Democratic Party R.I.P.

Originally posted by Monkeys in a Bubble Good God your a right wing fuck nut. You need some sweaty man-love from Pat Robertson right about now.

Did that last week. I sent him packing with his tail between his legs!!

And...as a voter, taxpayer and a long-time member of the US Armed Forces, I feel that I have EARNED the right to be a "Right Wing Fuck Nut", so I just assume you say "Thank You" and go on your merry little way.

Nothing wrong with right wing fuck nuts; they mean wel.

Originally posted by Tristan Nothing wrong with right wing fuck nuts; they mean wel.

Ironic, even Kerry suggested that "Labels" mean nothing anymore. Hehehehhe...

Bush did not kill education, Hip/Hop killed education.

Does that apply to england as well? and the death of the english language?

Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by Spike> americans just keep getting stupider, look at all the money schools lost here, due to bush, if we where educated we would of got kerry, but some of us still have common sense, well i'll see you guys in Iraq in 2 years, this sucks......:(

When your nut sack drops finally and you do actually get out of school, then come back with an educated opinion. Quit blaming Bush because you can't spell...that's your own fault. As an American, YOU choose how much YOU study and YOU choose your grades. No one else does young Sir Spike. I like reading most of your posts here, but in this case...your young, uninformed opinion is really quite displeasing to me. You're of the genration that believes that P Diddy invented the remix too, huh?

Actually, Spike's comments are very well informed. It's a verifiable fact that Kerry's average supporter has a higher level of education than Bush's average supporter. He didn't actually back up his statement with any references (nor will I, unless challenged to-- and I always come through), but then, neither do you. You make blanket statements (see your previous post) that have no actual basis in fact. At least Spike's comments have some factual basis behind them. And true, I've occasionally ribbed him regarding his spelling, but then, he didn't just make a comment about voters going to the "poles," did he?

Spike's post was full of shit. Schools have not lost money because of Bush. They lost money because of poor state finances (a la California). Draft, psh we do not need a draft, and while it has been considered, there will be no draft.

Since I don't actually know anything about education policy, I'll avoid making comments about it...

But, to the extent that Spike addressed the differing education levels attained by the average supporters of each candidate, he's absolutely right.

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr Since i don't actually know anything about education policy, I'll avoid making comments about it... But, to the extent that Spike addressed the differing education levels attained by the average supporters of each candidate, he's absolutely right.

I do not doubt that, but IMO this discredits the Democrats rather than the Republicans. The elephants were smart enough to realize they could sway idiots, but the asses... well were complete ignorant asses.

I am not an idiot (at least I do not think I am an idiot ) and I do not care that my fellow Republicans are a slightly more evolved form of bread mold. Bush has four more years, period.

Relax, I'm not interested in any superiority contests between me and some high school dropout who voted for Bush (and I'm not lumping you in that category). I'm merely responding to an unfair personal attack on Spike.

Originally posted by Monkeys in a Bubble Good God your a right wing fuck nut. You need some sweaty man-love from Pat Robertson right about now.

Could you arrange some love for me from the pink haired woman?

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr > Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by Spike> americans just keep getting stupider, look at all the money schools lost here, due to bush, if we where educated we would of got kerry, but some of us still have common sense, well i'll see you guys in Iraq in 2 years, this sucks......:(

When your nut sack drops finally and you do actually get out of school, then come back with an educated opinion. Quit blaming Bush because you can't spell...that's your own fault. As an American, YOU choose how much YOU study and YOU choose your grades. No one else does young Sir Spike. I like reading most of your posts here, but in this case...your young, uninformed opinion is really quite displeasing to me. You're of the genration that believes that P Diddy invented the remix too, huh?

Actually, Spike's comments are very well informed. It's a verifiable fact that Kerry's average supporter has a higher level of education than Bush's average supporter. He didn't actually back up his statement with any references (nor will I, unless challenged to-- and I always come through), but then, neither do you. You make blanket statements (see your previous post) that have no actual basis in fact. At least Spike's comments have some factual basis behind them. And true, I've occasionally ribbed him regarding his spelling, but then, he didn't just make a comment about voters going to the "poles," did he?

Let's all take a step back, shall we? I think we can stipulate that both sides attract smart folks. However, lefties (usually those that have made school a career and have never pulled a private sector paycheck) think those that didn't choose higher education are somehow less intelligent. So, your plumber, your carpenter, your truck driver (if he's in a right-to-work state and hasn't had his union dues sent to the DNC against his wishes) your stay at home mom who identify with Republican's because of such issues as taxes and morality are viewed as "unenlightened".

The real question is, what does the uber-schooled lefty think about those in his party that instead of kicking back with with a few hundred pages of Chomsky on a Saturday night would rather kick it with a forty and 50 Cent? What does he think about the guy that would rather watch Sabado Gigante on Univision than read Slate online? What does he think about the jr. college drop outs sipping their triple lattes and expounding on how Cameron Diaz was so right that if you don't vote rape will become legal?

Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by Monkeys in a Bubble> Good God your a right wing fuck nut. You need some sweaty man-love from Pat Robertson right about now.

Did that last week. I sent him packing with his tail between his legs!!

And...as a voter, taxpayer and a long-time member of the US Armed Forces, I feel that I have EARNED the right to be a "Right Wing Fuck Nut", so I just assume you say "Thank You" and go on your merry little way.

Nicely played.

Sorry, gotta run to catch public transit, but interesting points; I'll give a response tomorrow.

Gotta love the disarray on http://www.democraticunderground.com

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr Sorry, gotta run to catch public transit, but interesting points; I'll give a response tomorrow.

.....just a little extra. This is from a post a democraticunderground.

Here's another problem: I believe that party elites are disproportionately drawn from the first two groups: Left-liberals and center-left libertarians. I know lots of Democrats here in Washington, DC, and they are almost all relatively affluent professional types from the Northeast or West Coast who don't have any life experience at all interacting with regular people from middle America. In fact, their opinion of them could almost be described as contemptuous. At a minimum, I think it could be called condescending. We think that we are doing "those people" a favor by supporting policies which will help them, and quite frankly we feel a little offended that they aren't thanking us for looking out for them.

Just don't think that Bush isn't part of the elite. Don't forget his family background.

I am not elite, never will be and never want to be. I like dirt bikes, dirty women, smoking cigarettes in public and beating up old people. I am a republican.

I thank god that Bush is one of those elites, because I don't want any of "My kind" sitting in the big chair. No way jose!!!!

Originally posted by Michael McDermott > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> > > > Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS> > Originally posted by Spike> americans just keep getting stupider, look at all the money schools lost here, due to bush, if we where educated we would of got kerry, but some of us still have common sense, well i'll see you guys in Iraq in 2 years, this sucks......:(

When your nut sack drops finally and you do actually get out of school, then come back with an educated opinion. Quit blaming Bush because you can't spell...that's your own fault. As an American, YOU choose how much YOU study and YOU choose your grades. No one else does young Sir Spike. I like reading most of your posts here, but in this case...your young, uninformed opinion is really quite displeasing to me. You're of the genration that believes that P Diddy invented the remix too, huh?

Actually, Spike's comments are very well informed. It's a verifiable fact that Kerry's average supporter has a higher level of education than Bush's average supporter. He didn't actually back up his statement with any references (nor will I, unless challenged to-- and I always come through), but then, neither do you. You make blanket statements (see your previous post) that have no actual basis in fact. At least Spike's comments have some factual basis behind them. And true, I've occasionally ribbed him regarding his spelling, but then, he didn't just make a comment about voters going to the "poles," did he?

Let's all take a step back, shall we? I think we can stipulate that both sides attract smart folks. However, lefties (usually those that have made school a career and have never pulled a private sector paycheck) think those that didn't choose higher education are somehow less intelligent. So, your plumber, your carpenter, your truck driver (if he's in a right-to-work state and hasn't had his union dues sent to the DNC against his wishes) your stay at home mom who identify with Republican's because of such issues as taxes and morality are viewed as "unenlightened".

The real question is, what does the uber-schooled lefty think about those in his party that instead of kicking back with with a few hundred pages of Chomsky on a Saturday night would rather kick it with a forty and 50 Cent? What does he think about the guy that would rather watch Sabado Gigante on Univision than read Slate online? What does he think about the jr. college drop outs sipping their triple lattes and expounding on how Cameron Diaz was so right that if you don't vote rape will become legal?

You know, I actually kind of agree with you. I remmber reading that the unversities are the strongholds of the US left and wondering if such a 'left' is really worth having. I get worked up with class resentment when I read the bloody Guardian, and I'm lower middle class myself, I can only imagine how the ordinary folk of Ohio reacted to that daft letter writing campaign the paper ran.

(But although the educated 'elite' are more likely to be Democrat, its still the rich who are more likely to be Republican)

I also find it weird that the US right is so hostile to Iran. The two have such a lot in common - both favour similar polices on law-and-order, the death penalty, abortion, gays, etc. Both have a powerful elite using the religious fervour of the masses together with fear of outside threats to stay in power, and in both the pressure for reform comes mostly from the educated professional classes, who can seem snobbish and out of touch with the ordinary people.

Bush got 59 million votes. The most ever.

For the Democrat feeling a need to apologize for their pathetic efforts: http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

That sad truth here is that even still, more and more folks are coming out and saying that they weren't on the side of the dems, but merely didn't want bush...so this other 49 million or so that voted for kerry number...technically is shrinking!!

Hooooray!!! So lemme get this straight...the number of voters for Bush went up this morning and Kerry's KEEP dwindling...

Obviously, Ol' Bushy may not be as screwed up and many might suggest. Hmmmm...But I guess the minority here (Kerryites) are better educated and thus know what they're talking about, right? Ppbbbssh!! :p

Originally posted by twist

Bush got 59 million votes. The most ever.

See that? Good. Now read it again. OK...go cry elsewhere.

(Smiley Alert)

Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by twist> > > > > Bush got 59 million votes. The most ever.

See that? Good. Now read it again. OK...go cry elsewhere.

(Smiley Alert)

Big Fucking Deal.

Bush got the most votes ever at a time when our population is the highest it's ever been? Wow, that's really significant. I'm so impressed.

He still only got 51% of the votes cast.

Big Fucking Deal.

Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS That sad truth here is that even still, more and more folks are coming out and saying that they weren't on the side of the dems, but merely didn't want bush...so this other 49 million or so that voted for kerry number...technically is shrinking!!

The actual number of votes Kerry received to date were 55,949,407.

Besides your now expected factual error, you haven't explained why you think it's inconsistent for someone to vote against Bush, and simultaneously wish for a candidate who more reflected their own values.

Hooooray!!! So lemme get this straight...the number of voters for Bush went up this morning and Kerry's KEEP dwindling...

When you get it straight, do let us know. Until then, see above.

That number is was loose number taking into account all the people who voted for Kerry SOLELY to NOT vote for Bush Sir Continental. Many people in this country voted NOT for Kerry per se, but because they believed it fasionable to do so as explained to them by the Rock the Vote/90210 crowd. This is no secret and I apoligize if you were confused by the way I had chosen to post it.

The "Ending" figures are also incomplete in that there is still only 99% reporting of the precincts so far of stateside votes. There are still many absentee ballots to be counted yet, and while they will not change the numbers significantly, they will change still.

But anyways, it's all over and if we can't laugh and joke about it and rag on the media, the sself-destructing party and whoever...then what in the hell are even voting for? This is all a big joke now so let us take a deep breath and get back to our normal routine of trying to convice Diggy Mike that Blue Monday isn't that bad, laughing at Taboo#7's hilarious satire, your amazingly funny responses to about 92% of all posts, reading about the continuing adventures of ...this blue eyed boy's love of the Cure and so on and on and on.... I'm sober now too so I should be more behaved.

Viva la Nool.

Peace Out My Gangsta Pimp Bitches...damn glad this god forsaken election is ova!

M. Moore still sucks ass.

Thanks for the compliments.

I think we can both agree that the votes are still rolling in, so the final tally remains unknown. The 3.5 million number was the most current one I could find.

And I think we can both agree that many people who voted for Kerry would have preferred to vote for somebody who more closely reflected their own beliefs, but we live in a winner-take-all system. We can probably even both agree that many Bush voters would have preferred the same thing-- somebody who more closely reflected their own beliefs.

Well, sometime in the next 4 years, we can all move on to arguing about the new release from New Order. Right after the next 10 releases from The Cure.

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr And I think we can both agree that many people who voted for Kerry would have preferred to vote for somebody who more closely reflected their own beliefs...we can probably even both agree that many Bush voters would have preferred the same thing-- somebody who more closely reflected their own beliefs.

Fair Enough.

FOUR years for another freaking NO album!!!!??? Are you kidding!!!?? Ain't you being a bit optimistic!?

Originally posted by Michael McDermott Let's all take a step back, shall we? I think we can stipulate that both sides attract smart folks. However, lefties (usually those that have made school a career and have never pulled a private sector paycheck) think those that didn't choose higher education are somehow less intelligent.

For the sake of argument, let's say that somebody somewhere in academia thinks that "those that didn't choose higher education are somehow less intelligent." Do you have any evidence that all-- or even most-- "lefties" believe that?

The only person I ever heard make that claim was an ex-girlfriend: blue collar, high school dropout, and self-conscious about it. She always equated intelligence with education, and I always pointed out to her that the two are not synonomous.

Having said that, it's probably accurate to state that the smartest of the high school students go on to higher education, and the least smart of the high school students don't, because colleges base their admissions on academic performance. Yeah, some people who are not very bright get into the best colleges (W comes to mind), and some people who are very bright never get the opportunity. But overall, it probably averages out that the smartest students go on to higher education. And the brightest grads go on to the best-paying jobs in the largest cities. On average.

And it's also accurate to state that those who spend a substantial amount of time in academia usually acquire critical thinking skills that prove useful in the outside world. That's a large part of what we do in school-- learn how to think critically. Can someone learn crtical thinking skills without going to university? Probably, but the odds are against it.

But even given all those factors, it's an enormous leap to argue that "lefties...think that those that didn't choose higher education are somehow less intelligent." It's an unsubstantiated argument, which works well in the right-wing media, because there's nobody to respond, but outside of the right-wing media, it falls apart if there's nothing to back it up.

So, your plumber, your carpenter, your truck driver (if he's in a right-to-work state and hasn't had his union dues sent to the DNC against his wishes) your stay at home mom who identify with Republican's because of such issues as taxes and morality are viewed as "unenlightened".

By the same lefties, I presume? Let's go with your premise, and substitute me for your straw-man lefty.

I don't think of any of the above-mentioned persons as either enlightened or unenlightened. I don't think it's possible to say "all carpenters believe..." or "all stay-at-home moms believe..." What people believe depends upon who you're talking to, not what their occupation happens to be (yeah, yeah, the trucker probably believes the price of diesel is too high, etc.).

However, I do think that a working person-- a plumber, a carpenter, a trucker-- who identifies with the Republican party because of an issue like taxes hasn't done his/her homework. Bush's tax agenda is to shift the tax burden from income-earners to wage-earners, from the upper class to the working class, and that only hurts the working person.

I do think that if somebody is going to vote on "morality" issues, they do have the responsibility to inform themselves about what they're voting on. For example, here in Oregon, there was a ballot measure to define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. The arguments in favor of the measure were:

1. Children need a mother and a father;

2. Marriage is for procreation; and

3. We don't want gay sex taught in our schools.

Fair enough, at least on 1 and 3, but none of those arguments was addressed by the ballot measure. Gay and lesbian couples have children, and will continue to have children. The ballot measure doesn't change that. Many married couples will never have children-- either through choice, or circumstance. Many married couples engage in non-procreational sex. The ballot measure doesn't change that. And finally, gay sex is not taught in schools, any more than straight sex is. The ballot measure doesn't cahnge anything there either. Despite these facts, people wrote in to the newspaper regularly, urging for passage of the measure on the basis of these arguments, which means they were either uninformed about what the measure actually does, or they knew what the measure does, but were being deliberately deceptive about it in order to legislate their own brand of morality.

The real question is, what does the uber-schooled lefty think about those in his party that instead of kicking back with with a few hundred pages of Chomsky on a Saturday night would rather kick it with a forty and 50 Cent? What does he think about the guy that would rather watch Sabado Gigante on Univision than read Slate online? What does he think about the jr. college drop outs sipping their triple lattes and expounding on how Cameron Diaz was so right that if you don't vote rape will become legal?

I presume by the party of the "uber-schooled lefty" you mean the Democratic party? I don't think Democrats have anything more than a vague notion of who Noam Chomsky is. Democrats don't read Chomsky; "uber-schooled lefties" do. But then, "uber-schooled lefties," by and large, are not Democrats.

To answer your "real question": who cares what some Chomsky-reading, espresso-guzzling lefty thinks of someone else's entertainment choices? I rather doubt the average lefty even gives it much thought. Are there class differences between the guy reading Chomsky and the guy watching Sabado Gigante? Probably. Does the guy reading Chomsky assume that the guy watching Sabado Gigante is a Bush-voting moron? I doubt it.