calling all bass players

I know this is off topic, but:

I want to learn bass and would like your suggestions on a cheapish bass to learn on, also does anyone know if the legendary "Palamer Hughes book of bass" ever existed or if it's still available.

Jed Stephens wrote: I know this is off topic, but:

I want to learn bass and would like your suggestions on a cheapish bass to learn on, also does anyone know if the legendary "Palamer Hughes book of bass" ever existed or if it's still available.

It all depends on what style of bass you want to play. I would get something that you like the sound of, the feel of, try out the neck width if you are slender fingered and peruse the music shops trying/ playing wherever you go. 4 string, 5 or 6? Fender copies are usually ok to start with, any Hohner or Peavey to start with should do you initially. Then you can consider your Shergolds etc. if you decide to start getting your knee down wearing your leather pants... Beware of 2nd hand deals. You could be buying a pile of sh*te with active problems / warped necksetc.

For books, try Amazon. They should have a copy of wherever you want.

And this topic should be Behind Closed Doors.

:bag:

Although a Fender copy ( why do they always copy the Pbass not the Jazz?) is ALWAYS a good bet, they do tend to be fat in the neck and a tad heavy. I'm an intensely lazy bastard so I eventually gravitated to an Aria SLB-II, which has a paper thin neck and weighs less than most guitars ( the horrid whiney things I mean, I never call a bass a guitar, it's not, it's a member of the violin family, cut into a guitar shape...6 strings are anybody's guess)

Things to know.

This is deep and techie, but the bass is not a complex beast, once you know the bits it all makes sense (well, unless it's active). BUT, it'll save you grief. There are only 2 types of people who will tell you that the sound is 90% the player and their technique......type A. owns a custom, either a one off or an terrifyingly expensive one by a big custom maker, the sort of instrument that just translates thought into sound (I played such a bass ONCE, a £3000+ Goodfellow, in the 90 secs or so I held it, I was a funky black geezer with fingers of iron testifying the groove, then I was a pale blue Hooky wannabe again.) Type B makes an appalling(possibly in a good way) racket with a HondaII P-bass copy missing the treble half of it's bridge pickup and often played with a mic stand/beer bottle/saw.

It's a lie, pure and simple. a mediocre bassplayer can sound bloody awesome with the right bass, and a bass god can be a bit average if handed a plank of eternal agony.

Mind you, there may be a lot to be said for learning on a POS for a while before playing something good.

Anyway.....wisdom.....

Basses leave the factory NON-setup. You need to get somone who knows basses, has played for a long time and built/hacked basses, to look it over. If you're lucky it's a matter of messing around with the bridge to set intonation and action (ride height you might say....and just like ride height on a race car, lower is better, UNTIL you bump the ground, or buzz the frets, and a little tweak of the truss rod (though usually a factory fresh bass will have it's truss torgued up for the factory strings in concert tune)

if you're unlucky ( or you really do buy a bottom feeder P-bass clone for 39.95) you'll need the neck off, and shove half a packet of skins (or less) under the bodyward side of the join, then reattach. That gives the neck a (correct) tiny backwards slant, that you then compensate for buy lossening the truss a microscopic amount and allowing the neck a BARELY perceptible bow. I was a bit stunned by this revalation when after like 12 years of playing, I ended up getting lessons as part of my music college course, from a SCARY session head (who once leapt from a fireman;s arms back into a burning building in wich an IRA bomb had gone off.....to get his bass). I'd spent a long time getting the whole lot straight. But he showed me his (oooooer) that used to be a jazzbass once, and ten grabbed the only expensive one in the class (ie the only one that had a good factory setup, or had been bought from a good bass vendor) sure enough they were just as he described. It's probably better to do the truss and then see if the neck needs a shim up or not. Even better to get a basshead to set it up for you.

Strings: learn to play on medium or medium-heavy strings. If you learn to play on, say, the ultralights I use (lazy), and pick up ANY other bass, you'll make an instant arse of yourself cos you wont be able to handle the strings. Learning on heavier ones will build bass muscles (and callouses, which you NEED) MUCH faster.

Amps: don;t buy a practice amp. bass praccy amps are a pathetic joke. firing the fucker thru the PC and into the hi fi is MUCH less annoying and actually sounds like a bass. IT also means you can use "NI Guitar Rig" (3rd effect down under bass is Hooky+a bit of reverb) and save yourself all that fucking around with pedals. always a good idea if you can, and you're a minor audio geek, to pre amplify something like a bass before injecting to a PC. While soundcards are filthy whores who'll take any level at any impedance (and usually switch between them smartly...like the line-out/headphone-out that knows by the impedance whether it's driving a pair of cans or not), a low input will lead your software to amplify the inside of your PC too....not good. If you wanna buy an amp, ask again, it's a whole other world, and one I'm not best placed to comment on ( other than...buy ampeg or peavey, they make huge noises)

Don't ONLY learn with a pick, I did and learning to play other styles was a real chore. Learn at least proper finger bridging and a bit of slap and pull (TPK or some simpler chillies tunes are good tutorials)

Avoid shergolds as learners. They weigh tons, they do not play nice and fair with you, and they will obliterate anything else you mix them with. My mate has a modulator 4 de-fretted and his band banned it from stage, cos it was like 9dB louder than all his other basses, he ended up getting a 5 string electric upright, and even that's quieter (and not a lot heavier to play) Oh and they be hellish pricey.

buy a GOOD lead. Neutrik's each end and double lap screened cable of doom.

learn to tune it first, learn to tune it with harmonics second....or just rely on a tuner and learn with your ears (you can tune your whole bass at once to the intro of no love lost :) )

There is more, but I have rambled long.

I bought a Mexican Precision Fender for $250 off Ebay, replaced the strings almost straight away and am quite happy with it. Ideally I'd like more than the 20 frets it has but it's fine for someone who's learning.

As stated earlier it depends what style you want to play and how good you want to get. If you simple want to play Hooky his basslines are quite simple to learn - I can play almost the back catalogue having got my bass in january, and without the use of tabs (its much funner to figure it out for yourself).

I also take lessons but if you have a friend who is learning an instrument its fun to just learn with him or her or just keep at it on your own.

Good luck and ask questions

Steve Campbell wrote:

There is more, but I have rambled long.

All excellent stuff, very gratefully recieved. putting it through the PC sounds good, I've got Cubase so would be doing that at some point anyway, could save on an amp and put toward a better bass.

In answer to the other comments, I basically want to be another pale immitation of hooky, very sad at my age, but what the hell, life's to short not to pratt about every now and then.

Thanks for the advice, if you want to ramble on more, you could email me, again it would be gratefully recieved.

the lighter the better then in terms of the bass. I know the hook God's eccleshall is a semi, but most semi basses are more accoustic in nature so are best avoided (I once got lumbered with a semi bass for an unplugged gig, took exactly 25 minutes to strip off my calouses (which were huge at the time cos I was part man part bass....only bassplayer in a class of 20 students so after all the guitarists had once and for all proved they could not play the "ecconomy guitar" as they liked to call it, I was rent-a-plank) and about another 10 to get thru to the bone......factory setup you see)

I'd be thinking Aria, Yamaha, a cheaper tanglewood (which you can pick or funk, nice basses) a non thunder westone ( Iused to have a westone spectrum, excellent bass til I fucked it up and built a fretless hybrid with it's body and a fender(ahem, by Marlin) neck). I'd avoid fender clones especially precision copies, because although they are good solid basses, they're not very gratifying for a learner, I nearly shat when I played bass with a thinner neck and nice action. And as Wasim said, they're a bit short on frets (not to mention the higher ones are a bitch to get at). Fender Jazz and musicman (Hooky has a mucicman in his collection, looks like a precision with a round scratchplate) copies are MUCH better but harder to find. Ibanez are good too but look a bit shit and 80's (says the man with an aria with a pointy heavy metal headstock), they also ALWAS seem to cost more than they should.

Avoid rickenbackers, avoid rickenbacker copies by a wider margin, they'll give you a curved spine and sore hands.

I'd advise taking a look on ebay with your intended budget in mind and just seein what's about. if anything takes your eye, ask here and someone will know about it. Myself I've been through 2 P-bass clones (one with a jazz pickup, that's the straight ones as opposed to the precision's usual split, middle pickup, as well) A westone spectrum A kay shortscale (wish I'd NEVER parted with that now, such awesome things for doing dub basslines cos the strings are like SO slinky) And the Aria, which I've had for 12 years and will NOT be parted with no matter how battered it is....Even tho it will cost twice as much to have it rebuilt with dog's balls hardware, than buy a new bass, that's what I still say I'll do. My only complaint with the aria is it's a bit too sensitive, I ususally play light/medium guage, and set the bass up for those. When I had no option but to put a set of heavies on it, the action was FOUL, and the ultralights on it now barely clear the frets....I could slacken the truss a 1/5 turn but I glued the access plate on to keep me ( and any sod that borrowed it) out of it, once I had it "right". The aria is also indestructable and (when strung with good quality, medium-light strings) requires tuning about as ofen as the average piano.

oh....and use a thin pick......fat picks are for guitars, when string and pick meet, one has to get out of the way sharpish or your timing will be a mess.....on a guitar it's the string....bass strings are (as you know) like battleship anchor chains, you neet a slithery pick, anything too fat and it'll be awkward to play, easy to break a string and totally impossible to play a soft(as in blatter-less) note. But hey...at 30p a touch, buy a shitload and find your weight.

and shove half a packet of skins (or less) under the bodyward side of the join

Steve, I have a cheapo bass (guitar is my bag) and was thinking about this. It makes sense but does it not affect sustain?

I'm a bit reluctant to try coz once you piss around with the truss rod there is no way back as wood aint so bendy! I reckon I could set it up using your suggestion but worried about ruining the resonance of the body.

Oh, and to Jed, dont buy a cheapo Fender copy (as Steve said) they are ridiculously top heavy so unless you strap it up like Mark Fookin King I find you always knock your can of beer all over your expensive studio equipment

Barney Army wrote:

Oh, and to Jed, dont buy a cheapo Fender copy (as Steve said) they are ridiculously top heavy so unless you strap it up like Mark Fookin King I find you always knock your can of beer all over your expensive studio equipment

I always hated that pillock, why did everyone at the time rave on about him being the bassist, crap, sling it low, play it high, that's what I say.

I'd also suggest getting yourself down to the nearest place that sells basses and trying some out. Decide what you're comfortable with, get a feel for the price-range, and then give ebay a look.

Hope your still looking at this thread, I've been out and about and have pretty much decided on a Yamaha RBX 374, had a play, even though I can't really play, sounds good to me, feels nice and light and the neck feels pretty slim.

I'd appreciate some feed back from anyone still kind enough (and bothered enough) to help.

Yup that's a cool bass. All yamaha's are well made and well(ish) set up.

you'll do fine. AND the HookGod has a Yam too.

Oh, as for loss of sustain from shimming the neck, use cardboard or, if you're REALLY freaking out about it, a bit of a simillar or softer wood. But TBH, it's an electric bass, and if it's well built enough for something like that to affect it's sustain, it's well built enough for you not to have to do it.

As I said, introduce the SLIGHT bow first, like 1/8-1/4 turn on the truss at a time, take a look down the neck and repeat. As SOON as you can see it's no longer straight, you're done. Do it with the strings on if at all possible(ie if you have a truss axxess at the neck, otherwise you'll be winding them up and down all day. Oh, and make sure you know which way slackens the truss, if you tighten it, well, let's just say the ONE place in the whole world you wont want to be is holding that bass when it's truss snaps. As for "no going back", you'd be bloody surprised man, you can take the nut off a bass truss and bring it back to battle tighness, just don't do that with strings on. remember the MAIN purpose of the trus is to transfer some of load of the strings directly to the body, missing most of the neck, it's like a pre-stressed member.

1 more thing, basses are always made of springy wood :), Lime ( or basswood) it hard but flexible. (no one has a basswood bas these days mind you, more likely a multi-ply (in which case, you have no sustain, it's an antiresonant body), or a huge heavy bit of hardwood (and that's where you get into basses designed with real resonant bodies, where interupting the contact twixed neck and body could dampen it))

PS, JED, I very much doubt you'll need to take the neck off that yam any time soon, I've played only a couple, both owned by eejits so still in shop setup, and they were fine, not perfect, not amazing, but fine. And one more tip: staying in tune with yourself is vital, BUT if you want to learn to play from records, you MUST get the bugger into concert pitch (and hope the producer didn't mess with the tape speeds on the record), buy a tuner (that program I metioned (NI guitar rig) has a tuner), or some pitch pipes.

Thanks to everyone for their help, I think my mind has been made up now, now for some leather pants, and where can I get a "kill 'em all, let god sort it out" T-shirt from. :)

I started out with a Crafter 4 string that was cheap as chips but did the job. I play a 5-string Westfield thingy now. I really should practice more.

And don't forget to use 2 trouser belts instead of a strap :)

(he must get straps made for him these days, so he can "get down")