OUR FUTURE, WE NORTH AMERICANS...
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Fook that! California could set out on its own and be right up there with the economies of the Brits and Frogs. Screw Canada! :p
Friday, November 5th, 2004 17 Reasons Not to Slit Your Wrists...by Michael Moore
Dear Friends,
Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in the words of Monty Python, “always look on the bright side of life!” There IS some good news from Tuesday's election.
Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:
It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.
Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults (Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always wrong and you should never listen to them.
In spite of Bush's win, the majority of the Americans still think the country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), thinks the war is a mistake (51%), and doesn’t approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)
The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.
Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water, all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in lava. And no more show tunes!
Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut. May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.
88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.
Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't have to buy now.
Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress, including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates can't.
The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!
Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.
At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3 chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the 2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53 chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47 chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber (Montana House) is still undecided.
Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out -- and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.
Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from office.
There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are coming!!!
Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore. Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact, that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November 2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of surprise in 2008.
Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"
But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.
Yours,
Michael Moore MMFlint@aol.com www.michaelmoore.com
Thursday, November 4th, 2004 My first thoughts after the election...
Cpl. Roberto Abad, Sgt. Michael D. Acklin II, Spc. Genaro Acosta, Pfc. Steven Acosta, Capt. James F. Adamouski, Pvt. Algernon Adams, Sgt. Brandon E. Adams, Spc. Clarence Adams III, 1st Lt. Michael R. Adams, Pfc. Michael S. Adams, Lt. Thomas Mullen Adams, Spc. Jamaal R. Addison, Lance Cpl. Patrick R. Adle, Capt. Tristan N. Aitken, Spc. Segun Frederick Akintade, Lance Cpl. Nickalous N. Aldrich, Spc. Ronald D. Allen Jr., Sgt. Glenn R. Allison, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Allred, Capt. Eric L. Allton, Cpl. Nicanor Alvarez, Cpl. Daniel R. Amaya, Pfc. John D. Amos II, Lance Cpl. Brian E. Anderson, Airman 1st Class Carl L. Anderson Jr., Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael C. Anderson, Spc. Michael Andrade, Pfc, Spc. Yoe M. Aneiros, Lance Cpl. Levi T. Angell, Army Spc. Edward J. Anguiano, Chief Warrant Officer Andrew Todd Arnold, Lance Cpl. Alexander S. Arredondo, Spc. Richard Arriaga, Staff Sgt. Jimmy J. Arroyave, Spc. Robert R. Arsiaga, Sgt. Evan Asa Ashcraft, Pfc. Shawn M. Atkins, Maj. Jay Aubin, Capt. Matthew J. August, Lance Cpl. Aaron C. Austin, Spc. Tyanna S. Avery-Fedder, Lance Cpl. Andrew Julian Aviles, Pfc. Eric A. Ayon, Sgt. 1st Class Henry A. Bacon, Sgt. Andrew Joseph Baddick, Staff Sgt. Daniel A. Bader, Staff Sgt. Nathan J. Bailey, Spc. Ronald W. Baker, Spc. Ryan T. Baker, Sgt. Sherwood R. Baker.
Pfc. Chad E. Bales, 1st Lt. Kenneth Michael Ballard, Maj. Spc. Solomon C. Bangayan, Lt. Col. Dominic R. Baragona, Pfc. Mark A. Barbret, Pfc. Collier E. Barcus, Sgt. Michael C. Barkey, Spc. Jonathan P. Barnes, Command Sgt. Maj. Edward C. Barnhill, Lance Cpl. Aric J. Barr, Sgt. Michael Paul Barrera, Maj. Carlos Barro Ollero, Sgt. Douglas E. Bascom, Spc. Todd M. Bates, Sgt. 1st Class Michael Battles Sr., Gunnery Sgt. Ronald E. Baum, Spc. Alan N. Bean Jr., Spc. Bradley S. Beard, Spc. Beau R. Beaulieu, Capt. Ryan Beaupre, Spc. James L. Beckstrand, Sgt. Gregory A. Belanger, Cpl. Christopher Belchik, Sgt. Aubrey D. Bell, Pfc. Wilfred D. Bellard, Staff Sgt. Joseph P. Bellavia, Sgt. 1st Class William M. Bennett, Spc. Robert T. Benson, 1st Lt. David R. Bernstein, Spc. Joel L. Bertoldie, Staff Sgt. Stephen A. Bertolino Sr., Staff Sgt. Marvin Best, Cpl. Mark A. Bibby, Sgt. Benjamin W. Biskie, Sgt. Michael E. Bitz, Sgt. Jarrod W. Black, Chief Warrant Officer Michael T. Blaise, Capt. Ernesto M. Blanco, Command Sgt. Maj. James D. Blankenbecler, Spc. Joseph M. Blickenstaff, Spc. Nicholas H. Blodgett, Sgt. Trevor A. Blumberg, Lance Cpl. Jeremy L. Bohlman, Gunnery Sgt. Jeffrey E. Bohr Jr., Lance Cpl. Todd J. Bolding, Sgt. Dennis J. Boles, Sgt. 1st Class Craig A. Boling, Petty Officer 3rd Class Doyle W. Bollinger Jr, Sgt. 1st Class Kelly Bolor, Staff Sgt. Stevon A. Booker.
Chief Warrant Officer Clarence E. Boone, Capt. John J. Boria, Pfc. Rachel K. Bosveld, Spc. Mathew G. Boule, Staff Sgt. Elvis Bourdon, Pvt. 1st Class Samuel R. Bowen, Staff Sgt. Hesley Box Jr., Pvt. Noah L. Boye, Lance Cpl. Aaron Boyles, Spc. Edward W. Brabazon, Cpl. Travis J. Bradach-Nall, Staff Sgt. Kenneth R. Bradley, Staff Sgt. Stacey C. Brandon, Spc. Artimus D. Brassfield, Pfc. Joel K. Brattain, Pfc. Jeffrey F. Braun, Chief Warrant Officer William I. Brennan, Staff Sgt. Steven H. Bridges, Spc. Kyle A. Brinlee, Staff Sgt. Cory W. Brooks, Sgt. Thomas F. Broomhead, Sgt. Andrew W. Brown, Tech. Sgt. Bruce E. Brown, Lance Cpl. Dominic C. Brown, Cpl. Henry L. Brown, Pfc. John E. Brown, Spc. Larry K. Brown, Spc. Lunsford B. Brown II, 1st Lt. Tyler H. Brown, Spc. Philip D. Brown, Pfc. Timmy R. Brown Jr., 1st Lt. Tyler H. Brown, Cpl. Andrew D. Brownfield, Petty Officer 3rd Class Nathan B. Bruckenthal, Lance Cpl. Cedric E. Bruns, 2nd Lt. Todd J. Bryant, Sgt. Ernest G. Bucklew, Spc. Roy Russell Buckley, Pfc. Paul J. Bueche, Lt. Col. Charles H. Buehring, Lance Cpl. Brian Rory Buesing, Sgt. George Edward Buggs, Spc. Joshua I. Bunch, Staff Sgt. Christopher Bunda, Staff Sgt. Michael L. Burbank, Staff Sgt. Richard A. Burdick, Spc. Alan J. Burgess, Lance Cpl. Jeffrey C. Burgess, Pfc. Tamario D. Burkett, Sgt. Travis L. Burkhardt.
Pfc. David P. Burridge, Pfc. Jesse R. Buryj, Pfc. Charles E. Bush Jr., Pvt. Matthew D. Bush, Pfc. Damian S. Bushart, Sgt. Jacob L. Butler, Capt. Joshua T. Byers, Cpl. Juan C. Cabralbanuelos, Pfc. Cody S. Calavan, Sgt. Juan Calderon Jr, Sgt. Charles T. Caldwell, Spc. Nathaniel A. Caldwell, Staff Sgt. Joseph Camara, Spc. Michael C. Campbell, Sgt. Ryan M. Campbell, Spc. Marvin A. Camposiles, Spc. Isaac Campoy, Spc. Ervin Caradine Jr., Spc. Adolfo C. Carballo, Pfc. Michael M. Carey, Cpl. Richard P. Carl, Pfc. Ryan G. Carlock, Pfc. Benjamin R. Carman, Staff Sgt. Edward W. Carmen, Spc. Jocelyn L. Carrasquillo, Sgt. Frank T. Carvill, Capt. Christopher S. Cash, Spc. Ahmed A. Cason, Pfc. Jose Casanova, Lance Cpl. James A. Casper, Capt. Paul J. Cassidy, Staff Sgt. Roland L. Castro, Sgt. Sean K. Cataudella, Lance Cpl. Steven C. T. Cates, Pfc. Thomas D. Caughman, Staff Sgt. James W. Cawley, Spc. Jessica L. Cawvey, Petty Officer 3rd Class David A. Cedergren, Lance Cpl. Manuel A. Ceniceros, Cpl. Kemaphoom A. Chanawongse, Spc. James A. Chance III, Staff Sgt. William D. Chaney, Chief Warrant Officer Robert William Channell Jr., Spc. Jason K. Chappell, Pfc. Jonathan M. Cheatham, Sgt. Yohjyh L. Chen, Lance Cpl. Marcus M. Cherry, 2nd Lt. Therrel S. Childers, Spc. Andrew F. Chris.
Staff Sgt. Thomas W. Christensen, Spc. Brett T. Christian, Spc. Arron R. Clark, Staff Sgt. Michael J. Clark, Lance Cpl. Donald J. Cline Jr., Pfc. Christopher R. Cobb, Lance Cpl. Kyle W. Codner, 1st Sgt. Christopher D. Coffin, Pvt. Bradli N. Coleman, Cpl. Gary B. Coleman, 2nd Lt. Benjamin J. Colgan, Sgt. Russell L. Collier, Sgt. 1st Class Gary L. Collins, Lance Cpl. Jonathan W. Collins, Chief Warrant Officer Lawrence S. Colton, Spc. Zeferino E. Colunga, Sgt. Robert E. Colvill, Sgt. Kenneth Conde Jr., Sgt. Timothy M. Conneway, Spc. Steven D. Conover, Capt. Aaron J. Contreras, Lance Cpl. Pedro Contreras, Sgt. Jason Cook, Command Sgt. Major Eric F. Cooke, Sgt. Dennis A. Corral, Chief Warrant Officer Alexander S. Coulter, 2nd Lt. Leonard M. Cowherd, Spc. Gregory A. Cox, Pfc. Ryan R. Cox, Lance Corporal Timothy R. Creager, Sgt. Michael T. Crockett, Staff Sgt. Ricky L. Crockett, Sgt. Brud J. Cronkrite, Lance Cpl. Kyle D. Crowley, Pvt. Rey D. Cuervo, Pfc. Kevin A. Cuming, Spc. Daniel Francis J. Cunningham, Staff Sgt. Darren J. Cunningham, Spc. Carl F. Curran, Cpl. Michael Edward Curtin, Staff Sgt. Christopher E. Cutchall, Pfc. Brian K. Cutter, Pfc. Anthony D. D'Agostino, Spc. Edgar P. Daclan Jr., Capt. Nathan S. Dalley, Lance Cpl. Andrew S. Dang, Spc. Danny B. Daniels II, Pvt. 1st Class Torey J. Dantzler, Pfc. Norman Darling, Capt. Eric B. Das.
Spc. Shawn M. Davies, Pvt. Brandon L. Davis, Staff Sgt. Craig Davis, Staff Sgt. Donald N. Davis, Spc. Raphael S. Davis, Staff Sgt. Wilbert Davis, Staff Sgt. Jeffrey F. Dayton, Pvt. Jason L. Deibler, Spc. Lauro G. DeLeon Jr., Sgt. Felix M. Delgreco, Sgt. Jacob H. Demand, Staff Sgt. Mike A. Dennie, Spc. Darryl T. Dent, Pfc. Ervin Dervishi, Spc. Daniel A. Desens, Pfc. Michael R. Deuel, Pvt. Michael J. Deutsch, Petty Officer 3rd Class Christopher M. Dickerson, Cpl. Nicholas J. Dieruf, Spc. Jeremiah J. DiGiovanni, Spc. Jeremy M. Dimaranan, Spc. Michael A. Diraimondo, Spc. Anthony J. Dixon, Spc. Ryan E. Doltz, Sgt. Michael E. Dooley, Chief Warrant Officer Patrick D. Dorff, Petty Officer 2nd Class Trace W. Dossett, Lance Cpl. Scott E. Dougherty, 1st Sgt. Robert J. Dowdy, Pfc. Stephen P. Downing II, Spc. Chad H. Drake, Pvt. Jeremy L. Drexler, Cpl. Jason L. Dunham, Staff Sgt. Joe L. Dunigan Jr., Spc. Robert L. DuSang, Spc. William D. Dusenbery, 2nd Lt. Seth J. Dvorin, Petty Officer 2nd Class Jason B. Dwelley, Pfc. Sheldon R. Hawk Eagle, Staff Sgt. Richard S. Eaton Jr., Cpl. Christopher S. Ebert, Sgt. William C. Eckhart, Spc. Marshall L. Edgerton, Pfc. Shawn C. Edwards, Spc. Andrew C. Ehrlich, Sgt. Aaron C. Elandt, Spc. William R. Emanuel IV, Lance Cpl. Mark E. Engel, Spc. Peter G. Enos, Senior Airman Pedro I. Espaillat Jr.
Pfc. Analaura Esparza Gutierrez, Sgt. Adam W. Estep, Pvt. Ruben Estrella-Soto, Pfc. David Evans, Cpl. Mark A. Evnin, Pfc. Jeremy Ricardo Ewing, Sgt. Justin L. Eyerly, Pvt. Jonathan I. Falaniko, Sgt. James D. Faulkner, Pfc. Raymond J. Faulstich Jr., Capt. Brian R. Faunce, Capt. Arthur L. Felder, 2nd Lt. Paul M. Felsberg, Spc. Rian C. Ferguson, Master Sgt. Richard L. Ferguson, Master Sgt. George A. Fernandez, Staff Sgt. Clint D. Ferrin, Spc. Jon P. Fettig, Cpl. Tyler R. Fey, Sgt. Jeremy J. Fischer, Sgt. Paul F. Fisher, Lance Cpl. Dustin R. Fitzgerald, Pfc. Jacob S. Fletcher, Spc. Thomas A. Foley III, Sgt. Timothy Folmar, Gunnery Sgt. Elia P. Fontecchio, Spc. Jason C. Ford, Capt. Travis A. Ford, Chief Warrant Officer Wesley C. Fortenberry, Sgt. 1st Class Bradley C. Fox, Spc. Craig S. Frank, Lance Cpl. Phillip E. Frank, Staff Sgt. Bobby C. Franklin, Pvt. Robert L. Frantz, Pvt. Benjamin L. Freeman, Sgt. David T. Friedrich, Spc. Luke P. Frist, Spc. Adam D. Froehlich, Pvt. Kurt R. Frosheiser, Pfc. Nichole M. Frye, Sgt. 1st Class Dan H. Gabrielson, Lance Cpl. Jonathan E. Gadsden, Capt. Richard J. Gannon II, Spc. Tomas Garces, Lance Cpl. Derek L. Gardner, Cpl. Jose A. Garibay, Spc. Joseph M. Garmback Jr., Sgt. Landis W. Garrison, Sgt. Justin W. Garvey, Spc. Israel Garza.
1st Sgt. Joe J. Garza, Pfc. Juan Guadalupe Garza Jr, Spc. Christopher D. Gelineau, Lance Cpl. Cory Ryan Guerin, Cpl. Christopher A. Gibson, Pvt. Jonathan L. Gifford, Pvt. Kyle C. Gilbert, Command Sgt. Maj. Cornell W. Gilmore, Petty Officer 3rd Class Ronald A. Ginther, Pfc. Jesse A. Givens, Spc. Michael T. Gleason, Cpl. Todd J. Godwin, 2nd Lt. James Michael Goins, Spc. Christopher A. Golby, Spc. David J. Goldberg, Lance Cpl. Shane L. Goldman, Cpl. Armando Ariel Gonzalez, Lance Cpl. Benjamin R. Gonzalez, Cpl. Jesus A. Gonzalez, Cpl. Jorge Gonzalez, Lance Cpl. Victor A. Gonzalez, Cpl. Bernard G. Gooden, Pfc. Gregory R. Goodrich, Sgt. 1st Class Richard S. Gottfried, Spc. Richard A. Goward, 2nd Lt. Jeffrey C. Graham, Sgt. Jamie A. Gray, Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael J. Gray, Sgt. Tommy L. Gray, Lance Cpl. Torrey L. Gray, Cpl. Jeffrey G. Green, Lt. Col. David S. Greene, Pfc. Devin J. Grella, Spc. Kyle A. Griffin, Staff Sgt. Patrick Lee Griffin Jr., Cpl. Sean R. Grilley, Pvt. Joseph R. Guerrera, Chief Warrant Officer Hans N. Gukeisen, Pfc. Christian D. Gurtner, Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, Pfc. Richard W. Hafer, Staff Sgt. Guy S. Hagy Jr., Spc. Charles G. Haight, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Halal, Pfc. Deryk L. Hallal, Pvt. Jesse M. Halling, Pfc. Andrew Halverson, Chief Warrant Officer Erik A. Halvorsen, Capt. Kimberly N. Hampton, Sgt. Michael S. Hancock.
Pfc. Fernando B. Hannon, Sgt. Warren S. Hansen, Sgt. James W. Harlan, Sgt. Atanacio Haro Marin, Staff Sgt. William M. Harrell, Sgt. Foster L. Harrington, Pfc. Adam J. Harris, Sgt. Kenneth W. Harris Jr., Pfc. Torry D. Harris, Pfc. Leroy Harris-Kelly, Pfc. John D. Hart, Sgt. Nathaniel Hart, Sgt. 1st Class David A. Hartman, Sgt. Jonathan N. Hartman, Staff Sgt. Stephen C. Hattamer, Staff Sgt. Omer T. Hawkins II, Sgt. Timothy L. Hayslett, Chief Warrant Officer Brian D. Hazelgrove, Sgt. David M. Heath, Spc. Justin W. Hebert, Pfc. Damian L. Heidelberg, Pfc. Raheen Tyson Heighter, Spc. Jeremy M. Heines, Staff Sgt. Brian R. Hellerman, Staff Sgt. Terry W. Hemingway, Cpl. Matthew C. Henderson, 1st Lt. Robert L. Henderson II, Staff Sgt. Kenneth W. Hendrickson, Sgt. Jack T. Hennessy, Spc. Joshua J. Henry, Pfc. Clayton W. Henson, Spc. Armando Hernandez, Spc. Joseph F. Herndon II, Pfc. Edward J. Herrgott, Spc. Jacob B. Herring, Sgt. 1st Class Gregory B. Hicks, Spc. Christopher K. Hill, Spc. Stephen D. Hiller, Sgt. Keicia M. Hines, Pfc. Melissa J. Hobart, Sgt. Nicholas M. Hodson, Sgt. 1st Class James T. Hoffman, Spc. Christopher J. Holland, Staff Sgt. Aaron N. Holleyman, Staff Sgt. Lincoln D. Hollinsaid, Spc. James J. Holmes, Spc. Jeremiah J. Holmes, Cpl. Terry Holmes, Airman 1st Class Antoine J. Holt, Pfc. Sean Horn, Master Sgt. Kelly L. Hornbeck.
Staff Sgt. Jeremy R. Horton, Capt. Andrew R. Houghton, Lance Cpl Gregory C. Howman, Pfc. Bert E. Hoyer, Spc. Corey A. Hubbell, Pfc. Christopher E. Hudson, 1st Lt. Doyle M. Hufstedler, Staff Sgt. Jamie L. Huggins, Spc. Eric R. Hull, Cpl Barton R. Humlhanz, Lance Cpl. Justin T. Hunt, Spc. Simeon Hunte, 1st Lt. Joshua C. Hurley, Lance Cpl. James B. Huston Jr., Lance Cpl. Seth Huston, Pvt. Nolen R. Hutchings, Pfc. Ray J. Hutchinson, Pfc. Gregory P. Huxley Jr., Spc. Benjamin W. Isenberg, Spc. Craig S. Ivory, Pfc. Leslie D. Jackson, Spc. Morgen N. Jacobs, Chief Warrant Officer Scott Jamar, Cpl. Evan T. James, 2nd Lt. Luke S. James, Spc. William A. Jeffries, Petty Officer 2nd Class Robert B. Jenkins, Sgt. Troy David Jenkins, Spc. Darius T. Jennings, Pfc. Ryan M. Jerabek, Sgt. Linda C. Jimenez, 1st Lt. Oscar Jimenez, Capt. Christopher B. Johnson, Spc. David W. Johnson, Pfc. Howard Johnson II, Spc. John P. Johnson, Pfc. Markus J. Johnson, Spc. Maurice J. Johnson, Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class Michael Vann Johnson Jr., Spc. Nathaniel H. Johnson, Staff Sgt. Paul J. Johnson, Chief Warrant Officer, Pfc. Rayshawn S. Johnson, Pvt. Devon D. Jones, Capt. Gussie M. Jones, Staff Sgt. Raymond E. Jones Jr., Spc. Rodney A. Jones, Lt. Kylan A. Jones- Huffman, Sgt. Curt E. Jordan Jr., Sgt. Jason D. Jordan.
Staff Sgt. Phillip A. Jordan, Cpl. Forest J. Jostes, Spc. Spencer T. Karol, Spc. Michael G. Karr Jr., Spc. Mark J. Kasecky, 1st Lt. Jeffrey J. Kaylor, Spc. Chad L. Keith, Lance Cpl. Quinn A. Keith, Lance Cpl. Bryan P. Kelly, Cpl. Brian Kennedy, Chief Warrant Officer Kyran E. Kennedy, Staff Sgt. Morgan D. Kennon, 1st Lt. Christopher J. Kenny, Spc. Jonathan R. Kephart, Cpl. Dallas L. Kerns, Chief Warrant Officer Erik C. Kesterson, Capt. Humayun S. M. Khan, Spc. James M. Kiehl, Pt. Jeungjin Na Kim, Staff Sgt. Kevin C. Kimmerly. Spc. Levi B. Kinchen, Staff Sgt. Lester O. Kinney II, Pfc. David M. Kirchhoff, Staff Sgt. Charles A. Kiser, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Brian Kleiboeker, Spc. John K. Klinesmith Jr., Sgt. Floyd G. Knighten Jr., Petty Officer 3rd Class Eric L. Knott, Spc. Joshua L. Knowles, Staff Sgt. Lance J. Koenig, Cpl. Kevin T. Kolm, Pfc. Martin W. Kondor, Chief Warrant Patrick W. Kordsmeier, Capt. Edward J. Korn, Sgt. Bradley S. Korthaus, Cpl. Jakub Henryk Kowalik, Sgt. Elmer C. Krause, Pvt. Dustin L. Kreider, Pfc. Bradley G. Kritzer, Capt. John F. Kurth, Sgt. 1st Class William W. Labadie Jr., Sgt. Joshua S. Ladd, Sgt. Michael V. Lalush, Lance Cpl. Alan Dinh Lam, Spc. Charles R. Lamb, Spc. James I. Lambert III, Pfc. James P. Lambert, Sgt. Jonathan W. Lambert, Capt. Andrew David Lamont, Staff Sgt. Sean G. Landrus, Gunnery Sgt. Shawn A. Lane.
Pfc. Moises A. Langhorst, Spc. Tracy L. Laramore, Spc. Scott Q. Larson Jr., Chief Warrant Officer Matthew C. Laskowski, Staff Sgt. William T. Latham, Pfc. Karina S. Lau, Cpl. Jeffrey D. Lawrence, Staff Sgt. Mark A. Lawton, Lance Cpl. Travis J. Layfield, Staff Sgt. Rene Ledesma, 2nd Lt. Ryan Leduc, Cpl. Bum R. Lee, Pfc. Ken W. Leisten, Staff Sgt. Jerome Lemon, Spc. Cedric L. Lennon, Pfc. Farad K. Letufuga, Spc. Justin W. Linden, Spc. Roger G. Ling, Spc. Joseph L. Lister, Staff Sgt. Nino D. Livaudais, Sgt. Dale T. Lloyd, Sgt. Daniel J. Londono, Spc. Ryan P. Long, Spc. Zachariah W. Long, Pfc. Duane E. Longstreth, Sgt. Edgar E. Lopez, Lance Cpl. Juan Lopez, Sgt. Richard M. Lord, Staff Sgt. David L. Loyd, Capt. Robert L. Lucero, Pfc. Jason C. Ludiam, Lance Cpl. Jacob R. Lugo, Pfc. Jason N. Lynch, Pfc. Christopher D. Mabry, Lance Cpl. Gregory E. MacDonald, Lance Cpl. Cesar F. Machado-Olmos, Pfc. Vorn J. Mack, Lance Cpl. Joseph B. Maglione, Spc. William J. Maher III, Staff Sgt. Toby W. Mallet, Chief Warrant Officer Ian D. Manuel, Pfc. Pablo Manzano, Pfc. Lyndon A. Marcus Jr., Staff Sgt. Paul C. Mardis Jr., Cpl. Douglas Jose Marencoreyes, Master Sgt. Jude C. Mariano, Spc. James E. Marshall, Sgt. 1st Class John W. Marshall, Pfc. Ryan A. Martin, Staff Sgt. Stephen G. Martin.
Sgt. Francisco Martinez, Pfc. Francisco A. Martinez Flores, Pfc. Jesse J. Martinez, Spc. Michael A. Martinez, Pfc. Oscar A. Martinez, Spc. Jacob D. Martir, Sgt. Arthur S. Mastrapa, Chief Warrant Officer Johnny Villareal Mata, Lance Cpl. Ramon Mateo, Spc. Clint Richard Matthews, Lance Cpl. Ramon Mateo, Cpl. Matthew E. Matula, Staff Sgt. Donald C. May Jr, Pfc. Joseph P. Mayek, Spc. Patrick R. McCaffrey Sr., Lance Cpl. Joseph C. MacCarthy, Pfc. Ryan M. McCauley, Cpl. Brad P. McCormick, 1st Lt. Erik. S. McCrae, Spc. Donald R. McCune, Spc. Dustin K. McGaugh, Pfc. Holly J. McGeogh, Sgt. Brian D. McGinnis, Spc. Michael A. McGlothin. Petty Officer 2nd Class Scott R. McHugh, Hospitalman Joshua McIntosh, Spc. David M. McKeever, Spc. Eric S. McKinley, Pvt. Robert L. McKinley, Staff Sgt. Don S. McMahan, Sgt. Heath A. McMillin, 1st Lt. Brian M. McPhillips, Cpl. Jesus Martin Antonio Medellin, Spc. Irving Medina, Spc. Kenneth A. Melton, Cpl. Jaygee Meluat, Petty Officer 3rd Class Fernando A. Mendezaceves, Gunnery Sgt. Joseph Menusa, Staff Sgt. Eddie E. Menyweather, Spc. Gil Mercado, Spc. Michael M. Merila, Spc. Christopher A. Merville, Sgt. Daniel K. Methvin, Pfc. Jason M. Meyer, Sgt. Eliu A. Miersandoval, Spc. Michael G. Mihalakis, Pfc. Matthew G. Milczark, Cpl. Jason David Mileo, Pfc. Anthony S. Miller, Pfc. Bruce Miller Jr., Staff Sgt. Frederick L. Miller Jr.
Sgt. 1st Class Marvin L. Miller, Sgt. Joseph Minucci II, Sgt. First Class Troy L. Miranda, Spc. George A. Mitchell, Sgt. Keman L. Mitchell, Sgt. Michael W. Mitchell, Spc. Sean R. Mitchell, Pfc. Jesse D. Mizener, Staff Sgt. Jorge A. Molinabautista, Pfc. Anthony W. Monroe, 1st Lt. Adam G. Mooney, Lance Cpl. Jason William Moore, Pfc. Stuart W. Moore, Sgt. Travis A. Moothart, Spc. Jose L. Mora, Sgt. Melvin Y. Mora, Pfc. Michael A. Mora, Master Sgt. Kevin N. Morehead, Capt. Brent L. Morel, Petty Officer 3rd Class David J. Moreno, Sgt. Gerardo Moreno, Spc. Jaime Moreno, Pfc. Luis A. Moreno, Spc. Dennis B. Morgan, Staff Sgt. Richard L. Morgan Jr., Pfc. Geoffery S. Morris, Pfc. Ricky A. Morris Jr., Lance Cpl. Nicholas B. Morrison, Sgt. Shawna M. Morrison, Sgt. Keelan L. Moss, Spc. Clifford L. Moxley Jr., Sgt. Cory R. Mracek, Sgt. Rodney A. Murray, Sgt. Krisna Nachampassak, Spc. Paul T. Nakamura, Spc. Nathan W. Nakis, Pvt. Kenneth A. Nalley, Chief Warrant Officer Christopher G. Nason, Maj. Kevin G. Nave, Spc. Rafael L. Navea, Spc. Charles L. Neeley, Staff Sgt. Paul M. Neff II, Pfc. Gavin L. Neighbor, Spc. Joshua M. Neusche, Cpl. Dominique J. Nicolas, Lance Cpl. Joseph L. Nice, Spc. Isaac Michael Nieves, Lance Cpl. Patrick R. Nixon, Spc. Allen Nolan, Spc. Marcos O. Nolasco.
Sgt. William J. Normandy, Spc. Joseph C. Norquist, 1st Lt. Leif E. Nott, Staff Sgt. Todd E. Nunes, Spc. David T. Nutt, Cpl. Mick R. Nygardbekowsky, Spc. Donald S. Oak Jr., Pfc. Branden F. Oberleitner, Lance Cpl. Patrick T. O'Day, Spc. Charles E. Odums II, Spc. Ramon C. Ojeda, Cpl. Terry Holmes Ordonez, Cpl. Brian Oliveira, Spc. Justin B. Onwordi, Spc. Richard P. Orengo, Lt. Col. Kim S. Orlando, Lance Cpl. Eric J. Orlowski, 1st Lt. Osbaldo Orozco, Pfc. Cody J. Orr, Staff Sgt. Billy J. Orton, Sgt. Pamela G. Osbourne, Lance Cpl. Deshon E. Otey, Pfc. Kevin C. Ott, Sgt. Michael G. Owen, Lance Cpl. David Edward Owens Jr, Sgt. Fernando Padilla- Ramirez, Pvt. Shawn D. Pahnke, Spc. Gabriel T. Palacios, Capt. Eric T. Paliwoda, 1st Lt. Joshua M. Palmer, Staff Sgt. Dale A. Panchot, Pfc. Daniel R. Parker, Pfc. James D. Parker, Pfc. Kristen Parker, Cpl. Tommy L. Parker Jr., Sgt. Harvey E. Parkerson III, Sgt. David B. Parson, Staff Sgt. Esau G. Patterson Jr., Master Sgt. William L. Payne, Sgt. Michael F. Pedersen, Staff Sgt. Abraham D. Penamedina, Spc. Brian H. Penisten, Sgt. Ross A. Pennanen, Staff Sgt. Gregory V. Pennington, Pfc. Geoffrey Perez, Staff Sgt. Hector R. Perez, Sgt. Joel Perez, Spc. Jose A. Perez III, Pfc. Luis A. Perez, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Perez.
Spc. Wilfredo Perez Jr., Petty Officer 1st Class Michael J. Pernaselli, Staff Sgt. David S. Perry, Pfc. Charles C. Persing, Staff Sgt. Dustin W. Peters, Spc. Alyssa R. Peterson, Staff Sgt. Brett J. Petriken, Staff Sgt. James L. Pettaway Jr., Staff Sgt. Erickson H. Petty, Pfc. Jerrick M. Petty, Lt. Col. Mark P. Phelan, Pfc. Chance R. Phelps, Sgt. 1st Class Gladimir Philippe, Sgt. Ivory L. Phipps, Capt. Pierre E. Piche, Pfc. Lori Piestewa, Capt. Dennis L. Pintor, Spc. James H. Pirtle, Pfc. Jason T. Poindexter, 2nd Lt. Frederick E. Pokorney Jr., Staff Sgt. Andrew R. Pokorny, Spc. Justin W. Pollard, Spc. Larry E. Polley Jr., Sgt. Darrin K. Potter, Pfc. David L. Potter, Sgt. Christopher S. Potts, Spc. James E. Powell, Lance Cpl. Caleb J. Powers, Cpl. Dean P. Pratt, Pfc. James E. Prevete, Pvt. Kelley S. Prewitt, Sgt. Tyler D. Prewitt, Pfc. James W. Price, 1st Lt. Timothy E. Price, Lance Cpl. Mathew D. Puckett, Sgt. Jaror C. Puello- Coronado, Staff Sgt. Michael B. Quinn, Staff Sgt. Richard P. Ramey, Sgt. Christopher Ramirez, Spc. Eric U. Ramirez, Pfc. William C. Ramirez, Pfc. Christopher Ramos, Spc. Tamarra J. Ramos, Pfc. Brandon Ramsey, Pvt. Carson J. Ramsey, Sgt. Edmond L. Randle, Pfc. Cleston C. Raney, Capt. Gregory A. Ratzlaff, Spc. Rel A. Ravago IV, Spc. Omead H. Razani.
Spc. Brandon M. Read, Pfc. Christopher J. Reed, Pfc. Ryan E. Reed, Sgt. Tatjana Reed, Staff Sgt. Aaron T. Reese, Spc. Jeremy F. Regnier, Sgt. 1st Class Randall S. Rehn, Sgt. Brendon C. Reiss, Staff Sgt. George S. Rentschler, Sgt. Sean C. Reynolds, Lance Cpl. Rafael Reynosa- Suarez, Sgt. Yadir G. Reynoso, Cpl. Demetrius L. Rice, Sgt. Ariel Rico, Spc. Jeremy L. Ridlen, Pfc. Diego Fernando Rincon, Cpl. Steven A. Rintamaki, Sgt. Duane R. Rios, Capt. Russell B. Rippetoe, Pfc. Henry C. Risner, Sgt. 1st Class Jose A. Rivera, Cpl. John T. Rivero, Spc. Frank K. Rivers Jr., Sgt. Thomas D. Robbins, Sgt. Todd J. Robbins, Lance Cpl. Anthony P. Roberts, Lance Cpl. Bob W. Roberts, Spc. Robert D. Roberts, Staff Sgt. Joseph E. Robsky, Sgt. Moses D. Rocha, Pfc. Marlin T. Rockhold, Pfc. Jose Francis Gonzalez Rodriguez, Cpl. Robert M. Rodriguez, Spc. Philip G. Rogers, Sgt. 1st Class Robert E. Rooney, Cpl. Randal Kent Rosacker, Staff Sgt. Victor A. Rosales, Pfc. Richard H. Rosas, Sgt. Scott C. Rose, Sgt. Thomas C. Rosenbaum, Sgt. Randy S. Rosenberg, Spc. Marco D. Ross, Sgt. Lawrence A. Roukey, Capt. Alan Rowe, Spc. Brandon J. Rowe, Sgt. Roger D. Rowe, 2nd Lt. Jonathan D. Rozier, Spc. Isela Rubalcava, Pfc. Aaron J. Rusin, Sgt. John W. Russell.
1st Lt. Timothy Louis Ryan, Chief Warrant Officer Scott A. Saboe, Spc. Rasheed Sahib, Cpl. Rudy Salas, Cpl. William I. Salazar, 1st Lt. Edward M. Saltz, Capt. Benjamin W. Sammis, Spc. Sonny G. Sampler, Spc. Gregory P. Sanders, Pfc. Leroy Sandoval Jr., Spc. Matthew J. Sandri, Staff Sgt. Barry Sanford, 1st Lt. Neil Anthony Santoriello, Spc. Jonathan J. Santos, Pfc. Brandon R. Sapp, Staff Sgt. Cameron B. Sarno, Staff Sgt. Scott D. Sather, Lance Cpl. Jeremiah E. Savage, Capt. Robert C. Scheetz Jr., Spc. Justin B. Schmidt, Spc. Jeremiah W. Schmunk, Pfc. Sean M. Schneider, Cpl. Dustin H. Schrage, Maj. Mathew E. Schram, Lance Cpl. Brian K. Schramm, Spc. Christian C. Schulz, Master Sgt. David A. Scott, Pfc. Kerry D. Scott, Spc. Stephen M. Scott, Spc. Marc S. Seiden, Capt. Christopher Scott Seifert, Pfc. Dustin M. Sekula, Lance Cpl. Matthew K. Serio, Sgt. Juan M. Serrano, Staff Sgt. Wentz Jerome Henry Shanaberger III, Spc. Jeffrey R. Shaver, Maj. Kevin M. Shea, Spc. Casey Sheehan, Sgt. Kevin F. Sheehan, Sgt. Daniel Michael Shepherd, Sgt. Alan D. Sherman, Lt. Col. Anthony L. Sherman, Pfc. Harry N. Shondee Jr., Lance Cpl. Brad S. Shuder, Capt. James A. Shull, Pfc. Kenneth L. Sickels, Lance Cpl. Dustin L. Sides, Cpl. Erik H. Silva, Pvt. Sean A. Silva, Sgt. Leonard D. Simmons.
Pfc. Charles M. Sims, Lance Cpl. John T. Sims Jr., Spc. Uday Singh, Spc. Aaron J. Sissel, Pfc. Christopher A. Sisson, Pfc. Nicholas M. Skinner, Petty Officer 3rd Class David Sisung, 1st Lt. Brian D. Slavenas, Pvt. Brandon Ulysses Sloan, Lance Cpl. Richard P. Slocum, Lance Cpl. Thomas J. Slocum, Pfc. Corey L. Small, Sgt. Keith L. Smette, Capt. Benedict J. Smith, Sgt. Benjamin K. Smith, Pfc. Brandon C. Smith, 2nd Lt. Brian D. Smith, Chief Warrant Officer Bruce A. Smith, Cpl. Darrell L. Smith, 1st Sgt. Edward Smith, Chief Warrant Officer Eric A. Smith, Pfc. Jeremiah D. Smith, Lance Cpl. Matthew R. Smith, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Smith Jr., Spc. Orenthial J. Smith, Sgt. 1st Class Paul R. Smith, Capt. Christopher F. Soelzer, Sgt. Roderic A. Solomon, Cpl. Adrian V. Soltau, Maj. Charles R. Soltes Jr., Sgt. Skipper Soram, Pfc. Armando Soriano, Cpl. Tomas Sotelo Jr., Pfc. Kenneth C. Souslin, Spc. Philip I. Spakosky, Pfc. Jason L. Sparks, Cpl. Michael R. Speer, Staff Sgt. Trevor Spink, Maj. Christopher J. Splinter, Sgt. Marvin R. Sprayberry III, Pvt. Bryan N. Spry, Sgt. Maj. Michael B. Stack, Pfc. Nathan E. Stahl, 1st Lt. Andrew K. Stern, Staff Sgt. Robert A. Stever, Maj. Gregory Stone, 2nd Lt. Matthew R. Stovall, Pfc. William R. Strange, Sgt. Kirk Allen Straseskie, Pfc. Brandon C. Sturdy.
Spc. William R. Sturges Jr., Spc. Paul J. Sturino, Lance Cpl. Jesus A. Suarez Del Solar, Spc. Joseph D. Suell, Spc. John R. Sullivan, Spc. Narson B. Sullivan, Lance Cpl. Vincent M. Sullivan, Staff Sgt. Michael J. Sutter, Pfc. Ernest Harold Sutphin, Chief Warrant Officer Sharon T. Swartworth, Spc. Thomas J. Sweet II, Staff Sgt. Christopher W. Swisher, Maj. Paul R. Syverson III, Sgt. Patrick S. Tainsh, Sgt. DeForest L. Talbert, Sgt. 1st Class Linda Ann Tarango-Griess, Spc. Christopher M. Taylor, Maj. Mark D. Taylor, Capt. John R. Teal, Staff Sgt. Riayan A. Tejeda, Lance Cpl. Jason Andrew Tetrault, Spc. Joseph C. Thibodeaux, Master Sgt. Thomas R. Thigpen Sr., Cpl. Jesse L. Thiry, Sgt. Carl Thomas, Staff Sgt. Kendall Thomas, Spc. Kyle G. Thomas, Sgt. Anthony O. Thompson, Spc. Jarrett B. Thompson, Sgt. Humberto F. Timoteo, Capt. John E. Tipton, Pfc. Joshua K. Titcomb, Spc. Brandon T. Titus, Spc. Brandon S. Tobler, Sgt. Lee D. TodacheeneCpl. John H. Todd III, Sgt. Nicholas A. Tomko, Master Sgt. Timothy Toney, Pfc. George D. Torres, Lance Cpl. Michael S. Torres, 2nd Lt. Richard Torres, Spc. Ramon Reyes Torres, Lance Cpl. Elias Torrez III, Sgt. Michael L. Tosto, Spc. Richard K. Trevithick, Pfc. Andrew L. Tuazon, Staff Sgt. Roger C. Turner Jr., Pvt. Scott M. Tyrrell, 2nd Lt. Andre D. Tyson, Spc. Eugene A. Uhl III, Lance Cpl. Drew M. Uhles.
Rick A. Ulbright, Pfc. Daniel P. Unger, Spc. Robert Oliver Unruh, 1st Sgt. Ernest E. Utt, Sgt. Michael A. Uvanni, Staff Sgt. Gary A. Vaillant, Lance Cpl. Ruben Valdez Jr., Sgt. Melissa Valles, Spc. Allen J. Vandayburg, Spc. Josiah H. Vandertulip, Chief Warrant Officer Brian K. Van Dusen, Lance Cpl. John J. Vangyzen IV, Lance Cpl. Gary F. Van Leuven, Staff Sgt. Mark D. Vasquez, Spc. Frances M. Vega, 1st Lt. Michael W. Vega, Staff Sgt. Paul A. Velazquez, Cpl. David M. Vicente, Sgt. 1st Class Joselito O. Villanueva, Cpl. Scott M. Vincent, Staff Sgt. Kimberly A. Voelz, Staff Sgt. Michael S. Voss, Spc. Thai Vue, Lance Cpl. Michael B. Wafford, Sgt. Christopher A. Wagener, Sgt. Gregory L. Wahl, Staff Sgt. Allan K. Walker, Sgt. Jeffery C. Walker, Sgt. Donald Ralph Walters, Pvt. Jason M. Ward, Pfc. Nachez Washalanta, Lance Cpl. Christopher B. Wasser, Pvt. David L. Waters, Staff Sgt. Kendall Damon Waters-Bey, Maj. William R. Watkins III, Petty Officer 2nd Class Christopher E. Watts, Chief Warrant Officer Aaron A. Weaver, Spc. Michael S. Weger, Staff Sgt. David J. Weisenburg, Spc. Douglas J. Weismantle, Pfc. Michael Russell Creighton Weldon, Lance Cpl. Larry L. Wells, Chief Warrant Officer Stephen M. Wells, Spc. Jeffrey M. Wershow, Spc. Christopher J. Rivera Wesley, Sgt. James G. West, 1st Lt. Alexander E. Wetherbee, Spc. Donald L. Wheeler, Sgt. Mason Douglas Whetstone, Pfc. Marquis A. Whitaker.
Staff Sgt. Aaron Dean White, Lt. Nathan D. White, Sgt. Steven W. White, Lance Cpl. William W. White, Pfc. Joey D. Whitener, Spc. Chase R. Whitman, Spc. Michael J. Wiesemann, Cpl. Joshua S. Wilfong, Sgt. Eugene Williams, Lance Cpl. Michael J. Williams, Spc. Michael L. Williams, Sgt. Taft V. Williams, 1st Lt. Charles L. Wilkins III, Sgt. 1st Class Christopher R. Willoughby, Spc. Dana N. Wilson, Command Sgt. Maj. Jerry L. Wilson, Staff Sgt. Joe N. Wilson, Lance Cpl. Lamont N. Wilson, Lance Cpl. Nicholas Wilt, 1st Lt. Ronald Winchester, Spc. Trevor A. Wine, Lance Cpl. William J. Wiscowiche, Spc. Robert A. Wise, Spc. Michelle M. Witmer, Pfc. Owen D. Witt, Spc. James R. Wolf, 2nd Lt. Jeremy L. Wolfe, Sgt. Elijah Tai Wah Wong, Sgt. Brian M. Wood, Capt. George A. Wood, Spc. Michael R. Woodliff, Spc. James C. Wright, Pfc. Jason G. Wright, 2nd Lt. John T. Wroblewski, Lance Cpl. Daniel R. Wyatt, Pfc. Stephen E. Wyatt, Sgt. Michael E. Yashinski, Sgt. Henry Ybarra III, Pfc. Rodricka A. Youmans, Sgt. Ryan C. Young, Lance Cpl. Andrew J. Zabierek, Spc. Nicholas J. Zangara, Spc. Mark Anthony Zapata, Pfc. Nicholaus E. Zimmer, Cpl. Ian T. Zook, Lance Cpl. Robert P. Zurheide Jr.
May they rest in peace.
And may they forgive us someday.
-- Michael Moore
Don't think for one moment that Jabba the Movie Maker gives a flying fuck about the brave men and women that have given their lives in the liberation of Iraq. He would have been disguted with 70% percent of them since they would have most likely voted for the President. The other 30% he would have tolerated as useful idiots. I mean, they did join the military......... 
Yes they did and so did I. And NONE of the people I work with in Homeland Security, respect anything that fat pig has to say. This includes [in my office] US Navy, US Coast Guard, US Air Force, US Army, CIA, FBI, NSA, and EPIC.
How dare YOU michael fucking moore use their names in such a manner. Shame on you. 
I love his twistin of the facts to suit his agenda though...really top notch!! He shoulda been doing the propaganda for the Nazis!! 
Moore's film would have made Goebels proud. Show the enemy, slow the frame rate, add creepy music. Triumph of the Metrosexual.
I like Corporatemofo's analysis of the election...
by Ken Mondschein
Unlike most of my Kerry-supporting friends, I refused to have faith in a Democratic victory. I can remember the exact moment I lost my religion, too: Watching the second debate, the so-called "town-hall meeting," where the two candidates stalked one another in the ring like a couple of gladiators before a national TV audience. It was all I could do to keep from screaming: While all Kerry could do was impotently point and accuse like Banquo's (or Dukakis') ghost-being careful never to descend to Howard Dean-like shrillness-Bush seemed smugly confident, sure of himself, a warrior-king addressing his armies.
The next day, all any of my liberal New York activist colleagues could talk about was what a swaggering, arrogant, macho prick Bush came off as. After all, in our circles, men who don't exhibit empathy and interpersonal communication skills aren't very well thought of (though they do seem to get laid at about the same rate as the rest of us). However, what most of us artsy middle-class professional PoMo bohemian/yuppie types, with our highlighted hair and carefully-chosen thrift-store ensembles, failed to realize is that Bush's base of support goes beyond the "I got mine" conservatives with their SUVs and $400,000 tract homes that they can't afford to furnish, the gun nuts with their AR-15s, and the Christian theocrats with their red-letter Bibles open to Genesis 19. Bush couldn't have won as big as he did without the support of ordinary people who work in offices in fear of their bosses and their mortgages and getting laid off.
Guys who crank up Metallica in their cars and pound the steering wheel to "Master of Puppets," even though the last time they actually went to a concert was in high school ten years ago, because they're stuck in traffic and pissed off and there's nothing else they can do except go slowly mad.
Men who proudly describe themselves as "rednecks" with bumper stickers and lawn ornaments because they long for an ethnic identity more substantial than "one eighth Scottish, one eighth Irish, a quarter Polish, half German, and a little Cherokee," and, being deeply suspicious of "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy," want to be able to wear plaid flannel shirts around the house on weekends.
Fathers who aren't sure they like the domesticated life, but are too in terror of family-court judges to walk out on the wife and baby, and whose fears of not measuring up to being a provider like Dad was (never mind falling real wages) are only worsened by gay marriage and metrosexual New Yorkers with hair highlighting.
Say what you like-that at least Bush finally got elected, that the Red Sox swept the World Series because Kerry had to borrow the curse, that America deserves what it gets-but, in my humble opinion, this perceived American crisis of masculinity is the real cause of what happened November 2. Like watching action movies or professional sports, participating in the Bush victory was a psychic restorative, giving back some semblance of a sense of manly honor that has been stolen away by time clocks, Dr. Phil, and Zoloft. Bush's message speaks directly to the heart of the emasculated modern man: stick with me, and we'll stand tall, provide for our families, and kick terrorist ass.
And Kerry? No way he'd use anything like Karl Rove's boys' club gender politics. Hell, his campaign manager was even a woman.
The problem with the Democratic party isn't that it didn't address the issues-as the New York Times will tell you, it sure as hell did a better job of that than Bush-but that it's not addressing our society on a larger scale. We are a nation of feelers, not thinkers, and being sure our sense of gender is central to our sense of security, homeland or otherwise-which is no doubt why ten of eleven states passed anti-gay-marriage referendums.
(And as for the women who voted for Bush-hell, someone's got to marry those arrogant, smug, sexy assholes. Nothing like your own Dubbya between the sheets, especially if he's an old-fashioned type who will be a husband and provider.)
One thing's for sure: If the Left wants to get back on its feet, it had better grow a pair-or at least start acting like it has.
We're not a land of thinkers, we're a land of feelers... well, if this is the true actual America, I would be very worried about the future. America is enjoying the fruits of 200 years of sustained development and investment in the right things, based in democratic values. This is not feeling, this is thinking.
Originally posted by Michael McDermott Don't think for one moment that Jabba the Movie Maker gives a flying fuck about the brave men and women that have given their lives in the liberation of Iraq. He would have been disguted with 70% percent of them since they would have most likely voted for the President. The other 30% he would have tolerated as useful idiots. I mean, they did join the military.........
You meant invasion or Iraq, right? ;)
Usually, a revolution is done by its own people when they want to get rid of the current government...
How dareth thou defend that moronic ass Spotty!!!
He touts out troops names in vain and people defend him and it makes me sick to my stomach.
He's the worse kind of American...an ultra liberal, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay left wing nut job!!! But, we must put up with his fat ass and his leftist, anti-founding father views. He doesn't want America: Home of the Free and Brave, he wants America: Soft, Sensitive Hoars.
No thanks...
Gotta love all the fat jokes, instead of actually dismanteling Moore's statistics and arguements.
Originally posted by Aleph Gotta love all the fat jokes, instead of actually dismanteling Moore's statistics and arguements.
Fat jokes? Are you reading a hidden post or something? (But he IS disgustingly fat, isn't he!?)
OK then....
6. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting age. We only lost by three and a half million!
A--hem!! It seems he didn't wait for a mojority of the outstanding baloots to come in, did he? Let's see, I think as of this morning he was off by about 4 million. Oh yeah...he's credible.
12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.
OK, I'll give him that one. Dammit!!
I am tired of Moore, so whenever I hear his name I directly go to an insult (just like you would to Ann Coulter). The list of names is a very effective gaudy tactic by him to make everyone have utter disgust for Bush, and his list of reasons of why to be happy are ridiculous. The Democrats did worse than they did four years ago (which is hard to believe since Gore ran a glaringly atrocious campaign of deep throating and ignoring the South). Moore probably did help to incite more people to vote for Kerry, but there is an equal amount of people who detest Moore and his lying mockumentaries that probably went to the polls to guve Bush the most votes in American history.
2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
This only refers to the Electoral votes...a silly concept that may have made senes before we were all thought of, but scary one today. Oh...and once again, that (insert fat joke here) spoke too soon, before al votes were in. Sorry bubba...but not even close to a Narrow margin.
The rest are merely stupid pot-shots and are not worthy of any more attention. OK? Good.
. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't have to buy now.
Doesn't have that much to do with the pres elections as the states decide on this. Is it right? I dunno. Maybe it is a step in the wrong direction but the people in those states apparently have spoken. That called democracy, if ya don't like being on the losing end, then please do us a favor and go away Mr. (insert fat joke here)!! Take the ALCU with you...I'm tired of them trying to shred the Constitution.
Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS Yes they did and so did I. And NONE of the people I work with in Homeland Security, respect anything that fat pig has to say. This includes [in my office] US Navy, US Coast Guard, US Air Force, US Army, CIA, FBI, NSA, and EPIC.How dare YOU michael fucking moore use their names in such a manner. Shame on you.
Chunks -- I respect the fact that you're a fan of New Order, The Cure and Depeche Mode -- but I don't respect the fact that you keep doing "name dropping" by saying you work for the military all the time, give it a rest already! Just the fact that you are allowed to bear a gun and obey orders doesn't make you The Guardian of The Truth for christ's sake!
And by the way, you don't have to say all the time that 70% of the military were Pro-Bush or Pro-Republicans because that was obvious from the start and it's always been this way because most people who do a military career are very rigid people who like authority, discipline and who have right-wing ideologies.
When was the last time you've seen a left wing milicia?
You are bashing Michael Moore, but for what? Because he dares wishing a better life for the common people? 
As much as I like ann Coulter, she is a corporate tart who talks loudly to sell herself. Michael Moore is an exponential version of Ann (in more ways than one). He is out to sell himself to fund his food bill; much like Robert Smith releasing music to fund his makeup bill. 
Oh yeah, post scriptum Andrade:
As a member of Homeland Security, if I were American, I would certainly file a complaint against you because you are probably one of the most frequent posters on this message board -- as a matter of fact, sometimes I feel you are online all the time, and that means you are doing this from your job instead of watching after the safety of America!!!!
HOW DARE YOU ???
...using governemental computers to write political right wing propaganda, even though the military should be apolitical and neutral.
HOW DARE YOU ???
Talking gibberish and considering only one side of the story -- how come you bash Moore for using the names of those who are dead, but you don't say a word about the members of the military who are still ALIVE and who participated in Farenheint 9/11, in which they have been burning in flames your president and his decisions???
HOW DARE YOU ???
One last thing: get out of your shell and start to realize that what you label a "ultra liberal shit" is what 70% of the Canadians are, 70% of the French and British, and, as a matter of fact, most Europeans, who have greater social values than you will ever have.
Originally posted by Beach Buggy Oh yeah, post scriptum Andrade: As a member of Homeland Security, if I were American, I would certainly file a complaint against you because you are probably one of the most frequent posters on this message board -- as a matter of fact, sometimes I feel you are online all the time, and that means you are doing this from your job instead of watching after the safety of America!!!! HOW DARE YOU ???
Hmmm I receive money from the state of California in order to pay for my university fees, and the state is dominated by Democrats. Should my money be withheld because I come onto NOOL to rip on the Dems.? Seb what you said was bullshit .
Most of Europe was recently moving to the right (even though the most recent French election gave a big blow to Le Pen's rightist youth movement). The youth of Europe are moving to the right. Canada? not enough power for anyone to give a fuck! Canada is dependent on the United States, so it will never act against the US. Even if 99% were leftist, it wouldn't matter!
Originally posted by Señor Espilbergo > Most of Europe was recently moving to the right Where???
Austria, the Le Pen movement the past years, Berlusconi is actually in office. But, in Spain they suffered a big defeat. I'm not saying that Europe is rightist, but in a few years there is a good chance it could become moderate or rightist. Hey maybe the conservatives can knock off Blair.
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Beach Buggy> Oh yeah, post scriptum Andrade: As a member of Homeland Security, if I were American, I would certainly file a complaint against you because you are probably one of the most frequent posters on this message board -- as a matter of fact, sometimes I feel you are online all the time, and that means you are doing this from your job instead of watching after the safety of America!!!! HOW DARE YOU ???
Hmmm I receive money from the state of California in order to pay for my university fees, and the state is dominated by Democrats. Should my money be withheld because I come onto NOOL to rip on the Dems.? Seb what you said was bullshit .
Most of Europe was recently moving to the right (even though the most recent French election gave a big blow to Le Pen's rightist youth movement). The youth of Europe are moving to the right. Canada? not enough power for anyone to give a fuck! Canada is dependent on the United States, so it will never act against the US. Even if 99% were leftist, it wouldn't matter!
Well, watch more closely because we will refuse to participate in your president's demonic anti-missile project!
By the way, are you sure your parents and ancestors are FRENCH ? 
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Señor Espilbergo> > > > Most of Europe was recently moving to the right> > Where???
Austria, the Le Pen movement the past years, Berlusconi is actually in office. But, in Spain they suffered a big defeat. I'm not saying that Europe is rightist, but in a few years there is a good chance it could become moderate or rightist. Hey maybe the conservatives can knock off Blair.
Check your numbers... Le Pen probably got less votes than Ralf Nader.....
Moving to the right? Europe? Swings and roundabouts young tristan. Six years ago, we were all moving to the left with Jospin, Schroder and Blair (when he was centre left) all in power.
Chirac is only president of france because the Socialists in france couldnt get their act together, thus splitting the vote ahnd letting le Pen in. And spain recently elected in a Socialist government. The right wing if Europe is marginal, sure we have centre right but bona fide right wingers in mainstream politics are generally hard to come across, although Berlusconi deviates from this.
My mother is French (she doesn't lean right or left; she just believes American politicians are idiots), my sister is a strong liberal, my younger brother wanted Kerry to win but he's not well versed in politics. My father is Afghan (and has a bit of Saudi in him), and he didn't care too much either way.
I'm a mutt born in Saint Etienne :p, and now I'm American.
Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS How dareth thou defend that moronic ass Spotty!!! He touts out troops names in vain and people defend him and it makes me sick to my stomach.
I might have missed a point there Chunks... I expressed my own opinion. Remember, Canada was against the war in Iraq the way it was one...
I wasn't defending anyone...
Originally posted by Spotnick > Originally posted by Tristan> > > > > > > Originally posted by Señor Espilbergo> > > > > > > Most of Europe was recently moving to the right> > > > Where???>
Austria, the Le Pen movement the past years, Berlusconi is actually in office. But, in Spain they suffered a big defeat. I'm not saying that Europe is rightist, but in a few years there is a good chance it could become moderate or rightist. Hey maybe the conservatives can knock off Blair.
Check your numbers... Le Pen probably got less votes than Ralf Nader.....
In a previous post I recognized that in the most recent election Le Pen suffered a big blow, but the rightist (I don't like it very much since it tends to be very racist [neo-nazi's desecrating Jewish graveyards]) movement is still active.
Originally posted by Uncle Liam Moving to the right? Europe? Swings and roundabouts young tristan. Six years ago, we were all moving to the left with Jospin, Schroder and Blair (when he was centre left) all in power. Chirac is only president of france because the Socialists in france couldnt get their act together, thus splitting the vote ahnd letting le Pen in. And spain recently elected in a Socialist government. The right wing if Europe is marginal, sure we have centre right but bona fide right wingers in mainstream politics are generally hard to come across, although Berlusconi deviates from this.
I recognized the left's win in Spain. What I wanted to say is that Europe seems to be more to the right than it was during the mid 90's
It probably is, but its only a matter of time before the left dominates again. The Christian Democrats will win in germany next time, Italy is hard to call but i wouldnt be surprised if berlusconi was kicked out, Chirac has to step down at the end of this term, and the Socialists should gain control of the presidency and the parliament. In England, when Blair goes, the left, under Brown, will reclaim Labour and take it more centre left.
I dont think Europe will ever be dominated by Far Right and Far Left parties. That time has passed, but neither will right or left indivdually dominate. In fact, the next four years could well be dominated by the parties who are most anti-Bush.
Originally posted by Uncle Liam It probably is, but its only a matter of time before the left dominates again. The Christian Democrats will win in germany next time, Italy is hard to call but i wouldnt be surprised if berlusconi was kicked out, Chirac has to step down at the end of this term, and the Socialists should gain control of the presidency and the parliament. In England, when Blair goes, the left, under Brown, will reclaim Labour and take it more centre left. I dont think Europe will ever be dominated by Far Right and Far Left parties. That time has passed, but neither will right or left indivdually dominate. In fact, the next four years could well be dominated by the parties who are most anti-Bush.
Berlusconi has good media control in Italy and his position at the helm of the EU (if he doesn't fuck up!) will help him, so I expect him back. In England, I think if Labour fumbles greatly I would expect the conservatives to pick up the scraps rather than the leftists. And as for Germany, I don't have a clue about its politics, but I know I have some cousins living near Hamburg. The next four years Bush will be concerned with his legacy (as Clinton was) rather than stirring up the country to get as much rightist policy through; also many of the behind the scenes people in the administration are prepping to stand down. The next four years should be Bush stabilizing Iraq, hopefully the creation of a fair Palestinian state, and anti-proliferation treaties with Iran and North Korea (even though the Bush administration has favored taking hardball positions against these remaining members of the 'Axis of Evil'. I don't think Europe will be ridden with Anti-Bush movements any more than it already has been.
Now, now, gentlemen...we should forget the divisivness of the recent year and unite in our goal to stop a mutual enemy of everything that we as Americans believe in. This man has done more to harm our very way of life over the past four years and we need to send him a message to "not mess with America":
Well if they could work with Nader and infuse some of his ideas, maybe the Democrats would do better. The Dem.s are a loose collection of minorities with no unified message. Even if it is an LBJ position the Dem.s take in the next four years, hell it'll be better than a campaign run on Kerry flips flops, and anyone but Bush! Spineless, ignorant Democrats rise up and take over!
Originally posted by Tristan Well if they could work with Nader and infuse some of his ideas, maybe the Democrats would do better. The Dem.s are a loose collection of minorities with no unified message. Even if it is an LBJ position the Dem.s take in the next four years, hell it'll be better than a campaign run on Kerry flips flops, and anyone but Bush! Spineless, ignorant Democrats rise up and take over!
Okay, sit down and take a deep breath, make sure there aren't any sharp objects which you could fall back on, and that your mouth isn't full of any kind of soda or coffee, beacuse.........I agree with you!
Yes, that's exactly right, now that we're 48 hours removed from the whole debacle (well, 72, but math was never my strong suit) I can say that the Dems were helpless against the unified front of Evangelical screwballs and right-wing shitkickers. Oh, and country music fans should never have the right to vote again. You stole the music from your slaves, and you gave the world Conway Twitty. You don't deserve it. 
The Dems will have to man up, get something going in the next couple of years, which is why I'm looking towards Barack Obama (not for '08 or even '12, but possibly '16). He'll be a symbol for the New Democrats, the New Liberals (much as the neocons rallied around Granny Reagan). I look to him to be the standard-bearer for it all, whatever that message is when we find it. John Kerry, though a war hero, was outgunned by Karl Rove. I think we (meaning the Dems on the board) should take a page from Rove's playbook and start intimdating voters (substituting our targets, Nascar Dads and Christian Evangelicals, for theirs of black people and young people).
Will we have to play dirty? Yes. Will we have to compromise our integrity? Yes. Will we have to be harder-edged than all the O'Hannitys of the world? Hell yes.
That's it, America: you picked the wrong party to fuck with. You wanted four more years of Bush? Congratulations, and maybe we'll spare you when you come crying back for mercy
Okay, maybe we won't be that off-kilter, but we do need to remember our roots and remind the working man that a vote for Republicans is a vote for their boss, not them.
If the Democrats want the White House then they need to stop being the party of Freaks--welfare moms, gehtto people, gays and those that want to live off the State. Its not that 59 million right wing Christian wackos voted for Bush, it's the fact that the Party got its ass kicked everywhere but Hawaii and Chicago. Afrika Bambatta or who ever from Illinois that beat carpetbagger Alan Keyes is not the answer. The Demos need a more moderate message and commitment.
59 million Americans are not right wing gun nuts that want abortion banned and school prayer. They are people that would rather stick with the status quo risk 4 years of an extreme liberal that cannot take a position without flip flopping, someone that although a war hero became a traitor then denied it and fought to suppress the opinion and voice of those that said he was a traitor, a Senator who's voting record completely denies his campaign promises. Yes, Clinton is more trustworthy in a motel full of fat horney interns than Kerry is at his word.
Until the inner city population out numbers the rest of the nation big liberals will never win. Americans not living in NYC, Chicago et al want less government, want to keep the money they earn (lower taxes) want to keep their guns (most gun crimes committed by those that own them illegally or would have voted for Democratic), do not believe gays should be allowed to marry and believe that Welfare has failed.
Sure Bush got us in this damn war but 59 million Americans did not think that the anti-Defense and anti-CIA Kerry would be better to end this mess. Sure the Recession that cursed the Nation early in Bush's watch hurt but America rejected the Democratic solution.
Americans want less government, want to keep their money, and want a strong defense.
Good input by Taboo and twist. 
What I wonder is: is there place in the United States for a moderate, efficient and pragmatic left wing party?
Should the electoral system be reformed in order to test proportional representation, where parties like the Green Party and the Libertarian Party could get representants and senators in Washington ?
Don't you also think that the federal elections should be held by the federal government, by the same rules in every state?
Finally, don't you think it would be better if the President was elected directly by the people, and not by an electoral college?
Wouldn't the democracy in the United States be far better off this way? 
Americans want less government
"laissez faire". This is another ideal inherited from the French Revolution.
I thought "welfare State", "affirmative actions" and "class actions" where tributed to the Americans.
So, in your view point, America would be better as a "liberal state"?
I always thought that the transition to a "welfare state" was a necessity of the stage of the human relationship in THIS moment, and not an ideological position of the Constitution or whatever.
I can't agree on this. Governament must interfere in economics. Governament must give ways to a material equality, not only formal.
"affirmative actions" and "class actions" are ways of doing that.
Twist, don't underestimate Obama, he's a great personality with a very appealing family story (yes, yes this oozes of John Edwards), but I believe he would make a great part of any administration or campaign. The Dem.s are a collection of factions, and this collection needs to come out with a unified message other than anyone but Bush. The Dem.s need to go and captivate the South, the real South and not just send 200,000 people to the major metropolitan areas of Florida. The Democratic message of helping the poor screams religion to me, and yet Dem.s fail at this. The Dem.s need a successful governor, rather than a senator who the Republicans can paint as a liberal (when he, other than his last year of voting, is a moderate). The only way a third party can exist is if there exists extreme disillusion of one party in order to open the door to another one. If the Libertarians can be funded by some billionaire, I bet they can steal many Republican votes in 4 years; same thing with any Green or Populist. Money and the opportunity of bashing one party can let a third party gain temporary success.
Originally posted by Beach Buggy Good input by Taboo and twist.
I Agree, i found it farcicial that both Kerry and Dubya claimed that America is the greatest democracy in the world. So great in fact, that the people dont directly elect the president!
The problem is, that the electoral college system, like any other non pluralistic system, favours the incumbent, so its unlikely that PR will be adopted.
The system is flawed, but it only failed once, and that was four years ago. The reason why it will stay is because it helps the two parties focus on certain states, and the two parties believe they run beter campaigns this way by focusing on key battleground areas.
Originally posted by Beach Buggy Oh yeah, post scriptum Andrade:As a member of Homeland Security, if I were American, I would certainly file a complaint against you because you are probably one of the most frequent posters on this message board -- as a matter of fact, sometimes I feel you are online all the time, and that means you are doing this from your job instead of watching after the safety of America!!!!HOW DARE YOU ???
Take a breath...feel better? Good, now go get a massage, or a BJ or something and wind down big guy...you are too uptight. Not good for the soul. You'll end up like M. Moore. 
You do not know my social values, other than who I voted for so please do not claim to. They are not public properties like politicians.
No where in our charter does is state that the military has to be apolitical or nuetral big buy. We in the military, are encouraged above all to be political and question our leaders if it is truely necessary. As a leader, I encourage MY people the same. Whatever thier leanings. If you are offended by any of this Seb, then you don't have to read it. It is your right. As it is my right to to bash the "ultra liberal shit" as you quoted me of saying.
Don't question the manner in which I perform my duty either please. That is truely uncalled for and rude. You HAVE NO CLUE what my job is, how to do it and what is consists of. And I haven't told you...but if that made you feel better than OK. And my schedule allows me plenty of time inbetween my days or nights at work, so you attempting to bash on computer habits is rather pointless. In two days, work more hours than most do in week...so I do get plenty of time OFF to play on the computer. Satisfied?
And honestly...if you are that offended by my posts here and can't take them for what they are, Free Debate - One of the greatest rights we ALL have here, then feel free to send me an email Seb and inform me of you opinions on the matter.
OK then. Have a nice day.
Oh yeah..post scriptum: I DO know BOTH sides of the "Story" as you call it. I do not form opinions on any matter unless I have considered both sides of something first. This goes for anything, up to and including politics. If I don't know both sides of a story or subject, then I generally kep my mouth shut or ask questions. So please don't presume to think that I haven't educated myself on both sides of the issues here in past couple years. It makes you look angry...and you'll get nasty wrinkles on you face adnd look old prematurely!
Originally posted by Señor Espilbergo > Americans want less government"laissez faire". This is another ideal inherited from the French Revolution.I thought "welfare State", "affirmative actions" and "class actions" where tributed to the Americans.So, in your view point, America would be better as a "liberal state"?I always thought that the transition to a "welfare state" was a necessity of the stage of the human relationship in THIS moment, and not an ideological position of the Constitution or whatever.I can't agree on this. Governament must interfere in economics. Governament must give ways to a material equality, not only formal."affirmative actions" and "class actions" are ways of doing that.
Señor Espilbergo, are you sitting right on the peak of Mount Matchu Pitchu, because that was a great message!
Originally posted by Tristan The Dem.s need to go and captivate the South, the real South and not just send 200,000 people to the major metropolitan areas of Florida.
How about sending the real south to Iraq ? 
:p
Originally posted by Taboo # 7 Now, now, gentlemen...we should forget the divisivness of the recent year and unite in our goal to stop a mutual enemy of everything that we as Americans believe in. This man has done more to harm our very way of life over the past four years and we need to send him a message to "not mess with America":
Maybe...but because of this "Evil" man in fact, power windows on cars these days are less likely to kill a child. Note: I did say "Less" likely. But it was Nader who championed making these windows safer than they were in the 80's.
Here are the strong points of the Democrats...
- pro choice
- no religion down our throats (Christian Socialism)
- emphasis on education
- less corporate welfare
weak points
- entitlements
- political correctness
- gays
- protectionism (tariffs ect)
- anti-Christianism
- gun control
As for the Electoral College, keep it as it prevents NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston and large cities from controling the entire nation. I am sure that my interests in a small agricultarl State differ from my relatives in Manhattan. One forgets that the Founding Fathers only allowed land owning men to vote. Senaotrs were originally appointed by State Governors rather than elected by the people. While the franchise has been expanded, and rightly so, the current system protects us from ourselves even if a moron like Bush wins both the popular and the electoral. And finally, the system of government was set up to be slow. Let the people make the decisions through the States rather than relying on the Feds. Not always the best giving slavery ect but today better than ever.
Originally posted by twist Here are the strong points of the Democrats...1. pro choice2. no religion down our throats (Christian Socialism)3. emphasis on education4. less corporate welfareweak points1. entitlements2. political correctness3. gays4. protectionism (tariffs ect)5. anti-Christianism6. gun controlAs for the Electoral College, keep it as it prevents NYC, LA, Chicago, Boston and large cities from controling the entire nation. I am sure that my interests in a small agricultarl State differ from my relatives in Manhattan. One forgets that the Founding Fathers only allowed land owning men to vote. Senaotrs were originally appointed by State Governors rather than elected by the people. While the franchise has been expanded, and rightly so, the current system protects us from ourselves even if a moron like Bush wins both the popular and the electoral. And finally, the system of government was set up to be slow. Let the people make the decisions through the States rather than relying on the Feds. Not always the best giving slavery ect but today better than ever.
This is intersting. Could you elaborate on the weak points a bit? Why are some those "Weak points"
There is a place for the electoral college, but at times I think italmost works against the majority...the people. And why in the HELL does California get 55 damn votes!!?? I'm a Californian, but I don't believe we are that high on the food chain. 
In the presidential election, a winner take all election, what is wrong with a simple majority i.e. who wins the popular vote wins the election? This election was the highest turnout in years, but how high would turnout be if people believed that there vote would actually count for something?
Cali gets so many votes because we have so many damn ppl, if anything places like DC, Wyoming, Delaware, and other sparsely populate states are overrepresented. I wish the electoral system would be abolished because California, New York, Illinois, and Texas need to be involved more. Why you ask? Because we have the fucking people (and they keep right on fucking!).
Originally posted by Uncle Liam In the presidential election, a winner take all election, what is wrong with a simple majority i.e. who wins the popular vote wins the election? This election was the highest turnout in years, but how high would turnout be if people believed that there vote would actually count for something?
I agree a simple majority should win (even if I loved how 2000 turned out). Bush came too close to losing considering his sizeable lead over Kerry.
Originally posted by Uncle Liam This election was the highest turnout in years, but how high would turnout be if people believed that there vote would actually count for something?
Probably a whole lot more people, perhaps even the younger generations, would come and become a larger part of the process for sure. And you're right, because of the electoral college system, many people won't vote because tey believe no matter what their vote won't make a difference.
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Uncle Liam> > > Bush came too close to losing considering his sizeable lead over Kerry.
At one point sure, but this was before more than half of the total votes had been reported by individule districts.
And when said and done, he did pretty well with many more popular votes and electoral votes than anyone [except me] predicted. 284 electoral votes ain't that shabby!
Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by Tristan> > > > > > > Originally posted by Uncle Liam> > Bush came too close to losing considering his sizeable lead over Kerry.>
At one point sure, but this was before more than half of the total votes had been reported by individule districts. And when said and done, he did pretty well with many more popular votes and electoral votes than anyone [except me] predicted. 284 electoral votes ain't that shabby!He should have has 300! Hell he was able to get 269+ when he lost by 500,000!
Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS > Originally posted by Tristan> > > > > > > Originally posted by Uncle Liam> > Bush came too close to losing considering his sizeable lead over Kerry.>
At one point sure, but this was before more than half of the total votes had been reported by individule districts. And when said and done, he did pretty well with many more popular votes and electoral votes than anyone [except me] predicted. 284 electoral votes ain't that shabby!He should have has 300! Hell he was able to get 269+ when he lost by 500,000!
Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda...bur remember, there is NO WAY IN HELL that a majority of Cali or NY would EVER vote for Bush or any Republic similar to Bush in our lifetime. Those states are just too traditional in their liberal ideals to lean to the right. The coasts have typically been that way and rarely do Republicans see that kind of shift in point to their favor. Paradigms like that and traditional values are just too difficult to break, regardless as to whether or not Bush should have gotten 300.
Au contraire! It's not been a very long time since when Cali was a more right leaning state. If Bush can make more inroads with the Latino population (through religion), it would not be any stretch of the mind to see a Repub get propelled into the White House by Cali electoral votes. Look at the votes in CA county by county and see how many Bush won.
Funny how the Red vs Blue breakdown for California nearly mirrors that of the nation. Coast for Kerry...Heartland for Bush.
Same was for Ah-Nold vs Bustamonte (sp?) as well.
Just thought that was intersting.
Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS OK then....6. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting age. We only lost by three and a half million!
A--hem!! It seems he didn't wait for a mojority of the outstanding baloots to come in, did he? Let's see, I think as of this morning he was off by about 4 million. Oh yeah...he's credible.
CNN and NY Times both report a 3.5 million vote difference.
Originally posted by twist If the Democrats want the White House then they need to stop being the party of Freaks--welfare moms, gehtto people, gays and those that want to live off the State.
Just to be clear: you're saying that people who are born with a different sexual orientation than your own are "freaks"? You're saying that poor people, or as you refer to them "ghetto people," are freaks? Women who are deserted by the father of their children-- "freaks"?
Its not that 59 million right wing Christian wackos voted for Bush, it's the fact that the Party got its ass kicked everywhere but Hawaii and Chicago. Afrika Bambatta or who ever from Illinois that beat carpetbagger Alan Keyes is not the answer. The Demos need a more moderate message and commitment.
Don't forget California. And Oregon. Washington. New York. And all the other states that voted Kerry-- 252 electoral votes in all. But nice use of racist imagery with the references to the "ghetto people" freaks and "Afrika Bambatta." I'm sure it plays well in the red states.
59 million Americans are not right wing gun nuts that want abortion banned and school prayer.
59 million? No, that's unlikely. But a significant percentage-- yes, that is verifiable.
They are people that would rather stick with the status quo risk 4 years of an extreme liberal that cannot take a position without flip flopping,
Bush propaganda.
By the way, anybody care to claim that Bush hasn't "flip-flopped"?
someone that although a war hero became a traitor then denied it and fought to suppress the opinion and voice of those that said he was a traitor, a Senator who's voting record completely denies his campaign promises. Yes, Clinton is more trustworthy in a motel full of fat horney interns than Kerry is at his word.
Are you sure you're an American? Because you seem to be equating exercise of the First Amendment with traitorous behavior. You seem to be saying that questioning the policies of the government is traitorous behavior.
Until the inner city population out numbers the rest of the nation big liberals will never win. Americans not living in NYC, Chicago et al want less government, want to keep the money they earn (lower taxes) want to keep their guns (most gun crimes committed by those that own them illegally or would have voted for Democratic), do not believe gays should be allowed to marry and believe that Welfare has failed.
One of us uses drugs (criminal behavior, by the way), the other doesn't. I don't use drugs.
Which is why I don't make statements like "most gun crimes committed by those that...would have voted for Democratic [sic]."
Maybe you should re-think the drug use?
Sure Bush got us in this damn war but 59 million Americans did not think that the anti-Defense and anti-CIA Kerry would be better to end this mess. Sure the Recession that cursed the Nation early in Bush's watch hurt but America rejected the Democratic solution.
Interesting that somebody at the White House (**cough**Karl Rove**cough**) outs a CIA agent (a crime, by the way), and Kerry is the one who's "anti-CIA." Interesting that Bush lies about CIA intelligence he's received, subsequently blames the CIA for not giving him good intelligence, and Kerry's the one who's "anti-CIA."
Americans want less government, want to keep their money, and want a strong defense.
So they voted for the candidate who wants to shift the tax system from an income-based tax to a wage-based tax. And they voted for the candidate who saddled their children and grandchildren with historic levels of debt. And they voted for the candidate who has dramatically increased government intrusion into their lives. And they voted for the candidate who has so stretched the capacity of our armed forces that we're relying on under-equipped National Guard units to occupy an oil rich country.
Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS 2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
This only refers to the Electoral votes...a silly concept that may have made senes before we were all thought of, but scary one today.
Hmmm...and 4 years ago, the Right was bitching about how Gore supporters kept "yammering" about how Bush had lost the popular but won the electoral...
...I smell a waffle...
Originally posted by carroll13 > Originally posted by Darth CHUNKS 2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
This only refers to the Electoral votes...a silly concept that may have made senes before we were all thought of, but scary one today.
Hmmm...and 4 years ago, the Right was bitching about how Gore supporters kept "yammering" about how Bush had lost the popular but won the electoral...
...I smell a waffle...
You've no arguement from me on this one Carrol. I was merelt stating that I believe the entire concept to be a bit silly these days.
At any rate...I am done with this stuff. The ballots are [mostly] counted and it's ova...finally!!!!
Now lets get back to important things like picking on NO's choice of singles for Get Ready or something useful!!!
...Mmmmmm...Waffles....:p
Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr OK, so far we can agree on melons and waffles. Mmmmmmm.
Melons as is "Juggs" or "Boobies" melons?
Good enough. I'll take that how ever my perved mind wants to take it. [sniff, sniff]...do you smell waffles!?
