Depeche Mode

violator is still my favorite mode album and ultra is second. but i love violators b-sides. dangerous, sea of sin, and happiest girl, all would have done great as singles. i love depeche mode, new order, and the cure. i got into new order and depeche mode roughly about the same time because they were both dance synth-pop i guess. there's a corelation :)

got to admit that all my favorite albums are from 1989

disintegration violator technique automatic (jesus and mary chain) the innocents (erasure) pretty hate machine (was that 1989?)

funny how all those bands all released classic albums on the same year.

kamar

Fookin' shite.

New Order are a lads' band, and that is the way it is. If you don't like it, or want to view them as something they ain't (and you already know what I think about this US obsession with grouping things into "genres" ), then you are definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Dance synth-pop my arse. WTF is "synth-pop" ?

Dance synth-pop my arse. WTF is "synth-pop"

electronic dance music as in bizzare love triangle, blue monday, confusion, perfect kiss... etc.

did new order not use synths most of the 80's? and were they not a pop band? synth-pop is my way of refering to bands that were classified as "new wave" since i hate that term being applied to bands that had sucessful carears past the 80's.

Do you know what's cruel? Hearing "Policy of Truth" come on the radio, only to find out seconds later that it's the intro to Bon Jovi's "It's My Life."

And they said "Run" is based on "Leaving on a Jet Plane." There's a lawsuit here somewhere.

Originally posted by kamar khan Dance synth-pop my arse. WTF is "synth-pop" electronic dance music as in bizzare love triangle, blue monday, confusion, perfect kiss... etc.did new order not use synths most of the 80's? and were they not a pop band? synth-pop is my way of refering to bands that were classified as "new wave" since i hate that term being applied to bands that had sucessful carears past the 80's.

Why do you have to classify them at all ? You don't get it, do you ?

Maybe it's too much of a reach, but on a lot of the early DM singles it seems like Dave Gahan's going for a sort of Ian-like vocal style. I'm thinking of "Dreaming of Me" and stuff like that...

At any rate, I've never gotten into Depeche Mode all that much. If I did, I'd wear bondage leather outfits and have my balls pierced :D

Originally posted by kamar khan violator is still my favorite mode album and ultra is second. but i love violators b-sides. dangerous, sea of sin, and happiest girl, all would have done great as singles. i love depeche mode, new order, and the cure. i got into new order and depeche mode roughly about the same time because they were both dance synth-pop i guess. there's a corelation :)got to admit that all my favorite albums are from 1989disintegrationviolatortechniqueautomatic (jesus and mary chain)the innocents (erasure)pretty hate machine (was that 1989?)funny how all those bands all released classic albums on the same year.kamar

Point of order:

Violator was 1990 and The Innocents was 1988 (tho, I can see that it would be a fave of yours in 1989 as it was still fresh). However, I agree that 89 was a great year for music...and graduatin' high school.

thanks :) i relaized after i wrote erasure and submitted that it was 1988. but violator in 90 threw me off. i saw them in 90 on the world violation tour but could have sworn i saw something on either violator or one of the sinlges that read 1989. im sure im wrong. 1990 does make more sense.

Originally posted by kamar khan got to admit that all my favorite albums are from 1989disintegrationviolatortechniqueautomatic (jesus and mary chain)the innocents (erasure)pretty hate machine (was that 1989?)funny how all those bands all released classic albums on the same year.kamar

pretty much describes the same CDs that were hogging my discman that year too (except for Erasure)

Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle Fookin' shite.New Order are a lads' band, and that is the way it is. If you don't like it, or want to view them as something they ain't (and you already know what I think about this US obsession with grouping things into "genres" ), then you are definitely barking up the wrong tree.Dance synth-pop my arse. WTF is "synth-pop" ?

Whoa! Don't step in the double standard!

Are you automatically right about NO being a "lads' band" because you're from England? Or because you've been a fan of the band since the beginning? Or because you've been to however many of their shows?

Just because your opinion of the group differs from that of people in other areas of the world, doesn't mean you're automatically correct. While you may be from England and the band may also be from England, your interpretation of the band's main audience (lads) on their home turf (England) is not correct for all places.

I got into the band several years ago in a part of the world where the band is largely forgotten. Just because their music means something different to me than it does to you, does that make me wrong? Music is many things to many people, and your supposed privileged position of authority on the group only extends to that little island you live on. To each his own, and my opinion of the group and what sort of audience it has in my own part of the world is just as valid as yours.

Originally posted by kamar khan thanks :) i relaized after i wrote erasure and submitted that it was 1988. but violator in 90 threw me off. i saw them in 90 on the world violation tour but could have sworn i saw something on either violator or one of the sinlges that read 1989. im sure im wrong. 1990 does make more sense.

Personal Jesus was released in Sept of 89, but Violator wasn't released until March 1990.

Originally posted by His Holiness, The Pope > Originally posted by Reg Bumswizle> Fookin' shite.> > New Order are a lads' band, and that is the way it is. If you don't like it, or want to view them as something they ain't (and you already know what I think about this US obsession with grouping things into "genres" ), then you are definitely barking up the wrong tree.> > Dance synth-pop my arse. WTF is "synth-pop" ?

Whoa! Don't step in the double standard!

Are you automatically right about NO being a "lads' band" because you're from England? Or because you've been a fan of the band since the beginning? Or because you've been to however many of their shows?

Just because your opinion of the group differs from that of people in other areas of the world, doesn't mean you're automatically correct. While you may be from England and the band may also be from England, your interpretation of the band's main audience (lads) on their home turf (England) is not correct for all places.

I got into the band several years ago in a part of the world where the band is largely forgotten. Just because their music means something different to me than it does to you, does that make me wrong? Music is many things to many people, and your supposed privileged position of authority on the group only extends to that little island you live on. To each his own, and my opinion of the group and what sort of audience it has in my own part of the world is just as valid as yours.

Is this what they call "Papal Bull" ? ;)

Methinks you misinterpreted me a bit. Read Al's post as well, and maybe you'll get what I mean. As for the personal attack, well I only take notice of teenagers with guns or big tits.

LOL I love it when NO gets defended as being a "Lad's band." "NO aint no skirt wearing sissy band."

Of course this could be very well true, judging by all the crowd noise inbetween songs on any NO gig bootleg.

New Order has traditionally been lumped together with the likes of the PSBs, The Cure and DM down this way as well.

The way I see it, it's due to the thirst for a taste of English 'dance pop' lacking in domestic music scenes abroad. And laziness of local music scribes. Although there are definite differences between NO and The Cure and DM, there are also similarities to their sound. Especially to ears less refined to the nuance of the English music scene.

NO could never be a "lads' band" outside of the UK. The Australian market is closer to the US one in this respect. The perception would be that the band needs to be less "soft": have more attitude, guitars mixed up higher, a less synthetic sound, etc. Hence the less testosterone-fuelled nature of the NO live shows abroad.

NO's international fans would be an interesting melange of Anglophiles, 'dance pop' (for want of a better genre) fans, indie kids, 80's victims, soccer fans and a little of that "semi-intellectual" element that Snoopy was referring to. Although I'd consider it more of an arty crowd, captured by the mystery and perceived esoterism of the band. There was a definite mystique surrounding the band in earlier, especially pre-Internet times, perpetuated by our detachment from the reality. The anonymity of the group, its dark, gothic past, the fusing of dance beats with indie guitars and sensibilities, all bound in sumptuous Saville artwork was an enticing prospect for the cool kids of the day.

In light of all this, I've always wondered about NO's perception of dM. Anyone remember any quotes? We know that they've been disparaging of The Cure in the past, but on the other hand they've been happy to collaborate with the PSBs. The only real link I can recall was that fateful opener Electronic played for DM at the Dodgers' Stadium early on in their career.

Controversial thought: despite what Big Al said, doesn't all of this imply that NO's international fans might be more intellectual pro rata than their English fans? Now I'm really not pointing the finger at anyone in particular here.. but that's my theory ;)

:\pimp3:

I spent some time this WE compiling an enhanced version of Violator, i.e. the album + all the b-sides (which I hadn't listen to for several years): Dangerous, Sibeling, Memphisto, Kaleid, Sea of Sin and Happiest Girl. It's great to re-discover all these songs . I think the CD won't leave my car for a while...

I have to agree with those who think that DM's time is behind them since SOFAD. The last two albums really lack something (maybe Alan Wilder's touch?).

Correct Tim they are Shite

Nuf said

i liked the mode since i was a snotty nosed kid,really got into them when they released enjoy the silence(quite new order-esque)really loved policy of truth,but songs of faith is my fave album,bizarre,& the devotional tour was fantastic! best show i"ve ever seen!

i'll say this much: NO is a good band. i listen to them and it charges me. i listen to them when i drink. i listen to them whenever the fuck i feel like it. But, no matter how good i think they are, that doesn't change the fact that other americans will think of me as a sissy for liking them. The average american male is brainwashed by marketing campaigns to think that he should listen to country, or metal, other various forms of "Macho" music. For some reason any pop band that used a synth in the 80s gets imediatley struck from that list.

NO get bundled in with the Mode and the Cure, the petshoppers, the mozzah, the smiths, and OMD as the "alternative" bands in the 80s. they were marketed as an alternative to the Madona/Whitney Houston/Lionel Ritchie/Eddy Money/Billy Joel/Poison/Winger/Motley Crue shit that covered pop radio in the states. do i agree that NO and the cure go hand in hand? nope. but that doesn't change the fact that they are, to americans, similar in nature. englanders know all the upclose and personal details, americans just follow the ad campaigns. do either mater? to me, no, but to some...

Originally posted by Al Jarvis It's not a question of intelligence though, is it? It's simply that, in the main, the British contingent here take a more pragmatic approach to New Order and their music. Obviously that's just a generalism cos yourself or, say, Jeff the Chef, proffer similar opinions from abroad, but most of the hyperbole and rhetoric does appear to come from foreign shores. Not sure why that is, whether it's because we have increased exposure to the band, or whatever, but the British viewpoints do appear to be more grounded in the main.

Pragmatic, certainly.

Without digging into the semantics, I was referring to 'intellectualism' rather than 'intelligence'. If I had to profile the typical New Order fan down here, I'd say they'd be tertiary-educated and of fairly liberal disposition. New Order was never really part of mainstream music in Aus, unlike the UK in the aftermath of WIM. If you wanted to pursue them as an interest here, it often necessitated reading international journals, seeking alternative music sources, thinking outside the circle, etc. Utilising skills that often implied an intellectual bent.

I think Bernard once stated a perception that New Order fans were either "spotty students or soccer hooligans". I guess I'm drawing a long bow, but wouldn't that imply that the sizeable "soccer hooligan" element would lower the mean intellectual quotient of the English fanbase? Or am I unaware of the true profile of the soccer hooligan?

"Course I'm a farking intelletchool... Roight! Who wants a smart kickin'?"

I'm not suggesting that the average soccer hooligan has low intelligence -- there's plenty of street smarts if nothing else -- just that he's probably less readily classified as 'intellectual'.

Hmmmm...

We really lost the DM theme somewhere back there, didn't we?

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by depthcharge> > > > Originally posted by Al Jarvis> "Course I'm a farking intelletchool... Roight! Who wants a smart kickin'?"

I don't think the hooligan reference had any bearing on intelligence, it was more a question of attitude.

There's a lot of lads who follow this band, and a fair few geeks too, but at the end of the day, I think it's the lads who always show the more intelligence on this site because they speak the more common sense. intelligence, attitude and common sense... alot of that going on in the 'Ian Curtis' topic on the Digital Republic forum http://www.neworderonline.com/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=11978 What DM theme???

Originally posted by SuperNova > Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by depthcharge> > > > Originally posted by Al Jarvis> "Course I'm a farking intelletchool... Roight! Who wants a smart kickin'?"

I don't think the hooligan reference had any bearing on intelligence, it was more a question of attitude.

There's a lot of lads who follow this band, and a fair few geeks too, but at the end of the day, I think it's the lads who always show the more intelligence on this site because they speak the more common sense. intelligence, attitude and common sense... alot of that going on in the 'Ian Curtis' topic on the Digital Republic forum http://www.neworderonline.com/MessageList.aspx?ThreadID=11978 What DM theme???

You want some ? I'm entitled to stand my ground when told how to suck eggs by a kid who wasn't born when Joy Division ended, yet thinks he is the dogs bollocks when it comes to playing their songs.

DM missed a lot when the doll Vince Clarke left the band

Originally posted by Al Jarvis I don't think the hooligan reference had any bearing on intelligence, it was more a question of attitude. There's a lot of lads who follow this band, and a fair few geeks too, but at the end of the day, I think it's the lads who always show the more intelligence on this site because they speak the more common sense.

I can't respond to this because I'm not sure who you'd classify here as 'lad' and who as 'geek' and by what measure?

I guess if you're re-asserting the point that there's generally too much canonising and hyperbole on this site, then you're quite right. It's symptomatic of fan sites in general really?

:\pimp3:

Al, given the themes of your novel I'd be very interested to hear exactly how you define the English 'lad' and ergo, who here fits the bill. Don't suppose there's any chance of revealing your interpretation of our 'lads' and 'geeks' factions?

;)

As for the Mode, well, that almost encapsulates the difference between NO fans UK and abroad. I'd expect that most international NO fans also cross over into the DM camp.

:\pimp3:

I used to like DM quite a bit, but about 2 years ago I went to a greek fan club DM party (at one of the best clubs i've ever been btw)...

How can a non fan listen to them for 4 hours in a row, whithout getting sick of them? And how would you describe all those fans who were lighting their lighters, screaming and applauding at a screen (for god's sake!), where one of their concerts was showing, huh?