Morrissey is a terrorist
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Yeah just been reading the current NME magazine.Here's me thinking a lot of the vitriol he was giving out to uniforms in his lyrics on The World Is Full Of Crashing Bores,was because of traffic police.NOT. Surprised he warranted his FBI/Scotland Yard file! I was more concerned with his support of the Animal Rights Militia. Violence against humans is not the answer,to reveal what goes on in these labs would be the best ammo they could possibly use.
We're slidng fast down that slippery slope to fascism when dissent becomes a crime.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Fuck you Geroge Bush.
I heard that yesterday, and I was shocked. What does the FBI have against Morrissey? Bush and Cheney are far more dangerous than him.
strangeways here he comes. NOT
dont lock him up before may 11th anyway
what a load of bollox this is 
should he get label with this for being ECCENTRIC and WIERD.
LAY OFF 
Not sure what the fuss is all about. So he was investigated, so what? It's not like he was locked up and taken away his rights. They questioned him, released him, and then he's able to complain in an article about it. Sure it was a hassle, problably not the most pleasant of things to happen, but his life is no different because of it.
JHC
68 Pontiac wrote: Not sure what the fuss is all about. So he was investigated, so what? It's not like he was locked up and taken away his rights. They questioned him, released him, and then he's able to complain in an article about it. Sure it was a hassle, problably not the most pleasant of things to happen, but his life is no different because of it.
JHC
yea but is someone trying to tarnished him if they put a headline to a thread like - MORRISSEY IS A TERRORIST
bansheeman wrote: yea but is someone trying to tarnished him if they put a headline to a thread like - MORRISSEY IS A TERRORIST
Well it's not like the Moz is in the fickle pop culture. All his fans are pretty devoted. I seriously doubt he would loose any fans over this, if anything it's publicity, and just reminds us that he's alive and kicking, and maybe to buy/listen to his music we've put on hold for awhile.
JHC
68 Pontiac wrote: Not sure what the fuss is all about.
You said you enlisted in the military to defend freedom, right? And you don't know what the fuss is about? We have a Bill of Rights in this country that guarantees us certain freedoms, including Freedom of Speech. It means you can dissent against the Government without becoming the target of a police investigation. If I had been risking mny life to "defend freedom," I would sure as hell be pissed to learn that dissenting views bring a police investigation. The outcome of the investigation is irrelevant-- it's the fact that they investigate you to begin with that's outrageous.
Comrade Shampanyov wrote:
68 Pontiac wrote: Not sure what the fuss is all about.
You said you enlisted in the military to defend freedom, right? And you don't know what the fuss is about? We have a Bill of Rights in this country that guarantees us certain freedoms, including Freedom of Speech. It means you can dissent against the Government without becoming the target of a police investigation. If I had been risking mny life to "defend freedom," I would sure as hell be pissed to learn that dissenting views bring a police investigation. The outcome of the investigation is irrelevant-- it's the fact that they investigate you to begin with that's outrageous.
Too many times I have seen another side to these type of things. Things that are printed in the paper, and things as they really happened, rarely are they the same.
Most people see the FBI as "Men in Black" figures. The type that pop out of nowhere to do what they want then leave without a trace. In truth, everything is strictly regulated, and not just left to someone's whim. There is alot of red tape to bring in someone like Morrissey, it's not as simple as people believe. That's alot of work to simply tear him down.
I reserve my opinion on the matter as we are only hearing one side of it. There isn't any FBI agent making claims or anything.
JHC
Whatever.
Honestly, you don't sound all that concerened about "freedom" to me, if police harassment of dissent doesn't raise an eyebrow with you. Ever hear of Nixon's enemies list? Or the FBI investigations of Lennon? What about the VA nurse who's being investigated for "Sedition" after writing a dissenting letter? Still waiting to hear the Government's excuse for that one?
Comrade,
I stated I am not putting in full opinion on the matter until I have ALL the info. This article is VERY one sided.
Freedom is very important to me. It is not something to be taken lightly. With that being said, there are bad people out there (keeping it vague on purpose). In order to keep freedom, there have to be protections against those who fight to destroy it. Unfortunately good guys don't wear white hats and bad guys, black.
I am not advocating to have similar occurances as we did with the fascist interveiwing of hollywood stars before and during WWII. That was wrong, has been admitted to be wrong by all officials.
Freedom does not come free. If I was questioned, released and didn't change my normal course of life for my future, it wouldn't bother me.
JHC
captain fucking hook twat wanker goes round for years preaching terrorism,in hyde park corner also i might add,and it takes until now to sort him out. yet morrissey supposedly gets pulled in for his strange,admittedly sometimes warped humour.
i now relise i am giving this thread more time and credability than it deserves 
If I was questioned because there was a legitimate reason to question me-- because there was some evidence that I may have violated some law, even if that evidence was circumstantial, fine, I don't have a problem with that.
On the other hand, if I say "I think the Government's policy on X is a bad idea," I expect, living in a free country, to have the freedom to say that without inviting a police investigation.
Comrade Shampanyov wrote:
We're slidng fast down that slippery slope to fascism when dissent becomes a crime.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Fuck you Geroge Bush.
Again, this article is one sided. There are reasons to the sedition charge, not saying that it's warranted, but she's not a complete victim here.
JHC
Comrade Shampanyov wrote: If I was questioned because there was a legitimate reason to question me-- because there was some evidence that I may have violated some law, even if that evidence was circumstantial, fine, I don't have a problem with that.
On the other hand, if I say "I think the Government's policy on X is a bad idea," I expect, living in a free country, to have the freedom to say that without inviting a police investigation.
But that all depends on HOW you say it. That evokes a grey scale, and grey scales are different to different people during different circumstances.
JHC
The only limits on free speech are time, place, and manner restrictions, and illegality. So, for example, a time, place, and manner restriction could get you arrested if you shout "fire" in a movie theater. And saying something like "I am going to kill the leader of country X" will also get you arrested. I don't have any issue with those, with the exception that I do object to situations where time, place, and manner is abused to suppress dissent (for example, when protesting is "illegal" except in a government-designated "free speech area.").
I do take issue with the notion that one can say "I disagree with the Government" in a way that legitimately invites police surveillance. In other words, if Morrissey says "Bush is wrong" or "Bush is a wanker" or "Bush is a terrorist" or whatever it is he said-- I don't remember offhand what the exact words were-- there's no way on Earth that can be construed as violating any sort of law in this country. And when a VA nurse writes a letter that says "The Government is wrong", there's no way that can legitimately be construed as "sedition" (advocating the overthrow of the Government).
This country is on the slippery slope to fascism when saying you disagree with Government policies-- even if you say it by calling the President a wanker-- brings a police investigation.
The only limits on free speech are time, place, and manner restrictions, and illegality
Actually, maybe you already mentioned it, is it a proper forum. You forgot about drawing a cartoon of Mohamed or Allah with a bomb.
But I agree with Comrad that disagreement with with the government is not a crime. A free and open society needs debate to remain healthy. This is not the Vatican or Hitler's Germany or Saudi Arabia. Was not it John Stuart Mill that said that truth is always strengthed with its collision with error? Mo was victim of a shake down for what he said. He should be thankful it was not Janet Reno or the ATF at Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Comrade, First the Moz issue and the VA nurse are two different issues. As for Moz, again, I have no real opinion as I don't know the full story.
As for the VA nurse, there is a difference in her position of employment. Before jumping in the defensive please hear me out. It's not that an individual woman made the statements, it is that a VA employee made the statements. With such a government position, she knowingly agrees when being employed that personal feelings in politics are not to be made to the press.
Why?
Let's put it this way. A VA nurse will be dealing with a very ugly side of war. No one enjoys seeing these things. It puts a stress on people that is hard to imagine. Also, because she treats injured soldiers does not make her an authority on the Iraq occupation. However, when the press creates an article the spin puts high importance of a goverment employee as an "authority".
Another thing to take in account is that many government positions must adhere to the UCMJ, articles of law that we have to abide by. It is slightly different laws, but easier and more clear cut than civilian law. There isn't grey area in the law of the UCMJ like in civilian law. So her typing the statement does violate the UCMJ article, and she is well aware of this BEFORE she wrote the article. Thatis the whole reason I said she is not a complete victim.
JHC
Well, I will agree with you that I don't have all of the facts, namely, that I'm not sure what the law requires of a VA nurse, and whether what the nurse did violated the law in some way that amounts to sedition. I'll see what I can dig up, but not tonight.
an interesting age we live in. question, do all these new anti-terrorism laws actually remove the liberties, they are supposedly protecting?
It's like fucking for virginity this war on terrorism is. Should have just leveled Iraq and gone home for cocktales instead of fighting politically correctly. Gonna be one bad ass civil war when the US withdraws. Praise Allah that most Islamic nations hate Iran. Please my our enemy's enemy not be their friend in hating the West. I hope Bush is right that the US can get Iraq on its feet quickly. They are in for some massive internal blows.
The day the U.S. and U.K. pull out is the day Iraq begins to break apart. What will emerge is the inevitable-- three separate states. We could save a lot of bloodshed if we would just let it happen peacefully now. But no, we'll go on with our conceit that Iraq is a nation, and a lot of people will die as a result of that conceit.
good debate going on here..at the end of the day some people are a threat to our country.if you invited someone to come and live at your home and then they openly (even if only verbally) supported a group of people who wanted to hurt your family,you would kick them out instantly.
i will fight them on the beaches of lancashire and also
i have a fucking metal spade in my kitchen and am willing to use it
just shows u how democratic both of the countries are really becoming, you cant even speak out properly
bansheeman wrote: good debate going on here..at the end of the day some people are a threat to our country.if you invited someone to come and live at your home and then they openly (even if only verbally) supported a group of people who wanted to hurt your family,you would kick them out instantly. i will fight them on the beaches of lancashire and also i have a fucking metal spade in my kitchen and am willing to use it
Grant,have you got a patio mate?
monty wrote:
bansheeman wrote: good debate going on here..at the end of the day some people are a threat to our country.if you invited someone to come and live at your home and then they openly (even if only verbally) supported a group of people who wanted to hurt your family,you would kick them out instantly. i will fight them on the beaches of lancashire and also i have a fucking metal spade in my kitchen and am willing to use it
Grant,have you got a patio mate?
i dont go out there anymore because people were always getting under my feet
Comrade Shampanyov wrote: Well, I will agree with you that I don't have all of the facts, namely, that I'm not sure what the law requires of a VA nurse, and whether what the nurse did violated the law in some way that amounts to sedition. I'll see what I can dig up, but not tonight.
Comrade,
Here is the article on sedition:
ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION (a) Any person subject to this chapter who-- (1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny; (2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition; (3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition. (b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court- martial may direct
Now the UCMJ is primarily setup for the military, however many goverment positions use this as well. . .mainly government leadership positions (senators, the president, etc.), and positions that are in direct support of the military, which the VA nurse falls under.
Part 2 is how she violated Article 94.
JHC
Burt Reynolds wrote: Ooh.. is this the new Middle Eastern thread?.. nice disguise, I nearly missed it..*l*
Tristan Jayol is a middle eastern terrorist. And French. Figures, don't it?
Quite possibly.
He might just stretch to 'croissant throwing' at a Parisian cafe.
Other than that, the terms 'French', 'Yemeni' and 'Terrorism' dont add up.
Mind you, Charles de Gaulle used to drink in my local. Silly fecker got 'exiled' to my town during WW2. He was apparently upset that absinthe was banned in the UK at the time.
Poor chap.
NOOLers, can we stop the Iraq debate and move on? Note that the thread wasn't about Iraq in the first place. We know there is no way Moz is a terrorist after all. Sheesh!
Hey hey..
I don't see any Iraq posting going on.
I still want to know why bansheeman has a spade in the kitchen...
Burt Reynolds wrote: Ooh.. is this the new Middle Eastern thread?.. nice disguise, I nearly missed it..*l*
Was that directed at me? My posts had nothing to do with it and a bit confused on how it was seen as such. I was merely talking about the article Comrade put up earlier, which was on subject???? Please explain, I'm confused.
JHC
'Cause this debate has been going on too long, too long-winded? What other reason do I have? Do you want this debate go on forever? Geez, I'm not stupid to believe that Moza is a terrorist...
Funny.... didnt see you comment on the thread before.
Do you find something upsetting about the thread title?
*points to brown leather couch*
Threads that go on too long die a natural death, no moderator intervention needed. When you're tired of a thread, you just stop reading it, that's all.
Burt Reynolds wrote: Funny.... didnt see you comment on the thread before.
Do you find something upsetting about the thread title?
*points to brown leather couch*
Yeah, I read the comment a couple of days ago. By the way, I clicked on the thread when it first came up, because it GOT MY ATTENTION. I usually come back to threads I find interesting, and for this thread, I'm surprised at what it has turned into.
About the reason why I asked a mod to put a lock on it: One time I put a thread on an ad mentioning IC's death. oldmonkey locked it after declaring the ad as a poor publicity stunt.
cozmonite61 wrote:
Burt Reynolds wrote: Funny.... didnt see you comment on the thread before.
Do you find something upsetting about the thread title?
*points to brown leather couch*
Yeah, I read the comment a couple of days ago.
Hmmm... I can only guess you must be a devoted Moz fan. Oh well. We all have our crosses to bear.
Wrong, Burt. I have never heard a Moz record. :D And do you think I would be a devoted fan if I got Barney's Angels Badges?
Comrade Shampanyov wrote:
We're slidng fast down that slippery slope to fascism when dissent becomes a crime.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Fuck you Geroge Bush.
It's happening close to home here, Comrade, dunno if you've seen what happened to a lady in Eugene who happened to say NO out loud when D. Cheney had made a statement that GB had made America safer.
[darkgreen]Green[/darkgreen] wrote:
Comrade Shampanyov wrote:
We're slidng fast down that slippery slope to fascism when dissent becomes a crime.
Oh yeah, one more thing: Fuck you Geroge Bush.
It's happening close to home here, Comrade, dunno if you've seen what happened to a lady in Eugene who happened to say NO out loud when D. Cheney had made a statement that GB had made America safer.
Thanks Green I hadn't seen that.
So, Shout "Four More Years" all you want, no problem. Shout "No," And you're hauled off the premises and prosecuted. No free speech allowed outside the "Free speech zone" and all that.
And then there's this little gem: Regan is preoccupied with another threat to free speech: a proposed new provision of the PATRIOT Act, which Congress will consider for re-authorization on March 10. Section 602 would make protesting or holding a protest sign at any "national security event" a felony. If that provision were applied to Patterson, her "no" would become a federal crime, punishable by up to a year in prison
Is this the "freedom" American soldiers are dieing for?
What I hate is the shake down at the airport. My grey haired pale white woman of 80+ years gets harassed by the TSA. Excuse me, the WTC was not blown up by an old white woman driving a car far too large for her vision.
Patriot Act needs to go. Harass the visitors not the locals.
twist wrote: What I hate is the shake down at the airport. My grey haired pale white woman of 80+ years gets harassed by the TSA. Excuse me, the WTC was not blown up by an old white woman driving a car far too large for her vision.
Patriot Act needs to go. Harass the visitors not the locals.
Agree, but then there are alot of people out there that scream for equality, and means for each visitor questioned, a local has to be as well to "balance the books". Some of this stuff is silly. Political correctness stops us from being able to call a duck: a duck.
JHC
twist wrote: As I always say "Don't like the stereotype?? Stop living it."
Love it!!!
You know I can't help but snicker everytime I see someone livin up to the stereotypes out there.
JHC
