Arafat dead.....

May God have mercy on his soul.

Well if there is a Heaven and a Hell, then he's going to Hell, and I hope Sharon goes along with him too. Fuck them both.

He was a Terorist like George Bush , fuck em both

Did I read that correctly, you would shaft them both?

Originally posted by Digital Mike Binoche He was a Terorist like George Bush , fuck em both

Eeeeewwwwww!!! DMB is naaaaaasty!!

Arrafat was uttery useless to the Palestinian people at large for the last several years and lost any credibility he ever had some time back during the Clinton Admin.... Personally, I'm glad that's over. It was cutting in to my repetitive coverage of legal analysts covering the damn Peterson trail. C'mon...bring on the speculations!!!

So I guess, what I mean to say is:

:finger:

He'll need god to have mercy on his soul.

Blood of 1000's of people on his hands, the collapsr of any hope of his peace was his fault, one of the worlds biggest terrorists etc etc.

Cant say i am upset or have any sympathy whatsoever at his demise. The only thing i am happy about that Israel didnt kill him, so his people cannor refer to him as a martyr.

One observation: Arafat dies in luxury in Paris, Normal Palestinians die in the street due to the corruption of the Arafat administration.

Profound

ARAFAT dies in disgrace. He turned his back to his people when he rejected the peace plan. The killings started within months. The real tragedy is that it took his death to change Palestinean leadership.

I wonder whether Suha will give any of the tens of millions of her dead husband dollars back to the Palestinians... Probably not when she can blow it on shopping sprees in Paris.

I do realise its kinda irritating for us well-fed children of the free western world to watch the TV news almost every night sitting on our comfortable couch and constantly facing the same old story: war, killings, terrorist attacks in this same old little piece of our planet. We cant't help getting dead tired of watching the same old sh** all the time, and we cant help wishing that some kind of peace deal will be finally accepted by both parts - we don't care really if this deal is fair or not, we just want a bloody deal! And when a deal like that isnt accepted by one or both parts, we have "every reason" to be angry against the leader that is "narrow minded" or "terrorist" enough to reject it...

No matter what the real facts of this ugly conflict are (which im almost 100% sure that none of us really knows) one thing is certain for late Arafat: That he was the undoubtful and loved leader for more than 40 years of his people that were fighing to finally have their own counry (like the one each one of us is lucky enough to live in). That's something more than enough, for me at least, to respect a man like him ...

God rest his soul, may he forgive his mistakes and, most important of everything, help both his people and Israelis finally live in peace.

He was one of the few leaders who was always there, ever since my childhood. The only other on I can think of is Castro.

Apparently he's been dressed in a Newcastle top, Spurs shorts and Rangers socks - he wanted to be buried in the Gazza Strip.

Originally posted by Elias I do realise its kinda irritating for us well-fed children of the free western world to watch the TV news almost every night sitting on our comfortable couch and constantly facing the same old story: war, killings, terrorist attacks in this same old little piece of our planet. We cant't help getting dead tired of watching the same old sh** all the time, and we cant help wishing that some kind of peace deal will be finally accepted by both parts - we don't care really if this deal is fair or not, we just want a bloody deal! And when a deal like that isnt accepted by one or both parts, we have "every reason" to be angry against the leader that is "narrow minded" or "terrorist" enough to reject it...No matter what the real facts of this ugly conflict are (which im almost 100% sure that none of us really knows) one thing is certain for late Arafat: That he was the undoubtful and loved leader for more than 40 years of his people that were fighing to finally have their own counry (like the one each one of us is lucky enough to live in). That's something more than enough, for me at least, to respect a man like him ...God rest his soul, may he forgive his mistakes and, most important of everything, help both his people and Israelis finally live in peace.

This was a joke, right? Please tell me your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek.

Which ever side of the Isreal/Palestine conflict you fall on, one thing is clear: Arafat was the father of modern global terrorism and a cold blooded murderer. He was the largest obstacle to peace between Isreal and the Palestinians. His rejection of Barak's massive concessions in 2000 is evidence enough. Arafat realized that peace would mean irrelevance for himself (not to mention a cessation of his ability to skim tens of millions of dollars in aid money meant for "his" people).

Change the name from Arafat to Reagan, and most of what you said still holds true.

Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr Change the name from Arafat to Reagan, and most of what you said still holds true.

Bullshit, no offense

Forgive Blue, he is just a Sore-Loserman.

I think Clinton did more bombing than Reagan.

Originally posted by Michael McDermott This was a joke, right? Please tell me your tongue was firmly planted in your cheek.Which ever side of the Isreal/Palestine conflict you fall on, one thing is clear: Arafat was the father of modern global terrorism and a cold blooded murderer. He was the largest obstacle to peace between Isreal and the Palestinians. His rejection of Barak's massive concessions in 2000 is evidence enough. Arafat realized that peace would mean irrelevance for himself (not to mention a cessation of his ability to skim tens of millions of dollars in aid money meant for "his" people).

If you read my post carefully, u 'd realise that i never claimed i know a lot about this case at all - my point was that none of us should be final at his conclusions if he isnt as well. I hope ure certainty comes from a full knowledge of the situation, although u have to pardon my doubts...

As for the "terrorism" issue i would be grateful if u could define that word for me - cos as far as i know there isnt such a definition undoubtfully accepted yet.

Finally, say that Arafat was in fact a terrorist, a mean guy, someone who only cared for himself. How can u explain the love of his people for him then? Either they are all a nation of terrorists or they are all stupid, right? Well sorry if i can't accept the first option, as for the second, im sure they all must be so gratefull to have us to show them the truth...

First of all there is no God, or Allah, or Heaven, or Hell any of that Bullshit. Arafat isn’t in hell, and he isn’t resplendent in supernatural glory either. He wasn’t possessed by “evil”, and he wasn’t touched by the hand of God. Wake up people.

If one area of the world reminds us of the poison that is religion, it must be the middle east.

Arafat was a reactionary, and I have little time for him. His “people” do indeed live in desperate poverty (Due to the Israeli state, not a terrorist group that claims to represent them), and he was in many respects, a gobshite.

To say that his failure to accept a pittance of a “peace treaty” was a fundamental reason for unrest and the latest Intifada is entirely fatuous. For a start, the “peace offering” didn’t even allow the right of return, and more fundamentally, “his people” would have booted him out if he accepted it (and he knew it).

He was a terrorist, that is true, a violent reactionary thug, but it must also be remembered that for every one person murdered by Arafat and co, 7 were murdered by the Israeli State.

On the issue of “terrorism”, would UL, MMD and co have labelled the French Resistance during the 2nd world war as “terrorists”? One mans “freedom fighter” is another mans “terrorist”. I would call Arafat a terrorist myself, but no more so than Ariel Sharon.

My biggest problem with Arafat is his failure to propose a counteroffer to the Barak-Clinton offer. I don't blame him for not accepting the treaty, but I blame him for not attempting to compromise. As much as I disliked Arafat, I dislike Sharon more, who is the biggest reason for the recent violence when he so gallantly marched his troops into the West Bank . As far as the religion part goes, I'm an atheist [what good Republican isn't :wink]; I was just saying that if there was a Hell, Arafat would be there, and I hope Sharon will be going there soon.

Which ever side of the Isreal/Palestine conflict you fall on, one thing is clear: Arafat was the father of modern global terrorism and a cold blooded murderer. He was the largest obstacle to peace between Isreal and the Palestinians.

Hmm, so, Menachem Begin's international campaign of terrorism, and the Israeli bulldozing and occupation of Palestinian neighborhoods are somehow "not applicable?" If you play ping pong with terrorists, the ball comes back at some point....often bigger. I'd say "snowball ping poing", but that may be too many metaphorical layers.

The whole Arab-Israeli thing is one of the most tragic occurances because what they're fighting over is a strip of land that just happens to be a place of significance for each of the three major world religions, and it's been reduced to a neverending slaughter field because both sides refuse to acknowledge the other.

Arafat was a terrorist, and he doesn't deserve our sympathies simply because he died. But you can't slam Arafat without taking into account the Israelis who helped ferment this conflict. There's plenty of blame to go around, and while it may be un-PC in these post-9/11 times to find some sympathy with terrorists, the fact remains that for a large chunk of time there was significant strides made that each side rejected in turn.

I don't claim to be a Middle East scholar, but I do know that Palestinians didn't react well to the news that Israel was being created as a refuge for Jews after the Second World War. The Israelis are engaged in a fight for their very existence, and they are to be commended for their struggle. But on occasion, certain individuals such as Sharon have taken the very legitimate concern for the safety of the nation to engage in aggresive and arrogant policies that normally would not be condoned.

On the other hand, Palestinians began to engage in terrorist activity to fight back, but it's become simply a fact of life now. There's nothing right about killing another human being, but before you could at least say that the Palestinians had an issue to take with Israel. Now, it just seems like senseless violence that no side wants to see go away because it will take away their relevance. After all, neither Arafat nor Sharon can say "I will protect you" if they have nothing to fear, right?

I guess, when it's all said and done, that the conflict is not black-and-white; you could make as strong a case for Palestinians as you could Israelis to live where they live and do what they do. But what we're left with in the end is more dead bodies, more families decimated, more bloodshed, and more questions than answers as to why this continues.

So I don't mourn Arafat; I'm not one of those Leftys who embrace terrorists as "heroes of the people". But I do mourn the people who Arafat and Sharon helped kill, and I do mourn the future casualties of one of the most senseless and abhorrant conflicts ever. And what really pisses me off are the "Christians" who actually applaud this bloodshed as being "signs of the end of days". Anyone who takes joy in this is Hell-bound for sure.

Having read some of the latest posts, i cant say more than im glad that reasonable arguments have taken the place of easy comments and advice to ppl that we know very litle about . The problem however, the main for me at least, is that in this conflict, reason isnt a major factor in most ppl's heads - its been replaced by heavy nationalistic ideas, religious explanations etc etc. Even the slightest knowledge of world history is more than enough to convience everyone how harmfull all these ideas can be - just as harmfull as the (delibarate?) ignorance of history ;) .

I refuse to take any parts in this long ago unreasonable conflict, just cos i know that both parties have their historical arguments, rights and they have both suffered. No way historians of the future will ever justify killings of innocent people, that are simply staying on their homes, or take the bus to their work, but i do think they will (or at least should) be harder on us, for judging everyone so easilly, while we don't really give a dime, we do nothing about it, as long as we are still safe, our plate is still full and our house's roof is still on its place..

Ronald Reagan:

"I am a contra too."

"The contras blew up bridges, civilian power plants and schools, they burned fields of crops and attacked hospitals. Their tactics included rape, kidnappings of peasants and civilians, ambushes and massacres against small rural communities, farms, co-operatives, schools and health clinics. Contra raids caused extensive damage to crop fields, grain silos, irrigation projects, farm houses and machinery. Numerous state farms and co-operatives were incapacitated; other farms still intact were abandoned because of the danger.

Witness For Peace, an American Protestant watchdog body, collected a list of contra atrocities in one year, which included murder, the rape of two girls in their homes, torture of men, maiming of children, cutting off arms, cutting out tongues, gouging out eyes, castration, bayoneting pregnant women in the stomach, amputating the genitals of people of both sexes, gouging out eyes, scraping the skin off the face, pouring acid on the face, breaking the toes and fingers of an 18 year old boy, and summary executions. These were the people Ronald Reagan called "freedom fighters" and "the moral equal of our founding fathers."

One survivor of a contra raid in Jinotega province, which borders Honduras, reported: "Rosa had her breasts cut off. Then they cut into her chest and took out her heart. The men had their arms broken, their testicles cut off and their eyes poked out. They were killed by slitting their throats and pulling the tongue out through the slit." The human rights organisation Americas watch, concluded that "the contras systematically engage in violent abuses…. so prevalent that these may be said to be their principle means of waging war."

Yes and Clinton blindly supported the Kosovars, and hmmm the KLA saw fit to attack Macedonia...

Originally posted by Tristan > Originally posted by bLuE oRdEr> Change the name from Arafat to Reagan, and most of what you said still holds true.

Bullshit, no offense

None taken.

Originally posted by Al Jarvis > Originally posted by Elias> No matter what the real facts of this ugly conflict are (which im almost 100% sure that none of us really knows) one thing is certain for late Arafat: That he was the undoubtful and loved leader for more than 40 years of his people that were fighing to finally have their own counry (like the one each one of us is lucky enough to live in). That's something more than enough, for me at least, to respect a man like him ...> > God rest his soul, may he forgive his mistakes and, most important of everything, help both his people and Israelis finally live in peace.

At last, someone with a modicum of common sense. Bravo.

For anyone citing Arafat as the 'father of modern terrorism', please go google Yitzhak Shamir and the Stern Gang. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

amen. twice. and don't forget menachem begin and the irgun.

many of arafat's actions i take issue with, but he brought the tragedy of the palestinians into the world's consciousness, just as shamir and begin brought the fight for a jewish state into the world's consciousness. they all went on to be respected statesmen in their later years.

Should have made barvaria the Jewish Homeland. A fitting punishment for the Nazis and much better real estate.

I must say I was surpised about Teenage Kicks being played at his funeral. Or possibly I wasn't fully paying attention to the News.

Originally posted by 404 error I must say I was surpised about Teenage Kicks being played at his funeral. Or possibly I wasn't fully paying attention to the News.