Wkipedia- incredibly neutral.

Yeah, because Lord Justice Taylor and the Health and Safety Executive are both liars aren't they?

And if you think the Wikipedia entry is wrong, maybe you should edit it so it fits in with your totally arrogant and ignorant view of what happened at Hillsborough. But somehow I don't think you will.

recycle wrote: Uefa backtracks on Liverpool fans

You've just spent the last few days telling us what lying bastards UEFA are. You may have a point.

Uncle Liam wrote: Wkipedia- incredibly neutral.

What source are you using incidentally, The Sun, Red Issue, someone down at Sam Platts?

football and being at the match can do strange things to a normally law-abiding citizen.

At least Uefa got it WRONG, and admitted it.

I wonder where Liam gets his experience of all these disasters from. Coz he sure as hell wasn't there, and I'd bet he knows no one that was there either.

As mentioned previously, John, at least four Nottingham Forest fans who were there. Funny how none of their fans were involved, isnt it?

nutjob.

massive club Forest. massive.

just sack it now.

No more slagging off LFC and its fans gobshite.

you know nothing about football.

King John Honest John wrote: nutjob.

massive club Forest. massive.

just sack it now.

No more slagging off LFC and its fans gobshite.

you know nothing about football.

What a truly fantastic argument!

Uncle Liam wrote: As mentioned previously, John, at least four Nottingham Forest fans who were there. Funny how none of their fans were involved, isnt it?

What would they know of our experiences getting into the smaller section of the ground, we were earmarked despite having a far larger number of fans?

I have no idea what went on at their end.

forest got the Kop.

we got Leppings.

and who took the most fans i wonder

Why were so many ticketless Liverpool fans over in Athens? (3 times the amount that would be able to legally gain access to the stadium)?

Why were Liverpool "fans" stealing tickets from other fans (including kids)and fighting amongst themselves over tickets?

I guess all clubs have their share of tw$ts. And its a shame that this minority tarnishes the reputation of their club.

UEFA made mistakes but my take on it is that Liverpool fans made a rod for their own back.

NO Regret wrote: Why were so many ticketless Liverpool fans over in Athens? (3 times the amount that would be able to legally gain access to the stadium)?

Why were Liverpool "fans" stealing tickets from other fans (including kids)and fighting amongst themselves over tickets?

I guess all clubs have their share of tw$ts. And its a shame that this minority tarnishes the reputation of their club.

UEFA made mistakes but my take on it is that Liverpool fans made a rod for their own back.

Dont say that or Kershaw will beat you up!

NO Regret wrote: Why were so many ticketless Liverpool fans over in Athens? (3 times the amount that would be able to legally gain access to the stadium)?

Why were Liverpool "fans" stealing tickets from other fans (including kids)and fighting amongst themselves over tickets?

I guess all clubs have their share of tw$ts. And its a shame that this minority tarnishes the reputation of their club.

UEFA made mistakes but my take on it is that Liverpool fans made a rod for their own back.

Pretty much the same reason the Mancs were doing most of that at a game with far less significance against Lille. Why no recriminations against them?

King John Honest John wrote: forest got the Kop.

we got Leppings.

and who took the most fans i wonder

Again, someone elses fault.

I wasn't there in 1989, I don't know anyone who was but in 1987 I was at the corresponding game. Coventry City have a much smaller fan base than Leeds United, they got the Kop, we got the Leppings Lane end. While Leeds could have sold the tickets twice over there were empty seats in the Coventry end.

I have to say that the Leppings lane end was packed, too full but I also have to say that from a policing point of view the organisation was excellent. There were plenty of police, all around the ground slowing people up and directing them to the sides. I was not far to the left of the goals and was uncomfortably crushed but at the end of the match everyone got home. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made on a different day but the argument that it was the solely the fault of the police is just crap and as I've said before, with Liverpool fans it's always someone elses fault.

High time Liverpool fans got tht chip off their shoulder and took their share of responsibilty.

Leeds were the worst of the lot in the 80's.

Remember 1990 when Leeds got promoted to the top flight after a weekend of mayhem in Bournemouth.

the only reason there's not much of a mention of the Leeds fans behaviour any more, is coz the teams fuckin crap now, and no one cares about the lower divisions.

James Thomas wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: forest got the Kop.

we got Leppings.

and who took the most fans i wonder

Again, someone elses fault.

I wasn't there in 1989, I don't know anyone who was but in 1987 I was at the corresponding game. Coventry City have a much smaller fan base than Leeds United, they got the Kop, we got the Leppings Lane end. While Leeds could have sold the tickets twice over there were empty seats in the Coventry end.

I have to say that the Leppings lane end was packed, too full but I also have to say that from a policing point of view the organisation was excellent. There were plenty of police, all around the ground slowing people up and directing them to the sides. I was not far to the left of the goals and was uncomfortably crushed but at the end of the match everyone got home. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made on a different day but the argument that it was the solely the fault of the police is just crap and as I've said before, with Liverpool fans it's always someone elses fault.

High time Liverpool fans got tht chip off their shoulder and took their share of responsibilty.

Why is it crap?

The policing was far from excellent, a different inexperienced officer was 'in charge'. Fans weren't directed away from the central pens. No officers slowed people down and none of them knew to close the gate blocking access to the central pens, once they were already full.

To compound this, there was chaos outside, where for over an hour before the game queues built up to a point were it was considered dangerous enough outside that the order was given to open the exit gates.

The fatalaties could easily have been avoided, even at this late stage, as the outer pens weren't anywhere near capacity, as the following pictures illustrate.

You'd do well to click on this and get your facts straight before mouthing off.

James Thomas wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: forest got the Kop.

we got Leppings.

and who took the most fans i wonder

Again, someone elses fault.

I wasn't there in 1989, I don't know anyone who was but in 1987 I was at the corresponding game. Coventry City have a much smaller fan base than Leeds United, they got the Kop, we got the Leppings Lane end. While Leeds could have sold the tickets twice over there were empty seats in the Coventry end.

I have to say that the Leppings lane end was packed, too full but I also have to say that from a policing point of view the organisation was excellent. There were plenty of police, all around the ground slowing people up and directing them to the sides. I was not far to the left of the goals and was uncomfortably crushed but at the end of the match everyone got home. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made on a different day but the argument that it was the solely the fault of the police is just crap and as I've said before, with Liverpool fans it's always someone elses fault.

High time Liverpool fans got tht chip off their shoulder and took their share of responsibilty.

I agree JT. For the record, when Forest played there in 1989, their end was apparently a total sell out. No trouble at their side.

don't respond to the sad cunt Hank.

he knows nothing. we know that.

King John Honest John wrote: don't respond to the sad cunt Hank.

he knows nothing. we know that.

Aye, arguemnts full of holes backed up with nothing of substance.

Is Liam the fat kid who goes to all the shite gigs?

Hank Wiseass© wrote:

King John Honest John wrote: don't respond to the sad cunt Hank.

he knows nothing. we know that.

Aye, arguemnts full of holes backed up with nothing of substance.

Is Liam the fat kid who goes to all the shite gigs?

Liam.... just drop it for fuck sake.

At the end of day 96 football fans never can home from a match. It could have been any team, anyones fans, and anyones father, brother, sister, cousin.

What if it had been any one of your family on that dreadful afternoon??????

Please, lets jst drop this subject now.

King John Honest John wrote:

Leeds were the worst of the lot in the 80's.

Don't tell me, whatever violence Liverpool supporters were involved in it wasn't their fault because there was someone else who was worse.

Pretty strange definition of 'worst' you have. If you must descend to the gutter and set up some comparison of the 80's I don't really see a number of very well publicised riots and two deaths (both Leeds supporters, one murdered by rival supporters and one crushed by a collapsing wall) stands up against 39 dead Juve supporters in one go.

King John Honest John wrote: Remember 1990 when Leeds got promoted to the top flight after a weekend of mayhem in Bournemouth.

Yes I remember it, and it wasn't the worst incident they took part in. A fixture like that was crackers especially after the last match of the season five years before, which did result in the worst incident they took part in. But Leeds fans were responsible for what happened. Still pales into isignificance though.

King John Honest John wrote:

the only reason there's not much of a mention of the Leeds fans behaviour any more, is coz the teams fuckin crap now, and no one cares about the lower divisions.

Yes, they're crap but we were in the lower divisions in the eighties then, so you were watching.

John, your arguments are shite, but now you mention football when was the last time Liverpool won the league?

recycle wrote: Liam.... just drop it for fuck sake.

At the end of day 96 football fans never can home from a match. It could have been any team, anyones fans, and anyones father, brother, sister, cousin.

What if it had been any one of your family on that dreadful afternoon??????

Please, lets jst drop this subject now.

Amen to that.

I find it incredible that anyone can take such glee from the events of Hillsbrough on these boards-and not for the first time in Uncle Liam's case.

What was Al's previous observation? Something like,-the'Uncle' part of Liam's online persona is bordering on Scumbag-or words to that effect.

Well now he is oozing scuzz. He's gone right down in my estimation,with all his Hillsbrough gloating.

And on another serious note...I'll be very interested in the lower leagues soon enough,the way the transfer merry-go-round is knacking the the Boro:(

If anyone sees a bloke by the name of Viduka in a Barcode shirt,put a bullet in the cunt for us would yer?

gloating? get of your high horse will you? I'll quote myself

I'm not suggesting that the people who died were hooligans. No, they were the decent ones who had tickets and got to the match in good time. Not the pissed up ticketless ones who barged in at kick off.

I'd hardly call that gloating. I'm being critical of a certain element and mentality that exists within a certain clubs fans. Spot the Difference?

Only if you mean it Liam,only if you mean it.

You are entitled to your opinion on Liverpool or whatever.. But I was refering more to an earlier post and thread by you, regarding the journalist Kelvin Mckenzie and your overall smugness in reference to the tragedy. You came across as a total loin Beyond that I am not arsed.

Well bugger me , that's jolted my memory.I went to the Coventry v Leeds semi final in 1987 , 2 years before Hillsborough .Had forgotten that.We were packed in like sardines in the end , um , opposite the Leeds end,what's it called? Hang on , i'm not a Cov fan.. what was i doing there Oh that's it- a mate who is a cov fan had a spare ticket so i gave in and went along.Great day as i recall , great game.

Fucking hell, i've only been gone a few weks and wars broke out!

I hope i dont upset anyone with this but, i think Liverpool fans are their own worst enemy when it comes to Hillsbourgh. Certain elements still go on about it now, 18 years later because they were the innocent party that day in April '89. Yet the Juventus incident is played down when its the other way round.

I have to say Liam, reading this thread you certainly seem to have taken things too far. I personally know some Utd lads who run in 'that' crowd and they would probably kick fuck out of you for that, and they hate the scousers but some things aren't disrespected.

Its a well known fact that the people killed in Sheff that day were NOT hooligans, but normal scarf wearing fans (i actually went to school with one-James Delaney, and knew another, Jimmy Hennesey-neither were joggers).

Liverpool fans are not the worst, no better no worse than United, West Ham, etc.