Tour de Lance

Lance Armstrong's last Tour...Should we care? Is he doping? Do they all dope? Discuss.

Lance has more people looking at his piss and blood than men in drag sniffing Cher's undergarments. He would have to an absolute moron to dope. On the other hand, several other teams seem to get busted every year. Factor in the frrench Blood Testing Agency that5 issues false positives and nobody can be trusted. Just read in BIKE that a woman MTB racer tested positive to something that occurs naturally during ovulation.

If you want to dis Lance dis him for dumping his wife (who nursed him through cancer) for that unkempted and hairy bush Sheryl Crow. Also dis him for focusing on the Tour instead of all the other great European races.

Well, I agree with you about dissing him for dumping his wife after the cancer...

But I actually wasn't dissing him per se. I really like the cycling events, but I find it hard to get excited about a racer's achievements if the racer has cheated. I'm not saying Armstrong has ever cheated, but the question is hanging out there, which makes it hard to celebrate his accomplishments. Like I always say, I could cheat by entering the race for the last 1000 feet or so-- it doesn't make me a champion.

I'm also not sure if anybody who's competing is racing "clean," which makes it hard to get excited about the event, even though I want to be excited by it...

Epo. Thickens the Blood,helps you up mountains, and has numerous side effects including suffering clots in your sleep.

1)Armstrong gets cancer, and admirably survives 2)His treatment (obviously) involves numerous,ongoing blood treating drugs 3)After all this, he comes back and wins.

I think it has to do with more than loosing a few pounds during treatment. Riders don't get regular tests off season - and go to dope and training camps during this period to top up on red blood cells for the season. This still happens today - dont believe the "lance has men in white coats follow him everywhere" bullshit. British rider David Miller came clean (or pissed in the soup as they say) about this matter last year after he was found doping.

Anyone with their head in the sand and more than a passing interest in Cycling should read an account of life as a pro by Irish writer Paul Kimmage. Its the best sports book I've ever read.

Check it out

They all takes drugs/dope them selfes

Oh yeah.

France is a lovely place for a tour...pity about the people, though

I think it's admirable, but I couldn't give a damn. Guys riding around on bikes for days, then race down Paris's streets and it's over. Big whoop. Give me a good pitching duel or Game Seven of an NBA series any day over that

Taboo # 7 wrote: Give me a good pitching duel or Game Seven of an NBA series any day over that

Having trouble sleeping again?

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote: Give me a good pitching duel or Game Seven of an NBA series any day over that

Having trouble sleeping again?

Yeah, I've been totally missing out on my rasslin'. Did Hulk Hogan beat Andre the Giant yet?

I'm not saying I could run the Tour De France, but I'm also not saying it's great television

Taboo # 7 wrote: I'm not saying I could run the Tour De France, but I'm also not saying it's great television

Sure you could...after doping. It works for the pros!

Lance Armstrong before doping:

Lance Armstrong after doping:

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote: I'm not saying I could run the Tour De France, but I'm also not saying it's great television

Sure you could...after doping. It works for the pros!

Lance Armstrong before doping:

Lance Armstrong after doping:

Taboo # 7 wrote:

bLuE oRdEr wrote:

Taboo # 7 wrote: I'm not saying I could run the Tour De France, but I'm also not saying it's great television

Sure you could...after doping. It works for the pros!

Lance Armstrong before doping:

Lance Armstrong after doping:

Taboo #7 before doping:

Taboo #7 after doping:

See? I told you!

They used to be able to climb that-- I think. It's the records they're setting that are unreal.

An excerpt from Velocio, Grand Seigneur:

"In 1900, when he was forty-seven, he toured the high passes in Switzerland and Italy, 400 miles with a total climb of 18,000 feet, in forty-eight hours.

For Easter, in 1903, at the age of fifty, he rode from Saint-Etienne to Menton and back in four days: 600 miles on a bicycle weighting sixty-six pounds including baggage.

For Christmas 1904 he cycled from Saint-Etienne to Arles and back on a night so cold that icicles formed on his mustache.

His "spring cure" in 1910 took him from Saint-Etienne to Nice, a distance of 350 miles, in thirty-two hours. At Nice he joined a group of friend for 250 miles of leisurely touring in three days.

The following summer he tackled one of the highest Alpine passes, the Lautaret, in the company of a young friend: 300 miles in thirty-one hours.

In 1912 also, when he was fifty-nine, he undertook an experimental ride from Saint-Etienne to Aix-en-Provence, 400 miles in forty-six hours, at the end of which he had to admit that his companion, thirty-five, tolerated the second night on the road better than he. "From now on," he wrote in Le Cycliste, "I will limit myself to stages of forty hours and leave it to the younger generation to prove that the human motor can run for three days and two nights without excessive fatigue."

"Every cyclist between twenty and sixty in good health," wrote Velocio with the fervor of a missionary, "can ride 130 miles in a day with 600 feet of climbing, provided he eats properly and provided he has the proper bicycle." Proper food, in his opinion, meant no meat. A proper bicycle meant a comfortable bicycle with wide-ratio gears, a fairly long wheelbase, and wide-section tires. A bicycle with close-ratio gears, a short wheelbase, and narrow-section tires will roll better at first, he pointed out, but it will wear its rider down on long-distance attempts. The first consideration is comfort. His diet on tour consisted of fruit, rice, cakes, eggs, and milk."

blue order before doping:

blue order after doping:

Stunning

Clockwork C wrote:

Anyone with their head in the sand and more than a passing interest in Cycling should read an account of life as a pro by Irish writer Paul Kimmage. Its the best sports book I've ever read.

Check it out

Thanks Conor!

The advantage Lance had over his competition was the ability to rebuild his body after cancer destroyed it. He freely admits that. Shame that Greg Lemond had a short career. I always thought he was a better rider.

BTW those are real bikes that anyone with a fee grand can purchase. Too bad most are speced with Shimano.

twist wrote:

BTW those are real bikes that anyone with a fee grand can purchase. Too bad most are speced with Shimano.

You mean the LeMond's?

Lemond should have used campy. He did toy with the Mavic electronic shifters for a bit but he did not use them for the big race.

Have you seen SRAM's new system? It is now possible to get a full USA made groupo. First time ever.

Congratulations, I guess. I'd feel more like it's an incredible victory/career if there weren't these doping allegations following him (and the other cyclists). Umm, guys, if you're cheating-- and it seems like at least some of you, and possibly all of you are--you're ruining the sport.

well i think Super Lance is a legend!

You can not knock him for what he's achieved at all.

i'm not sure about the doping, but i think the technology has a lot to do with it. the bikes they use, the equipment they train with, the clothing...it all adds up. but i think we're about to reach a point in almost every sport where the human body simply can't break any more records because we've reached our biological limits.

Congrats to Lance on his achievment.

And who will take over now? Basso? Vinokourov? 'Der Jan' (Ullrich)? Valverde? Cunego?

Your thoughts on that please......

As 'Der Jan' would say: Danke, Jungs! ;)

And now, the libel suit.

I love this month. The greatest event in my chosen activity, bicycling, occurs when I am on the largest bike ride in the world, RAGBRAI. Living in a tent and riding to new overnight campgrounds made it extremely to follow the Tour. During this week I generally go on a newsfast and avoid newspapers and electronic media. I remember in 89 or 90 when someone started a rumor that Greg had a heart attack and died. But this year we all kepted an ear out for news about Lance. Some bastard took it too far and wore a shirt that said "LANCE IS GOD." But those of us participating in our favorite activity on a 500 mile week long bicycling tour could ignore the rumors and enjoy the fact that one of our own on a Trek retired on top.

BTW I doped on Friday. I drank four beers and smoked three bowls before departing on tandem with Wifey. We took a short cut that saved us 16 miles yet we averaged 16 mph for the 48 miles we rode through some of the steepest hills we had all week. I was suprised on how strong we rode that day. Mrs. Twist amazed that I could captain a tandem after "breakfast." People kepted stopping by our campground and sticking cannibus and shit American beer in my face. But oncce on the road we rocked.

twist wrote: I love this month. The greatest event in my chosen activity, bicycling, occurs when I am on the largest bike ride in the world, RAGBRAI. Living in a tent and riding to new overnight campgrounds made it extremely to follow the Tour. During this week I generally go on a newsfast and avoid newspapers and electronic media. I remember in 89 or 90 when someone started a rumor that Greg had a heart attack and died. But this year we all kepted an ear out for news about Lance. Some bastard took it too far and wore a shirt that said "LANCE IS GOD." But those of us participating in our favorite activity on a 500 mile week long bicycling tour could ignore the rumors and enjoy the fact that one of our own on a Trek retired on top.

BTW I doped on Friday. I drank four beers and smoked three bowls before departing on tandem with Wifey. We took a short cut that saved us 16 miles yet we averaged 16 mph for the 48 miles we rode through some of the steepest hills we had all week. I was suprised on how strong we rode that day. Mrs. Twist amazed that I could captain a tandem after "breakfast." People kepted stopping by our campground and sticking cannibus and shit American beer in my face. But oncce on the road we rocked.

Welcome back! I just started reading a book called Bicycle: The History. It mentions RAGBRAI (page 11). I'd like to do that ride sometime. BTW, did you ever bid onthe Motobecane head badge?

Doping in cycling?

As for me, I don't know what to think, who to trust and what to believe. History shows that several great and less great champions have doped (Merckx, Museeuw, Zoetemelk, Pantani, Virenque, Zulle, Frigo recently etc. etc.). This, however, doesn't mean Lance Armstrong has ever doped. But did they really need it to perform better? I mean, Merckx! The best rider ever! Why did they take it? Were they forced to take it? Will we ever know?

The thing is: with these tests they look for certain traces of KNOWN doping products (such as epo). But who knows if Lance uses something that is 'new' in the chemical world and cannot yet be traced down?

Many years ago (early 90s) nobody had heard of epo in professional cycling, and they weren't looking for it in the tests. Besides, there are all kinds of masking products. People now suspect teams from that period (such as the Italian team Gewiss) of having used it then on a large scale. There is no evidence, however. So, what should we make of it? Innocent until proven guilty?

Something that raises a few questions with me is the fact that Lance didn't have one slight cold or stomach problem or anything in the last 7 years. Not one bad day. Coincidence? Luck? I mean, you can be very careful and professional and all that, but you can't control your health all the time, with all the difficult and different circumstances (wet days, cold days, hot days, windy days etc., sometimes the whole lot in one single Tour).

The truth is out there..............

There is one thing that is crystal clear: we should all have deep respect for Lance Armstrong for having won his battle with cancer.

Lance dropped out of the Tour on his first try.

Blue Order types

Welcome back! I just started reading a book called Bicycle: The History. It mentions RAGBRAI (page 11). I'd like to do that ride sometime. BTW, did you ever bid onthe Motobecane head badge?

Never bid on the Moto head badge. I purchased some Testors decal paper that runs through the printer. I'll give that a go.

RAGBRAI is an absolute blast. Always the last full week of July. If you ever get the urge you are more than welcome to ride with us and use our bus to schlep your gear from overnight to overnight.

Thank you Twist!

Last full week of July. Ship your bike out and fly in to Des Moines. Bring a tent or sleep on the bus.

Well done to Lance. Been great watching him these last few years Next year is going to be wide open.

So what do you guys ride ??

I do about a 1000 miles a month on a 2004 LeMond Zurich :)

Also got a Ridgeback Switch Storm for a bit of off road.

Don't let yourselves be fooled around People : i do racing bike (a lot) but as free lance, not pro. of course, and i'm often told that i'm quite capable at it. With the very few exceptions of some historic Great Champions over the last century, actually they're all druged and doped to death !!! No one can race at those speed, for such long trip and everyone, or so, on the peloton doin' some 55 km/hr. as average speed... Balls !!! Try doin' it and you'll see what i mean, even if you get enough spare time to train yourself the hard way. I mean, it could be possible for, perhaps, some of them, the strongest, but quite everyone bein' a rocket... Sad thing is, like in every major sport competition these days, it's all corrupted by money and interests in the like, sport has very little to say in the matter. When i look to the Tour de France nowadays, 's just for the pleasure to have a look at the fantastic new bikes, not the fakes that drive them.

That's what I'm saying. Hard to get excited about an athletic "accomplishment" when it's just somebody cheating.

Did Eddy M dope? What about LeMond? Opine.

From Bicycle: The History, the 1904 Tour de France:

The Tour was evidently off to a good start, but the second edition was rife with scandal. Contestants allegedly sneaked onto trains in the dead of night to reach the next checkpoint. On the road, they sprinkled nails in their wake to puncture the tires of their rivals. A few were even attacked en route by hired thugs. The organizers conducted an investigation and sent a stern message to the racers that no more shenanigans would be tolerated: three racers were banned for life, and the top four finishers were disqualified. Garin, who had won again, received a two-year ban for the seemingly minor infraction of accepting food from a motorist during the competition. In 1953, he was finally honored in ceremonies marking the fiftieth anniversary of the Tour, but his second victory was never reinstated despite his lifelong protests that he had done nothing wrong.Suddenly, it appeared that the grand race was doomed to a short existence. After careful reflection, however, Desgrange decided to go ahead with a third Tour in 1905, taking several measures to curtail sabotage by racers or non-racers. In particular, Desgrange did away with nighttime riding so that racers no longer disappeared into the darkness. He also expanded the format to eleven stages that were shorter, and thus presumably easier to monitor…In 1910, the Tour entered the great passes of the Pyrenees, and the following year it headed into the Alps...In the early years, racers had only two speeds with a high and a low gear mounted on either side of their rear wheels. The only way to switch gears in preparation for a climb was to get off the bicycle, remove the rear wheel, flip it to the other side, reattach the chain to the sprocket, and tighten the wheel before hopping back into the saddle.

twist wrote: Lemond should have used campy. He did toy with the Mavic electronic shifters for a bit but he did not use them for the big race.

Have you seen SRAM's new system? It is now possible to get a full USA made groupo. First time ever.

So what do you think of the SRAM gruppo?

I'm going to build up my Bianchi frame into a 29er, and then build up my Motobecane into a real touring bike. Need to figue out components for both bikes. Seems like most choices are between Campy and Shimano, but Campy really seems limited to road racing applications these days.

For the Bianchi, I'd like a gruppo that could function for a 29er/cyclocross/touring/commuting application. Shimano Deore XT or XTR, SRAM, or try to find an old Campy Record off road gruppo?

For the Motobecane, I'd like a gruppo that could function for a commuting/touring application. Again-- Shimano Deore XT or XTR, SRAM, or find an old Campy Record off road gruppo? Seems like the same type of gruppo would work for both bikes, doesn't it?

What do you think, Twist?

Beating the test

My 520 came with Deore DX and downtube shifters. Today that would be XT. My new tandem has a triple and Ultegra/XTR. The only issue with the tandem is the STI shifters were not made for the M brakes so they have a cam above the cantilevers. Now that I have about 1000 miles with the Ultgra/XTR combo I like it it quite a bit. it did get noisy after riding through rain.

9 speed is mighty smooth if the chain is clean. 8 speed handles the gunk better thus I would favor this for extended touring. Chains are cheaper too. I would use bar caon shifters or downtube over STI shifters. More reliable, not in the way and repairable.

I do not know if Campy makes a triple. Maybe on their lesser lines. That is where my heart lies. Ergo shifters have the cables hidden and you can adjust the front derailer so much better than with STI.

I think some of Campy's old mountain gruppos have triple chainrings. I'd have to buy used if I went with Campy.

Have you heard anything about SRAM?

I spent a week riding with a wrench that has a SRAM equipted mtb. Funky looking rear derailer (sp, one of many). I was never a fan of GripShift but Carl said that they have a new shifter coming out and IIRC he described it as a sort of thumb shifter style. If I was building a mtb I'd probably go that route.

As for road bikes you could probably use SRAMs drivetrain but I am not sure about the shifters. But I bet downtube shifters would work. Downtube shifters are my favorite anyway being easy to maintain, friction mode available, the cleanest lines and they do not get in the way.

The Comeback

Eddy Mercx once said that Lance could win as many Tours as he wanted to. Personally I'd like him to stay retired or maybe focus on the races he ignored as to save his strength for the Tour. But I understand his desire to tell the French to fuck off. I'd love to see him win one more then as he crosses the finish line whip his cock out piss on some French Piss Tester. "Take that you frog swine. Drink it up, it's clean!"

READ HIS BOOK "it's not about the bike' - having spend MANY hours humped over on a bike, not nearly in a 50mph peleton, nor on any of the climbs he wins, and I say - Lance is GOD. If the FRENCH can't deal with American (or other!!) domination of their dear sport, then au revior to them!

Game 7 NBA / NHL / Superbowl - GEEZ - Baseball (!) HAVE NOTHING on 3 weeks of racing. NOTHING.

did he dope in 99? Then won!, 00 - won? 01, 02, 03 ,04... what else!!!

The man deserves our respect, the Frenchie's respect and don't think that there will be another anytime soon...

BTW - OLN did a great job on coverage

twist wrote: I'd love to see him win one more then as he crosses the finish line whip his cock out piss on some French Piss Tester. "Take that you frog swine. Drink it up, it's clean!"

coq au vent?

twist wrote: Eddy Mercx once said that Lance could win as many Tours as he wanted to.

i'd agree with that. the man is just unstoppable at the moment in the tour. if i was him i'd keep going until i was beat then you know its time to go.

plus he'd probably be about 36-37 when that happened and thats a respectable age to retire in sport

Armstrong to Train With Team This Winter

Too bad he will not race the rest of the European circuit like Mercx.

UCI says no evidence of doping

I'm beginning to think he may be clean; he'd have to be a complete idiot to race dirty next year, and I don't think he's that dim-witted, so...

Armstrong Closes Door On Comeback Lance: 'I'm Not Going Back'

POSTED: 6:27 am CDT September 16, 2005

Lance Armstrong made his retirement from cycling official Thursday, ending a career that included an unprecedented seven straight Tour de France titles.

Armstrong won the last of those Tour titles in July and had announced prior to this year's event that it would most likely be his last.

However, since that time Armstrong has had to combat doping allegations put forth by the French newspaper L'Equipe and the World Anti-Doping Agency. The International Cycling Union said there was no proof to back up the accusations, but still, the rumors led Armstrong to consider coming back for another Tour. Yet, he ended that possibility at a Thursday night media conference call.

"I'm happy with the way it ended. I'm not going back," read a statement on Armstrong's official website.

Armstrong's heroic battle with cancer coupled with his success at the Tour de France transformed the Texas native into one of the elite and most recognizable athletes in the world. Armstrong will celebrate his 34th birthday on Sunday.

No come back kid