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Fahrenheit 9/11

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this war is arrogant racism, Iraqis are non-Christian non-white... so they don't count as real people... and most Americans don't care all that much as long as the consumer economy stays status quo... and the US can't remove a military presence, especially now, become if crude oil doubles or triples in price, the US economy will be in chaos, the rich will be fcuk'd... and just about everyones profit margin is based on cheap petroleum... all food (pesticides, fertilizers, transportation, packaging), clothes, packaging and all plastic products in everything...

...but oil will become much more expensive, the gov't will be in massive debt from war, the economy will collapse like the Soviet Union in 15 to 20 years. the US will invade Canada, to create a "gated community" for the remaining rich. Canadians will invade Greenland ...just remember, you have been warned :nuts:

so it don't matter who wins the election.

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Originally posted by pumped full of drugs this war is arrogant racsism, Iraqis are non-Christian non-white... so they don't count as real people... and most Americans don't care all that much as long as the consumer economy stays status quo... and the US can't remove a military presence, especially now, become if crude oil doubles or triples in price, the US economy will be in chaos, the rich will be fcuk'd... and just about everyones profit margin is based on cheap petroleum... all food (pesticides, fertilizers, transportation, packaging), clothes, packaging and all plastic products in everything... ...but oil will become much more expensive, the gov't will be in massive debt from war, the economy will collapse like the Soviet Union in 15 to 20 years. the US will invade Canada, to create a "gated community" for the remaining rich. Canadians will invade Greenland ...just remember, you have been warned :nuts:so it don't matter who wins the election.

Damn you are on some good acid.

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uhm...he's on something...the Arabs can't afford to let the US economy collapse...that's why the Saudi's are already talking about getting OPEC to raise the amounts of oil available...but I'm not going to get into a political discussion at this time of night...I'm going to have another beer!!!:thumb:

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Originally posted by #41 uhm...he's on something...the Arabs can't afford to let the US economy collapse...that's why the Saudi's are already talking about getting OPEC to raise the amounts of oil available...but I'm not going to get into a political discussion at this time of night...I'm going to have another beer!!!:thumb:

They better do it, gaz price has never been so high over here... 1$ per litre, it used to be in the 60-70 cents!!

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Frankly I hope the gas prices stay high. Maybe this will motivate more R&D for non fossil fuel systems.

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Originally posted by #41 uhm...he's on something...the Arabs can't afford to let the US economy collapse...that's why the Saudi's are already talking about getting OPEC to raise the amounts of oil available...but I'm not going to get into a political discussion at this time of night...I'm going to have another beer!!!:thumb:

US economy collapse? We may be having a little bit of a hard time now, but we are hardly anywhere close to a collapse. The Saudis are in our pockets because of Papa Bush; so if we want something, usually the Saudis help us.

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the "Peak Oil Theory" and the end of the petroleum age in the next 50 years.... very scary even if only some if it comes true... sounds like a conspiracy theory but it is hard to really completely disprove it, other than just pretending it will not happen.

the theory which has been around for 30 years is that oil demand keeps growing yearly but cheap supply cannot keep growing to meet the demand. the demand outgrowing supply is suppossed to happen this decade or next. developing countries needs for petroleum are growing pretty much everywhere. economic demand will drive the price of oil higher and higher. the US wants a military presence in the middle east to help ease and avoid any major spikes in oil production which would be catastrophic to the economy. the world is heavily dependant on petroleum for consumer goods and agriculture, both in production and transportation, not just in fueling autos. the US economy is the most dependant, with potential for massive changes in our consumer society. reportedly billions could starve or die from disease in developing countries, and the world population will have a 90% reduction by the end of the century.... really wild stuff, hope that its all exaggerated, but things might be dramatic change in our lifetime, and in the US having such an aging population and building such debt, it may not be pretty. or maybe everything will turn out in the end, but the end of the fast food and Walmart culture may be ending (which might be good thing)

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We may be oil dependent now, but faced with a serious crisis we will step our R&D for alternate fuel sources to power cars, etc. The one fossil fuel that does scare me is coal, and I worry about the day when it runs out because our power system depends on it so much, but faced with that crisis our government would use deficit spending to build nuclear plants or more hydroelectric systems. In the end I don't think this country has anything serious to worry about as long as research on hydrogen fuel cells and other ethanol systems continue to be researched.

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I look forward to the day when we use urine as a fuel source...I have plenty saved away already :D

:nonono: :rolleyes:

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He won the palm d'or. As anyone who has read my other posts (not many!) around here may have figured, im on the left myself, but I still dont think moores film could even feature in the same division as almodovar.

this must be a political decision.

the anti bush industry continues. its a joke at this stage. when will people concentrate on the why rather than the who ???

i just dont dig moores style.

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Clockwork, you commie arse! :p :wink:

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Originally posted by Tristan Jayol Clockwork, you commie arse! :p:wink:

ha ha - what kind of commie sides with michael mc dermott on the immense scale of the other world famous american michael?

did anyone read the observer about moore yesterday? it was like A MICHAEL MOORE PEICE. like "moore on moore, selectively".

ah jaysus!

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My favorite paragraph from the Observer article: Last week on the baking Côte d'Azur, there was no one hotter than the big fellow from Michigan. Among the stylish hordes of the Croisette, there was no greater attraction than this ursine fig ure in his ill-fitting suit. Everyone wanted a piece of him, and there is a lot of him to go around, but after months of requests, I had the only one-on-one interview. Michael and Me, we had a real meeting arranged.

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yeha, wasnt it like michael moore writing an anti michael moore piece? i thought i was half baked when i read it, really creepy. like someone writing about bernard sumner in a sort of childlike nonsense prose! :laugh:

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It was just like i was reading Michael Moore; I stopped at a third way through the column.

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Originally posted by Taboo # 7 Moore's more of an entertainer than a "serious film-maker", anyone who remembers TV Nation knows that. But he does have genuine passion for his causes, which is more than I can say for a lot of the people decrying what he does.The fact is, the Bush Administration fucked up. That's not a debatable point. We were supposed to go after Al Qaeda, but we decided to take out Saddam instead. Big fucking mistake, because Bin Laden (or the actor portraying him, as I'd like to think the real deal is eight feet under a pile of rubble) is way more credible in the Arab world than he was before. Whether Moore actually seeks the truth or is just using the oppertunity to push his agenda, it sickens me that a lot of the same Repubs who dived nose-first into Bill Clinton's personal affairs are "shocked" that Bush is being called to task on charges far more serious than a goddam blowjob. Ann Coulter and Fox News are just as deserving of the "radical" label Moore often gets, those motherfuckers can all go fuck themselves. It's an insane world we're living in. Back to the good old days of the Cold War, I say. Those Russians sure knew when to give and when to take...:nuts:

Finally! Reason in a howling wind of garbage!

No one ever talks about Bin Laden anymore...just Iraq. I'm all for the military kicking a** and getting the f**kers who bombed us...but lets at least put some resources into getting the right guys who are in Afganistan/pakistan and in Saudi Arabia (interesting that noone ever mentions them either). The $400 billion being spent in Iraq would have been much better spent getting Bin Laden and his crew first.

Oh and does anyone else believe that we couldn't have found another way to take out Saddam for less than $400billion...I mean how much does that work out to be for every Iraqi? Couldn't we just have spent $20 billion in bribes...thats how we got Saddam's sons and prolly him as well....

At the beginning we had the world with us in Afganistan and Al Qaida on the run...now we are on the run out of Iraq with our tail between our legs...totally bass ackwards.

Oh yeah...gotta love those "principled" "integrity" and "honesty" pounding right wingers who were so worried about Clinton getting some on the side (stupid and wrong to be sure) but they call it treason to question why there aren't weapons of mass destruction...or terrorists in Iraq.

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The Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer

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Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr The Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer

does anyone really give a flying fook for that fat fook of a fake documentarian?

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Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> The Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer

does anyone really give a flying fook for that fat fook of a fake documentarian?

Disney sure does, they didn't want to lose those tax breaks :nonono:

I think the film needs to be seen, even if it is complete and utter horseshit. After all, that's what Hollywood is known for. :D

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Originally posted by Taboo # 7 > Originally posted by Tristan Jayol> > > > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> > The Fahrenheit 9/11 trailer>

does anyone really give a flying fook for that fat fook of a fake documentarian?

Disney sure does, they didn't want to lose those tax breaks :nonono:

I think the film needs to be seen, even if it is complete and utter horseshit. After all, that's what Hollywood is known for. :D It's gotten so much press (mostly due to Moore's complaining and bitching) that it could make lots of money potentially. Hopefully it flops.

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Is there anything so sweet in this world as watching a Bush go down in flames?

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Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr Is there anything so sweet in this world as watching a Bush go down in flames?

Bush won't go down just yet. Wait until gas prices go down and after June 30th. July will be Bush's month to beat Kerry down. Anyways there will still be a Republican Congress, and a majority of Republican governors.

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Oh yeah...gotta love those "principled" "integrity" and "honesty" pounding right wingers who were so worried about Clinton getting some on the side (stupid and wrong to be sure) but they call it treason to question why there aren't weapons of mass destruction...or terrorists in Iraq.

there are plenty of terrorists NOW in Iraq... and plenty mass violence and destruction NOW.... see, they knew Iraq's true potential and fulfilled it...

and they are going to start drafting poor young males after the election to keep fighting these terrorists, instead of throwing younger men into jails at a record rate, they are going to send them to do something productive and carry weapons in Iraq.

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Originally posted by Tristan Jayol > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> Is there anything so sweet in this world as watching a Bush go down in flames?

Bush won't go down just yet. Wait until gas prices go down and after June 30th. July will be Bush's month to beat Kerry down. Anyways there will still be a Republican Congress, and a majority of Republican governors.

this election year should be extremely entertaining and scary.... The Bush group has no shame whatsover, but they will have to at least make the Middle East look stable for a few months so oil prices can stop being so nervous. At the smae time they have to make people worried about terrorism in the USA but also think that the Middle East is settling down at the same time, and find more excuses for the validity of the war. US can't pull out now, even if Kerry can win despite Bush's cheating.

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You should watch 911-The Road to Tyranny, by Alex Jones. It gave Michael Moore all the ammunition.

infowars.com prisonplanet.com propagandamatrix.com

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June 20, 2004

Will Michael Moore's Facts Check Out? By PHILIP SHENON

HOLLYWOOD, Calif.

MICHAEL MOORE is not coy about his hopes for "Fahrenheit 9/11," his blistering documentary attack on President Bush and the war in Iraq. He wants it to be remembered as the first big-audience, election-year film that helped unseat a president.

"And it's not just a hope," the Oscar-winning filmmaker said in a phone interview last week, describing focus groups in Michigan in April at which, after seeing the movie, previously undecided voters expressed eagerness to defeat Mr. Bush. "We found that if you entered the theater on the fence, you fell off it somewhere during those two hours," he said. "It ignites a fire in people who had given up."

The movie's indictment of the president is nothing if not sprawling. Mr. Moore suggests that Mr. Bush and his administration jeopardized national security in an effort to placate Bush family cronies in Saudi Arabia, that the White House helped members of Mr. bin Laden's family to flee the United States after Sept. 11 and that the administration manipulated terrorism alert levels in order to scare Americans into supporting the invasion of Iraq.

Mr. Moore's previous films generated a cottage industry of conservative commentators eager to prove sloppiness and exaggeration in his films; a handful of mainstream critics have also found flaws. But if "Fahrenheit 9/11" attracts the audience Mr. Moore and his distributors are predicting, Mr. Moore may face an onslaught of fact-checking unlike anything he — or any other documentary filmmaker — has ever experienced. After all, White House officials and the Bush family began impugning the film even before any of them had seen it.

"Outrageously false," said Dan Bartlett, the White House communications director, last month when told about the film's assertion of a sinister connection between Mr. Bush and the family of Osama bin Laden. The former president George H. W. Bush was quoted in The New York Daily News calling Mr. Moore a "slime ball" and describing the documentary as "a vicious personal attack on our son."

So how will Mr. Moore's movie stand up under close examination? Is the film's depiction of Mr. Bush as a lazy and duplicitous leader, blinded by his family's financial ties to Arab moneymen and the Saudi Arabian royal family, true to fact?

Mr. Moore and his distributors have refused to circulate copies of the film and its script before the film's release this Friday; his production team said that as of last Wednesday, there was no final script because the film was still undergoing minor editing — for clarity, they said, not accuracy.

After a year spent covering the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, I was recently allowed to attend a Hollywood screening. Based on that single viewing, and after separating out what is clearly presented as Mr. Moore's opinion from what is stated as fact, it seems safe to say that central assertions of fact in "Fahrenheit 9/11" are supported by the public record (indeed, many of them will be familiar to those who have closely followed Mr. Bush's political career).

Mr. Moore is on firm ground in arguing that the Bushes, like many prominent Texas families with oil interests, have profited handsomely from their relationships with prominent Saudis, including members of the royal family and of the large and fabulously wealthy bin Laden clan, which has insisted it long ago disowned Osama. Mr. Moore spends several minutes in the film documenting ties between the president and James R. Bath, a financial advisor to a prominent member of the bin Laden family who was an original investor in Mr. Bush's Arbusto energy company and who served with the future president in the Air National Guard in the early 1970's. The Bath friendship, which indirectly links Mr. Bush to the family of the world's most notorious terrorist, has received less attention from national news organization than it has from reporters in Texas, but it has been well documented.

Mr. Moore charges that President Bush and his aides paid too little attention to warnings in the summer of 2001 that Al Qaeda was about to attack, including a detailed Aug. 6, 2001, C.I.A. briefing that warned of terrorism within the country's borders. In its final report next month, the Sept. 11 commission can be expected to offer support to this assertion. Mr. Moore says that instead of focusing on Al Qaeda, the president spent 42 percent of his first eight months in office on vacation; the figure came not from a conspiracy-hungry Web site but from a calculation by The Washington Post.

The most valid criticisms of the film are likely to involve the artful way that Mr. Moore connects the facts, and whether he has left out others that might undermine his scalding attack. A great many statistics fly by in the movie — such as assertions that 6 percent to 7 percent of the United States is owned by Saudi Arabians, and that Saudi companies have paid more than $1.4 billion to Bush family interests. But Mr. Moore doesn't explain how he arrived at them, or what these vague interests comprise. Mr. Moore and his team say they have news reports and other evidence to back up the numbers and that it will be posted on his Web site (www.michaelmoore.com) after the film's release.

Mr. Moore may also be criticized for the way he portrays the evacuation of the extended bin Laden family from the United States after Sept. 11. As the Sept. 11 commission has found, the Saudi government was able to pull strings at senior levels of the Bush administration to help the bin Ladens leave the United States. But while the film clearly suggests that the flights occurred at a time when all air traffic was grounded immediately after the attacks ("Even Ricky Martin couldn't fly," Mr. Moore says over video of the singer wandering in an airport lobby), the Sept. 11 commission said in a report this April that there was "no credible evidence that any chartered flights of Saudi Arabian nationals departed the United States before the reopening of national airspace" and that the F.B.I. had concluded that no one aboard the flights was involved in Sept. 11.

In conversation, Mr. Moore defended the scene, saying his goal was to show how the White House was eager to bend and break the rules for Saudi friends — in this case, the extended family of the terrorist who had just brought down the twin towers and attacked the Pentagon. And as reporters have found, the White House still refuses to document fully how the flights were arranged.

"I don't want to get lost in the forest because of a single tree," Mr. Moore said. "The main point I want people to go away with is that these people got special treatment because they were bin Ladens or Saudi royals, and you and I would never have been given that treatment."

Mr. Moore may also have to defend his portrayal of Mr. Bush's presidency as sinking prior to Sept. 11, citing an inability to win support for his legislation. But he fails to mention that in May, Congress agreed to Mr. Bush's $1.35 trillion tax cut, the centerpiece of his legislative agenda. Mr. Moore said that his review of news coverage before Sept. 11 shows that, with or without the tax cut, the Bush presidency was floundering before the terrorist attacks. Mr. Moore said, "I've read what other people wrote and said at the time, and he was definitely on the ropes."

MR. MOORE usually revels in his role as the target of conservative attacks, and his delight in playing the mischievous, little-guy bomb-thrower has brought him fame, wealth and the devotion of fans more interested in rhetorical force than precision. But with "Fahrenheit" he has taken on his biggest and best-defended target yet, and his production staff says that on his orders they have taken no chances in checking and double-checking the film, knowing Bush supporters would pounce on factual mistakes.

Mr. Moore is readying for a conservative counterattack, saying he has created a political-style "war room" to offer an instant response to any assault on the film's credibility. He has retained Chris Lehane, a Democratic Party strategist known as a master of the black art of "oppo," or opposition research, used to discredit detractors. He also hired outside fact-checkers, led by a former general counsel of The New Yorker and a veteran member of that magazine's legendary fact-checking team, to vet the film. And he is threatening to go one step further, saying he has consulted with lawyers who can bring defamation suits against anyone who maligns the film or damages his reputation.

"We want the word out," says Mr. Moore, who says he should have responded more quickly to allegations of inaccuracy in his Oscar-winning 2002 anti-gun documentary, "Bowling for Columbine." "Any attempts to libel me will be met by force," he said, not an ounce of humor in his familiar voice. "The most important thing we have is truth on our side. If they persist in telling lies, knowingly telling a lie with malice, then I'll take them to court."

As proof of its scrupulousness, the Moore team cites adjustments it made to the film's portrayal of Attorney General John Ashcroft. The film is brutal to Mr. Ashcroft, depicting him as a glassy-eyed architect of efforts to shred the Constitution, who became Attorney General only after he proved himself so unpopular in his home state of Missouri that he lost a Senate race to a former Democratic governor who died in a plane crash a month before election day. "Voters preferred the dead guy," Mr. Moore deadpans in the film, a line that drew belly laughs at recent preview screenings. (In reality, voters knew they were in effect casting ballots for the governor's widow).

An earlier version of the film, however, included a reference to a widely circulated charge, broadcast by CBS News in July 2001, that Mr. Ashcroft had received warning of threats and stopped flying on commercial airlines. Tia Lessin, supervising producer of "Fahrenheit 9/11," said the reference to the CBS report was cut after Mr. Moore's fact-checking team found evidence that Mr. Ashcroft had flown commercially at least twice that summer.

"We have gone through every single word of this film — literally every word — and verified its accuracy," said Joanne Doroshow, a public interest lawyer and filmmaker who shared in a 1993 Oscar for documentaries and who joined the fact-checking effort last month. Ms. Doroshow is responsible for preparing what she calls a "fact-checking bible," with material ranging from newspaper and magazine articles to copies of the Federal Register, that will allow the film's lawyers and publicists to provide backup for its allegations.

That said, Mr. Moore's fact-checkers do not view the film as straight reportage. "This is an Op-Ed piece, it's not a news report," said Dev Chatillon, the former general counsel for The New Yorker. "This is not The New York Times, it's not a network news report. The facts have to be right, yes, but this is an individual's view of current events. And I'm a very firm believer that it is within everybody's right to examine the actions of their government."

Besides, it may turn out that the most talked-about moments in the film are the least impeachable. Mr. Moore makes extensive use of obscure footage from White House and network-news video archives, including long scenes that capture President Bush at his least articulate. For the White House, the most devastating segment of "Fahrenheit 9/11" may be the video of a befuddled-looking President Bush staying put for nearly seven minutes at a Florida elementary school on the morning of Sept. 11, continuing to read a copy of "My Pet Goat" to schoolchildren even after an aide has told him that a second plane has struck the twin towers. Mr. Bush's slow, hesitant reaction to the disastrous news has never been a secret. But seeing the actual footage, with the minutes ticking by, may prove more damaging to the White House than all the statistics in the world.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Here's another film with the Bush footage: Bush Knew

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Group Asks FEC About 'Fahrenheit' Ads

By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - A conservative group asked federal election officials on Thursday to investigate whether television ads for director Michael Moore (news)'s anti-Bush documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" violate campaign finance law regulating when commercials may feature a presidential candidate.

The Federal Election Commission might take months to issue a ruling on the complaint, making it unlikely the commission would act in time to affect the film's ad campaign. The two-hour documentary, which depicts President Bush as lazy and oblivious to warnings in summer 2001 that al-Qaida was poised to strike, opens nationwide on Friday.

The group Citizens United contended that commercials for "Fahrenheit 9/11" fall under federal campaign finance law. Regulations prohibit the use of corporate money to air ads identifying a presidential candidate in the 30 days before his party's nominating convention and the 60 days before the Nov. 2 election.

Bush will be nominated by the GOP during its New York convention Aug. 30-Sept. 2. Citizens United argued that "Fahrenheit 9/11" ads that identify Bush and are paid for with corporate money should be banned after July 31.

Moore called the complaint "a blatant attempt on the part of a right-wing, Republican-sponsored group to stop people from seeing my movie." He said he would fight the complaint, and members of the Congressional Black Caucus appearing with him at a news conference near the Capitol promised to help.

"It's a violation of my First Amendment rights that I cannot advertise my movie. It's a movie," Moore said. "I have not publicly endorsed John Kerry. I am an independent, I am not a member of the Democratic Party."

An exemption to the law frees a wide array of media organizations from the ban on the use of corporate money for ads identifying federal candidates close to elections. Moore, an Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker, and the film might be covered by the media exemption.

Citizens United contends that "Fahrenheit 9/11" is propaganda and doesn't qualify for the media exemption. It is among conservative groups that have tried to mobilize the public against the film, arguing that Moore's portrayal of the Bush administration is inaccurate.

The group's complaint names Moore; companies involved in the film's marketing and distribution, including Lions Gate Entertainment Corp., Cablevision Systems Corp., Viacom International; and brothers Harvey and Bob Weinstein, executives at the film company Miramax who formed a separate company to find a way to distribute Moore's film.

The complaint also contends that because Lions Gate is foreign-owned, the ads are subject to a ban on the use of foreign money for ads identifying presidential candidates close to elections.

"Fahrenheit 9/11" won the top honor at last month's Cannes Film Festival. Moore and his distributors lost their appeal Tuesday to lower its rating from R to PG-13.

The FEC issued a decision Thursday on ads involving another film, but commissioners said it doesn't address Moore or ads promoting "Fahrenheit 9/11." In that ruling, the FEC told an Arizona man he couldn't use corporate money to run ads promoting his documentary film and identifying Bush and congressional candidates close to the election.

David Hardy, president of the Bill of Rights Educational Foundation in Tucson, Ariz., had asked the commission for its advice on whether he could use foundation money for the ads. Hardy didn't ask the commission whether his ads would qualify for the media exemption.

___

Associated Press Writer Aparna Kumar contributed to this report.

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If it's legal, let the FEC do what it wants, but for fuck's sak the best thing to do is to ignore Moore or just bash him on the points of his substance-lacking films. If this happens, then Moore will scream conspiracy and get more attention. He's already heavy enough to create a gravitational field to force empty-minded lib.s to revolve around him, and the FEC acting against him would only add to this gluttonous idiot's fire.

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Originally posted by twist Mc Cain is backing Bush.

barely. he's said some pretty degrading (and funny) things about him on 'the daily show with jon stewart!' it's pretty obvious that on a personal level he thinks bush is a dumbass.

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