One-fifth of Australians 'in poverty'

If youre thinking of emigrating dont forget to bring a bucket and squeegy for the weekend job, windscreens pay $1 a time :evil:

Where was this at?

Wouldn't surprise me at all... buying a house here is guaranteed poverty :(

Another failure of extreme capitalism (the best example being of course the USA, with their 40/50 millions of poor people... if I was them I'd gather in Washington and burn the whole fookin city down). Economy itself doesn't bring any good to the people. It's the Welfare which must rule it. My factory can go very well, but if I'm paid 500 dollars I'm still poor.

Erm...I want to move to Australia at some point. Anyone have a couch I can crash on for a few years?

Originally posted by almanso 1/5? that´s a lot for a country like Australia! i hope you never get to the terrifying 54.7% that Argentina has these days. more than a half below the line of poverty. and 26.3 is below the line of indigence! there MUST be another way! :(

hey almanso - what do you make of mr luna. ive been hearing wildly varying accounts of what he is up to by people on the left here in ireland.

Originally posted by Murv If youre thinking of emigrating dont forget to bring a bucket and squeegy for the weekend job, windscreens pay $1 a time :evil:

No jobs then?

Originally posted by almanso i hope you never get to the terrifying 54.7% that Argentina has these days. more than a half below the line of poverty. and 26.3 is below the line of indigence! there MUST be another way! :(

*At cost of repeating myself, there is, there already has been. And it doesn't need bloody revolutions or totalitarian states. It's simply called Welfare state. Between the 60s and the 80s the most of the European countries have had serious Welfare state. The economy was OK, the workers had many rights and had more money to spend, and that made the economy go even better. Then, since the 90s, many of those rights have been cancelled, one by one. A stupid but perfect example: there was a law in Italy putting a limit to apartment rents. That way, the owner of the house got paid the right and the worker didn't have to spend too much for rent and still had money for thier family. There was no need of making a revolution, chopping the owner's head and giving the house to the state to rent it to the worker, that limit was enough. That law has been cancelled. The owners are asking crazy rents. I know people paying the 75% of their wage in fookin rent. What do you think is left to them after they pay the greedy bastard? And man, those bastards can virtually live only with those rents if they have a couple of apartments, no need to work for those cunts! The solution is simple: bring that limit back. Or heads will have to roll. :D

Originally posted by Zoesch Where was this at?Wouldn't surprise me at all... buying a house here is guaranteed poverty :(

Published: Thursday, 11 March, 2004, 10:34 GMT One-fifth of Australians 'in poverty' Up to four million Australians - one-fifth of the population - are living in poverty, with some families not able to afford breakfast for their children, a parliamentary report has found.

The report came from a committee in the upper house of parliament and has been disavowed by Prime Minister John Howard.

This was the first report in 30 years to study poverty in Australia and it offered a bleak picture.

It said more than 20% of Australians could not afford medicines for their children, and had no money to buy textbooks to send them to school.

Well the current Government is of the conservative persuasion (they call themselves Liberal party). The current unemployment rate is a bit less than 6%, but many of the new jobs of the last few years have been of the casual and low paying variety. Whilst we still have a Social Security net, access to it has been tightened a lot. Not sure what the answer is. Do you want economic growth at the expense of many in society, or do you want the Govenment to look after the people more but with possibly higher taxation and less econmic growth therfore fewer jobs?

Anyway we should have elections by October this year the latest. Perhaps there'll be a change in govenment. The alternative is a center left party (Labor Party).

hmmm 1 in 5 ozzies is poor?? by what is poor measured? compared to what? a starving aids ridden african who hasnt eaten in 8 days? kiss my arse. poor in any western country means u cant afford 2 cars.

I gues it all depends on exactly where you go and what par of town too.

I've spent a great deal of time down in Oz, mainly in Darwin (Don't laugh...), Townsville and Caines and I guess I just seemed to miss the whole poverty thing.

Darwin alone has made some HUGE improvements over the years. I remember when it was all dirt roads and shit and now it's a funking resort town!!!!

I suppose I was too busy having a good time drinking, clubing, shopping for records and letting Aussie girls take advantage of me after I got all drunk....

Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch Do you want economic growth at the expense of many in society, or do you want the Govenment to look after the people more but with possibly higher taxation and less econmic growth therfore fewer jobs?

*This is a bit simplistic. First it's a question of how the taxation which already exists is spent. And then taxations on personal profits doesn't absolutely mean less economic growth nor fewer jobs. And yes the problem is actually those casual and low jobs. Living on those jobs is hell, you need money every month, but you don't work every month. Go figure. The only thing worse than being unemployed is working and not being able to afford a decent life. Even if social security slowed economy (and, in the right way, it doesn't) better a slow economy for all than a fast economy for few. The decades between the 60s and the 80s proved it's possible, the Welfare worked and there was no need to return to savage capitalism, which in turn doesn't work at all.

Originally posted by mike powell poor in any western country means u cant afford 2 cars.

*Of course you know nothing of the working class. Anyway poor people in western countries are less visible because they're more ashamed and they sort of hide their problems. But when you get to know them you discover the truth. A family of a casual worker, with an ill old parent, a child at school and a rent to pay is fucked, believe me. And of course our government just made a law which makes much easier casual jobs. We're getting back to slavery. The worst kind of contract is the "call contract": you sign for one month, but you work when you're called and get paid for the days you work, day after day. Like a fookin whore! Only workers don't get paid as much per hour.

Originally posted by Mick Aneworderfan Originally posted by Ronald KirschDo you want economic growth at the expense of many in society, or do you want the Govenment to look after the people more but with possibly higher taxation and less econmic growth therfore fewer jobs?*This is a bit simplistic. First it's a question of how the taxation which already exists is spent. And then taxations on personal profits doesn't absolutely mean less economic growth nor fewer jobs.And yes the problem is actually those casual and low jobs. Living on those jobs is hell, you need money every month, but you don't work every month. Go figure.The only thing worse than being unemployed is working and not being able to afford a decent life. Even if social security slowed economy (and, in the right way, it doesn't) better a slow economy for all than a fast economy for few.The decades between the 60s and the 80s proved it's possible, the Welfare worked and there was no need to return to savage capitalism, which in turn doesn't work at all.

I'm far from an advocate of severe capitalism. I guess I did draw the scenario a bit simplistic, but generally that's more or less the choice we have here in Oz. Centre Left or Conservative.

In the 80's and 90's when we did have a Labor government we did sort of go through a boom, with acouple of recessions in between. In that whole time we had a higher offial unemplyment rate than we have now. Hence, one would think more poverty. At the end of their last term we had government budget deficits, an unemplyment rate of about 9% and a quite high rate of inflation. All of these indicators have reversed with the current government. Neverthelss there are a larger proportion of working poor these days.

Also the big killer at the moment in Oz is the price of housing. In the last 5 or so years its gone through the roof.

Me I don't consider myself poor, however I cannot afford to buy a house , at least something I'd want to live in. If I had a family we could not survive on my income.

Very well put Alejo, I spent a week in Port-au-prince some years ago and there is no way that a generalisation such as not owning two cars holds up. Nor does it in places as varied as Havana ; Cuba, Mugla; Turkiye and Guayabitos; Mexico. But what is in many respects true is that once strong economies in the west are crumbling and the good times many people have worked hard for may have slipped away, in that respect some people may feel poorer. So whilst I can show empathy or be a little sympathetic when I'm working or holidaying in another country , I know it wont last, cos sooner or later I can go home and switch a computer on or watch a band, or spend money on a dvd. However on a totaly selfish note I can visit the US cheaply and even Argentina may be within my price range, do I feel I am takin advantage ? Of course. Is it a cheap holiday in other peoples misery ? I hope not. As for Australia, the only problem I have ever had with the place is most of her people seem to be workin in the bars of London and that's hardly a tragedy, however with one in five poor, it's hardly about to become a reciprocal agreement for any of our nations youngsters to take advantage of, that said I'm not sure the aussies could cope with an influx of surly Mancunian barmaids

Couldn`t give a XXXX :D

Originally posted by steve52 Couldn`t give a XXXX :D

About the 1 in 5 Australians, or any of the other issues raised here ?

Hate to rain on the parade here people but I'd read this kind of news with a high degree of scepticism. Murv is NOOL's version of an AM radio shock jock sometimes...

Every few weeks, any given welfare body is likely to submit his kind of report to the parliament and the media but you've got to consider their own agendas (read: more funding). I've no doubt it happens in much of the western world.

"In poverty" - bah! Poverty in Australia is NOTHING like poverty in Africa or Asia or even South America. I'd expect that it's probably a lot more depressing being poor in some dreary housing estate in Northern England. At least down here there's no shortage of optimism, fine weather, space, fresh and cheap food, and a clean environment. You're certainly not likely to get your head kicked in after some soccer game by another poor, socially disadvantaged bastard from across town.

Moreover, how does one fifth of your country live in poverty when you've got the second highest rate of obesity in the western world?

The economy here is leading the world and unemployment rates are way down. Sure there are a lot of problems - like every other country - but this kind of report is all smoke, very few flames.

:\pimp3:

Originally posted by Ronald Kirsch In the 80's and 90's when we did have a Labor government we did sort of go through a boom, with acouple of recessions in between. In that whole time we had a higher offial unemplyment rate than we have now. Hence, one would think more poverty. At the end of their last term we had government budget deficits, an unemplyment rate of about 9% and a quite high rate of inflation. All of these indicators have reversed with the current government. Neverthelss there are a larger proportion of working poor these days.

*Of course I don't think that a centre-left government automatically can do good things for the country. If they have a better platform you can hope they try to make it real, but this doesn't mean they'll try or they'll succeed. When England had that serious crisis in the late 70s, during which punk emerged, the Labour was at the government. If a left government makes wrong decisions, there'll be problems anyway. It's just that IF they stick to what they stand for, you can hope they'll make more decisions in favour of the people, while with right wing you know they're there just to defend privileges of the higher classes. About taxation, I'd like to add that quite some of the laws in favour of the people don't involve new taxation at all. Like that limit to rent, it doesn't mean taxes at all, it just means rent can't be too fookin high. If you don't believe in western poverty, just meet a person with a wage of 800 dollars paying 600 dollars for rent. Try yourself living with 200 dollars for month with all the rest to pay yet. Also people are poor simply because to have a decent life we can't have children. They aren't starving, but only because they haven't more than one child. Two children at school, and you're ruined. There are serious problems with old people too. They get ridiculous pension wages. My grandmother gets less than 500 dollars a month, of course if she hadn't us supporting her she'd be sleeping at the railway station. In my city's province only (and it's one of the richest in Italy) 100,000 old persons (total residents 350,000) don't have enough to live and must receive food or money to pay the bills from charity organizations.

Originally posted by Detweiler > Originally posted by steve52> Couldn`t give a XXXX :D

About the 1 in 5 Australians, or any of the other issues raised here ?

I was just being light hearted,its too gloomy this thread,in the UK an aussie lager is marketed with the tag line "Australians couldnt give a XXXX about anything else" no offence intended.

*Of course you know nothing of the working class. 1 you know nothing about me so how can u make such a generalised claim. 2.i am working class 3.i work fucking hard for my money (up to 14 hrs a day at times to make ends meet). ive spent a lot of time in oz ,over 10 yrs and to sugest that 1 in 5 of them lives in some kind of squaler is ridiculous. my comparisons to a aids ridden african was to draw your attention to the true meaning of poverty,as almanso says there are a great deal of his countrymen and many others in the south americas suffering the same fate but ill put him straight on one thing. he claims or thinks that these countries are western,which from his point of view are,but to a great many in europe and nth america,canada oz ect these countries are considered to be 3rd world and that is a mass generalisation i know and not one i condone. at least in oz people no matter how poor have acsess to some sort of health care ect, not so in virtually all 3rd world countries. you only have to jump on a plane and go to these places and see for yourself the MASSIVE difference between western nations living/lifestyle standards ect,drive back n forth over the south african border for a bit and you will see what i mean.

Excellent, Almanso. Nothing to add. Mike, I'm working class too, I work on shifts (weekends included) as check and box in a Crystal Factory (really :) ... glasses, perfume bottles). That's why I know the troubles so many people are having, though my job is stable and relatively well paid. But you just have to look around. In America (what about the ghettoes?), in England, in Europe, there's plenty of poor people. Of course we agree it's a different kind of poverty. Not so many homeless, and no one starving. But it's still an unbearable poverty when you know it. When you find yourself full of debts, not because you went gambling, but because you have to pay the electricity bill, that's poverty for us.

Originally posted by depthcharge Hate to rain on the parade here people but I'd read this kind of news with a high degree of scepticism. Murv is NOOL's version of an AM radio shock jock sometimes... Every few weeks, any given welfare body is likely to submit his kind of report to the parliament and the media but you've got to consider their own agendas (read: more funding). I've no doubt it happens in much of the western world."In poverty" - bah! Poverty in Australia is NOTHING like poverty in Africa or Asia or even South America. I'd expect that it's probably a lot more depressing being poor in some dreary housing estate in Northern England. At least down here there's no shortage of optimism, fine weather, space, fresh and cheap food, and a clean environment. You're certainly not likely to get your head kicked in after some soccer game by another poor, socially disadvantaged bastard from across town. Moreover, how does one fifth of your country live in poverty when you've got the second highest rate of obesity in the western world?The economy here is leading the world and unemployment rates are way down. Sure there are a lot of problems - like every other country - but this kind of report is all smoke, very few flames.:\pimp3:

Shock Jock indeed. DC have you ever been to the TAB/pub out at Ascot? some seriously poor individuals... a pub in a betting shop Australia has a real problem with gambling, poker machines in every nook and crannie. Beats me how they can afford to gamble when the wages are so crap.

Wages may be crap but the cost of living's so cheap so it all balances out. Give my regards to Lefty at the bar and steer clear of the peanuts.

:\pimp3: